From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 00:21:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 00:34:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 Message-ID: <19e442c970b8ed7f1ffdf109c7b79840@antiochians.org> Reprinted from AntiRecord article dated 7.28.07: Legal Fund Needs To Be Set Up By "Key Stakeholders"...Presently (July 28, 07) NO Legal Fund Is Set Up/ Advocated By Alumni Assn. Sat, 2007-07-28 10:00 ? David Allen Hello from Yazz Allen '66! (Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com) The Antioch College Alumni Assn. which claims to "be the voice" of Antioch alumni opposing the Antioch College closedown decision has NOT set up a legal fund, nor advocated legal action in any public policy or fund raising statement it has issued, in spite of the fact key AU BOT voices state the closedown decision will NOT be reversed voluntarily by the AU BOT. The only legal fund set up to oppose the Antioch University Board Of Trustees closedown decision mandating Antioch College, Ohio, be closed down in July 2008, is the fund set up by the faculty group opposing the closedown. The Antioch College Alumni Association has taken NO steps to set up a legal fund, nor do any of the several boilerplate statements it issues on mainstream Antioch interest media sites, including WWW.Antiochians.Org, include even slight reference to the need for legal action and the funding of legal action as a means for keeping the College open without interuption past July 2008. No money at all gathered for the "Antioch Revival Fund" is earmarked or mandated for legal action or expenses. Meanwhile, the Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman and also the AU Vice-Chancellor have issued separate, recent public statements asserting firmly that the decision to close down Antioch College in July 2008 will NOT be reversed. The need for legal action is clear. A good four part legal strategy has been proposed (Injunction, Receivership, Resignations, Restructuring), but it has to be paid for. What are GROUNDS for injunctions? What is the legal history of this potential weapon which might keep Antioch College open without interuption? What are precedents and successs stories of those who have tried it, and got approval for injunctions? Where have injuctions been used to stop higher education Boards of Trustees (as was the recent case with Adelphi University in New York)? Preparation and action....legal action....will cost money. The so-called "mainstream voice of opposition to the Antioch U. BOT closedown of Antioch College" is currently the Antioch College Alumni Association. The highest profile, most publicized Antioch College interest/watchdog website is WWW.Antiochians.Org which supporters of the effort to keep Antioch College open without interuption are exhorted to visit often. Yet............NOT A SINGLE WORD about legal action appears in boilerplate or policiy statements from the Antioch College Alumni Association when people seek to know "what they can do" to keep Antioch College open without interuption. NO LEGAL FUND has been set up separate from the self-interested and narrowly defined Antioch College faculty interest legal fund, primarily concerned with continuing employment for a small number of teachers at Antioch College (the faulty losing jobs at Antioch College may reach a separate, limited agreement with the Antioch U. BOT and cease and/or limit legal efforts to stop the closedown...a SEPARATE Legal Fund is needed from that set up by the faculty to benefit themselves...Antioch alumni should sympathize with and support Antioch College faculty, but should NOT depend on faculty legal efforts to keep the college open, because these efforts may be narrowly focussed to benefit the faculty only). Legal action will not and cannot take place unless it is funded, and unless already raised money to save Antioch College is diverted in large amounts to meet legal expense needs. The "powers that be" running the Antioch U. BOT care nothing about the current fund raising efforts, which they obviously plan to dismiss and refuse, just as the Antioch Independence Fund money was dismissed and refused years ago. The Fund Raising Effort back than came to nothing. That will happen again UNLESS funds are diverted and raised for legal action, and a separate legal fund is set up. This must be done. There is an unmet need for discussion about how to do it, and also for emphatic, repeated statements of the need for legal funding sponsored by the Antioch Alumni Association and other "key stateholders" who claim to be the majority voice of those who seek Antioch College remain open without interuption. Anyone who truly cares for Antioch College willl support and advance the need for legal funding and action to oppose a decision Antioch U. BOT leaders stated they will not reverse....unless the AU BOT is forced to....legally. Bookmark/Search this post with: * Delicious * Reddit * Magnoliacom * Newsvine * Furl * Google * Yahoo * Technorati * Icerocket * Out Side the Bubble * Alumni * Alumni Assn. leaders * Antioch Alumni Assn. * Antiochians.Org * keep Antioch open * Legal fund * Add new comment * Flag as offensive * flag this Comments Comment viewing options Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes. Sun, 2007-07-29 18:36 ? David Allen New Should Effort To Engage In Legal Action/ Raise Legal Funds Wait? July 29, 07 Ellen Borgeren '72 emailed me the following messages regarding the subject of legal funding and legal action to oppose the Antioch University Board Of Trustees' closedown decision, set to shut down Antioch College next July 2008. I replied to both, and wish to share the exchanged messages with others visiting the WWW.AntiRecord.Org website: ----------- July 29, 2007 >From Ellen Borgersen '72 To Yazz Allen '66 Dear Yazz, The College Revival Fund does not need an earmarked fund to pay for legal services when the time comes for that. The Legal Team is considering all legal options open to the Alumni/ae Association and to individual alums. We are making inquiries and may retain outside counsel. The consensus on the Exec C'tee is that we should hold off on filing suit at least until after the August 25-26 UBoT meeting in Cincinnati. In the meantime, we are getting as much info out of Art Zucker and College files as we can during this period of "constructive cooperation." Yours in struggle, Ellen Borgersen, '72 ------------------------- July 29, 07 Hi Ellen '72! Thank you for your communication. I'm grateful for your message and the clarification it contained. As I've written in some detail on the WWW.AntiRecord.Org Antioch College interest / watchdog website (est. 1998..the oldest one), both Mr. Zucker '55, Chairman of the AU BOT and also Mrs. LaPierre, Vice Chancellor of Antioch U. (HQed in Seattle WA USA) have stated recently in writing that reversal of the July 2008 closedown decision will not occur, is not an option the BOT and top AU leadership will consider. Only legal action will force a change in these firmly and repeatedly stated decisions. The Aug. 25 meeting is being framed by Mr. Zucker '55 (in his recent "Letter To The Community" communication) as a further opportunity for the BOT to explain (and by implication sell) its closedown decision, and justify it. Negotiation or compromise is not planned or offered. It is well to remember that the July 2008 closedown date is the end of a process ALREADY BEGUN, already in motion. Great damage has already been done. The Antioch U. BOT used "Pearl Harbor" tactics in unleashing its exceedingly damaging decision to close down Antioch College completely by July 2008. No advance notice or warning. This was as intentional as it was (and is) reprehensible. The BOT has a clear closedown agenda, and rightly realizes that the more time passes, the less likely the decision will be challenged effectively or changed. They are playing for time. They realize the initial surge of opposition to the closedown decision will lose momentum and power the more time drags one. They are glad of this. Respectfully, I would assert it's time to get our ducks lined up NOW, and that means legal research and other legal work to consider scenarios which can be used (and shouldn't be used) in the near future. Waiting another month until Aug. 25 plays into the hands of factions committed to closing Antioch College down in July 2008 completely. The time to commit to legal action and start legal planning (and pay for it) is now. Mr. Zucker's June 22, 07 speech in Ohio was emphatically legalistic and this was not accidental. He had done his legal homework, probably with paid counsel, and was showing that fact off. He expected and expects to be challenged legally, and for good reason. He and the Antioch U. BOT are legally vulnerable. Mr. Zucker and his minions moving to close Antioch College down have not been accommodating or flexible. They are not "nice guys," and should not be treated as if they were. Their behavior and tactics leading into the June 2007 crisis have been rough, and they should be treated the way they have treated those of us who are stakeholders part of the worldwide community of Antiochians. Time is critical. No progress at all in obtaining the smallest evidence a reversal of the July 2008 closedown decision has been made. None. Money raising not connected with or dedicated to legal action means nothing to the Antioch U. BOT and will be treated with the same contempt and dismissal the Antioch Independence Fund was treated not so long ago by the Antioch U. BOT. Immediate commitment to legal action fund raising, public exhortations for legal funding contributions, and also immediate expenditure of funds to inquire into legal action strategy and tactics must commence......now. Not a month from now. Resspectfully, and in solidarity, Yazz Allen '66 ------------------------------- July 29, 07 >From Ellen Borgersen '72 to Yazz Allen '66 Yazz, We know they're playing us for time, have no intention of negotiating with us, and think we are stupid and will tire and go away. I personally cannot wait to see the looks on their faces when they realize they are facing a juggernaut. Which they are. Regards, Ellen --------------------------------------- July 29, 07 Hi Ellen! Thanks for your speedy reply to my earlier email message to you. I dunno. The bad guys don't seem scared, from what I can see. If they are, I'd like to see or learn of evidence that's true. They are a bunch of cool customers and strategists, and they have friends and supporters who will claim to be "key stakeholders" part of the Antioch Alumni Community. John Feinberg '70, outgoing Antioch Alumni Assn. chairman and moderator of the June 22, 07 Antioch Reunion Closedown Speech meeting is clearly in their pocket, and I think it's likely others on the Alumni Assn. board also are. I would guess Mr. Zucker '55 and his close allies take heart in what they see on the Antioch College alumni chatline and the WWW.Antiochians.Org site......not a single thing which threatens them or their wrong decision to close down Antioch College in July 2008, as announced. I hope I'm wrong, but at present, I'm not optimistic about where things are going presently. The bad guys seem to me to be winning. Best, and always in solidarity, Yazz '66 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 00:30:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 00:43:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <19e442c970b8ed7f1ffdf109c7b79840@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> >NO LEGAL FUND has been set up separate from the self-interested and narrowly defined Antioch College faculty interest legal fund, primarily concerned with continuing employment for a small number of teachers at Antioch College (the faulty losing jobs at Antioch College may reach a separate, limited agreement with the Antioch U. BOT and cease and/or limit legal efforts to stop the closedown... Well, that part right there is baseless, biased and bullshit. Wonder if Yazz can support that statement even a little bit? Alan Benard From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 00:40:40 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Matthew Baya (matt@baya.net)) Date: Wed Aug 1 00:53:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> Message-ID: For the Record - "Yazz Allen"is different than '"Yazz Atlas". This gets doubly confusing since the website, http://antirecord.org, that is referenced in this post is one run by Yazz Atlas but consists of many posts from "Yazz Allen". Just thought I'd point this out so you can point your questions to the appropriate Yazz. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 00:46:00 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 00:59:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1d4adcc454359011049175dd873be129@antiochians.org> >Just thought I'd point this out so you can point your questions to the appropriate Yazz. Edited for the board's sake and questions put directly to Mr. Allen at antirecord. -A- From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 00:49:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 1 01:02:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <19e442c970b8ed7f1ffdf109c7b79840@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <2ed5ac5a711486299edd31cf070b7f61@www.antiochians.org> NO LEGAL FUND has been set up separate from the self-interested and narrowly defined Antioch College faculty interest legal fund, primarily concerned with continuing employment for a small number of teachers at Antioch College (the faulty losing jobs at Antioch College may reach a separate, limited agreement with the Antioch U. BOT and cease and/or limit legal efforts to stop the closedown...a SEPARATE Legal Fund is needed from that set up by the faculty to benefit themselves...Antioch alumni should sympathize with and support Antioch College faculty, but should NOT depend on faculty legal efforts to keep the college open, because these efforts may be narrowly focussed to benefit the faculty only). Yazz, Such a narrow focus is not at all what the faculty is up to. The faculty is seeking legal avenues to stop the closing of the College. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 00:56:42 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Matthew Baya (matt@baya.net)) Date: Wed Aug 1 01:09:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> Message-ID: The thing that bugs me about this post is that 'Yazz' Allen is posting the contents of private e-mails between him and Ellen B. to a public forum (in his case he was posting them on antirecord.org but someone copied his entire post over here). It's common netiquette to not do this without permission or at least informing the author that you intend to do this. If I were Ellen I wouldn't respond to 'Yazz' via e-mail at all, or at least just assume that he's going to put publishing what you write so just include the bare minimum, he doesn't deserve the time and respect of a personal reply since he clearly doesn't respect the author's rights. My 2 cents -Matt '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 01:06:44 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 01:19:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The thing that bugs me about this post is that 'Yazz' Allen is posting the contents of private e-mails between him and Ellen B. to a public forum (in his case he was posting them on antirecord.org but someone copied his entire post over here). It's common netiquette to not do this without permission or at least informing the author that you intend to do this. If I were Ellen I wouldn't respond to 'Yazz' via e-mail at all, or at least just assume that he's going to put publishing what you write so just include the bare minimum, he doesn't deserve the time and respect of a personal reply since he clearly doesn't respect the author's rights. > >My 2 cents > > >-Matt '92 As I have pointed out, reproducing someone's private correspondence to you without the author's permission is a felony in California, where celebrities seem to have to worry about the intellectual property rights they have to thank-you notes and letters to grandma. But it is impolite at the least, as I have pointed out before. Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 04:45:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (PJ (planetjunque@sbcglobal.net)) Date: Wed Aug 1 04:59:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] All Your Campus Are Belong To Us In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72f86f71ca8f8812dce84774ae109928@antiochians.org> Katherine Anne Stansbury, in her post about corporate raids, also had these: Katherine Anne Stansbury in her post about corporate raid: At the Q & A at the Antioch Reunion, two weeks after the announcement, Toni Murdock stated that she has ?been in conversation with companies that ?allow? colleges to ?leverage the assets and the resources that they have; most of that is in the area of land,? and that she?d been contacted by 5 developers since the announcement.
 'The Gateway Report, commissioned by the University Leadership Council to justify the closure of the College, states on page two:

?As a result of this analysis, Central Administration is considering having the College declare financial exigency this summer, and suspending operations at the end of the next school year. They would then investigate opportunities for the College to evolve into a financially viable operation. This investigation would include the possibility of developing an urban village concept at the current site of the Antioch College campus which would in turn form the basis for a new educational enterprise.?

and on page six:

?During the period of suspension management would have the opportunity to develop new entrepreneurial approaches to providing an Antioch College experience. For example, a developer might emerge with the concept of developing a new urban village on the Antioch College site. A new higher education institution, a ?reinvented Antioch? could be the center point of such a new town development.?
 'A Summary Of The Recommendations By University Leadership For The Suspension and Re-opening Of Antioch College states on page one:

?This is a vision to create a lifelong learning center where graduates and professionals can come to enhance their careers and lives. This will require non-profit private partnerships and might include the following: increased density of the current campus and opening up remaining areas to build affordable faculty and retiree housing...?
 
 From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 10:01:47 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 10:14:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Seattle Chapter? In-Reply-To: <618747.539.qm@web59110.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <618747.539.qm@web59110.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There is a great group of folks in seattle. Two alumni board members as well who are true treasures. Try contacting Bradley Wilburn '84 wilburn22701@earthlink.net or Tim Klass '71 tdklass@hotmail.com Duffy Seattle is beautiful...Antioch Seattle is in Belltown near the space needle is okay From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 10:03:10 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 10:15:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: <2546b63480f555dcf586566d3fa76b69@antiochians.org> References: <2546b63480f555dcf586566d3fa76b69@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Ah John Hevelin...here is some Antioch memorabilia connected to your Night of the Living Dead. The hero in the movie..Duane Jones...was an Antioch Theater professor here in the mid seventies. Duffy From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 10:14:17 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 10:27:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> References: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Yazz CUdd...how can you write all that you do and how you do when you are really fairly far removed? This is third hand back seat driving and Tuesday quarterbacking ... To use in the word self-interest seems inflammatory and not helpful. The most common thread among many of our groups is that the College is like a critical patient....and is on the table......may need some transplants or some amputation...everything folks are trying is to keep the patient from being lowered into the ground... especially while it is still breathing...and it s irregular heart is still beating. If you can't be a little less negatively opionated we are all gonna just tune you out. I would suggest a rewrite...you CAN do better than that. Cmon now....that is insensitive and over opinionated...you destroy your own credibility Duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 10:20:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 10:33:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yazz Allen has been allowing me to repost his articles from the Antirecord here, so I didn't realize there was a problem, I apologize. I'll remove the post if you all would like. Please let me know and I will do so. That's great the faculty legal fund has a broad focus, Bob, I'm glad of it. In fact, I donated to it and plan to do so again. Here's the thing. No one has responded to the focus of Yazz's article. Do people here feel the Alumni Board has a strong plan? Do you feel they understand the needs for a strong and timely action? Do you feel they are being inclusive? What about transparent? Again I repeat my call for a coordinator. And I continue to see that the loudest and most aggressive voices are choosing our course. With the amazing group of alumni that we have, and with our background in process and collaborative approaches, this is a disappointment to me. A paid coordinator to elicit ideas, collaboration, have a model of transparency in our joint effort, and a voiced respect and appreciation for even those whose ideas are poor or ignorant... this is critical to our success. Jane Slater Ashland, OR Class of '80 From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 10:43:34 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 10:56:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello there Jane Slater... have you talked with Nancy Crow or Ina Frank the prez and vice prez of alumni board? here are their emails ncrow@penberg.com and inafrank@adelphia.net if you don't hear from them right away they are probably crazy busy. Duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 11:23:13 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 11:36:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A couple of things. Jane, you should probably take down the private correspondence until you've gotten Ellen's OK to leave it up. This is just my opinion, but that's what I'd do. Secondly, folks: the committees are posting their notes, we are updating on the page if not the forum, we have the new forum of "Ask an Alumni Board Member," and everyone on the Alumni Board is swamped with at least 500+ emails a day. I can only imagine what the Exec. Committee gets--prob. 1000+ a day. As for legal, the FAQ that went up says: Q: What's going on with possible legal action taken by the Alumni Board? A: The College Revival Fund does not need an earmarked fund to pay for legal services when the time comes for that. The Legal Team is considering all legal options open to the Alumni/ae Association and to individual alums. We are making inquiries and may retain outside counsel. Also Athena posted in the forum "July Updates from the Alumni Board." Of note: I know that lots of alums, not just AB members, are working within the committees to try and channel their expertise. There's a lot of work to do. Perhaps, in order to free up more AB time to answer questions, queries and fend off outright trolls, people could volunteer their expertise to these committees. There are contacts and lists on the sidebar at www.antiochians.org. --Christian '94 Alumni Board Member From matt at baya.net Wed Aug 1 11:41:04 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Wed Aug 1 11:48:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 1, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com) wrote: > Yazz Allen has been allowing me to repost his articles from the > Antirecord here, so I didn't realize there was a problem, I > apologize. I'll remove the post if you all would like. Please let > me know and I will do so. Reposting his article isn't a problem per se though if he's not here reading the comments then it's rather annoying that he gets to remotely drop these bombs and then not hear our responses. I would suggest that, with Yazz's permission, you remove the parts of his post where he posted Ellen's e-mail (or he should at least get her permission to post them). I also think that if he wants to post here he should come do it himself, and be ready to read the responses to his assumptions. I know I'm going to regret saying that since in the past he'd driven me nuts with his posts. To be honest, I put Yazz (again Yazz Allen, not Atlas) on my spam filter back in the previous incarnation of Alumni chat because he would post assumptions and provocative statements and then repeat those same things even after being presented with data to show his logic & facts were flawed. > That's great the faculty legal fund has a broad focus, Bob, I'm > glad of it. In fact, I donated to it and plan to do so again. > > Here's the thing. No one has responded to the focus of Yazz's article. This has been discussed in other forums in a much more productive manner than Yazz's sledgehammer approach above and if he had been reading (as in reading the words and actually thinking about their contents instead of selectively picking out pieces that reflected his assumptions) the forums he would have known these answers. The alumni board is doing the best they can to adjust to the circumstances, this is a crazy time and everyone is busy with real life not to mention a dozen Antioch related projects. > Do people here feel the Alumni Board has a strong plan? I happen to know they do have a very nice plan, but I don't know when it's going to be released to the public for feedback. I think they are trying to get the rough edges smoothed out before they seek input. If you want to know more, trying talking with them directly, they are good folks. You might want to mention that you AREN'T going to post their e-mails to a public forum since frankly, after Yazz's disrespectful actions in his post, I'd be surprised if they say more than 'suggestion noted and logged' to anyone outside people they know and trust. > Do you feel they understand the needs for a strong and timely action? Yes, I think they are quite clear about the timeline involved. Any conversation with them makes this very apparent. > Do you feel they are being inclusive? I personally think they could do better but I know they are trying very hard. Also my opinion on how to communicate and deal with a crisis like this isn't based on any direct experience or theory so it's quite possibly off in left field (most of my opinions are :) ) If you look around in various forums and the website you'll see they've been posting notes, responses to questions, and have been emailing folks all over the place. I realize some of the need for privacy here since we are 'negotiating' with a very powerful entity that has their own agenda & plans, as well as deep pockets for marketing campaigns and lawyers. > What about transparent? Again I agree I wish things were more transparent too. I also realize that those involved are really doing their best and we're all on the same side here. > Again I repeat my call for a coordinator. And I continue to see > that the loudest and most aggressive voices are choosing our > course. With the amazing group of alumni that we have, and with our > background in process and collaborative approaches, this is a > disappointment to me. > > A paid coordinator to elicit ideas, collaboration, have a model of > transparency in our joint effort, and a voiced respect and > appreciation for even those whose ideas are poor or ignorant... > this is critical to our success. \ I agree on this point too. I think having someone just to keep the information flowing to the right people and coordinating efforts is important. Not someone in charge, just a 'Traffic Manager' per se. I know I'm getting burnt out on things and I suspect I'm not alone. I think part of the problem here is there are so many of us on so many fronts that it's hard to know what others are doing or where our efforts would be best placed. -Matt From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 11:52:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (erik (36invisible@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 12:05:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <457820ccf5050b0c6f8410bc0a4863b2@antiochians.org> >oh... and that car had tried to run me down... I somesaulted to there. Now I have the Six Million Dollar Man sound stuck in my head. Thanks for that. e ps. It's really too bad we can't see the look on that driver's face. Tell your camera man to do better next time! ;) From sjr5 at nyu.edu Wed Aug 1 11:52:16 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Wed Aug 1 12:06:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] San Diego alums? In-Reply-To: References: <618747.539.qm@web59110.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm going to be in San Diego for a week starting Friday, August 3. Are there any alums there I could be in touch with while I'm out there? -- Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College, '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.neww.org.pl http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting ******************* "If you do not let the tie run come to the plate, you can never lose." --Mark Harris, in one of the Southpaw novels From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 12:13:31 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 12:26:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] San Diego alums? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Two SoCal Alum Board members live near LA..is that close enough? Ina Frank and Kristen Pett. Duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 12:44:12 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 12:57:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks all for your feedback. I took down Yazz's post which began this thread. I apologize for putting it up in the first place. Jane Slater Class of '80 Ashland, OR From jdavid at coldren.net Wed Aug 1 13:03:16 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:17:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> Duffy, This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. The patient is a death's door and may be brain dead, the person with legal authority says "pull the plug", and there is a chorus of others saying "Save Terry." Raising money. Trying to get judicial relief. And Bob playing the part of Tom DeLay. We all know what happened in the end. J. David Coldren '65 This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete them from your system. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Duffy Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:14 AM To: Alumni Chat List Cc: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 Yazz CUdd...how can you write all that you do and how you do when you are really fairly far removed? This is third hand back seat driving and Tuesday quarterbacking ... To use in the word self-interest seems inflammatory and not helpful. The most common thread among many of our groups is that the College is like a critical patient....and is on the table......may need some transplants or some amputation...everything folks are trying is to keep the patient from being lowered into the ground... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 13:15:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:28:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> Message-ID: >Duffy, > >This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. >The patient is a death's door and may be brain dead, the person with legal >authority says "pull the plug", and there is a chorus of others saying "Save >Terry." Raising money. Trying to get judicial relief. And Bob playing the >part of Tom DeLay. > >We all know what happened in the end. > > >J. David Coldren '65 Love the analogy. Except that Terry Schaivo had a heart attack in her home, and Antioch College was murdered by starvation and a botched curriculum transplant. Alan Benard, '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 13:16:16 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:29:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> Message-ID: This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. The patient is a death's door and may be brain dead, the person with legal authority says "pull the plug", and there is a chorus of others saying "Save Terry." Raising money. Trying to get judicial relief. And Bob playing the part of Tom DeLay. We all know what happened in the end. J. David Coldren '65 That comparison is heartless and rather revolting. First of all LIVE and BRIGHT students have still been graduating from Antioch. Not Schiavo-like there. Second of all, the analogy is nasty and rude, as the metaphor doesn't carry at all, and is insulting besides. Robin '91 From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Wed Aug 1 13:18:41 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:31:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 Message-ID: <245772.12447.qm@web53409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Um, did I miss the part where we learned that Terry Schaivo's doctors all had long histories of gross medical malpractice? And the part where Terry Schaivo sat bolt upright in bed, in front of a bank of rolling cameras, and pleaded: "I'm not sick at all! I just came in for a nose job. Please don't let them kill me!" >This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 13:19:09 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:31:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> References: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> <, > <,> <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> Message-ID: J. David Coldren, if I close my eyes I can remember you fairly well. Hopefully in the end there will be a victory for.....everyone..... Rebuilding the College is part of it and definitely rebuilding everyone's trust. That big old university has been like a bad lover..shall we all sing "your cheatin' heart?" A complicated mess...hopefully everyone will work on a part of that mess. Duffy From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 13:21:30 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:34:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: <2499c406805bc783662ba4e696e91290@antiochians.org> <, > < > <,> < > <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> <,> Message-ID: about that bad lover meataphor..I used to tease Dan Kaplan, former BOT chair.. I wouold say...hey "I'm jealous! I've found out that you've been seeing other campuses!" Duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 13:22:23 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:35:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> Message-ID: jdc, you're entitled to your opinion, but please bear in mind that it's just that--your opinion. Also the resolution of the alumni association at Reunion 2007, passed UNANIMOUSLY, states, in part: 1. The Antioch College Alumni are committed to the uninterrupted continuation of Antioch College as an institution of higher education with a tenured faculty. Sorry you disagree, but that train is still moving ahead. You've made your wishes abundantly clear. Thank you for your time. Good afternoon. Christian '94 Alumni Board member >Duffy, > >This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. >The patient is a death's door and may be brain dead, the person with legal >authority says "pull the plug", and there is a chorus of others saying "Save >Terry." Raising money. Trying to get judicial relief. And Bob playing the >part of Tom DeLay. > >We all know what happened in the end. > > >J. David Coldren '65 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 13:24:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:38:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3c41e2c92bd3f9d1a9443e6eab8e83c0@antiochians.org> >J. David Coldren, if I close my eyes I can remember you fairly well. > >Hopefully in the end there will be a victory for.....everyone..... > >Rebuilding the College is part of it and definitely rebuilding everyone's >trust. > >That big old university has been like a bad lover..shall we all sing "your >cheatin' heart?" > >A complicated mess...hopefully everyone will work on a part of that mess. > >Duffy Duffy, you certainly have all the class and charm I lack. I tip my hat. Alan Benard From marklp2 at comcast.net Wed Aug 1 13:27:04 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:40:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Community Solutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00f801c7d461$2e85b7e0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> FYI, But no official relationship to the college. Mark P. '71 ________________________________________ From: Megan Quinn [mailto:megan@communitysolution.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:54 AM To: megan@communitysolution.org Subject: Register Now for the Fourth U.S. Conference on Peak Oil and Community Solutions ________________________________________ Sent by: Community Service, Inc. Reply to the sender Register Now for the Fourth U.S. Conference on Peak Oil and Community Solutions: Planning for Hard Times Fourth Annual Conference Set for October 26-28, 2007 Yellow Springs, Ohio (at Antioch College) Each year this event attracts hundreds of educators, activists, and community leaders from around the country ? including those who are making changes in their own lives. At the conference you will: ? Learn new skills and strategies for reducing your personal energy use. ? Discuss ways to help your community plan for the future. ? Hear about viable economic alternatives like sufficiency and localization. ? Discover innovative solutions for food, housing, and transportation. ? Learn the latest information on Peak Oil and climate change and how it will affect our economy and lives. ? Strategize with fellow concerned citizens at the largest gathering of the Peak Oil movement in the country. Learn how to live well using far less oil. Hear about tactics for helping your community make the transition. Keynotes: David Korten, author of The Great Turning, Richard Heinberg, author of Powerdown and The Party's Over, and Thomas Princen, author of The Logic of Sufficiency -----Original Message----- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date: 7/25/2007 2:55 PM From aadole at adelphia.net Wed Aug 1 16:30:28 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Wed Aug 1 13:48:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <19e442c970b8ed7f1ffdf109c7b79840@antiochians.org> Message-ID: On 7/31/07 9:21 PM, "Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)" wrote: > The only legal fund set up to oppose the Antioch University Board Of Trustees > closedown decision mandating Antioch College, Ohio, be closed down in July > 2008, is the fund set up by the faculty group opposing the closedown. > > Jane, Yazz, and other eagles--Has the Alum Board consulted the American Association of University Professors? AAUP President Carey Nelson is an alum, incidentally. Art Dole '46 From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 1 13:56:33 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 1 14:09:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako Message-ID: This note of correction comes from Katy Jako... she had send me this to post awhile back..but life is crazy busy..trying to work and also keep up with emails from several groups including this one. To all of you.... Katy along with Al Denman (as early as the early 70's) first had the thoughts that an Antioch College that had true autonomy (independence) would be more likely to flourish that one governed by a well meaning bunch with multiple problems in multiple places. Multitasking does not always have the best outcome. Katy was large and in charge of the AIF (Antioch Independence Fund) which had 500 donors, including ex-trustees and faculty...... So the College Revival Fund comes along 10 years later. Ah, there is nothing new under the sun, eh? only finally folks are awake since the cow is outta the barn....or buried under it. Katy would like to correct Alan Benard. He thought that 160,000 of the AIF money had gone to AU. katy says WRONG. Katy said (on 7/8/03 if anyone wants to know) that total to AU was $15,360.00 and actually went to the AU environmental institute ... Other secondary designations were the AC annual fund $8005.00 (which,btw including MY very own as well) Glen Helen $4555.00 and the Antioch Review $2800.00. Katy says "there are lots of AIF alumni on alumni-chat and i would HATE for any of them to think that $160.000 of THEIR fund enriched the parasitic University that for 30 years has sucked the life out of its "host", Antioch College." Al Denman's donations actually went to AUs Environmental institute...not AU in general. Katy is not even lurking....her brother Jack Cobb '50 may send her vignettes but my feeling is that after a long struggle with everything she is now content to watch the Oakland A s. Duffy Some days late...some dollars short Make your favorite web visit to Antiochians.org and give your time, sweat equity or moolah to help in what you perceive to be the best arenas and if you just wanna vent and be a hot mess...well...go ahead From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 14:07:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 14:20:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <227c6eda73c5fda6271d1ff1e1867ee9@antiochians.org> >Katy would like to correct Alan Benard. He thought that 160,000 of the >AIF money had gone to AU. > >katy says WRONG. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll try to figure out where I might of said such a thing and where I might have gotten that impression. If I can, I'll personally correct it. But I don't remember writing that, honestly. But if I did say that and it is wrong, I regret the error. I don't claim to know much about AIF but I do know what it intended to do, and appreciated that there was a "plan B." Alan Benard From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 14:20:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 14:34:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: <227c6eda73c5fda6271d1ff1e1867ee9@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4ef33d84df6477c887c60fd7f2a183d9@antiochians.org> >>Katy would like to correct Alan Benard. He thought that 160,000 of the >>AIF money had gone to AU. >> >>katy says WRONG. >If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll try to figure out where I might of said such a thing and where I might have gotten that impression. If I can, I'll personally correct it. But I don't remember writing that, honestly. But if I did say that and it is wrong, I regret the error. > >I don't claim to know much about AIF but I do know what it intended to do, and appreciated that there was a "plan B." > >Alan Benard Well, if someone can put this statement I allegedly made under my nose, I'll take a look at it. I used the forum Search to look for posts with "160,000" or "AIF" in them where my username exists. None of the four posts this brought up contained such a statement. Maybe we think we saw my name attached to this statement? Or maybe we want to make me look like I say things that aren't true? Or, possibly, this was written by me before this forum was created, on the old email lists? Well, have at it, dear friends, show me the goods if you have them. Alan Benard, '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 14:48:42 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 15:01:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: <65417.24.97.182.34.1185937224.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: I've heard that being president of Antioch is like being pecked to death by ducks but it could just as easily be from chickens....hence the need for poultry contributions... >>Yes please no more photos of rubber chickens. >I think that was Gerry's poultry contribution. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 14:57:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 15:10:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3ddff152686f82555207f859f627cf17@antiochians.org> Cary is Trustee Paula Triechler's husband and met with faculty during reunion. It's difficult to say what power AAUP really has. My sense is that even institutions that have been sanctioned by AAUP have not suffered much. I believe they are still investigating Antioch Seattle. When Chancellor Murdock was President, the faculty had a vote of no confidence due to her management style. Then Chancellor Jim Hall sent out Presidents Danley and Craiglow to "investigate." The conclusion was reached that nothing should be done..and nothing was... Callie >On 7/31/07 9:21 PM, "Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)" > wrote: > >>The only legal fund set up to oppose the Antioch University Board Of Trustees >>closedown decision mandating Antioch College, Ohio, be closed down in July >>2008, is the fund set up by the faculty group opposing the closedown. >Jane, Yazz, and other eagles--Has the Alum Board consulted the American >Association of University Professors? AAUP President Carey Nelson is an >alum, incidentally. > >Art Dole '46 > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 15:37:34 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 1 15:50:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> Message-ID: <72397e61e5a2c5c33fb5aec6fd25f0bf@www.antiochians.org> This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. The patient is a death's door and may be brain dead, the person with legal authority says "pull the plug", and there is a chorus of others saying "Save Terry." Raising money. Trying to get judicial relief. And Bob playing the part of Tom DeLay. We all know what happened in the end. David, This analogy gets a D-. The College is not brain dead, and is fully capable of sustaining all vital functions, as demonstrated by the engagement of some of the brightest and most capable students that Antioch has had, the faculty's delivery of a complex and labor-intensive curriculum in spite of not having the resources promised to do so, the desire of a couple hundred students to return to and to attend Antioch this fall, in spite of its announced closing, three Fulbrights last year, etc. Those with the legal authority to say "pull the plug" have done so as the outcome of a protracted set of strategies to remove fiscal and programmatic control from the campus, to create a permanent deficit and concomitant dependency, to undermine and restrain leadership, and to "cleanse the ghosts". Those working to save the College are seeking (to build on the analogy) to reverse the iatrogenic diseases born of its institutional context (read that "governance"). As for playing the part of Tom DeLay, I'm not sure that it's entirely clear that the faculty as a whole is the driving force in seeking judicial relief. I have very little to do with it. So it's a two-fer -- you disrespect me, AND you disrespect the faculty and its leadership. The price paid for cleverness, I suppose. Meanwhile, those who sincerely want to believe the worst about Antioch College, who have for decades wanted to believe the worst, are happily engaged in gloating about the difficulties and inventing clever analogies of decline and demise. Wouldn't a crossword puzzle be more satisfying, David? Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 15:51:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 16:04:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <72397e61e5a2c5c33fb5aec6fd25f0bf@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <8b732fde340833f92842e25d3d95c04e@antiochians.org> OK I'll 'fess up: "iatrogenic" Couldn't find it in my dictionary. Definition? Thankee, Christian '94 Alumni Board Member Coveting the OED... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 15:55:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 16:08:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <8b732fde340833f92842e25d3d95c04e@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <159163bc38b137307c50bd0aee0ca19e@antiochians.org> An illness caused by a doctor. "When the junior mint fell into the operating cavity, an iatrogenic infection was caused." Skooter >OK I'll 'fess up: > >"iatrogenic" > >Couldn't find it in my dictionary. Definition? > >Thankee, > >Christian '94 >Alumni Board Member >Coveting the OED... > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 16:29:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 1 16:42:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5e89847af719c9bf0cb0095014671a90@www.antiochians.org> Ah John Hevelin...here is some Antioch memorabilia connected to your Night of the Living Dead. The hero in the movie..Duane Jones...was an Antioch Theater professor here in the mid seventies. Duffy Actually Duane taught literature. His finest screen performance was not in the George Romero film, but in Bill Gunn's "Ganja and Hess". It's a real treasure. Check it out if you get the chance. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 16:32:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 16:45:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <8b732fde340833f92842e25d3d95c04e@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Iatros means physician in Greek, and -genic, meaning induced by, is derived from the International Scientific Vocabulary. Combined, of course, they become iatrogenic, meaning physician-induced. Iatrogenic disease is obviously, then, disease which is caused by a physician. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 16:41:52 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jack (jack1@mac.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 16:55:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: <5e89847af719c9bf0cb0095014671a90@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <8c47c5b02f7c769ac39fb9d1731eda3a@antiochians.org> Anyone: I have "Ganja and Hess" on DVD, if any interested party wants to check it out, so long as you promise to share with others. j- Bob wrote: ...Duane taught literature. His finest screen performance was not in the George Romero film, but in Bill Gunn's "Ganja and Hess". It's a real treasure. Check it out if you get the chance. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 16:50:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 17:04:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: <8c47c5b02f7c769ac39fb9d1731eda3a@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <870864ac230dc03d94903596c57c6b00@antiochians.org> >Anyone: I have "Ganja and Hess" on DVD, if any interested party wants to check it out, so long as you promise to share with others. > >j- I'm down with that. [img]http://static.flickr.com/98/271785051_51119b5524_o.jpg[/img] From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 17:02:32 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 17:15:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: <5e89847af719c9bf0cb0095014671a90@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <219f95cefe085eac00e4a2e3271d6e39@antiochians.org> >Ah John Hevelin...here is some Antioch memorabilia connected to your Night >of the Living Dead. > >The hero in the movie..Duane Jones...was an Antioch Theater professor here >in the mid seventies. > >Duffy > > >Actually Duane taught literature. His finest screen performance was not in the George Romero film, but in Bill Gunn's "Ganja and Hess". It's a real treasure. Check it out if you get the chance. > >Bob Fascinating. Jones's appearance in /Night of the Living Dead/ (1970) was an extension of a positive trend begun in the Sixties of blacks playing non-stereotypical black roles, exemplified most notably by Nichelle Nicols as Lt. Uhura in /Star Trek/, but also including Gail Fisher as Peggy in /Mannix/, Greg Morris as Barney in /Mission Impossible/, and Bill Cosby in /I Spy/. John Sayles continued this tradition by casting Joe Morton as the alien in /Brother from Another Planet/ (1984), although this was an exception to the theme we've seen over the past decades that I call "blacks in an unsympathetic role," i.e., obstructionist civil servant, unsympathetic police captains, strident welfare mothers, uncooperative nurses, etc. Obligatory "Save Antioch" comment: What area of literature did Jones teach? John Hevelin '68 From afrye at bitwisesystems.com Wed Aug 1 17:30:12 2007 From: afrye at bitwisesystems.com (Ann Frye) Date: Wed Aug 1 17:43:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <8b732fde340833f92842e25d3d95c04e@antiochians.org> References: <8b732fde340833f92842e25d3d95c04e@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <46B0FB64.3070809@bitwisesystems.com> >"iatrogenic" > >Couldn't find it in my dictionary. Definition? > > From my 1978 American Heritage Dictionary: Induced in a patient by a physician's words or actions. Said especially of imagined illnesses. Ann Frye From jdavid at coldren.net Wed Aug 1 17:31:25 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Wed Aug 1 17:45:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <72397e61e5a2c5c33fb5aec6fd25f0bf@www.antiochians.org> References: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> <72397e61e5a2c5c33fb5aec6fd25f0bf@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <029e01c7d483$50e556c0$f2b00440$@net> Bob, Bob, Bob, First, nobody I know "wants to believe the worst about Antioch College" and nobody I know is gloating about its difficulties. To the contrary, all of the people in my circles of friends are heartsick about the College. Some have been sounding serious alarms about the College's directions and finances since shortly before you assumed the interim presidency. Then, as we got dribs and drabs of information from the College and the Alumni Association (not to mention the calls from students asking what we wanted to know about the College and suggesting a donation), some of us--not all, by any means--could sense the future that is now upon us and wondered how long it would take for the Board to make radical changes or place the College in greater protective custody. That time, regrettably, has come. As alumni we felt we had little input into the long-term decisions being made by a revolving door presidency and the Board of Trustees while our perceptions of the College's reputation for academic excellence steadily declined. Our concerns were reinforced by communications with friends on the faculty and residents of Yellow Springs and by our occasional visits to the campus where we saw deferred maintenance and outright vandalism. I will never forget my deep sorrow when I visited the amphitheatre in which I had spent so many happy hours and found it totally trashed; seats missing; and the cyclorama marred by graffiti. For that the Administration and, ultimately, the Board got an F in my book. Inexcusable. And it couldn't easily be blamed on Dr. Dixon and his burgeoning network thirty years earlier. Although many have tried and seem to believe that the University (nee the network) was the Original Sin. Finally, you take yourself much too seriously and waste valuable time trying to protect your legacy as the students' favorite president and professor instead of doing what a leader should: promulgate a tough, clear plan for fixing whatever problems have you have identified (as well of those others have pointed out) and set forth an actionable strategy for implementing that plan. If that plan exists, I certainly haven't seen it or heard of it and I would certainly be happy to read it and explore its intended consequences. Any reasonable plan should deal with the endowment, finances, physical plant, curriculum, demographics, and the admissions process along with dozens of other things that would be necessary for major donors to take it seriously. Is there a URL where we can get that plan? J. David Coldren '65 This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete them from your system. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu) Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 2:38 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. The patient is a death's door and may be brain dead, the person with legal authority says "pull the plug", and there is a chorus of others saying "Save Terry." Raising money. Trying to get judicial relief. And Bob playing the part of Tom DeLay. We all know what happened in the end. David, This analogy gets a D-. The College is not brain dead, and is fully capable of sustaining all vital functions, as demonstrated by the engagement of some of the brightest and most capable students that Antioch has had, the faculty's delivery of a complex and labor-intensive curriculum in spite of not having the resources promised to do so, the desire of a couple hundred students to return to and to attend Antioch this fall, in spite of its announced closing, three Fulbrights last year, etc. Those with the legal authority to say "pull the plug" have done so as the outcome of a protracted set of strategies to remove fiscal and programmatic control from the campus, to create a permanent deficit and concomitant dependency, to undermine and restrain leadership, and to "cleanse the ghosts". Those working to save the College are seeking (to build on the analogy) to reverse the iatrogenic diseases born of its institutional context (read that "governance"). As for playing the part of Tom DeLay, I'm not sure that it's entirely clear that the faculty as a whole is the driving force in seeking judicial relief. I have very little to do with it. So it's a two-fer -- you disrespect me, AND you disrespect the faculty and its leadership. The price paid for cleverness, I suppose. Meanwhile, those who sincerely want to believe the worst about Antioch College, who have for decades wanted to believe the worst, are happily engaged in gloating about the difficulties and inventing clever analogies of decline and demise. Wouldn't a crossword puzzle be more satisfying, David? Bob _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 17:52:27 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 18:05:38 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: <4ef33d84df6477c887c60fd7f2a183d9@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Nobody got that post yet? Really? Keep tyring! -A- From moloney at pobox.com Wed Aug 1 17:56:34 2007 From: moloney at pobox.com (Elizabeth Moloney) Date: Wed Aug 1 18:09:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] bob devine and the ampitheatre In-Reply-To: <029e01c7d483$50e556c0$f2b00440$@net> References: <024401c7d45d$db9c9e70$92d5db50$@net> <72397e61e5a2c5c33fb5aec6fd25f0bf@www.antiochians.org> <029e01c7d483$50e556c0$f2b00440$@net> Message-ID: <9165C608-498D-4748-A16E-A7BA0237CFAE@pobox.com> Just have to chime in re: the ampitheatre.... it was repainted and renovated a number of years ago. In addition to the surface graffiti you described, there were also structural problems which meant that while I was a student, it was declared off limits for use by the theatre dept.... I don't know if it was officially condemned by the town but we certainly weren't supposed to be using it! This was prior to the goodman dedication (early 90s). I went back twice after I graduated to be a guest artist and stage manage for Louise Smith in the theatre department and the whole thing was in much better condition (1998 and 2001). I'm just curious when you were last there. Aside from the facts that the disintegrating ampitheatre was host to many a great Photo class care of Dennie Eagleson, I agree that it was a shame that it got that bad. But it was that bad before Bob was president so you can't pin that on him either. Bob also doesn't have to spend anytime on protecting his legacy as the favorite president. I for one will do that for him and shout from the roof tops that he was and is my favorite. When I started, Guskin was president, when I graduated Bob was president and while I was a CM, Crowfoot was president. Need I say more? I see the absence of a "tough, clear plan" is the failure of the BoT as a whole and the admin that has come along since Bob went back to teaching and civilian/non admin life. From my point of view, the rushed instituting of the 5 year plan and "New Curriculum" and the pulling out of the rug from the faculty that was quick to follow is more to blame. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that post-Bob's presidency? Having jut said "correct me if I'm wrong", if you want to reply only to convert me from Devine-fan-dom, please refrain and let's just agree to disagree. - beth '95 On Aug 1, 2007, at 5:31 PM, J. David Coldren wrote: > ....I will never forget my deep sorrow when I visited the > amphitheatre in which > I had spent so many happy hours and found it totally trashed; seats > missing; > and the cyclorama marred by graffiti..... > > Finally, you take yourself much too seriously and waste valuable > time trying > to protect your legacy as the students' favorite president and > professor > instead of doing what a leader should: promulgate a tough, clear > plan for > fixing whatever problems have you have identified (as well of those > others > have pointed out) and set forth an actionable strategy for > implementing that > plan.... > > > J. David Coldren '65 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 18:11:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Beth Richards (insanedeity@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 18:24:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <029e01c7d483$50e556c0$f2b00440$@net> Message-ID: <86516cda75d705861253fce7a784846c@www.antiochians.org> Hi David, I do not know when your last visit to the Amphitheater was, but as a recent theatre graduate I can tell you it has been refurbished. I believe in 1996. Yes, the before pictures are extraordinarily sad. But I believe it was this state that you refer to, not the present condition. During my time at Antioch the department looked forward with tremendous excitement to the Summer block shows. My memories of Romeo & Juliet in '99 are some of my best from college. We we all greatly saddened when this tradition was allowed to die with the cutting of the Summer Institute Program budgets after Summer 2001. However, this has not stopped the theatre department and the community of Yellow Springs from utilizing the Amphitheater as a valuable resource. The YS Kids Playhouse group uses it as their resident space. Musical performances such as Blues Fest continue to take place. And classes and performances of the Antioch College Theatre Department are regular events. I am dreaming of the day when "Shakespeare Under The Stars" returns to a place as a regional event, bringing faculty, students, community, and audience together. And I am working to make that dream happen. I hope to see you at the next show! I'm nominating "All's Well That Ends Well". -Beth R. '04 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 19:03:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 19:16:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <029e01c7d483$50e556c0$f2b00440$@net> Message-ID: <43e0c0ac6491c51f17d7247f92e2d65a@antiochians.org> David, To steal a phrase, I am agnostic on Bob Devine's presidency for lack of attention during his tenure. However I believe his interests are a little bit bigger than the handful of dust he would be left with if his goal were to preserve his status and watch the college close. He has been very willing to answer questions and I think we are all mature enough and critical enough to know that we all have personal agenda. Perhaps agenda should be saved from its use as term of scorn and understood to mean the internal guide we use to prioritize our actions and our commitments. David, you seem to take very little human interest in the effect this decision is having on the people on the ground in YSO. Bob is not taking himself too seriously he and Duffy and all the others on the faculty and staff are fighting for their jobs, their homes, and their hometown. You seem fine with their casual dismissal and do not much value their input which might have stopped the slide (e.g. their resistence to the Renewal curriculum). The University has provided no forum for the faculty to provide feedback on various decisions made over the last few years and around the suspension of the college operations in particular. Staff, well, staff have always been dismissed and abused and the first to take a hit when there is a budget cut. I do not know what you and circle of friends have done or not done in the past for the college. I do not know which presidents and which chancellors ignored you or which of your fellow well established older alums on the Board didn't listen or did not take action. But we can look at ups and downs in enrollment, we can look at ups and downs in endowment, we can look at ups and downs in faculty morale, etc and those comparisons show that there have been significant efforts to revitalize the college and that these efforts have been subsuqently undermined at every turn by the University. So why don't you give a rousing round of criticism to Al Guskin who led the BoT to the seperation of the president and chancellor positions which ended the primacy of the college in the system and made it the poor relative to a collection of colleges with a completely different operational model, student base and cost structure. Get on Al for leaving with an obviously inapprorpiate person in the president's office (I did not sit on the selection committee for Crowfoot but half and hour in his presence was enough for me to determine that a) he lacked the vision of leader b) he lacked an understanding of the challenges that faced the college c) he obviously did not understand the emerging reporting structure of the university. In the seesion I attended he was asked questions on all of these points and his responses as I recall were feeble at best). I appreciate that others on this forum will tell you about the rennovation of the amphitheater. That there have been steps forward and many important ones were made when Al was president and many more when Bob came along. I hope that Alan will post his picture of Bob the Wizard with his magic wand and basalisk eyes because its funny and it points out that no one person is responsible and no one person can save the day. With a new found sense of civility, Travis From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 19:15:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 19:29:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <3ddff152686f82555207f859f627cf17@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Um... The President of the AAUP is married to one of the current members of the AUBoT? Wow, that marriage must have some very clear boundaries for her not to be told over the dinner table "Oh by the way dear, your financial exigency is a joke and violates some bery basic accounting rules in determining such matters in a university structure, and you guys really screwed your faculty by not telling them in advance or bringing them into the decision practice and really aren't you just trying to get rid of them? Pass the butter please." As for Toni's non-tenured faculty revolt in Seattle, not at all suprising, but given the no confidence vote this is the person the AUBoT chose to lead AU? Amazing. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 19:40:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 19:53:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <8b732fde340833f92842e25d3d95c04e@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Stemming from the physician's care, I think. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 19:50:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:04:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: <457820ccf5050b0c6f8410bc0a4863b2@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >>oh... and that car had tried to run me down... I somesaulted to there. >Now I have the Six Million Dollar Man sound stuck in my head. Thanks for that. > >e > >ps. It's really too bad we can't see the look on that driver's face. Tell your camera man to do better next time! ;) Sadly... the camera person was trying not to document very much that day. Thus... good documentary evidence of the events of the lives of both myself and the driver (and some other people) do not exist for the next 6 to 10 seconds. The car.... left the scene.... not under its own power. I actually used [url=http://www.genbukan.org/s3/site/movies/10thKyuZenpoKaiten.wmv]zenpo kaiten [/img] to get there. Which I learned in the Antioch gym. Yes I still study ninpo. Please dont beat me up. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 20:07:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:20:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <43e0c0ac6491c51f17d7247f92e2d65a@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <944e8e4d14c299df2542681afbb50f95@antiochians.org> >I hope that Alan will post his picture of Bob the Wizard with his magic wand and basalisk eyes because its funny and it points out that no one person is responsible and no one person can save the day. I dunno...I'm already in the doghouse for all those invisible posts in which I lied about AIF .... Well, okay! [big][red]"That's right, my pretties...DESTROY THE COLLEGE! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN! MOO HOO HAA HAA HAA! DO MY EVIL BIDDING!![/big][/red] [img]http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z106/meomy1/lord_bobdemort.jpg[/img] From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 20:11:47 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:25:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <86516cda75d705861253fce7a784846c@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >From: "Beth Richards (insanedeity@gmail.com)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 17:11:18 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc9-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 1 >Aug 2007 15:11:17 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id C747660D0920;Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:24:28 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B05F60D0914for >; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:24:26 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IGMPW-0007wq-J3for >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:11:18 -0500 >X-Message-Info: >txF49lGdW421q3T6032znRWMrH+L0vABAorZJPGz6zRWBVHIdz1eXWDRvvWCrEWp >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >Thread-Index: AcfURlV2F8lgIOYKRSmVPo6eSh3AUAAFsFuwAAe6f4A= >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Aug 2007 22:11:17.0873 (UTC) >FILETIME=[E22F2610:01C7D488] > >Hi David, > >I do not know when your last visit to the Amphitheater was, but as a recent >theatre graduate I can tell you it has been refurbished. I believe in >1996. Yes, the before pictures are extraordinarily sad. But I believe it >was this state that you refer to, not the present condition. During my >time at Antioch the department looked forward with tremendous excitement to >the Summer block shows. My memories of Romeo & Juliet in '99 are some of >my best from college. We we all greatly saddened when this tradition was >allowed to die with the cutting of the Summer Institute Program budgets >after Summer 2001. However, this has not stopped the theatre department >and the community of Yellow Springs from utilizing the Amphitheater as a >valuable resource. The YS Kids Playhouse group uses it as their resident >space. Musical performances such as Blues Fest continue to take place. >And classes and performances of the Antioch College Theatre Department are >regular events. > >I am dreaming of the day when "Shakespeare Under The Stars" returns to a >place as a regional event, bringing faculty, students, community, and >audience together. And I am working to make that dream happen. I hope to >see you at the next show! I'm nominating "All's Well That Ends Well". > >-Beth R. '04 > > or we could do an Antioch adaptation of Henry the Vth. with Jessica and Ted as Scroop and Grey. Toni as the Dauphin and Danly as the marshall of france. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 20:16:38 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:29:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Um... >The President of the AAUP is married to one of the current members of the >AUBoT? >Wow, that marriage must have some very clear boundaries for her not to be >told over the dinner table "Oh by the way dear, your financial exigency is >a joke and violates some bery basic accounting rules in determining such >matters in a university structure, and you guys really screwed your faculty >by not telling them in advance or bringing them into the decision practice >and really aren't you just trying to get rid of them? Pass the butter >please." > Except that Paula is on OUR side. I have no way of knowing which way who voted in the meeting... But I'm close to 99% sure that Paula was in the minority against closure. I'd also refrain from speculating what goes on inside other people houses.... although I believe Barbara Danely likes killing kittens. And Toni thought seal clubbing was a recreational activity not an industry. ---G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 20:18:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:31:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >or we could do an Antioch adaptation of Henry the Vth. with Jessica and Ted >as Scroop and Grey. Toni as the Dauphin and Danly as the marshall of >france. I'm thinking Toni as Macbeth, myself. From marklp2 at comcast.net Wed Aug 1 20:20:37 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:33:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: <86516cda75d705861253fce7a784846c@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <014b01c7d49a$f3a075e0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Are you Henry? >I am dreaming of the day when "Shakespeare Under The Stars" returns to a >place as a regional event, bringing faculty, students, community, and >audience together. And I am working to make that dream happen. I hope to >see you at the next show! I'm nominating "All's Well That Ends Well". > >-Beth R. '04 > > or we could do an Antioch adaptation of Henry the Vth. with Jessica and Ted as Scroop and Grey. Toni as the Dauphin and Danly as the marshall of france. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date: 7/25/2007 2:55 PM From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 20:26:12 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 1 20:39:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <014b01c7d49a$f3a075e0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: >Are you Henry? I'm to old. Exeter... Fits me better. A current CM should play Henry. _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 21:48:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:02:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04c9b344fe8e3842a45a6cfcd70bc073@antiochians.org> Matt Baya wins! And if anyone would win, it's Matt. Thanks! Duffy, you and Katy owe me a tiny apology but it's all good. In fact, drumroll please, the offending data was provided by...Sistersara! To wit (and please notice that Sistersara is *responding*to my kvetching: >> From: Sistersara@aol.com > > Date: July 8, 2007 5:06:38 PM EDT > > To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > > Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Alanbernard on ACAA > > Reply-To: Alumni Chat List > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/8/2007 3:02:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > > alanbenard@comcast.net writes: > > > > I believe it is absolutely necessary in the interest of > > transparency for the > > ACAA leadership to explain: > > > > * Steps to organize as a private, non-profit association in the > > State of Ohio > > * Steps to create legal barriers to challenges to the Revival Fund's > > independence from AU > > * An explanation of what kind of organization is in formation, if > > any -- a > > 501(c)3 or a foundation > > * An explanation of how Revival funds entrusted to a third party > > would be > > legally protected, how much overhead would be charged for the > > administration of > > the fund, how donations would be tax-deductible, and the mechanism > > by which > > those funds would be returned to the control of the ACAA for > > disposition to a > > separated AC and what their disposition would be if AC is never re- > > opened > > and/or not separated. > > > > I expect no clear answers. > > > > Alan Benard > > > > > > > > Totally second this position. If indeed ACAA is incorporated as a > > non-profit in the state of Ohio, the Sec of State or the ACAA board > > ought to be able > > to post the official charter, including the dates when the charter > > was filed > > and all. I would point out that if something was done in 1969 as > > someone > > suggested, that was 1) before the University was created, and 2) > > an entirely > > different group of board members. I doubt if a 1969 mission > > statement would in > > any way be adequate at this point. My own memory has it that in > > 1969 the > > question was whether there would be one big Alumni Association for > > everyone, or > > whether College alumns wanted to retain their older and informal > > organization. > > That is hardly the issue today. > > > > What is needed now, for fully understandable legal reasons, is a > > formal > > voted resolution to incorporate for purposes of the new mission, > > with a formal > > vote by the ACAA Board as it currently stands as an alumni elected > > entities. > > This would be followed by the officers filing paperwork with > > Ohio's Secretary > > of State. The Sec of State will give you a fancy piece of paper > > called a > > "CHARTER" once you file, and that is preliminary to doing the rest > > of what's > > necessary to file your 501 or other category of tax exempt class > > available to > > the now properly chartered ACAA. > > > > I would respectfully point out to the Alumni Board that we do have > > empirical > > evidence available as to how Alumni feel about some sort of switch > > being > > pulled, and suddenly finding that funds intended for the College > > have suddenly > > been changed into University funds. During AIF about 1.2 million was > > contributed to the fund, and in the end only 160 thousand had > > Antioch University as > > secondary designee. You may not clearly understand all the legal > > matters > > involved here yet, but I can assure the current ACAA board you > > have a moral > > obligation to assure any donor that they have a choice to prevent > > any money they > > donate being used for a purpose they do not intend. The only way > > you can do > > this is to clean up the incorporation matter, and post clearly all > > decisions > > of the board. > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http:// > > www.aol.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > Antioch College Alumni-chat mailing list > > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 1 21:54:41 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:07:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <029e01c7d483$50e556c0$f2b00440$@net> Message-ID: [quote=jdc] tl;dr I will never forget my deep sorrow when I visited the amphitheatre in which I had spent so many happy hours and found it totally trashed; seats missing; and the cyclorama marred by graffiti. For that the Administration and, ultimately, the Board got an F in my book. Inexcusable. And it couldn't easily be blamed on Dr. Dixon and his burgeoning network thirty years earlier. Although many have tried and seem to believe that the University (nee the network) was the Original Sin. J. David Coldren '65[/quote] Of course David doesnt want to blame Dixon... Since he worked in Developement for Dixon after graduation in '65 promoting and building the University System. So he is the one with a Legacy to protect. Then, in 1970: "In 1970, he was named special assistant to Illinois Governor Richard B. Ogilvie, who led the effort reorganize and reform Illinois's antiquated and corrupt criminal justice system. He subsequently served as a senior policy advisor on criminal justice to three other Illinois governors. As the founding Executive Director of the Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority under Governor James R. Thompson, Mr. Coldren focused on improving the administration of justice through research, long-range planning, and information technologies." --- quoted from David's Resume (David is right now SCREAMING "But I took that down off the internet in 2005! Where did he get it?".) David... you can hide from google, but you cant hide from me. Of course in his "reforms" of the criminal justice system he failed to even to abolish its death row... or even the use of [url=http://www.truthinjustice.org/jon-burge.htm]torture[/url] to get people there. In 1992 he lost that job....er... resigned.. Because he kept flying 1st class rather than coach on the taxpayer's nickle. [url=http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1992/ii920428.html]He complained that his FAT PIG ASS would not fit in a coach seat.[/url] Very Chicago of him. David lives in this nice big house where he trolls us from. He also owns the house next door. [img]http://coldren.net/images/TFL33and34.gif[/img] I suspect he is hoping to get on the board of Antioch University... replacing anybody who votes against Toni... Along with Jessica and Ted. Dont Piss Off the Hackers David... We know things. Like how you gave money to George Bush... But then again he likes torture... and you care more about lecturing on information technology and law enforcement than human rights. Or you once called the "current orthodoxy" in the media "Defeatist Liberalism" Or that although you lecture on information technology but you have trouble with windows XP. Have a Happy Antioch Day. _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 22:15:16 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:28:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <58751e9ddb62c09b2076dafa68ed839e@antiochians.org> >"In 1970, he was named special assistant to Illinois Governor Richard B. >Ogilvie, who led the effort reorganize and reform Illinois's antiquated and >corrupt criminal justice system. He subsequently served as a senior policy >advisor on criminal justice to three other Illinois governors. > >As the founding Executive Director of the Illinois Criminal Justice >Information Authority under Governor James R. Thompson, Mr. Coldren focused >on improving the administration of justice through research, long-range >planning, and information technologies." --- quoted from David's Resume >(David is right now SCREAMING "But I took that down off the internet in >2005! Where did he get it?".) David... you can hide from google, but you >cant hide from me. > > >Of course in his "reforms" of the criminal justice system he failed to even >to abolish its death row... or even the use of >http://www.truthinjustice.org/jon-burge.htm]torture to get people >there. > >In 1992 he lost that job....er... resigned.. Because he kept flying 1st >class rather than coach on the taxpayer's nickle. >[url=http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1992/ii920428.html]He complained that his >FAT PIG ASS would not fit in a coach seat.[/url] Very Chicago of him. I can't stop laughing. /Especially/ because I'm from Chicago. And at his Tyron Farm development, you can "build a new house in the country", where "homes range from $218,000 to $488,000." http://www.tryonfarm.com/main.html via http://coldren.net/MichiganCity/index.html I guess he'll be on Toni's board to provide advice on how to redevelop sleepy rural areas into McMansion sprawl. Also humorously, he's capping off a life of public service to Illinois by encouraging people to live in Indiana. Rural Indiana, far from Illinois' and north-west Indiana's crime problems. Gerry for the win! [img]http://www.creative-weblogging.com/50226711/images/winner.jpg[/img] From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 22:17:40 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:30:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4446a5d0f61384667b40afd914596495@antiochians.org> Ooh... a modern contemporary. lol From marklp2 at comcast.net Wed Aug 1 22:19:47 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:33:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <58751e9ddb62c09b2076dafa68ed839e@antiochians.org> References: <58751e9ddb62c09b2076dafa68ed839e@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <019a01c7d4ab$99d57db0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. Mark P. '71 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com) Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 7:15 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 >"In 1970, he was named special assistant to Illinois Governor Richard B. >Ogilvie, who led the effort reorganize and reform Illinois's antiquated and >corrupt criminal justice system. He subsequently served as a senior policy >advisor on criminal justice to three other Illinois governors. > >As the founding Executive Director of the Illinois Criminal Justice >Information Authority under Governor James R. Thompson, Mr. Coldren focused >on improving the administration of justice through research, long-range >planning, and information technologies." --- quoted from David's Resume >(David is right now SCREAMING "But I took that down off the internet in >2005! Where did he get it?".) David... you can hide from google, but you >cant hide from me. > > >Of course in his "reforms" of the criminal justice system he failed to even >to abolish its death row... or even the use of >http://www.truthinjustice.org/jon-burge.htm]torture to get people >there. > >In 1992 he lost that job....er... resigned.. Because he kept flying 1st >class rather than coach on the taxpayer's nickle. >[url=http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1992/ii920428.html]He complained that his >FAT PIG ASS would not fit in a coach seat.[/url] Very Chicago of him. I can't stop laughing. /Especially/ because I'm from Chicago. And at his Tyron Farm development, you can "build a new house in the country", where "homes range from $218,000 to $488,000." http://www.tryonfarm.com/main.html via http://coldren.net/MichiganCity/index.html I guess he'll be on Toni's board to provide advice on how to redevelop sleepy rural areas into McMansion sprawl. Also humorously, he's capping off a life of public service to Illinois by encouraging people to live in Indiana. Rural Indiana, far from Illinois' and north-west Indiana's crime problems. Gerry for the win! [img]http://www.creative-weblogging.com/50226711/images/winner.jpg[/img] _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date: 7/25/2007 2:55 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.19/918 - Release Date: 7/25/2007 2:55 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 22:36:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:49:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <58751e9ddb62c09b2076dafa68ed839e@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <397ebb0fee57d286dc0c87850036edc3@antiochians.org> As well as being a man of stature, J. David is a dreamer. Here's J. David's redevelopment scheme for the college, complete with fresh ideas about union busting and outsourcing: >Outsource as much of the food services, maintenance, security, landscaping, etc. to the new retail restaurants and other businesses as possible. One hand washes the other. Students will love giving a cut of their room and board fees to multi-national corporations: >The income streams for leasing space to the ALC management company (Marriott, Hyatt, and others are experts in this business now) and the rent from student residential housing in the ALC (which Marriott, at least can do) will both be part of a sustainable income stream to the College. Here's the old-folks home and strip-mall part, because J. David will: >Provide adequate, attractive retail spaces on long-term leases >We also find a nationally recognized developer of assisted living communities. ... They are asked to imagine a clean slate of structures around the core described above and to build clusters of residential homes and retail stores anchored by a state-of-the-art residential assisted living center (services from adult day care, independent living, and assisted living, to Alzheimer?s care, nursing home and hospice) and, if necessary, a clinic. The assisted living center (ALC) structure would also house first-year students with all the dining facilities required for both populations: table service for the seasoned citizens and cafeteria service for the students and the seniors? family and guests. That'll make the little shits behave -- make 'em eat with grandma! Anyone's grandma. J. David, no, this is not passing "the snicker factor," nor the smell test. http://antirecord.org/node/590 >Words of J. David Coldren, Antioch '66, proposing a plan for re-opening Antioch in 2012 and providing particulars about his plan: > >" I think it?s great that we have an endowed chair in peace studies and that students can major in gender-specific studies, but I refuse to believe that the value of a liberal arts education--as defined in the catalogs of the 1960?s with an emphasis on writing skills, broad knowledge in the physical sciences, social sciences, arts, humanities, and languages?is out of date. It seems to me that specialization in a field of study comes way too early in a student?s ?education? these days and that those students are being short-changed. They soon find out how limited are their intellectual underpinnings. > >"So I hope what Antioch will do is, yes, put together a social entrepreneurship program that requires at least two years of rigorous liberal arts classes before the students can get all charged up about turning a co-op job into a full-time activist job thereby aborting their education. > >"So I?m 'down for the struggle' with some minor issues that need clarification. > >"Over the past couple of weeks, I?ve been challenged to come up with some theoretical idea of how Antioch Yellow Springs could quickly reinvent itself and come away in a few years quite alive and with a sustainable revenue stream. In the foregoing, I assume that the faculty?s search for an injunction to save their jobs (and tenure) will fail; the Alumni trying to raise $10 to $40 million will come up far short; and that the College will cease operations next July maintaining only skeletal security, library, and mechanical services. > >"I?ve gone thru quite a few iterations of this. And I want to make clear my idea is not based on one iota of data so I obviously haven?t ?run the numbers? and am relying solely on my 65+ years as a participant/observer plus my passion for the founding spirit of Antioch College. > >" > > 1. We honor the landmark status of North, South, and the Main Building and make whatever repairs and remodeling is required to house the AC administration, CG, the auditorium, faculty offices, and some classrooms. I don?t know if the library needs to be totally rebuilt; same for the science building. Whatever we do it must be handicap (wheelchair) accessible. > > " > 2. We find a developer who has a proven track record in building environmentally-friendly and human-friendly communities. We also find a nationally recognized developer of assisted living communities. The process of finding them may involve brief competitions for concepts, etc. They are asked to imagine a clean slate of structures around the core described above and to build clusters of residential homes and retail stores anchored by a state-of-the-art residential assisted living center (services from adult day care, independent living, and assisted living, to Alzheimer?s care, nursing home and hospice) and, if necessary, a clinic. The assisted living center (ALC) structure would also house first-year students with all the dining facilities required for both populations: table service for the seasoned citizens and cafeteria service for the students and the seniors? family and guests. The students are encouraged to eat with and get to know their elders and vice versa. In my imagination, that would be good for modifying the behaviors of both groups (for the better) and be a real-world, up front look at old age, death and dying and an acquaintance with ALC residents who may well be former faculty, former students, former YSO townies, etc. who love YSO and the Glen and have lots of stories and wisdom to share. There should be some mandatory seminar for all first year students to help them process this experience and maximize the benefits to them. > > " > 3. The income streams for leasing space to the ALC management company (Marriott, Hyatt, and others are experts in this business now) and the rent from student residential housing in the ALC (which Marriott, at least can do) will both be part of a sustainable income stream to the College. > > " > 4. The remaining land is to be configured in ways to: > 1. Minimize land footprints (go up, not out); > 2. Maximize green space and water amenities; > 3. Maintain an architectural coherence; NOT cookie cutter buildings; but also NOT a plate-glass 7-Eleven next to a Tudor structure; > 4. Employ solar energy for common area utilities; > 5. Use constructed wastewater wetlands for sewers and drainage as allowed by Ohio law; > 6. Provide residential units for AC 2nd, 3rd, and 4th-year students and faculty for short-term rent and long-term lease, the student rentals coinciding with Antioch?s academic calendar; > 7. Provide adequate, attractive retail spaces on long-term leases > 8. Provide a performing arts center for AC drama, music, and dance departments as well as for ?town-gown? theatrical productions, concerts, and visiting artist programs; funds for the non-academic portions of the arts center to be raised from private donors; > 9. Minimize maintenance costs to the College; and > 10. Maximize recurring income to sustain the College?s undergraduate education programs. > > " > 5. Outsource as much of the food services, maintenance, security, landscaping, etc. to the new retail restaurants and other businesses as possible. One hand washes the other. > >"My sense is that a greatly improved endowment plus tuition plus the sustained income from leasing the land could pay for the administration, faculty, student scholarships, and maintenance and improvements to the three core buildings plus the performing arts center. > >"To your point of social entrepreneurship, I believe that by linking an assisted living community with an academic institution you greatly enhance in students a natural empathy for America?s demographic imperatives. How do we as a society treat people who lead active lives long past retirement? How do we treat people enmeshed in the epidemic of Alzheimer?s disease? (Who knows? Maybe some entrepreneur will set up an accreditation program for assisted living personnel using Antioch College and the co-op program as a base. That could improve treatment of our elders in due time.) In the meantime, the academic and cultural activities that should take place at a true liberal arts college will greatly enhance the lives of all ALC residents. So we?re already doing good by doing well. > >"To bring my idea to fruition, it needs to pass the ?snicker factor? among the Antioch constituency and then needs to run the gauntlet of endless meetings with the greater Yellow Springs community, alumni, business interests, government funding sources, the Board of Trustees and some major, major donors. (I think some of these recent software gazillionaires might like to start a new college with a social twist.) > >"As for the proposed student body, I would instruct the admissions people to trumpet the revival and to admit only the really smart, the reasonably mature (self-aware at present if still curious about the future), and those seeking a rigorous non-bullshit liberal arts education. We need to recruit a faculty that can deliver that and who can suppress any tendencies to revert to the 60?s or70?s as a cultural template. We may have to pay more for faculty and we may have to discount tuition for the first two years or so to prove the new Antioch Yellow Springs isn?t just smoke and mirrors.. > >Thanks for getting touch, > >J. David Coldren ?65 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 22:38:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:51:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <019a01c7d4ab$99d57db0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: >Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. > >Mark P. '71 He started it! I guess I'll just stand here and get purged instead, eh, Mark? Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 22:41:52 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:55:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <019a01c7d4ab$99d57db0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <5c94af2898f847e9f9c1ef655a710dd3@antiochians.org> >Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. > >Mark P. '71 Agreed. I know I sound like a broken record, but let's try and respond to arguments and not resort to humiliating or bullying individuals. Skooter From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 22:43:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 1 22:56:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <86516cda75d705861253fce7a784846c@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <10d777ec92115088525ec1cc0d24d280@www.antiochians.org> Beth, It was in 1997 that it was renovated with some funds from the estate of Miles Budd Goodman (for whom it is now named), some money from the MacArthur Foundation, and the sweat equity of dozens of alums participating in the work project who painted the renovated amphitheater and worked on removable benches for the venue. It was the site of the summer theater institute from 97 to 2000, and has once again become a well-known venue for music and theater in the Miami valley. I think there are many in Yellow Springs and among alums who dream of the return of Shakespeare Under the Stars as a regional event. Bob I do not know when your last visit to the Amphitheater was, but as a recent theatre graduate I can tell you it has been refurbished. I believe in 1996. Yes, the before pictures are extraordinarily sad. But I believe it was this state that you refer to, not the present condition. During my time at Antioch the department looked forward with tremendous excitement to the Summer block shows. My memories of Romeo & Juliet in '99 are some of my best from college. We we all greatly saddened when this tradition was allowed to die with the cutting of the Summer Institute Program budgets after Summer 2001. However, this has not stopped the theatre department and the community of Yellow Springs from utilizing the Amphitheater as a valuable resource. The YS Kids Playhouse group uses it as their resident space. Musical performances such as Blues Fest continue to take place. And classes and performances of the Antioch College Theatre Department are regular events. I am dreaming of the day when "Shakespeare Under The Stars" returns to a place as a regional event, bringing faculty, students, community, and audience together. And I am working to make that dream happen. I hope to see you at the next show! I'm nominating "All's Well That Ends Well". -Beth R. '04 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 22:48:17 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 23:01:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <019a01c7d4ab$99d57db0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <6152d888dcd5471afcc2141c7f025d02@antiochians.org> >Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. > >Mark P. '71 Oh, wait, I forgot: >Also humorously, he's capping off a life of public service to Illinois by >encouraging people to live in Indiana. Rural Indiana, far from Illinois' and >north-west Indiana's crime problems. > >And non-whites. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 23:14:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 1 23:27:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <019a01c7d4ab$99d57db0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: >Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. > >Mark P. '71 Do you actually believe this stuff? [img]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r166/tangentninja/bobsredguardcopy.jpg[/img] From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Aug 1 23:29:34 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 1 23:43:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 Message-ID: In a message dated 8/1/2007 9:44:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: I am dreaming of the day when "Shakespeare Under The Stars" returns to a place as a regional event, bringing faculty, students, community, and audience together. And I am working to make that dream happen. I hope to see you at the next show! I'm nominating "All's Well That Ends Well". -Beth R. '04 Beth, Shakespeare Under the Stars -- and I think one way or another I saw all the plays (beginning with King John), either by being in the audience, or sitting on the lawn and watching rehearsals. At the time Antioch had perhaps four tenured members of the Theatre Department, but the majority of the roles were played by professional actors from New York and other places, and they were paid Union Scale. Students understudied, did production, dealt with ticketing and all -- and of course made costumes and all -- but essentially it was a full blown professional production effort. You didn't get theatre bus tours coming in from New York, having read the Times Reviews, because something amateur was being done. The Amphitheater was hardly an adequate replacement for the stage of those days -- It was a seven level thrust structure constructed of beams and platforms against the face of Main Building, that made use of windows in the towers for entrances and exits. (this was before Main Building was gutted and restored.) And while Main Building was never exactly Tudor, once it got a little dark and the lighting people did their thing with our Towers, it was totally theatrical. I always thought the amphitheater a rather piss poor replacement for that stage. For some things it is great -- but it was never for Shakespeare. I have always wondered if anyone filmed any of the plays? (no Video in those days). ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 23:47:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Thu Aug 2 00:00:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. Mark P. '71 He started it! I guess I'll just stand here and get purged instead, eh, Mark? Folks, I can laugh at the image of me as a wizard, I can rankle at being compared to Tom Delay, and I still roll on the floor when I see the bunny with the pancake on its head. But I'm more than a little uncomfortable with the ad hominems directed toward David. I've known David since we were both undergraduates, and though most often I find myself 180 degrees at odds with his perspectives, I've always respected David, have valued my conversations and interactions with him, and most of the time have learned something from him. Like most good Antiochians, David challenges assumptions, reframes the discourse, tweaks the posers and pretenders and applies critical reason to the conventional wisdoms. Sometimes he makes me mad as hell, and pushes me beyond civility, but his contributions to this discourse ought to be as thoroughly and critically examined and evaluated as any and all others. When I see David's house posted along with the very personal stuff, I feel compelled to respond. The only time I saw an image of my home in an e-mail message, it was from a cop, angry that Mumia Abu Jamal was going to be permitted to speak at Antioch's commencement. The words accompanying the image said, "I know where you live, I've seen you in your bedroom window, you're dead meat." The image was such an unimaginable invasion and threat that it still haunts me. I would not like for anyone else to experience that sense of violation of personal space, and I would not like to see the dialogue devolve to personal attack. If my expressed anger precipitated these ad hominem attacks, I sincerely apologize. I would hope that we could deal with differences with good humor and civility. There is so much to be done, and it will require all of us to meet the challenges ahead. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 1 23:57:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (klpett (klpett@sbcglobal.net)) Date: Thu Aug 2 00:10:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Int'l Support Antioch Wknd Aug 17-19 Update! Message-ID: <68a2df8233ba2ef9dd42744e759074f3@antiochians.org> We are excited to hear about the many upcoming events during the International Support Antioch College Weekend August 17-19. What you are doing is very valuable in our efforts to save Antioch College. To help you prepare for your event, we have put up a Basic Guide, or Talking Points, about the College Revival Fund, a pledge card, both of which may be copied for distribution, and a press release template on the Antiochians.org website under "Chapters." Many of us are recording our events through video and still photography as well. This weekend is a celebration of all things Antioch College. It is important, not only to raise money for the College Revival fund, but to also garner media attention for our struggle, to show the Board of Trustees that there is a very active, involved Alumni Association worldwide - and, to have fun! So many of us have been giving countless hours in volunteer work and organizing. In our effort to gain national attention, it is important that you please forward news about what your chapter is organizing to both the Chapters and Marketing sub-committees. Contact information is at the end of this communication. As you are no doubt aware, the College Revival Fund was put in place at the historic 2007 Antioch College Reunion, to support the unanimous resolution of the Alumni Association to fight to keep the College open past its proposed closing of June 2008 (to see the full resolution, please visit Antiochians.org). We currently have over $625,000 in the College Revival fund and over $2,000,000 in expressions of intent. Let?s see how much more we can raise before the Board of Trustees meeting on August 25! Thank you everyone for your time, effort, and passion for Antioch College. Let?s make this happen in a really big way and be ashamed to let it die! In solidarity, Kristen Pett ?90 Alumni Board Member Aimee Maruyama, Co-Chair Chapters Sub-Committee amaruyama@antioch-college.edu Karen Mulhauser, Co-Chair Chapters Sub-Committee kmulhauser@consultingwoman.com Christian Feuerstein, Marketing Sub-Committee christian.feuerstein@gmail.com Kristen Pett, Marketing Sub-Committee klpett@sbcglobal.net From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 00:34:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 00:47:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2c1ce6e0f2a4ef58256ce7f758884774@www.antiochians.org> >Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. > >Mark P. '71 >He started it! > >I guess I'll just stand here and get purged instead, eh, Mark? > >Folks, > >I can laugh at the image of me as a wizard, I can rankle at being compared to Tom Delay, and I still roll on the floor when I see the bunny with the pancake on its head. But I'm more than a little uncomfortable with the ad hominems directed toward David. I've known David since we were both undergraduates, and though most often I find myself 180 degrees at odds with his perspectives, I've always respected David, have valued my conversations and interactions with him, and most of the time have learned something from him. Like most good Antiochians, David challenges assumptions, reframes the discourse, tweaks the posers and pretenders and applies critical reason to the conventional wisdoms. Sometimes he makes me mad as hell, and pushes me beyond civility, but his contributions to this discourse ought to be as thoroughly and critically examined and evaluated as any and all others. > >When I see David's house posted along with the very personal stuff, I feel compelled to respond. The only time I saw an image of my home in an e-mail message, it was from a cop, angry that Mumia Abu Jamal was going to be permitted to speak at Antioch's commencement. The words accompanying the image said, "I know where you live, I've seen you in your bedroom window, you're dead meat." The image was such an unimaginable invasion and threat that it still haunts me. I would not like for anyone else to experience that sense of violation of personal space, and I would not like to see the dialogue devolve to personal attack. > >If my expressed anger precipitated these ad hominem attacks, I sincerely apologize. I would hope that we could deal with differences with good humor and civility. There is so much to be done, and it will require all of us to meet the challenges ahead. > >Bob Bob, I'd just like to point out that the picture of his house is from his own website... coldren.net its on the front page. He put it online. I just linked it. There is some implied consent there. The cop got your home picture from the county tax assessors office. From Sistersara at aol.com Thu Aug 2 00:49:41 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 2 01:03:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako Message-ID: In a message dated 8/1/2007 8:49:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: In fact, drumroll please, the offending data was provided by...Sistersara! To wit (and please notice that Sistersara is *responding*to my kvetching: and yes -- a check for 160 something was delivered by the AA Board at that event, and some of the money was advertised in a PR release as coming from AIF. And that was the emphases of the Press releases of the period, resulting in articles that credited AIF with the big check. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 01:21:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Matthew Baya (matt@baya.net)) Date: Thu Aug 2 01:34:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33b5e8f6b2799f5f63db404c31adc05b@www.antiochians.org> FYI - Isle Moon posted the final AIF report about a month ago. You can read it here: http://www.antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=18747 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 01:49:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 02:02:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5e7d78302d6916a6ec33a76bbde4f436@antiochians.org> >Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. > >Mark P. '71 >He started it! > >I guess I'll just stand here and get purged instead, eh, Mark? > >Folks, > >I can laugh at the image of me as a wizard, I can rankle at being compared to Tom Delay, and I still roll on the floor when I see the bunny with the pancake on its head. But I'm more than a little uncomfortable with the ad hominems directed toward David. My burning anger comes from the fact that there are loud and powerful alumni who would be very happy if people like me just dried up and blew away. I take this ceaseless complaining about -- oh, let's call it post-'73 alumni -- very personally. Speaking only for myself, that's where the urge to shine some light on one of the our harshest critics comes from. If it has gone too far, well then it should stop. However. I defend my highlighting of J. David's odious plans to commercialize the campus, which he posted up himself. People need to see where these ideas are coming from -- the ideas and the presumed financial support for these ideas that give Chancellor Murdock the courage to jackhandle the trustees into destroying the college. Especially when -- after proposing a completely fanciful legal process by which the closure might be stopped and the university re-organized -- David's ideological friends levy the charge of murder against me. Me, some schmuck with a keyboard and a few ideas, has managed to tap into a huge, festering boil of hatred toward me, my friends, years and years of Antiochians dehumanized and ridiculed in the New York Times as toxic. Damn right he started it first. Political purges are ugly and that is what is underway. Art, Toni, call off your dogs, be they in the president's office or in some northern-central state. If you're serious about having a college to complain about in four years, stop stonewalling, stop attacking, stop hating. You are not going to have it all your way. I understand there's a letter that's been sent to the Board of Trustees. Reading it and giving it the respect it deserves would be step one toward getting the great mass of alumni to work with you. Or, you could just continue hating and get together in 2012 in the Livermore St. Starbucks and mourn the college. Alan Benard, '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 01:51:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 02:04:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1aa6297d25c0ea182fbd1778f189d30d@antiochians.org> >In a message dated 8/1/2007 8:49:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: > >In fact, drumroll please, the offending data was provided by...Sistersara! > >To wit (and please notice that Sistersara is *responding*to my kvetching: > > > >and yes -- a check for 160 something was delivered by the AA Board at that >event, and some of the money was advertised in a PR release as coming from >AIF. And that was the emphases of the Press releases of the period, resulting >in articles that credited AIF with the big check. I guess so, but maybe you and Katy should chat. Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 01:59:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 02:12:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <2c1ce6e0f2a4ef58256ce7f758884774@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <6be3c087bad0906fce46d0b33b102656@www.antiochians.org> It's somewhat amazing, the peaks and valleys of these discussions. One day, there'll be some fantastic information and amusing tangents, the next, comparing Antioch College to Terri Schiavo and advice to "not mess with hackers" cause they'll dig things up. I suppose, in a way, it's nice to see such "toxicity" bridging generation gaps. But both of you have had good, interesting discussions and do so 90% of the time. You'll ruin it in our eyes if you resort to this namecalling. From dkaplan at nehomemag.com Thu Aug 2 05:36:48 2007 From: dkaplan at nehomemag.com (Dan Kaplan - New England Home magazine) Date: Thu Aug 2 05:50:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former trustees call for bold action In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005101c7d4e8$aa023100$5d7ad9a6@DKAPLAN> FROM THE DAYTON DAILY NEWS Former Antioch trustees want 'bold' action By Stephanie Irwin Gottschlich Staff Writer Wednesday, August 01, 2007 YELLOW SPRINGS - Seven former Antioch University trustees are appealing to the current board to take a series of "bold" actions at an emergency board meeting later this month, including merging Antioch College with Antioch University McGregor and creating a separate board for the combined school. In a July 28 letter to board members obtained by the Dayton Daily News, the former trustees said that the college will not successfully reopen unless the board demonstrates its commitment to doing so with "actions no less bold than those it has already taken." Those actions include: Merge the college with Antioch University McGregor, the adult learning institution that offers mostly master's degrees, also located in Yellow Springs. Create a separate board of trustees, with one university trustee appointed as chair, responsible for both the college and McGregor. Ensure that it has representatives for alumni, faculty, staff, Yellow Springs, students, alumni, major donors and include "luminaries in higher education." Empowering the new college board to meet specific fundraising and planning goals for the college's reopening, and to hire and fire the college President. Launch a development campaign sufficient to cover major capital improvements and competitive faculty wages and establish an endowment of at least $100 million for the college. Explore viable alternatives to closing the college through consulting turnaround experts in higher education. Outline plans over the next six months for reopening the college and sustaining it. Other actions the former trustees requested include putting alumni on the new institution's board who could immediately and publicly pledge large sums to the college. "The main point is 'Go ahead and do something that everyone thinks should happen,' " said Dan Kaplan, one of the trustees who signed the letter, in a separate interview Tuesday. Kaplan served on the university board from 1995 until 2006, and as chair from 2002 until 2005. "There's an upside to taking a kind of bold step that's really an act of good faith with all the stakeholders," he said. In a response letter on Wednesday, current board chair Arthur J. Zucker said the board will carefully evaluate the letter's "creative suggestions" while "also considering the financial implications." "We will continue our due diligence through careful review and deliberation, balanced with the need for urgency of all issues around the suspension of operations at the College, including those related to governance," Zucker wrote. Zucker added the board voted in June to create a governance committee to look at the governance issue, and it will report to the board in October. "That we have expedited this process speaks to the board's commitment to tackle the governance issue," Zucker wrote. "It is important that everyone also understands that (university Chancellor) Toni (Murdock) and I are both strongly committed to resolving the issue of governance honestly and realistically and professionally." Kaplan and former trustees Barbara Winslow and Laura Markham wrote the letter. Since then, at least four more have added their names to it - including two additional previous board chairs - and others are planning to sign it, according to Winslow. Winslow, the longest-serving board member at 12 years of service, stepped down a month ago following the board's June 12 decision to close the college in 2008. Winslow had reached the maximum term limit allowed for trustees. The letter joins a movement to make Antioch College autonomous - either outside the university system, or within it - in order for it to survive. The Antioch College Alumni Association, hoping to negotiate with the trustees for many of the items in the July 28 petition letter, is serving as an agent for $625,000 in cash and pledges called the College Revival Fund targeted at keeping the college open. Rick Daily, treasurer for the fund and for the alumni association, said "in addition there are expressions of interest in contributing to a revived, self-governed Antioch College that are in excess of $2 million." College President Steve Lawry, who announced last week he will resign at year-end, meanwhile has increased his call for a separate board responsible for advocating sand raising money solely for the college. "And we're saying [Lawry's] actually right," Kaplan said. "Let's bite the bullet and do it. Time is of the essence here. Move forward boldly here or wake up in five years to nothing." Zucker told the former trustees in his letter the board must fulfill its fiduciary responsibility to the entire university, but has a related commitment "to ensure that our college students receive the education and undergraduate experience they deserve." Contact this reporter at (937) 225-7404 or sgottschlich@DaytonDailyNews.com. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 2 09:41:12 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 2 09:54:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Lawry leaving in January In-Reply-To: <5e89847af719c9bf0cb0095014671a90@www.antiochians.org> References: <5e89847af719c9bf0cb0095014671a90@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Bob..he also did theater and directed plays...I used to hang out with him. Duffy From aadole at adelphia.net Thu Aug 2 13:02:08 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Thu Aug 2 10:20:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <3ddff152686f82555207f859f627cf17@antiochians.org> Message-ID: On 8/1/07 11:57 AM, "ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)" wrote: > Cary is Trustee Paula Triechler's husband and met with faculty during reunion. > It's difficult to say what power AAUP really has. My sense is that even > institutions that have been sanctioned by AAUP have not suffered much. I > believe they are still investigating Antioch Seattle. > > When Chancellor Murdock was President, the faculty had a vote of no confidence > due to her management style. Then Chancellor Jim Hall sent out Presidents > Danley and Craiglow to "investigate." The conclusion was reached that nothing > should be done..and nothing was... > > > Callie > >> On 7/31/07 9:21 PM, "Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)" >> wrote: >> >>> The only legal fund set up to oppose the Antioch University Board Of >>> Trustees >>> closedown decision mandating Antioch College, Ohio, be closed down in July >>> 2008, is the fund set up by the faculty group opposing the closedown. >> Jane, Yazz, and other eagles--Has the Alum Board consulted the American >> Association of University Professors? AAUP President Carey Nelson is an >> alum, incidentally. >> >> Art Dole '46 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alumni-chat mailing list >> Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >> http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >> Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > > I thought Dave Apter was Paula Treichler's husband. Both Apter and Nelson have written in the Chronicle recently in support of the College. In my opinion AAUP censure has probably not hurt cited colleges monetarily. For instance, Husson College here in Maine seems to be flourishing. On the other hand when a committee of academics publishes the dirty linen in its official journal ("Academe") it certainly tarnishes your reputation among scholars and probably many foundations. A bigger story may be that professors probably are losing ground in their struggles with corporate minded boards of trustees. And I would be heartened if Antioch University were censored! (A signal that Katy Jako was right, bless her. ) Art Dole '46 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 2 10:08:35 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 2 10:21:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former trustees call for bold action In-Reply-To: <005101c7d4e8$aa023100$5d7ad9a6@DKAPLAN> Message-ID: Nicely done Dan. Welcome aboard "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "Dan Kaplan - New England Home magazine" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "'Alumni Chat List'" >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former trustees call for bold action >Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 05:36:48 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc9-f5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 2 >Aug 2007 02:37:01 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 8009A60D3612;Thu, 2 Aug 2007 05:50:14 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from >smtpout02-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net(smtpout02-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net >[64.202.165.192])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 57BA860D3602for >; Thu, 2 Aug 2007 05:50:12 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (qmail 31056 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2007 09:36:56 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO >smtpauth05.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net)(64.202.165.99)by >smtpout02-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with SMTP;2 Aug 2007 09:36:56 >-0000 >Received: (qmail 12783 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2007 09:36:56 -0000 >Received: from unknown (166.217.122.93)by >smtpauth05.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.99) with ESMTP;02 Aug >2007 09:36:55 -0000 >X-Message-Info: >txF49lGdW42Br3PFuO2lgVIwCXma4MbEXteXZGeJVhPOPMw7NW40G7msXrKdQUnn >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 >Thread-Index: AcfU5szW1e34quz+Q+248HxzeWiQqAAAZUkg >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2007 09:37:01.0157 (UTC) >FILETIME=[AD7E1150:01C7D4E8] > > >FROM THE DAYTON DAILY NEWS > >Former Antioch trustees want 'bold' action > >By Stephanie Irwin Gottschlich > >Staff Writer > >Wednesday, August 01, 2007 > >YELLOW SPRINGS - Seven former Antioch University trustees are appealing to >the current board to take a series of "bold" actions at an emergency board >meeting later this month, including merging Antioch College with Antioch >University McGregor and creating a separate board for the combined school. > >In a July 28 letter to board members obtained by the Dayton Daily News, the >former trustees said that the college will not successfully reopen unless >the board demonstrates its commitment to doing so with "actions no less >bold >than those it has already taken." > >Those actions include: > >Merge the college with Antioch University McGregor, the adult learning >institution that offers mostly master's degrees, also located in Yellow >Springs. > >Create a separate board of trustees, with one university trustee appointed >as chair, responsible for both the college and McGregor. Ensure that it has >representatives for alumni, faculty, staff, Yellow Springs, students, >alumni, major donors and include "luminaries in higher education." > >Empowering the new college board to meet specific fundraising and planning >goals for the college's reopening, and to hire and fire the college >President. > >Launch a development campaign sufficient to cover major capital >improvements >and competitive faculty wages and establish an endowment of at least $100 >million for the college. > >Explore viable alternatives to closing the college through consulting >turnaround experts in higher education. > >Outline plans over the next six months for reopening the college and >sustaining it. > >Other actions the former trustees requested include putting alumni on the >new institution's board who could immediately and publicly pledge large >sums >to the college. > >"The main point is 'Go ahead and do something that everyone thinks should >happen,' " said Dan Kaplan, one of the trustees who signed the letter, in a >separate interview Tuesday. > >Kaplan served on the university board from 1995 until 2006, and as chair >from 2002 until 2005. "There's an upside to taking a kind of bold step >that's really an act of good faith with all the stakeholders," he said. > >In a response letter on Wednesday, current board chair Arthur J. Zucker >said >the board will carefully evaluate the letter's "creative suggestions" while >"also considering the financial implications." > >"We will continue our due diligence through careful review and >deliberation, >balanced with the need for urgency of all issues around the suspension of >operations at the College, including those related to governance," Zucker >wrote. > >Zucker added the board voted in June to create a governance committee to >look at the governance issue, and it will report to the board in October. > >"That we have expedited this process speaks to the board's commitment to >tackle the governance issue," Zucker wrote. "It is important that everyone >also understands that (university Chancellor) Toni (Murdock) and I are both >strongly committed to resolving the issue of governance honestly and >realistically and professionally." > >Kaplan and former trustees Barbara Winslow and Laura Markham wrote the >letter. Since then, at least four more have added their names to it - >including two additional previous board chairs - and others are planning to >sign it, according to Winslow. Winslow, the longest-serving board member at >12 years of service, stepped down a month ago following the board's June 12 >decision to close the college in 2008. Winslow had reached the maximum term >limit allowed for trustees. > >The letter joins a movement to make Antioch College autonomous - either >outside the university system, or within it - in order for it to survive. > >The Antioch College Alumni Association, hoping to negotiate with the >trustees for many of the items in the July 28 petition letter, is serving >as >an agent for $625,000 in cash and pledges called the College Revival Fund >targeted at keeping the college open. > >Rick Daily, treasurer for the fund and for the alumni association, said "in >addition there are expressions of interest in contributing to a revived, >self-governed Antioch College that are in excess of $2 million." > >College President Steve Lawry, who announced last week he will resign at >year-end, meanwhile has increased his call for a separate board responsible >for advocating sand raising money solely for the college. > >"And we're saying [Lawry's] actually right," Kaplan said. "Let's bite the >bullet and do it. Time is of the essence here. Move forward boldly here or >wake up in five years to nothing." > >Zucker told the former trustees in his letter the board must fulfill its >fiduciary responsibility to the entire university, but has a related >commitment "to ensure that our college students receive the education and >undergraduate experience they deserve." > > >Contact this reporter at (937) 225-7404 or >sgottschlich@DaytonDailyNews.com. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From aadole at adelphia.net Thu Aug 2 13:09:28 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Thu Aug 2 10:27:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <72397e61e5a2c5c33fb5aec6fd25f0bf@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: On 8/1/07 12:37 PM, "bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)" wrote: > This is beginning to sound more and more like the Terry Schaivo melodrama. > The patient is a death's door and may be brain dead, the person with legal > authority says "pull the plug", and there is a chorus of others saying "Save > Terry." Raising money. Trying to get judicial relief. And Bob playing the > part of Tom DeLay. > > We all know what happened in the end. > > > David, > > This analogy gets a D-. The College is not brain dead, and is fully capable > of sustaining all vital functions, as demonstrated by the engagement of some > of the brightest and most capable students that Antioch has had, the faculty's > delivery of a complex and labor-intensive curriculum in spite of not having > the resources promised to do so, the desire of a couple hundred students to > return to and to attend Antioch this fall, in spite of its announced closing, > three Fulbrights last year, etc. Those with the legal authority to say "pull > the plug" have done so as the outcome of a protracted set of strategies to > remove fiscal and programmatic control from the campus, to create a permanent > deficit and concomitant dependency, to undermine and restrain leadership, and > to "cleanse the ghosts". Those working to save the College are seeking (to > build on the analogy) to reverse the iatrogenic diseases born of its > institutional context (read that "governance"). As for playing the part > of Tom > DeLay, I'm not sure that it's entirely clear that the faculty as a whole is > the driving force in seeking judicial relief. I have very little to do with > it. So it's a two-fer -- you disrespect me, AND you disrespect the faculty > and its leadership. The price paid for cleverness, I suppose. > > Meanwhile, those who sincerely want to believe the worst about Antioch > College, who have for decades wanted to believe the worst, are happily engaged > in gloating about the difficulties and inventing clever analogies of decline > and demise. Wouldn't a crossword puzzle be more satisfying, David? > > Bob > > > > Good reply, Bob. As I have said here before, among the stakeholders the faculty and staff have some power. They execute the curriculum. We alumni should be their cheerleaders. Art Dole '46 From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 2 10:02:46 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 2 10:29:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: <04c9b344fe8e3842a45a6cfcd70bc073@antiochians.org> References: <04c9b344fe8e3842a45a6cfcd70bc073@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Mister Meatloaf aka Alan Benard... you do get a tiny apology. In the forwarding around between Sis sara, Jack Cobb (Katy's brother) and Katy there was some confusion. The important message that Katy wanted to be cear about was that out of the 1.5 million dollars that she was holding.......virtually none went to the "monster"........which would be that group's perception, eh? Duffy From jdavid at coldren.net Thu Aug 2 11:44:58 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Thu Aug 2 11:59:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <397ebb0fee57d286dc0c87850036edc3@antiochians.org> References: <58751e9ddb62c09b2076dafa68ed839e@antiochians.org> <397ebb0fee57d286dc0c87850036edc3@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <00cc01c7d51c$14c84be0$3e58e3a0$@net> For a more complete discussion of the concept for an Intergenerational Learning Environment (available as a large .pdf file), please contact JDavid@Coldren.net. Thanks for the plug, Alan. As for being a man of stature, I confess that the physical conditions that must have led you to that characterization of me have now, after four surgeries, left me alive but confined to a wheelchair. Thanks for your understanding and compassion, Mr. Benard. J. David Coldren '65 This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete them from your system. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com) Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:36 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 As well as being a man of stature, J. David is a dreamer. Here's J. David's redevelopment scheme for the college, complete with fresh ideas about union busting and outsourcing: >Outsource as much of the food services, maintenance, security, landscaping, etc. to the new retail restaurants and other businesses as possible. One hand washes the other. Students will love giving a cut of their room and board fees to multi-national corporations: >The income streams for leasing space to the ALC management company (Marriott, Hyatt, and others are experts in this business now) and the rent from student residential housing in the ALC (which Marriott, at least can do) will both be part of a sustainable income stream to the College. Here's the old-folks home and strip-mall part, because J. David will: >Provide adequate, attractive retail spaces on long-term leases >We also find a nationally recognized developer of assisted living communities. ... They are asked to imagine a clean slate of structures around the core described above and to build clusters of residential homes and retail stores anchored by a state-of-the-art residential assisted living center (services from adult day care, independent living, and assisted living, to Alzheimer's care, nursing home and hospice) and, if necessary, a clinic. The assisted living center (ALC) structure would also house first-year students with all the dining facilities required for both populations: table service for the seasoned citizens and cafeteria service for the students and the seniors' family and guests. That'll make the little shits behave -- make 'em eat with grandma! Anyone's grandma. J. David, no, this is not passing "the snicker factor," nor the smell test. From jdavid at coldren.net Thu Aug 2 11:58:11 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Thu Aug 2 12:12:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00d301c7d51d$edab68b0$c9023a10$@net> Bob, Thanks for your kind words. I reciprocate in my respect for you. I enjoyed our visits in my home. Don't worry about the implied threats, I've had actual threats (I believe they called them contracts) against me for years by professional criminals and gangbangers. I just take life as it comes and try to influence the future in tiny ways. J. David Coldren '65 This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete them from your system. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu) Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:47 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. Mark P. '71 He started it! I guess I'll just stand here and get purged instead, eh, Mark? Folks, I can laugh at the image of me as a wizard, I can rankle at being compared to Tom Delay, and I still roll on the floor when I see the bunny with the pancake on its head. But I'm more than a little uncomfortable with the ad hominems directed toward David. I've known David since we were both undergraduates, and though most often I find myself 180 degrees at odds with his perspectives, I've always respected David, have valued my conversations and interactions with him, and most of the time have learned something from him. Like most good Antiochians, David challenges assumptions, reframes the discourse, tweaks the posers and pretenders and applies critical reason to the conventional wisdoms. Sometimes he makes me mad as hell, and pushes me beyond civility, but his contributions to this discourse ought to be as thoroughly and critically examined and evaluated as any and all others. When I see David's house posted along with the very personal stuff, I feel compelled to respond. The only time I saw an image of my home in an e-mail message, it was from a cop, angry that Mumia Abu Jamal was going to be permitted to speak at Antioch's commencement. The words accompanying the image said, "I know where you live, I've seen you in your bedroom window, you're dead meat." The image was such an unimaginable invasion and threat that it still haunts me. I would not like for anyone else to experience that sense of violation of personal space, and I would not like to see the dialogue devolve to personal attack. If my expressed anger precipitated these ad hominem attacks, I sincerely apologize. I would hope that we could deal with differences with good humor and civility. There is so much to be done, and it will require all of us to meet the challenges ahead. Bob _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 12:05:23 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 12:18:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <00cc01c7d51c$14c84be0$3e58e3a0$@net> Message-ID: >For a more complete discussion of the concept for an Intergenerational >Learning Environment (available as a large .pdf file), please contact >JDavid@Coldren.net. > >Thanks for the plug, Alan. > >As for being a man of stature, I confess that the physical conditions that >must have led you to that characterization of me have now, after four >surgeries, left me alive but confined to a wheelchair. Thanks for your >understanding and compassion, Mr. Benard. > >J. David Coldren '65 Well, now we all feel sorry for you and will cheer you on as you slander and attack people. Find another way to deal with your anger, Mr. Coldren. Alan Benard From sjr5 at nyu.edu Thu Aug 2 13:25:14 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Thu Aug 2 13:38:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: bridge collapse in Miinneapolis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for off-topic, but I hope those of you in Minneapolis/Minnesota didn't have any family or friends caught in that bridge collapse. Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." From ilse1 at comcast.net Thu Aug 2 13:30:53 2007 From: ilse1 at comcast.net (ilse moon) Date: Thu Aug 2 13:44:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Antioch References: Message-ID: <01a301c7d52a$e11ceb20$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Re: AntiochStephanie, I have been reading your articles as they reach me via forwards. I do thank you and appreciate your continuing focus on Antioch. I would feel more sanguine about the reopening of the college if the BOT communications mentioned commitment to an undergraduate college opening at least within 2 to 3 years with a wide-ranging co-op program, a liberal arts undergraduate residential program, and a tenured faculty. There seems to be a widespread view that tenure protects a bunch of lazy layabouts. It was designed, and often has, protected faculty with unpopular political views. Thanks for listening. Ilse '53 in Sarasota Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephanie Gottschlich To: ilse moon Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Antioch Ilse, I'm going to start sending a link to my stories when I write them to the Antiochians website so alumni NOT in Dayton, Ohio can now they exist and go read them. I've done about 15 stories since June 12, and will continue to follow ALL of the developments. I've made that commitment. Thanks for reading, all the way from New York (if that's your location.) Stephanie Gottschlich Stephanie Irwin Gottschlich Higher Education Reporter Dayton Daily News (937) 225-7404 a.. New email: sgottschlich@daytondailynews.com b.. Old email (still works): sirwin@daytondailynews.com 1611 S. Main Street Dayton, OH 45409 On 8/2/07 12:00 PM, "ilse moon" wrote: Thank you for your great article in the August 1 issue of the Dayton Daily News about the letter from the former Antioch trustees. Wish it were picked up by the NY Times. Ilse Moon, Antioch 1953 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/931 - Release Date: 8/1/2007 4:53 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 14:07:10 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 14:20:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Mister Meatloaf aka Alan Benard... you do get a tiny apology. > >In the forwarding around between Sis sara, Jack Cobb (Katy's brother) >and Katy there was some confusion. > >The important message that Katy wanted to be cear about was that out of >the 1.5 million dollars that she was holding.......virtually none >went to the "monster"........which would be that group's perception, eh? > >Duffy Hugs for Duffy!! Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 14:17:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 14:30:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Chronicle Article Message-ID: http://chronicle.com/news/article/2794/former-trustees-of-antioch-propose-a-governance-shake-up-to-save-college From Sistersara at aol.com Thu Aug 2 14:19:11 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 2 14:32:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: bridge collapse in Miinneapolis Message-ID: In a message dated 8/2/2007 12:25:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, sjr5@nyu.edu writes: Sorry for off-topic, but I hope those of you in Minneapolis/Minnesota didn't have any family or friends caught in that bridge collapse. No, I watched it on TV just as everyone else has done. Bridge is located about a mile from my home, and is a major piece of infrastructure. This is a totally fascinating story -- not so much because of what has been the focus of the TV reports, but because of major differences in the political philosophy regarding Government responsibility for transportation. Just two months ago the Governor zeroed out all the Transit projects in the Legislature's major transit plan (both rebuilding highways and bridges, and speeding up the build out of a Light Rail system), The Republicans are against transit as a public asset, but transit polls highest among voter concerns, and last November was a major factor in the DFL regaining strong control in the Minnesota Legislature. Minnesota Public Radio has already broadcast a seminar with civil engineers regarding how to rebuild. It is going to be fascinating if you know the players and the history of all this. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From ilse1 at comcast.net Thu Aug 2 14:31:09 2007 From: ilse1 at comcast.net (ilse moon) Date: Thu Aug 2 14:44:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: bridge collapse in Miinneapolis References: Message-ID: <023a01c7d533$4c50a370$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Still off topic. This is an eerie reminder of our bay area bridge collapse in 1980. One report is at http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/bridges/skyway.htm Thirty five people were killed, it took ages for the beautiful replacement bridge to be completed and most of us think about the collapse every we travel over this connection from the Sarasota area to the Tampa airport. Ilse Moon '53 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Re: bridge collapse in Miinneapolis > > In a message dated 8/2/2007 12:25:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > sjr5@nyu.edu writes: > > Sorry for off-topic, but I hope those of you in Minneapolis/Minnesota > didn't > have any family or friends caught in that bridge collapse. > > > > > No, I watched it on TV just as everyone else has done. Bridge is located > about a mile from my home, and is a major piece of infrastructure. This > is a > totally fascinating story -- not so much because of what has been the > focus of > the TV reports, but because of major differences in the political > philosophy > regarding Government responsibility for transportation. Just two months > ago > the Governor zeroed out all the Transit projects in the Legislature's > major > transit plan (both rebuilding highways and bridges, and speeding up the > build > out of a Light Rail system), The Republicans are against transit as a > public asset, but transit polls highest among voter concerns, and last > November > was a major factor in the DFL regaining strong control in the Minnesota > Legislature. Minnesota Public Radio has already broadcast a seminar with > civil > engineers regarding how to rebuild. It is going to be fascinating if you > know > the players and the history of all this. > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/931 - Release Date: 8/1/2007 > 4:53 PM > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 14:38:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jack (jack1@mac.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 14:51:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <004f01c7d52d$dd483510$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: Whoa- Everybody on this chat just needs to take all that personal frustration and despair, stuff them into a tight little ball for a good solid week, drink 15 cups of coffee in three hours, stay up for two days straight, and THEN post their thoughts. It worked for me when I was editing the Record, and it can work here too, I just know it. - "Then I realized they were stronger than we. They have the strength, the strength to do that. If I had 10 divisions of those men, then our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling,without passion, without judgment." Colonel Walter E. Kurtz From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 14:44:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 14:57:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wow... being in the Pacific Daylight Time Zone leaves me way behind. What I am discouraged by is not the personal acrimony and animosity, I have never truly believed that people of goodwill can work everything out because I find that very few people have much in the way of goodwill. I do believe that all organizations suffer idealogical and politcal struggles to define themselves and frequently the wealthy and powerful win those fights. How much harder then, for Antioch where wealth and power are a requirement for survival and we have developed a critique of wealth that some maintain for the rest of their lives and some either lose entirely or it evolves toward pragmatic acceptance of post-scarcity capitalism if not an outright embrace of the inequality and injustice that system employs. Seems to me its a matter of scale and therefore not one of purity. Is it possible for anyone who drives a car on a daily basis can not claim to be anti-capitalist or an environmentalist, let alone an eco-anarcho-collectivist? We can claim to be purer than others because we don't like the system that more or less forces us to drive everyday. Yet how many make the sacrafice? In the Northwest the Toyota Prius Hybrid is the number 2 selling car. Period. Across all vehicle classes the Prius is number one in new car sales. Oregon and Washington have just passed Renewable Portfolio Standards for electric utilities and everyone here likes to hug and kiss and pat ourselves on the back for how green we are. In fact a Prius is still an internal combustion engine and it burns gasoline and the plethora of vinyl and plastics that make the car light are all petroleum derivatives and (at least in Stumptown) almost everyone of them has some kind of environmental sticker on them. RPS standards ignore the fact that windpower is intermittant at best and that the nation lacks the infrastructure for transmission and storage of a resource that only works 33% of the time. Etc. Long winded point, I don't dis David for being relatively rich. I don't dis David for being a property developer building some gorgeous houses, I don't even dis David for giving money to Repulicans ( I myself will be voting to re-elect Gordon Smith to the senate ) or being involved in criminal justice. These are all activities that can have positive side-effects and are time specific (people change). I do dis David for not caring a whit about the faculty and staff of the college and I think he believes they are in fact part and parcel of the "problem" at Antioch. It does get tetchy when a real estate developer proposes real estate development as part of the solution, but I am not a developer but also think some creative leasing of the land assets would be good for revenue (starting with leasing the crematorium to a back office credit processing firm or some other such company that needs 65Ksqft). It is not neccesairly a conflict of interest for David to talk about what is apparently his area of expertise. I remember when Robert Davis came to Antioch, one of my best friends ripped on him about Seaside being a gated community to let wealth whites escape from blacks and for using plans by Leon Krier an architect who wrote some questionable words about the architecture of Rudolph Hess. Robert Davis is now doing a low income housing project in Santa Fe or Taos. But Alan I agree w/you and have been yelling from the rooftops that just because I want to Antioch in the 1990s does not mean my education was less than pre-Strike folks, just different. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 14:57:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 15:10:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5dd919f662da556735bc142a20bb34d8@www.antiochians.org> You are voting for Gordon Smith????? From matt at baya.net Thu Aug 2 15:04:42 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Thu Aug 2 15:12:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <5dd919f662da556735bc142a20bb34d8@www.antiochians.org> References: <5dd919f662da556735bc142a20bb34d8@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <44D8DF75-4EA0-4D41-8AF8-9B4AF65A9EBB@baya.net> AIGH! Religion & Politics. Take it off list please! -Matt On Aug 2, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com) wrote: > You are voting for Gordon Smith????? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 15:18:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 15:31:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] bridge collapse in Miinneapolis In-Reply-To: <023a01c7d533$4c50a370$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Message-ID: I don't think asking after friends and family is ever off-topic. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 15:52:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 16:05:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <44D8DF75-4EA0-4D41-8AF8-9B4AF65A9EBB@baya.net> Message-ID: >AIGH! Religion & Politics. Take it off list please! > >-Matt > >On Aug 2, 2007, at 2:57 PM, Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com) wrote: > >>You are voting for Gordon Smith????? >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! Hi Matt, To clarify your opinion on what is acceptable posting: One may mention one's own politics, but others may not respond to these comments? Also, discussion of politics is not okay here, per you? Reposting of others' articles is not permitted, even if they have given permission since they are having trouble accessing this forum. I support an open and inclusive atmosphere on this forum. To go further, I support eliciting of ideas from others. However farfetched and annoying you may find other peoples' thoughts and ideas. A bullying type of gang atmosphere on a forum can discourage the more timid of us from contributing. It would be sad to see only the most aggressive of us dominating the movement to save the school. Jane Slater Class of '80 Ashland, OR From ilse1 at comcast.net Thu Aug 2 16:26:27 2007 From: ilse1 at comcast.net (ilse moon) Date: Thu Aug 2 16:40:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] architecture Message-ID: <029301c7d543$67d1db40$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Travis said "...I remember when Robert Davis came to Antioch, one of my best friends ripped on him about Seaside being a gated community to let wealth whites escape from blacks and for using plans by Leon Krier an architect who wrote some questionable words about the architecture of Rudolph Hess. Robert Davis is now doing a low income housing project in Santa Fe or Taos." Wolf R?diger Hess, the architect who died in 2001, was the son of Rudolph Hess the prominent Nazi. An admirer of Adolf Hitler and a fixture of the post-war German far-right, he was also an outspoken critic of the investigation of his father's 1987 death. [from Wikipedia] Seaside Florida was designed by Miami architects Andres Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk, principals in the DPZ company. When I visited, shortly after it was built, Seaside was not a gated community, but it did look like an artificial movie set - beautiful, but not very hospitable. No funk allowed. I have tried twice to contact their 'contact us' site to find out how many of the homes are owner-occupied - no reply either time. Seaside followed Duany's ideas of a walkable community. Founder of the New Urbanism, Duany was hired as a consultant here in Sarasota to help plan a revitalization of our town. Local powers have decreed that new communities follow the walkable design. It is unclear how successful these will be. The company has designed and built many communities - check out the company on Google. From matt at baya.net Thu Aug 2 16:33:45 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Thu Aug 2 16:41:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > To clarify your opinion on what is acceptable posting: One may > mention one's own politics, but others may not respond to these > comments? First off, I'm not the forum/list police, I was just stating my opinion. You are welcome to ignore it. My message was meant for you, Travis and anyone else who felt so moved as to write about their support or opposition of candidates I couldn't care less about. I'd say the same thing about a message about Barak Obama vs Hilary Clinton etc. But again... just my opinion, you clearly disagree so feel free to ignore me, many wise people have :) > Also, discussion of politics is not okay here, per you? All I was saying was that I would prefer it if people could please don't get into a debate about non-Antioch politics on this list. I don't know who Gordon Smith is or what his politics are and really I don't care. If you and Travis want to argue things you are welcome to, i was just hoping you'd take it off list. Again, it was just my opinion, you are welcome to start a debate on this or evangelize the pro's & cons of various politcal issues and candidates, or the Unitarian faith vs Bahai if you want to. It's just that there's so much traffic on these lists right now I'd prefer stuff that has no relevance to Antioch not be added to the list. > Reposting of others' articles is not permitted, even if they have > given permission since they are having trouble accessing this forum. Are you referring to the posting of Yazz Allen's post that you posted here? No one said you weren't allowed to post that here, least to my knowledge. What I believe was said was that A) Ideally, the author of a work should be around to read & respond to responses to that work, and B) That since that article included copies of personal e-mail messages it was a violation of trust of the author of those messages. I never said you had to delete it, I suggested that, with Yazz's permission, you remove Ellen's e-mail messages. I don't see making suggestions on how to edit a post as censorship, but perhaps that's just me. > I support an open and inclusive atmosphere on this forum. To go > further, I support eliciting of ideas from others. However > farfetched and annoying you may find other peoples' thoughts and > ideas. I did indeed express my opinions about Yazz earlier. However I didn't say his posts shouldn't be here, in fact what I said was if his works were going to be posted here that I wanted him to be here to read the responses and respond to them as he saw fit. Again, this was my opinion, if I came across as the list master or someone in authority stating 'Thou Shalt Not...' I apologize. Ask anyone who has asked me to ban a person or edit someone elses post here, I am not one who prefers to EVER pick up that baton of authority if at all possible. If there ever comes a time where such actions are needed I'm going to suggest that a 'Forum CSB' be formed and let others make those decisions since I don't want to be in a power role here just because I help run the server. > A bullying type of gang atmosphere on a forum can discourage the > more timid of us from contributing. It would be sad to see only the > most aggressive of us dominating the movement to save the school. I apologize again if my post seemed oppressive. I was just trying to avoid more e-mail. Not trying to be a bully. I'm just tired and what I meant as a more humorous (AIGH! OFF TOPIC!) type post was clearly read as the list police laying down the law, so therefore me thinks it's time I go back to being behind the scenes again. Go forth and debate. Have fun. -Matt '92 From jdavid at coldren.net Thu Aug 2 16:40:50 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Thu Aug 2 16:55:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006601c7d545$6a0c5000$3e24f000$@net> Travis, Is it possible that you mean Albert Speer instead of Rudolf Hess? J. David Coldren '65 This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete them from your system. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com) Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:44 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 Wow... being in the Pacific Daylight Time Zone leaves me way behind. What I am discouraged by is not the personal acrimony and animosity, I have never truly believed that people of goodwill can work everything out because I find that very few people have much in the way of goodwill. I do believe that all organizations suffer idealogical and politcal struggles to define themselves and frequently the wealthy and powerful win those fights. How much harder then, for Antioch where wealth and power are a requirement for survival and we have developed a critique of wealth that some maintain for the rest of their lives and some either lose entirely or it evolves toward pragmatic acceptance of post-scarcity capitalism if not an outright embrace of the inequality and injustice that system employs. Seems to me its a matter of scale and therefore not one of purity. Is it possible for anyone who drives a car on a daily basis can not claim to be anti-capitalist or an environmentalist, let alone an eco-anarcho-collectivist? We can claim to be purer than others because we don't like the system that more or less forces us to drive everyday. Yet how many make the sacrafice? In the Northwest the Toyota Prius Hybrid is the number 2 selling car. Period. Across all vehicle classes the Prius is number one in new car sales. Oregon and Washington have just passed Renewable Portfolio Standards for electric utilities and everyone here likes to hug and kiss and pat ourselves on the back for how green we are. In fact a Prius is still an internal combustion engine and it burns gasoline and the plethora of vinyl and plastics that make the car light are all petroleum derivatives and (at least in Stumptown) almost everyone of them has some kind of environmental sticker on them. RPS standards ignore the fact that windpower is intermittant at best and that the nation lacks the infrastructure for transmission and storage of a resource that only works 33% of the time. Etc. Long winded point, I don't dis David for being relatively rich. I don't dis David for being a property developer building some gorgeous houses, I don't even dis David for giving money to Repulicans ( I myself will be voting to re-elect Gordon Smith to the senate ) or being involved in criminal justice. These are all activities that can have positive side-effects and are time specific (people change). I do dis David for not caring a whit about the faculty and staff of the college and I think he believes they are in fact part and parcel of the "problem" at Antioch. It does get tetchy when a real estate developer proposes real estate development as part of the solution, but I am not a developer but also think some creative leasing of the land assets would be good for revenue (starting with leasing the crematorium to a back office credit processing firm or some other such company that needs 65Ksqft). It is not neccesairly a conflict of interest for David to talk about what is app arently his area of expertise. I remember when Robert Davis came to Antioch, one of my best friends ripped on him about Seaside being a gated community to let wealth whites escape from blacks and for using plans by Leon Krier an architect who wrote some questionable words about the architecture of Rudolph Hess. Robert Davis is now doing a low income housing project in Santa Fe or Taos. But Alan I agree w/you and have been yelling from the rooftops that just because I want to Antioch in the 1990s does not mean my education was less than pre-Strike folks, just different. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 16:50:12 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 17:03:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >In a message dated 8/1/2007 9:44:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: > >I am dreaming of the day when "Shakespeare Under The Stars" returns to a >place as a regional event, bringing faculty, students, community, and audience >together. And I am working to make that dream happen. I hope to see you at >the next show! I'm nominating "All's Well That Ends Well". > >-Beth R. '04 > > > >Beth, Shakespeare Under the Stars -- and I think one way or another I saw >all the plays (beginning with King John), either by being in the audience, or >sitting on the lawn and watching rehearsals. At the time Antioch had perhaps >four tenured members of the Theatre Department, but the majority of the >roles were played by professional actors from New York and other places, and they >were paid Union Scale. Students understudied, did production, dealt with >ticketing and all -- and of course made costumes and all -- but essentially it >was a full blown professional production effort. You didn't get theatre bus >tours coming in from New York, having read the Times Reviews, because >something amateur was being done. The Amphitheater was hardly an adequate >replacement for the stage of those days -- It was a seven level thrust structure >constructed of beams and platforms against the face of Main Building, that made >use of windows in the towers for entrances and exits. (this was before Main >Building was gutted and restored.) And while Main Building was never exactly >Tudor, once it got a little dark and the lighting people did their thing with >our Towers, it was totally theatrical. I always thought the amphitheater a >rather piss poor replacement for that stage. For some things it is great -- >but it was never for Shakespeare. > >I have always wondered if anyone filmed any of the plays? (no Video in >those days). My mother and father met while working in Antioch theatre in 1944 or 1945 -- he was attending Antioch on the GI Bill, she was a young war widow (her first husband had been shot down on a bombing run over Germany). I remember viewing performances staged on the front steps of Main Building. My younger brother and I once attended a night performance of /Henry IV, Part I/ -- my mother tucked us into a sleeping bag at the rear of the audience, and we were scared to hear battles and swordfights on the surrounding lawn. During my years at Antioch (1964-68), I attended every Shakespeare performance at the Ampitheatre that I could. It wasn't quite the same as seeing the plays on the front steps, but I don't remember being dissatisfied. I'm sorry to hear that the performances no longer occur, and hope they can be restored. John Hevelin '68 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 17:38:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (GC (coomansg@sfusd.edu)) Date: Thu Aug 2 17:52:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6d0b982b354eeead6760c1882ac4c37c@www.antiochians.org> Thanks, Bob, for reminding people of the importantce of maintaining a sense of humor and some civility in these discussions. Antiochians sometimes take themselves so seriously that they forget about those things. I also appreciated the reminder that we will need all of us in order to successfully meet the challenges we are now facing. We're a tiny community and every bit of energy we spend in personal attacks on one another might be better spent in search of effective solutions to the very real problems we face. Garry Coomans '74 >Let us now proceed to purge the non-ideologically pure from our midst. > >Mark P. '71 >He started it! > >I guess I'll just stand here and get purged instead, eh, Mark? > >Folks, > >I can laugh at the image of me as a wizard, I can rankle at being compared to Tom Delay, and I still roll on the floor when I see the bunny with the pancake on its head. But I'm more than a little uncomfortable with the ad hominems directed toward David. I've known David since we were both undergraduates, and though most often I find myself 180 degrees at odds with his perspectives, I've always respected David, have valued my conversations and interactions with him, and most of the time have learned something from him. Like most good Antiochians, David challenges assumptions, reframes the discourse, tweaks the posers and pretenders and applies critical reason to the conventional wisdoms. Sometimes he makes me mad as hell, and pushes me beyond civility, but his contributions to this discourse ought to be as thoroughly and critically examined and evaluated as any and all others. > >When I see David's house posted along with the very personal stuff, I feel compelled to respond. The only time I saw an image of my home in an e-mail message, it was from a cop, angry that Mumia Abu Jamal was going to be permitted to speak at Antioch's commencement. The words accompanying the image said, "I know where you live, I've seen you in your bedroom window, you're dead meat." The image was such an unimaginable invasion and threat that it still haunts me. I would not like for anyone else to experience that sense of violation of personal space, and I would not like to see the dialogue devolve to personal attack. > >If my expressed anger precipitated these ad hominem attacks, I sincerely apologize. I would hope that we could deal with differences with good humor and civility. There is so much to be done, and it will require all of us to meet the challenges ahead. > >Bob > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 17:59:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 18:12:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] architecture In-Reply-To: <029301c7d543$67d1db40$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Message-ID: <9d8def8ab51c973c8c7d99a73642d668@www.antiochians.org> Taken off-line From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 19:17:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Beth Richards (insanedeity@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 19:31:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15443f73eb5dc0a75be4161858e2fb1e@www.antiochians.org> Hi Sara, I have seen some of the archival stuff from those productions. I think it would have been a magical venue to have seen shows. I am also aware of there professional nature. Having been on co-op with the Wooster Group in New York, I know precisely how valuable observation of such professional productions are. I would welcome it back in it's original format, or in a build up to that glory. Bob, I guess I was mistaken and that Medea in Summer 2001 (clearly not Shakespeare) was produced with grant funding or from another source. This was the last Amphitheater show I was involved with, though I can't say if it was the last produced. -Beth R. '04 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 20:50:41 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 21:03:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <41776accaa8412716f66a43398137ae9@antiochians.org> Matt, Thanks for clarifying your comment. I'm also glad you're not a forum police officer. Please continue to contribute to the forum, your opinions are always welcome here Matt. In solidarity, Jane Slater Class of '80 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 2 21:24:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Thu Aug 2 21:37:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Legal Fund Needs - by Yazz Allen '66 In-Reply-To: <15443f73eb5dc0a75be4161858e2fb1e@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Beth R, When did you coop with the Woosters? I know a lot of them, especilayy KAte and Scott plus many of the crew folk. WHat show were they doing when you were there? Casselli '87 >Hi Sara, > >I have seen some of the archival stuff from those productions. I think it would have been a magical >venue to have seen shows. I am also aware of there professional nature. Having been on co-op >with the Wooster Group in New York, I know precisely how valuable observation of such professional >productions are. I would welcome it back in it's original format, or in a build up to that >glory. > >Bob, > >I guess I was mistaken and that Medea in Summer 2001 (clearly not Shakespeare) was produced with >grant funding or from another source. This was the last Amphitheater show I was involved with, though I >can't say if it was the last produced. > > >-Beth R. '04 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From sjr5 at nyu.edu Fri Aug 3 00:29:27 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Fri Aug 3 00:41:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: <33b5e8f6b2799f5f63db404c31adc05b@www.antiochians.org> References: <33b5e8f6b2799f5f63db404c31adc05b@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Matt, this is a bad link. The forum says it's "incorrect or outdated." Have you moved it? Or if folks save their e-mail, it was posted by Ilse Moon on June 21, 9:40 p.m. as a Word document. >FYI - Isle Moon posted the final AIF report about a month ago. You >can read it here: >http://www.antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=18747 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! -- Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College, '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.neww.org.pl http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting ******************* "If you do not let the tie run come to the plate, you can never lose." --Mark Harris, in one of the Southpaw novels From matt at baya.net Fri Aug 3 00:37:45 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Fri Aug 3 00:54:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] correction from katy cobb jako In-Reply-To: References: <33b5e8f6b2799f5f63db404c31adc05b@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: The link works for me. You may need to be logged in to the forums to see it. This was the text version of the report that Ilse sent (since the lists were removing the attachments if I recall correctly) >> http://www.antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=18747 -Matt On Aug 3, 2007, at 12:29 AM, Sonia Jaffe Robbins wrote: > Matt, this is a bad link. The forum says it's "incorrect or > outdated." Have you moved it? Or if folks save their e-mail, it was > posted by Ilse Moon on June 21, 9:40 p.m. as a Word document. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 3 01:30:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (beth.00 (bgutelius@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 3 01:43:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] New Forum: Ask the Alumni Board Message-ID: <07a38b09bb17f6eb6953ca6e20a34087@antiochians.org> from rowan: I'm making the official announcement for the Ask the Alumni Board forum, though it's been around for a few days. You can find it here: http://www.antiochians.org/forum/viewforum.php?id=113 , though you'll have to be registered for the forums. I've spoken with a few AB members who are happy to answer answerable questions, alleviate some confusion, and demonstrate our commitment to transparency. We also have a FAQ here: http://www.antiochians.org/faq From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 3 22:53:27 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (brodgers (brodgers@woh.rr.com)) Date: Fri Aug 3 23:06:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center Message-ID: Dear Alumni and Friends of Antioch College, I was heartened by the inclusion of the CSK Center in the considerations you are requiring of the BOT. I have been very involved with the Center during and following its creation. I was also honored to be one of the four who met with Mrs. King and asked if we could use her name to bring attention to the Center's mission. I have said publicly that it is indeed one thing for Beverly Rodgers to go belly up and totally another for something named for Mrs. King to fail. Only two entities have Mrs. King's name--a children's literature award and the Center. Even the children's lit award has an Antioch connection. One of Mrs. King's co-ops was a New York library. Her supervisor stayed in touch with her and it was this supervisor who asked Mrs. King to lend her name to the award. I have spoken with Dana Patterson and she has told me that the "University" has told her that if she could raise enough funds to sustain the Center, it would continue to exist. If she could not, it would be closed. I cannot imagine a more sound indication that the University does not share Antioch's mission. I feel betrayed and somewhat guilty for my role in securing Mrs. King's blessing and name for the Center. If there is anything I can do to ensure its continuation, I will be there. Thank you all for your dedication, thoughtfulness and organization in working to maintain this unique and valuable institution. Beverly Rodgers Associate Professor of Anthropology Antioch College From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 3 23:30:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 3 23:43:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9d5a1805bb49c5f20d9c8522df900c9a@antiochians.org> [img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1427/1002754483_eccbfdbfa1_o.jpg[/img] Resign, Toni. From morganpjones at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 00:34:16 2007 From: morganpjones at comcast.net (Morgan Jones) Date: Sat Aug 4 00:47:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Night of the Living Dead In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now that *is* an attractive metaphor. Morgan Jones ?89 Ah John Hevelin...here is some Antioch memorabilia connected to your Night of the Living Dead. The hero in the movie..Duane Jones...was an Antioch Theater professor here in the mid seventies. Duffy From marklp2 at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 06:52:06 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Sat Aug 4 07:05:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Money Making Idea In-Reply-To: <07a38b09bb17f6eb6953ca6e20a34087@antiochians.org> References: <07a38b09bb17f6eb6953ca6e20a34087@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <000301c7d685$80cad780$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Here's a fund-raising idea for the BOT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- May 18, 2007 Colleges Offering Campuses as Final Resting Places By ALAN FINDER Want to recapture those undergraduate years? Colleges and universities are offering the chance -- for eternity. For a few thousand dollars, the University of Richmond and a half-dozen other universities are giving alumni and faculty the opportunity to have their ashes maintained on campus in perpetuity. Three more universities -- Notre Dame, the Citadel and Hendrix College -- are building similar memorials, known as columbaria. ''It seems really off the wall on first blush to most people,'' said Richard W. Trollinger, who was involved in the creation of one at Centre College, a liberal arts college in Danville, Ky. ''Why on earth would a university create a columbarium?'' The answer is simple, Mr. Trollinger and other college officials say. In an era when many people are highly mobile and do not settle in one place for long, a college can have a strong allure as a final resting place, they say. And officials point out that colleges have a special resonance for many people, who have forged life-long relationships as undergraduates. ''Returning to that place as a final resting place can be a very powerful notion,'' said J. Timothy Cloyd, the president of Hendrix, a small liberal arts college in Conway, Ark. For the universities, memorial walls can serve other purposes, although officials are often reluctant to talk about them. A columbarium, by building stronger bonds with alumni and their families, might lead eventually to substantial donations. ''What schools are looking to do is to get people to include them in their wills, in their estates, and this is a natural adjunct to that,'' said Tim Westerbeck, a managing director of Lipman Hearne, a marketing firm that works with universities and other nonprofits. ''The idea of people being buried on campus is the period at the end of the sentence, so to speak. It's the final commitment.'' ''I think schools are all about building deep affinity, just like a business needs to build customer loyalty,'' Mr. Westerbeck added. But at many institutions, sales for columbaria have been slow, perhaps in part because marketing tends to be subdued. Prices vary, ranging from $1,800 to over $3,000. College officials say interested alumni or staff members -- not university fund-raisers and consultants -- came up with the idea of building columbaria on campuses. ''Many people don't identify with their churches or their churches don't have cemeteries like they used to,'' said the Rev. David D. Burhans, a retired chaplain at the University of Richmond who was involved in the creation of a large campus columbarium six years ago. ''But people feel very connected to their colleges, and there are some beautiful places on campuses.'' The columbarium at Richmond is in a serpentine wall that encloses a garden next to the university's chapel. Niches within the wall cost $3,000, and can hold one or two urns with cremated ashes. The garden is peaceful and secluded, and yet just around a corner from the middle of the bustling campus. ''It's so lovely that people go there and read, eat their lunches,'' said Mr. Burhans, who recalled with a laugh that some people had called him ''Dr. Death'' when the idea was first under discussion a decade ago. ''It's not morose, it's not drab, it's a beautiful spot. You can almost feel the sacredness of it.'' The columbarium holds 3,000 niches, but only about 100 have been sold since it was completed in 2001. The University of Virginia appears to have built the first memorial wall 16 years ago, the fruit of a concerted campaign by an alumnus, Leigh B. Middleditch Jr. A graduate of both Virginia's undergraduate college and law school, Mr. Middleditch has practiced law for 50 years in Charlottesville and has been active with the university as a lawyer, adjunct professor and trustee. He said he had wanted to be buried in the university's cemetery, but it had run out of room. Recalling a columbarium in the church he attended while growing up outside Detroit, he lobbied to create one at the university. ''Because of a long affiliation with the University of Virginia, I wanted to be buried there,'' he said. Some of Mr. Middleditch's friends lent money to finance the memorial wall, which replaced part of a wall of the cemetery. He assumed the project would ultimately raise large amounts of money for the university. ''I was totally wrong,'' he said. The first phase of the columbarium, with 180 niches, was built in 1991. All but one of those spaces have been sold, and a second phase, with another 180 niches, was built. A niche in the first phase cost $1,800 and one in the second phase will cost $2,500. The money goes primarily to pay for building the columbarium and long-term maintenance. The university has done limited marketing to alumni and faculty. ''It's had a very low profile,'' said Dr. Dearing W. Johns, an associate professor at Virginia's medical school and chairwoman of the cemetery committee. At Centre College, which has not advertised its columbarium to alumni, only 7 of the 84 cubicles in the memorial wall built seven years ago have been sold. At Sweet Briar College, a liberal arts college for women in Sweet Briar, Va., niches in a small columbarium built in the early 1990's cost from $1,800 to $2,800; about half of the 64 spaces have been sold, said Chuck Kestner, a retired director of planning and construction. Chapman University in Orange, Calif., completed a modern columbarium a year and a half ago, with 14-foot curved walls made of blue Brazilian marble. ''On most days, it's almost like you're stepping into the sky,'' said the Rev. Ronald L. Farmer, dean of the Wallace All Faiths Chapel at Chapman. The columbarium at Notre Dame will be part of a larger project, the construction of two mausoleums in the university's cemetery, an initiative called Coming Home. Will the idea continue to catch on? Richard A. Hesel, a principal of the Art and Science Group, which consults with colleges and universities on marketing and other matters, said he would not be surprised. ''A college is one of the few remaining places in people's lives where there is a real community,'' Mr. Hesel said. ''I think this could really blossom.'' Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From wasb at albany.edu Sat Aug 4 09:49:37 2007 From: wasb at albany.edu (Stephen L. Wasby) Date: Sat Aug 4 10:03:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] a side note Message-ID: <001f01c7d69e$4d8b4c60$63761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Today's New York TIMES carries the obituary of Judge (and Professor) Robert Keeton (Harvard Law; District of Massachusetts). He was the brother of Morris Keeton, who, according to the obituary, still lives (in Columbia, Md.). Lest someone charge me with bringing in irrelevancies (like the charge brought, improperly, against those who mentioned the Minneapolis bridge disaster), I would note that years ago, Morris Keeton, at an Antioch alumni meeting (I believe it was in D.C.) said that the system (then with many units) was being operated on an accounting system that was inadequate for a single campus. I mention this only to point out that the difficulties that led to the present situation are of decades-long standing. Steve Wasby '59 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Sat Aug 4 13:15:11 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Sat Aug 4 13:28:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] a side note In-Reply-To: <001f01c7d69e$4d8b4c60$63761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Message-ID: thats far from irrelevant. can you get with him and get more data? "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "Stephen L. Wasby" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: >Subject: [Alumni-chat] a side note >Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:49:37 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc12-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 4 >Aug 2007 06:49:49 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 9892660DE3FD;Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:03:13 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from mailman.c4.net (c4.net [208.75.32.5])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A2C60DE3DBfor ; Sat, >4 Aug 2007 10:03:10 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from wasbdzt3eud7ix (unverified [69.26.118.99]) by >mailman.c4.net(Vircom SMTPRS 4.35.480.0) with SMTP id >for ; Sat, 4 Aug >2007 09:49:42 -0400 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >GSH7qyRyHSrXVTTR0n7JR9OVJ72rbLfItWbh+KAVR/svay9cdfV4A2sMNEUNFGlUs7ia60AKnK83iTcWKlzqlA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Modus-BlackList: 69.26.118.99=OK;wasb@albany.edu=OK >X-Modus-Trusted: 69.26.118.99=YES >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Aug 2007 13:49:49.0752 (UTC) >FILETIME=[53817B80:01C7D69E] > >Today's New York TIMES carries the obituary of Judge (and Professor) Robert >Keeton (Harvard Law; District of Massachusetts). He was the brother of >Morris Keeton, >who, according to the obituary, still lives (in Columbia, Md.). > >Lest someone charge me with bringing in irrelevancies (like the charge >brought, improperly, against those who mentioned the Minneapolis bridge >disaster), I would note >that years ago, Morris Keeton, at an Antioch alumni meeting (I believe it >was in D.C.) said that the system (then with many units) was being >operated on an accounting system that was inadequate for a single campus. > I mention this only to point out that the difficulties that >led to the present situation are of decades-long standing. > >Steve Wasby '59 >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 4 16:01:26 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:14:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] NYC Chapter Meeting Reminder Message-ID: NYC Antioch Alumni Chapter Meeting Agenda New York Theatre Workshop 83 East 4th Street Monday August 6th 2007 7:30 pm I. Defining the NY Chapter II. Agenda Review III. Forum Update and Overview IV. Where we are/What we know V. Strategy Workgroup Ideas and Facilitators a. Fundraising-Large and small b. Legal and Governance c. Extending the CG Community d. Communication e. Alumni Board-Creating a greater transparency f. Focus-August 25th and Beyond VI. Breakout into workgroups (max. 1 ? hours) VII. Return and Present Action Points VIII. Next Meeting-Host and location Any input is much appreciated but try and get to me before Monday, my apologies for the short notice What: NYC Chapter Meeting Where: New York Theatre Workshop 4th Street Theater 83 East 4th Street (ring the 4th Street Theater Buzzer to the left of the door) Between 2nd and 3rd Ave.(closer to 2nd on the north side of the street) New York, NY 10003 212-780-9037 ex 111 or 310-977-8583 Who: Hosted by Michael Casselli '87 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 4 16:02:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:15:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] NYC Chapter Meeting Reminder Message-ID: NYC Antioch Alumni Chapter Meeting Agenda New York Theatre Workshop 83 East 4th Street Monday August 6th 2007 7:30 pm I. Defining the NY Chapter II. Agenda Review III. Forum Update and Overview IV. Where we are/What we know V. Strategy Workgroup Ideas and Facilitators a. Fundraising-Large and small b. Legal and Governance c. Extending the CG Community d. Communication e. Alumni Board-Creating a greater transparency f. Focus-August 25th and Beyond VI. Breakout into workgroups (max. 1 ? hours) VII. Return and Present Action Points VIII. Next Meeting-Host and location Any input is much appreciated but try and get to me before Monday, my apologies for the short notice What: NYC Chapter Meeting Where: New York Theatre Workshop 4th Street Theater 83 East 4th Street (ring the 4th Street Theater Buzzer to the left of the door) Between 2nd and 3rd Ave.(closer to 2nd on the north side of the street) New York, NY 10003 212-780-9037 ex 111 or 310-977-8583 Who: Hosted by Michael Casselli '87 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 4 16:02:19 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:15:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] NYC Chapter Meeting Reminder Message-ID: NYC Antioch Alumni Chapter Meeting Agenda New York Theatre Workshop 83 East 4th Street Monday August 6th 2007 7:30 pm I. Defining the NY Chapter II. Agenda Review III. Forum Update and Overview IV. Where we are/What we know V. Strategy Workgroup Ideas and Facilitators a. Fundraising-Large and small b. Legal and Governance c. Extending the CG Community d. Communication e. Alumni Board-Creating a greater transparency f. Focus-August 25th and Beyond VI. Breakout into workgroups (max. 1 ? hours) VII. Return and Present Action Points VIII. Next Meeting-Host and location Any input is much appreciated but try and get to me before Monday, my apologies for the short notice What: NYC Chapter Meeting Where: New York Theatre Workshop 4th Street Theater 83 East 4th Street (ring the 4th Street Theater Buzzer to the left of the door) Between 2nd and 3rd Ave.(closer to 2nd on the north side of the street) New York, NY 10003 212-780-9037 ex 111 or 310-977-8583 Who: Hosted by Michael Casselli '87 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 4 16:02:29 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Sat Aug 4 16:15:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] NYC Chapter Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <2abbd688c2819dd84b19cdc6167d62bd@antiochians.org> NYC Antioch Alumni Chapter Meeting Agenda New York Theatre Workshop 83 East 4th Street Monday August 6th 2007 7:30 pm I. Defining the NY Chapter II. Agenda Review III. Forum Update and Overview IV. Where we are/What we know V. Strategy Workgroup Ideas and Facilitators a. Fundraising-Large and small b. Legal and Governance c. Extending the CG Community d. Communication e. Alumni Board-Creating a greater transparency f. Focus-August 25th and Beyond VI. Breakout into workgroups (max. 1 ? hours) VII. Return and Present Action Points VIII. Next Meeting-Host and location Any input is much appreciated but try and get to me before Monday, my apologies for the short notice What: NYC Chapter Meeting Where: New York Theatre Workshop 4th Street Theater 83 East 4th Street (ring the 4th Street Theater Buzzer to the left of the door) Between 2nd and 3rd Ave.(closer to 2nd on the north side of the street) New York, NY 10003 212-780-9037 ex 111 or 310-977-8583 Who: Hosted by Michael Casselli '87 From lrpjak at verizon.net Sat Aug 4 17:20:31 2007 From: lrpjak at verizon.net (L Powsner) Date: Sat Aug 4 17:35:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Money Making Idea In-Reply-To: <000301c7d685$80cad780$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> References: <07a38b09bb17f6eb6953ca6e20a34087@antiochians.org> <000301c7d685$80cad780$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <7C6E0012EADD4B7A90317D9E77F9DE7D@NewDell> That is very funny. Thanks for sharing. Laurie -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Pomerantz Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 6:52 AM To: 'Alumni Chat List' Subject: [Alumni-chat] Money Making Idea Here's a fund-raising idea for the BOT. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- May 18, 2007 Colleges Offering Campuses as Final Resting Places By ALAN FINDER Want to recapture those undergraduate years? Colleges and universities are offering the chance -- for eternity. For a few thousand dollars, the University of Richmond and a half-dozen other universities are giving alumni and faculty the opportunity to have their ashes maintained on campus in perpetuity. Three more universities -- Notre Dame, the Citadel and Hendrix College -- are building similar memorials, known as columbaria. ''It seems really off the wall on first blush to most people,'' said Richard W. Trollinger, who was involved in the creation of one at Centre College, a liberal arts college in Danville, Ky. ''Why on earth would a university create a columbarium?'' The answer is simple, Mr. Trollinger and other college officials say. In an era when many people are highly mobile and do not settle in one place for long, a college can have a strong allure as a final resting place, they say. And officials point out that colleges have a special resonance for many people, who have forged life-long relationships as undergraduates. ''Returning to that place as a final resting place can be a very powerful notion,'' said J. Timothy Cloyd, the president of Hendrix, a small liberal arts college in Conway, Ark. For the universities, memorial walls can serve other purposes, although officials are often reluctant to talk about them. A columbarium, by building stronger bonds with alumni and their families, might lead eventually to substantial donations. ''What schools are looking to do is to get people to include them in their wills, in their estates, and this is a natural adjunct to that,'' said Tim Westerbeck, a managing director of Lipman Hearne, a marketing firm that works with universities and other nonprofits. ''The idea of people being buried on campus is the period at the end of the sentence, so to speak. It's the final commitment.'' ''I think schools are all about building deep affinity, just like a business needs to build customer loyalty,'' Mr. Westerbeck added. But at many institutions, sales for columbaria have been slow, perhaps in part because marketing tends to be subdued. Prices vary, ranging from $1,800 to over $3,000. College officials say interested alumni or staff members -- not university fund-raisers and consultants -- came up with the idea of building columbaria on campuses. ''Many people don't identify with their churches or their churches don't have cemeteries like they used to,'' said the Rev. David D. Burhans, a retired chaplain at the University of Richmond who was involved in the creation of a large campus columbarium six years ago. ''But people feel very connected to their colleges, and there are some beautiful places on campuses.'' The columbarium at Richmond is in a serpentine wall that encloses a garden next to the university's chapel. Niches within the wall cost $3,000, and can hold one or two urns with cremated ashes. The garden is peaceful and secluded, and yet just around a corner from the middle of the bustling campus. ''It's so lovely that people go there and read, eat their lunches,'' said Mr. Burhans, who recalled with a laugh that some people had called him ''Dr. Death'' when the idea was first under discussion a decade ago. ''It's not morose, it's not drab, it's a beautiful spot. You can almost feel the sacredness of it.'' The columbarium holds 3,000 niches, but only about 100 have been sold since it was completed in 2001. The University of Virginia appears to have built the first memorial wall 16 years ago, the fruit of a concerted campaign by an alumnus, Leigh B. Middleditch Jr. A graduate of both Virginia's undergraduate college and law school, Mr. Middleditch has practiced law for 50 years in Charlottesville and has been active with the university as a lawyer, adjunct professor and trustee. He said he had wanted to be buried in the university's cemetery, but it had run out of room. Recalling a columbarium in the church he attended while growing up outside Detroit, he lobbied to create one at the university. ''Because of a long affiliation with the University of Virginia, I wanted to be buried there,'' he said. Some of Mr. Middleditch's friends lent money to finance the memorial wall, which replaced part of a wall of the cemetery. He assumed the project would ultimately raise large amounts of money for the university. ''I was totally wrong,'' he said. The first phase of the columbarium, with 180 niches, was built in 1991. All but one of those spaces have been sold, and a second phase, with another 180 niches, was built. A niche in the first phase cost $1,800 and one in the second phase will cost $2,500. The money goes primarily to pay for building the columbarium and long-term maintenance. The university has done limited marketing to alumni and faculty. ''It's had a very low profile,'' said Dr. Dearing W. Johns, an associate professor at Virginia's medical school and chairwoman of the cemetery committee. At Centre College, which has not advertised its columbarium to alumni, only 7 of the 84 cubicles in the memorial wall built seven years ago have been sold. At Sweet Briar College, a liberal arts college for women in Sweet Briar, Va., niches in a small columbarium built in the early 1990's cost from $1,800 to $2,800; about half of the 64 spaces have been sold, said Chuck Kestner, a retired director of planning and construction. Chapman University in Orange, Calif., completed a modern columbarium a year and a half ago, with 14-foot curved walls made of blue Brazilian marble. ''On most days, it's almost like you're stepping into the sky,'' said the Rev. Ronald L. Farmer, dean of the Wallace All Faiths Chapel at Chapman. The columbarium at Notre Dame will be part of a larger project, the construction of two mausoleums in the university's cemetery, an initiative called Coming Home. Will the idea continue to catch on? Richard A. Hesel, a principal of the Art and Science Group, which consults with colleges and universities on marketing and other matters, said he would not be surprised. ''A college is one of the few remaining places in people's lives where there is a real community,'' Mr. Hesel said. ''I think this could really blossom.'' Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From howardh0336 at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 17:32:38 2007 From: howardh0336 at comcast.net (Howard at Glenn Riddle) Date: Sat Aug 4 17:46:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost Message-ID: <070701c7d6de$fb866080$6501a8c0@hhhome> Since it seems that there was a technical problem with the original, here is a copy. Arthur Dole's letter to the Chronicle of Higher Education almost got it right. The children did not children devour their Alma Mater. A small group of misguided professors and administrators did. I can almost remember the day. It was in the spring or summer of 1965. The civil rights movement had reached a turning point and white students were no longer being asked to take the lead. Martin Luther King's influence was in decline and Malcolm X's was rising. During the previous four years colleges throughout the US were getting rid of chapel requirements, dress codes and silly curfews and dorm rules. Throughout the US students were taking initiative on their own campuses from Berkeley to CCNY. So Dr. Dixon (the president) and Keith McGary (the art professor) and a few others decided that we were not radical enough. And they embarked on several missions: 1) They got rid of grades 2) They got rid of requirements 3) They started the string of poorly funded, poorly planned satellite campuses throughout the US. Many professors and many students rebelled. "Why get rid of requirements for freshmen? Get rid of requirements for seniors" we pleaded. Professor Wilson and others tried to lead a coup to get rid of the ridiculous plan but they were out-maneuvered. So they quit. Some right away, some after a while. And Antioch lost its best professors. I graduated in 1966, went on to get a Ph.D., and taught at Cornell University. I was on the graduate admissions committee there in the early 1970's and routinely saw applications from Antioch grads get tossed into the reject pile. We could not evaluate their undergraduate performance. When my sons were ready for college I never thought of recommending Antioch. I heard stories of freshmen getting a full year of credit on their first day there. The sex, drugs, parties, etc. do not bother me. I did my share and came out fine. But on Monday morning I went to class, wrote papers, took tests and read books. I was not an outstanding student. But I was fairly evaluated. And there was time to work on the campus newspaper, work on the radio station, and otherwise participate in campus life. Antioch died because it forgot the basic reason for being a college: In exchange for a parent's hard-earned money a college must prepare a student for the next thing. And, in a capitalist society, in the U.S., this means earning a living. For the most part, the next thing means graduate school. A BA degree gets you nowhere. The people that run Antioch forgot that. I value my Antioch experience. Over the years I have hired three Antioch students as co-ops and they have done very well. I think that we should be ashamed to see Antioch die. And we should be sad. Perhaps one of the buildings could be set aside as a museum to store Antioch memorabilia. However, too much damage has been done. Sell the physical plant. Store the records. Give the remaining employees severance pay. And say good bye. From marklp2 at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 17:35:31 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Sat Aug 4 17:49:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] FW: Someone want to give stock Message-ID: <002d01c7d6df$62bca610$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Under Construction. Pass the word. Rick Daily -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Robin Rice Lichtig Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 9:00 AM To: 'Alumni Chat List' Subject: [Alumni-chat] forms of giving to the college I'm going to be away from my computer until July 1 so could someone please forward this question to someone in charge of guidelines for receiving donations for the Revival Fund: Can we give stock? How? And how about setting up a link with PayPal so people can donate from the very-soon-to-be central antiochians website? - Robin '64 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From ilse1 at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 19:46:10 2007 From: ilse1 at comcast.net (ilse moon) Date: Sat Aug 4 19:59:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center References: Message-ID: <034f01c7d6f1$a2c06a50$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Has anyone had the nerve to tell the King family about this? ----- Original Message ----- From: "brodgers (brodgers@woh.rr.com)" To: Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:53 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center > Dear Alumni and Friends of Antioch College, > > I was heartened by the inclusion of the CSK Center in the considerations > you are requiring of the BOT. I have been very involved with the Center > during and following its creation. I was also honored to be one of the > four who met with Mrs. King and asked if we could use her name to bring > attention to the Center's mission. I have said publicly that it is indeed > one thing for Beverly Rodgers to go belly up and totally another for > something named for Mrs. King to fail. > > Only two entities have Mrs. King's name--a children's literature award and > the Center. Even the children's lit award has an Antioch connection. One > of Mrs. King's co-ops was a New York library. Her supervisor stayed in > touch with her and it was this supervisor who asked Mrs. King to lend her > name to the award. > > I have spoken with Dana Patterson and she has told me that the > "University" has told her that if she could raise enough funds to sustain > the Center, it would continue to exist. If she could not, it would be > closed. I cannot imagine a more sound indication that the University does > not share Antioch's mission. > > I feel betrayed and somewhat guilty for my role in securing Mrs. King's > blessing and name for the Center. If there is anything I can do to ensure > its continuation, I will be there. > > Thank you all for your dedication, thoughtfulness and organization in > working to maintain this unique and valuable institution. > > Beverly Rodgers > Associate Professor of Anthropology > Antioch College > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/933 - Release Date: 8/2/2007 > 2:22 PM > > From gerrybello at hotmail.com Sat Aug 4 19:52:16 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Sat Aug 4 20:05:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: <034f01c7d6f1$a2c06a50$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Message-ID: The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT during the faculty meeting. They are LIVID! What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control they will never trust the institution as a whole again. _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From ilse1 at comcast.net Sat Aug 4 21:51:39 2007 From: ilse1 at comcast.net (ilse moon) Date: Sat Aug 4 22:05:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center References: Message-ID: <038001c7d703$2a8ff660$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Can that justifiable anger be used to help save the Center, the college and the Glen? They have a lot of friends. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Bello" To: Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center > The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT > during the faculty meeting. > > They are LIVID! > > What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control > they will never trust the institution as a whole again. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to > win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: > 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 4 22:18:26 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sat Aug 4 22:31:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT >during the faculty meeting. > >They are LIVID! > >What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control >they will never trust the institution as a whole again. After the way Antioch has whored her name out (and SJG and RS), the would be crazy to trust it. I mean, that's what colleges and university's do, but the seldom go on to smear their alumni's name with shit. If there is any question in your mind, dear reader, that the ULC and a majority of the BoT do not wish to close and reopen the college but instead KILL IT DEAD and purge the political and social-change traditions of nearly a century, consider this inexcusable behavior. Alan Benard, '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 4 22:33:42 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (nealcrandall (nealcran@erinet.com)) Date: Sat Aug 4 22:47:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <07388c1a9bb09587f4ad831d6e922c3f@antiochians.org> Alan....you got it...they simply want to kill the college....that is the bottom line...it does not fit with their plans....big plans and with Homeland Security MONEY! >>The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT >>during the faculty meeting. >> >>They are LIVID! >> >>What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control >>they will never trust the institution as a whole again. >After the way Antioch has whored her name out (and SJG and RS), the would be crazy to trust it. > >I mean, that's what colleges and university's do, but the seldom go on to smear their alumni's name with shit. > >If there is any question in your mind, dear reader, that the ULC and a majority of the BoT do not wish to close and reopen the college but instead KILL IT DEAD and purge the political and social-change traditions of nearly a century, consider this inexcusable behavior. > >Alan Benard, '92 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 01:04:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 01:18:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <175e5edee163a0113acc06ffd2bf4417@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <7c7353ed626f6013a156f2092da01893@www.antiochians.org> Quick question: Having been referred to as "Slander Queen" I see how some folks on these boards make quick judgments without necessarily asking direct questions to get info. Then, they attack like a pack of hungry wolves. Did anyone ever bother to go to Lawry to ask him what he said to the admissions staff? The article doesn't quote him. I would think this is a VERY important thing to do. Please let me know. Thanks. Deb '83 (definitely not a slander queen) >Dear NAMI: > >I read this article in the June 26, 2007 Yellow Springs News of Yellow Springs, Ohio about Antioch College, which is a residential undergraduate program. You may have heard recently that its Board of Trustees and management plan to close the school in July, 2008. > >While there are many reasons why that is happening, having read this article, I ask myself whether its leadership's negative targeting of those with mental illness in its admissions process reported in this news story had an impact. > >Antioch College's president, Steven Lawry, recently announced he will resign in December, 2007. > >The article describing this alleged systematic discrimination called for by President Lawry is below. I have excerpted the pertinent paragraphs: > >"Mixed message from the top >However, the admissions office was also affected by factors that may have kept enrollment from being as high as it could have been. For example, several employees spoke of their amazement when Lawry addressed the admissions staff last year and requested that they recruit only students without mental health problems. Some staff members told him that, if prospective students didn?t offer that information, they had no way of knowing, and besides, many young people have mental health issues, they said. > >"?A large percentage of the college-age population in general? has some mental health concerns, Skotte said. > >"Lawry?s emphasis on weeding out potentially problematic students, and on seeking high-achieving students, seemed to imply that the counselors should focus on quality more than quantity, Skotte said. > >"?That conversation made us all think that the numbers weren?t as important as getting the right student,? he said. ?We shifted our focus from getting numbers to getting a specific type of class.?" > >Sincerely, > >Alan Benard > > >http://www.ysnews.com/stories/2007/07/0 sions.html > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From gerrybello at hotmail.com Sun Aug 5 01:06:32 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Sun Aug 5 01:20:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: <038001c7d703$2a8ff660$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Message-ID: One would hope so. However I'm not the one to approach them and any conversation with them should focus around what they want. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "ilse moon" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "Alumni Chat List" >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center >Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:51:39 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc12-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 4 >Aug 2007 18:51:44 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA4960DFD33;Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:05:10 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net >[206.18.177.53])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0EC60DFD25for >; Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:05:08 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from ilsedesktop >(c-68-34-155-99.hsd1.fl.comcast.net[68.34.155.99])by comcast.net >(alnrmhc13) with SMTPid <20070805015140b1300edqaae>; Sun, 5 Aug 2007 >01:51:40 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >vGzX0e+ktu6aNhPd9FyTTsMhy6i6gxhMaFbgDWGYS09sMV26qc1+CSDhnh/xxTLQ77CxJQoIuzXx2bW9oTjoYA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Aug 2007 01:51:44.0499 (UTC) >FILETIME=[2D1B5C30:01C7D703] > >Can that justifiable anger be used to help save the Center, the college and >the Glen? They have a lot of friends. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Bello" >To: >Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 7:52 PM >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center > > >>The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT >>during the faculty meeting. >> >>They are LIVID! >> >>What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control >>they will never trust the institution as a whole again. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to >>win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Alumni-chat mailing list >>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: >>269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 02:09:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 02:22:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <48ca867cc2cdc9c688d0681132f91b8c@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <1fe57686229bb195043e07014c2ac5c2@antiochians.org> Hi Alan and others from this thread, I noticed that conversation on this topic has largely died down and I guess that may at least partially be due to Lawry announcing his resignation. My question is this: The article which mentioned Lawry's speaking to people in the admissions office about mental illness related issues didn't have a quote from Lawry himself so I was just wondering if anyone has since asked Lawry directly what he said. I'd hate to think so many people are saying things about his comments without first trying to suss out exactly what those comments are and I think going straight to the source is always a good idea. Please let me know. Thanks. Debra >>Great tactic for fundraising, Alan. >> >>Thelma >This goes beyond Antioch. This speaks to civil rights. Remember those? > >Maybe if the Board stopped hiring losers we would have an easier time raising funds. > >Alan Benard > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From aadole at adelphia.net Sun Aug 5 12:26:07 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Sun Aug 5 09:44:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: <070701c7d6de$fb866080$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: On 8/4/07 2:32 PM, "Howard at Glenn Riddle" wrote: > Since it seems that there was a technical problem with the original, here is a > copy. > > Arthur Dole's letter to the Chronicle of Higher Education almost got it right. > > The children did not children devour their Alma Mater. A small group of > misguided professors and administrators did. > > > > Since Howard has re-opened the issue of "Why Antioch Died," permit me to repeat the major point of my letter to the Chronicle. I called for an autopsy, a full objective scholarly report on what led up to the closure of Antioch College. In that context Jim Dixon's decisions in 1965 may well have been a beginning. In the end (and 2008 may be the date of AC's death as we knew it) I suggested that,ironically, the five other branches (AC's creations) that constituted the University may have drained so many of the assets of Antioch College that it expired. To put the matter another way, some one may die today of complications caused by Aids who was infected years ago. As has been said on this chat before, if Revival is to succeed, we need to know what went wrong. Art Dole '46 From Sistersara at aol.com Sun Aug 5 12:11:45 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 5 12:25:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost Message-ID: In a message dated 8/5/2007 8:31:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, aadole@adelphia.net writes: As has been said on this chat before, if Revival is to succeed, we need to know what went wrong. Art Dole '46 Amen -- and I noticed on the notes regarding what the Alumni Board is considering, realizing they have no finished plan at this juncture, no such analysis is even suggested. So perhaps it needs to be mentioned over and over again. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 12:13:19 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Sun Aug 5 12:26:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <1fe57686229bb195043e07014c2ac5c2@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Hi Alan and others from this thread, I noticed that conversation on this topic has largely died down and I guess that may at least partially be due to Lawry announcing his resignation. My question is this: The article which mentioned Lawry's speaking to people in the admissions office about mental illness related issues didn't have a quote from Lawry himself so I was just wondering if anyone has since asked Lawry directly what he said. I'd hate to think so many people are saying things about his comments without first trying to suss out exactly what those comments are and I think going straight to the source is always a good idea. Please let me know. Thanks. Debra Debra, President Lawry shared similar comments publicly with the full faculty of the College 10/31/06. All of us present can attest to his focus on mental health issues as being central to attracting and retaining students to the College. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 12:50:13 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 13:03:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hi Alan and others from this thread, > >I noticed that conversation on this topic has largely died down and I guess that may at least partially be due to Lawry announcing his resignation. > >My question is this: The article which mentioned Lawry's speaking to people in the admissions office about mental illness related issues didn't have a quote from Lawry himself so I was just wondering if anyone has since asked Lawry directly what he said. > >I'd hate to think so many people are saying things about his comments without first trying to suss out exactly what those comments are and I think going straight to the source is always a good idea. > >Please let me know. > >Thanks. > >Debra > > >Debra, > >President Lawry shared similar comments publicly with the full faculty of the College 10/31/06. All of us present can attest to his focus on mental health issues as being central to attracting and retaining students to the College. > >Bob > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! All, I agree with Debbie on this one, even if you have personal experience of Lawry, it is you and only you, we are still hearing it as an after the fact testimonial. I think it is more about verifying for one's self any and all information we receive second hand. Everyone seems to have a critical eye except when information confirms a belief or fear that supports their argument. It's gotta go both ways or our collective veracity comes into serious question. Casselli Casselli From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 13:00:30 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 13:13:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Mike: Thanks for the support. Your comments reflect exactly why I brought this topic out of the ashes. Debbie Dear Bob: Do you have a transcript of exactly what Dr. Lawry said? If so, I'd love to give it a read. Not having been there, I have a hunger for this kind of info. Thanks so much. Deb '83 >>Hi Alan and others from this thread, >> >>I noticed that conversation on this topic has largely died down and I guess that may at least partially be due to Lawry announcing his resignation. >> >>My question is this: The article which mentioned Lawry's speaking to people in the admissions office about mental illness related issues didn't have a quote from Lawry himself so I was just wondering if anyone has since asked Lawry directly what he said. >> >>I'd hate to think so many people are saying things about his comments without first trying to suss out exactly what those comments are and I think going straight to the source is always a good idea. >> >>Please let me know. >> >>Thanks. >> >>Debra >> >> >>Debra, >> >>President Lawry shared similar comments publicly with the full faculty of the College 10/31/06. All of us present can attest to his focus on mental health issues as being central to attracting and retaining students to the College. >> >>Bob >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Alumni-chat mailing list >>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >All, >I agree with Debbie on this one, even if you have personal experience of Lawry, it is you and only you, we are still hearing it as an after the fact testimonial. I think it is more about verifying for one's self any and all information we receive second hand. Everyone seems to have a critical eye except when information confirms a belief or fear that supports their argument. It's gotta go both ways or our collective veracity comes into serious question. > > > >Casselli >Casselli > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 13:07:57 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 13:21:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8f15209c09044855af6e1c0e1974395b@antiochians.org> >In a message dated 8/5/2007 8:31:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >aadole@adelphia.net writes: > >As has been said on this chat before, if Revival is to succeed, we need to >know what went wrong. > >Art Dole '46 > > > >Amen -- and I noticed on the notes regarding what the Alumni Board is >considering, realizing they have no finished plan at this juncture, no such >analysis is even suggested. So perhaps it needs to be mentioned over and over >again. Bad misleading logic. We smarter than that. Obviously a business plan for a multi-million dollar corporation is not going to be finished in a month. But since its not done, you want to take this oppourtunity to "analyze" what went wrong, and then inject your own (final) solutions into it. Take it somewhere else From pas0705 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 5 13:51:45 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Sun Aug 5 14:04:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <873336.36107.qm@web63907.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- Art Dole wrote: > On 8/4/07 2:32 PM, "Howard at Glenn Riddle" > wrote: > > The children did not children devour their Alma > Mater. A small group of > > misguided professors and administrators did. > > > > Since Howard has re-opened the issue of "Why > Antioch Died," permit me to > repeat the major point of my letter to the > Chronicle. Howard didn't "reopen" the issue-within his entire post issue of "why" has been inarguably decided. > To put the matter another way, some one may die > today of complications > caused by Aids who was infected years ago. Lets take your analogy another step; in today's world that same someone might live a long life depending on the care and the skill of those responsible for the care of that individual. Not to mention the availility of the necessary resources. > As has been said on this chat before, if Revival is > to succeed, we need to > know what went wrong. Yes, and as I've said before, there is also the issue of direct vs. indirect causes. The ability to determine the distinction is something everyone here should have been able to obtain as a part of earning a higher education degree. If a doctor withholds necessary treatment and a patient dies, do we look back and say "the patient is at fault for getting sick?" Every complex system has friction and change and even what some might call "disease." Its how those issues are handled that determines the success and longevity of that system. Simply determining that the "sickness" (or "toxicity" if you will) of the College culture is what killed it is, at best, laziness, whether you're an alumni OR George Will. -l ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ From lrpjak at verizon.net Sun Aug 5 15:06:59 2007 From: lrpjak at verizon.net (L Powsner) Date: Sun Aug 5 15:22:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] NJ statement In-Reply-To: <000301c7d685$80cad780$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> References: <07a38b09bb17f6eb6953ca6e20a34087@antiochians.org> <000301c7d685$80cad780$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <863325F8E99749A59DAA2534AA2B9DF4@NewDell> Hey Alumni Chat, The NJ alumni chapter is going to try to round up the 250+ New Jersey Antiochians and try to get them on board with making a pledge of money and support to keep Antioch open and to make a donation to the Faculty Legal Fund. We believe it is critical to pledge the support NOW (remember, you only have to actually cough up the cash if the conditions on the pledge form are met) so that the power of alumni is seen and felt. Go to: http://antiochians.org/donate to print out the pledge form. Go here to see how to donate to the Legal Fund: http://antiochians.org/announcements/faculty-legal-challenge-moving-forward- fund-established/ (there has to be a better link, no?) Here's our statement: New Jersey Alumni Chapter Statement, August 1, 2007 Dear Fellow Antioch College Supporters, New Jersey alumni met on July 29 and decided upon the following statement and action plan, which we hope others will want to replicate: The Antioch University Board of Trustees will be meeting on August 25 and its leaders still publicly insist they will not reverse their decision to suspend operations of the College in Yellow Springs. Despite the Alumni Association's success at raising $625,000 since June 28, we believe many more alumni are holding back on contributing to the College because of uncertainty about whether those donations will go to an institution that upholds the core principles of Antioch. We believe the majority of alumni are outraged by the Board of Trustees' failure to adhere to Antioch's longstanding practice of community governance in reaching the decision to close the College or to be properly transparent about the financial accounting that informed that decision. In addition, we believe that the critical financial support of alumni will not be there in four years if Board of Trustees has suspended operation of Antioch College in the interim. We resolve to encourage as many alumni as possible to pledge support to the College in the next three weeks on the condition, as stated in the pledge form available at http://antiochians.org/donate, that the Board of Trustees release control of Antioch to a new board specifically committed to the College in Yellow Springs and to an open and inclusive renewal process. In addition to pledging financial support, we believe it is important for alumni to pledge other forms of assistance, such as recruiting new students, maintaining alumni connections, finding new co-op jobs, and the like We encourage alumni to include information about those support activities on the pledge. We also resolve to try to increase donations over the next three weeks to the Antioch Faculty Legal Information Fund account at Yellow Springs Federal Credit Union, 217 Xenia Ave., Yellow Springs, OH 45387. Current faculty members-who have played a key role in keeping Antioch alive this long-deserve our backing in their efforts to fight the closure and protect tenure and academic freedom. Alumni voices should be heard loud and clear before the next Board of Trustees meeting: The trustees should release Antioch and give control of the College to a board that truly values its legacy of self-governance, innovation, a liberal arts curriculum and social justice. We will not support any future educational institution in Yellow Springs that does less. Sincerely, The New Jersey Antioch Alumni chapter From theodora at imbris.com Sun Aug 5 16:18:04 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Sun Aug 5 16:27:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] reinventing Antioch Message-ID: Dear Fellow Antiochians, I graduated from Antioch in ?68, and have been working as a psychologist in private practice in North Idaho for the past 23 years, after getting a doctorate from Duquesne. I?ve been through quite a process with myself in the past couple of weeks since I heard Antioch was closing, and have finally gotten through my own ambivalence about the place. Although I don?t blame Antioch for the lack of preparation I had to be there, both academically and emotionally, there wasn?t a lot of help there for students like me who grew up in a conservative state (Utah) (which didn?t teach thinking) with bright but uneducated parents, and (undiagnosed) ADHD to boot, and who had always been a people pleaser. I was a mess when I graduated...in fact, long before I graduated, and I barely graduated. So I struggled at first with whether it is even worth it to save the place. At the same time, I loved it when I was there and would not have considered being anyplace else, and I loved my co-op jobs. It was a real haven to me in some ways, because I could finally be myself (I realize that is a slight contradiction to what I just said above). Then when I read George Will?s editorial, I got downright mad. Antioch has it?s problems, but such a biased presentation in such a sad moment was completely uncalled for and downright mean. And so I spent two or three days writing him a response (and not sleeping much), and reviewing what all of my Antioch friends are now doing with their lives. It?s pretty impressive. I might not have convinced George, but I convinced myself. We ought to try and save the place. I have been having fun the past couple of days imagining what a new Antioch might look like. It really could be kinda fun, I think, to re-invent the place. We have all had to adapt as the world has changed (mental health has certainly changed a lot in the 43 years I?ve been involved in it). As with any organism, if you can?t adapt and find a niche, you die. So let?s adapt and find a niche. I?d like to share some of my fantasies. Please keep in mind as you read this that I haven?t a clue about Antioch?s current program. So if I?m talking about things that are already happening, please forgive me. I don?t mean to overlook anyone or anything. I?m just fantasizing about what the college of the new century could look like, with an Antioch twist. I don?t think we would have to kill the soul of Antioch to re-invent the curriculum. There are certain values that I feel I adopted there that have stayed with me throughout my life. When I wrote my response to Will, I found that I could, I thought, speak for almost all Antiochians in stating what kind of a world I thought we?d have, if Antiochians had their way (it looked pretty good, and the sad part is, it will all eventually happen, but in the conservative tradition of too little, too late). We share a certain ethics and attitude, and I don?t think we have to lose that. In fact, I think we can refine it and live it in a way that works better in today?s world. I personally don?t think that the kind of activism (protest and confrontation) that we lived out in the 60s will be effective now. In the 60s, we had sit-ins, etc., to draw the public?s attention to problems they were refusing to acknowledge. It was such a dramatic change from the quiet happy little world of the 50s that we got a lot of media coverage for it, and thus, could change the world. However, as you are all no doubt aware, the conservatives reacted to all of that by buying up the media industry so that they could control it, and now they do. And now, the networks ARE REQUIRED to present both the liberal and conservative viewpoint every time a controversial subject is presented. And so no matter what is going on, you always get the conservative spin on it to (in my opinion) throw the public off reality. And it works. Maybe especially in Idaho! (It definitely works here, in the most Republican county in the most Republican state in the nation. Ask me if I ever wonder how I managed to end up here!) I also think people are tired of adversarial approaches. It turns them off. At the same time that I don?t think old methods are going to work, there are certainly a lot of problems in the world that need to be addressed. If ever a practical but well informed education was needed, it is now. Climate change, the global economy, populations getting so large (whatever happened to zero population growth? I haven?t heard about it for at least 30 years). The clashing of cultures. Our aging population, the health of our population changing for the worse so dramatically with the obesity epidemic, and so forth. It is a perfect opportunity to mix academics and work experience to begin to address these problems. As a 63 year old, here is the kind of curriculum I could see making a real contribution (and I?m guessing that there are a lot of others out there who could generate even more titillating scenarios): 1. A department of Environmental Economics. This is a new field at the graduate level (my 36 year old niece was one of the first graduates), and there are folks coming out of these programs looking for places they could teach. Why not a department at the undergraduate level? I doubt there are more than one or two in the country, if any. 2. A school of Architecture that specializes in alternative architecture. We are building larger and larger homes in this country, and it is taxing the world?s resources much more than need be. The Not so Big House, the Simple House, green building, alternative building like straw bale construction and aerated concrete block, solar options (both passive and active), wind applications that won?t devastate migrating birds, rain water collection systems, grey water recycling systems, all need to be developed to a much greater extent, the latter especially for the West, which is drying up. We really need talented and artistic architects who can convince the middle and upper middle class that small can be beautiful and environmentally responsible can be cool. I think Susan Susanka has made a huge contribution in this vein in her books, but we need an army! And we need alternative energy development quickly, before our government convinces the populace to get back on the coal and nuclear band-wagons. 3. A degree for something like a health care consultant. I don?t know what you would call it. Health practitioner?. Here?s the way I see it: Most of the people studying nutrition and becoming dieticians don?t know that the current FDA dietary guidelines were dictated by the meat and sugar industries, for the most part, rather than nutritional research (check out the book The China Study), and they repeat these guidelines like they really constitute a healthy diet, when they actually promote disease. Diabetes is a terrible and costly problem, but is preventable for the most part, and reversible with right diet and exercise, for most people. This disease alone could destroy this country, because of the cost...if we don?t start taking a different approach to it. Our increasingly aging population is Alzheimer?s prone, but there is substantial research out there saying that life-style is critical in the prevention or development of it. For example, they have found that aerobics, weight training and agility exercise like dancing or yoga or Tai Chi, all do different and important things for the brain, not just for the body. And there are certain power foods that are good for the brain, and so forth. Someone needs to be teaching our middle-aged and older folks this stuff about both diabetes and Alzheimer?s. Doctors don?t do it. There is so much to learn about energy healing, Chinese Chi Gong, Acupunture, and a new things like Craniobiotic technique. (see the website with the same name). There are real possibilities for transforming health care without drugs for a great many things we currently use drugs for, such as allergies, bacterial infections, most viruses, parasites. They have profound implications for world health. Certain kinds of lights can be used to promote healing by stimulating cell metabolism. They can also be used to treat pain. I?ve had personal experience with both, in fact, all of the above. Why not a Health Practitioner department where students study nutrition, anatomy, exercise, physical therapy, alternative healing methods, etc. Something conceived in such a way that such consultants would be useful to both young and old, healthy and sick. Conservative enough to be used in the mainstream (e.g., in our schools and our retirement and nursing homes), but with the ability to be innovative, too. One reason the health insurance companies won?t pay for alternative methods is that they have not been scientifically proven to work in clinical studies. So why couldn?t Antiochians do some controlled studies on such stuff while they?re learning? It would be a start. Especially since some of our students would go on to be RDs (real doctors) and would take this knowledge of alternative approaches with them, something most physicians now are not acquainted with and are hugely suspicious of and threatened by. In China, their hospitals (i?ve heard) have a ?conventional? medical wing and a ?traditional? (acupuncture, Chi Gong) wing. They work together. People have their choice as to which they would like to emphasize. 4. There is, of course, a huge need in cross cultural studies: China studies, Indian, Latin American, MIddle Eastern, etc., the serious study of world religions, and enough study of their languages to get some sense of how they think. Exchange programs would be great. 5. I can see a need for a program in mediation and conflict resolution. We need to learn from folks like Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama, learning to collaborate and find common ground to solve problems. Some famous (Russian?) general once said, ?All wars end in negotiation. Why not skip the war and go directly to negotiation?? Could we become leaders in that arena? 6. With global warming, crops are going to be failing, and farmers are going to have to make some changes to survive and to produce food for the world. Could our science students be involved in analyzing and predicting trends, so that changes could be made in a timely way? The oceans are going to have to be farmed increasingly and differently, too, if we?re going to feed the world without destroying the ocean habitats. 7. There are huge populations that have been devastated by war and starvation, etc., and there will be increasing numbers affected by terrible storms. There is certainly going to be a need for knowing how to help them rebuild their lives and worlds. My late husband (Peter Mikuliak, ?67) did some post-war reconstruction work in Bosnia that was very creative and amazingly inexpensive. It?s going to take a lot of work and expertise to help the people in need. Courses in public administration, community organization, emergency response, etc. might help prepare Antiochians for such positions where they can really make an impact. Again, it?s going to take an army to help all the people who need help. And it?s going to take some ethical administrators to use the available funds efficiently. THese are just a few ideas. I can envision a very interesting interdisciplinary approach to all of the above, with traditional departments--math, science, literature, history, sociology, political science, all being accessed in various ways for concrete applications. If Peter were alive today, he?d be (figuratively, at least) riding into YSO on his white horse waving a sign with his motto: ?Don?t agonize, organize.? I wish he were here to help us, but we?ll have to do it without him. So let?s do it. (Maybe we should change the sign on McGregor). Sincerely, Pam Olsen From sercle at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 5 17:32:02 2007 From: sercle at sbcglobal.net (Barrie Grenell) Date: Sun Aug 5 17:45:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] FW: Someone want to give stock In-Reply-To: <002d01c7d6df$62bca610$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <005901c7d7a8$1082e5c0$4301a8c0@GRENELL> Yes, people can give stock. I'm not sure how it's done but it's not a BIG deal. Ask any established nonprofit near you or by phone. Red Cross, anything. I'll ask at the nonprofit where I work tomorrow; they have received gifts of stock. Barrie _________________ Barrie Grenell QBA (415) 826-2409 sercle@sbcglobal.net -----Original Message----- From: Mark Pomerantz [mailto:marklp2@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:36 PM To: 'Alumni Chat List' Subject: [Alumni-chat] FW: Someone want to give stock Under Construction. Pass the word. Rick Daily -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Robin Rice Lichtig Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 9:00 AM To: 'Alumni Chat List' Subject: [Alumni-chat] forms of giving to the college I'm going to be away from my computer until July 1 so could someone please forward this question to someone in charge of guidelines for receiving donations for the Revival Fund: Can we give stock? How? And how about setting up a link with PayPal so people can donate from the very-soon-to-be central antiochians website? - Robin '64 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From sercle at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 5 17:36:27 2007 From: sercle at sbcglobal.net (Barrie Grenell) Date: Sun Aug 5 17:49:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005a01c7d7a8$aed39d50$4301a8c0@GRENELL> Paula Treichler, Trustee and Alumna, is the one to ask as she is friends with them and her mother was tight with Coretta Scott King. I would think that someone would ask them to hang on till we see how this whole thing will settle out. Don't rush to judgment. Barrie _________________ Barrie Grenell QBA (415) 826-2409 sercle@sbcglobal.net -----Original Message----- From: Gerry Bello [mailto:gerrybello@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 10:07 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center One would hope so. However I'm not the one to approach them and any conversation with them should focus around what they want. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "ilse moon" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "Alumni Chat List" >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center >Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 21:51:39 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc12-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sat, 4 >Aug 2007 18:51:44 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA4960DFD33;Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:05:10 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net >[206.18.177.53])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA0EC60DFD25for >; Sat, 4 Aug 2007 22:05:08 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from ilsedesktop >(c-68-34-155-99.hsd1.fl.comcast.net[68.34.155.99])by comcast.net >(alnrmhc13) with SMTPid <20070805015140b1300edqaae>; Sun, 5 Aug 2007 >01:51:40 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >vGzX0e+ktu6aNhPd9FyTTsMhy6i6gxhMaFbgDWGYS09sMV26qc1+CSDhnh/xxTLQ77CxJQoIuzX x2bW9oTjoYA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Aug 2007 01:51:44.0499 (UTC) >FILETIME=[2D1B5C30:01C7D703] > >Can that justifiable anger be used to help save the Center, the college and >the Glen? They have a lot of friends. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Bello" >To: >Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 7:52 PM >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center > > >>The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT >>during the faculty meeting. >> >>They are LIVID! >> >>What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control >>they will never trust the institution as a whole again. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to >>win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Alumni-chat mailing list >>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: >>269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 21:39:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 21:52:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi again Bob: By the way, thanks for your input but I was actually asking if anyone asked Dr. Lawry exactly what he said to the admissions staff since a description of it was mentioned in the article. I don't think you can say he shared similar comments with the full faculty until we know for sure exactly what he said. Don't you think we should go to the source to check accusations? You've mentioned slander and libel a bunch of times on this list which is just another reason to check facts, no? Thanks for your concern. Debra Bob said: Debra, President Lawry shared similar comments publicly with the full faculty of the College 10/31/06. All of us present can attest to his focus on mental health issues as being central to attracting and retaining students to the College. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 22:57:28 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 23:10:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Email to: Diane Chiddister, Editor, Yellow Springs News CC: Antioch College Office of Admissions and Financial Aid Dean Jennifer Rhyner and Antioch College President Steven Lawry Dear Ms. Chiddister: Participants in the antiochians.org forum have asked if Antioch College President Steven Lawry -- as was reported in your story "College?s inconsistent support stymied admissions process" (Yellow Springs News, June 26, 2007) -- "addressed the admissions staff last year and requested that they recruit only students without mental health problems." The statement, written in your words, is sourced to "several employees." Antioch Office of Admissions and Financial Aid Dean Jennifer Rhyner declined to comment for the article. There is no mention of an attempt to contact President Lawry in the article. Chancellor Toni Murdock also declined to comment directly to other issues regarding funding of the Antioch College Office of Admissions, but asked Antioch University spokesperson Mary Lou LaPierre to reply on her behalf, according to the article. I believe the Admissions staff members' allegations of discrimination against the mentally ill -- a protected class of people under the Americans with Disabilities Act -- are serious. Interested in bringing light to this issue, I emailed a letter to The National Alliance on Mental Illness, "the nation?s largest grassroots mental health organization dedicated to improving the lives of persons living with serious mental illness and their families [from the NAMI Web site]." I asked NAMI to review your article. My email to NAMI and subsequent discussion of your article and the Antioch staff member's allegations can be found at: http://antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=19792&p=1 . Participants at the antiochians.org forum have called your reporting and the Admissions staff members' statements into question because your multiple sources requested anonymity. I'm copying this message to Dean Rhyner and President Lawry and formally requesting, as an alumnus, that they respond to these reports of alleged preemptive exclusion of the mentally ill in the Antioch College admissions process. Permission to share your response would be appreciated. Alan Benard, B.A. Antioch '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 23:40:57 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 23:53:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2e54848b861c83a9abbc428d67ddbb7f@www.antiochians.org> Thanks for your effort Alan. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Chiddister didn't want to reveal her sources and I would support her in that. This is why I suggested someone ask Dr. Lawry directly. Thanks again. Debra >Email to: Diane Chiddister, Editor, Yellow Springs News >CC: Antioch College Office of Admissions and Financial Aid Dean Jennifer Rhyner and Antioch College President Steven Lawry > >Dear Ms. Chiddister: > >Participants in the antiochians.org forum have asked if Antioch College President Steven Lawry -- as was reported in your story "College?s inconsistent support stymied admissions process" (Yellow Springs News, June 26, 2007) -- "addressed the admissions staff last year and requested that they recruit only students without mental health problems." The statement, written in your words, is sourced to "several employees." > >Antioch Office of Admissions and Financial Aid Dean Jennifer Rhyner declined to comment for the article. There is no mention of an attempt to contact President Lawry in the article. Chancellor Toni Murdock also declined to comment directly to other issues regarding funding of the Antioch College Office of Admissions, but asked Antioch University spokesperson Mary Lou LaPierre to reply on her behalf, according to the article. > >I believe the Admissions staff members' allegations of discrimination against the mentally ill -- a protected class of people under the Americans with Disabilities Act -- are serious. Interested in bringing light to this issue, I emailed a letter to The National Alliance on Mental Illness, "the nation?s largest grassroots mental health organization dedicated to improving the lives of persons living with serious mental illness and their families [from the NAMI Web site]." I asked NAMI to review your article. > >My email to NAMI and subsequent discussion of your article and the Antioch staff member's allegations can be found at: >http://antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=19792&p=1 . > >Participants at the antiochians.org forum have called your reporting and the Admissions staff members' statements into question because your multiple sources requested anonymity. I'm copying this message to Dean Rhyner and President Lawry and formally requesting, as an alumnus, that they respond to these reports of alleged preemptive exclusion of the mentally ill in the Antioch College admissions process. > >Permission to share your response would be appreciated. > >Alan Benard, B.A. Antioch '92 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 23:45:45 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sun Aug 5 23:58:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <2e54848b861c83a9abbc428d67ddbb7f@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4cd64ecd79a506cc175b900979d72427@antiochians.org> >Thanks for your effort Alan. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Chiddister didn't want to reveal her sources and I would support her in that. This is why I suggested someone ask Dr. Lawry directly. > >Thanks again. > >Debra Debra, I just did. Why don't you ask him, you're so interested? Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 23:51:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 00:04:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <4cd64ecd79a506cc175b900979d72427@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <8febf1feb62b12f79c59ad4ab2058b86@www.antiochians.org> >>Thanks for your effort Alan. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Chiddister didn't want to reveal her sources and I would support her in that. This is why I suggested someone ask Dr. Lawry directly. >> >>Thanks again. >> >>Debra >Debra, I just did. > >Why don't you ask him, you're so interested? > >Alan Because then she wouldnt be busy being a pain in the ass to people here. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 5 23:59:29 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 00:12:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <8febf1feb62b12f79c59ad4ab2058b86@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <09992002022ab52acf4cde969604bdbd@antiochians.org> >>>Thanks for your effort Alan. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. Chiddister didn't want to reveal her sources and I would support her in that. This is why I suggested someone ask Dr. Lawry directly. >>> >>>Thanks again. >>> >>>Debra >>Debra, I just did. >> >>Why don't you ask him, you're so interested? >> >>Alan >Because then she wouldnt be busy being a pain in the ass to people here. Or flaunt her genius brain and her master plan to get someone sued for libel. Good luck, Deb! Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 00:44:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 00:57:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <09992002022ab52acf4cde969604bdbd@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <5af0ce304dce7d43d2cbd326ea3d8719@antiochians.org> Deb said: Alan: Allow me to add pseudo-clairvoyant to the other impressive skills undoubtedly adorning your resume. You've sure got me figured out! (FYI, that was sarcasm.) Good night, Sherlock. Deb Alan said: Or flaunt her genius brain and her master plan to get someone sued for libel. Good luck, Deb! From sjr5 at nyu.edu Mon Aug 6 02:10:40 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Mon Aug 6 02:23:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <8febf1feb62b12f79c59ad4ab2058b86@www.antiochians.org> References: <4cd64ecd79a506cc175b900979d72427@antiochians.org> <8febf1feb62b12f79c59ad4ab2058b86@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Gerry and Alan, your flame wars and troll behavior are far more tiring to people on this list than Deb's digging after facts. Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" Date: Sunday, August 5, 2007 11:51 pm Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>Thanks for your effort Alan. I wouldn't be surprised if Ms. > Chiddister didn't want to reveal her sources and I would support her > in that. This is why I suggested someone ask Dr. Lawry directly. > >> > >>Thanks again. > >> > >>Debra > >Debra, I just did. > > > >Why don't you ask him, you're so interested? > > > >Alan > Because then she wouldnt be busy being a pain in the ass to people here. > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today!G From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 08:42:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 08:56:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <17f268fc2389ad4627bee18026fcda7c@antiochians.org> >Gerry and Alan, your flame wars and troll behavior are far more tiring to people on this list than Deb's digging after facts. > >Sonia Jaffe Robbins Needling people is digging after the facts? Where's her letter to Lawry? Pot, kettle, etc. Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 09:33:20 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 09:46:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8ad8dbabcd8562bba876b56c3fa53701@antiochians.org> Gerry, I'm not aware of any King family reps at Reunion. I think we would have heard through Paula Treichler or Jane Garrison who is in regular communication with Edith, Mrs. King's older sister, who also attended Antioch. I certainly think there is concern about the family name. Some of us asked early on if anyone was checking in with members of the family regarding the college's plan to maintain the Center. For Toni to tell the press that lawyers are looking over the agreement is shameful! Callie >The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT >during the faculty meeting. > >They are LIVID! > >What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control >they will never trust the institution as a whole again. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to >win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 09:36:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 09:50:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] New Forum: Ask the Alumni Board In-Reply-To: <863325F8E99749A59DAA2534AA2B9DF4@NewDell> Message-ID: <3e557bec2b9027c51de342f91642cfe0@antiochians.org> >Hey Alumni Chat, > >The NJ alumni chapter is going to try to round up the 250+ New Jersey >Antiochians and try to get them on board with making a pledge of money and >support to keep Antioch open and to make a donation to the Faculty Legal >Fund. > > Don't forget to cross-post in the Chapters forum, under NJ! Thanks! From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 6 09:40:49 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 6 09:54:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: <8ad8dbabcd8562bba876b56c3fa53701@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Gerry, >I'm not aware of any King family reps at Reunion. I think we would have >heard through Paula Treichler or Jane Garrison who is in regular >communication with Edith, Mrs. King's older sister, who also attended >Antioch. I certainly think there is concern about the family name. Some >of us asked early on if anyone was checking in with members of the family >regarding the college's plan to maintain the Center. For Toni to tell the >press that lawyers are looking over the agreement is shameful! > >Callie > > >The King Family had representatives at Reunion. They met with the BoT > >during the faculty meeting. > > > >They are LIVID! > > > >What I fear, is even if we manage to restore the college and take control > >they will never trust the institution as a whole again. > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to > >win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Alumni-chat mailing list > >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 09:48:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 10:01:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <17f268fc2389ad4627bee18026fcda7c@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <3fa195986846cf634e91b7f367d19ebc@antiochians.org> Folks, Skooter, who is on this list and worked in Admissions at the time, is also someone you can ask about the presentation Lawry made to Admissions. He's quoted throughout the YS article. My understanding is that what Lawry was telling Admissions and the Faculty was also presented to the BoT, but you'd have to check with a Trustee on that. The College's Counseling staff can also be contacted regarding the comments since they had a faily strong reaction to the presentation. Linda Sattum (lsattem@antioch-college.edu), director of counseling, might comment on that. I suspect that the YS News wouldn't have printed the information without verifying it with more than one source. Callie >>Gerry and Alan, your flame wars and troll behavior are far more tiring to people on this list than Deb's digging after facts. >> >>Sonia Jaffe Robbins >Needling people is digging after the facts? Where's her letter to Lawry? > >Pot, kettle, etc. > >Alan > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From eayres at comcast.net Mon Aug 6 10:44:07 2007 From: eayres at comcast.net (E. Daniel Ayres) Date: Mon Aug 6 10:58:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome> References: <000501c7d161$01790610$046b1230$@net> <071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: <001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net> Howard: As long as there are graduates with clear memory of "the way it was" and the energy to promote and support the evolution required to keep that vision alive, killing off the college does not make sense to me. I know that my wife would differ. She experienced the cultural blind spot our liberal institution had back in the '60s with regard to "In Loco Parentis" and felt at age 19 and a newlywed, totally helpless when I started cracking under the weight of stresses I'd brought on myself as I tried to "air out" the issue of drug use among college students in the summer of 1965. There were a lot of people I had contact with who did not want to get involved. In light of things I've learned recently about the history of the "wellness center" and the decisions to restrict the location of co-op employment centers, it is obvious that the parents capable of paying tuition to the college over the past few years have demanded and received significant change on that front. I also suspect that recruitment got driven toward a less diverse population of potential students by the gradual erosion of some of the traditional curricular tracks, especially those designed to produce scientists and engineers. I personally believe that the essential Antioch College needs to include a more robust and entrepreneurial approach to the issue of co-operative education. A "year round calendar" seems essential to me in this regard, and the decision taken many years ago to allow for a more traditional "summer vacation" and to convert most of the co-op experience to internships, many of which do not carry any significant economic benefit to the student, represented a serious dilution of the core of the Antioch I support. Mark Pomerantz's papers on "Social Entrepreneurship" informed by the experiences of the Antioch of the depression years when students found that co-op employers were not available seems to me to be an important direction to pursue. The enterprise for the sustainable future can emerge from a revived and refocused Antioch College. It requires a culture informed by the history of the cooperative movement along with updates to their social and organizational technologies which reflect more current scientific knowledge regarding how organizations and social movements are built and maintained. It also requires the idealism which makes it possible to forego an unsustainable life style and lead others in the directions which make sense for the future of society and the planet. Elements of everything needed to save and improve Antioch College exist. It will take the will and a lot of hard work and some sacrifices along the way to achieve. I'm not praying for some "dollar a year man" to step up. It would be great if somebody like George Soros or even Bill Gates could be convinced to step in and fund the transition to the vision which is needed, but it will probably be a better, more sustainable institution if the community does it on its' own, building consensus, tapping its own resources, and refining and using the traditions of the various generations of Antiochians who have been forged in the Yellow Springs heat. The way forward is not going to be without controversy, but the alternative of "giving up" on Antioch is short sighted. Right now, far too few institutions see their missions with the grand and essential vision expressed by Horace Mann's "Be afraid to die." There are still some very important blows to be struck in service to humanity. Top on my list, finding a way to promote and allow a gradual draw-down of human population without the break in the social fabric that leads to chaos and destruction. Our economic institutions and governments are all organized and around the assumption of continuous "growth and development." This could easily be the fatal flaw in human culture which tips the balance and leads to extinction. A new Antioch does not need to be large, it needs to produce citizens of a sustainable future society who have the vision and the energy to accomplish that goal. From: Howard at Glenn Riddle [mailto:howardh0336@comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 5:37 PM To: E. Daniel Ayres Subject: Re: Blast from the past... Hi Dan, It is good to hear from you. In the early 1970's I was part of a group in Ithaca, NY that tried to change the direction that Antioch was heading. Rod Sterling was part of it. We wrote letters. But the BOT did not listen. I think we need to recognize that the patient is dead and move on. Maybe some other college could buy the campus and it will be like a "residential college" with special rules, etc. I think we should work to set up a museum to preserve the way it was. That is the best we can do. Howard Hammerman 1966 ----- Original Message ----- From: E. Daniel Ayres To: howardh0336@comcast.net Cc: Alumni Chat List Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: Blast from the past... Howard: How can you not want to see the traditions of the Antioch College we attended preserved? IMHO, it all did go downhill after we left. I know I tried with everything I had to get the institution to take a good look at what students were doing with drugs and, at least by implication, figure out how to react and to provide adequate support and protection for students not worldly enough to take care of themselves. Even back then, "the administration" did not always listen, but. IMHO that isn't the issue here. The issue is whether somehow we can salvage and preserve the "good things" from the Antioch College culture and tradition. I personally wonder if BoT members recognized up front that it would take about four years for a fairly open process to arrive at any kind of fundable consensus about what Antioch College should look like in the 21st Century. It is certainly clear to me that what was left in 2006-7 wasn't viable long term. A significant portion of the responsibility for that fact can be attributed to the Alumnae who scattered to the four winds and focused with typical Antiochian intensity on the next thing in their lives after Antioch. Blame the institution for not being more activist and sensitive about the need to preserve and nurture the sense of community with fellow classmates which existed, and the culture which has always supported a somewhat confrontational dialogue. E. Daniel Ayres, '66 734-395-9141 (cell) http://home.comcast.net/~eayres From bobabramspe at webtv.net Mon Aug 6 10:55:16 2007 From: bobabramspe at webtv.net (Robert Abrams) Date: Mon Aug 6 11:08:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost Message-ID: At the risk of boring you all I am accepting the invitation to be repetitious. Antioch College needs to find a way to attract students away from the competition. Coop programs, education abroad and interdisciplinary teaching are good but they are available elsewhere. I think the key is to build a reputation for having a curriculum which addresses the need for scientists and engineers who are able to solve the conditions which are causing the great issue of this century: how to reverse the climatic change that we now know without doubt will occur because of the greenhouse effect. This will be expensive. Present lab equipment is probably obsolete or inadequate. Such a curriculum would make a good fit with coop, Aea and interdisciplinary teaching. AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) -----Original Message----- From: Sistersara@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2007 12:11 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In a message dated 8/5/2007 8:31:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, aadole@adelphia.net writes: As has been said on this chat before, if Revival is to succeed, we need to know what went wrong. Art Dole '46 Amen -- and I noticed on the notes regarding what the Alumni Board is considering, realizing they have no finished plan at this juncture, no such analysis is even suggested. So perhaps it needs to be mentioned over and over again. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 11:41:24 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 11:54:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net> Message-ID: <73e41b56ba381d14c1539a81bc5c6c71@antiochians.org> If you're yearning for the good old days, just turn off the air conditioning. ~Griff Niblack People seem to get nostalgic about a lot of things they weren't so crazy about the first time around. ~Author Unknown The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealized past. ~Robertson Davies, A Voice from the Attic [i]t becomes increasingly easy, as you get older, to drown in nostalgia. ~Ted Koppel Nostalgia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days. ~Doug Larson Things ain't what they used to be and probably never was. ~Will Rogers Nostalgia is a seductive liar. ~George Wildman Ball Nothing is more responsible for the good old days than a bad memory. ~Franklin Pierce Adams Who wants to live with one foot in hell just for the sake of nostalgia? Our time is forever now! ~Alice Childress From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 11:56:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (RichardCampbell (photocafe@earthlink.net)) Date: Mon Aug 6 12:09:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Coretta Scott King Center In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <52690339c482ac1b75de7a06807f2cf6@antiochians.org> >Dear Alumni and Friends of Antioch College, > >I was heartened by the inclusion of the CSK Center in the considerations you are requiring of the BOT. I have been very involved with the Center during and following its creation. I was also honored to be one of the four who met with Mrs. King and asked if we could use her name to bring attention to the Center's mission. I have said publicly that it is indeed one thing for Beverly Rodgers to go belly up and totally another for something named for Mrs. King to fail. > >Only two entities have Mrs. King's name--a children's literature award and the Center. Even the children's lit award has an Antioch connection. One of Mrs. King's co-ops was a New York library. Her supervisor stayed in touch with her and it was this supervisor who asked Mrs. King to lend her name to the award. > >I have spoken with Dana Patterson and she has told me that the "University" has told her that if she could raise enough funds to sustain the Center, it would continue to exist. If she could not, it would be closed. I cannot imagine a more sound indication that the University does not share Antioch's mission. > >I feel betrayed and somewhat guilty for my role in securing Mrs. King's blessing and name for the Center. If there is anything I can do to ensure its continuation, I will be there. > >Thank you all for your dedication, thoughtfulness and organization in working to maintain this unique and valuable institution. > >Beverly Rodgers >Associate Professor of Anthropology >Antioch College > >Dear Beverly, > >You should not feel anything but deep pride for securing the well earned association of Antioch College and the late Mrs. King. The University BOT should be held to a legal standard regarding the King Center, as well as a formal responsibility to uphold its values as a part of the college history, the BOT and the Chancellor should be legally bound to supporting the King Center financially. This callous disregard for the history of the college, and one of its most beloved graduates, needs to be brought to the attention of the media as yet one more example of why Antioch College should seek independence. > >Sincerely, >Richard Campbell >Alum >Boston, MA > >There is no Antioch University without Antioch College. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From marklp2 at comcast.net Mon Aug 6 12:11:50 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Mon Aug 6 12:25:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005901c7d844$8084a1a0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> As Pam Olsen also said the key is integrating professional education such as "green science" into the liberal arts context. Mark P. '71 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Abrams Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:55 AM To: Alumni Chat List Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost At the risk of boring you all I am accepting the invitation to be repetitious. Antioch College needs to find a way to attract students away from the competition. Coop programs, education abroad and interdisciplinary teaching are good but they are available elsewhere. I think the key is to build a reputation for having a curriculum which addresses the need for scientists and engineers who are able to solve the conditions which are causing the great issue of this century: how to reverse the climatic change that we now know without doubt will occur because of the greenhouse effect. This will be expensive. Present lab equipment is probably obsolete or inadequate. Such a curriculum would make a good fit with coop, Aea and interdisciplinary teaching. AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) -----Original Message----- From: Sistersara@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2007 12:11 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In a message dated 8/5/2007 8:31:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, aadole@adelphia.net writes: As has been said on this chat before, if Revival is to succeed, we need to know what went wrong. Art Dole '46 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 12:15:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (deb_goodman (goodmand@gtlaw.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 12:28:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <3fa195986846cf634e91b7f367d19ebc@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <198765806857440f8215cc9e9d9e45f5@www.antiochians.org> Callie: Thanks for your e-mail. I know Skooter was quoted in the article and gave his interpretation of the content of Dr. Lawry's comments to admissions. You may have an understanding of this either by having been at one or both of the meetings or you may have heard about it from Bob. Are you working in admissions at the college? Were you present at either the admissions or faculty meetings at which Dr. Lawry spoke? I note that some fairly strong action was taken (letter to NAMI, trashing of Dr. Lawry on the boards, etc.) in reaction to the article. I'm not seeking various people's interpretation of what Dr. Lawry meant based on first or second hand information, I'm seeking to find out exactly what he said. Hence, I think going directly to the source is always the best idea. I don't suspect any foul play or malevolence which can be attribtuted to the YS News. There was no direct quote attributed to Dr. Lawry in the article. Period. I'm not attacking. I'm just trying to get the facts. My questions shouldn't be so abhorrent to so many critical thinkers, in my opinioin. Best, Deb Callie said: Folks, Skooter, who is on this list and worked in Admissions at the time, is also someone you can ask about the presentation Lawry made to Admissions. He's quoted throughout the YS article. My understanding is that what Lawry was telling Admissions and the Faculty was also presented to the BoT, but you'd have to check with a Trustee on that. The College's Counseling staff can also be contacted regarding the comments since they had a faily strong reaction to the presentation. Linda Sattum (lsattem@antioch-college.edu), director of counseling, might comment on that. I suspect that the YS News wouldn't have printed the information without verifying it with more than one source. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 13:16:31 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jude (judemers@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 13:29:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Jude Demers '97 log in Antioch Mcgregor DDN today met Dr. Al Guskin Message-ID: <82476b991610b51f4740b2d9b6797b04@antiochians.org> for the first time yesterday he is good people I was the first to ask his help in saving the college Is everyone aware that he saved us in the early nineties? He is seventy now and says that he does not think he has the energy He is teaching the Leadership and Change PHD students up in the Science building on Antioch College's campus as far as that goes, the basement had been redone since the last time I'd been in our science building new tile carpet and pictures of old scientists who have since past I believe I am in WSU Paul Laurence Dunbar library of all places beautiful windows and a replica of the wright brother's plane saw dave Peterson in chicago trieing to link him up with other chi town alum saw antioch alum mural dedicated as a memorial to the life of Wyatt Mitchell in Hyde Park in Chicago this kid helped found the University of Hip Hop at the South West Youth Collaborative otherwise my other moms is in the PHD program the students travel to every Antioch campus and study for a week and then graduate on our mound 9373019064 From theodora at imbris.com Mon Aug 6 13:35:31 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Mon Aug 6 13:45:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] students with mental health problems Message-ID: For a year after I graduated from Antioch, I worked in the Admissions Office, so that I could stay in Yellow Springs. There was a question on the application, "Have you every been in therapy?" (or had counseling, or some such thing). If the answer was yes, the application was pretty much automatically rejected. I was distressed about this, since some therapy in high school could actually make a student better prepared for Antioch than those who had had no such opportunity, so I mentioned it to the director of the counseling services, and he managed to get the question removed from the application. Apparently, it's been put back on. That being said, as a psychologist, I shudder at the thought of "mentally ill" at Antioch, depending on what is meant by that, and what supports are provided. Yes, many young people experience depression, anxiety, identity problems, etc. If there is one thing Antioch needed in the 60s and probably will always need (perhaps any college does), it's a robust counseling service that can help students with these more or less normal growing pains sort through the "overstimulation", and constant challenges to one's values, if you will, that happens on Antioch's campus. Severe mental illness is something else entirely, and so are personality disorders, which some people do not consider mental illness, and some people do. The severely mentally ill need structure, predictable routine, consistent medical and therapeutic support, low stress, and sensitive people around them who aren't going to constantly challenge their world views. Can Antioch really offer them such an environment? Without such things, they are extremely vulnerable to episodes of illness, and that can be very dangerous, especially to them, and sometimes to the people around them. If individuals with a history of this type of illness can show that they can handle such an environment, then fine, they should have the opportunity like anyone else (with appropriate supports at Antioch). But to accept them merely because its the politically correct thing to do invites disaster, in my opinion, both for them and for the College. CErtainly they have a right to an education, but they would be happier and more successful, most of them, in a more structured and predictable environment. And to not try and exclude individuals with severe personality disorders is also very problematic. By definition, such individuals have very distorted views of themselves and others, tend to perceive others as extentions of themselves rather than as individuals (in other words, they use, con and manipulate others), they have very unstable relationships, they chronically violate the rights and needs of others, they tend to idealize and/or devalue others and have serious difficulties seeing people as whole imperfect people (thus, devalue them when others don't exactly match their own view of the world in some way). They seem to thrive on chaos in their relationships, and so forth. They can be extremely disruptive to small communities because, in essence, they are, generally speaking, incapable of caring about much of anything but their own agenda (and they often need to generate chaos). It's also very hard to identify them in something like a college application. They can be very charming and cooperative on the surface, and truly mean to be that way all the time, but it's shallow and they can't sustain it. History is very important in getting a sense of such folks. Some of these people can be helped with therapy, most cannot for the simple reason that they aren't motivated to change (and changing such a personality structure is very difficult. It takes commitment, a skilled therapist, and a long time). For this reason, any college campus should have a clear code of ethics and behavior that requires genuine respect for other students and for the faculty. Expressing diverse opinions and questioning the status quo can be done in respectful and civil ways. Individuals who violate the rights and needs of others and the community should, I think, be asked to leave, certainly if such behavior is violent or is chronic. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 13:44:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 13:58:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <198765806857440f8215cc9e9d9e45f5@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <17e0997c7bba33f5d7d4acc1b3937832@antiochians.org> Steve Lawry's e-mail slawry@antioch-college.edu Office number 937-769-1260 I won't ask that you transcribe his comments back to the group. Although we won't all be present to hear Steve's exact words, in the spirit of the honor code, I, for one, am willing to accept your interpretation of his comments. If he's willing to reply at all to this topic and does so via e-mail, then I would assume, with his permission, you'll be able to post his comments verbatim. Go for it. >Callie: > >Thanks for your e-mail. I know Skooter was quoted in the article and gave his interpretation of the content of Dr. Lawry's comments to admissions. You may have an understanding of this either by having been at one or both of the meetings or you may have heard about it from Bob. Are you working in admissions at the college? Were you present at either the admissions or faculty meetings at which Dr. Lawry spoke? > >I note that some fairly strong action was taken (letter to NAMI, trashing of Dr. Lawry on the boards, etc.) in reaction to the article. I'm not seeking various people's interpretation of what Dr. Lawry meant based on first or second hand information, I'm seeking to find out exactly what he said. Hence, I think going directly to the source is always the best idea. I don't suspect any foul play or malevolence which can be attribtuted to the YS News. There was no direct quote attributed to Dr. Lawry in the article. Period. > >I'm not attacking. I'm just trying to get the facts. My questions shouldn't be so abhorrent to so many critical thinkers, in my opinioin. > >Best, >Deb > > >Callie said: > >Folks, >Skooter, who is on this list and worked in Admissions at the time, is also someone you can ask about the presentation Lawry made to Admissions. He's quoted throughout the YS article. My understanding is that what Lawry was telling Admissions and the Faculty was also presented to the BoT, but you'd have to check with a Trustee on that. The College's Counseling staff can also be contacted regarding the comments since they had a faily strong reaction to the presentation. Linda Sattum (lsattem@antioch-college.edu), director of counseling, might comment on that. I suspect that the YS News wouldn't have printed the information without verifying it with more than one source. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 13:48:00 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 14:01:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] students with mental health problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Pam - what's the rough time frame for that year in admissions? >For a year after I graduated from Antioch, I worked in the Admissions >Office, so that I could stay in Yellow Springs. There was a question on the >application, "Have you every been in therapy?" (or had counseling, or some >such thing). If the answer was yes, the application was pretty much >automatically rejected. > >I was distressed about this, since some therapy in high school could >actually make a student better prepared for Antioch than those who had had >no such opportunity, so I mentioned it to the director of the counseling >services, and he managed to get the question removed from the application. >Apparently, it's been put back on. > >That being said, as a psychologist, I shudder at the thought of "mentally >ill" at Antioch, depending on what is meant by that, and what supports are >provided. Yes, many young people experience depression, anxiety, identity >problems, etc. If there is one thing Antioch needed in the 60s and >probably will always need (perhaps any college does), it's a robust >counseling service that can help students with these more or less normal >growing pains sort through the "overstimulation", and constant challenges to >one's values, if you will, that happens on Antioch's campus. > >Severe mental illness is something else entirely, and so are personality >disorders, which some people do not consider mental illness, and some people >do. The severely mentally ill need structure, predictable routine, >consistent medical and therapeutic support, low stress, and sensitive people >around them who aren't going to constantly challenge their world views. Can >Antioch really offer them such an environment? Without such things, they >are extremely vulnerable to episodes of illness, and that can be very >dangerous, especially to them, and sometimes to the people around them. If >individuals with a history of this type of illness can show that they can >handle such an environment, then fine, they should have the opportunity like >anyone else (with appropriate supports at Antioch). But to accept them >merely because its the politically correct thing to do invites disaster, in >my opinion, both for them and for the College. CErtainly they have a right >to an education, but they would be happier and more successful, most of >them, in a more structured and predictable environment. > >And to not try and exclude individuals with severe personality disorders is >also very problematic. By definition, such individuals have very distorted >views of themselves and others, tend to perceive others as extentions of >themselves rather than as individuals (in other words, they use, con and >manipulate others), they have very unstable relationships, they chronically >violate the rights and needs of others, they tend to idealize and/or devalue >others and have serious difficulties seeing people as whole imperfect people >(thus, devalue them when others don't exactly match their own view of the >world in some way). They seem to thrive on chaos in their relationships, >and so forth. They can be extremely disruptive to small communities >because, in essence, they are, generally speaking, incapable of caring about >much of anything but their own agenda (and they often need to generate >chaos). It's also very hard to identify them in something like a college >application. They can be very charming and cooperative on the surface, and >truly mean to be that way all the time, but it's shallow and they can't >sustain it. History is very important in getting a sense of such folks. >Some of these people can be helped with therapy, most cannot for the simple >reason that they aren't motivated to change (and changing such a personality >structure is very difficult. It takes commitment, a skilled therapist, and >a long time). > >For this reason, any college campus should have a clear code of ethics and >behavior that requires genuine respect for other students and for the >faculty. Expressing diverse opinions and questioning the status quo can be >done in respectful and civil ways. Individuals who violate the rights and >needs of others and the community should, I think, be asked to leave, >certainly if such behavior is violent or is chronic. > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 14:14:44 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 14:27:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] students with mental health problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pam: Thanks for your post and for the work you did to encourage due process and nuance in these decisions. Here is a link to a description of how transcripts from the "mentally ill" were flagged and given due-process consideration by a committee at the time the poster worked at Antioch Admissions. I'm not in favor of severely ill people attending Antioch for the reasons you stated. However, I am also not in favor of the preemtive rejection of any applicant who admits to having been treated for depression. http://antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=27332#p27332 An excerpt from the post, by Seth Gordon: >Students with physical, learning or, mental disabilities that self-disclosed were flagged. In addition, anyone over 23 (or 25), low gpa, home-schooled (in absence of traditional evaluation materials like a transcript), or simply a poorly written essay or an essay with a disturbing or inapropriate topic were all flagged for Special Review. This committee allowed people like myself an opportunity for a second opinion from people who had more expertise and would ultimately be serving these students. Of course these criteria may have changed as may have the process. > >This committee had six members -- admissions, dean of students, academic support, counseling, a co-op faculty and an academic faculty. Being put in special review was not, in itself, a negative. This was an opportunity for the staff at the college to be sure of anyone who had special needs and for the institution to evaluate whether it had the capacity to serve this student within the confines of its resources. Some students were often quite easy to evaluate -- such as home -schoolers; others were more difficult. So for example a 24 year old student may have seemed benign but a 42 year old on a residential campus was important to consider --both for them and for the students. The impression one is left with, given that the report in the Yellow Springs News is accurate, is that this process was short-circuited at the first reading of application. There's a lot of pining for the "good old days" on this forum by some, and I guess that's what these folks mean -- unfair and presently illegal discrimination in the admission process without consideration by the college's professional staff under established due process. It sure was a lot more simple back then in those front porch and lemonade days. Alan Benard From wasb at albany.edu Mon Aug 6 14:18:53 2007 From: wasb at albany.edu (Stephen L. Wasby) Date: Mon Aug 6 14:32:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] students with mental health problems References: Message-ID: <001601c7d856$3f9cb490$5f761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Pam Olsen's thoughtful response prompts a couple of comments: (1) As hall advisers ("back in the day"), we were told not to be first-line therapists, but to be ready to refer people whom we believe had problems. And there was Fran Lembke, and there was Fels (with such folks as the later-famous Jerry Kagan) . . . (2) I agree that identifying mental disturbance, or, what is more likely, attributing certain behavior to mental disturbance, is highly problematic. One can, however, deal with behavior -- and can discipline (up to and including removal from a dorm or the campus) for behavior which is disruptive and dysfunctional. I cannot speak for Steve Lawry, but I think he was seeking to deal with disruption and dysfunctionality (as he saw it) -- to have put it in terms of mental illness, a field in which he is not (as far as I am aware) trained, was unwise (at a minimum). Steve Wasby '59 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Olsen" To: Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] students with mental health problems > For a year after I graduated from Antioch, I worked in the Admissions > Office, so that I could stay in Yellow Springs. There was a question on > the > application, "Have you every been in therapy?" (or had counseling, or some > such thing). If the answer was yes, the application was pretty much > automatically rejected. > > I was distressed about this, since some therapy in high school could > actually make a student better prepared for Antioch than those who had had > no such opportunity, so I mentioned it to the director of the counseling > services, and he managed to get the question removed from the application. > Apparently, it's been put back on. > > That being said, as a psychologist, I shudder at the thought of "mentally > ill" at Antioch, depending on what is meant by that, and what supports are > provided. Yes, many young people experience depression, anxiety, identity > problems, etc. If there is one thing Antioch needed in the 60s and > probably will always need (perhaps any college does), it's a robust > counseling service that can help students with these more or less normal > growing pains sort through the "overstimulation", and constant challenges > to > one's values, if you will, that happens on Antioch's campus. > > Severe mental illness is something else entirely, and so are personality > disorders, which some people do not consider mental illness, and some > people > do. The severely mentally ill need structure, predictable routine, > consistent medical and therapeutic support, low stress, and sensitive > people > around them who aren't going to constantly challenge their world views. > Can > Antioch really offer them such an environment? Without such things, they > are extremely vulnerable to episodes of illness, and that can be very > dangerous, especially to them, and sometimes to the people around them. > If > individuals with a history of this type of illness can show that they can > handle such an environment, then fine, they should have the opportunity > like > anyone else (with appropriate supports at Antioch). But to accept them > merely because its the politically correct thing to do invites disaster, > in > my opinion, both for them and for the College. CErtainly they have a right > to an education, but they would be happier and more successful, most of > them, in a more structured and predictable environment. > > And to not try and exclude individuals with severe personality disorders > is > also very problematic. By definition, such individuals have very > distorted > views of themselves and others, tend to perceive others as extentions of > themselves rather than as individuals (in other words, they use, con and > manipulate others), they have very unstable relationships, they > chronically > violate the rights and needs of others, they tend to idealize and/or > devalue > others and have serious difficulties seeing people as whole imperfect > people > (thus, devalue them when others don't exactly match their own view of the > world in some way). They seem to thrive on chaos in their relationships, > and so forth. They can be extremely disruptive to small communities > because, in essence, they are, generally speaking, incapable of caring > about > much of anything but their own agenda (and they often need to generate > chaos). It's also very hard to identify them in something like a > college > application. They can be very charming and cooperative on the surface, > and > truly mean to be that way all the time, but it's shallow and they can't > sustain it. History is very important in getting a sense of such folks. > Some of these people can be helped with therapy, most cannot for the > simple > reason that they aren't motivated to change (and changing such a > personality > structure is very difficult. It takes commitment, a skilled therapist, > and > a long time). > > For this reason, any college campus should have a clear code of ethics and > behavior that requires genuine respect for other students and for the > faculty. Expressing diverse opinions and questioning the status quo can > be > done in respectful and civil ways. Individuals who violate the rights and > needs of others and the community should, I think, be asked to leave, > certainly if such behavior is violent or is chronic. > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.6/938 - Release Date: 8/5/2007 > 4:16 PM > > From marklp2 at comcast.net Mon Aug 6 18:08:06 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Mon Aug 6 18:21:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net> References: <000501c7d161$01790610$046b1230$@net><071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome> <001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net> Message-ID: <00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Well said Dan, What is often overlooked here is the element of leadership. Sometimes that means innovation---forming the new idea. Sometimes it means entrepreneurship, figuring out how to successfully implement the new idea. Sometimes, what's needed is just good management that keeps the institution going. We've had a lot of innovation at Antioch but very little entrepreneurship. Steve Lawry is a manager, maybe a good one if he had a chance, but he is not an entrepreneur. In the past Antioch has been known for its leadership. Arthur Morgan who took an institution that had always been unsuccessful (our misty eyed impressions of Horace Mann aside, the stresses of dealing with the conservative founders of Antioch killed him within a few years of his arrival in YSO) and made it into one of the top colleges in the US, Douglas McGregor, an Antioch President who became famous as an organizational psychologist and the "father of humanistic management" at MIT, Warren Bennis, an Antioch Student and Board Member, still involved with the Antioch PhD program and an international figure in leadership and change. I'll stop there before we get onto any later figures to avoid controversy. We need entrepreneurial leadership now if there is going to continue to be an Antioch College. Whether the College has its own board or not there is a need for a leader who has a vision that they can successfully implement. We have made a lot of progress I think in starting to formulate some of the elements of that vision. 'Interdisciplinary education' just as Antioch has always had since Morgan. 'Green Science' as Robert Abrams has talked about which we need in order to figure out how to deal with globing warming et al. 'Sustainability Studies' as Dan Ayres and Pam Olsen have alluded to which means taking care of our personal health as well as the planet's. 'Social Entrepreneurship', which I've frequently mentioned, involving a more powerful, reinvigorated nonprofit sector and tying in well with existing service learning programs. And of course the broad area of 'Social justice' to which many of the preceding relate to. A lot of these things have been taught at Antioch. I refer you to Prof. Julie Gallagher's 2007 Antioch faculty lecture ?An Education for Praxis: Antioch Confronts the Challenges of a New Century? where this is clarified (I can't find the URL but Matt Baya or someone posted it on the Net) So what we need is the leader that can clarify it, package it, make it all go in synch, and market it. If this sounds too Madison Avenue I'm sorry. You can still use the tools and terms of the culture when they are beneficial to your effort even if you aren't in sympathy with all of them. Mark Pomerantz '71 EdD Student, Seattle U. ____________________________________________________________________________ From: On Behalf Of E. Daniel Ayres Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:44 AM To: 'Howard at Glenn Riddle' Cc: Alumni Chat List Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... Howard: As long as there are graduates with clear memory of "the way it was" and the energy to promote and support the evolution required to keep that vision alive, killing off the college does not make sense to me... I personally believe that the essential Antioch College needs to include a more robust and entrepreneurial approach to the issue of co-operative education.... Mark Pomerantz' papers on "Social Entrepreneurship" informed by the experiences of the Antioch of the depression years when students found that co-op employers were not available seems to me to be an important direction to pursue. The enterprise for the sustainable future can emerge from a revived and refocused Antioch College. It requires a culture informed .......regarding how organizations and social movements are built and maintained. It also requires the idealism which makes it possible to forego an unsustainable life style and lead others in the directions which make sense for the future of society and the planet. Elements of everything needed to save and improve Antioch College exist. It will take the will and a lot of hard work and some sacrifices along the way to achieve. I'm not praying for some "dollar a year man" to step up...Our economic institutions and governments are all organized and around the assumption of continuous "growth and development." This could easily be the fatal flaw in human culture which tips the balance and leads to extinction. A new Antioch does not need to be large; it needs to produce citizens of a sustainable future society who have the vision and the energy to accomplish that goal. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From bobabramspe at webtv.net Mon Aug 6 20:52:21 2007 From: bobabramspe at webtv.net (Robert Abrams) Date: Mon Aug 6 21:05:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fw: Re: Reversing climactic change Message-ID: Excuse me if this is a duplication. AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) -----Original Message----- From: Robert Abrams Sent: Monday, August 6, 2007 5:46 PM To: J.David Coldren Subject: Re: Reversing climactic change We have got to think big or humankind will face the largest global catastrophe since the legendary flood. The key is to stop releasing the greenhouse gas CO2 into the atmosphere as rapidly as possible and to find a way to reduce that which has already been emitted. The second way is technically problematic. As far as I know, no method to do this on a macro scale has been devised. Of course, I am far from an expert in this area. That is where we need people trained to think big and to have the tools to develop the method to do so. Of course, failure is always an option in human endeavours. Bob'50 AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) -----Original Message----- From: J. David Coldren Sent: Monday, August 6, 2007 12:06 PM To: Robert Abrams Subject: Reversing climactic change Robert, At the risk of stating the obvious, not even the United Nations Climate Change panel thinks that the world can "reverse climactic change" even with Antioch's help and all the money we can possibly lay our hands on. But I'm certainly not against thinking big (http://www.coldren.net/antioch/index.cfm) and I think that there is certainly a market for liberal arts graduates with science and engineering majors specializing in anti-pollution research and, especially, management for corporations and governments struggling with demands for fewer harmful emissions of all kinds. Just an observation, J. David Coldren 33 Tryon Farm Lane The Pond Settlement Michigan City, IN 46360-2491 (219) 871-0777 At the risk of boring you all I am accepting the invitation to be repetitious. Antioch College needs to find a way to attract students away from the competition. Coop programs, education abroad and interdisciplinary teaching are good but they are available elsewhere. I think the key is to build a reputation for having a curriculum which addresses the need for scientists and engineers who are able to solve the conditions which are causing the great issue of this century: how to reverse the climatic change that we now know without doubt will occur because of the greenhouse effect. This will be expensive. Present lab equipment is probably obsolete or inadequate. Such a curriculum would make a good fit with coop, Aea and interdisciplinary teaching. AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) From millhaven28 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 6 21:29:32 2007 From: millhaven28 at hotmail.com (ginger lines) Date: Mon Aug 6 21:42:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net> Message-ID: Good letter. I am gald to see this discussion arise. Whatever else we do, I don't think we will actually be going forward unless we are mindful of these things. Giinger '81 >From: "E. Daniel Ayres" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "'Howard at Glenn Riddle'" >CC: Alumni Chat List >Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 10:44:07 -0400 > >Howard: > > > >As long as there are graduates with clear memory of "the way it was" and >the >energy to promote and support the evolution required to keep that vision >alive, killing off the college does not make sense to me. I know that my >wife would differ. She experienced the cultural blind spot our liberal >institution had back in the '60s with regard to "In Loco Parentis" and felt >at age 19 and a newlywed, totally helpless when I started cracking under >the >weight of stresses I'd brought on myself as I tried to "air out" the issue >of drug use among college students in the summer of 1965. There were a lot >of people I had contact with who did not want to get involved. In light of >things I've learned recently about the history of the "wellness center" and >the decisions to restrict the location of co-op employment centers, it is >obvious that the parents capable of paying tuition to the college over the >past few years have demanded and received significant change on that front. >I also suspect that recruitment got driven toward a less diverse population >of potential students by the gradual erosion of some of the traditional >curricular tracks, especially those designed to produce scientists and >engineers. > > > >I personally believe that the essential Antioch College needs to include a >more robust and entrepreneurial approach to the issue of co-operative >education. A "year round calendar" seems essential to me in this regard, >and the decision taken many years ago to allow for a more traditional >"summer vacation" and to convert most of the co-op experience to >internships, many of which do not carry any significant economic benefit to >the student, represented a serious dilution of the core of the Antioch I >support. Mark Pomerantz's papers on "Social Entrepreneurship" informed by >the experiences of the Antioch of the depression years when students found >that co-op employers were not available seems to me to be an important >direction to pursue. The enterprise for the sustainable future can emerge >from a revived and refocused Antioch College. It requires a culture >informed by the history of the cooperative movement along with updates to >their social and organizational technologies which reflect more current >scientific knowledge regarding how organizations and social movements are >built and maintained. It also requires the idealism which makes it >possible >to forego an unsustainable life style and lead others in the directions >which make sense for the future of society and the planet. Elements of >everything needed to save and improve Antioch College exist. It will take >the will and a lot of hard work and some sacrifices along the way to >achieve. > > > >I'm not praying for some "dollar a year man" to step up. It would be >great >if somebody like George Soros or even Bill Gates could be convinced to >step >in and fund the transition to the vision which is needed, but it will >probably be a better, more sustainable institution if the community does it >on its' own, building consensus, tapping its own resources, and refining >and >using the traditions of the various generations of Antiochians who have >been >forged in the Yellow Springs heat. The way forward is not going to be >without controversy, but the alternative of "giving up" on Antioch is short >sighted. Right now, far too few institutions see their missions with the >grand and essential vision expressed by Horace Mann's "Be afraid to die." >There are still some very important blows to be struck in service to >humanity. Top on my list, finding a way to promote and allow a gradual >draw-down of human population without the break in the social fabric that >leads to chaos and destruction. Our economic institutions and governments >are all organized and around the assumption of continuous "growth and >development." This could easily be the fatal flaw in human culture which >tips the balance and leads to extinction. A new Antioch does not need to >be >large, it needs to produce citizens of a sustainable future society who >have >the vision and the energy to accomplish that goal. > > > >From: Howard at Glenn Riddle [mailto:howardh0336@comcast.net] >Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 5:37 PM >To: E. Daniel Ayres >Subject: Re: Blast from the past... > > > >Hi Dan, > > > >It is good to hear from you. In the early 1970's I was part of a group in >Ithaca, NY that tried to change the direction that Antioch was heading. >Rod >Sterling was part of it. We wrote letters. But the BOT did not listen. > > > >I think we need to recognize that the patient is dead and move on. Maybe >some other college could buy the campus and it will be like a "residential >college" with special rules, etc. > > > >I think we should work to set up a museum to preserve the way it was. That >is the best we can do. > > > >Howard Hammerman 1966 > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: E. Daniel Ayres > >To: howardh0336@comcast.net > >Cc: Alumni Chat List > >Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:48 PM > >Subject: Blast from the past... > > > >Howard: > > > >How can you not want to see the traditions of the Antioch College we >attended preserved? IMHO, it all did go downhill after we left. I know I >tried with everything I had to get the institution to take a good look at >what students were doing with drugs and, at least by implication, figure >out >how to react and to provide adequate support and protection for students >not >worldly enough to take care of themselves. Even back then, "the >administration" did not always listen, but. IMHO that isn't the issue here. >The issue is whether somehow we can salvage and preserve the "good things" >from the Antioch College culture and tradition. > > > >I personally wonder if BoT members recognized up front that it would take >about four years for a fairly open process to arrive at any kind of >fundable >consensus about what Antioch College should look like in the 21st Century. >It is certainly clear to me that what was left in 2006-7 wasn't viable long >term. A significant portion of the responsibility for that fact can be >attributed to the Alumnae who scattered to the four winds and focused with >typical Antiochian intensity on the next thing in their lives after >Antioch. >Blame the institution for not being more activist and sensitive about the >need to preserve and nurture the sense of community with fellow classmates >which existed, and the culture which has always supported a somewhat >confrontational dialogue. > > > >E. Daniel Ayres, '66 > >734-395-9141 (cell) > >http://home.comcast.net/~eayres > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 21:51:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Mon Aug 6 22:04:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: <17e0997c7bba33f5d7d4acc1b3937832@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <13a03a44ee84c6dfb227ed8e46db65e5@www.antiochians.org> For those who doubt that it was made a campus issue, or have questions regarding current Antioch students, Linda Sattem, Director of Antioch's Counseling and Wellness posted the following to Antioch's announce list in November '06: On March 8, 2004 I sent out a campus-wide announcements concerning rumors that indicated thinking along the lines of "If Antioch did not admit such messed up students, the college would not be having such problems". In that email I noted that having worked in private practice for 13 years (and in different agencies for the 15+ years before) with many students from multiple colleges in the area, my experience here was not different, with the exception of more trans issues. Additionally, I offered research from 2003 about the issues college students present at their counseling centers. I ended with "There is nothing wrong with you. You are not the reason the college is having difficulties." Seems this line of thought has again reared up, is being talked about, and getting serious discussion. Antioch students are not different than other college students. Our students do not have more problems, more severe problems or a higher incidence of mental illness. Are we busy at the Counseling Center? Yes. So is every center I have visited, this same experience is what I hear from every director at our regional conferences, and what is reported in the literature. Attached is the American College Health Association's 2005 survey results (it was their 2003 results I included in the 2004 email announcement) if you'd like to see what issues are being dealt with. The summary of an article concerning the patterns over 13 years in one counseling center (Kansas State University) is also attached. Finally there are two new resources from the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI). The first is research with students and parents, the second with college counseling centers. Learn about what is happening to all colleges, all college students. We have to be careful with what we say, what we try to pin all our problems on. We are complex, the problems we face are complex. We cannot "target" one group or another. All of us want the college to survive, and then to thrive. Again, there is nothing wrong with you. You are not the reason the college is having difficulties. Linda Lee Sattem, Ph.D., PCC/S Antioch College College Student Mental Health Counseling and Wellness Center Amer. College Health Assoc. The American College Health Association conducts annual surveys of the nation?s college students. In 2005 they surveyed 54,111 students in the spring, and 16,832 students in the fall. The following are selected findings from these 2005 surveys. 2005 Survey Impediment to academic performance (last school year) Spring Fall Issue 31.6% 30.9% stress 26.5% 23.6% colds/flu/sore throats 24.8% 23.7% sleep difficulties 18.1% 17.8% concern about family/friend 15.8% 14.7% relationship difficulties 16.3% 15.6% depression and anxiety 14.2% 12.0% Internet use/games 8.4% 9.2% death of family member/friend 7.6% 6.5% alcohol use Depression Diagnosis and Treatment spring (fall) % of Females % of Males Ever diagnosed (Dx) 19.2 (20.5) 10.8 (10.7) Of those above: Dx in the past year 36.9 (42.2) 31.0 (36.6) Current therapy 28.9 (26.7) 23.3 (20.3) Current medication 39.3 (40.2) 30.8 (30.3) Sexual abuse/assault (last school year) spring (fall) % of females % of males Sexual touching 11.7 (10.0) 4.7 (3.7) Verbal threats 4.4 (3.7) 2.4 (2.4) Attempted penetration 4.1 (3.4) 1.1 (1.1) Sexual penetration 2.0 (1.8) .8 (0.8) Depression and Suicide Experiencing the following in the past school year: Spring % Fall % Feeling overwhelmed by all they had to do 1-10 times 65.2 64.3 11+ times 28.6 28.2 Feeling exhausted (not from physical activity) 1-10 times 63.8 64.1 11+ times 28.4 25.2 Feeling very sad 1-10 times 66.0 63.5 11+ times 14.7 14.0 Feeling things were hopeless 1-10 times 53.0 50.1 11+ times 10.8 10.3 Feeling so depressed it was difficult to function 1-10 times 38.0 35.0 11+ times 7.7 7.3 Seriously considering attempting suicide 1-10 times 9.2 9.6 11+ times 1.0 1.1 Attempting suicide 1-10 times 1.4 1.8 11+ times 0.1 0.2 www.acha.org Antioch College College Student Mental Health Counseling and Wellness Center NAMI Research, 2004 Research by the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) on college mental health (n=1.033 college students, 1,028 parents of college students, 282 patients diagnosed with mental illness; 2004) Prevalence among students: 1/3 experienced prolonged periods of depression 1/4 report suicidal thoughts or feelings 1/7 engage in abnormally reckless behavior 1/7 report difficulty functioning at school due to mental illness Parent vs. student perception: Issue Parents Student?s actual Rate the student?s mental health as below average or poor. 25% 50% The student has experienced a friend who had/has problems functioning at school due to mental health. 7% 30% Discussed mental health issues with parent to prepare for college experience. 75% 22% (Myth) Belief that bipolar disorder is attributed to a character flaw or weak willpower. 35% 48% Preparation: 50% of students report receiving no information from anyone (parents, teachers, clergy, counselors) before coming to college about mental health issues. While in college: 50% of students report receiving no information on mental health from their college. Who to turn to? Students report being most likely to turn to a friend (62%) during a serious mental health crisis. 46% would turn to a parent, 30% would come to a college counseling center. www.nami.org www.namioncampus.org Folks, Skooter, who is on this list and worked in Admissions at the time, is also someone you can ask about the presentation Lawry made to Admissions. He's quoted throughout the YS article. My understanding is that what Lawry was telling Admissions and the Faculty was also presented to the BoT, but you'd have to check with a Trustee on that. The College's Counseling staff can also be contacted regarding the comments since they had a faily strong reaction to the presentation. Linda Sattum (lsattem@antioch-college.edu), director of counseling, might comment on that. I suspect that the YS News wouldn't have printed the information without verifying it with more than one source. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 6 23:12:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 6 23:25:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to the National Alliance on Mental Illness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >some stuff nobody cares about [img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/207/475760056_138c280d4a.jpg?v=0[/img] From theodora at imbris.com Tue Aug 7 00:15:39 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Tue Aug 7 00:25:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] students with mental health problems Message-ID: Rowan, I worked in the Admissions Office in '68-69. Didn't have any clout, just did secy work. From theodora at imbris.com Tue Aug 7 01:01:56 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Tue Aug 7 01:11:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become Message-ID: I have some thoughts to share about how to figure out why Antioch failed and what it should become. Last month, Bob Devine posted a post about why he thought the renewal program failed. Check out July, before the middle of the month, if you didn't catch it. Of if he's listening, perhaps he can repost. He oughta know... as for discovering the cause of the general decline (and the rebuilding of Antioch), I think we should do some systematic (phenomenological) research. For example, I believe the Alumni Office has stats on what graduates have done with themselves after leaving Antioch, e.g., how many received graduate fellowships, how many went on to get advanced degrees, what kinds of awards they have received, books written, etc. It might be very interesting to look at these stats (and the folks that work in that office might have a very good sense of trends) and see what the trends are/were and when, if ever, they changed, and try and connect those changes to changes in curriculum and/or events on campus in the years prior. I know that the strike was a devatasting blow and as far as I know, the census never recovered. Without a decent census, we can't take in the money to pay the faculty, keep up the plant, etc. We could track when it increased and what was going on, and when it decreased and what was going on, in the years since the strike. Maybe then we could get a better handle on why it's failed. We might also write to students who left and find out why. AND WE NEED TO LISTEN TO THEM! They can probably tell us more than anything else. I think perhaps it's also important to look at the national trends. I take it that Goddard and Bard have also had difficulty. Maybe radical just isn't selling in today's world, and if not, we need to bring it down a few notches. Which gets me to my next point. If we're going to find a niche to fill, then I think we have to know what the educational world is like out there. I would suggest a process something like the following: 1. have a general idea of what kinds of problems we'd like to address (we seem to be in some agreement--the few of us that have spoken to this-- that we'd like to combine a rigorous educational program with work to address serious problems facing the world today, and possibly in some kind of interdisciplinary program (although I don't know why students who want a traditional science, math or history program, for example, couldn't have that, too. some people just want a good solid foundation in a subject so that they can go on.). 2. Study the catalogues of virtually every small liberal arts college in the country and find out which ones are succeeding and why, and which ones aren't doing so well. Talk to some students in the best and the worst and find out what they like and what they would change. 3. In doing this, find out where the gaps are, given the problems facing the planet, or what programs are very popular but can't serve all the students who apply. 4. Talk to top high school students around the country and find out what kinds of problems they're concerned about for the world and what kinds of ways they would like to help, thus, what kind of training they would like to get. They could be presented with some options we've concocted, and see which ones interest them most. After I put in my little note about a health practitioner, I wondered whether any youth today would be interested in working with the aging, and last night at a friend's house, I heard their 20 year old daughter talking about her college program in gerontology. It's out there, and students are interested, apparently. (When I first went to college, I didn't have a clue what kinds of things were available, though, so I think we should assume that students have a fairly limited perspective in high school. What do you want to bet there are a lot of CSI wannabes out there? Still, it's high school kids we have to attract, so I guess we need to know what they want. Perhaps, however, we could also aim at Jr. Colleges. That would help us to take in upper classmen right away.) 4. After doing all of this, hone in on a few ideas for programs and consult with alumni or friends of alumni (or just plain well known experts) in these fields (My husband's best friend has worked for a charitable foundation for over 20 years and was their Middle East Expert for 10. He has a lot of ideas about how to better run a foundation (than the one he works for, which is better than most), not to mention what is going on in the MIddle East. I would imagine he'd be happy to brainstorm with us, and he's probably the brightest and best educated guy I know--he might even be interested in a teaching position--if he could do it out of New York, and with today's technology, why couldn't teachers be all over the country? Maybe we can do a new twist to distance learning: the students stay on campus in a community, and some of the faculty work from far away, and come to campus a couple of weeks each quarter....it might save us some money to hire some people part time this way, and also get some top-notch experts). Anyway, let these consultants design their dream program, talk to a few more experts in these fields and get their feedback and tweak it. And write it up with specific courses, course contents, goals of each (possibly interdisciplinary) department, and so forth. Along with potential interested faculty names, which might include some current Antioch faculty, for gosh sakes! At this point, with all research carefully recorded and a plan in writing, it should be very possible to go to potential donors and say hey, we've done all this research, and we think we know why Antioch failed, we've learned from our mistakes, we know what works and what doesn't around the country, and we know where the educational gaps or opportunities are, and we've designed these programs to fill those gaps, will you help us fund them? I mean, do you think Clinton or Gates would be interested in helping to train people to work for their foundations? I dunno, but why not aim for something like that? Maybe they at least have some ideas. personally, I think donors would be much more interested in helping if we have some concrete research to show them, and a well formulated plan. And then we hire some phenomenal marketer, and market it. Personally, I think we should aim for a student body of at least 1000, to be built in four years from the time we start (or maybe sooner if we take in folks from Jr. Colleges)....anything less than that just won't generate enough money to have a diverse enough faculty and keep the plant in good Feng shui condition! Oh, and we should charge just a few K less than the typical Small College....Money talks. My two cents! Pam ('68) From stephanie.scott at totalise.co.uk Tue Aug 7 07:53:35 2007 From: stephanie.scott at totalise.co.uk (Stephanie Scott) Date: Tue Aug 7 08:06:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <873ED496C6EC4E7EABD53411C6223AD0@Stephanie> I would love to see a revival of science, IT, engineering, and business studies at Antioch - we are really diminished without them (not talking my own book here - I was a social science type). Stephanie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Abrams" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost > At the risk of boring you all I am accepting the invitation to be > repetitious. Antioch College needs to find a way to attract students away > from the competition. Coop programs, education abroad and > interdisciplinary teaching are good but they are available elsewhere. I > think the key is to build a reputation for having a curriculum which > addresses the need for scientists and engineers who are able to solve the > conditions which are causing the great issue of this century: how to > reverse the climatic change that we now know without doubt will occur > because of the greenhouse effect. This will be expensive. Present lab > equipment is probably obsolete or inadequate. Such a curriculum would make > a good fit with coop, Aea and interdisciplinary teaching. > > AVE ATQUE VALE (Hail and farewell-the gladiator's salutation) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sistersara@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2007 12:11 PM > To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost > > > In a message dated 8/5/2007 8:31:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > aadole@adelphia.net writes: > > As has been said on this chat before, if Revival is to succeed, we need > to > know what went wrong. > > Art Dole '46 > > > > Amen -- and I noticed on the notes regarding what the Alumni Board is > considering, realizing they have no finished plan at this juncture, no > such > analysis is even suggested. So perhaps it needs to be mentioned over > and over > again. > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From jdavid at coldren.net Tue Aug 7 08:14:20 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Tue Aug 7 08:28:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <032101c7d8ec$7c879410$7596bc30$@net> Pam, Your point about doing some systematic (phenomenological) research is right on target. I would have thought that this was an essential part of any competent college administration and I'm a little taken aback to hear you say (or, maybe, imply) that Antioch still hasn't done what it should in this area. You make several other cogent points. I will only observe in passing that your mention of gerontology is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the concept for an intergenerational learning environment for Antioch (http://www.coldren.net/antioch). Only I didn't have the sense to stick the word "gerontology" on one of the slides. I think I'll do that in the next edition of the presentation. Thanks. J. David Coldren '65 This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete them from your system. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Olsen Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:02 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become I have some thoughts to share about how to figure out why Antioch failed and what it should become. Last month, Bob Devine posted a post about why he thought the renewal program failed. Check out July, before the middle of the month, if you didn't catch it. Of if he's listening, perhaps he can repost. He oughta know... as for discovering the cause of the general decline (and the rebuilding of Antioch), I think we should do some systematic (phenomenological) research. For example, I believe the Alumni Office has stats on what graduates have done with themselves after leaving Antioch, e.g., how many received graduate fellowships, how many went on to get advanced degrees, what kinds of awards they have received, books written, etc. It might be very interesting to look at these stats (and the folks that work in that office might have a very good sense of trends) and see what the trends are/were and when, if ever, they changed, and try and connect those changes to changes in curriculum and/or events on campus in the years prior. I know that the strike was a devatasting blow and as far as I know, the census never recovered. Without a decent census, we can't take in the money to pay the faculty, keep up the plant, etc. We could track when it increased and what was going on, and when it decreased and what was going on, in the years since the strike. Maybe then we could get a better handle on why it's failed. We might also write to students who left and find out why. AND WE NEED TO LISTEN TO THEM! They can probably tell us more than anything else. I think perhaps it's also important to look at the national trends. I take it that Goddard and Bard have also had difficulty. Maybe radical just isn't selling in today's world, and if not, we need to bring it down a few notches. Which gets me to my next point. If we're going to find a niche to fill, then I think we have to know what the educational world is like out there. I would suggest a process something like the following: 1. have a general idea of what kinds of problems we'd like to address (we seem to be in some agreement--the few of us that have spoken to this-- that we'd like to combine a rigorous educational program with work to address serious problems facing the world today, and possibly in some kind of interdisciplinary program (although I don't know why students who want a traditional science, math or history program, for example, couldn't have that, too. some people just want a good solid foundation in a subject so that they can go on.). 2. Study the catalogues of virtually every small liberal arts college in the country and find out which ones are succeeding and why, and which ones aren't doing so well. Talk to some students in the best and the worst and find out what they like and what they would change. 3. In doing this, find out where the gaps are, given the problems facing the planet, or what programs are very popular but can't serve all the students who apply. 4. Talk to top high school students around the country and find out what kinds of problems they're concerned about for the world and what kinds of ways they would like to help, thus, what kind of training they would like to get. They could be presented with some options we've concocted, and see which ones interest them most. After I put in my little note about a health practitioner, I wondered whether any youth today would be interested in working with the aging, and last night at a friend's house, I heard their 20 year old daughter talking about her college program in gerontology. It's out there, and students are interested, apparently. (When I first went to college, I didn't have a clue what kinds of things were available, though, so I think we should assume that students have a fairly limited perspective in high school. What do you want to bet there are a lot of CSI wannabes out there? Still, it's high school kids we have to attract, so I guess we need to know what they want. Perhaps, however, we could also aim at Jr. Colleges. That would help us to take in upper classmen right away.) 4. After doing all of this, hone in on a few ideas for programs and consult with alumni or friends of alumni (or just plain well known experts) in these fields (My husband's best friend has worked for a charitable foundation for over 20 years and was their Middle East Expert for 10. He has a lot of ideas about how to better run a foundation (than the one he works for, which is better than most), not to mention what is going on in the MIddle East. I would imagine he'd be happy to brainstorm with us, and he's probably the brightest and best educated guy I know--he might even be interested in a teaching position--if he could do it out of New York, and with today's technology, why couldn't teachers be all over the country? Maybe we can do a new twist to distance learning: the students stay on campus in a community, and some of the faculty work from far away, and come to campus a couple of weeks each quarter....it might save us some money to hire some people part time this way, and also get some top-notch experts). Anyway, let these consultants design their dream program, talk to a few more experts in these fields and get their feedback and tweak it. And write it up with specific courses, course contents, goals of each (possibly interdisciplinary) department, and so forth. Along with potential interested faculty names, which might include some current Antioch faculty, for gosh sakes! At this point, with all research carefully recorded and a plan in writing, it should be very possible to go to potential donors and say hey, we've done all this research, and we think we know why Antioch failed, we've learned from our mistakes, we know what works and what doesn't around the country, and we know where the educational gaps or opportunities are, and we've designed these programs to fill those gaps, will you help us fund them? I mean, do you think Clinton or Gates would be interested in helping to train people to work for their foundations? I dunno, but why not aim for something like that? Maybe they at least have some ideas. personally, I think donors would be much more interested in helping if we have some concrete research to show them, and a well formulated plan. And then we hire some phenomenal marketer, and market it. Personally, I think we should aim for a student body of at least 1000, to be built in four years from the time we start (or maybe sooner if we take in folks from Jr. Colleges)....anything less than that just won't generate enough money to have a diverse enough faculty and keep the plant in good Feng shui condition! Oh, and we should charge just a few K less than the typical Small College....Money talks. My two cents! Pam ('68) _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From matt at baya.net Tue Aug 7 08:59:13 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Tue Aug 7 09:15:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch In-Reply-To: <873ED496C6EC4E7EABD53411C6223AD0@Stephanie> References: <873ED496C6EC4E7EABD53411C6223AD0@Stephanie> Message-ID: Yay for more prominent sciences at Antioch. I'm all for this idea too (I think I post something similar every time Robert Abram's posts his ideas :) ) Along these lines we are talking about having some short classes/ workshops at 'Reunion v2' in late October (you can read about this idea on the Antiochians.org forums at http://forum.antiochians.org/ viewtopic.php?id=19646 ) . Do any Science folks want to come give a talk / class? I had already suggested we bribe Joe Yarkin in coming back to do a Solar Energy workshop but if folks have other ideas that'd be great too. One note, the 'Peak Oil' conference is also happening in Yellow Springs that weekend ( http:// www.communitysolution.org/conference.html ) so if this interests you you could always attend their events too ( I need to write them and talk about cross-polination of our events if ours is actually going to happen) Also, I was actually debating starting 'academic' themed mailing lists on antiochians.org so for example science students, faculty & alumni would have a list/forum to talk about related news, jobs, classes etc. I think we need to wait until fall when students hit campus to see if they are interested in joining a mailing list / forum or not. Hopefully with our newly discovered status of 'Hey the alumni are pretty cool' we can get some interest and hopefully build some momentum in this direction. What do others think about this idea? Again, more stuff we can do once we get those doors propped open. There is so much potential here, I really hope it's not all squandered. -Matt '92 From howardh0336 at comcast.net Tue Aug 7 09:27:24 2007 From: howardh0336 at comcast.net (Howard at Glenn Riddle) Date: Tue Aug 7 09:40:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... References: <000501c7d161$01790610$046b1230$@net><071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome> <001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net> <00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <09c901c7d8f6$b140d900$6501a8c0@hhhome> There are some great ideas being passed around here. I believe that if we could all get into a room for two days we could come out with both a philosophy of education and a few dozen things that the education must include. We might disagree on a few. I think grades are good but I am willing to table my reservations. But... And this is a big but. Given the current financial situation. Given the current state of the physical plant. Given the current reputation (correct or incorrect) is it reasonable to think that parents are going to be willing to write checks amounting to $80,000 or more to send their precious children to an institution undergoing re-birth? I personally think the physical plant is an anchor around our necks. Could we re-create the essence of Antioch at a residential college within a larger, better funded university? How about this for a plan: 1) Close the campus, terminate all academic staff. Sell the physical plant either as a unit or piece by piece to the highest bidders. 2) Take all remaining capital and create a new "Antioch Foundation". Set up a small office in a big city with lots of money. New York, Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco for example. Or a substantial college town: Ann Arbor, Boston, Chapel Hill. 3) More all vital records there. This will be the place from which transcripts are sent. 4) Staff the foundation with Antioch grads. Perhaps retired or semi-retired grads who don't need big salaries. Create an advisory board with regular net-meetings. 5) Write and publish papers. (A new version of the Antioch Review? A new version of the Antioch Scholastic Journal?) 6) Fund academic experiments and research. 7) Use our influence and money to create a residential college in some university. Call it the "Antioch residential college". 8) Approach larger foundations for supporting grants. 9) Set aside a room at the foundation as a museum. Wouldn't this make more sense than investing our efforts to support both the Antioch ideal AND the Antioch building? Just some thoughts. I would certainly be willing to work towards such a plan. Howard Hammerman, Class of 1966 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pomerantz" To: "'Alumni Chat List'" ; "'Howard at Glenn Riddle'" Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:08 PM Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... Well said Dan, What is often overlooked here is the element of leadership. Sometimes that means innovation---forming the new idea. Sometimes it means entrepreneurship, figuring out how to successfully implement the new idea. Sometimes, what's needed is just good management that keeps the institution going. We've had a lot of innovation at Antioch but very little entrepreneurship. Steve Lawry is a manager, maybe a good one if he had a chance, but he is not an entrepreneur. In the past Antioch has been known for its leadership. Arthur Morgan who took an institution that had always been unsuccessful (our misty eyed impressions of Horace Mann aside, the stresses of dealing with the conservative founders of Antioch killed him within a few years of his arrival in YSO) and made it into one of the top colleges in the US, Douglas McGregor, an Antioch President who became famous as an organizational psychologist and the "father of humanistic management" at MIT, Warren Bennis, an Antioch Student and Board Member, still involved with the Antioch PhD program and an international figure in leadership and change. I'll stop there before we get onto any later figures to avoid controversy. We need entrepreneurial leadership now if there is going to continue to be an Antioch College. Whether the College has its own board or not there is a need for a leader who has a vision that they can successfully implement. We have made a lot of progress I think in starting to formulate some of the elements of that vision. 'Interdisciplinary education' just as Antioch has always had since Morgan. 'Green Science' as Robert Abrams has talked about which we need in order to figure out how to deal with globing warming et al. 'Sustainability Studies' as Dan Ayres and Pam Olsen have alluded to which means taking care of our personal health as well as the planet's. 'Social Entrepreneurship', which I've frequently mentioned, involving a more powerful, reinvigorated nonprofit sector and tying in well with existing service learning programs. And of course the broad area of 'Social justice' to which many of the preceding relate to. A lot of these things have been taught at Antioch. I refer you to Prof. Julie Gallagher's 2007 Antioch faculty lecture ?An Education for Praxis: Antioch Confronts the Challenges of a New Century? where this is clarified (I can't find the URL but Matt Baya or someone posted it on the Net) So what we need is the leader that can clarify it, package it, make it all go in synch, and market it. If this sounds too Madison Avenue I'm sorry. You can still use the tools and terms of the culture when they are beneficial to your effort even if you aren't in sympathy with all of them. Mark Pomerantz '71 EdD Student, Seattle U. ____________________________________________________________________________ From: On Behalf Of E. Daniel Ayres Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 7:44 AM To: 'Howard at Glenn Riddle' Cc: Alumni Chat List Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... Howard: As long as there are graduates with clear memory of "the way it was" and the energy to promote and support the evolution required to keep that vision alive, killing off the college does not make sense to me... I personally believe that the essential Antioch College needs to include a more robust and entrepreneurial approach to the issue of co-operative education.... Mark Pomerantz' papers on "Social Entrepreneurship" informed by the experiences of the Antioch of the depression years when students found that co-op employers were not available seems to me to be an important direction to pursue. The enterprise for the sustainable future can emerge from a revived and refocused Antioch College. It requires a culture informed .......regarding how organizations and social movements are built and maintained. It also requires the idealism which makes it possible to forego an unsustainable life style and lead others in the directions which make sense for the future of society and the planet. Elements of everything needed to save and improve Antioch College exist. It will take the will and a lot of hard work and some sacrifices along the way to achieve. I'm not praying for some "dollar a year man" to step up...Our economic institutions and governments are all organized and around the assumption of continuous "growth and development." This could easily be the fatal flaw in human culture which tips the balance and leads to extinction. A new Antioch does not need to be large; it needs to produce citizens of a sustainable future society who have the vision and the energy to accomplish that goal. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From moloney at pobox.com Tue Aug 7 09:57:23 2007 From: moloney at pobox.com (Elizabeth Moloney) Date: Tue Aug 7 10:10:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <09c901c7d8f6$b140d900$6501a8c0@hhhome> References: <000501c7d161$01790610$046b1230$@net> <071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome> <001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net> <00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> <09c901c7d8f6$b140d900$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: <734B48E0-D54B-445E-8CDF-BB2B616565D2@pobox.com> Howard - Interesting idea, however... "big salaries"? I think you must think that Antioch professors are extremely well paid and that somehow they are to blame for the downfall of Antioch. As I'm sure other folks will tell you, that certainly isn't the case. A few assumptions on my part - There is something called a living wage in this country and I think everyone has a right to it. If anything, if I was a parent, I would want my children's teachers to be paid a living wage and then some. After all, if you are going to invest in anything, shouldn't it be your children by way of their teachers, who are going to help mold the way your child walks around in the world, shouldn't they get reimbursed more than most? HOWEVER - even if you think teachers are paid too much, I still think your argument implies that the salaries are too blame (rather than mismanagement at a higher level). This is the same train of thought that argues against organized labor (if those workers just got paid less, the company wouldn't have to hire scabs, or leave the town, or shut the plant down, or charge "so much" for tickets). My brother, a union pilot, recently got laid off from his company because it wasn't "profitable enough". This company, which is a fraction of the size of say, Southwest, has a CEO who gets paid 7 times as MUCH as the CEO of Southwest. Needless to say, Southwest is hiring and my brother's company was laying off a 1/3 of their pilots. His union, luckily, is a strong one and saved his job and stopped the layoffs. Blaming faculty salaries is the same as blaming these particular pilots in this situation. Woudn't you say the trail of blame lies higher up? Would you also be against tenure at this new version of Antioch? - beth '95 On Aug 7, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Howard at Glenn Riddle wrote: > > > 4) Staff the foundation with Antioch grads. Perhaps retired or > semi-retired grads who don't need big salaries. Create an advisory > board with regular net-meetings. > > > > Howard Hammerman, Class of 1966 > > From aadole at adelphia.net Tue Aug 7 13:38:10 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Tue Aug 7 10:51:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Leadership... In-Reply-To: <00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: On 8/6/07 3:08 PM, "Mark Pomerantz" wrote: > Well said Dan, > > What is often overlooked here is the element of leadership. Sometimes that > means innovation---forming the new idea. Sometimes it means > entrepreneurship, figuring out how to successfully implement the new idea. > Sometimes, what's needed is just good management that keeps the institution > going. > >Mark, you stimulate some extremely important questions about leadership. Just how do you select an effective leader of Antioch College in the 21st century? Do you rely on consultants? How much difference would a PhD in Educational Leadership make? How much influence, if any, should the many stakeholders have? To whom will the next manager be accountable? How much weight should the selectors put on the failures and successes of past Antioch presidents? Assuming the selection must be approved by a Board of Trustees, how is the BOT chosen, what qualifies some one to be a Board member, etc.? Given an ideal candidate, what would attract him/her to the job--power, perquisites, salary, challenge, idealism, stepping stone to an even better position, and so on? How many of those who participate in this chat and have their own ideas about how they would revive the college would be comfortable with the present administrative structure? Amswers? More questions? It's fun to consider this important topic. But I suspect we are mistaken if we think the opinions of any of us about leadership are going to make much difference unless we can keep Antioch College open and independent. Art Dole '46 From marklp2 at comcast.net Tue Aug 7 14:54:31 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Tue Aug 7 15:07:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Leadership... In-Reply-To: References: <00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <005701c7d924$63ea7bb0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> What would attract the right leader to the job of President of Antioch would be the entrepreneurial challenge of recreating an important but failing institution plus a desire on their part to develop an institution that they feel is important in training leaders who will save the planet. These are serious times. It may be more important to have a leader who can portray and implement a strong workable vision, reconciling as many stakeholders to it as possible, than to achieve absolute consensus about what needs to be done. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Art Dole Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:38 AM To: ALUM CHAT Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Leadership... On 8/6/07 3:08 PM, "Mark Pomerantz" wrote: > Well said Dan, > > What is often overlooked here is the element of leadership. Sometimes that > means innovation---forming the new idea. Sometimes it means > entrepreneurship, figuring out how to successfully implement the new idea. > Sometimes, what's needed is just good management that keeps the institution > going. > >Mark, you stimulate some extremely important questions about leadership. Just how do you select an effective leader of Antioch College in the 21st century? Do you rely on consultants? How much difference would a PhD in Educational Leadership make? How much influence, if any, should the many stakeholders have? To whom will the next manager be accountable? How much weight should the selectors put on the failures and successes of past Antioch presidents? Assuming the selection must be approved by a Board of Trustees, how is the BOT chosen, what qualifies some one to be a Board member, etc.? Given an ideal candidate, what would attract him/her to the job--power, perquisites, salary, challenge, idealism, stepping stone to an even better position, and so on? How many of those who participate in this chat and have their own ideas about how they would revive the college would be comfortable with the present administrative structure? Amswers? More questions? It's fun to consider this important topic. But I suspect we are mistaken if we think the opinions of any of us about leadership are going to make much difference unless we can keep Antioch College open and independent. Art Dole '46 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 7 15:57:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 7 16:11:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Trolling the UBoT for fun and profit. Message-ID: <22b21528c146e4534075d45ca5c446b6@www.antiochians.org> Hey folks... The UBoT has just set up its own forum here: http://antioch-college.edu/bboard/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=3 please take a moment to start your own topic on why Antioch should be saved, the Alumni Board's efforts, and talk FACTS about how the ULC systematically sabotaged the college. LEts use their resources for our struggle for a change. Love, ----G From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 7 16:31:05 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 7 16:44:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI, folks. I'm all for the sciences, too. But how about philosophy? Let's not forget about philosophy, which is the core of liberal arts learning, and which actually gave birth to the sciences with Plato and Aristotle. I worry that we're going to lose sight of the importance not only of philosophy, but of the humanities in general. It seems that in this day and age, the humanities are central to our ability to ask the right questions about the future of our human world! best, Scott Warren Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 8:59 AM wrote: >Yay for more prominent sciences at Antioch. I'm all for this idea too >(I think I post something similar every time Robert Abram's posts his >ideas :) ) > >Along these lines we are talking about having some short classes/ >workshops at 'Reunion v2' in late October (you can read about this >idea on the Antiochians.org forums at http://forum.antiochians.org/ >viewtopic.php?id=19646 ) . Do any Science folks want to come give a >talk / class? I had already suggested we bribe Joe Yarkin in coming >back to do a Solar Energy workshop but if folks have other ideas >that'd be great too. One note, the 'Peak Oil' conference is also >happening in Yellow Springs that weekend ( http:// >www.communitysolution.org/conference.html ) so if this interests you >you could always attend their events too ( I need to write them and >talk about cross-polination of our events if ours is actually going >to happen) > >Also, I was actually debating starting 'academic' themed mailing >lists on antiochians.org so for example science students, faculty & >alumni would have a list/forum to talk about related news, jobs, >classes etc. I think we need to wait until fall when students hit >campus to see if they are interested in joining a mailing list / >forum or not. Hopefully with our newly discovered status of 'Hey the >alumni are pretty cool' we can get some interest and hopefully build >some momentum in this direction. What do others think about this idea? > >Again, more stuff we can do once we get those doors propped open. >There is so much potential here, I really hope it's not all squandered. > >-Matt '92 >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 7 16:41:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Matthew Baya (matt@baya.net)) Date: Tue Aug 7 16:54:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Trolling the UBoT for fun and profit. In-Reply-To: <22b21528c146e4534075d45ca5c446b6@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <48d0b728bc630309f24817aab6c235cb@www.antiochians.org> I posted this on the SaveAntioch list earlier but since this thread is here I thought folks should see this: *Questions for the August 16 Web-Based Presentation* Just noticed this from 7/25 on the much-ignored Antioch-college.edu forums: "Please post your questions to Chancellor Murdoch and Art Zucker for the "Overview of Antioch College Finances" presentation on August 16." http://tinyurl.com/3c4a54 -Matt '92 From Sistersara at aol.com Tue Aug 7 16:53:59 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 7 17:07:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Leadership... Message-ID: In a message dated 8/7/2007 1:55:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, marklp2@comcast.net writes: >Mark, you stimulate some extremely important questions about leadership. Just how do you select an effective leader of Antioch College in the 21st century? Do you rely on consultants? How much difference would a PhD in Educational Leadership make? How much influence, if any, should the many stakeholders have? To whom will the next manager be accountable? How much weight should the selectors put on the failures and successes of past Antioch presidents? Assuming the selection must be approved by a Board of Trustees, how is the BOT chosen, what qualifies some one to be a Board member, etc.? Given an ideal candidate, what would attract him/her to the job--power, perquisites, salary, challenge, idealism, stepping stone to an even better position, and so on? How many of those who participate in this chat and have their own ideas about how they would revive the college would be comfortable with the present administrative structure? Amswers? More questions? It's fun to consider this important topic. But I suspect we are mistaken if we think the opinions of any of us about leadership are going to make much difference unless we can keep Antioch College open and independent. Art Dole '46 Good Questions Art and Mark -- Back in the late 1970's -- beginning of the Birnbaum era and just after Antioch University was born, they hired some consultants from Ohio State to map governance and decision making structures at Antioch. I don't have access to the report, but Ev Wilson did provide a summary of findings. In essence, they said that of all the educational institutions they had studied, Antioch had by far the most complex governance and decision making system they had ever seen, and that essentially it served to preclude the uncorrupted execution of decisions and made reaching the goals of decisions neigh impossible. They recommended extensive streamlining, but they also did not recommend the College and units (as they were called then) have unified governing boards. They saw the University Board as more an honest broker when negotiation between and among units and the college failed. They estimated that given its assets, personnel and student population, Antioch invested far more in administration than Ohio State, comparatively, and had a decision structure that was ten times as complex. It has not been at all simplified since then. The Changes Guskin initiated in 1994 just as he was leaving YSO made the process far more complex. (I think there ought to be a law against those who are leaving making far reaching governance decisions -- reminds me a little bit of Paul Breamer laying down the laws of Neo-Conservative Capitalism for Iraq just as the Helicopter was about to take him out of country.) One part of what I mean when I ask for a comprehensive study of "what went wrong" is to take a study such as this, (and I would love to read it in full) and then look at decisions made in the wake of such a consultant's study. I have no idea the range of the consultant's work -- I do know they dug back into Antioch History to the early 1960's. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From stephanie.scott at totalise.co.uk Tue Aug 7 16:57:26 2007 From: stephanie.scott at totalise.co.uk (Stephanie Scott) Date: Tue Aug 7 17:10:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E5AC9D5ADA9424FAFE473BFE2AF2D0D@Stephanie> Yes, but I think the point is that the sciences have become unrepresented at Antioch, or as near as. Social Sciences, arts and humanities have become the core program - not that these could not use some TLC as well. And not only sciences, but business studies as well. The person that I know who has come closest to winning that victory from my "generation" of Antioch grads had a business concentration. I don't think that even exists anymore. Kind regards, Stephanie 1989 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Warren" To: "Alumni Chat List" Cc: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch HI, folks. I'm all for the sciences, too. But how about philosophy? Let's not forget about philosophy, which is the core of liberal arts learning, and which actually gave birth to the sciences with Plato and Aristotle. I worry that we're going to lose sight of the importance not only of philosophy, but of the humanities in general. It seems that in this day and age, the humanities are central to our ability to ask the right questions about the future of our human world! best, Scott Warren Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 8:59 AM wrote: >Yay for more prominent sciences at Antioch. I'm all for this idea too >(I think I post something similar every time Robert Abram's posts his >ideas :) ) > >Along these lines we are talking about having some short classes/ >workshops at 'Reunion v2' in late October (you can read about this >idea on the Antiochians.org forums at http://forum.antiochians.org/ >viewtopic.php?id=19646 ) . Do any Science folks want to come give a >talk / class? I had already suggested we bribe Joe Yarkin in coming >back to do a Solar Energy workshop but if folks have other ideas >that'd be great too. One note, the 'Peak Oil' conference is also >happening in Yellow Springs that weekend ( http:// >www.communitysolution.org/conference.html ) so if this interests you >you could always attend their events too ( I need to write them and >talk about cross-polination of our events if ours is actually going >to happen) > >Also, I was actually debating starting 'academic' themed mailing >lists on antiochians.org so for example science students, faculty & >alumni would have a list/forum to talk about related news, jobs, >classes etc. I think we need to wait until fall when students hit >campus to see if they are interested in joining a mailing list / >forum or not. Hopefully with our newly discovered status of 'Hey the >alumni are pretty cool' we can get some interest and hopefully build >some momentum in this direction. What do others think about this idea? > >Again, more stuff we can do once we get those doors propped open. >There is so much potential here, I really hope it's not all squandered. > >-Matt '92 >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 7 17:12:35 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 7 17:26:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch In-Reply-To: <0E5AC9D5ADA9424FAFE473BFE2AF2D0D@Stephanie> References: <, > <,> <0E5AC9D5ADA9424FAFE473BFE2AF2D0D@Stephanie> Message-ID: Dear Stephanie, Thanks for the reply. Just to set the record straight, here are the numbers: We have 10 faculty members in the sciences. We have 1 (yes, only one!) faculty member in philosophy. We have 2 other faculty members in the humanities (2 in literature, 0 in Languages, 0 in Religious Studies, 0 in History). We have 2 (yes, two!) faculty members in management and business studies! It seems to me that philosophy and the humanities have become the grossly unrepresented fields at Antioch (and ironically, we have the largest number of majors at the College -- which is why I teach about 140 students a year and have about 50 advisees). And I think that is a serious problem for a liberal arts college! Thanks for your care and continued interest in our future! my best, Scott Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 4:57 PM wrote: >Yes, but I think the point is that the sciences have become unrepresented >at >Antioch, or as near as. Social Sciences, arts and humanities have become >the core program - not that these could not use some TLC as well. And >not >only sciences, but business studies as well. The person that I know who >has >come closest to winning that victory from my "generation" of Antioch >grads >had a business concentration. I don't think that even exists anymore. > >Kind regards, > >Stephanie >1989 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Scott Warren" >To: "Alumni Chat List" >Cc: "Alumni Chat List" >Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:31 PM >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch > > >HI, folks. > >I'm all for the sciences, too. But how about philosophy? Let's not >forget about philosophy, which is the core of liberal arts learning, and >which actually gave birth to the sciences with Plato and Aristotle. I >worry that we're going to lose sight of the importance not only of >philosophy, but of the humanities in general. It seems that in this day >and age, the humanities are central to our ability to ask the right >questions about the future of our human world! > >best, > >Scott Warren > > >Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 >at 8:59 AM wrote: > > >>Yay for more prominent sciences at Antioch. I'm all for this idea too >>(I think I post something similar every time Robert Abram's posts his >>ideas :) ) >> >>Along these lines we are talking about having some short classes/ >>workshops at 'Reunion v2' in late October (you can read about this >>idea on the Antiochians.org forums at http://forum.antiochians.org/ >>viewtopic.php?id=19646 ) . Do any Science folks want to come give a >>talk / class? I had already suggested we bribe Joe Yarkin in coming >>back to do a Solar Energy workshop but if folks have other ideas >>that'd be great too. One note, the 'Peak Oil' conference is also >>happening in Yellow Springs that weekend ( http:// >>www.communitysolution.org/conference.html ) so if this interests you >>you could always attend their events too ( I need to write them and >>talk about cross-polination of our events if ours is actually going >>to happen) >> >>Also, I was actually debating starting 'academic' themed mailing >>lists on antiochians.org so for example science students, faculty & >>alumni would have a list/forum to talk about related news, jobs, >>classes etc. I think we need to wait until fall when students hit >>campus to see if they are interested in joining a mailing list / >>forum or not. Hopefully with our newly discovered status of 'Hey the >>alumni are pretty cool' we can get some interest and hopefully build >>some momentum in this direction. What do others think about this idea? >> >>Again, more stuff we can do once we get those doors propped open. >>There is so much potential here, I really hope it's not all squandered. >> >>-Matt '92 >>_______________________________________________ >>Alumni-chat mailing list >>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From gerrybello at hotmail.com Tue Aug 7 17:24:14 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Tue Aug 7 17:37:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: it's really clear that all departments need beefing up ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "Scott Warren" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "Alumni Chat List" >CC: "Alumni Chat List" >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch >Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:12:35 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc8-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 7 >Aug 2007 14:13:07 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id B347A60E9B68;Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:26:21 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from mail.mcgregor.edu (unknown [206.21.41.184])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A7560E9B5C;Tue, 7 Aug 2007 17:26:20 -0400 (EDT) >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >vGzX0e+ktu7M8n+uKmK36V+tTcfyKjLOALR+zTXwiisXTmOMFvINtjnBMl1SWI035SfegkIjVoMCOpu7tQAzpA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-FC-SERVER-TZ: 15729388 >References: ><, > ><,><0E5AC9D5ADA9424FAFE473BFE2AF2D0D@Stephanie> >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Aug 2007 21:13:07.0831 (UTC) >FILETIME=[C06F8070:01C7D937] > >Dear Stephanie, > >Thanks for the reply. Just to set the record straight, here are the >numbers: > >We have 10 faculty members in the sciences. >We have 1 (yes, only one!) faculty member in philosophy. >We have 2 other faculty members in the humanities (2 in literature, 0 in >Languages, 0 in Religious Studies, 0 in History). >We have 2 (yes, two!) faculty members in management and business studies! > >It seems to me that philosophy and the humanities have become the grossly >unrepresented fields at Antioch (and ironically, we have the largest >number of majors at the College -- which is why I teach about 140 students >a year and have about 50 advisees). And I think that is a serious problem >for a liberal arts college! > >Thanks for your care and continued interest in our future! > >my best, > >Scott > > >Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 >at 4:57 PM wrote: > > > >Yes, but I think the point is that the sciences have become unrepresented > >at > >Antioch, or as near as. Social Sciences, arts and humanities have become > >the core program - not that these could not use some TLC as well. And > >not > >only sciences, but business studies as well. The person that I know who > >has > >come closest to winning that victory from my "generation" of Antioch > >grads > >had a business concentration. I don't think that even exists anymore. > > > >Kind regards, > > > >Stephanie > >1989 > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Scott Warren" > >To: "Alumni Chat List" > >Cc: "Alumni Chat List" > >Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:31 PM > >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch > > > > > >HI, folks. > > > >I'm all for the sciences, too. But how about philosophy? Let's not > >forget about philosophy, which is the core of liberal arts learning, and > >which actually gave birth to the sciences with Plato and Aristotle. I > >worry that we're going to lose sight of the importance not only of > >philosophy, but of the humanities in general. It seems that in this day > >and age, the humanities are central to our ability to ask the right > >questions about the future of our human world! > > > >best, > > > >Scott Warren > > > > > >Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 > >at 8:59 AM wrote: > > > > > >>Yay for more prominent sciences at Antioch. I'm all for this idea too > >>(I think I post something similar every time Robert Abram's posts his > >>ideas :) ) > >> > >>Along these lines we are talking about having some short classes/ > >>workshops at 'Reunion v2' in late October (you can read about this > >>idea on the Antiochians.org forums at http://forum.antiochians.org/ > >>viewtopic.php?id=19646 ) . Do any Science folks want to come give a > >>talk / class? I had already suggested we bribe Joe Yarkin in coming > >>back to do a Solar Energy workshop but if folks have other ideas > >>that'd be great too. One note, the 'Peak Oil' conference is also > >>happening in Yellow Springs that weekend ( http:// > >>www.communitysolution.org/conference.html ) so if this interests you > >>you could always attend their events too ( I need to write them and > >>talk about cross-polination of our events if ours is actually going > >>to happen) > >> > >>Also, I was actually debating starting 'academic' themed mailing > >>lists on antiochians.org so for example science students, faculty & > >>alumni would have a list/forum to talk about related news, jobs, > >>classes etc. I think we need to wait until fall when students hit > >>campus to see if they are interested in joining a mailing list / > >>forum or not. Hopefully with our newly discovered status of 'Hey the > >>alumni are pretty cool' we can get some interest and hopefully build > >>some momentum in this direction. What do others think about this idea? > >> > >>Again, more stuff we can do once we get those doors propped open. > >>There is so much potential here, I really hope it's not all squandered. > >> > >>-Matt '92 > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Alumni-chat mailing list > >>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > >>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Alumni-chat mailing list > >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Alumni-chat mailing list > >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 7 17:50:16 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (DCR91 (dcramm@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 7 18:03:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Scott-- Do you mean that there are no full-time faculty in languages, religious studies, and history? Those areas are covered entirely by adjuncts? Is that what you mean by "0 faculty"? Please clarify. Thanks, David From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 7 18:14:33 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 7 18:28:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear David, Yes, that's exactly what I mean. When my colleague Matt MacKenzie left for Muhlenberg College in Pennsylvania two years ago, that left us with no (I mean 0) person in Religious Studies. We couldn't replace his position. When Julie Gallagher in History left this year, that left us with no (again, I mean 0) person in History. Finally, when Harold Wright and Victor Garcia retired (last year), and when Ivan Dihoff left this year, that left us with no (again, I mean 0) people in Languages. So, that leaves three of us full-time faculty in the Humanities (me in Philosophy, Jean Gregorek in Literature, and Ben Grossberg in Creative Writing). That's it! And again, we have the most majors and are doing a hell of a lot of teaching! And our students are loving what we do. my very best, Scott Warren Associate Professor of Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 5:50 PM wrote: >Scott-- >Do you mean that there are no full-time faculty in languages, religious >studies, and history? Those areas are covered entirely by adjuncts? Is >that what you mean by "0 faculty"? >Please clarify. >Thanks, >David > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 7 18:26:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (DCR91 (dcramm@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 7 18:39:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8e54d220abfc590c1a6fdf4d8d80437a@antiochians.org> Scott-- Thanks for the clarification. My question about adjuncts remains open: those areas are taught by adjuncts? (Or are there simply no history, etc. courses taught at Antioch?) And a new question: do you know about how many adjuncts are used to cover those areas? I don't have a secret agenda here--I'm just a former humanities major (with a concentration in history) trying to get some information about a part of the College that means quite a bit to me. David From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 7 22:52:54 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 7 23:06:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why Antioch Died - Repost In-Reply-To: <8e54d220abfc590c1a6fdf4d8d80437a@antiochians.org> References: <8e54d220abfc590c1a6fdf4d8d80437a@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Dear David, Thanks for the reply. Well, we use adjuncts as needed. I've got a great one from the University of Cincinnati coming in this year to teach Critical Thinking and Ethics in the Fall, and Philosophy of Science and Intro. to Philosophy in the Spring -- while I'll teach Existentialism and Legitimation & Capitalism in the Fall, and Critical Thinking and History of Western Philosophy in the Spring. So we'll have a great offering in the Philosophy area. As for the other areas, we do what we can. With our recent budget crunch, it's been hard to replace full-time, tenure-track faculty positions. But we haven't given up! We'll keep working to keep the College open. Thanks for your concern and support. my best, Scott Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 at 6:26 PM wrote: >Scott-- >Thanks for the clarification. My question about adjuncts remains open: >those areas are taught by adjuncts? (Or are there simply no history, etc. >courses taught at Antioch?) And a new question: do you know about how >many adjuncts are used to cover those areas? I don't have a secret agenda >here--I'm just a former humanities major (with a concentration in >history) trying to get some information about a part of the College that >means quite a bit to me. >David > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 7 23:08:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 7 23:21:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter to UBoT from Nancy Crow, President of the Alumni Board Message-ID: <58061082bf3aa56bbcd47aab03ee91a6@antiochians.org> To: Chairperson Art Zucker, Members of the Antioch University Board of Trustees and Members of the University Leadership Council From: Nancy R. Crow, President of the Antioch College Alumni Association Date: August 7, 2007 I write to you on behalf of the Antioch College Alumni Association Board, the elected representative body of the 17, 000 or so Antioch College alums. We are looking forward to the August 16th webcast and of course to the August 25th special Board of Trustees meeting. Many of us have received our notices and have responded and are making our travel plans. Like you, we want this meeting to be productive, to move the agenda of rebuilding our Antioch College forward, and to find ways to raise funds and other support for our alma mater. We also agree wholeheartedly with your statement published in the Yellow Springs News that "it is critical that we have the participation and support of Antioch College's key stakeholders in this process." However, we believe in order to garner the support and participation of the "key stakeholders in this process," "key stakeholders" have to be both invited and allowed to participate in every step of the process, and as of now this has not taken place. Therefore we propose the following: 1) A conference call should be scheduled between now and the 19th of August to review and refashion the agenda that the Antioch University Board of Trustees has proposed. In addition to the Antioch University Board of Trustees Executive Committee, which sets the University Board of Trustees agenda, both the Executive Committee of the Alumni Board and representatives from the key stakeholder groups you have identified, that is, faculty, staff and students and Yellow Springs Community, should be invited to this discussion. If you want stakeholders' participation and support, the agenda must reflect the interests of all the stakeholders and not just one group. 2) In order for the August 25th meeting to have a positive outcome, we strongly urge you to rethink a number of your statements and agenda items: a) It is not conducive for a productive meeting to begin by saying in advance that any position taken by this Board of Trustees is "irreversible," and to warn invited participants that only certain discussions at this meeting will be allowed. Why not let all the stakeholders discuss the parameters of the Board agenda before the August meeting begins? b) The two hour open mic does not seem likely to lead to a positive outcome. Two hours, with five-minute time limits allows for 24 speakers, that is, if there are no pauses, time between speakers, technical glitches, people going over their time allotment and so forth. An open mic, with board members listening to one speaker after another, with no organization and no coherence will just lead to greater frustration and alienation. Furthermore, Mary Lou LaPierre's remarks about the possibility of "disruptive and disrespectful" participants did not set the best tone. Perhaps we could think of other ways to use this two-hour framework. For example, why not allow the alumni representatives to present their ideas? Why not allow a former board chair or former trustees to present a proposal? Why not allow the faculty and the student representatives some time to present their points of view as well? And if there are other stakeholders who have presented you with proposals, have them be invited as well. In this way there can be a range of proposals for all of us to discuss in the afternoon session. c) Finally we urge you to rethink the idea of a closed meeting. It is our heartfelt belief that had this board notified all stakeholders, alums, major donors, faculty, staff, former college presidents, former trustees and board chairs, the Yellow Springs community last fall, when there was the first realization of the depth of the financial crisis, and called upon all of us to work together to find a solution, there would be greater unity, participation and most important solutions to solving the college's problems. The more the University Board shrouds itself in secrecy, the greater the alienation from the very stakeholders it needs for the future of the college. We look forward to working with you. We want a positive outcome at the August 25th meeting, as well as at the October joint University Board of Trustees and Antioch College Alumni Board meetings. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 06:19:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)) Date: Wed Aug 8 06:32:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <09c901c7d8f6$b140d900$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: <2092f13fd37656b19d34a607de52ab63@antiochians.org> >1) Close the campus, terminate all academic staff. Sell the physical plant >either as a unit or piece by piece to the highest bidders. Howard, Antioch College is also a *place.* Keep in mind that the "physical plant" happens to be one of the most beautifully situated campuses in the country. The Glen is a unique and valuable asset, an aesthetic, spiritual, and emotional benefit appreciated by generations of students. Main Building is downright inspiring. What you are proposing here is a corporate raid and liquidation and I find it morally and ethically repugnant. From mwillits at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 8 09:12:46 2007 From: mwillits at antioch-college.edu (MaryAnn Willits) Date: Wed Aug 8 09:26:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch In-Reply-To: References: <, > < > <,> < > <0E5AC9D5ADA9424FAFE473BFE2AF2D0D@Stephanie> <,> Message-ID: Just to clarify things, right now (today, might change tomorrow) the science department (physics, math, computer science, biology, enviromental science and chemistry) has only 8 faculty for next year, we might be like other departments, need adjuncts or do without, several of our faculty are teaching 3-4 classes per term, plus lab times. just an update from the science tech Mary Ann Willits Antioch College Science Technician; mother of an alum '03; Antioch employee since 1990 937-769-1184 mwillits@antioch-college.edu Alumni Chat List writes: >Dear Stephanie, > >Thanks for the reply. Just to set the record straight, here are the >numbers: > >We have 10 faculty members in the sciences. >We have 1 (yes, only one!) faculty member in philosophy. >We have 2 other faculty members in the humanities (2 in literature, 0 in >Languages, 0 in Religious Studies, 0 in History). >We have 2 (yes, two!) faculty members in management and business studies! > >It seems to me that philosophy and the humanities have become the grossly >unrepresented fields at Antioch (and ironically, we have the largest >number of majors at the College -- which is why I teach about 140 students >a year and have about 50 advisees). And I think that is a serious problem >for a liberal arts college! > >Thanks for your care and continued interest in our future! > >my best, > >Scott > > >Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 >at 4:57 PM wrote: > > >>Yes, but I think the point is that the sciences have become unrepresented >>at >>Antioch, or as near as. Social Sciences, arts and humanities have >become >>the core program - not that these could not use some TLC as well. And >>not >>only sciences, but business studies as well. The person that I know who >>has >>come closest to winning that victory from my "generation" of Antioch >>grads >>had a business concentration. I don't think that even exists anymore. >> >>Kind regards, >> >>Stephanie >>1989 >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Scott Warren" >>To: "Alumni Chat List" >>Cc: "Alumni Chat List" >>Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:31 PM >>Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Sciences @ Antioch >> >> >>HI, folks. >> >>I'm all for the sciences, too. But how about philosophy? Let's not >>forget about philosophy, which is the core of liberal arts learning, and >>which actually gave birth to the sciences with Plato and Aristotle. I >>worry that we're going to lose sight of the importance not only of >>philosophy, but of the humanities in general. It seems that in this day >>and age, the humanities are central to our ability to ask the right >>questions about the future of our human world! >> >>best, >> >>Scott Warren >> >> >>Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 7, 2007 >>at 8:59 AM wrote: >> >> >>>Yay for more prominent sciences at Antioch. I'm all for this idea too >>>(I think I post something similar every time Robert Abram's posts his >>>ideas :) ) >>> >>>Along these lines we are talking about having some short classes/ >>>workshops at 'Reunion v2' in late October (you can read about this >>>idea on the Antiochians.org forums at http://forum.antiochians.org/ >>>viewtopic.php?id=19646 ) . Do any Science folks want to come give a >>>talk / class? I had already suggested we bribe Joe Yarkin in coming >>>back to do a Solar Energy workshop but if folks have other ideas >>>that'd be great too. One note, the 'Peak Oil' conference is also >>>happening in Yellow Springs that weekend ( http:// >>>www.communitysolution.org/conference.html ) so if this interests you >>>you could always attend their events too ( I need to write them and >>>talk about cross-polination of our events if ours is actually going >>>to happen) >>> >>>Also, I was actually debating starting 'academic' themed mailing >>>lists on antiochians.org so for example science students, faculty & >>>alumni would have a list/forum to talk about related news, jobs, >>>classes etc. I think we need to wait until fall when students hit >>>campus to see if they are interested in joining a mailing list / >>>forum or not. Hopefully with our newly discovered status of 'Hey the >>>alumni are pretty cool' we can get some interest and hopefully build >>>some momentum in this direction. What do others think about this idea? >>> >>>Again, more stuff we can do once we get those doors propped open. >>>There is so much potential here, I really hope it's not all squandered. >>> >>>-Matt '92 >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Alumni-chat mailing list >>>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >>>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Alumni-chat mailing list >>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Alumni-chat mailing list >>Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >>Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 09:33:33 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 09:46:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] United States Air Force Joins the Looting Message-ID: <35cc0ac5a73f02902bb375debbd2bd63@www.antiochians.org> Please note that Dave Boyer works for General Dynamics and is seeking to build and office building next door the the new McGregor facility. Barbara Danely sits on the Board of the Dayton Developement Corporation which hands out BRAC (Base Relocation and Closure Commission) money. What is the Connection? ----G *Chamber Member Meeting* August 9th at 9 am Bryan Center A&B special presentation on BRAC and other developments at WPAFB by Dave Boyer & Capt. Anita Skipper From howardh0336 at comcast.net Wed Aug 8 10:06:12 2007 From: howardh0336 at comcast.net (Howard at Glenn Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 8 10:19:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become References: Message-ID: <0a8a01c7d9c5$476e3ca0$6501a8c0@hhhome> Hi Pam, You have some good ideas. A student body of at least 1000 is a must. I like 1200. But why create (re-create) this college in YSO? I think the physical plant and the history is getting in the way. Why not just merge with Bard or Goddard or Reed ? Howard Hammerman '66 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Olsen" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:01 AM Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become >I have some thoughts to share about how to figure out why Antioch failed >and > what it should become. > > Last month, Bob Devine posted a post about why he thought the renewal > program failed. Check out July, before the middle of the month, if you > didn't catch it. Of if he's listening, perhaps he can repost. He oughta > know... > > as for discovering the cause of the general decline (and the rebuilding of > Antioch), I think we should do some systematic (phenomenological) > research. > For example, > > I believe the Alumni Office has stats on what graduates have done with > themselves after leaving Antioch, e.g., how many received graduate > fellowships, how many went on to get advanced degrees, what kinds of > awards > they have received, books written, etc. It might be very interesting to > look at these stats (and the folks that work in that office might have a > very good sense of trends) and see what the trends are/were and when, if > ever, they changed, and try and connect those changes to changes in > curriculum and/or events on campus in the years prior. I know that the > strike was a devatasting blow and as far as I know, the census never > recovered. Without a decent census, we can't take in the money to pay the > faculty, keep up the plant, etc. We could track when it increased and > what > was going on, and when it decreased and what was going on, in the years > since the strike. Maybe then we could get a better handle on why it's > failed. We might also write to students who left and find out why. AND > WE > NEED TO LISTEN TO THEM! They can probably tell us more than anything > else. > I think perhaps it's also important to look at the national trends. I > take > it that Goddard and Bard have also had difficulty. Maybe radical just > isn't selling in today's world, and if not, we need to bring it down a few > notches. Which gets me to my next point. > > If we're going to find a niche to fill, then I think we have to know what > the educational world is like out there. I would suggest a process > something like the following: > > 1. have a general idea of what kinds of problems we'd like to address (we > seem to be in some agreement--the few of us that have spoken to this-- > that > we'd like to combine a rigorous educational program with work to address > serious problems facing the world today, and possibly in some kind of > interdisciplinary program (although I don't know why students who want a > traditional science, math or history program, for example, couldn't have > that, too. some people just want a good solid foundation in a subject so > that they can go on.). > > 2. Study the catalogues of virtually every small liberal arts college in > the country and find out which ones are succeeding and why, and which ones > aren't doing so well. Talk to some students in the best and the worst > and > find out what they like and what they would change. > > 3. In doing this, find out where the gaps are, given the problems facing > the planet, or what programs are very popular but can't serve all the > students who apply. > > 4. Talk to top high school students around the country and find out what > kinds of problems they're concerned about for the world and what kinds of > ways they would like to help, thus, what kind of training they would like > to > get. They could be presented with some options we've concocted, and see > which ones interest them most. After I put in my little note about a > health > practitioner, I wondered whether any youth today would be interested in > working with the aging, and last night at a friend's house, I heard their > 20 > year old daughter talking about her college program in gerontology. It's > out there, and students are interested, apparently. > > (When I first went to college, I didn't have a clue what kinds of things > were available, though, so I think we should assume that students have a > fairly limited perspective in high school. What do you want to bet there > are a lot of CSI wannabes out there? Still, it's high school kids we have > to attract, so I guess we need to know what they want. > > Perhaps, however, we could also aim at Jr. Colleges. That would help us > to > take in upper classmen right away.) > > 4. After doing all of this, hone in on a few ideas for programs and > consult > with alumni or friends of alumni (or just plain well known experts) in > these > fields (My husband's best friend has worked for a charitable foundation > for > over 20 years and was their Middle East Expert for 10. He has a lot of > ideas about how to better run a foundation (than the one he works for, > which > is better than most), not to mention what is going on in the MIddle East. > I > would imagine he'd be happy to brainstorm with us, and he's probably the > brightest and best educated guy I know--he might even be interested in a > teaching position--if he could do it out of New York, and with today's > technology, why couldn't teachers be all over the country? Maybe we can > do > a new twist to distance learning: the students stay on campus in a > community, and some of the faculty work from far away, and come to campus > a > couple of weeks each quarter....it might save us some money to hire some > people part time this way, and also get some top-notch experts). > > > Anyway, let these consultants design their dream program, talk to a few > more > experts in these fields and get their feedback and tweak it. And write it > up with specific courses, course contents, goals of each (possibly > interdisciplinary) department, and so forth. Along with potential > interested faculty names, which might include some current Antioch > faculty, > for gosh sakes! > > At this point, with all research carefully recorded and a plan in writing, > it should be very possible to go to potential donors and say hey, we've > done > all this research, and we think we know why Antioch failed, we've learned > from our mistakes, we know what works and what doesn't around the country, > and we know where the educational gaps or opportunities are, and we've > designed these programs to fill those gaps, will you help us fund them? I > mean, do you think Clinton or Gates would be interested in helping to > train > people to work for their foundations? I dunno, but why not aim for > something like that? Maybe they at least have some ideas. > > personally, I think donors would be much more interested in helping if we > have some concrete research to show them, and a well formulated plan. > > And then we hire some phenomenal marketer, and market it. Personally, I > think we should aim for a student body of at least 1000, to be built in > four > years from the time we start (or maybe sooner if we take in folks from Jr. > Colleges)....anything less than that just won't generate enough money to > have a diverse enough faculty and keep the plant in good Feng shui > condition! > > Oh, and we should charge just a few K less than the typical Small > College....Money talks. > > My two cents! > > Pam ('68) > > > From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 10:14:47 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 8 10:28:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become In-Reply-To: <0a8a01c7d9c5$476e3ca0$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: >From: "Howard at Glenn Riddle" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "Alumni Chat List" >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become >Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:06:12 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc3-f23.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 8 >Aug 2007 07:06:23 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 434F260EC7D3;Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:19:41 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net >[204.127.192.81])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE3260EC7B4for >; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:19:39 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from hhhome >(c-71-200-143-140.hsd1.md.comcast.net[71.200.143.140])by comcast.net >(rwcrmhc11) with SMTPid <20070808140619m11001310pe>; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 >14:06:19 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >vGzX0e+ktu6J+F3Iw5yOtqb64dxOPMjkm6oISKvYYvKDpFy4cVEB7vZm6zAiUi4ZWH2/JZhNCfV8WdJb+JoSEA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2007 14:06:23.0844 (UTC) >FILETIME=[4DAEE240:01C7D9C5] > >Hi Pam, > >You have some good ideas. A student body of at least 1000 is a must. I >like 1200. > >But why create (re-create) this college in YSO? > >I think the physical plant and the history is getting in the way. > >Why not just merge with Bard or Goddard or Reed ? > Howard... The HISTORY IS THE COLLEGE. Good, Bad and funny lookin. We are Antioch, We are not Bard, Goddard or Reed. They are their own places, with their own places with their own histories. I understand that you are loaded down with your own self hatred about your Antioch Education and wish in your old age to drag people on your suicide trip and erase everthing you dont like about Antioch becuase you are a soulless backstabber... but that is not what we all are here for. If you like self-negation so much there is bleach under your sink and glasses in the cupboard. Drink up. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From howardh0336 at comcast.net Wed Aug 8 10:14:46 2007 From: howardh0336 at comcast.net (Howard at Glenn Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 8 10:28:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... References: <000501c7d161$01790610$046b1230$@net><071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome><001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net><00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f><09c901c7d8f6$b140d900$6501a8c0@hhhome> <734B48E0-D54B-445E-8CDF-BB2B616565D2@pobox.com> Message-ID: <0a9601c7d9c6$7a033110$6501a8c0@hhhome> Beth, I never meant to imply that faculty salaries were a problem. I was just suggesting that some of us grads with Ph.D.s, who are sort of long in the tooth with extra time on our hands might enjoy several quarters back in the classroom. In front of the classroom. I would. That's all. No, the problem is ANYTHING BUT faculty salaries. I will never forget my conversations with Everett Wilson, the Chairman of the Sociology/Anthropology Dept. in 1965-66. He fought against the changes and lost. He quit in 1966 and moved to Ann Arbor. I had dinner with him there and he was full of disappointment. He had been at Antioch for more than a decade. He had written a text book. He just could not stay there with the changes away from a rigorous academic program. Howard Hammerman 1966 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Moloney" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... > Howard - > > Interesting idea, however... > > "big salaries"? I think you must think that Antioch professors are > extremely well paid and that somehow they are to blame for the downfall > of Antioch. As I'm sure other folks will tell you, that certainly isn't > the case. > > A few assumptions on my part - There is something called a living wage in > this country and I think everyone has a right to it. If anything, if I > was a parent, I would want my children's teachers to be paid a living > wage and then some. After all, if you are going to invest in anything, > shouldn't it be your children by way of their teachers, who are going to > help mold the way your child walks around in the world, shouldn't they > get reimbursed more than most? > > HOWEVER - even if you think teachers are paid too much, I still think > your argument implies that the salaries are too blame (rather than > mismanagement at a higher level). This is the same train of thought that > argues against organized labor (if those workers just got paid less, the > company wouldn't have to hire scabs, or leave the town, or shut the plant > down, or charge "so much" for tickets). My brother, a union pilot, > recently got laid off from his company because it wasn't "profitable > enough". This company, which is a fraction of the size of say, > Southwest, has a CEO who gets paid 7 times as MUCH as the CEO of > Southwest. Needless to say, Southwest is hiring and my brother's company > was laying off a 1/3 of their pilots. His union, luckily, is a strong > one and saved his job and stopped the layoffs. Blaming faculty salaries > is the same as blaming these particular pilots in this situation. > Woudn't you say the trail of blame lies higher up? Would you also be > against tenure at this new version of Antioch? > > - beth '95 > > > On Aug 7, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Howard at Glenn Riddle wrote: > >> >> >> 4) Staff the foundation with Antioch grads. Perhaps retired or >> semi-retired grads who don't need big salaries. Create an advisory >> board with regular net-meetings. >> >> >> >> Howard Hammerman, Class of 1966 >> >> > > > From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 10:18:15 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 8 10:31:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <0a9601c7d9c6$7a033110$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: Howard... why do we need to change things in order to satisfy somebody WHO IS LONG DEAD? For an idea that is FOURTY YEARS OLD? "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "Howard at Glenn Riddle" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "Alumni Chat List" >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... >Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:14:46 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc8-f21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 8 >Aug 2007 07:14:57 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id D355460EC846;Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:28:15 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net >[204.127.192.82])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91A860EC831for >; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:28:13 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from hhhome >(c-71-200-143-140.hsd1.md.comcast.net[71.200.143.140])by comcast.net >(rwcrmhc12) with SMTPid <20070808141453m1200dikvje>; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 >14:14:53 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >vGzX0e+ktu6jzW3YIyVKt4WOmlhRUJxsuQtt4c127JeQ787k+9OrVIaGDdurAlMJBkOtQEoxJubYQ/Uo6H1boA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: ><000501c7d161$01790610$046b1230$@net><071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome><001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net><00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f><09c901c7d8f6$b140d900$6501a8c0@hhhome><734B48E0-D54B-445E-8CDF-BB2B616565D2@pobox.com> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2007 14:14:58.0091 (UTC) >FILETIME=[8032BFB0:01C7D9C6] > >Beth, > >I never meant to imply that faculty salaries were a problem. I was just >suggesting that some of us grads with Ph.D.s, who are sort of long in the >tooth with extra time on our hands might enjoy several quarters back in the >classroom. In front of the classroom. I would. > >That's all. > >No, the problem is ANYTHING BUT faculty salaries. > >I will never forget my conversations with Everett Wilson, the Chairman of >the Sociology/Anthropology Dept. in 1965-66. He fought against the changes >and lost. He quit in 1966 and moved to Ann Arbor. I had dinner with him >there and he was full of disappointment. He had been at Antioch for more >than a decade. He had written a text book. He just could not stay there >with the changes away from a rigorous academic program. > >Howard Hammerman 1966 >----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Moloney" >To: "Alumni Chat List" >Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:57 AM >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... > > >>Howard - >> >>Interesting idea, however... >> >>"big salaries"? I think you must think that Antioch professors are >>extremely well paid and that somehow they are to blame for the downfall >>of Antioch. As I'm sure other folks will tell you, that certainly isn't >>the case. >> >>A few assumptions on my part - There is something called a living wage in >>this country and I think everyone has a right to it. If anything, if I >>was a parent, I would want my children's teachers to be paid a living >>wage and then some. After all, if you are going to invest in anything, >>shouldn't it be your children by way of their teachers, who are going to >>help mold the way your child walks around in the world, shouldn't they >>get reimbursed more than most? >> >>HOWEVER - even if you think teachers are paid too much, I still think your >>argument implies that the salaries are too blame (rather than >>mismanagement at a higher level). This is the same train of thought that >>argues against organized labor (if those workers just got paid less, the >>company wouldn't have to hire scabs, or leave the town, or shut the plant >>down, or charge "so much" for tickets). My brother, a union pilot, >>recently got laid off from his company because it wasn't "profitable >>enough". This company, which is a fraction of the size of say, >>Southwest, has a CEO who gets paid 7 times as MUCH as the CEO of >>Southwest. Needless to say, Southwest is hiring and my brother's company >>was laying off a 1/3 of their pilots. His union, luckily, is a strong >>one and saved his job and stopped the layoffs. Blaming faculty salaries >>is the same as blaming these particular pilots in this situation. Woudn't >>you say the trail of blame lies higher up? Would you also be against >>tenure at this new version of Antioch? >> >>- beth '95 >> >> >>On Aug 7, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Howard at Glenn Riddle wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>4) Staff the foundation with Antioch grads. Perhaps retired or >>>semi-retired grads who don't need big salaries. Create an advisory board >>>with regular net-meetings. >>> >>> >>> >>>Howard Hammerman, Class of 1966 >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From stephanie.scott at totalise.co.uk Wed Aug 8 10:25:27 2007 From: stephanie.scott at totalise.co.uk (Stephanie Scott) Date: Wed Aug 8 10:38:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become In-Reply-To: <0a8a01c7d9c5$476e3ca0$6501a8c0@hhhome> References: <0a8a01c7d9c5$476e3ca0$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: <79ECEDDD1B1647D2BE270F3C8AB98358@Stephanie> urg - sorry to be rude, but I *hate* this idea - there would be nothing left of Antioch. I'm all for fresh, challenging rethinks, but no. way. Stephanie 1989 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard at Glenn Riddle" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become > Hi Pam, > > You have some good ideas. A student body of at least 1000 is a must. I > like 1200. > > But why create (re-create) this college in YSO? > > I think the physical plant and the history is getting in the way. > > Why not just merge with Bard or Goddard or Reed ? > > Howard Hammerman '66 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pam Olsen" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:01 AM > Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become > > >>I have some thoughts to share about how to figure out why Antioch failed >>and >> what it should become. >> >> Last month, Bob Devine posted a post about why he thought the renewal >> program failed. Check out July, before the middle of the month, if you >> didn't catch it. Of if he's listening, perhaps he can repost. He oughta >> know... >> >> as for discovering the cause of the general decline (and the rebuilding >> of >> Antioch), I think we should do some systematic (phenomenological) >> research. >> For example, >> >> I believe the Alumni Office has stats on what graduates have done with >> themselves after leaving Antioch, e.g., how many received graduate >> fellowships, how many went on to get advanced degrees, what kinds of >> awards >> they have received, books written, etc. It might be very interesting to >> look at these stats (and the folks that work in that office might have a >> very good sense of trends) and see what the trends are/were and when, if >> ever, they changed, and try and connect those changes to changes in >> curriculum and/or events on campus in the years prior. I know that the >> strike was a devatasting blow and as far as I know, the census never >> recovered. Without a decent census, we can't take in the money to pay >> the >> faculty, keep up the plant, etc. We could track when it increased and >> what >> was going on, and when it decreased and what was going on, in the years >> since the strike. Maybe then we could get a better handle on why it's >> failed. We might also write to students who left and find out why. AND >> WE >> NEED TO LISTEN TO THEM! They can probably tell us more than anything >> else. >> I think perhaps it's also important to look at the national trends. I >> take >> it that Goddard and Bard have also had difficulty. Maybe radical just >> isn't selling in today's world, and if not, we need to bring it down a >> few >> notches. Which gets me to my next point. >> >> If we're going to find a niche to fill, then I think we have to know what >> the educational world is like out there. I would suggest a process >> something like the following: >> >> 1. have a general idea of what kinds of problems we'd like to address >> (we >> seem to be in some agreement--the few of us that have spoken to this-- >> that >> we'd like to combine a rigorous educational program with work to address >> serious problems facing the world today, and possibly in some kind of >> interdisciplinary program (although I don't know why students who want a >> traditional science, math or history program, for example, couldn't have >> that, too. some people just want a good solid foundation in a subject so >> that they can go on.). >> >> 2. Study the catalogues of virtually every small liberal arts college in >> the country and find out which ones are succeeding and why, and which >> ones >> aren't doing so well. Talk to some students in the best and the worst >> and >> find out what they like and what they would change. >> >> 3. In doing this, find out where the gaps are, given the problems facing >> the planet, or what programs are very popular but can't serve all the >> students who apply. >> >> 4. Talk to top high school students around the country and find out what >> kinds of problems they're concerned about for the world and what kinds of >> ways they would like to help, thus, what kind of training they would like >> to >> get. They could be presented with some options we've concocted, and see >> which ones interest them most. After I put in my little note about a >> health >> practitioner, I wondered whether any youth today would be interested in >> working with the aging, and last night at a friend's house, I heard their >> 20 >> year old daughter talking about her college program in gerontology. It's >> out there, and students are interested, apparently. >> >> (When I first went to college, I didn't have a clue what kinds of things >> were available, though, so I think we should assume that students have a >> fairly limited perspective in high school. What do you want to bet there >> are a lot of CSI wannabes out there? Still, it's high school kids we >> have >> to attract, so I guess we need to know what they want. >> >> Perhaps, however, we could also aim at Jr. Colleges. That would help us >> to >> take in upper classmen right away.) >> >> 4. After doing all of this, hone in on a few ideas for programs and >> consult >> with alumni or friends of alumni (or just plain well known experts) in >> these >> fields (My husband's best friend has worked for a charitable foundation >> for >> over 20 years and was their Middle East Expert for 10. He has a lot of >> ideas about how to better run a foundation (than the one he works for, >> which >> is better than most), not to mention what is going on in the MIddle East. >> I >> would imagine he'd be happy to brainstorm with us, and he's probably the >> brightest and best educated guy I know--he might even be interested in a >> teaching position--if he could do it out of New York, and with today's >> technology, why couldn't teachers be all over the country? Maybe we can >> do >> a new twist to distance learning: the students stay on campus in a >> community, and some of the faculty work from far away, and come to campus >> a >> couple of weeks each quarter....it might save us some money to hire some >> people part time this way, and also get some top-notch experts). >> >> >> Anyway, let these consultants design their dream program, talk to a few >> more >> experts in these fields and get their feedback and tweak it. And write >> it >> up with specific courses, course contents, goals of each (possibly >> interdisciplinary) department, and so forth. Along with potential >> interested faculty names, which might include some current Antioch >> faculty, >> for gosh sakes! >> >> At this point, with all research carefully recorded and a plan in >> writing, >> it should be very possible to go to potential donors and say hey, we've >> done >> all this research, and we think we know why Antioch failed, we've learned >> from our mistakes, we know what works and what doesn't around the >> country, >> and we know where the educational gaps or opportunities are, and we've >> designed these programs to fill those gaps, will you help us fund them? >> I >> mean, do you think Clinton or Gates would be interested in helping to >> train >> people to work for their foundations? I dunno, but why not aim for >> something like that? Maybe they at least have some ideas. >> >> personally, I think donors would be much more interested in helping if we >> have some concrete research to show them, and a well formulated plan. >> >> And then we hire some phenomenal marketer, and market it. Personally, I >> think we should aim for a student body of at least 1000, to be built in >> four >> years from the time we start (or maybe sooner if we take in folks from >> Jr. >> Colleges)....anything less than that just won't generate enough money to >> have a diverse enough faculty and keep the plant in good Feng shui >> condition! >> >> Oh, and we should charge just a few K less than the typical Small >> College....Money talks. >> >> My two cents! >> >> Pam ('68) >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From howardh0336 at comcast.net Wed Aug 8 10:25:22 2007 From: howardh0336 at comcast.net (Howard at Glenn Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 8 10:38:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... References: <2092f13fd37656b19d34a607de52ab63@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <0ac201c7d9c7$f5efa0f0$6501a8c0@hhhome> Katherine Anne, When a person has died we dispose of the body in a respectful way. The accomplishments of the person are remembered and honored. His/her assets are distributed to beneficiaries. So too when an institution dies we must create a respectful funeral and continue the ideals and accomplishments in other settings. I am sure we could find a conservation foundation to take over the Glenn. The buildings could be sold either as a package or one at a time, to another college to a prep school. Maybe a developer would be interested in the golf course. Perhaps the Fells foundation would like to expand. The bottom line is the patient is no longer breathing. It is not morally repugnant to respectfully take the patient off of life support. Howard Hammerman, 1966 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... > >>1) Close the campus, terminate all academic staff. Sell the physical plant >>either as a unit or piece by piece to the highest bidders. > Howard, > Antioch College is also a *place.* > Keep in mind that the "physical plant" happens to be one of the most > beautifully situated campuses in the country. > The Glen is a unique and valuable asset, an aesthetic, spiritual, and > emotional benefit appreciated by generations of students. > Main Building is downright inspiring. > > What you are proposing here is a corporate raid and liquidation and I find > it morally and ethically repugnant. > > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 10:25:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 10:38:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become In-Reply-To: <0a8a01c7d9c5$476e3ca0$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: >Why not just merge with Bard or Goddard or Reed ? Didn't Goddard's undergraduate residential program go belly up? Do you want to bring their management team on board? In my opinion, AC and YSO are integral in together forming the Antioch adventure. I can't imagine any good reason to move AC. YSO has been tremendously loyal to AC for over 150 years. Howard, did you really routinely throw Antioch grads in a reject pile and refuse to bat for Antioch candidates to your graduate program at Cornell because they had evaluations in lieu of grades? If so, I think your credibility in this forum is questionable. There are many of us, myself included, that went on to graduate school despite the rarity of some bitter alumni, such as yourself, sabotaging our applications. My law school routinely accepted Antioch grads. There were even a few Antioch alumni teaching at the law school. Perhaps you need to do some introspection, reconcile your anger, and be truthful to yourself. From wasb at albany.edu Wed Aug 8 11:53:18 2007 From: wasb at albany.edu (Stephen L. Wasby) Date: Wed Aug 8 12:07:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... References: <000501c7d161$01790610$046b1230$@net><071201c7d6df$93844a00$6501a8c0@hhhome><001f01c7d838$3e63bb00$bb2b3100$@net><00cc01c7d876$44ad0a00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f><09c901c7d8f6$b140d900$6501a8c0@hhhome><734B48E0-D54B-445E-8CDF-BB2B616565D2@pobox.com> <0a9601c7d9c6$7a033110$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: <003701c7d9d4$3f315400$5a761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> At one time, Hastings College of Law (part of the UC system, in San Francisco, for those who don't know it) hired people "over 65" intentionally -- got some fine professors who had the advantage of their pensions from their "home institutions" plus a salary from Hastings that was less than Hastings would have had to pay "newly minted" law profs. I suspect some of us "longer in the tooth" types would come for bare expenses and some might even go completely pro bono. (And there are mini-courses: intensive one- or two-weeks courses with reading done before the instructors comes to campus. I've done that at Antioch.) Steve Wasby '59 (pol sci, emeritus) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard at Glenn Riddle" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... > Beth, > > I never meant to imply that faculty salaries were a problem. I was just > suggesting that some of us grads with Ph.D.s, who are sort of long in the > tooth with extra time on our hands might enjoy several quarters back in > the classroom. In front of the classroom. I would. > > That's all. > > No, the problem is ANYTHING BUT faculty salaries. > > I will never forget my conversations with Everett Wilson, the Chairman of > the Sociology/Anthropology Dept. in 1965-66. He fought against the > changes and lost. He quit in 1966 and moved to Ann Arbor. I had dinner > with him there and he was full of disappointment. He had been at Antioch > for more than a decade. He had written a text book. He just could not > stay there with the changes away from a rigorous academic program. > > Howard Hammerman 1966 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elizabeth Moloney" > To: "Alumni Chat List" > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... > > >> Howard - >> >> Interesting idea, however... >> >> "big salaries"? I think you must think that Antioch professors are >> extremely well paid and that somehow they are to blame for the downfall >> of Antioch. As I'm sure other folks will tell you, that certainly isn't >> the case. >> >> A few assumptions on my part - There is something called a living wage >> in this country and I think everyone has a right to it. If anything, if >> I was a parent, I would want my children's teachers to be paid a living >> wage and then some. After all, if you are going to invest in anything, >> shouldn't it be your children by way of their teachers, who are going to >> help mold the way your child walks around in the world, shouldn't they >> get reimbursed more than most? >> >> HOWEVER - even if you think teachers are paid too much, I still think >> your argument implies that the salaries are too blame (rather than >> mismanagement at a higher level). This is the same train of thought >> that argues against organized labor (if those workers just got paid >> less, the company wouldn't have to hire scabs, or leave the town, or >> shut the plant down, or charge "so much" for tickets). My brother, a >> union pilot, recently got laid off from his company because it wasn't >> "profitable enough". This company, which is a fraction of the size of >> say, Southwest, has a CEO who gets paid 7 times as MUCH as the CEO of >> Southwest. Needless to say, Southwest is hiring and my brother's >> company was laying off a 1/3 of their pilots. His union, luckily, is a >> strong one and saved his job and stopped the layoffs. Blaming faculty >> salaries is the same as blaming these particular pilots in this >> situation. Woudn't you say the trail of blame lies higher up? Would you >> also be against tenure at this new version of Antioch? >> >> - beth '95 >> >> >> On Aug 7, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Howard at Glenn Riddle wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 4) Staff the foundation with Antioch grads. Perhaps retired or >>> semi-retired grads who don't need big salaries. Create an advisory >>> board with regular net-meetings. >>> >>> >>> >>> Howard Hammerman, Class of 1966 >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: > 269.11.8/940 - Release Date: 8/6/2007 4:53 PM > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 11:54:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 12:07:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth Message-ID: <62b9dfe0311fa9fb12257e12ced8dcb2@antiochians.org> "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell Please take note that I will not be using my work e-mail address for any further correspondence to this list or for sending or receiving e-mails to anyone with an antioch e-mail address as my firm has kindly asked me to refrain from doing so from my work computer and I am more than willing to comply with their request. I have no way of knowing if, in an attempt to silence or intimidate me, someone from this list reported me to my firm. If, however, some from this list did, in fact, do so, your attempt to have me fired failed. I would also like to address another issue. Bob Devine has threatened to sue me for libel (off-list) for some comments I made some time ago on this chat. I would like to remind everyone that truth is a defense for libel. I have not made any false statements on this chat and any questions I have posed are questions I am/was seeking answers to. I refuse to be intimidated by threats of any kind or silenced by anyone. I'm sure any graduate of Antioch or any thinking person can understand my strong feelings on this issue. Thank you. Debra Goodman (graduate of the class of 1983) From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 12:21:44 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 12:35:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] common bloody decency Message-ID: <5a62461348b00c871768f08af67250fd@www.antiochians.org> I don't care if you hate the guts of someone online, if you think they are the axe murderer chopping up little antioch babies.... You DONT report them to their workplace. That's out of line. Robin '91 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 12:31:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 12:45:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth In-Reply-To: <62b9dfe0311fa9fb12257e12ced8dcb2@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <916a63524922658a12d1e343e33413cb@www.antiochians.org> >"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell > >Please take note that I will not be using my work e-mail address for any further correspondence to this list or for sending or receiving e-mails to anyone with an antioch e-mail address as my firm has kindly asked me to refrain from doing so from my work computer and I am more than willing to comply with their request. > >I have no way of knowing if, in an attempt to silence or intimidate me, someone from this list reported me to my firm. If, however, some from this list did, in fact, do so, your attempt to have me fired failed. > >I would also like to address another issue. Bob Devine has threatened to sue me for libel (off-list) for some comments I made some time ago on this chat. I would like to remind everyone that truth is a defense for libel. I have not made any false statements on this chat and any questions I have posed are questions I am/was seeking answers to. I refuse to be intimidated by threats of any kind or silenced by anyone. I'm sure any graduate of Antioch or any thinking person can understand my strong feelings on this issue. > >Thank you. > >Debra Goodman (graduate of the class of 1983) Okay... just to be clear before somebody gets ideas... It wasnt me, I dont play like that. Nor do I condone it. But before somebody says it... No... From aadole at adelphia.net Wed Aug 8 15:48:32 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:01:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker Message-ID: Yesterday I received a letter from Arthur J. Zucker, Chair Antioch University Board of Trustees, dated July 23 and addressed to "Dear Antioch Community." Postage was .085. I assume you have heard or will hear in detail about various meetings on August 16 and August 25 because "we haven't effectively communicated the process leading up to the Board's decision on June 9 to suspend operations at Antioch College." Mr. Zucker concludes, "The Board will not reverse ...the decision to suspend operations as of July 1, 2008," and he hopes that Antioch College's stakeholders will cooperate and work together collaboratively. I hope those stakeholders who are invited to participate in "a facilitated discussion with the Antioch leadership team" will ask some searching questions such as "How much is Antioch College worth, including its physical plant and endowment?" or "For the latest fiscal year what were Antioch University's income and expenses?" or "How much is Antioch University's endowment and of that how much was given originally to Antioch College?" I for one do not feel particularly collaborative. Art Dole '46 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 13:07:42 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:21:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5225285391592e7d326a64e846ce79ad@www.antiochians.org> The term "collaborate" is rather an interesting one in a historical sense, isn't it? "Come on...make it easier...turn in the malcontents...I know you don't like us, but really, we have authority and titles." Collaborate like Europe 1942. >Yesterday I received a letter from Arthur J. Zucker, Chair Antioch >University Board of Trustees, dated July 23 and addressed to "Dear Antioch >Community." Postage was .085. I assume you have heard or will hear in >detail about various meetings on August 16 and August 25 because "we >haven't effectively communicated the process leading up to the Board's >decision on June 9 to suspend operations at Antioch College." > >Mr. Zucker concludes, "The Board will not reverse ...the decision to suspend >operations as of July 1, 2008," and he hopes that Antioch College's >stakeholders will cooperate and work together collaboratively. > >I hope those stakeholders who are invited to participate in "a facilitated >discussion with the Antioch leadership team" will ask some searching >questions such as "How much is Antioch College worth, including its physical >plant and endowment?" or "For the latest fiscal year what were Antioch >University's income and expenses?" or "How much is Antioch University's >endowment and of that how much was given originally to Antioch College?" > >I for one do not feel particularly collaborative. > >Art Dole '46 > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 13:09:58 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:23:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <5225285391592e7d326a64e846ce79ad@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: what is even more interesting than what happened with collaboraters in 1942 is what happened with them in 1945 _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 13:13:52 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:27:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker Message-ID: <974406.82281.qm@web53411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ja -- achtung, alumni! Vee haff vays off making you talk! Okay, game over. We've totally violated Godwin's Rule. >Collaborate like Europe 1942. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 13:17:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:31:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <581be9633132cc35b6eb264b21641498@www.antiochians.org> Heh. Even without fulfilling Godwin's law, the power dynamics loaded into the term are rather telling. Zucker (and the BOT) have a plan, and we're allowed to work with them towards achieving that plan. If not, well, they have no time for us. This is nothing new, of course, but I find their use of this somewhat loaded term fascinating. >what is even more interesting than what happened with collaboraters in 1942 >is what happened with them in 1945 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 13:25:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:38:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <974406.82281.qm@web53411.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9d030d5338997cdf7d4b225eac23e704@www.antiochians.org> >Ja -- achtung, alumni! Vee haff vays off making you talk! > >Okay, game over. We've totally violated Godwin's Rule. > >>Collaborate like Europe 1942. [img]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r166/tangentninja/Art-Zuckerfuher.gif[/img] From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 13:39:33 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:52:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <9d030d5338997cdf7d4b225eac23e704@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Matt - Godwin's Law states that the probability of Nazi comparisons increases with the length of any internet conversation, and attaches no value judgment. So we're fulfilling, not violating. It's various corollaries which consider the mention to be a bad thing. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 13:45:49 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 13:59:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <9d030d5338997cdf7d4b225eac23e704@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: [img]http://tinypic.com/alj2hl.jpg[/img] From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 13:55:11 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:08:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker Message-ID: <901375.32911.qm@web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I stand corrected regarding Godwin's Law. And yes, I agree that the Board's message is: Give in. We have absolute power over Antioch and you have nothing, so you can go along with us or go fuck yourselves. And I strongly disagree with that message. If the Board blows off alums, they destroy the university. They need us, and on some level, I think they know that. They just can't come to terms with the fact that they're going to have to listen to us and accede to our demands if they want our active participation in the university going forward. But of course, if it comes to that and they destroy the whole university system, I guess they can always console themselves by shrugging sadly and blaming it on toxic alums or something. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 14:04:53 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:18:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <901375.32911.qm@web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm gonna have to go ahead an disagree with you here Matt... I think the board is scambling to control the situtation because they have no fucking idea what they are going to do. Think about the progression of events for a moment: 1) They say "OUR DESCISION IS FINAL!!!" 2) We find the Bond document and read it and find things they forgot 3) They become aware of this and ask to "colloborate" 4) We make a bunch of demands 5) They say nothing. Why is this? Because they dont have a plan to deal with the new reality of the situation or a real bargining position.... They are in retreat. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: Matthew Arnold >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: Alumni Chat List >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker >Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:55:11 -0700 (PDT) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc12-f10.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, >8 Aug 2007 10:55:16 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F01D60ED68F;Wed, 8 Aug 2007 14:08:35 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com >(web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com[206.190.37.54])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) >with SMTP id 5746A60ED670for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 >14:08:32 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (qmail 32953 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Aug 2007 17:55:11 -0000 >Received: from [12.40.237.67] by web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP;Wed, >08 Aug 2007 10:55:11 PDT >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >GSH7qyRyHSrl2KOIAGJPT/Vr4EdYhwxAhdQZwzby9RVFD4PlYId/GNggoSGUtMoHUTYdIQNNs8WtNVsD55J4Yw== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; >d=yahoo.com;h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID;b=P+RqFqCuy/otzirjF3q2Mby5ISehYo7YBBhfKpyiRcKXmwHRAuTYttWwLpwB0bVx3USED5TTbCLtQRFHVPPz8CjWK9iOr0FmdulhFgKmA0z4CvW5MwuqLV+YFROU9xtmMJfQtY61zBNmwDKlfo0g58vKTslrlB0XaIdh8xPljGo=; >X-YMail-OSG: >haM4qh0VM1nJnQ79MJK_Lk7bb.xM2ShKZweTLQKF87UJ8fT2a.f4h0KyDFDiXK_DUSdf9kGwNg1EjuqoRYKVNqIXCGY5KCM28QhGqHiEc5Hi4CB7nOdQHUfNuiZb >X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/651.41 YahooMailWebService/0.7.119 >X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2007 17:55:16.0696 (UTC) >FILETIME=[4719CD80:01C7D9E5] > >I stand corrected regarding Godwin's Law. And yes, I agree that the Board's >message is: Give in. We have absolute power over Antioch and you have >nothing, so you can go along with us or go fuck yourselves. > >And I strongly disagree with that message. If the Board blows off alums, >they destroy the university. They need us, and on some level, I think they >know that. They just can't come to terms with the fact that they're going >to have to listen to us and accede to our demands if they want our active >participation in the university going forward. > >But of course, if it comes to that and they destroy the whole university >system, I guess they can always console themselves by shrugging sadly and >blaming it on toxic alums or something. > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Need a vacation? Get great deals >to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >http://travel.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001 From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 8 14:22:02 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:35:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <901375.32911.qm@web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <901375.32911.qm@web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It will all come down to a combination of money and power....and building trust. Getting anywhere is going to take a lot of benjamins.....as they say in Dayton. It's all about the Benjamins. If someone walked in with an eight digit check.....some eyes and ears would immediately open. Long term......whatever institution building happens has to build trust along the way. Good luck to all of us who care...... The BOT needs to re-invent itself before it reinvents us. It's sorta like I told Dan Kaplan at a reunion event several years ago........I was teasing but also serious.. "Hey, I'm jealous! You've been seeing other campuses" Duffy Thankful for the collective help and the Benjamins.... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 14:24:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:37:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8718f5e948a1f7f01dbbc0dde1770b9d@antiochians.org> Sorry to crow, but I fufilled Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies when I posted the post titled "In Which the Author Plays the Shoah Card" I believe I was responding to Thelma about something. Shoah being a short for Ha-Shoah which is of course Hebrew for the Holocaust. I was the ISMS Department Slave one quarter and ran the projector for all nine and half hours of Claude Lanzmann's Shoa for Frank Adler's The Holocaust class. Which BTW ended in one of the worst narrative evaluations I ever received including terms like "infintile", "snide", etc. Still, if you have any questions about the cost structure of the Deutsche Reichsbahn's billing to the Schutzstaffel-Totenkopfverbande for transportation, just ask. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 14:30:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:44:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth In-Reply-To: <62b9dfe0311fa9fb12257e12ced8dcb2@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <7c039b4f722c842f31bccfbfcd95e38d@antiochians.org> >"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell > >Please take note that I will not be using my work e-mail address for any further correspondence to this list or for sending or receiving e-mails to anyone with an antioch e-mail address as my firm has kindly asked me to refrain from doing so from my work computer and I am more than willing to comply with their request. > >I have no way of knowing if, in an attempt to silence or intimidate me, someone from this list reported me to my firm. If, however, some from this list did, in fact, do so, your attempt to have me fired failed. > >I would also like to address another issue. Bob Devine has threatened to sue me for libel (off-list) for some comments I made some time ago on this chat. I would like to remind everyone that truth is a defense for libel. I have not made any false statements on this chat and any questions I have posed are questions I am/was seeking answers to. I refuse to be intimidated by threats of any kind or silenced by anyone. I'm sure any graduate of Antioch or any thinking person can understand my strong feelings on this issue. > >Thank you. > >Debra Goodman (graduate of the class of 1983) > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! Deb, I am sorry that this issue has reached your workplace and restricted your freedom to participate. If someone torpedoed you I am very sorry and that person is an asshole regardless of their position on Antioch. On the other hand it could be possible that your system administrator noticed a lot of log time to the forum or that you received so many through the forum e-mails that they were detected as spam etc. Not knowing the context or content of your comments or Bob Devine's I can not say anything about the libel issue except that everyone should allow a wider degree of latitude during times of emotional duress and political turmoil such as the closing of Antioch College. Again, my apologies that your private life has been thrust into your public life. Sincerely, Travis From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 14:33:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:46:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] common bloody decency In-Reply-To: <5a62461348b00c871768f08af67250fd@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >I don't care if you hate the guts of someone online, if you think they are the axe murderer chopping up little antioch babies.... > >You DONT report them to their workplace. > >That's out of line. > >Robin '91 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! Come on an axe murderer chopping up little Antioch babies? Surely the ethics of cyberspace allow for stopping axe weilding baby killers by any means neccesary. And in fufillment of Godwin's Rule, what about Nazi's? From aadole at adelphia.net Wed Aug 8 17:41:53 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:54:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Yellow Springs taxes Message-ID: For your information. Art Dole From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 14:43:19 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Alicson (alicson@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 14:56:38 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] common bloody decency In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I didn't know what thread this was in reference to. Found it: subject: *Honesty and Truth* http://antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=28506#p28506 From pas0705 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 8 14:57:26 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Wed Aug 8 15:10:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91052.86639.qm@web63905.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Yes- I noticed today the letter had been posted on antioch college's website. Unremarkable, since it seemed to be a rehashing of what was already put on the website last week. -l ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Aug 8 15:02:48 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 8 15:16:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/2007 9:15:23 A.M. Central Daylight Time, howardh0336@comcast.net writes: I will never forget my conversations with Everett Wilson, the Chairman of the Sociology/Anthropology Dept. in 1965-66. He fought against the changes and lost. He quit in 1966 and moved to Ann Arbor. I had dinner with him there and he was full of disappointment. He had been at Antioch for more than a decade. He had written a text book. He just could not stay there with the changes away from a rigorous academic program. Ev Wilson was also an Antioch Grad -- His class, the class of 1939, had its 50th reunion while I was serving on the Alumni Board, and by that point Ev had a tenured position at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and was looking ahead to retirement. It was the loss in the mid 1960's of many faculty such as Ev who had a huge investment in Antioch, that had a profound impact on decisions made in subsequent decades that led to the current intellectual and financial bankruptcy. As I have posted here many times, Ev felt strongly enough about it all to write a 900 page detailed manuscript about the many faceted reasons why Antioch was going down and under (along with co-author Joan Yalman), and to publish a condensed version of it in, I believe, Social Forces. I find it interesting that in the discussion of Science at Antioch, no one mentions that the Professional Societies that accredit undergraduate and graduate academic programs, decertified Antioch in 1985 after some years of flagging the Antioch Science Program sprimarily because of under investment in lab equipment, Failure to keep Library Holdings in Science publications up to date, and lack of adequate Faculty for an undergraduate program. After a period of warning, and the failure to fix designated problems, Antioch lost Science accreditation. Any effort to understand why this happened, and the impact on recruitment of students et, al., needs to be part of the conversation. Why were not identified problems addressed? That's part of what went wrong? and the assumptions behind decisions about this are very much part of the needed honest history. I think it is very fake to call something Liberal Arts if you don't have an accredited Science Program. You can spin it all you want but there it is. And no Historians -- no History??? Along with Science, an essential of a Liberal Arts program. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 15:24:41 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 15:38:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] United States Air Force Joins the Looting In-Reply-To: <35cc0ac5a73f02902bb375debbd2bd63@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Please note that Dave Boyer works for General Dynamics and is seeking to build and office building next door the the new McGregor facility. Barbara Danely sits on the Board of the Dayton Developement Corporation which hands out BRAC (Base Relocation and Closure Commission) money. > >What is the Connection? > >----G > > >*Chamber Member Meeting* > >August 9th at 9 am >Bryan Center A&B > >special presentation on BRAC and other developments at WPAFB by Dave Boyer & Capt. Anita Skipper > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! Antioch-edu on her profile she also says she is a member of the Dayton Chamber of Commerce Chair of the Economic Development COmmittee. IPOF the list of teh BoD of the Dayton Chamber does not list her. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 15:35:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 15:49:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] United States Air Force Joins the Looting In-Reply-To: <35cc0ac5a73f02902bb375debbd2bd63@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <972e7cb5fb77dc84fd2ac5e3e163175d@antiochians.org> >Please note that Dave Boyer works for General Dynamics and is seeking to build and office building next door the the new McGregor facility. Barbara Danely sits on the Board of the Dayton Developement Corporation which hands out BRAC (Base Relocation and Closure Commission) money. > >What is the Connection? > >----G > > >*Chamber Member Meeting* > >August 9th at 9 am >Bryan Center A&B > >special presentation on BRAC and other developments at WPAFB by Dave Boyer & Capt. Anita Skipper > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! "Gellman-Danley expects the ideas to keep coming. So she's created what's called Nordstrom's Days, where every quarter she and van full of faculty will go to Nordstrom's and observe the way they handle customer service." DBJ March 2, 2000 How nice. From matt at baya.net Wed Aug 8 15:42:07 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Wed Aug 8 15:50:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2007, at 3:02 PM, Sistersara@aol.com wrote: > I find it interesting that in the discussion of Science at Antioch, > no one > mentions that the Professional Societies that accredit > undergraduate and > graduate academic programs, decertified Antioch in 1985 after some > years of > flagging the Antioch Science Program sprimarily because of under > investment in lab > equipment, Failure to keep Library Holdings in Science > publications up to > date, and lack of adequate Faculty for an undergraduate program. > After a > period of warning, and the failure to fix designated problems, > Antioch lost > Science accreditation. I never heard this, though if true that's not surprising that Antioch didn't advertise this to current students. However I know a number of fellow science students that got into the grad schools of their choice without any problems so I'm not sure what affect this lack of accreditation had exactly. Sara can you cite some sources and specifics here? Certainly working getting things re-accredited down the road is a good goal Thanks -Matt '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 15:45:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 15:59:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] United States Air Force Joins the Looting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Please note that Dave Boyer works for General Dynamics and is seeking to build and office building next door the the new McGregor facility. Barbara Danely sits on the Board of the Dayton Developement Corporation which hands out BRAC (Base Relocation and Closure Commission) money. >> >>What is the Connection? >> >>----G >> >> >>*Chamber Member Meeting* >> >>August 9th at 9 am >>Bryan Center A&B >> >>special presentation on BRAC and other developments at WPAFB by Dave Boyer & Capt. Anita Skipper >Antioch-edu on her profile she also says she is a member of the Dayton Chamber of Commerce Chair of the Economic Development COmmittee. IPOF the list of teh BoD of the Dayton Chamber does not list her. "BGD said she wants to mover her Yellow Springs college, which ahs about 700 students, to another facility somewhere in the Dayton area. The college is considering constructing a new building or renovating and existing one. New construction could cost $5MM to $7MM while buying or leasing an existing facility would cot much less" BJR 8/15/2003 Or a new building could cost $10MM and no other options might be considered. "The funding for the project would come from tuition fees, but Gellman-Danley is hoping businesses will help as well. She plans to offer naming rights to rooms or buildings in exchange for donations." BJR 5/18/03 Oh good General Dynamics Center for Conflict Resolution Through the Use of Superior Fire-Power Food Court.! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 15:47:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:00:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Yellow Springs taxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <99276ccb1f20ca699139fc64e4e697ca@antiochians.org> >For your information. Art Dole ...Art I think you forgot a link... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 15:58:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:12:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College DIscussion Forum Purges Message-ID: The Antioch College Discussion Forum Community [sic] Community Internet Forum appears to have been purged og all forums except the Alumni Chapter Events Forum. Searches reveal no posts on other topics!!! That was fast. From dawn at mediawonk.com Wed Aug 8 16:02:19 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:15:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Letter from the BOT Message-ID: Rowan said... ..." Zucker (and the BOT) have a plan, and we're allowed to work with them towards achieving that plan. If not, well, they have no time for us. " What I find fascinating is they found my mailing address NOW! No one wrote me asking for anything for the last several years. 'Collaborate' my posterior! The good news is, we've gotten their attention sufficient for them to at least feign including us. We need to keep the pressure up! In Solidarity, Dawn From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 16:04:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:17:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College DIscussion Forum Purges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3c9b7e162ff5483096ac76df949a35ad@antiochians.org> >The Antioch College Discussion Forum Community [sic] Community Internet Forum appears to have been purged og all forums except the Alumni Chapter Events Forum. Searches reveal no posts on other topics!!! > >That was fast. One wonders what question made them say, "OK enough of this..." and whether they're going to cite it as proof of our "toxicity." From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 16:09:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:23:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College DIscussion Forum Purges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <79bf2033cf1054b41609c26654c99522@antiochians.org> >The Antioch College Discussion Forum Community [sic] Community Internet Forum appears to have been purged og all forums except the Alumni Chapter Events Forum. Searches reveal no posts on other topics!!! > >That was fast. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda#Herman_and_Chomsky.27s_propaganda_model >Herman and Chomsky's propaganda model > >The propaganda model is a theory advanced by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky that alleges systemic biases in the mass media and seeks to explain them in terms of structural economic causes. > > "The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy."[4][5] > >First presented in their 1988 book Manufacturing Consent: the Political Economy of the Mass Media, the propaganda model views the private media as businesses selling a product ? readers and audiences (rather than news) ? to other businesses (advertisers). The theory postulates five general classes of "filters" that determine the type of news that is presented in news media: Ownership of the medium; Medium's funding sources; Sourcing; Flak; and Anti-communist ideology > >The first three (ownership, funding, and sourcing) are generally regarded by the authors as being the most important. Although the model was based mainly on the characterization of United States media, Chomsky and Herman believe the theory is equally applicable to any country that shares the basic economic structure and organizing principles which the model postulates as the cause of media biases. After the disintegration of the Soviet Union, Chomsky stated that the new filter replacing communism would be terrorism and Islam.[6] From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 16:17:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:30:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College DIscussion Forum Purges In-Reply-To: <79bf2033cf1054b41609c26654c99522@antiochians.org> Message-ID: I found it to be fairly civil (mostly empty) and well within their use policy. Unless of course asking questions or challenging authority is against that policy. I really hope this is a technical snafu and not another example of how lame they are. I know abilist discrimination in the use of the word lame. So, so, sorry. Hey gare I am sure you are lurking about, mind telling us what happened to the forums? Also, it is rude to be registered as on-line but not to respond whem messaged. And whats up with that friends and foes function? I mean sure reading my foes can be a drag but it is amusing, if I had a foe function and listed them I'd never get to wallow about. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 16:25:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:38:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College DIscussion Forum Purges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I found it to be fairly civil (mostly empty) and well within their use policy. Unless of course asking questions or challenging authority is against that policy. > >I really hope this is a technical snafu and not another example of how lame they are. > >I know abilist discrimination in the use of the word lame. So, so, sorry. > >Hey gare I am sure you are lurking about, mind telling us what happened to the forums? >Also, it is rude to be registered as on-line but not to respond whem messaged. And whats up with that friends and foes function? I mean sure reading my foes can be a drag but it is amusing, if I had a foe function and listed them I'd never get to wallow about. perhaps we should just start over with questions on their forum again Starting with the questions you just asked From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 16:29:19 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:42:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] United States Air Force Joins the Looting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <32f689a427a90f3007a09844b2cc5438@www.antiochians.org> >>>Please note that Dave Boyer works for General Dynamics and is seeking to build and office building next door the the new McGregor facility. Barbara Danely sits on the Board of the Dayton Developement Corporation which hands out BRAC (Base Relocation and Closure Commission) money. >>> >>>What is the Connection? >>> >>>----G >>> >>> >>>*Chamber Member Meeting* >>> >>>August 9th at 9 am >>>Bryan Center A&B >>> >>>special presentation on BRAC and other developments at WPAFB by Dave Boyer & Capt. Anita Skipper >>Antioch-edu on her profile she also says she is a member of the Dayton Chamber of Commerce Chair of the Economic Development COmmittee. IPOF the list of teh BoD of the Dayton Chamber does not list her. >"BGD said she wants to mover her Yellow Springs college, which ahs about 700 students, to another facility somewhere in the Dayton area. The college is considering constructing a new building or renovating and existing one. New construction could cost $5MM to $7MM while buying or leasing an existing facility would cot much less" BJR 8/15/2003 > >Or a new building could cost $10MM and no other options might be considered. > >"The funding for the project would come from tuition fees, but Gellman-Danley is hoping businesses will help as well. She plans to offer naming rights to rooms or buildings in exchange for donations." BJR 5/18/03 > >Oh good General Dynamics Center for Conflict Resolution Through the Use of Superior Fire-Power Food Court.! This Woman must be stopped. And her hair stylist must be stopped as well. From matt at baya.net Wed Aug 8 16:46:22 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Wed Aug 8 16:54:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College DIscussion Forum Purges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E46AA8D-0D43-4272-8681-D9B920E99148@baya.net> First off, http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/askaquestion.html which includes: Ask Your Questions to Chancellor Murdock and Board Chair Art Zucker * Post Your Question Here (dead link to forums) * OR email collegenews@antioch-college.edu , subject "Ask a Question" I am trying to find out if the whole forum got nuked or if the questions that were posted, which were more civil and 'honest and respectful' got passed on to the appropriate bodies. I will say, for the record, that the other anonymous and nasty posts were NOT honest and respectful and I'm not that surprised the forum got nuked. If I were the forum admin there I would have been deleting them myself. I also want to state that as someone who has worked with Gare over the past year or two, he doesn't deserve this crap, or any shit from us. He may work for the University but he's done wonders with the college website, especially considering he's only 1/4 time for the college. On the list of friends and foes, Gare is a friend, at least in my book. Play nice folks. -Matt '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 17:12:33 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 17:25:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0701cb006599785e1e3bfea4de9955e7@antiochians.org> All campuses of the University are currently listed as Accredited with by the HLC for the NCACS. That and the OBOR are the only ones that matter. If what Sara says is true it has done nothing to impact the admission of our students to medical school, graduate school or other professions that have extensive science requirements. I admit to general ingorance about accreditation but I always thought that only colleges or Universities woth graduate degrees and professional schools had their programs vetted by specific Proffesional Societies. Also on the general state of accreditation in America see http://www.goacta.org/publications/Reports/Accreditation2007Final.pdf It includes a *nice* quote by our own Alan Guskin: "It is these [accreditor] definitions of quality that have led to... the proliferation of disciplinary programs based on the interests of faculty members and to the significant increase in expenses for student support services. We are so wedded to a definition of quality based on resources that we find it extremely difficult to deal with the results of our work, namely student learning." From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 17:18:45 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 17:32:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College DIscussion Forum Purges In-Reply-To: <9E46AA8D-0D43-4272-8681-D9B920E99148@baya.net> Message-ID: <5c7f7eeda54400f29e78b827bacf2058@antiochians.org> >First off, http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/askaquestion.html > >which includes: > >Ask Your Questions to Chancellor Murdock and Board Chair Art Zucker > >* Post Your Question Here (dead link to forums) >* OR email collegenews@antioch-college.edu , subject "Ask a >Question" > >I am trying to find out if the whole forum got nuked or if the >questions that were posted, which were more civil and 'honest and >respectful' got passed on to the appropriate bodies. > >I will say, for the record, that the other anonymous and nasty posts >were NOT honest and respectful and I'm not that surprised the forum >got nuked. If I were the forum admin there I would have been deleting >them myself. > >I also want to state that as someone who has worked with Gare over >the past year or two, he doesn't deserve this crap, or any shit from >us. He may work for the University but he's done wonders with the >college website, especially considering he's only 1/4 time for the >college. On the list of friends and foes, Gare is a friend, at least >in my book. Play nice folks. > >-Matt '92 I am playing nice. I thought it rude that he was on the forum but did not respond. Maybe he has by now. There were other forums beside that one, were there not? And id you take something down don't you normally tell the community why? Also is it the case that sarcasm is considered disrespectful? Is use of irony disresecptful? Is the definition of respectful based on how if the recipient can tell the difference between straight prose and that which is sarcastic to be ironic or ironic to be sarcastic? I did not see anything that violated their use policy. From imabused at aol.com Wed Aug 8 18:16:10 2007 From: imabused at aol.com (imabused@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 8 18:29:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker Message-ID: <8C9A820DC177E98-AD8-9742@WEBMAIL-MA09.sysops.aol.com> I never knew much about how Antioch was operated when I attended (1975-1979). It is, however, astonishing to realize that the Board of Trustees operates in such a closed system. I suppose I had thought that meetings would be announced and open to all stakeholders. So now that again my dumb Pollyanna ideas have been shot to hell, I am just left to wonder about the scrambling that is going on. Okay, just imagine having participated in the final (planned) meeting which culminated in a (planned) decision to claim Antioch College, in isolation, financially destitute. First there is the glee which was described on this site by our own star of the Antioch Adventure. All of the BOT were high-fiving it and imagining their lucrative futures in the world of high profit academia. Profit is the goal, right? We did it!! Then... the eery and steadily increasing news of unrest. The Reunion which turned into Activist Central. Attendees? Trained activists! The media attention, the successful fundraising, the town of Yellow Springs becoming vocal about the decision. Then... the websites which inspired some research into the history and workings of the BOT, the legal violations, and the phony claims made. Things were getting ugly for each of the BOT. There was going to be some personal accountability. Some consequences in different realms. So now, one just imagines that there are many attorneys being assembled. That is a given. There is a lot of potential for lawsuits being filed. There are a lot of phone calls, conference calls, and in-person meetings possibly. There are going to be differences of opinion in which way to go. Some will want to "stay the course"... some will want to regroup... some will want to reverse the decision... It's a shame the process is closed. A more public process would have been so much more healthy and this idiotic decision never would have happened in the first place. They sent a letter to my house. It was not to me, so I had to give it back to the Postal Service. It was addressed to a different Antioch College grad, who has not lived in my town for exactly 15 years. I did not get a letter. The BOT is incompetent. I believe they will put up a pretense of wanting to "work with" those wanting to keep the school alive, and therefore this will waste valuable time. There is a parallel in politics with the Bush administration here... Please let us not be fooled by their request for collaboration. Legal is the way to go. Jane Slater Class of '80 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From theodora at imbris.com Wed Aug 8 18:42:31 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Wed Aug 8 18:52:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Mental Health issues Message-ID: Bob, thanks for sharing the note about the mental health issues of students at Antioch and elsewhere. College is a difficult time for students regardless of where they are, and what you shared brought some needed perspective. Pam From theodora at imbris.com Wed Aug 8 18:48:32 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Wed Aug 8 18:58:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Us and Them Message-ID: Folks, i wish I knew more about what's bugging the BoT. But, whatever the case, it might just be that everyone is going to have to work together to save the college. I would hate to see any wars get in the way of that. Pointing fingers probalby isn't going to help. I suspect that some people on each "side", if you will, have made mistakes and "missed the mark." And if we get too caught up in blame, rather than assessing where we are now and what we can do about it, then I fear repercussions like those that occured as a result of the strike in the 70s. I'm sure the folks who went to strike had valid points, most people do. But were they worth what happened? And did their approach get them what they wanted? Making demands typically just alienates and makes things worse. Why don't we try genuinely listening to the BoT and see what their thinking is, and then see if they will also listen to alumni and current faculty and students. We are all a community...or should be. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 18:49:34 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 19:02:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth In-Reply-To: <7c039b4f722c842f31bccfbfcd95e38d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Thanks, Travis. You're sweet. Deb >Deb, > >I am sorry that this issue has reached your workplace and restricted your freedom to participate. If someone torpedoed you I am very sorry and that person is an asshole regardless of their position on Antioch. On the other hand it could be possible that your system administrator noticed a lot of log time to the forum or that you received so many through the forum e-mails that they were detected as spam etc. > >Not knowing the context or content of your comments or Bob Devine's I can not say anything about the libel issue except that everyone should allow a wider degree of latitude during times of emotional duress and political turmoil such as the closing of Antioch College. > >Again, my apologies that your private life has been thrust into your public life. > >Sincerely, > >Travis From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 19:11:27 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 19:24:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Us and Them In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <68f2793e5bdb858ff1279fa93ad51124@www.antiochians.org> >Folks, i wish I knew more about what's bugging the BoT. > >But, whatever the case, it might just be that everyone is going to have to >work together to save the college. I would hate to see any wars get in the >way of that. Pointing fingers probalby isn't going to help. I suspect that >some people on each "side", if you will, have made mistakes and "missed the >mark." And if we get too caught up in blame, rather than assessing where we >are now and what we can do about it, then I fear repercussions like those >that occured as a result of the strike in the 70s. I'm sure the folks who >went to strike had valid points, most people do. But were they worth what >happened? And did their approach get them what they wanted? Making demands >typically just alienates and makes things worse. > >Why don't we try genuinely listening to the BoT and see what their thinking >is, and then see if they will also listen to alumni and current faculty and >students. We are all a community...or should be. Well Pam... I know you are a little late to the debate, so I'm going to ask you to go over some of the back story. You see, the we dont want to "genuinely listen" to the BoT because they have done nothing but Lie. They have yet to utter a single truthful statement and many of the things that they have said have been proven false. They have sent people onto this site to confuse the issues and spread disinformation. They closed the college on purpose through deliberate finnacial manipulation. Many of them have proven ties to the national security apparatus. The only point fo the closure is to break tenure, purge the students and faculty, and lay off the union staff. The Alumni Board is correct in veiwing this as a hostile takeover. I'm hoping, in all honesty, that you are just asking these questions and not another person sent in here to distract us from our work. From theodora at imbris.com Wed Aug 8 19:57:31 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Wed Aug 8 20:07:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Ed Wilson and grades Message-ID: I was a sociology/anthropology major. And I am sure Ed Wilson was a great guy and excellent professor. I remember him talking to me about being from Utah when I first got there and complimenting me for wanting to think instead of be safe (in Utah they didn't teach a lot of thinking). I would love to read the document that he wrote about Antioch and it's decline. That being said, when I graduated with a major in soc-anthro, my GRE scores were higher in science than they were in sociology. Much higher. Like, in the high 90s, vs. the mid-50s, or something. And I had only two or three science courses. What i concluded from that was that I learned more in Girl Scouts than I did academically at Antioch, at least in sociology. When I graduated, I hated books so much that I couldn't even look at them to put them on my bookshelf when I moved. I just shoved them on in no particular order and didn't pick up a book for six months. Months later, I was browsing in the bookstore and picked up Carl Rogers' book "On Becoming a Person." I cracked it open, read a few passages, and was blown away. Being in therapy at the time, I could not believe that people wrote about some of the things i was going through. i bought the book, vowing to myself that never again was anyone going to tell me what to get out of a book. I promised myself I would read it upside down and backwards, two pages at a sitting, if i wanted to! GRadually, I learned to enjoy books again. That's not because Ed and the others weren't very knowledgable people. It's because Antioch's philosophy of reportedly letting everyone work at their own pace meant lickety-split or faster. It didn't mean allowing folks like me to get filled in on the basics before they jumped into advanced work. EVery book I read changes my life (I'm still kinda that way.) I couldn't change my life three times a week, and with essentially no guidance. For me, and I'm sure for many students, it would have been more helpful and instructive to let me start where I was and move forward. Or to have had more guidance in learning how to think. Most Antiochians were from eastern "prep schools." They read in high school books I'd never heard of. They were way ahead of me. I was at the top of my high school class in Utah, or close to it. I'm not a dummy. I just hadn't had the exposure). All of which is to say, there is a place for independent study, designing one's own learning path, and having different approaches to evaluation than grades. Not all students can fit into traditional educational models. As I recall, when grades where stopped, it was initially only in the Inner College, which was a small group of students in a particular dorm trying to redefine a few things for themselves. Although I wasn't officially in the Inner College, I was dating someone who was, and so I sat in on most of the discussions. I recall that students could have it either way: a grade if they wanted one, or an evaluation. Personally, I celebrated this development and wished it could have happened sooner (it happened in '67-68, as I recall (well, possibly 66-67), and then for only a portion of the students, so I'm not sure how it led to Ed's leaving). It was too late for me. I had also wanted to combine a major in education and anthropology, and was told, "If you don't like our program, go somewhere else." And then, just as I graduated, they allowed students to define their own majors. It seems to be my lot in life. A single payor in health care will come down the pike someday, too. About the time I die. I eventually overcame my aversion to books, and of course in grad school I had to succumb to being told what to get out of a book, in a sense. But honestly, I don't think I ever really learned to think until I went to Duquesne. We didn't read a book a week for each course there, we read one, maybe two, by the same author, during the whole course, and went through it sentence by sentence, practically, in class, with the professor, and compared that thinker then and there to others. Duquesne was attempting to create a new psychology, so they were all learning how to think through things differently than traditional psychology. After doing this a few times, of course, we learned to do it ourselves, and that's the whole point. Giving students the tools to go forth independently. We had papers at Duquesne, one each semester for each course, not two, as at Antioch, and we had almost no exams (they had gleaned, correctly, I think, that exams are generally useless, resulting in cramming and little true learning). I mean, grad school was easier than Antioch,in terms of the amount of work, and yet, I learned more there about how to think. The problem as I saw it when I was at Antioch was that there were no basic courses. Every course was an experimental or advanced course, so there was no sense of developing a fund of knowledge in a field. When I took "Theories of Athropology," I thought, finally, a basic reading course so I can get some background. But Ayoub decided to do an experiment and have each of us take a single theorist and present to the class what that person had to say that was a unique contribution to the field. Well, how the heck should I know, if I don't know what everyone else said! I intentially picked the first theorist in order by years (and interestingly, I don't have a clue now who it was)....but it was still very difficult. And apparently, it was difficult for everyone, because Ayoub was upset around the middle of the quarter that no one seemed to be getting their work done and he thought we were not working. We finally got through to him that what he was asking was no small task, even for the students who were more sophisticated in the field than I was. I guess my point is, Howard, that everything has it's context, and everyone has their point of view, and students have different kinds of needs. The JOBS at Antioch were fabulous and helped me find my true calling in life, the PLACE was wonderful, and there was much to learn outside of class in being a part of the COMMUNITY that has stayed with me for life. But that so-called rigorous academic program was not, from my point of view, consistent with what Antioch claimed to be doing in terms of letting each student work at their own pace and meet their own educational needs and goals, and it was not the best for teaching thinking. IMHO! Pam ('68) From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 20:23:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 8 20:37:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <8C9A820DC177E98-AD8-9742@WEBMAIL-MA09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Please let us not be fooled by their request for collaboration. Legal is the way to go. Jane Slater Class of '80 Jane, I agree. It seems to me that the request for collaboration is a photo-op, designed to say, "We're now working with stakeholders, have moved beyond the closing to begin visioning the future." The faculty is intent on seeking legal avenues to stop the closing and to protect the College from further damage. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 20:31:48 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 20:45:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Please let us not be fooled by their request for collaboration. Legal is the way to go. > >Jane Slater >Class of '80 > > >Jane, > >I agree. It seems to me that the request for collaboration is a photo-op, designed to say, "We're now working with stakeholders, have moved beyond the closing to begin visioning the future." The faculty is intent on seeking legal avenues to stop the closing and to protect the College from further damage. > >Bob Bob, I'm gonna have to partially disagree with you on this one. Initially yes, it was a photo-op... total bullshit. As Dan would say I dont trust those people further than I can throw main building. I'd like to ask you however to entertain and discuss with me if you would the following: Considering: 1) We have been unwavering. 2) We are moving forward with our revitalization plan and the business plan is growing steadily closer to completion 3) The faculty is suing 4) The bond documents seem to state that they could loose the McGregor building 5) Their "PR" offensive is about as effective as the BEF was at the Somme 6) The King family might sue and they look not so nice over that disaster. Is it not possible that they are in a state of disunity and disarray and way be brought to the table in August under favorable terms despite the desires of Herr Zucker and Chancellor Murdock? I'm just saying that my shark-genes smell blood in the water and I think its thiers -----G From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 21:01:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 8 21:14:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9ee9547aa9b2c720be564c7fde697b7d@www.antiochians.org> Bob, I'm gonna have to partially disagree with you on this one. Initially yes, it was a photo-op... total bullshit. As Dan would say I dont trust those people further than I can throw main building. I'd like to ask you however to entertain and discuss with me if you would the following: Considering: 1) We have been unwavering. 2) We are moving forward with our revitalization plan and the business plan is growing steadily closer to completion 3) The faculty is suing 4) The bond documents seem to state that they could loose the McGregor building 5) Their "PR" offensive is about as effective as the BEF was at the Somme 6) The King family might sue and they look not so nice over that disaster. Is it not possible that they are in a state of disunity and disarray and way be brought to the table in August under favorable terms despite the desires of Herr Zucker and Chancellor Murdock? I'm just saying that my shark-genes smell blood in the water and I think its thiers Gerry, I'm not sure of your shark genes, but could be persuaded. It's clear that the University is floundering and doesn't know what they are doing. The public mistakes attest to this. But this PR strategy seems to me to be the life raft: Move off the closing, show that you can engage with the "lunatic fringe" that opposes the closing, and move on to visioning the future. The desperation, I suspect, is that the protracted bad press is hurting University enrollments. I suppose that the proof will be in the pudding -- who is best able to "spin" the meetings in Cincinnati -- but I'm not sure that anyone will be heard in Cincinnati. We've been told that the decision to close the College is irreversible. My money is on the public session being a repeat of the Reunion session, and the closed session being the reading of statements by various invited constituencies. Do you have the latest version of the business plan that you might share with me? Bob From kokeefe at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 8 21:26:55 2007 From: kokeefe at antioch-college.edu (Kelly O'Keefe) Date: Wed Aug 8 21:40:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] 11 Reasons Message-ID: Hello Everyone! For those just tuning in, I have wonderfully amazing items for sale, which directly benefit the movement to save our college in several ways! The Antioch Adventure DVD $25 The Antioch Adventure 2 DVD $25 Homemade Antioch Buttons $2 I made the buttons myself, each one unique and colorful. Email me for more information and ordering. Here's 11 reasons why they help: 1. The donations go to either the Antioch Alumni Association College Revival Fund or the Faculty Legal Fund, at your discretion. 2. The buttons are fall couture fashionwear, and it shows those who see you wearing it that you support Antioch. It can raise awareness and curiosity. 3. You may run into an Antiochian on the street who spies your button, wherever you are, and you can say "hi." Fun! 4. 80 buttons can be an armor suit. 5. It's a memento of where you're from, that you can keep for keeps. 6. The Antioch Adventure never gets old, and perhaps you'd like to do a fundraiser showing it, like I did. 7. Purchasing items from a current student is very encouraging to them, and shows that you support them. (me) 8. It's a good way to help the movement from your living room. 9. Singing along with the movies will make you happy, laughing at them will exercise you, and the teeny tear at the end will remind you what the legacy of Antioch really is. 10. Both movies have a zillion people in them, so you can pause the movie and make fun of your friends who were in it. 10. When we do win our college back, you can shine your button and feel proud. I'm co-oping right now, in the Olive Kettering Library on campus, and I've really been in the thick of the tornado this term. Through all of the ups and downs of the past few months, I have hope. I love my college, and I'm working my hardest to keep it for students like you and me, 20, 50 and 70 years from now. (2 closings) In Solidarity, Sock it to 'em, Kelly O'Keefe '08 kokeefe@antioch-college.edu From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Aug 8 21:36:35 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 8 21:50:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:37:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, matt@baya.net writes: I never heard this, though if true that's not surprising that Antioch didn't advertise this to current students. However I know a number of fellow science students that got into the grad schools of their choice without any problems so I'm not sure what affect this lack of accreditation had exactly. Sara can you cite some sources and specifics here? Certainly working getting things re-accredited down the road is a good goal Thanks -Matt '92 Matt, I tried to answer this earlier, but something went wacko with my mail program, so I gave it a nap. What you are asking is how I found out about the withdrawal of accreditation from Antioch's Science Programs, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, etc. Well, I found out about it from a classmate of mine, Stephen J. Gould. He, along with Joann Argetsinger were invited by Guskins to spend a week on the Antioch Campus during the first year of Guskin's presidency, (about 1987) to study the then existing science resources and then to help write a proposal to restore accredited science at Antioch. They worked with Development on it, and were successful in getting a grant of 2 million from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute. But much more would have been necessary to complete the proposed plan. But the proposal which went out with their names on it was very comprehensive and detailed. I talked to Stephen twice about the proposal, the general outline of the plan, but I am not certain in what order these conversations occurred. One was at Reunion where Stephen was given the Horace Mann Award, and another was when he was in Mpls delivering a lecture, and then did a book signing, and afterwards I took him out for dessert and coffee. Both of these were while I was serving on the Alumni Board, and thus when in YSO, and running into retired faculty, I used my Gould conversations as an opener to get people to reflect and talk. So in the end I had lots of sources -- and I talked with another Antiochian who knew Joann well, and she confirmed that Argetsinger saw things very much the same way. Yes, it makes a difference if the American Chemical Society decertifies your program, particularly if they had flagged it over several reviews, and provided a detailed list of things that needed fixing. 1985 was no surprise to the college, the problems had been building for a decade. They included lack of credentialed faculty, poor quality of lab space, equipment, lack of budget for supplies, non-current Library materials particularly major journals, and lack of appropriate support -- such as the minimalist Math Department that would be required to support Chemistry. Physics, Biology and Geology had the same fundamental problems. I sincerely believe Guskins tried to re-build, but it didn't happen, and after that you could not get a straight answer to a straight factual question. Gould was properly pissed about being used to get the first grants. He could not even get straight answers as to how money was being spent -- money he essentially raised, and used his professional reputation to vouch for in the grant process. He gave me names of mutual friends who had tried to assist, and had essentially the same experience -- they got used, and then burned. Retired professors in YSO told me the same thing, and that the kind of trust that builds these sorts of relationships was essentially in the gutter. Antioch's problem, in my mind, was that it puffed up a vast illusion about itself, and then fashioned PR around that, and through considerable coercion, managed to keep many people talking the same talking points over the years, to the point that some otherwise intelligent folk actually believed them, but many feared the consequences of being identified with anything off message. You saw that here today if the analysis is on target -- someone tried to do something nasty to someone's employment because a member of this list was a critic. You don't like the message, so you shoot the messenger. It is a nifty little power play that is all too common around Antioch in the last decade or so, and along with the dishonesty illustrated by how Gould was dealt with, it is anything but what Antioch Values should be -- and it stinketh. Moreover it does not rebuild Science Programs nor does it result in quality tenured teaching historians. So that's my evidence. Once I told people in YSO that I had talked with Gould about the project to rebuild Science, and what he thought of the effort to execute, I just collected more examples and evidence, with pleas not to attach names to anything I might say. Even today, I won't do that except for Gould, because as you know, he died in 2001. I served on the Alumni Board from 1988 till 1994, and much of that time I did collect observations of this sort, which in a naive way I thought might be the basis for advocacy for change. It was fairly hopeless. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 21:38:34 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 21:51:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] 11 Reasons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <05ae1afa63b95f9ab4e39a24457534f2@antiochians.org> Kelly you are awesome!!! Jane Slater Class of '80 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 22:00:57 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 22:14:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sistersara, I believe you are confusing accreditation with certification. The accreditation process generally happens through regional accrediting bodies (although the Spellings Commission is looking at ways of revising the current system). Organizations such as the ACS often certify certain programs, but the certification is a sort of bonus that recognizes good programs, as opposed to certification which implies maintaining minimum standards. Certainly being certified by all professional organizations is something that Antioch should shoot for, but not being certified doesn't mean that programs (or graduates) are subpar. Cheers, Skooter >In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:37:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >matt@baya.net writes: > >I never heard this, though if true that's not surprising that Antioch >didn't advertise this to current students. However I know a number of >fellow science students that got into the grad schools of their >choice without any problems so I'm not sure what affect this lack of >accreditation had exactly. > >Sara can you cite some sources and specifics here? Certainly working >getting things re-accredited down the road is a good goal > >Thanks > >-Matt '92 > > > >Matt, I tried to answer this earlier, but something went wacko with my mail >program, so I gave it a nap. > >What you are asking is how I found out about the withdrawal of accreditation >from Antioch's Science Programs, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, etc. >Well, I found out about it from a classmate of mine, Stephen J. Gould. He, >along with Joann Argetsinger were invited by Guskins to spend a week on the >Antioch Campus during the first year of Guskin's presidency, (about 1987) to >study the then existing science resources and then to help write a proposal to >restore accredited science at Antioch. They worked with Development on it, >and were successful in getting a grant of 2 million from the Howard Hughes >Medical Institute. But much more would have been necessary to complete the >proposed plan. But the proposal which went out with their names on it was very >comprehensive and detailed. > >I talked to Stephen twice about the proposal, the general outline of the >plan, but I am not certain in what order these conversations occurred. One was >at Reunion where Stephen was given the Horace Mann Award, and another was >when he was in Mpls delivering a lecture, and then did a book signing, and >afterwards I took him out for dessert and coffee. Both of these were while I was >serving on the Alumni Board, and thus when in YSO, and running into retired >faculty, I used my Gould conversations as an opener to get people to reflect >and talk. So in the end I had lots of sources -- and I talked with another >Antiochian who knew Joann well, and she confirmed that Argetsinger saw things >very much the same way. > >Yes, it makes a difference if the American Chemical Society decertifies your >program, particularly if they had flagged it over several reviews, and >provided a detailed list of things that needed fixing. 1985 was no surprise to >the college, the problems had been building for a decade. They included lack >of credentialed faculty, poor quality of lab space, equipment, lack of budget >for supplies, non-current Library materials particularly major journals, and >lack of appropriate support -- such as the minimalist Math Department that >would be required to support Chemistry. Physics, Biology and Geology had the >same fundamental problems. I sincerely believe Guskins tried to re-build, but >it didn't happen, and after that you could not get a straight answer to a >straight factual question. > >Gould was properly pissed about being used to get the first grants. He >could not even get straight answers as to how money was being spent -- money he >essentially raised, and used his professional reputation to vouch for in the >grant process. He gave me names of mutual friends who had tried to assist, >and had essentially the same experience -- they got used, and then burned. >Retired professors in YSO told me the same thing, and that the kind of trust >that builds these sorts of relationships was essentially in the gutter. > >Antioch's problem, in my mind, was that it puffed up a vast illusion about >itself, and then fashioned PR around that, and through considerable coercion, >managed to keep many people talking the same talking points over the years, to >the point that some otherwise intelligent folk actually believed them, but >many feared the consequences of being identified with anything off message. >You saw that here today if the analysis is on target -- someone tried to do >something nasty to someone's employment because a member of this list was a >critic. You don't like the message, so you shoot the messenger. It is a nifty >little power play that is all too common around Antioch in the last decade >or so, and along with the dishonesty illustrated by how Gould was dealt with, >it is anything but what Antioch Values should be -- and it stinketh. >Moreover it does not rebuild Science Programs nor does it result in quality tenured >teaching historians. > >So that's my evidence. Once I told people in YSO that I had talked with >Gould about the project to rebuild Science, and what he thought of the effort to >execute, I just collected more examples and evidence, with pleas not to >attach names to anything I might say. Even today, I won't do that except for >Gould, because as you know, he died in 2001. I served on the Alumni Board from >1988 till 1994, and much of that time I did collect observations of this >sort, which in a naive way I thought might be the basis for advocacy for change. >It was fairly hopeless. > > > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 22:19:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 22:32:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40d4bb08f2e23c469b661d0ed0a36d94@antiochians.org> Here is the text of the ACS explanation of its certification programs. Skooter ttp://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/s/1/general.html?DOC=education\cpt\whyapprove.html *Why Have an Approval and Certification Program?* For the student: A certified degree in chemistry is a valuable personal credential which serves as national-level recognition for successfully completing a rigorous academic chemistry curriculum in an ACS-approved department. In many college and university chemistry departments more than one path is offered for a chemistry, biochemistry or related major. The program that results in an ACS-certified degree invariably is the more demanding one. The extra rigor and additional requirements of the certified degree are valued by potential employers and graduate schools alike. Employers realize that graduates of approved programs have better preparation for technical employment. Some companies offer higher starting salaries to certified degree holders than to non-certified classmates. Although graduate school admissions committees are unlikely to consider overtly whether or not a graduate holds a certified degree, the admissions committees will be impressed by the stronger preparation required for a certified degree and by a student being a graduate of an approved department. An ACS-certified graduate is eligible for immediate membership in the ACS and thus is able to secure the benefits of membership which include helpful services such as finding employment. Over 600 chemistry programs in colleges and universities in the U.S.A. are ACS approved. Over 130 chemistry programs also offer degree options. About forty percent of the students graduating from these chemistry programs are ACS certified. Many departments seek ACS approval and advertise that they are approved to assure students that they have high-quality programs in chemistry. Some institutions use ACS approval of another institution as a basis for accepting transfer credits in chemistry. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 23:08:50 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 8 23:22:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <9ee9547aa9b2c720be564c7fde697b7d@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Do you have the latest version of the business plan that you might share >with me? > >Bob > Bob, I want to further discuss the situation vis-a-vi PR and Cinci both on and off the chat with you. I'll put that aside for a seperate email and or thread to answer your question about the business plan in public. First of all I dont have any documents in my possession to share with you or anyone else. Had I documents I that I could share I would. I will tell you what I know from informal dicussion with AB people and some of the experts (mostly alumni) that they have working on the plan. I'm dont feel comfortable saying that I'm at liberty to discuss who they are. I will say that they have earned my trust and respect and as you know me those things are not easy to get from me. Offline I could tell you more but not really much more. If you need details or want in depth conversation you have my number and a large alotment of my time. I dont know all the elements of the bussiness plan as it stands, and I'd like to start with the caveat that it is only a draft and an incomplete one at that. When people talk about plans that take years and tens of millions of dollars we cant expect to be done quickly. We are also laboring under the difficulty of not be able to get real numbers and actual facts from the university. Much of my work has been getting, confirming and vetting these facts, running down rumor and doing research. I'll say that I dont agree with all the elements that I've heard, and I havent heard all the elements, but I understand the point of view that we are working from and agree with it. I'll start with history: A little more than a month ago, myself and several of the toxic 90s crew (I'm sure the even the uninformed can guess which 7-10 it was) pulled and all-niter and drafted a "plan" that consisted of about 30 points and submitted it to the AB. By virtue of being first more than anything else I suspect the plan got the ball rolling and strongly informed the perspective that is being worked from. I believe I sent you an early draft of this, please hold on to it, please hold it closely for now. If something is mentioned in it and I dont mention it here it is for one of 2 reasons: I dont know if the idea made the cut, or I dont want the UBoT to see under the hood. Shockingly enough to me, and everyone else people seemed to like our ideas. Which really speaks more to the power of initiative and caffiene than to the depths of my insight IMHO... nonetheless nobody ever asked me how to spend millions of dollars on Antioch before, so I'm flattered to put in my 2 cents and time. I'll break this down into rough sections: Board: Right now, the AEB is in the process of approaching various former board members and prominent alumni with deep pockets to step back in and form the core of the new board. I've only heard a couple of names but those names dont surprise me and shouldnt surprise anyone else with a strong grasp of Antioch history. I wont discuss their identities nor their commitment level as this is all in the disucss and invite stage. Likely those members of the Board who demonstrate their loyalty in August may be invited to come over but that is speculation on my part. The board will also have represetatives from the various stakeholder groups: faculty, staff, students, YS residents etc. The Board is expected to raise much more money than I had initially hoped for and planned around with my chicken scratch figures. People are talking about building the Endowement straight away and since I dont know about raising that kind of money and they do, I'm going to absorb their confindence is the prospects of said project. The plan is for the Board to have total control over all things Antioch within the state of Ohio. All undergraduate programs will be run by the college. The college and McGregor will merge. I'm not in a position to discuss the disposition of McGregor's other programs publicaly at this time. What powers --IF ANY-- the UBoT would retain would relate to shared services (if any because the college would share few services), the brand name, and joint control of joint programs (Not AEA... which is ours). Finnances: The College would buy off the existing $13 million bond. The university would then pay us back a reduced rate of interest over a number of years. This is a good deal for both parties. The College's bond rating appears to be A+/A-1 so far as anyone can tell. There is no evidence of any missed bond payments. I checked both Moody's and S&P. So the good news is we can borrow money if we have to. The other news is that Dan Fallon lied his ass off in New York. Greene County just recieved Port Authority from the Federal Government... I know... what port? However that puts them in a position to give us developement bonds for the physical plant. Thanks congressional Pork. I'm against borrowing money as a matter of principle but its there if we need it. The Endowment will be built to 100 million dollars of the next 5 years. The target student body size is 1200 by 2011 (hehehe 800 by 2000 anyone?) Physical Plant: West will remodeled as guest housing. The Library will get it's renovation. Nothing I touch will forget Joe Cali. The campus will go wireless. A new dorm will be built on the site of the old presidents dorms. A senior village will be included on campus on the golf course. The senoir learning community will be open primarily to Alumni and Quakers who will be fully aware of where they are moving to. It will not be a residential care facility. Campus housing will be for 600 - 700 students by 2010. All upper level students will have singles. Birch Manor will be remodelled as a conference center. Curriculum: Here is where I'm fuzzy but it looks like we are going back to the quarter system. Majors will be expanded and the faculty will be expanded. The Co-op Requirement will be expanded back to 6 or 7 co-ops. Own plans will be allowed. Associates Degrees in selected subjects will be offered to non-residential students. CG membership will be open to Alumni and Yellow Springs Residents. Non-Student community members will be allowed to take 1 course per year. All other benifits and respondsabilties that go with community membership will be unchanged. The cost of tutition will be reduced by 20%. Students entering in the 2008 -2009 and 2009 - 2010 years will be able to lock in their tutition rate for the course of their undergraduate careers. Retired Volunteer Alumni with PhDs will be recruited to Adjunct (living in the west dorm) on a quarterly basis to round out the fauclty in the begining as we ramp up out capability to recruit tenured and tenrue track faculty and pay them. I'm told there is not a shortage of volunteers. A strong commitment to social justice, academic execellence and co-operative education will be retained. Majors an programs centering on sustainble developement will be added. Education as a course of study will be expanded as it is a growing market. ------------ It's getting late.. but what I will try and do is see if I cant get a draft of the mission statement on this forum in the next couple of days. Hope this helps, -----G _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 8 23:10:59 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 8 23:24:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > >Matt, I tried to answer this earlier, but something went wacko with my mail >program It was owned by you? _________________________________________________________________ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 23:18:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 23:32:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Us and Them In-Reply-To: <68f2793e5bdb858ff1279fa93ad51124@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Pam: There really are a small group of well-connected, well-off and well-intentioned alumni, most of whom appear to have graduated between the mid-1950s and the mid-1960s, who are indeed engaged in a hostile takeover of the college. I say well intentioned because they dislike most everything about Antioch and Antiochians which came after their time. Some of them hate the student radicalism which led to the Strike of 1973. Some of them hate the inherent elite nature of a residential undergraduate program with tenured faculty, and can't understand why "the network" they helped to build and foster from 1965 forward didn't subsume the college earlier than 2007 -- they seem to want to see that happen before their clogged arteries take them away on their final heart attack. Some see the faculty as overpaid and decadent, the post-strike students as dangerous lunatics. They have their own special version of progressivism which doesn't include the SOPP, Mumia Abu-Jamal, and if you asked them around the kitchen table after a third sangria, loudmouthed queers and . Some of them really, _really_ fucking hate Bob Devine. That's all. For them, that's enough. They want to see /order/. They like Steve Lawry kicking those dope-sucking snot-nosed kids asses. They like Art and Toni finally sweeping out the overpaid deadwood unreconstructed Marxist "professors." If it takes busting a union, well, so be it -- and honestly, most of these folks are all for it. After all, didn't public employee unions give some of them no end of grief in their own fiefdom within state government? As I said, these alumni are well-connected -- Toni and Art not only answer their questions, take their calls, they have them to dinner, and sit at full attention with eyes glistening as tales are told of mini-malls and old-folks homes and intergenerational somethings and provisioning by Sysco Systems and management by Hyatt and isn't it all so orderly and RESPECTABLE? They are well-off -- they've promised enough to make the University leadership feel comfortable about having to fight one, maybe two legal battles while closing the Yellow Springs campus, completing work on the McGregor Campus and keeping the other campuses spinning despite having spent a summer dragging the Antioch brand name through manure. And ensuring that nearly all other living alumni toss all further correspondence from the Annual Fund in the shredder, unopened. They think they have it right, these alumni. Toni and Tom have set the stage and cooked the books and starved the college and Art, on cue, got the majority and closed the school. Do not ask Art questions, Art knows better(tm). As for me, I love my college. And on June 12, 2007 I didn't hate anybody. But I'm learning to hate some people. Us and them. Yep. Alan Benard, '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 8 23:32:33 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 8 23:45:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Us and Them In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5f50581b5f4c8a22c60c7d27a2830135@www.antiochians.org> >Pam: > >There really are a small group of well-connected, well-off and well-intentioned alumni, most of whom appear to have graduated between the mid-1950s and the mid-1960s, who are indeed engaged in a hostile takeover of the college. > >I say well intentioned because they dislike most everything about Antioch and Antiochians which came after their time. > >Some of them hate the student radicalism which led to the Strike of 1973. > >Some of them hate the inherent elite nature of a residential undergraduate program with tenured faculty, and can't understand why "the network" they helped to build and foster from 1965 forward didn't subsume the college earlier than 2007 -- they seem to want to see that happen before their clogged arteries take them away on their final heart attack. > >Some see the faculty as overpaid and decadent, the post-strike students as dangerous lunatics. They have their own special version of progressivism which doesn't include the SOPP, Mumia Abu-Jamal, and if you asked them around the kitchen table after a third sangria, loudmouthed queers. > >Some of them really, _really_ fucking hate Bob Devine. That's all. For them, that's enough. > >They want to see /order/. They like Steve Lawry kicking those dope-sucking snot-nosed kids asses. They like Art and Toni finally sweeping out the overpaid deadwood unreconstructed Marxist "professors." If it takes busting a union, well, so be it -- and honestly, most of these folks are all for it. After all, didn't public employee unions give some of them no end of grief in their own fiefdom within state government? > >As I said, these alumni are well-connected -- Toni and Art not only answer their questions, take their calls, they have them to dinner, and sit at full attention with eyes glistening as tales are told of mini-malls and old-folks homes and intergenerational somethings and provisioning by Sysco Systems and management by Hyatt and isn't it all so orderly and RESPECTABLE? > >They are well-off -- they've promised enough to make the University leadership feel comfortable about having to fight one, maybe two legal battles while closing the Yellow Springs campus, completing work on the McGregor Campus and keeping the other campuses spinning despite having spent a summer dragging the Antioch brand name through manure. And ensuring that nearly all other living alumni toss all further correspondence from the Annual Fund in the shredder, unopened. > >They think they have it right, these alumni. Toni and Tom have set the stage and cooked the books and starved the college and Art, on cue, got the majority and closed the school. Do not ask Art questions, Art knows better(tm). > >As for me, I love my college. And on June 12, 2007 I didn't hate anybody. > >But I'm learning to hate some people. > >Us and them. Yep. > >Alan Benard, '92 [img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/298999076_2da646173d.jpg?v=0[/img] From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Aug 8 23:49:30 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 9 00:03:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... Message-ID: In a message dated 8/8/2007 9:01:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: Sistersara, I believe you are confusing accreditation with certification. The accreditation process generally happens through regional accrediting bodies (although the Spellings Commission is looking at ways of revising the current system). Organizations such as the ACS often certify certain programs, but the certification is a sort of bonus that recognizes good programs, as opposed to certification which implies maintaining minimum standards. Certainly being certified by all professional organizations is something that Antioch should shoot for, but not being certified doesn't mean that programs (or graduates) are subpar Nope, not confused. Of course North Central is the regional association that accredits all of Antioch, but individual programs are also accredited too by various specialist bodies, and North Central would take notice of these things as it does it's reviews. (My guess is that one reason the college is suspending next year has to do with North Central finally laying down some requirements for continued accreditation. There was a report this spring which has not been published, but my guess is that BoT finally realized it could no longer keep up the fiction. I suspect closing has much to do with eventually re-opening with North Central accreditation in tact.) In terms of Chemistry, the accreditation had very significant meaning to students. ACS offered upperclasspersons in my day, at least half the cost of Antioch for the last two or three years (remember it was five years in those days), and based on merit, a very significant part of any group of Antioch Chemistry Majors had this financial support. ACS also sponsored students for co-op jobs when particular research interests were identified, and ACS could help match student with job and mentor. A student that ACS had taken note of while an undergraduate, frequently got a full fellowship for grad school, with cost of living stipend, with ACS paying half the cost. The whole point of a professional society is to promote excellence in its field, and to identify up and coming youngsters who will do the profession and the society proud. This remains the pattern in all of the sciences. When the BoT first made the announcement, I posted some notes on what was happening on an E-Mail discussion group I've been part of for about ten years, and one of the members, a Native of Dayton, but now in his 80's and way back when, one of the Juniors out at Cal Tech during WWII and all the work that Oppenheimer was pushing having to do with Nuclear Chemistry really flipped out. He knew Antioch well, and had vast experience working in the national labs with Antiochians (Alumni and co-op's) over many years. He couldn't believe it. I knew that he was a former member of the board of ACS, so I suggested he look at some of the reports, and his ultimate response was that no one (except maybe Bush) could be as evil as the Antioch Board in letting such a goose laying golden eggs go to rot. Yes, I know exactly what I am talking about. Stephen Gould knew what he observed and was talking about. It is high time Antiochians learn something about what the external world really thought. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 00:53:50 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 01:03:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Us and Them Message-ID: No, I'm not one of their operatives. I'm just a naive person coming late to the discussion, as you've noted, who wants to believe they're not our enemy, but I trust those of you who know them better. I guess all of our musings about what is worth keeping and how to keep the place alive is fruitless. how depressing. I hate to see money raised go to legal fees, but if it must, it must. From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 01:03:03 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 01:12:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ED Wilson and grades Message-ID: Howard, I think I finally get it. Wilson and Ayoub probably left after the new First Year program was instituted. That was indeed a "no grades, no specific requirements" program, but only for first year students (I think it started in about 66). They then integrated into the regular academic program. They didn't have specific requirements, but they had to come up with a first year plan and work closely with their advisor. THey could take a traditional set of courses if they wanted to, or they could do independent study, or visit each and every first year course over the quarter, or do a combination. It was a huge adjustment for professors, because they were asked to make each lecture a stand-alone lecture, since students might only come to that particular class occasionally. I was amazed more faculty didn't rebel. They might have taught their intro course in the same way for years and years, and suddenly, they had to change. I talked to Bud Hogarty about it in '72 or '73. He said that the data coming in on students who had gone through that program showed that they did just as well academically as their predecessors, in terms of grades, number graduating, number going on to advanced programs, getting fellowships, etc. And they did better socially. The program seemed to give them time and space to deal with and integrate the social pressures that can be such a distraction the first year. Not all innovation is bad. Pam From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 9 01:00:37 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 9 01:14:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Us and Them In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pam I'd like to say right off I didnt say this because I dint like what you had to say, although I dont agree with all of it. It's just that you're involvement, unfortunately for the course of our conversation, fit a pattern. Every couple of days, a new Alumni will appear on the list. They will make one or two nice posts that most people will blandly agree with. A day or two later they will call for reconcilation with the board. Then they will be in broad agreement with existing people on the forum who are the strongest critics of the present generation of Antiochians. Then the fun begins. Then they stop and a new one appeared. It had been quiet for a day. Then you chimed in. Then you started the us and them thread. So I had to ask. Nothing personal, my appologies. Anyhow... If you love the college as we do, and wish to save it as we do, you have to start from the point of view that this is a hostile takeover with very un-Antiochian values at its core. Once you see that there is little to no truth comming from the other side, and they are in the middle of very strong attempts at narative control, the situation will become alot more clear... Thats when denial ends and anger starts. ----G _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 01:57:50 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 02:07:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] the business plan Message-ID: wow, Gerry, this sounds pretty awesome. I might even volunteer as an adjunct faculty member (if I ever sell my house in this market) and even sign on to the retirement community (but only when I can't hike in the Southwest anymore). What terrific ideas! From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 9 02:10:04 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 9 02:23:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] the business plan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's all moot if we dont win, which will take resolve and hard work.... there is a Churchill quote or two that come to mind... of course.. he was never one for predictions of good times. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: Pam Olsen >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: >Subject: [Alumni-chat] the business plan >Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:57:50 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc1-f10.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 8 >Aug 2007 22:54:07 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCA660EFA5B;Thu, 9 Aug 2007 02:07:28 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from wind.imbris.com (wind.imbris.com [216.18.130.7])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8185060EFA3Bfor >; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 02:07:20 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [216.18.131.94] (cda131-94.imbris.com [216.18.131.94])by >wind.imbris.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l795ruG0070758for >; Wed, 8 Aug 2007 22:53:57 -0700 >(PDT)(envelope-from theodora@imbris.com) >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >GSH7qyRyHSq6YAQJl08LTxmX40gTcyEdP9Ja4ED9llMNimpSr09NPtAVzXm3IU7sR1dmToeLbWxWRtvV1g61Sg== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2007 05:54:07.0907 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B34E4F30:01C7DA49] > >wow, Gerry, this sounds pretty awesome. I might even volunteer as an >adjunct faculty member (if I ever sell my house in this market) and even >sign on to the retirement community (but only when I can't hike in the >Southwest anymore). What terrific ideas! > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 03:31:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 03:45:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Ed Wilson and grades In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <06186739b7af7d3d6f9a44670d4e722e@www.antiochians.org> Pam, The much-maligned Renewal Plan was actually an attempt to break out of Antioch's kind of sink-or-swim mentality, which you describe there. And it was on those specifics, actually, that the Renewal plan took its hardest hits from members of the community. There seemed to be a conception that the difficulty was what made Antioch good (true, to a point) but that always, in my view, tended to ignore the lack of support for people who didn't have the basic background. >I was a sociology/anthropology major. And I am sure Ed Wilson was a great >guy and excellent professor. I remember him talking to me about being from >Utah when I first got there and complimenting me for wanting to think >instead of be safe (in Utah they didn't teach a lot of thinking). I would >love to read the document that he wrote about Antioch and it's decline. > >That being said, when I graduated with a major in soc-anthro, my GRE scores >were higher in science than they were in sociology. Much higher. Like, in >the high 90s, vs. the mid-50s, or something. And I had only two or three >science courses. > >What i concluded from that was that I learned more in Girl Scouts than I did >academically at Antioch, at least in sociology. When I graduated, I >hated books so much that I couldn't even look at them to put them on my >bookshelf when I moved. I just shoved them on in no particular order and >didn't pick up a book for six months. Months later, I was browsing in the >bookstore and picked up Carl Rogers' book "On Becoming a Person." I cracked >it open, read a few passages, and was blown away. Being in therapy at the >time, I could not believe that people wrote about some of the things i was >going through. i bought the book, vowing to myself that never again was >anyone going to tell me what to get out of a book. I promised myself I >would read it upside down and backwards, two pages at a sitting, if i >wanted to! GRadually, I learned to enjoy books again. > >That's not because Ed and the others weren't very knowledgable people. It's >because Antioch's philosophy of reportedly letting everyone work at their >own pace meant lickety-split or faster. It didn't mean allowing folks like >me to get filled in on the basics before they jumped into advanced work. >EVery book I read changes my life (I'm still kinda that way.) I couldn't >change my life three times a week, and with essentially no guidance. > >For me, and I'm sure for many students, it would have been more helpful and >instructive to let me start where I was and move forward. Or to have had >more guidance in learning how to think. Most Antiochians were from eastern >"prep schools." They read in high school books I'd never heard of. They >were way ahead of me. I was at the top of my high school class in Utah, or >close to it. I'm not a dummy. I just hadn't had the exposure). > >All of which is to say, there is a place for independent study, designing >one's own learning path, and having different approaches to evaluation than >grades. Not all students can fit into traditional educational models. As I >recall, when grades where stopped, it was initially only in the Inner >College, which was a small group of students in a particular dorm trying to >redefine a few things for themselves. Although I wasn't officially in the >Inner College, I was dating someone who was, and so I sat in on most of the >discussions. I recall that students could have it either way: a grade if >they wanted one, or an evaluation. Personally, I celebrated this >development and wished it could have happened sooner (it happened in '67-68, >as I recall (well, possibly 66-67), and then for only a portion of the >students, so I'm not sure how it led to Ed's leaving). It was too late for >me. I had also wanted to combine a major in education and anthropology, and >was told, "If you don't like our program, go somewhere else." And then, >just as I graduated, they allowed students to define their own majors. It >seems to be my lot in life. A single payor in health care will come down >the pike someday, too. About the time I die. > >I eventually overcame my aversion to books, and of course in grad school I >had to succumb to being told what to get out of a book, in a sense. But >honestly, I don't think I ever really learned to think until I went to >Duquesne. We didn't read a book a week for each course there, we read one, >maybe two, by the same author, during the whole course, and went through it >sentence by sentence, practically, in class, with the professor, and >compared that thinker then and there to others. Duquesne was attempting to >create a new psychology, so they were all learning how to think through >things differently than traditional psychology. After doing this a few >times, of course, we learned to do it ourselves, and that's the whole point. >Giving students the tools to go forth independently. We had papers at >Duquesne, one each semester for each course, not two, as at Antioch, and we >had almost no exams (they had gleaned, correctly, I think, that exams are >generally useless, resulting in cramming and little true learning). I mean, >grad school was easier than Antioch,in terms of the amount of work, and yet, >I learned more there about how to think. > >The problem as I saw it when I was at Antioch was that there were no basic >courses. Every course was an experimental or advanced course, so there was >no sense of developing a fund of knowledge in a field. When I took >"Theories of Athropology," I thought, finally, a basic reading course so I >can get some background. But Ayoub decided to do an experiment and have >each of us take a single theorist and present to the class what that person >had to say that was a unique contribution to the field. Well, how the heck >should I know, if I don't know what everyone else said! I intentially >picked the first theorist in order by years (and interestingly, I don't have >a clue now who it was)....but it was still very difficult. And apparently, >it was difficult for everyone, because Ayoub was upset around the middle of >the quarter that no one seemed to be getting their work done and he thought >we were not working. We finally got through to him that what he was asking >was no small task, even for the students who were more sophisticated in the >field than I was. > >I guess my point is, Howard, that everything has it's context, and everyone >has their point of view, and students have different kinds of needs. The >JOBS at Antioch were fabulous and helped me find my true calling in life, >the PLACE was wonderful, and there was much to learn outside of class in >being a part of the COMMUNITY that has stayed with me for life. But that >so-called rigorous academic program was not, from my point of view, >consistent with what Antioch claimed to be doing in terms of letting each >student work at their own pace and meet their own educational needs and >goals, and it was not the best for teaching thinking. > >IMHO! > > >Pam ('68) From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 05:14:41 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)) Date: Thu Aug 9 05:28:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Ed Wilson and grades In-Reply-To: <06186739b7af7d3d6f9a44670d4e722e@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <49c6f3f56347424485294bf026285672@antiochians.org> The 2004 edition of the /Unofficial, Biased Guide to the 331 Most Interesting Colleges/, says that at Antioch "emphasis is placed on reading original texts, which students are asked to analyze and deconstruct." I thought a minute, and then said, yeah, that was kind of what I did, ('73-'77, '87) especially in my anthropology courses. As an intellectual dilettante who had a pretty good public school eduction and a mother who loved books and no career path it worked for me at the time, but any synthesis or overview I pretty much had to construct myself, and the results were patchy. I agree that whatever one's major, interdisciplinary or not, one should first gain an understanding of the context in which one is working. This understanding would be different for an "intuitive" than it would be for a "thinker," and there should be room in the program for different learning styles, but one should begin with fundamentals. This builds confidence. I agree that the typical Antiochian has a strong mind, but no 20 year old is so brilliant that they don't need training, especially with the sheer bulk of knowledge and theory swirling about in the collective. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 05:26:51 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)) Date: Thu Aug 9 05:40:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: <0ac201c7d9c7$f5efa0f0$6501a8c0@hhhome> Message-ID: <4519553569fa75a57dcc8fcb79352ead@antiochians.org> Howard, This analogy is weak and does not advance the discussion, so I will only respond by noting that the only people using it are those eager to distribute the assets to selected beneficiaries. >When a person has died we dispose of the body in a respectful way. The accomplishments of the person are remembered and honored. His/her assets are distributed to beneficiaries. From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 9 06:17:17 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Thu Aug 9 06:30:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alumni Chat List on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 at 11:08 PM -0500 wrote: > >The Library will get it's renovation. Nothing I touch will forget Joe >Cali. If this is the case, you need to build a NEW Library. Joe was totally against renovation. His plan would have been to tear down the Gym, build the Library on that spot, them tear down the Library and build a new Gym there. Sandy From lucy.wollin at verizon.net Thu Aug 9 07:39:03 2007 From: lucy.wollin at verizon.net (lwollin) Date: Thu Aug 9 07:52:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ED Wilson and grades References: Message-ID: <005101c7da79$e3910ae0$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> Well, it would have been lousy for me (in1956). What a terrible idea for most people. If they did well anyway, good for them, but I don't blame Ev Wilson and Ayoub if they bolted because of it. How many people either left after the first year or later? I'm sorry, but the good old days WERE better. If there isn't a hefty number of alumni from the forties and fifties involved in the reinstitution of Antioch who actually remember what a good thing structure can be for you, this is a waste of time. Dropping structure and requirements and bleeding the College for the vampirish University are what put things where they are. Do your own thing without me, thanks. As for it being better for your social life, come on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Olsen" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:03 AM Subject: [Alumni-chat] ED Wilson and grades > Howard, I think I finally get it. Wilson and Ayoub probably left after > the > new First Year program was instituted. That was indeed a "no grades, no > specific requirements" program, but only for first year students (I think > it > started in about 66). They then integrated into the regular academic > program. > > They didn't have specific requirements, but they had to come up with a > first > year plan and work closely with their advisor. THey could take a > traditional set of courses if they wanted to, or they could do independent > study, or visit each and every first year course over the quarter, or do a > combination. > > It was a huge adjustment for professors, because they were asked to make > each lecture a stand-alone lecture, since students might only come to that > particular class occasionally. I was amazed more faculty didn't rebel. > They might have taught their intro course in the same way for years and > years, and suddenly, they had to change. > > I talked to Bud Hogarty about it in '72 or '73. He said that the data > coming in on students who had gone through that program showed that they > did > just as well academically as their predecessors, in terms of grades, > number > graduating, number going on to advanced programs, getting fellowships, > etc. > And they did better socially. The program seemed to give them time and > space to deal with and integrate the social pressures that can be such a > distraction the first year. > > Not all innovation is bad. > > Pam > > > From wasb at albany.edu Thu Aug 9 07:41:56 2007 From: wasb at albany.edu (Stephen L. Wasby) Date: Thu Aug 9 07:55:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Ed Wilson and grades References: <49c6f3f56347424485294bf026285672@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <00a201c7da7a$56910b80$53761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> I want to second the point that, while asking students to spend time on their own integrating material is important, so that it doesn't become a matter of their remembering only "A said, B said, C said" (a problem with doctoral student comprehensive exams, as some who read this will recognize), it is also crucial to provide some background and perspective (or, rather, perspectives) to assist the process. When students --even those from "good" high schools and from families in which lots of reading is done-- lack basic knowledge in an area, much (although not all) of reading "original texts" is wasted. I say this as a political scientist whose view is that basic preparation about "government" in high school most often remains at the level of "civics education" and is poorly done at that. In economics, most students come to college with not the "foggiest" idea of basic concepts, and, to boot, have implicit economic ideologies inherited from their parents; without a basic course, it is difficult for anyone to proceed on their own. Steve Wasby '59 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Ed Wilson and grades > The 2004 edition of the /Unofficial, Biased Guide to the 331 Most > Interesting Colleges/, says that at Antioch "emphasis is placed on reading > original texts, which students are asked to analyze and deconstruct." > I thought a minute, and then said, yeah, that was kind of what I did, > ('73-'77, '87) especially in my anthropology courses. > As an intellectual dilettante who had a pretty good public school eduction > and a mother who loved books and no career path it worked for me at the > time, but any synthesis or overview I pretty much had to construct myself, > and the results were patchy. I agree that whatever one's major, > interdisciplinary or not, one should first gain an understanding of the > context in which one is working. This understanding would be different for > an "intuitive" than it would be for a "thinker," and there should be room > in the program for different learning styles, but one should begin with > fundamentals. This builds confidence. I agree that the typical Antiochian > has a strong mind, but no 20 year old is so brilliant that they don't need > training, especially with the sheer bulk of knowledge and theory swirling > about in the collective. > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/941 - Release Date: 8/7/2007 > 4:06 PM > > From lucy.wollin at verizon.net Thu Aug 9 07:49:09 2007 From: lucy.wollin at verizon.net (lwollin) Date: Thu Aug 9 08:02:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker References: <9ee9547aa9b2c720be564c7fde697b7d@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <006901c7da7b$4c8e8670$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> "Lunatic fringe"? Who are they? The ones who don't want Antioch College to close? You mean the alumni who've been around for a few decades and might actually have wanted to donate money to help solve the problems? Good idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker > Bob, > > I'm gonna have to partially disagree with you on this one. Initially yes, > it was a photo-op... total bullshit. As Dan would say I dont trust those > people further than I can throw main building. > > I'd like to ask you however to entertain and discuss with me if you would > the following: > > Considering: > > 1) We have been unwavering. > > 2) We are moving forward with our revitalization plan and the business > plan is growing steadily closer to completion > > 3) The faculty is suing > > 4) The bond documents seem to state that they could loose the McGregor > building > > 5) Their "PR" offensive is about as effective as the BEF was at the Somme > > 6) The King family might sue and they look not so nice over that disaster. > > Is it not possible that they are in a state of disunity and disarray and > way be brought to the table in August under favorable terms despite the > desires of Herr Zucker and Chancellor Murdock? > > I'm just saying that my shark-genes smell blood in the water and I think > its thiers > > Gerry, > > I'm not sure of your shark genes, but could be persuaded. It's clear that > the University is floundering and doesn't know what they are doing. The > public mistakes attest to this. But this PR strategy seems to me to be > the life raft: Move off the closing, show that you can engage with the > "lunatic fringe" that opposes the closing, and move on to visioning the > future. The desperation, I suspect, is that the protracted bad press is > hurting University enrollments. I suppose that the proof will be in the > pudding -- who is best able to "spin" the meetings in Cincinnati -- but > I'm not sure that anyone will be heard in Cincinnati. We've been told that > the decision to close the College is irreversible. My money is on the > public session being a repeat of the Reunion session, and the closed > session being the reading of statements by various invited constituencies. > > Do you have the latest version of the business plan that you might share > with me? > > Bob > > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 08:42:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (luce (lucy.wollin@verizon.net)) Date: Thu Aug 9 08:55:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Ed Wilson and grades Message-ID: <6383c800e905699d5a1112d7c70b212b@antiochians.org> Absolutely. I needed the first year with Ollie Loud (Physical Science World Picture), the Western Civ class, Jud Jerome's freshman English class, More On Math, etc. to organize my ideas about myself and where I wanted to put my energies. I was on campus all year and had the opportunity to see where I stood in terms of A and B Divs and was ready for co-op jobs after a year of meeting and dealing with other students from all over the country and with all sorts of interests. I had structure, struggled with some difficult studies, found ease in others, and adjusted to be on my own after a pretty protected childhood. At 16, which is when I got to Antioch, I had NO IDEA what the world was like or what I wanted to do in it. A structured year with REQUIREMENTS and DIRECTION was exactly what I needed. Learning to deal with disappointments as well as successes in a protected environment certainly helped me later on. I had plenty of freedom as well, and certainly used it! Elsewhere on this Board I have read some really thoughtless and ignorant hostility against Antioch alumni of the 50's and '60's. It's clear that the people writing have NO idea of who we are and how varied. >I want to second the point that, while asking students to spend time on >their own integrating material is important, so that it doesn't become a >matter of their remembering only "A said, B said, C said" (a problem with >doctoral student comprehensive exams, as some who read this will recognize), >it is also crucial to provide some background and perspective (or, rather, >perspectives) to assist the process. When students --even those from "good" >high schools and from families in which lots of reading is done-- lack basic >knowledge in an area, much (although not all) of reading "original texts" >is wasted. I say this as a political scientist whose view is that basic >preparation about "government" in high school most often remains at >the level of "civics education" and is poorly done at that. >In economics, most students come to college with not the "foggiest" idea of >basic concepts, and, to boot, have implicit economic ideologies inherited >from their parents; without a basic course, it is difficult for anyone to >proceed on their own. >Steve Wasby '59 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)" > >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:14 AM >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Ed Wilson and grades > > >>The 2004 edition of the /Unofficial, Biased Guide to the 331 Most >>Interesting Colleges/, says that at Antioch "emphasis is placed on reading >>original texts, which students are asked to analyze and deconstruct." >>I thought a minute, and then said, yeah, that was kind of what I did, >>('73-'77, '87) especially in my anthropology courses. >>As an intellectual dilettante who had a pretty good public school eduction >>and a mother who loved books and no career path it worked for me at the >>time, but any synthesis or overview I pretty much had to construct myself, >>and the results were patchy. I agree that whatever one's major, >>interdisciplinary or not, one should first gain an understanding of the >>context in which one is working. This understanding would be different for >>an "intuitive" than it would be for a "thinker," and there should be room >>in the program for different learning styles, but one should begin with >>fundamentals. This builds confidence. I agree that the typical Antiochian >>has a strong mind, but no 20 year old is so brilliant that they don't need >>training, especially with the sheer bulk of knowledge and theory swirling >>about in the collective. >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/941 - Release Date: 8/7/2007 >>4:06 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 09:23:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 09:37:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At the risk of sevolving into semantics, I still hold that you are confusing accreditation with certification. All that you mention may be true, but it is based on the ACS *certifying* a program. The difference is important. Accreditation is the baseline, and saying that a program loses accreditation leads people to believe that the program is not recognized as meeting even minimal standards. I don't mean to excuse the loss of certification, but I think that using the proper terms leads to greater clarity within the discussion. Cheers, Skooter >Nope, not confused. Of course North Central is the regional association >that accredits all of Antioch, but individual programs are also accredited too >by various specialist bodies, and North Central would take notice of these >things as it does it's reviews. (My guess is that one reason the college is >suspending next year has to do with North Central finally laying down some >requirements for continued accreditation. There was a report this spring which >has not been published, but my guess is that BoT finally realized it could no >longer keep up the fiction. I suspect closing has much to do with eventually >re-opening with North Central accreditation in tact.) > >In terms of Chemistry, the accreditation had very significant meaning to >students. ACS offered upperclasspersons in my day, at least half the cost of >Antioch for the last two or three years (remember it was five years in those >days), and based on merit, a very significant part of any group of Antioch >Chemistry Majors had this financial support. ACS also sponsored students for >co-op jobs when particular research interests were identified, and ACS could >help match student with job and mentor. A student that ACS had taken note of >while an undergraduate, frequently got a full fellowship for grad school, with >cost of living stipend, with ACS paying half the cost. The whole point of a >professional society is to promote excellence in its field, and to identify >up and coming youngsters who will do the profession and the society proud. >This remains the pattern in all of the sciences. > >When the BoT first made the announcement, I posted some notes on what was >happening on an E-Mail discussion group I've been part of for about ten years, >and one of the members, a Native of Dayton, but now in his 80's and way back >when, one of the Juniors out at Cal Tech during WWII and all the work that >Oppenheimer was pushing having to do with Nuclear Chemistry really flipped out. >He knew Antioch well, and had vast experience working in the national labs >with Antiochians (Alumni and co-op's) over many years. He couldn't believe >it. I knew that he was a former member of the board of ACS, so I suggested he >look at some of the reports, and his ultimate response was that no one >(except maybe Bush) could be as evil as the Antioch Board in letting such a goose >laying golden eggs go to rot. Yes, I know exactly what I am talking about. >Stephen Gould knew what he observed and was talking about. It is high time >Antiochians learn something about what the external world really thought. > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 9 09:30:59 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 9 09:44:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: one might even call the *deliberate* conflation of the terms.... lying "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Blast from the past... >Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 08:23:59 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc11-f1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 9 >Aug 2007 06:24:02 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F4860F11AD;Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:37:25 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C636560F118Efor >; Thu, 9 Aug 2007 09:37:22 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IJ7zc-0002nd-1xfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Thu, 09 Aug 2007 08:24:00 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >vGzX0e+ktu4j/8T83nZ4cuMLxPvhw0O2G06BhXg1QrjKl79HqoiT2L7MFfPcjRBCrBAOoAEEpHQcGEOtEgfMYA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2007 13:24:02.0934 (UTC) >FILETIME=[8D988960:01C7DA88] > >At the risk of sevolving into semantics, I still hold that you are >confusing accreditation with certification. All that you mention may be >true, but it is based on the ACS *certifying* a program. The difference is >important. Accreditation is the baseline, and saying that a program loses >accreditation leads people to believe that the program is not recognized as >meeting even minimal standards. > >I don't mean to excuse the loss of certification, but I think that using >the proper terms leads to greater clarity within the discussion. > >Cheers, >Skooter > > >Nope, not confused. Of course North Central is the regional association > >that accredits all of Antioch, but individual programs are also >accredited too > >by various specialist bodies, and North Central would take notice of >these > >things as it does it's reviews. (My guess is that one reason the >college is > >suspending next year has to do with North Central finally laying down >some > >requirements for continued accreditation. There was a report this >spring which > >has not been published, but my guess is that BoT finally realized it >could no > >longer keep up the fiction. I suspect closing has much to do with >eventually > >re-opening with North Central accreditation in tact.) > > > >In terms of Chemistry, the accreditation had very significant meaning to > >students. ACS offered upperclasspersons in my day, at least half the >cost of > >Antioch for the last two or three years (remember it was five years in >those > >days), and based on merit, a very significant part of any group of >Antioch > >Chemistry Majors had this financial support. ACS also sponsored students > for > >co-op jobs when particular research interests were identified, and ACS >could > >help match student with job and mentor. A student that ACS had taken >note of > >while an undergraduate, frequently got a full fellowship for grad school, > with > >cost of living stipend, with ACS paying half the cost. The whole point >of a > >professional society is to promote excellence in its field, and to >identify > >up and coming youngsters who will do the profession and the society >proud. > >This remains the pattern in all of the sciences. > > > >When the BoT first made the announcement, I posted some notes on what was > >happening on an E-Mail discussion group I've been part of for about ten >years, > >and one of the members, a Native of Dayton, but now in his 80's and way >back > >when, one of the Juniors out at Cal Tech during WWII and all the work >that > >Oppenheimer was pushing having to do with Nuclear Chemistry really >flipped out. > >He knew Antioch well, and had vast experience working in the national >labs > >with Antiochians (Alumni and co-op's) over many years. He couldn't >believe > >it. I knew that he was a former member of the board of ACS, so I >suggested he > >look at some of the reports, and his ultimate response was that no one > >(except maybe Bush) could be as evil as the Antioch Board in letting such >a goose > >laying golden eggs go to rot. Yes, I know exactly what I am talking >about. > >Stephen Gould knew what he observed and was talking about. It is high >time > >Antiochians learn something about what the external world really >thought. > > > > > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new >AOL at > >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 10:13:16 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 10:22:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions Message-ID: Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, perhaps) to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and what, if anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more about the current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. From rgrimes at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 9 10:09:37 2007 From: rgrimes at antioch-college.edu (Risa Grimes) Date: Thu Aug 9 10:23:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Alumni-chat Digest, Vol 6, Issue 17 Message-ID: I am on vacation. I will return on Wednesday, Aug. 15th and will answer your email at that time. If you need assistance prior to my return, please contact April Ratliff at 1-800-411-6780 or aratliff@antioch-college.edu and she will direct your request to the right staff member. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 10:16:51 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 10:30:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, perhaps) >to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and what, if >anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more about the >current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. Excellent idea! Could someone who uses firstclass post this to the Pulse discussion to get feedback from current students? Skooter From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 10:22:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Thu Aug 9 10:35:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <006901c7da7b$4c8e8670$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> Message-ID: "Lunatic fringe"? Who are they? The ones who don't want Antioch College to close? You mean the alumni who've been around for a few decades and might actually have wanted to donate money to help solve the problems? Good idea. Luce, I was being facetious by suggesting that the manner in which Board/University PR has been framing those opposed to the closing -- faculty ("cleansing the ghosts"), students ("toxic culture"), alums ("they can't possibly raise $40 million") and friends of the College alike -- is that they must be some kind of "lunatic fringe" because they can't see the "straightforward" logic of financial exigency. I was expecting the public meeting on the 25th to be an exercise in frustration, particularly since the agenda specifically excludes discussion of reversing or revisiting the Board decision, and that the ensuing interaction would make the image of the "unreasonableness" of those who seek to keep the College open. Bob From matt at baya.net Thu Aug 9 10:28:24 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Thu Aug 9 10:36:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68D8046E-F2F4-4022-BAD1-2E2E5D5D54CC@baya.net> There are a few current students and recent grads on these lists & the forums at Antiochians.org and I'm sure they'd be happy to share their experiences. However, my opinion on this is the first step is to get the college 'unclosed', then we can start the long hard road of recovery which will include some deep self-analysis of how things are currently and where we want to go. I know others want to do the deep analysis and fixing before the doors are opened again but the way I see it every day we're on 'death row' is another day we lose perspective students for Fall 2008. -Matt On Aug 9, 2007, at 10:13 AM, Pam Olsen wrote: > Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, > perhaps) > to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and > what, if > anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more > about the > current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From marklp2 at comcast.net Thu Aug 9 12:15:33 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Thu Aug 9 12:29:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: <68D8046E-F2F4-4022-BAD1-2E2E5D5D54CC@baya.net> References: <68D8046E-F2F4-4022-BAD1-2E2E5D5D54CC@baya.net> Message-ID: <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> It would be useful to find out somehow what was on the minds of the large number of students that seemed to disappear after the Renewal Plan was announced. Any way to do this? -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Baya Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:28 AM To: Alumni Chat List Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions There are a few current students and recent grads on these lists & the forums at Antiochians.org and I'm sure they'd be happy to share their experiences. However, my opinion on this is the first step is to get the college 'unclosed', then we can start the long hard road of recovery which will include some deep self-analysis of how things are currently and where we want to go. I know others want to do the deep analysis and fixing before the doors are opened again but the way I see it every day we're on 'death row' is another day we lose perspective students for Fall 2008. -Matt On Aug 9, 2007, at 10:13 AM, Pam Olsen wrote: > Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, > perhaps) > to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and > what, if > anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more > about the > current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From aadole at adelphia.net Thu Aug 9 15:38:24 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Thu Aug 9 12:51:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Yellow Springs tax loss Message-ID: The following is from the Columbus Dispatch. It was omitted from a post I sent yesterday. Art Dole Officials: Antioch College closure will cause tax revenue loss Tuesday,? August 7, 2007 12:37 PM YELLOW SPRINGS, Ohio ? This struggling village near Dayton will lose about $140,000 in income tax revenue when Antioch College closes next year, officials said. The village government expects to lose $100,000 in income tax collection when the private liberal arts college in southwest Ohio closes July 2008 due to lack of money, village administrator Eric Swansen said. The village raises about $1.25 million each year from a 1.5 percent income tax, Swansen said. The village general fund budget is currently about $1.5 million, he said. ?It's obviously a concern that is going to have to be addressed,? said councilwoman Karen Wintrow. The town is already struggling to keep up with growing expenses and aging infrastructure, and the revenue loss could hurt village amenities such as the park system and public pools, Wintrow said. If all 160 employees and 300 students leave town next spring, the Yellow Springs Exempted Village School District stands to lose an additional $40,000 in income taxes, a much smaller portion of their $7.3 million operating budget, Superintendent Norm Glismann said. Antioch College, founded in 1852, is the flagship for Antioch University, which has five other campuses in Ohio and on the East and West coasts. School officials want to restructure the school, upgrade facilities and reopen in 2012. ? From pas0705 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 12:51:58 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:05:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <175366.14600.qm@web63903.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- Mark Pomerantz wrote: > It would be useful to find out somehow what was on > the minds of the large > number of students that seemed to disappear after > the Renewal Plan was > announced. Any way to do this? What exactly is it you're asking? Why did over 2/3 of the students in the initial year of the Learning Communities curriculum leave? (i.e. fall 2005 entering students); or why did students leave between 2003 and 2005? -l ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC From sjr5 at nyu.edu Thu Aug 9 12:53:44 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:07:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> References: <68D8046E-F2F4-4022-BAD1-2E2E5D5D54CC@baya.net> <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: A current student who was at an Antioch meeting in New York last month was an entering student when the Renewal Plan went into effect. She said a third of her class left in the first three weeks because the introduction of the new classes was in such chaos, students didn't know what they were supposed to be doing from one day to the next, faculty were arguing with each other about how to teach, in class in front of students. (I don't mean this to be a knock on the faculty. Of course they were confused themselves and it seems inevitable that sometimes it would come out in front of the students.) You'd have to be an extremely resiliant 18-year-old to stay through something like that. Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Pomerantz Date: Thursday, August 9, 2007 12:15 pm Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions To: 'Alumni Chat List' > It would be useful to find out somehow what was on the minds of the large > number of students that seemed to disappear after the Renewal Plan was > announced. Any way to do this? > > -----Original Message----- > From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu > [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Baya > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:28 AM > To: Alumni Chat List > Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions > > There are a few current students and recent grads on these lists & > the forums at Antiochians.org and I'm sure they'd be happy to share > their experiences. However, my opinion on this is the first step is > to get the college 'unclosed', then we can start the long hard road > of recovery which will include some deep self-analysis of how things > > are currently and where we want to go. > > I know others want to do the deep analysis and fixing before the > doors are opened again but the way I see it every day we're on 'death > > row' is another day we lose perspective students for Fall 2008. > > -Matt > > On Aug 9, 2007, at 10:13 AM, Pam Olsen wrote: > > > Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, > > perhaps) > > to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and > > > what, if > > anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more > > about the > > current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 > 5:46 PM > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From aadole at adelphia.net Thu Aug 9 15:55:39 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:08:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/8/07 5:23 PM, "bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)" wrote: > Please let us not be fooled by their request for collaboration. Legal is the > way to go. > > Jane Slater > Class of '80 > > > Jane, > > I agree. It seems to me that the request for collaboration is a photo-op, > designed to say, "We're now working with stakeholders, have moved beyond the > closing to begin visioning the future." The faculty is intent on seeking > legal avenues to stop the closing and to protect the College from further > damage. > > Bob > > > > Bravo. Keep us posted. Art Dole From ilse1 at comcast.net Thu Aug 9 13:10:48 2007 From: ilse1 at comcast.net (ilse moon) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:24:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] re: Gould's efforts torpedoed References: Message-ID: <001f01c7daa8$3ba839f0$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Sounds like the current Bush administration tactics. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... > > In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:37:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > matt@baya.net writes: > > I never heard this, though if true that's not surprising that Antioch > didn't advertise this to current students. However I know a number of > fellow science students that got into the grad schools of their > choice without any problems so I'm not sure what affect this lack of > accreditation had exactly. > > Sara can you cite some sources and specifics here? Certainly working > getting things re-accredited down the road is a good goal > > Thanks > > -Matt '92 > > > > Matt, I tried to answer this earlier, but something went wacko with my > mail > program, so I gave it a nap. > > What you are asking is how I found out about the withdrawal of > accreditation > from Antioch's Science Programs, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, > etc. > Well, I found out about it from a classmate of mine, Stephen J. Gould. > He, > along with Joann Argetsinger were invited by Guskins to spend a week on > the > Antioch Campus during the first year of Guskin's presidency, (about 1987) > to > study the then existing science resources and then to help write a > proposal to > restore accredited science at Antioch. They worked with Development on > it, > and were successful in getting a grant of 2 million from the Howard > Hughes > Medical Institute. But much more would have been necessary to complete > the > proposed plan. But the proposal which went out with their names on it > was very > comprehensive and detailed. > > I talked to Stephen twice about the proposal, the general outline of the > plan, but I am not certain in what order these conversations occurred. > One was > at Reunion where Stephen was given the Horace Mann Award, and another was > when he was in Mpls delivering a lecture, and then did a book signing, and > afterwards I took him out for dessert and coffee. Both of these were > while I was > serving on the Alumni Board, and thus when in YSO, and running into > retired > faculty, I used my Gould conversations as an opener to get people to > reflect > and talk. So in the end I had lots of sources -- and I talked with > another > Antiochian who knew Joann well, and she confirmed that Argetsinger saw > things > very much the same way. > > Yes, it makes a difference if the American Chemical Society decertifies > your > program, particularly if they had flagged it over several reviews, and > provided a detailed list of things that needed fixing. 1985 was no > surprise to > the college, the problems had been building for a decade. They included > lack > of credentialed faculty, poor quality of lab space, equipment, lack of > budget > for supplies, non-current Library materials particularly major journals, > and > lack of appropriate support -- such as the minimalist Math Department > that > would be required to support Chemistry. Physics, Biology and Geology had > the > same fundamental problems. I sincerely believe Guskins tried to > re-build, but > it didn't happen, and after that you could not get a straight answer to a > straight factual question. > > Gould was properly pissed about being used to get the first grants. He > could not even get straight answers as to how money was being spent -- > money he > essentially raised, and used his professional reputation to vouch for in > the > grant process. He gave me names of mutual friends who had tried to > assist, > and had essentially the same experience -- they got used, and then burned. > Retired professors in YSO told me the same thing, and that the kind of > trust > that builds these sorts of relationships was essentially in the gutter. > > Antioch's problem, in my mind, was that it puffed up a vast illusion about > itself, and then fashioned PR around that, and through considerable > coercion, > managed to keep many people talking the same talking points over the > years, to > the point that some otherwise intelligent folk actually believed them, but > many feared the consequences of being identified with anything off > message. > You saw that here today if the analysis is on target -- someone tried to > do > something nasty to someone's employment because a member of this list was > a > critic. You don't like the message, so you shoot the messenger. It is a > nifty > little power play that is all too common around Antioch in the last > decade > or so, and along with the dishonesty illustrated by how Gould was dealt > with, > it is anything but what Antioch Values should be -- and it stinketh. > Moreover it does not rebuild Science Programs nor does it result in > quality tenured > teaching historians. > > So that's my evidence. Once I told people in YSO that I had talked with > Gould about the project to rebuild Science, and what he thought of the > effort to > execute, I just collected more examples and evidence, with pleas not to > attach names to anything I might say. Even today, I won't do that except > for > Gould, because as you know, he died in 2001. I served on the Alumni > Board from > 1988 till 1994, and much of that time I did collect observations of this > sort, which in a naive way I thought might be the basis for advocacy for > change. > It was fairly hopeless. > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/941 - Release Date: 8/7/2007 > 4:06 PM > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 13:14:49 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:28:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >A current student who was at an Antioch meeting in New York last month was an entering student when the Renewal Plan went into effect. She said a third of her class left in the first three weeks because the introduction of the new classes was in such chaos, students didn't know what they were supposed to be doing from one day to the next, faculty were arguing with each other about how to teach, in class in front of students. (I don't mean this to be a knock on the faculty. Of course they were confused themselves and it seems inevitable that sometimes it would come out in front of the students.) You'd have to be an extremely resiliant 18-year-old to stay through something like that. > >Sonia Jaffe Robbins >Antioch College '60-'62, '64 That's fascinating anecdotal support of the Board of Trustee's malfeasance in cramming Revival down the college's throat one year early and without promised financial support. Add a narrowing of the admissions standards down to 'pert near nil by President Lawry and you get the the murder of Antioch College. Alan Benard From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 9 13:28:35 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:42:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> References: <, > <68D8046E-F2F4-4022-BAD1-2E2E5D5D54CC@baya.net> <,> <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: Hello Mr. Mark Pomerantz....someday folks will take on your social entrepreneurship ideas..don't give up.... If you are wanting to know about the precipitous enrollment drop there are multiple reasons..... 1.) The Renewal Commission Presentation happened the same month as the Stablization cuts. 15 folks disapperaed from cuts and attrition.. too much change at once.......along with cuts...and the perception of our own community having less and less control. whether or not the intentions from above and beyond were good or not the perceptions were confusion, anger and anxiety. Some of the college budgeting functions and other functions were taken over by the folks across the street. So students, faculty and staff "felt."..well...disenfranchised and demoralized...... Current students were so disenchanted that they, in fact, told prospective students how they were feeling and that surely added to a small freshman class down the road. No one could figure out a way to solve an additional sibling rivalry... The new freshman seemed to get all the good stuff..the new classrooms, the new dorms...... 2.) Renovation problems. Antioch has had a less than stellar group of contractors and subcontractors. There were some mold problems caused by installation of AC systems in some of the dorms. A lot of money was spent in remediation more than once. Administration showed good will here and just as the second remediation process was finished...and right before reunion...there was an extra flood in Corry (now known as Spalt). The last event was due to crumbling village infrastructure......sewers backing up and causing floods...the College tried getting satisfication.....but the village pulled emiment domain out.. ah.....tis true ya can't sue city hall. 3.) The Renewal plan or the Learning Communities hit the griound a year too soon...... so folks were having to work like crazy but still were flying blind. 4.) Add to the mix our long term ongoing problems of how to create a diverse community.........our students staged POC takeovers..(people of color) .......and some folks have problems dealing with other people's anger. No one in America has solved this yet........we keep on trying...but internal anger over lack of perfection.......does not help the larger community. All in all..it IS better than living in Ward and June Cleaver-land.. 5.) Add to that.....needing more money and humans to provide services...... Even so....with all these problems many students have had deep learning experiences and done things that any of you out there would find awesome. There has and is so much worth saving or fixing...... Gotta go..for now Students are coming in about two weeks..pretty soon...I may hafta be more of a lurker. Don't forget Antiochians.org and all the different funds out there. I just had my picyure taken by Dennie Eagleson for an annual fund letter. Be sure to think about that fund as well..we need everything from toilet paper to tofu..so mark the unrestricted box if you can. From dawn at mediawonk.com Thu Aug 9 13:44:40 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Thu Aug 9 13:58:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Student bulletin board Message-ID: Pam said... "Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, perhaps) to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and what, if anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more about the current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are." Pam, There is a website (antiochians.org) where the majority of discussion concerning the revival is based. I've copied the group who deals with the website because I think you make an interesting point. As to polling students from 00 and forward-I think we're talking about several iterations of the curriculum within that range of dates. The 'current' program is in its infancy, which I learned from the faculty press conference back in June. So I'm not sure you would get quite the data you're interested in. Still I would like to hear from current students and to support them during the coming school year. I would suggest we setup a list for current students not only to post curriculum commentary but any other issues. This could tie into the 'adopt a student' concept as alums could provide support and guidance in that forum. You can view the faculty conference @ http://antiochians.org/category/video/ Best, Dawn '83 From wasb at albany.edu Thu Aug 9 14:13:26 2007 From: wasb at albany.edu (Stephen L. Wasby) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:27:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions References: <175366.14600.qm@web63903.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005101c7dab0$fc321b70$5e761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Part of the answer to the departures w.r.t. first year of Learning Communities appears to be (I base this on a variety of comments made during Work Project time this year, plus some other comments made to me) that many of them came expecting one type of program and found a different program -- which was put into place a year ahead of when originally planned, and there is little question that there were many "rough edges" (an understatement) -- particularly when one is trying to get faculty trained in different fields to talk to each other, and "team teaching" is --believe me-- never an easy enterprise even when people are in the same field. Partial answer, but I hope it helps. Steve Wasby '59 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Fathauer" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions > > --- Mark Pomerantz wrote: > >> It would be useful to find out somehow what was on >> the minds of the large >> number of students that seemed to disappear after >> the Renewal Plan was >> announced. Any way to do this? > > What exactly is it you're asking? > > Why did over 2/3 of the students in the initial year > of the Learning Communities curriculum leave? (i.e. > fall 2005 entering students); or why did students > leave between 2003 and 2005? > > -l > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, > news, photos & more. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/941 - Release Date: 8/7/2007 > 4:06 PM > > From eayres at comcast.net Thu Aug 9 14:13:34 2007 From: eayres at comcast.net (E. Daniel Ayres) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:27:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... Message-ID: <001e01c7dab1$003cf550$00b6dff0$@net> Pam: As far as I know, there never was an "Ed" Wilson on the faculty of Antioch College. "Ev" as he was often called, not necessarily to his face, unfortunately for me, not only looked a bit like my father, but also, when I closed my eyes and listened to his voice, he sounded like my father. Oh, and he was a perfectionist too. If you ever get a choice, don't choose a perfectionist as a father figure :-{ Unfortunately for Antioch, one of the "issues" with Everett's leadership of the faculty, was the amount of work he demanded on issues some, if not the majority, perceived as tangential to their main mission. Others have cited "governance" overhead problems as an endemic issue at Antioch College. Ev Wilson was an unforgiving and harsh task master at times. Doing away with the Faculty Senate (collegial governance of the curriculum) was cited as contributing the eventual decline, but for many, at the time it happened, I suspect, a blessed relief. One of my pet theories about the ongoing decline leading to the present crisis is the old adage, "Too many chiefs, and not enough Indians." Since the emergence of programs which later became the basis for renaming the corporation to Antioch University, there has been a constant and difficult conflict over how to provide titled jobs at the top of the heap for all those who were aggressively seeking them, especially in situations where a particular "power base" was in play. The critique of the Guskin legacy which argues that governance became even more difficult and complex in a situation where efficiency and effective decision-making were required to achieve a focus and a "turn around" has some merit. It will be true that if the BoT gets its way, Antioch 2012 will be reconstituted only after it has been purged of some parts of its complex and often inefficient governance structure and the attendant processes which made it so easy for organized constituencies to be disruptive, and at the same time, tended to cloud issues and preclude from consideration ideas which were seen as threats by any one of the many vocal minorities represented in the various so-called governance structure. The fact that the Antioch process and rhetoric was unique meant that each new generation was being introduced to it by the current incumbents of powerful roles in the process. With turnover endemic, it became very difficult to gain a broad acceptance or commitment to anything. E. Daniel Ayres 734-395-9141 (cell) http://home.comcast.net/~eayres From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 9 14:28:55 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:42:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Yellow Springs tax loss In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Artie Dole...the tax revenue loss to YS will pale when compared to the loss of culture and intellect provided by the faculty and all those wild east and west coast kids. Duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 14:29:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:43:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sun Aug 19 Ann Arbor / Detroit / Toldeo Alumni Meeting Message-ID: SAVE THE DATE! SAVE THE DATE! When: 12:30-3 p.m., Aug. 19, 2007 Where: Pittsfield Township Administration Building, 6201 W. Michigan Ave., Ann Arbor MI 48108 - corner of Platt & Michigan See a Map - 1/2 mi. west of US-23 exit 34, one exit south of I-94 junction - enter from Platt or Michigan Who: MI and Northwest OH Antiochians and Friends of Antioch What: Aug. 17-19 Nationwide Support the College Weekend Why: Get updates on the campus closure crisis. Learn what happened, why it happened and what is being done. Jone fellow alumnae. Get involved. Give support. Send a message to the University Board of Trustees. JOIN HORACE'S POSSE! BE ASHAMED TO LET IT DIE! For further information, RSVP or email questions to Laurie White lauriewhite AT eyedream1world.com [From a postcard I received yesterday] From sjr5 at nyu.edu Thu Aug 9 14:32:23 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:45:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: August 16 Web "seminar" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just checked the antioch-college.edu/alumni page for info about how to access the Web presentation on August 16, and there is no info except for the time. Shouldn't there be a Web link URL, at the very least? Does anyone have any details about the presentation? Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." From matt at baya.net Thu Aug 9 14:42:05 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:50:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: August 16 Web "seminar" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E0F44B1-1647-45E8-8974-632F8B54E867@baya.net> No details yet that I've been able to find out about. I've been trying to politely ask what the technical requirements will be for this since I suspect that it will require broadband and I'm also worried that it might require a certain operating system or proprietary software to participate. If we're given some advance notice on this it's possible that alumni without those requirements could meet places where they could view this together. I was told that some more info might be up by the end of the week, so stay tuned I guess. -Matt On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Sonia Jaffe Robbins wrote: > I just checked the antioch-college.edu/alumni page for info about > how to access the Web presentation on August 16, and there is no > info except for the time. Shouldn't there be a Web link URL, at the > very least? Does anyone have any details about the presentation? > > Sonia Jaffe Robbins > Antioch College '60-'62, '64 > sjr5@nyu.edu > srobbins@reedbusiness.com > http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting > http://www.neww.org > http://www.nwu.org > ******************* > "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From pas0705 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 9 14:39:13 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:52:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: <005101c7dab0$fc321b70$5e761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Message-ID: <120151.35006.qm@web63913.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- "Stephen L. Wasby" wrote: > Part of the answer to the departures w.r.t. first > year of Learning > Communities appears to be ( that > many of them came expecting one type of program and > found a different > program -- An article in a Fall 06 record states that a survey was done of the 05 entering class and found that over 50% of them were unaware of the curricular changes upon arrival to campus. -laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 9 14:39:36 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Thu Aug 9 14:53:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ev wilson's article Message-ID: Anyone wishing to read Ev Wilson's article from Social Froces, email me and I will send you an attachment with a pdf file of it. I've sent it twice to the list but it hasn't posted so I assume attachments aren't allowed. Sandy Coulter Library Assistant / Serials/Audio-visuals/Jill-of-all-Trades :) Antioch College Library Yellow Springs, OH 45387-1694 (937)769-1235 scoulter@antioch-college.edu "Don't Fall Down! That's the whole key." Joe Cali From lucy.wollin at verizon.net Thu Aug 9 14:59:43 2007 From: lucy.wollin at verizon.net (lwollin) Date: Thu Aug 9 15:14:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker References: Message-ID: <005701c7dab7$7308dee0$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> Ah. Okay. "Never mind" Emily Latella ----- Original Message ----- From: "bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker > "Lunatic fringe"? Who are they? The ones who don't want Antioch College to > close? You mean the alumni who've been around for a few decades and might > actually have wanted to donate money to help solve the problems? Good > idea. > > Luce, > > I was being facetious by suggesting that the manner in which > Board/University PR has been framing those opposed to the closing -- > faculty ("cleansing the ghosts"), students ("toxic culture"), alums ("they > can't possibly raise $40 million") and friends of the College alike -- is > that they must be some kind of "lunatic fringe" because they can't see the > "straightforward" logic of financial exigency. I was expecting the public > meeting on the 25th to be an exercise in frustration, particularly since > the agenda specifically excludes discussion of reversing or revisiting the > Board decision, and that the ensuing interaction would make the image of > the "unreasonableness" of those who seek to keep the College open. > > Bob > > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 15:03:12 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 15:16:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3bda85ccc93c7787b1d414c6ac56cd38@www.antiochians.org> Shhhh! I have a reputation to uphold. >Thanks, Travis. > >You're sweet. > >Deb > >>Deb, >> >>I am sorry that this issue has reached your workplace and restricted your freedom to participate. If someone torpedoed you I am very sorry and that person is an asshole regardless of their position on Antioch. On the other hand it could be possible that your system administrator noticed a lot of log time to the forum or that you received so many through the forum e-mails that they were detected as spam etc. >> >>Not knowing the context or content of your comments or Bob Devine's I can not say anything about the libel issue except that everyone should allow a wider degree of latitude during times of emotional duress and political turmoil such as the closing of Antioch College. >> >>Again, my apologies that your private life has been thrust into your public life. >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Travis From eayres at comcast.net Thu Aug 9 15:05:27 2007 From: eayres at comcast.net (E. Daniel Ayres) Date: Thu Aug 9 15:19:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... In-Reply-To: <00c401c7dab2$6a965760$5e761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> References: <001e01c7dab1$003cf550$00b6dff0$@net> <00c401c7dab2$6a965760$5e761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Message-ID: <002b01c7dab8$3f850bb0$be8f2310$@net> Steve: That must have been after my time. I rented a room from the guy who was head of the AHA for a semester in 1963-4, but I don't think his name was Ed. I believe he left YSO in 1964 or 1965. I'm having trouble remembering at the moment. What I do remember is how much beer we made in the basement. We went over to Comm's Restaurant and got 42 cases of empty quart Budweiser bottles during start-up. One spectacular "bad batch" got inoculated with just a little bit too much sugar before bottling and blew up a flawed bottle. It took us two days to get all the beer and glass shards cleaned up. It was a good thing we had sense enough to put the freshly bottled cases on shelves inside built-in basement cupboards. That way when a bottle blew up, chain reactions were less likely. Unfortunately, practically every bottle in a batch of 10 gallons was under the same extreme pressure at the same time. We were always invited to pick-up softball games that year. On the back porch was an extra old refrigerator which did nothing but cool home brew, and we used to take at least a case or two to any game we attended. By the 7th inning, grounders sometimes rolled to the outfield fence. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen L. Wasby [mailto:wasb@albany.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:24 PM To: eayres@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... A very quick note: There was an "Ed" Wilson in town -- but he was the head of the American Humanist Association (which had a building --no longer theirs, I gather-- on Xenia Ave.). I noticed the "Ed"/Ev mistake, too. Steve Wasby ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Daniel Ayres" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 15:05:51 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 15:19:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Sun Aug 19 Ann Arbor / Detroit / Toldeo Alumni Meeting In-Reply-To: <7E0F44B1-1647-45E8-8974-632F8B54E867@baya.net> Message-ID: <9d0bfbb949b7378224a531fb935e5c3e@www.antiochians.org> Am I being unhelpfully negative and paranoid to suggest a) incompetence and/or b) malfeasance? >No details yet that I've been able to find out about. I've been >trying to politely ask what the technical requirements will be for >this since I suspect that it will require broadband and I'm also >worried that it might require a certain operating system or >proprietary software to participate. > >If we're given some advance notice on this it's possible that alumni >without those requirements could meet places where they could view >this together. I was told that some more info might be up by the end >of the week, so stay tuned I guess. > >-Matt > >On Aug 9, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Sonia Jaffe Robbins wrote: > >>I just checked the antioch-college.edu/alumni page for info about >>how to access the Web presentation on August 16, and there is no >>info except for the time. Shouldn't there be a Web link URL, at the >>very least? Does anyone have any details about the presentation? >> >>Sonia Jaffe Robbins >>Antioch College '60-'62, '64 >>sjr5@nyu.edu >>srobbins@reedbusiness.com >>http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting >>http://www.neww.org >>http://www.nwu.org >>******************* >>"Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." From aadole at adelphia.net Thu Aug 9 18:10:01 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Thu Aug 9 15:23:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/9/07 7:13 AM, "Pam Olsen" wrote: > Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, perhaps) > to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and what, if > anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more about the > current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. > > > By all means, Pam. I for one much appreciate the voices of current students, faculty, staff, as they appear on this chat. As an old geezer, I am reminded of the Antiochs I have seen since 1937! A few snapshots. In 1937 I transferred from Harvard. The instruction at Antioch was superior in quality, depth and stimulation. The co-op plan transformed me from a professional waiter to a psychologist. (I will resist the temptation to expand.) My parents hated it, partly because my thinking did not duplicate theirs. In 1946-8 I returned after the war years. The place was booming, exciting; the g.i's were exceptional. McGregor stimulated a campus wide interest in a new specialty--group process. Yes, there was also free love,faculty-student sex, lots of alcohol, and a snifter of communism. As a faculty member, I discovered that some of my former teachers were human. In 1967-75 when I returned for reunions was appalled by a deteriorating scene, suddenly enlarged student body, the strike, the branch plan. My son Steve enrolled, then complained of big classes, rampant drug abuse, robberies in his dorm, etc. He left for Ohio State. The branch campus in Philly, I heard from its students, was a shoddy rip-off. In 1982-4 my daughter Barbara transferred from College of the Atlantic. She loved her small classes, the faculty, and the co-op plan; she continued on to her doctorate well prepared. The administration looked competent. >From 1985-91--I was somewhat troubled by negative national publicity, by reports from faculty friends of incompetent administrators, low salaries, trashed dorms. None of the high school seniors whom I encouraged to visit enrolled. In 1992-5 because Marj was on the Alumni Board, I visited Yellow Springs periodically. I recognized that Antioch had serious problems with physical plant, with faculty pay, and with its relations to the University, but the academic and co-op programs, Antioch Abroad, seemed to be progressing. The administration looked competent,the endowment was growing, and the students were interesting and intellectually curious. In recent years--Because I felt very strongly (as an academic) that the University was hurting the College, I joined the Antioch Independence struggle. Our efforts were ignored. And I was depressed by the turnovers in faculty and administration. Of course, Antioch College has changed--many times--over the years. But I sense from the comments on this chat that it was and is a very special place. If it survives, it will change again. I hope for the better, From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 15:28:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 15:42:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB Proposal for Governance and Fundraising Message-ID: <7a9ee4b87dbe7524364840d7879eec87@antiochians.org> Antioch College Alumni Association A Proposal for Governance and Fundraising to the University Board of Trustees 2007 - 2008 August 8, 2007 I. Introduction This proposal was written by a group of alumni on behalf of the Board of Directors of the Antioch College Alumni Association to be presented to the University Board of Trustees in advance of its emergency meeting to be held in Cincinnati, Ohio on August 25-27, 2007. This document represents the alumni commitment to secure the future of Antioch College as an undergraduate, residential, liberal arts college, on its historic campus in Yellow Springs. This is a good faith effort to save Antioch College. We call upon the University Board of Trustees and all those who care about the College and its unique place in American higher education to assist us with the efforts outlined in this proposal. Remembering the legacy inherited from Horace Mann, Arthur Morgan, and countless others, we assert that Antioch College, having faced financial adversity many times throughout its history, will again thrive... http://antiochians.org/ http://antiochians.org/antiochdocs/AB-Documents/AB_Governance-Fundraising_Proposal.pdf From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 15:34:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 15:48:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: >It would be useful to find out somehow what was on the minds of the large >number of students that seemed to disappear after the Renewal Plan was >announced. Any way to do this? Mark, The loss of significant numbers of students was not due merely to the Renewal Plan itself hitting the first-years, but there was also a decision made to allow for students to graduate early by changing co-op credits to classroom credits. Not sure how it worked exactly, but students could graduate with three co-ops if they had the extra academic credits. My graduating class in 2005 was 80+, and one of the larger in recent times, but it was dwarfed by the 2006 class on 130 or so. That's a lot of tuition to try to clean out to make the Renewal Plan work faster. From sulogsc at verizon.net Thu Aug 9 15:52:52 2007 From: sulogsc at verizon.net (sulogsc) Date: Thu Aug 9 16:06:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... References: <001e01c7dab1$003cf550$00b6dff0$@net> Message-ID: <008d01c7dabe$e00cdfd0$0201a8c0@pavilion> And in getting rid of a hard task-master, thus beginneth the decline of a respected college. I was and remain a Garrison Keiler English Major, with a bit of Stephen's Soc. thrown in, but I managed to do OK with Ev. Sue GSC - 1950 ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Daniel Ayres" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... > Pam: > > > > As far as I know, there never was an "Ed" Wilson on the faculty of Antioch > College. "Ev" as he was often called, not necessarily to his face, > unfortunately for me, not only looked a bit like my father, but also, when > I > closed my eyes and listened to his voice, he sounded like my father. Oh, > and he was a perfectionist too. > > > > If you ever get a choice, don't choose a perfectionist as a father figure > :-{ > > > > Unfortunately for Antioch, one of the "issues" with Everett's leadership > of > the faculty, was the amount of work he demanded on issues some, if not the > majority, perceived as tangential to their main mission. Others have > cited > "governance" overhead problems as an endemic issue at Antioch College. > Ev > Wilson was an unforgiving and harsh task master at times. Doing away with > the Faculty Senate (collegial governance of the curriculum) was cited as > contributing the eventual decline, but for many, at the time it happened, > I > suspect, a blessed relief. > > > > One of my pet theories about the ongoing decline leading to the present > crisis is the old adage, "Too many chiefs, and not enough Indians." Since > the emergence of programs which later became the basis for renaming the > corporation to Antioch University, there has been a constant and difficult > conflict over how to provide titled jobs at the top of the heap for all > those who were aggressively seeking them, especially in situations where a > particular "power base" was in play. The critique of the Guskin legacy > which argues that governance became even more difficult and complex in a > situation where efficiency and effective decision-making were required to > achieve a focus and a "turn around" has some merit. It will be true that > if the BoT gets its way, Antioch 2012 will be reconstituted only after it > has been purged of some parts of its complex and often inefficient > governance structure and the attendant processes which made it so easy for > organized constituencies to be disruptive, and at the same time, tended to > cloud issues and preclude from consideration ideas which were seen as > threats by any one of the many vocal minorities represented in the various > so-called governance structure. The fact that the Antioch process and > rhetoric was unique meant that each new generation was being introduced to > it by the current incumbents of powerful roles in the process. With > turnover endemic, it became very difficult to gain a broad acceptance or > commitment to anything. > > > > E. Daniel Ayres > > 734-395-9141 (cell) > > http://home.comcast.net/~eayres > > > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 16:12:11 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 16:25:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB Proposal for Governance and Fundraising In-Reply-To: <7a9ee4b87dbe7524364840d7879eec87@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <7304935fc4b77be3461f1ca40aa1dafe@antiochians.org> >Antioch College Alumni Association > >A Proposal for Governance and Fundraising >to the University Board of Trustees > > >http://antiochians.org/antiochdocs/AB-Documents/AB_Governance-Fundraising_Proposal.pdf Plain text version: http://antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=28690#p28690 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 16:17:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 16:30:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <005701c7dab7$7308dee0$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> Message-ID: <72a1a3b4f35429a049cfe88ad3f1134c@www.antiochians.org> Questions to Barbara: Q: "Is there a time stop point where we cannot reverse the minds of the BOT and need to revert to legal action?" A: Barb not optimistic about this BOT changing its mind feels they are not a Board she recognizes anymore, and will not say they made a mistake. from the nyc chapter meeting on 8/6 I am guessing that Barbara knows the AUBoT better than anyone else right now given her years of service with them. She was in the room, part of the discussions. She is more or less proving what a lot of us believed all along. I urge the AB to step-up the backgrounding to hire a firm for the legal fight to come. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 16:24:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 16:38:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <005701c7dab7$7308dee0$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> Message-ID: Every one should read Barbara Winslow's comments in the NYC Chapter meeting minutes: Questions to Barbara: Q: "Is there a time stop point where we cannot reverse the minds of the BOT and need to revert to legal action?" A: Barb not optimistic about this BOT changing its mind feels they are not a Board she recognizes anymore, and will not say they made a mistake. I think that means that now is the time for legal action, at least the preliminary steps of retaining counsel. Gerry, with the way the selection process for the 8/25 mtg has gone I do not think the AUBoT thinks the momentum has really shifted against them. Moreover I imagine that Toni and the PR firm are just telling them to look at the long term believing that most ad-hoc movements like ours lose steam. I am writing to them individually again, this time not to tell them how much the college means to me but how their arrogance, intransagince and collaboration with the AU Administration will guarntee nothing but ill-will from me and mine for all eternity. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 16:35:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 16:49:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7b2e5879dbcae8ed20627ca80c4d472c@antiochians.org> >Gerry, with the way the selection process for the 8/25 mtg has gone I do not think the AUBoT thinks the momentum has really shifted against them. Moreover I imagine that Toni and the PR firm are just telling them to look at the long term believing that most ad-hoc movements like ours lose steam. > >I am writing to them individually again, this time not to tell them how much the college means to me but how their arrogance, intransagince and collaboration with the AU Administration will guarntee nothing but ill-will from me and mine for all eternity. As Matt Baya pointed out when I rejoined the Alumni Chat, I drove out of Yellow Springs in 1992 having asked the alumni office to delete my record precisely because I was pissed about how the university was treating the college. I've been pissed for 15 years and in the past two months I have developed an anger which will easily last for the rest of my life. I am not going away. Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 17:59:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (PJ (planetjunque@sbcglobal.net)) Date: Thu Aug 9 18:12:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] United States Air Force Joins the Looting In-Reply-To: <35cc0ac5a73f02902bb375debbd2bd63@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <348308500b870cb35db26f1cf02ab0bb@antiochians.org> "Please note that Dave Boyer works for General Dynamics and is seeking to build and office building next door the the new McGregor facility". Where did the above information come from please? Is there a reference anywhere? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 20:27:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Foster (foster.neill@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 20:40:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, perhaps) >to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and what, if >anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more about the >current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. Just graduated this Spring '07. There are no strengths to the current program. The college should revert back to the program in place before the Renewal. Students are often unsatisfied and unchallenged in their first year 'core' classes. Furthermore, the 'core' classes limit the students to one essentially one class per term without much time for anything else. Also, since 'core' classes are worth 16 credits, only first years can take them, effectively creating a distance between the incoming class and the current student body, much to the community's demise. I loved the community at Antioch. The people there put everyone else I know to shame. I loved my most of my professors, only wish there were more. The food was less than good, but the I loved the people working in the Caf. I loved the beat up dorms, the rough, natural look of the campus, the 'real' feeling that permeated throughout. I firmly believe that more professors, more kitchens and common rooms and necessary modern equipment will make AC an extremely viable, attractive, and successful college very quickly. Students leave for lots of reasons, but it would only take a few little reasons to get them to stay. Foster Neill '07 From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 20:56:06 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 21:05:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] coming into the discussion late Message-ID: Gerry, I can appreciate how frustrating it must be to have us come lately and then disappear. Thanks for showing me the pattern. I often work late, and so didn't hear the announcement on NPR when it first happened, and heard about it way late. Antioch isn't exactly big news in Idaho, and why my Antioch friends didn't tell me, I dunno. I just happened to have an 81 year old client who knew I went there, and saw a tiny little article in the paper. Anyway, I'm not disappearing, unless I have to in order to get some sleep! I'm still losing sleep over this. Before I heard about Antioch, I was going through somewhat of a depression about the world in general. I am so concerned about global warming, the war, our health care, our shrinking middle class, the war in Iraq, the mess the world is in, so many things that never should have happened, and I keep thinking, "The world is going to the dogs!" and then I have to remind myself that every generation feels this way. But man, when I responded to George Will, and painted a picture of what the world would be like if Antiochians had their way, it looked good! We'd have developed alternative energy sources DECADES ago, literally, possibly mitigating global warming in the first place. We'd have had universal health care long ago, we'd have more Head Start Centers and fewer prisons, we would have senators and congressmen who don't sell their souls to Big Business,the war in Iraq never would have been started. In fact, Al Qaeda might never have hated us in the first place, and so on. The tragedy is (IMHO) all of these things will eventually get cleared up BECAUSE THEY'RE THE RIGHT THING TO DO!, but in the conservative tradition of too little too late. It makes me sick. And then to be maligned because we're so liberal. gads! The world doesn't make any sense! Antioch has changed with the times, and i think it's hard for some of us to not move into that "Antioch is going to the dogs" mentality. Anyway, I'm surprised at how much I care about the place, and also pleased with how much energy everyone is putting into saving it. I still wish everyone could work together, but I don't run the world. So I'm just going to keep trying to see everyone's point of view, and hope for the best. When kids like Kelly come up with a plan like she did, with such a sense of humor, I know that the Antioch soul hasn't changed a whole lot, if any. And the fantasy of living in a senior apartment on the golf course, when I'm 80, and having Antiochians around, and all the mental stimulation of campus life, is just such a fun fantasy. I dunno if it will ever happen, but the thought makes me smile. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 21:09:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Thu Aug 9 21:23:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: <001f01c7daa8$3ba839f0$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Message-ID: <2f52c475325e04ee9cc2450d4f59eba6@www.antiochians.org> Gould was properly pissed about being used to get the first grants. He could not even get straight answers as to how money was being spent -- money he essentially raised, and used his professional reputation to vouch for in the grant process. He gave me names of mutual friends who had tried to assist, and had essentially the same experience -- they got used, and then burned. Retired professors in YSO told me the same thing, and that the kind of trust that builds these sorts of relationships was essentially in the gutter. Antioch's problem, in my mind, was that it puffed up a vast illusion about itself, and then fashioned PR around that, and through considerable coercion, managed to keep many people talking the same talking points over the years, to the point that some otherwise intelligent folk actually believed them, but many feared the consequences of being identified with anything off message. You saw that here today if the analysis is on target -- someone tried to do something nasty to someone's employment because a member of this list was a critic. You don't like the message, so you shoot the messenger. It is a nifty little power play that is all too common around Antioch in the last decade or so, and along with the dishonesty illustrated by how Gould was dealt with, it is anything but what Antioch Values should be -- and it stinketh. Moreover it does not rebuild Science Programs nor does it result in quality tenured teaching historians. Sally, I know a different version of this story, also from talking with Stephen. Not necessarily the true story, just a different set of anecdotes, conversations and hearsay. I'd like to glean some insight into this sort of storytelling from Stephen's own work: "Stories, in other words, only 'go' in a limited number of strongly preferred ways, with the two deepest requirements invoking, first, a theme of directionality (linked events proceeding in an ordered sequence for definable reasons, and not as an aimless wandering -- back, forth, and sideways -- to nowhere); and second, a sense of motivation, or definite reasons propelling the sequence (whether we judge the outcomes good or bad). These motivations will be rooted directly in human purposes for stories involving our own species. But tales about nonconscious creatures or inanimate objects must also provide a surrogate for valor (or dishonorable intent for dystopian tales) -- as in the virtue of evolutionary principles that dictate the increasingly general complexity of life, or the lamentable inexorability of thermodynamics in guaranteeing the eventual burnout of the sum. In summary, and at the risk of oversimplification, we like to explain pattern in terms of directionality, and causation in terms of valor. The two central and essential components of any narrative -- pattern and cause -- therefore fall under the biasing rubric of our mental premises. ... I will refer to the small set of primal tales based upon these deep requirements as 'canonical stories.' ..... In other words, and to summarize my principal theme in a phrase, canonical stories predictably 'drive' facts into definite and distorted pathways that validate the outlines and necessary components of these archetypal tales. We therefore fail to note important items in plain sight, while we misread other facts by forcing them into preset mental channels, even when we retain a buried memory of actual events." Stephen Jay Gould, "Jim Bowie's Letter and Bill Buckner's Legs," I Have Landed: The End of a Beginning in Natural History. New York: Harmony Books, 2001. Bob From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 21:18:10 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 21:27:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] rigorous academics Message-ID: Interesting that the Renewal plan was trying to help mitigate the sink or swim mentality. I have to say, after my very negative post about academics there, that there were some highlights for me. One was in Louis Filler's course, when he turned me on to "primary sources," and had us reading dialogues between Benjamin Franklin and the Queen of England. I had always hated history. No more. And I've like Benj. ever since! so that "original text" thing is certainly something I can see. One of the things I inherited from my dearly departed, Peter Mikuliak ('67), was his set of books (many sets of books) The Annals of America. There are 20 in the set, and I'm actually reading them, thanks to Louis Filler (whom I didn't like as a person, but so what?) I loved my courses from Stanly Garn. I was intriqued with the way he thought, and how he modeled it in class. (He commented to me one day, "You're the only person in this class who sits in a different place every time."). I did my thesis on a taxonomy of fossil man, and knew every single fossil that had been discovered til that time. It was great fun. I loved reading The Plague, and The Republic, and Thucidides. They blew my mind and opened up worlds to me. I loved my geology courses. When I took paleontology, I actually dreamed about a different phylum every week. I really enjoyed Primitive Religions (but the exam was such that it was the first time in my life I wanted to get up and walk out). I mean there were highlights. What frustrated me is that no matter how much I studied or how much I learned, I almost always got Cs (a totally new experience for me) mostly because my papers were late (ADHD takes the adrenalin of anxiety to get the brain functioning, which, of course, I didn't know then--if only I had taken speed like everyone else, I'd have been fine, but I was too "good" and honest to do such a thing.) My grades didn't reflect anything about what I was learning, I didn't think. I mean, I could have majored in education or languages and gotten As, but I wanted to learn new things. And so I paid the price in my grades and my self-esteem, while i saw students much more sophisticated in the ways of the world than I taking courses in which they knew the subject matter so they could get their As and get into grad school. Or they simply dropped the course if they weren't doing well, so it wouldn't show up on their transcript. I went in to change registration in my fourth or fifth year, and asked how to do it, and the registrar almost fell off her chair. "You're fourth year and you've never changed registration: That's gotta be a first." Pam From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 21:28:30 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 21:38:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] The First Year Program Message-ID: As for no strtucture during the First year program, you misunderstand. Students had the option of doing a traditional program of courses if they wanted to. Or they had the option of independent study, or a combination. They were not more likely to drop out. On the contrary, they were just as likely to stay and do well, and in fact did better in some ways. I had my doubts, too, but data is data. Different people learn in different ways. I think that one reason i did better at Duquesne is that I'm more of an auditory and experiential learner (hence did well on my jobs, and I STILL draw on things I learned in those jobs, 40 years later) than a visual learner. In courses there, I learned mostly by taking several courses by a particular professor and listening to how he thought. THEN I could hit the books and make sense of them. When evaluating different approaches, I think it's important to look at actual data. It's probably the biggest thing I learned at Duquesne. Just because data doesn't fit your theory, you can't just throw it out. You need to come up with a new theory that takes ALL of your data into account. And there were other parts of my post where I think I made a case for more structure, not less, as far as building knowledge in one's field. But more structure doesn't necessarily mean ten books instead of six. And reading ten books instead of six doesn't necessarily mean that one learns more. The point is, students are not all the same, and it doesn't mean they're not equally bright, or equally deserving of a good education. From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 21:43:00 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 21:52:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] student list Message-ID: Thanks for the info Dawn and others. I had no idea the curriculum had gone through so many changes in such a short time. Sigh. The students and faculty who hang in there through all this, well, we gotta admire and thank them. From lrpjak at verizon.net Thu Aug 9 21:56:35 2007 From: lrpjak at verizon.net (L Powsner) Date: Thu Aug 9 22:12:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] 11 Reasons In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You are so cool Kelly. Thanks for what you're doing. I haven't watched the movies yet, but I love my button! Laurie -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Kelly O'Keefe Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:27 PM To: Alumni Chat List Subject: [Alumni-chat] 11 Reasons Hello Everyone! For those just tuning in, I have wonderfully amazing items for sale, which directly benefit the movement to save our college in several ways! The Antioch Adventure DVD $25 The Antioch Adventure 2 DVD $25 Homemade Antioch Buttons $2 I made the buttons myself, each one unique and colorful. Email me for more information and ordering. Here's 11 reasons why they help: 1. The donations go to either the Antioch Alumni Association College Revival Fund or the Faculty Legal Fund, at your discretion. 2. The buttons are fall couture fashionwear, and it shows those who see you wearing it that you support Antioch. It can raise awareness and curiosity. 3. You may run into an Antiochian on the street who spies your button, wherever you are, and you can say "hi." Fun! 4. 80 buttons can be an armor suit. 5. It's a memento of where you're from, that you can keep for keeps. 6. The Antioch Adventure never gets old, and perhaps you'd like to do a fundraiser showing it, like I did. 7. Purchasing items from a current student is very encouraging to them, and shows that you support them. (me) 8. It's a good way to help the movement from your living room. 9. Singing along with the movies will make you happy, laughing at them will exercise you, and the teeny tear at the end will remind you what the legacy of Antioch really is. 10. Both movies have a zillion people in them, so you can pause the movie and make fun of your friends who were in it. 10. When we do win our college back, you can shine your button and feel proud. I'm co-oping right now, in the Olive Kettering Library on campus, and I've really been in the thick of the tornado this term. Through all of the ups and downs of the past few months, I have hope. I love my college, and I'm working my hardest to keep it for students like you and me, 20, 50 and 70 years from now. (2 closings) In Solidarity, Sock it to 'em, Kelly O'Keefe '08 kokeefe@antioch-college.edu _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From theodora at imbris.com Thu Aug 9 22:14:29 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Thu Aug 9 22:24:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Ev Wilson and too many chiefs. Message-ID: Thanks, Dan, for the reminder. I do remember now, Everett.. Your post reminds me of the Democratic Party. They're lambasted for not being organized, not getting a clear vision, having a clear platform, and so forth. But in my mind, the reason they don't is that they support the idea of independent thinking. It's part and parcel of the spirit of the organization. I think the same is true of Antioch. We are so many individualistic individuals. How can we ever get it together? And yet we must. So far, I haven't heard anything that convinces me that we have to throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't know a lot about management, but I think it's kinda basic that if you don't give the people with the bulk of the responsibility the bulk of the power, then problems ensue. Sounds like that's what happened with the Renewal program. When I was a part of the discussions at the Inner college, I also worked for Sam Baskin in the office of the Union for Research and Experimentation in Higher Education. Remember Sam? I met him on a plane one time and he asked me how I liked my Antioch experience so far, and I let loose about grades, etc....having wanted to get the co-op with him at one point. I finished my tirade thinking, "well, there goes that coop" and when we got off the plane, he said, "When you get back to campus, come talk to me about that job." anyway...he had me do a lot of reading. the research showed that the best education comes out of students going through the process of thinking through the issues and creating. The Inner College was best for the kids who created the Inner College, because they had to thinkk things through so much in order to create it. The college plan is going to work best, in my humble opinion, if it's created by the people who are going to be doing it. It's not going to be so wonderful, I would guess, if it's created by a distance administration, working from theory, and trying something new because it sounds good on paper. I used to teach Navajo kids. One of the greater challenges in my life. we had no appropriate text books, and they didn't know what they were supposed to know, and so we pretty much had to write our own lesson plans and come up with our own approaches, in a culture that doesn't have a practice ethic, and with kids whose favorite sport was being mean to teachers. And I would sit down with myself and come up with some grand plan about how to do this or that, and go into class with some fantasy about how it would all work, and I would say to my class, "from now on we're going to do thus and such," and it would take about five minutes for me to find out that it wasn't going to work. And I would do something that was more related to where they were at, instead. I often thought to myself, "consistency is supposed to be important with kids. I'm not consistent, I'm doing bad things, I'm bad for these kids." But I eventually figured out that I was modeling for them how to find one's way. One day Dennis said to me, "Pam Olsen, you're a no good teacher!" Well, to be honest, he said that almost every day. And one day I finally said back to him, "I know, Dennis, but you know what? I'm working really hard to get better, and if you'll work just as hard to be a better student, we'll do just fine." He gave me a funny look and settled in. In two years, he learned four years worth of work. And more importantly, perhaps, he learned that I loved him. Working together, with respect for each other's ideas and situations seems to me to be of the essence. When you get right down to it, none of us is an expert. We're all just trying to find our way in a maze of a messy and probematic world. And if we stop responding to that world and to each other, then, I think, we've lost the essence of Antioch. Operationally, I don't really know what that means. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 9 22:21:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (casselli87 (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Thu Aug 9 22:35:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Respose of Lapierre referring to the webinar and the Cinci Meeting Message-ID: <60de651078e56eab080c4bce567405f8@www.antiochians.org> Michael: My apologies. We are having trouble. The University web server has been up and down so many times in the last week, that I have lost count. Therefore with advice from our IT people, we have had to contract for the webcast with an outside vendor. We did our beta testing yesterday and hope to have instructions for people up on the website, very very soon. We have also had trouble finding a location with enough space and ease of access in Cincinnati at this late date. We hope to have the final visit and decisons made with the contracts signed very soon. Please know we are trying very hard with a very small and limited staff. All info will go up on the College website at www.antioch-college.edu as soon as we know it ourselves. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 9 22:24:51 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 9 22:38:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Respose of Lapierre referring to the webinar and theCinci Meet In-Reply-To: <60de651078e56eab080c4bce567405f8@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: $10,000 a day of crisis management PR consulting and they leave it to the college staff and cant even rent space in Cinci... money well spent toni, money well spent. Shit... I would have screwed up for her and left it to her suffering staff for about... meh... $200 a day. > >Michael: My apologies. We are having trouble. The University web server >has been up and down so many times in the last week, that I have lost >count. Therefore with advice from our IT people, we have had to contract >for the webcast with an outside vendor. We did our beta testing yesterday >and hope to have instructions for people up on the website, very very soon. > >We have also had trouble finding a location with enough space and ease of >access in Cincinnati at this late date. We hope to have the final visit >and decisons made with the contracts signed very soon. Please know we are >trying very hard with a very small and limited staff. All info will go up >on the College website at www.antioch-college.edu as soon as we know it >ourselves. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 10 04:22:09 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 10 04:31:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles Message-ID: "And in getting rid of a hard task-master, thus beginneth the decline of a respected college. I was and remain a Garrison Keiler English Major, with a bit of Stephen's Soc. thrown in, but I managed to do OK with Ev. Sue GSC - 1950" Sue, with all due respect to you and Luci (and Howard, wherever he's gone), I'm really glad you enjoyed Antioch's courses as they were then. In the 50-60 years since then, however, we have learned a great deal about the brain and learning styles. As a result, education from Kindergarten on up has changed dramatically (even in the best of schools), because not everyone learns in the same way. do you really want to just throw out everything science has learned about learning in those 50-60 years? somehow, it seems to me, that that is absolutely counter to Antioch's tradition of going with new discoveries and innovating accordingly. Time just doesn't stand still. I miss the 50s too in some ways. But we can't go back. Maybe Ollie Loud would concur with you. If so, then I'm confused about what constituted science at Antioch. Antioch's program worked extremely well for some students. Some students can devour and integrate the contents of 30 books a quarter, while also writing six papers and taking six exams (which is the workload we typically had when I was there), and deal with all the social stuff at Antioch, too. More power to them. I might be able to do it now, but I didn't have the tools then to know how to superficially scan a book and pick up the essence of it, and then critique it. I just didn't know how, and nobody at Antioch seemed to want to teach that, they just wanted it done. I eventually learned that to critique meant learning to trust my own mind and my own experience, and that takes knowing oneself. How do you teach that. I learned it in therapy. I don't know where other people learn it. I enjoyed some of my courses, and I wouldn't call them easy. But there are and were ways the program could have been improved. Change does not necessarily equate with decline, and amount of work does not necessarily equate with quality of learning. And today's students are not the same as they were in the 50s, and the problems they are going to have to address in their lives are not the same as the ones we faced. The sheer quantity of knowledge changes so fast now, that it might be more important for them to learn process and analytic skills, rather than "covering" a certain amount of material. When I was teaching my Navajo kids, I had two goals for them that I kept forever in my mind: I wanted them to learn that learning is fun, and I wanted them to learn to be responsible for their own learning. Trying to figure out how to get those two things across to them was very interesting. What Antioch taught me is that every experience in life is an opportunity to learn, and the world is my school. I research everything I do, whether it be organic gardening or quilting or canning or testing a learning disabled client or designing a house or recovering from cancer or aging as well as possible. Nothing escapes my analytic researching mind, and it's not always learning from books, sometimes it's learning from observation and analysis. It's just a way of life for me. It makes life very interesting. And somehow, I credit Antioch for that, not the courses so much, but the ever-challenging and stimulating atmosphere, along with the idea that real life experience and book learning should go hand in hand and that learning should be relevant. If we can pass all that on to future students, I'd be very happy. I don't think they have to read 30 books a quarter to learn those things. But if they want to and can, great! Let them at it. Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 11:00:31 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 11:14:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And in getting rid of a hard task-master, thus beginneth the decline of a respected college. I was and remain a Garrison Keiler English Major, with a bit of Stephen's Soc. thrown in, but I managed to do OK with Ev. Sue GSC - 1950" Sue, with all due respect to you and Luci (and Howard, wherever he's gone), I'm really glad you enjoyed Antioch's courses as they were then. In the 50-60 years since then, however, we have learned a great deal about the brain and learning styles. As a result, education from Kindergarten on up has changed dramatically (even in the best of schools), because not everyone learns in the same way. Thanks for mentioning learning styles- I have to say that as a hands-on learner, who was not motivated by grades, a more traditional college would have meant nothing to me. I was a National Merit Semifinalist, and in the gifted program my whole academic career, yet with medium grades in things I wasn't interested in, and NOT interested in competition nor grade point averages or anything. When I came to Antioch, I didn't want the grades, I found them meaningless. I worked MUCH harder against my internal yardstick than I ever did in a grade driven system And I graduated in 4 years, with a double major, and 6 co-ops. So no grades doesn't necessarily mean soft. Robin '91 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 11:07:44 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (lucy (lwollin@panix.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 11:21:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "do you really want to just throw out everything science has learned about learning in those 50-60 years? somehow, it seems to me, that that is absolutely counter to Antioch's tradition of going with new discoveries and innovating accordingly. Time just doesn't stand still. I miss the 50s too in some ways. But we can't go back.: Well, that's a bit patronizing, isn't it? I taught for 35 years (and am still teaching, on and off, to a different audience) and am very aware that there are different learning styles. But all learners need challenge and structure. The instructors need to be flexible, not absent. If you were not able to read all those books and take all those tests, well, you're right -- you needed different styles of instruction. Maybe you would have been happier at a less rigorous institution. All I know about the various styles I encountered at Antioch is that they taught me how to do all that analysis, etc., which I needed to be very successful in the four graduate programs that I engaged in afterwards. As for Ollie Loud, the last project I had to do for him was about as different from anything I'd ever done before as there was -- with no boundaries and a real test of my learning skills. He'd probably love Antioch at any stage. He was my first advisor, which made no sense at all to me given that I was a lit major, but he was a sweetheart. >"And in getting rid of a hard task-master, thus beginneth the decline of a >respected college. I was and remain a Garrison Keiler English Major, with a >bit of Stephen's Soc. thrown in, but I managed to do OK with Ev. > >Sue GSC - 1950" > > >Sue, with all due respect to you and Luci (and Howard, wherever he's gone), >I'm really glad you enjoyed Antioch's courses as they were then. In the >50-60 years since then, however, we have learned a great deal about the >brain and learning styles. As a result, education from Kindergarten on up >has changed dramatically (even in the best of schools), because not everyone >learns in the same way. > >do you really want to just throw out everything science has learned about >learning in those 50-60 years? somehow, it seems to me, that that is >absolutely counter to Antioch's tradition of going with new discoveries and >innovating accordingly. Time just doesn't stand still. I miss the 50s too >in some ways. But we can't go back. > >Maybe Ollie Loud would concur with you. If so, then I'm confused about what >constituted science at Antioch. > >Antioch's program worked extremely well for some students. Some students can >devour and integrate the contents of 30 books a quarter, while also writing >six papers and taking six exams (which is the workload we typically had when >I was there), and deal with all the social stuff at Antioch, too. More >power to them. I might be able to do it now, but I didn't have the tools >then to know how to superficially scan a book and pick up the essence of it, >and then critique it. I just didn't know how, and nobody at Antioch seemed >to want to teach that, they just wanted it done. I eventually learned that >to critique meant learning to trust my own mind and my own experience, and >that takes knowing oneself. How do you teach that. I learned it in >therapy. I don't know where other people learn it. > >I enjoyed some of my courses, and I wouldn't call them easy. But there are >and were ways the program could have been improved. Change does not >necessarily equate with decline, and amount of work does not necessarily >equate with quality of learning. And today's students are not the same as >they were in the 50s, and the problems they are going to have to address in >their lives are not the same as the ones we faced. The sheer quantity of >knowledge changes so fast now, that it might be more important for them to >learn process and analytic skills, rather than "covering" a certain amount >of material. > >When I was teaching my Navajo kids, I had two goals for them that I kept >forever in my mind: I wanted them to learn that learning is fun, and I >wanted them to learn to be responsible for their own learning. Trying to >figure out how to get those two things across to them was very interesting. > >What Antioch taught me is that every experience in life is an opportunity to >learn, and the world is my school. I research everything I do, whether it >be organic gardening or quilting or canning or testing a learning disabled >client or designing a house or recovering from cancer or aging as well as >possible. Nothing escapes my analytic researching mind, and it's not always >learning from books, sometimes it's learning from observation and analysis. >It's just a way of life for me. It makes life very interesting. And >somehow, I credit Antioch for that, not the courses so much, but the >ever-challenging and stimulating atmosphere, along with the idea that real >life experience and book learning should go hand in hand and that learning >should be relevant. > >If we can pass all that on to future students, I'd be very happy. I don't >think they have to read 30 books a quarter to learn those things. But if >they want to and can, great! Let them at it. > >Pam From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 10 12:23:48 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 10 12:33:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] the alumni proposal Message-ID: Good work, folks! It looks very carefully thought through. From warren at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 10 12:22:57 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Fri Aug 10 12:36:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions In-Reply-To: References: < > <68D8046E-F2F4-4022-BAD1-2E2E5D5D54CC@baya.net> < > <001f01c7daa0$840151d0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: Dear Sonia and all, Well, that may have been true of one of the Learning Communities (although it sounds a bit exaggerated), but it certainly wasn't true of the one taught my Jahawara Giddings, Bob Devine, and me. Not only did all our students remain throughout the course, but we had other students add the course after the term started. Ours was the largest Learning Community, the collegiality and comraderie were very strong, the atmosphere was one of respect, mutual support, and intense passion for learning. Bob and I taught the same course the second year of the program (last year) with the help of alum Prexy Nesbitt, and again, it was tremendously successful, and received rave reviews from the students. To be honest, almost all of the LCs in both the first and second years received good reviews from our students. We were making the program work, and it was intellectually exciting and educationally strong. Board member Dan Fallon observed a presentation Bob and I made to the alumni two summers ago, and he too was stimul ated and excited by it. I hope this helps "round out the story." best, Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Thursday, August 9, 2007 at 12:53 PM wrote: >A current student who was at an Antioch meeting in New York last month >was an entering student when the Renewal Plan went into effect. She said >a third of her class left in the first three weeks because the >introduction of the new classes was in such chaos, students didn't know >what they were supposed to be doing from one day to the next, faculty >were arguing with each other about how to teach, in class in front of >students. (I don't mean this to be a knock on the faculty. Of course they >were confused themselves and it seems inevitable that sometimes it would >come out in front of the students.) You'd have to be an extremely >resiliant 18-year-old to stay through something like that. > >Sonia Jaffe Robbins >Antioch College '60-'62, '64 >sjr5@nyu.edu >srobbins@reedbusiness.com >http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting >http://www.neww.org >http://www.nwu.org >******************* >"Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mark Pomerantz >Date: Thursday, August 9, 2007 12:15 pm >Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions >To: 'Alumni Chat List' > >> It would be useful to find out somehow what was on the minds of the >large >> number of students that seemed to disappear after the Renewal Plan was >> announced. Any way to do this? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >> [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Baya >> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:28 AM >> To: Alumni Chat List >> Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] current student opinions >> >> There are a few current students and recent grads on these lists & >> the forums at Antiochians.org and I'm sure they'd be happy to share >> their experiences. However, my opinion on this is the first step is >> to get the college 'unclosed', then we can start the long hard road >> of recovery which will include some deep self-analysis of how things >> >> are currently and where we want to go. >> >> I know others want to do the deep analysis and fixing before the >> doors are opened again but the way I see it every day we're on 'death >> >> row' is another day we lose perspective students for Fall 2008. >> >> -Matt >> >> On Aug 9, 2007, at 10:13 AM, Pam Olsen wrote: >> >> > Does anyone mind if we ask current students (and those since '00, >> > perhaps) >> > to post about what they like about the college and curriculum, and >> >> > what, if >> > anything, they would change? I, for one, would like to know more >> > about the >> > current program and what it's strengths and weaknesses are. >> > >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 >> 5:46 PM >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alumni-chat mailing list >> Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >> http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >> Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 10 12:36:41 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 10 12:47:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] drugs at Antioch Message-ID: Just got a note from my sister, who said she stayed with a friend on a trip once whose son went to Antioch for a year and left. Said it was too full of druggies, couldn't stand it. And she said "he wasn't square...." went on to describe his black clothes, purple hair and body piercings. This was in '88, so it's old news, but I'm curious. What is the situation now? I would hope Antiochians are beginning to see how destructive and costly the whole drug culture is to society as a whole. From warren at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 10 12:38:34 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Fri Aug 10 12:52:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] drugs at Antioch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: During my 31 years of teaching, I also served as dean of students at three colleges. I can guarantee you that drug and alcohol abuse at Antioch is no worse than those other colleges; indeed, it was less bad than other colleges where I've worked. Not to say we didn't have a problem, like all colleges do (even religious colleges!). But whenever I would communicate with my fellow deans across the country, it was clear that almost all of them were struggling with much worse situations, as evidenced by the low level of symptoms at Antioch (like overdoses, theft, violence, students "flunking out," etc. best, Scott Warren Alumni Chat List on Friday, August 10, 2007 at 12:36 PM wrote: >Just got a note from my sister, who said she stayed with a friend on a >trip >once whose son went to Antioch for a year and left. Said it was too full >of >druggies, couldn't stand it. And she said "he wasn't square...." went on >to >describe his black clothes, purple hair and body piercings. > >This was in '88, so it's old news, but I'm curious. What is the situation >now? I would hope Antiochians are beginning to see how destructive and >costly the whole drug culture is to society as a whole. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From marklp2 at comcast.net Fri Aug 10 13:43:53 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Fri Aug 10 13:57:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... In-Reply-To: <002b01c7dab8$3f850bb0$be8f2310$@net> References: <001e01c7dab1$003cf550$00b6dff0$@net><00c401c7dab2$6a965760$5e761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> <002b01c7dab8$3f850bb0$be8f2310$@net> Message-ID: <00a301c7db76$05a43560$0401a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> We used to make homebrew in Corry Hall c. 1966. It was the worst tasting swill you can imagine (we had no boutique brewing recipes and equipment then) but it topped out at 12% alcohol. We also had problems with exploding bottles. The bottles were kept in the closets of the brewers but since clothes were not an issue at Antioch in those days or broken glass it wasn't too problematic. Corry Hall in those days was known as Suicide Hall. It had the highest suicide rate on campus. So, mental health has long been an issue at Antioch, no doubt due to the sensitive nature of Antiochians. A friend in Corry who was known for wedging himself between the narrow walls of the hallways and moving down the hall in an aerial crab-like manner (as well as playing the harpsichord in Kelly Hall) killed himself on co-op. Corry residents would bring their motorcycles right into the hallways and leave them in the common rooms. One resident became sick to his stomach one weekend. Instead of removing the evidence of his illness it was spray-painted silver and remained in place for many months. Several rooms were lined with aluminum foil I also recall. So the taste for somewhat garish decoration perhaps showing a slight lack in aesthetics is not a recent phenomenon among Antioch students. Of course I had some extraordinarily interesting experiences that summer of '66. Corry Hall was the base of that genius Marc Stone (another later loss to suicide) during the making of the premier cinematic enshrinement of Antioch, "The Antioch Adventure". Marc followed up that triumph that fall with the "Antioch Burlesque Show." This showcased the talents of Judy Bettleheim as an ecdysiast, Bill Fertig as a comedian, and Rick Meyers as a tapdancer. Marc also produced and directed another short feature, again spotlighting Corry Hall, called "3-1/2" an obvious homage to Fellini starring Harry Stone and his motorcycle. I forget who the girl was. At first I thought it was Jessica Lipnack again, (who was, thank god, outed here as a CIA agent) but now I think it was someone else. Harry, disdaining the stairs, manfully climbed up right up the face of Corry to pick up his date. Just to end these maunderings I also recall the "beer baseball" games, where you had to drink a cup before moving from base to base. Considering the quantities of various brews I consumed at Antioch I am thankful I did not become an alcoholic. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of E. Daniel Ayres Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:05 PM To: 'Stephen L. Wasby' Cc: Alumni Chat List Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... Steve: That must have been after my time. I rented a room from the guy who was head of the AHA for a semester in 1963-4, but I don't think his name was Ed. I believe he left YSO in 1964 or 1965. I'm having trouble remembering at the moment. What I do remember is how much beer we made in the basement. We went over to Comm's Restaurant and got 42 cases of empty quart Budweiser bottles during start-up. One spectacular "bad batch" got inoculated with just a little bit too much sugar before bottling and blew up a flawed bottle. It took us two days to get all the beer and glass shards cleaned up. It was a good thing we had sense enough to put the freshly bottled cases on shelves inside built-in basement cupboards. That way when a bottle blew up, chain reactions were less likely. Unfortunately, practically every bottle in a batch of 10 gallons was under the same extreme pressure at the same time. We were always invited to pick-up softball games that year. On the back porch was an extra old refrigerator which did nothing but cool home brew, and we used to take at least a case or two to any game we attended. By the 7th inning, grounders sometimes rolled to the outfield fence. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen L. Wasby [mailto:wasb@albany.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:24 PM To: eayres@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... A very quick note: There was an "Ed" Wilson in town -- but he was the head of the American Humanist Association (which had a building --no longer theirs, I gather-- on Xenia Ave.). I noticed the "Ed"/Ev mistake, too. Steve Wasby ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Daniel Ayres" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 14:20:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 14:33:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... In-Reply-To: <00a301c7db76$05a43560$0401a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <0ce8c7b25e3f583d3ff209de27a25ea5@www.antiochians.org> >I forget who the girl was. At first >I thought it was Jessica Lipnack again, (who was, thank god, outed here as a >CIA agent) but now I think it was someone else. Harry, disdaining the >stairs, manfully climbed up right up the face of Corry to pick up his date. whoa! I never said she was an "Agent". Agent... implies that she is an operative (field) officer in one of the Intellgence Services of the USA. Which is different than an "analyst" who also may work for the same agencies but they dont do field work at all. the classifcation systems are different. For instance "Analysts" are GS-1 through GS - 12 like people at National Park Service and Field Officers are IS-1 through IS - 12. "Agent" in the "Business" refers typically to a forgien national in the pay of the CIA or other agency. Lipnack is none of the above so far as I can tell. She merely sells her services to the above. However, in that capacity she has a worldview and skillset that are far from appropriate for participation here. She also is a 2012er and should really be banned. But thats not my call. Her husband may be an "Agent". Many Fullbright recipients get those scholarships through CIA or State Department auspices and go on to be agents or even field officers. This is just me being precise about what I think based on the evidence at hand. Now.. Mark.. if you have some 40 year old suspicains to share I'm all ears. From pas0705 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 10 14:26:28 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Fri Aug 10 14:40:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Request for BoT Minutes & reports Message-ID: <120017.88175.qm@web63904.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Greetings- I am writing to request copies of the Antioch University BoT minutes and reports, that I understand are held in the University Administration. It is preferred to have these documents requested below by Wednesday, August 15th at 1pm to assist with understanding the information the BoT Chair and University Chancellor will be providing during their webcast on Thursday. I can arrange to have them picked up in person. If the copies cannot be ready by Wednesday at 1pm, please notify me where these documents will also be available for inspection. For all records listed below, the date range requested is January 2003 to current. The documents requested are -Minutes of regular open meetings of the BoT -Minutes of open meetings of the Finance and the Executive Subcommittees of the BoT, that occurred as part of the regular BoT meetings or independently at other times -Minutes of conference calls of the Bot, the Finance subcommittee, and the Executive subcommittee. -Minutes of conference calls and meetings of any ad hoc group created by the BoT or its subcommittees that dealt specifically with the finances of Antioch University and/or Antioch College -Open Financial and Budgetary statements for Antioch College, traditionally labeled "summary by category" and "summary by function" statements, or the current equivalent of such documents. This is NOT a request for any documents that contain personal salary info or other private and/or confidential documentation classified as such under Ohio law. I understand that a reasonable copying fee may be charged for these copies. None of these documents requested have yet been provided to Antiochiana. If these documents can be provided to Antiochiana prior to Wednesday, I can work with Antiochiana to obtain the requested copies. Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Sincerely Laura Fathauer '95 CC: Art Zucker, Chair, Antioch University Board of Trustees Steven W. Lawry, President, Antioch College Nancy Crow, Chair, Antioch College Alumni Board Scott Sanders, Archivist, Antiochiana ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 10 15:02:13 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 10 15:11:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles Message-ID: Sorry, Luci, didn't mean to be patronizing. I was responding to your seemingly instant dismissal of findings of the First Year program research as simply balderdash, without ever seeing the data. All students need structure and challenge, I agree with that. But it doesn't have to be the same for all students for them to benefit equally, and they might not benefit from the particular structure that is perceived as being best by the teacher (my point about my Navajo kids. They did better when I was more responsive to where they were, instead of concocting what I thought were wonderful approaches in my head). Ollie Loud was indeed a very nice man with a fascinating structure to his courses. I could see how he must have had a wonderful time designing them. But I found that structure to be oppressive busy work, far more than was necessary to get the point, and being a significant draw of energy from my other courses. As a consequence, I don't remember a single thing I "learned" in his class. yes, I could have gone somewhere else. But somewhere else would not have provided me with the things about Antioch that were, to me, special and continue to be worth keeping. I felt that Antioch was not true to it's promise academically, i.e., providing students with an innovative education that was responsive to their personal learning needs. It was very forward looking with it's jobs and it's community atmosphere, with, I thought, an extremely traditional (at that time) approach to academics, only moreso. I found that to be inconsistent. Just my experience. What does it have to do with the present crisis? For me, it means that people taking charge from afar and designing a wonderful program for others to teach will probably be lots of fun for them, and not very effective for Antioch. Antioch will probably be at it's best if it keeps designing it's curriculum dynamically, in response to it's students, our changing world, and the passions of the faculty. We teach best what we feel strongly about to the people we care about. Even if they throw out the current faculty and hire new ones, this is still going to be the case. So why do that? I said something earlier about giving people a lot of responsibility but no power, which is what appears to have happened with the Renewal program. This management style is found to create high stress and anger in the people with the responsibility and no power. If there is a "toxic" environment at Antioch, then it probably would be good for the BoT to do some navel gazing and see if their management style has contributed to this. From millhaven28 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 10 15:51:06 2007 From: millhaven28 at hotmail.com (ginger lines) Date: Fri Aug 10 16:04:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become In-Reply-To: <032101c7d8ec$7c879410$7596bc30$@net> Message-ID: New Antioch motto: Hush up that noise! >From: "J. David Coldren" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "'Alumni Chat List'" >Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 07:14:20 -0500 > >Pam, > >Your point about doing some systematic (phenomenological) research is right >on target. I would have thought that this was an essential part of any >competent college administration and I'm a little taken aback to hear you >say (or, maybe, imply) that Antioch still hasn't done what it should in >this >area. > >You make several other cogent points. I will only observe in passing that >your mention of gerontology is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the >concept for an intergenerational learning environment for Antioch >(http://www.coldren.net/antioch). Only I didn't have the sense to stick the >word "gerontology" on one of the slides. I think I'll do that in the next >edition of the presentation. Thanks. > > >J. David Coldren '65 > > >This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and >intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are >addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the >attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this >e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are >legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or >disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt >of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any >privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by >e-mail >if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete >them from your system. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >[mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Olsen >Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:02 AM >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: [Alumni-chat] why Antioch Failed and what it should become > >I have some thoughts to share about how to figure out why Antioch failed >and >what it should become. > >Last month, Bob Devine posted a post about why he thought the renewal >program failed. Check out July, before the middle of the month, if you >didn't catch it. Of if he's listening, perhaps he can repost. He oughta >know... > >as for discovering the cause of the general decline (and the rebuilding of >Antioch), I think we should do some systematic (phenomenological) research. >For example, > >I believe the Alumni Office has stats on what graduates have done with >themselves after leaving Antioch, e.g., how many received graduate >fellowships, how many went on to get advanced degrees, what kinds of awards >they have received, books written, etc. It might be very interesting to >look at these stats (and the folks that work in that office might have a >very good sense of trends) and see what the trends are/were and when, if >ever, they changed, and try and connect those changes to changes in >curriculum and/or events on campus in the years prior. I know that the >strike was a devatasting blow and as far as I know, the census never >recovered. Without a decent census, we can't take in the money to pay the >faculty, keep up the plant, etc. We could track when it increased and what >was going on, and when it decreased and what was going on, in the years >since the strike. Maybe then we could get a better handle on why it's >failed. We might also write to students who left and find out why. AND WE >NEED TO LISTEN TO THEM! They can probably tell us more than anything else. >I think perhaps it's also important to look at the national trends. I take >it that Goddard and Bard have also had difficulty. Maybe radical just >isn't selling in today's world, and if not, we need to bring it down a few >notches. Which gets me to my next point. > >If we're going to find a niche to fill, then I think we have to know what >the educational world is like out there. I would suggest a process >something like the following: > >1. have a general idea of what kinds of problems we'd like to address (we >seem to be in some agreement--the few of us that have spoken to this-- that >we'd like to combine a rigorous educational program with work to address >serious problems facing the world today, and possibly in some kind of >interdisciplinary program (although I don't know why students who want a >traditional science, math or history program, for example, couldn't have >that, too. some people just want a good solid foundation in a subject so >that they can go on.). > >2. Study the catalogues of virtually every small liberal arts college in >the country and find out which ones are succeeding and why, and which ones >aren't doing so well. Talk to some students in the best and the worst and >find out what they like and what they would change. > >3. In doing this, find out where the gaps are, given the problems facing >the planet, or what programs are very popular but can't serve all the >students who apply. > >4. Talk to top high school students around the country and find out what >kinds of problems they're concerned about for the world and what kinds of >ways they would like to help, thus, what kind of training they would like >to >get. They could be presented with some options we've concocted, and see >which ones interest them most. After I put in my little note about a >health >practitioner, I wondered whether any youth today would be interested in >working with the aging, and last night at a friend's house, I heard their >20 >year old daughter talking about her college program in gerontology. It's >out there, and students are interested, apparently. > >(When I first went to college, I didn't have a clue what kinds of things >were available, though, so I think we should assume that students have a >fairly limited perspective in high school. What do you want to bet there >are a lot of CSI wannabes out there? Still, it's high school kids we have >to attract, so I guess we need to know what they want. > >Perhaps, however, we could also aim at Jr. Colleges. That would help us to >take in upper classmen right away.) > >4. After doing all of this, hone in on a few ideas for programs and >consult >with alumni or friends of alumni (or just plain well known experts) in >these >fields (My husband's best friend has worked for a charitable foundation for >over 20 years and was their Middle East Expert for 10. He has a lot of >ideas about how to better run a foundation (than the one he works for, >which >is better than most), not to mention what is going on in the MIddle East. >I >would imagine he'd be happy to brainstorm with us, and he's probably the >brightest and best educated guy I know--he might even be interested in a >teaching position--if he could do it out of New York, and with today's >technology, why couldn't teachers be all over the country? Maybe we can do >a new twist to distance learning: the students stay on campus in a >community, and some of the faculty work from far away, and come to campus a >couple of weeks each quarter....it might save us some money to hire some >people part time this way, and also get some top-notch experts). > > >Anyway, let these consultants design their dream program, talk to a few >more >experts in these fields and get their feedback and tweak it. And write it >up with specific courses, course contents, goals of each (possibly >interdisciplinary) department, and so forth. Along with potential >interested faculty names, which might include some current Antioch faculty, >for gosh sakes! > >At this point, with all research carefully recorded and a plan in writing, >it should be very possible to go to potential donors and say hey, we've >done >all this research, and we think we know why Antioch failed, we've learned >from our mistakes, we know what works and what doesn't around the country, >and we know where the educational gaps or opportunities are, and we've >designed these programs to fill those gaps, will you help us fund them? I >mean, do you think Clinton or Gates would be interested in helping to train >people to work for their foundations? I dunno, but why not aim for >something like that? Maybe they at least have some ideas. > >personally, I think donors would be much more interested in helping if we >have some concrete research to show them, and a well formulated plan. > >And then we hire some phenomenal marketer, and market it. Personally, I >think we should aim for a student body of at least 1000, to be built in >four >years from the time we start (or maybe sooner if we take in folks from Jr. >Colleges)....anything less than that just won't generate enough money to >have a diverse enough faculty and keep the plant in good Feng shui >condition! > >Oh, and we should charge just a few K less than the typical Small >College....Money talks. > >My two cents! > >Pam ('68) > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From lrpjak at verizon.net Fri Aug 10 16:24:05 2007 From: lrpjak at verizon.net (L Powsner) Date: Fri Aug 10 16:40:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: References: <005701c7dab7$7308dee0$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> Message-ID: <7EAC5BBA061A40388BAFF6915D734FB9@NewDell> What do others think of this? Is it time to write letters to the AUBoT with that threat; that our passion, action, and money will NOT be there in 4 years when (if) they open Antioch Lite? I just keep wondering if, in fact, they have no intention of reopening at all, but just said that in the thought that would appease the alum... Laurie '83 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com) Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 4:25 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker Every one should read Barbara Winslow's comments in the NYC Chapter meeting minutes: Questions to Barbara: Q: "Is there a time stop point where we cannot reverse the minds of the BOT and need to revert to legal action?" A: Barb not optimistic about this BOT changing its mind feels they are not a Board she recognizes anymore, and will not say they made a mistake. I think that means that now is the time for legal action, at least the preliminary steps of retaining counsel. Gerry, with the way the selection process for the 8/25 mtg has gone I do not think the AUBoT thinks the momentum has really shifted against them. Moreover I imagine that Toni and the PR firm are just telling them to look at the long term believing that most ad-hoc movements like ours lose steam. I am writing to them individually again, this time not to tell them how much the college means to me but how their arrogance, intransagince and collaboration with the AU Administration will guarntee nothing but ill-will from me and mine for all eternity. From sulogsc at verizon.net Fri Aug 10 16:48:48 2007 From: sulogsc at verizon.net (sulogsc) Date: Fri Aug 10 17:02:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] drugs at Antioch References: Message-ID: <012a01c7db8f$da8b3170$0201a8c0@pavilion> Had a similar experience with my aerobics instructor who asked us , as a group where we went to college. She and several of us old ladies spoke up -- (many went to OSU, as had the instructor) When I said I'ds gone to Antioch, she (about an '88 alum of OSU) said, "Wow! That's where we'd go to get our pot!" Great rep, no? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Olsen" To: Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] drugs at Antioch > Just got a note from my sister, who said she stayed with a friend on a > trip > once whose son went to Antioch for a year and left. Said it was too full > of > druggies, couldn't stand it. And she said "he wasn't square...." went on > to > describe his black clothes, purple hair and body piercings. > > This was in '88, so it's old news, but I'm curious. What is the situation > now? I would hope Antiochians are beginning to see how destructive and > costly the whole drug culture is to society as a whole. > > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 16:55:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 17:09:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter Message-ID: August 8, 2007 Dear Trustees, Thank you for Board Chair Art Zucker's prompt reply to our letter of July 28. We greatly appreciate the Board of Trustees' commitment to resolving Antioch's structural and governance issues. As Art mentioned, the suggestions in our letter are in agreement with the substance of the governing structure that has been previously proposed. In fact, during our time on the Board these issues were discussed repeatedly. These are not new ideas, but they are certainly ideas whose time has come. You mentioned that it is heartening when former Trustees demonstrate their commitment to Antioch. You?ll be excited to hear that since sending our letter to you, a number of former trustees have asked to become signatories to the letter, so that twenty former Trustees are now asking that you act on our proposal at the August meeting. As you can see by their names below, these committed Trustees include the past five Board Chairs as well as three Vice Chairs. Among us, we have a total of 165 years of experience in service to Antioch as Trustees. We are intimately familiar with Antioch College?s challenges as well as its strengths. We all feel strongly that the first and immediate step on the road to rebirth must be the creation of a separate Board of Trustees for Antioch University/Yellow Springs, with the power to hire and fire the College President and administer the College, and with responsibility for both Antioch College and McGregor, as detailed in our previous letter. We cannot emphasize strongly enough how taking this step at your August meeting will send a strong signal to all Antioch College alumni, major donors, and others who care deeply about the College, that the current Trustees are serious in their intentions. We believe that such a strong and immediate signal is essential to building the trust necessary for there to be any hope of raising the considerable amount of money that will be needed to re-open the College. We are delighted by your invitation to work with you toward the goal of re-opening a stronger Antioch College. Given your positive response to our suggestions, we would like to begin that partnership by including a subset of the signatories below as participants at your August Board meeting. While we understand that you are inviting various stakeholders to speak with you on Saturday to represent their constituencies, we must observe that we are not stakeholders, but statespeople. We are all former Antioch University trustees, including the last five Board Chairs. We share with you the unique experience of having functioned as guardians of the whole University. We respectfully request that you include us in at least part of your closed session on Sunday. We realize this is an unusual request, but Antioch is in unusual circumstances. We ask that you broaden the brain trust leading the rebirth the College by including another 165 years of Antioch Trustee knowledge, experience and wisdom. (Since this was originally drafted, 4 trustees, Spock, Granai, Ayoub and Richards signed on with 30 combined years of service) We understand the pressure you are under, and your fiduciary responsibility to insure the long-term fiscal sustainability of all units of Antioch University. We believe we can assist the Board in regaining the trust of the alumni, major donors and other stakeholders so that everyone who loves Antioch College can begin moving in the same direction, towards rebirth. We are sure that our expertise and our commitment to this mission will make us invaluable contributors and help effect a positive and united outcome. We know that you are as committed as we are to Antioch College rising like a phoenix from the ashes, reborn, healthy, and once again educating students to win victories for humanity. We look forward to working with you to light the way forward. Sincerely, Dan Kaplan*-11 years of service Laura Markham -2 Barbara Winslow**-12 and Eric Bates 4 Tamara Guzik Bliss 2 Susan Boren 13** Leressa Crockett - 12 Cynthia Fuchs Epstein-11 Zelda Gamson**-9 Alan Gartner 3 Jewel Graham - 3 Meg Hansson - 6 Frances Degen Horowitz- 6 Bob Krinsky*-20 Pegene McPhaden - 9 Karen Mulhauser- 14 Larry Pearl* - 5 Jordan Tamagni -2 Hardy Trolander* -6 Malte vonMatthiessen*-15 Ed Richards - 10 Ed Granai - 10 Judith Spock - 12 Vic Ayoub - 2 * Former chair **Former vice chair (Each name is followed by the years of service as an Antioch Trustee.) Barbara Winslow From wasb at albany.edu Fri Aug 10 17:24:48 2007 From: wasb at albany.edu (Stephen L. Wasby) Date: Fri Aug 10 17:38:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker References: <005701c7dab7$7308dee0$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> <7EAC5BBA061A40388BAFF6915D734FB9@NewDell> Message-ID: <005a01c7db94$e2aa68d0$61761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> ----- Original Message ----- From: "L Powsner" To: "'Alumni Chat List'" Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 4:24 PM Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker > What do others think of this? Is it time to write letters to the AUBoT > with > that threat; that our passion, action, and money will NOT be there in 4 > years when (if) they open Antioch Lite? = If the trustees think they will be supported so long as something/anything with "Antioch College" in the title, they have even less incentive to be "collaborative" (and one can see how really "collaborative" and cooperative they have been to this point). I just keep wondering if, in fact, > they have no intention of reopening at all, but just said that in the > thought that would appease the alum... = I think that was the the initial reaction of many; it was mine. But the more I listened, the more I wondered. Here is one cynical interpretation: The endowment is insufficient; all seem to be agreed on that. Howevr, a significant portion (I don't have a percentage at hand) of that (insufficient) endowment is "tied up" in that it is designated for scholarships connected to Antioch College. My "evil" view is that the BoT has to have something called "Antioch College" in order to be able to tap those funds, which will, of course, grow during the four years of the "suspension." And, as I believe others have noted, suspending four years removes the obligation to rehire those (tenured) faculty (who have been terminated because of the financial exigency), three years being the "magic number" there. Cynical, yes? But in this situation, justified. It's like the saying, "If they really are following you, you aren't paranoid." Steve Wasby '59 > > Laurie '83 > > -----Original Message----- > From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu > [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Travis Sanford > (travissanford@msn.com) > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 4:25 PM > To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker > > Every one should read Barbara Winslow's comments in the NYC Chapter > meeting > minutes: > Questions to Barbara: > Q: "Is there a time stop point where we cannot reverse the minds of the > BOT > and need to revert to legal action?" > A: Barb not optimistic about this BOT changing its mind feels they are not > a > Board she recognizes anymore, and will not say they made a mistake. > > I think that means that now is the time for legal action, at least the > preliminary steps of retaining counsel. > > Gerry, with the way the selection process for the 8/25 mtg has gone I do > not > think the AUBoT thinks the momentum has really shifted against them. > Moreover I imagine that Toni and the PR firm are just telling them to look > at the long term believing that most ad-hoc movements like ours lose > steam. > > I am writing to them individually again, this time not to tell them how > much > the college means to me but how their arrogance, intransagince and > collaboration with the AU Administration will guarntee nothing but > ill-will > from me and mine for all eternity. > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.11/944 - Release Date: 8/9/2007 > 2:44 PM > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 17:51:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 18:04:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <005a01c7db94$e2aa68d0$61761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Message-ID: <15284358e0034b0d60d400fe14ab7eae@www.antiochians.org> Oh yes Laurie, the time is now. Toni already said that Antioch2012 would probably be called Antioch University Yellow Springs. The college is dead, long live the college. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 17:53:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (tedgoertzel (goertzel@camden.rutgers.edu)) Date: Fri Aug 10 18:07:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Creating a new Board for Antioch College makes sense, but including McGregor is questionable unless the people at McGregor agree to it. If this new "Yellow Springs" Board controls everything in Yellow Springs it would pretty much duplicate the existing board. The existing board would be left with the New Hampshire and West Coast campuses which are pretty much independent anyway and don't really need to be run out of Yellow Springs. I don't see anybody on the list who is identified as being from McGregor, but I don't know who a lot of them are. Has anybody asked what they think? Looking at the McGregor WEB site, it looks as if they are eager to keep from being pulled down with Antioch College. This proposal smells like an attempt to use their (very limited) resources to bail out the college. Maybe that's what McGregor was created for, but is it ethical to fund a middle class residential college off the tuition paid by working class night students? Shouldn't they have the right to be part of this decision? It seems as if the existing Board is tryng to protect McGregor and the other campuses, while the new Board is willing to pull them down in a last ditch effort to save the College. Would a rump college financed on a shoestring be worth that? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 17:54:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 18:07:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <32ca0918308f1a6b540d3997c59b9c64@www.antiochians.org> Did I miss Art Zucker's prompt reply? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 18:01:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Liza (eadler2001@yahoo.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 18:15:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: <32ca0918308f1a6b540d3997c59b9c64@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <3a22a8f70c0c99487bf3a4a32161e0f7@www.antiochians.org> It hasn't been posted yet. Please see http://www.antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20160 >Did I miss Art Zucker's prompt reply? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 18:06:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 18:19:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] drugs at Antioch In-Reply-To: <012a01c7db8f$da8b3170$0201a8c0@pavilion> Message-ID: 1) Pam please stop posting new topics and just reply to the last message in the chain of the same topic. It is hard to follow when new topics are really the same. 2) What is the point of this disscussion? Reed has the reputation of where you get your pot in Oregon, Evergreen in Washington, Berkeley in the bay area. Warren has already pointed out that in his considerable experiece and proffesional opinion drugs are no more rampant at Antioch than other schools. 3) I would argue that there was a great element of... Dionysiansism on campus, with a few bachanalia that were really breathtaking. But nothing so essentially violative or abusive as your average kegger the Tri-Delt house at any old UofX. In fact I ...ahem "hear" that there are even websites devoted to these "mainstream" parties. I have to say though since we might just be swapping stories that I found Antioch to be tolerant of drug use but not a great place to get drugs. Very low supply (OSU would have many many times the number of dealers) in fact only a certain F- was reliable but expensive. As for the drugs to which pot is the gateway, very hard to get on campus. Then there was Ohio's obnoxious liquor laws and weird reduced alchohol content liquor. My point is if Antioch as such an image it is inaccurate and not terribly important. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 18:16:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 18:30:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > is it ethical to fund a middle class residential college off the tuition paid by working class night students? Shouldn't they have the right to be part of this decision? Ted, unfortunately, the college is no longer a middle class insttution. The vast majority (>90%) of the college's students receive financial aid, and a large percentage of them qualify for pell grants. McGregor, on the other hand, attracts many students who are pursuing graduate degrees which are at least partly funded by their employers. The shift from predominantly wealthy to predominantly not wealthy is (IMHO) one of the biggest changes to Antioch College's culture over the past 30 years. Skooter From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 18:30:23 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 18:43:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <554e9d146206edda0df57426bd89690b@www.antiochians.org> Ted, Ted, Ted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you not paying attention? Antioch College has one of highest subsidized tuition rates among private colleges in America. It is that way because there are very, very, very few full tuition students. Our demographics have been going lower on the economic scale for thirty years as was planed when the College began all of its experiments. On the backs of McGregor? Ted, McGregor was built on the back of the college, more so than any other part of the university. But Ted you hit the nail on the head with this one "The existing board would be left with the New Hampshire and West Coast campuses which are pretty much independent anyway and don't really need to be run out of Yellow Springs" Thats right. There is really no need for the U at all except the other campuses don't have 150 years of history or buildings or grounds worht a soft focus early morning shot on a brochure. Dissolve the U. Put McGregor back into the context that it was created: supplemental revenue for the college. From lucy.wollin at verizon.net Fri Aug 10 19:01:24 2007 From: lucy.wollin at verizon.net (lwollin) Date: Fri Aug 10 19:14:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles References: Message-ID: <009501c7dba2$608cbed0$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> You know, I had quite a "creative and innovative" education at Antioch. I suspect that continuing this conversation is pretty useless, since we don't really have an arguement and you pick phrases so that you can continue to "argue" with me. I hope someone else will pick up the gauntlet so that you can amuse yourself further. Meanwhile, I fail to see how any of this is going to help save Antioch College, so I'm bowing out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Olsen" To: Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles > Sorry, Luci, didn't mean to be patronizing. I was responding to your > seemingly instant dismissal of findings of the First Year program research > as simply balderdash, without ever seeing the data. > > All students need structure and challenge, I agree with that. But it > doesn't have to be the same for all students for them to benefit equally, > and they might not benefit from the particular structure that is perceived > as being best by the teacher (my point about my Navajo kids. They did > better when I was more responsive to where they were, instead of > concocting > what I thought were wonderful approaches in my head). Ollie Loud was > indeed > a very nice man with a fascinating structure to his courses. I could see > how he must have had a wonderful time designing them. But I found that > structure to be oppressive busy work, far more than was necessary to get > the > point, and being a significant draw of energy from my other courses. As > a > consequence, I don't remember a single thing I "learned" in his class. > > yes, I could have gone somewhere else. But somewhere else would not have > provided me with the things about Antioch that were, to me, special and > continue to be worth keeping. I felt that Antioch was not true to it's > promise academically, i.e., providing students with an innovative > education > that was responsive to their personal learning needs. It was very forward > looking with it's jobs and it's community atmosphere, with, I thought, an > extremely traditional (at that time) approach to academics, only moreso. I > found that to be inconsistent. Just my experience. > > What does it have to do with the present crisis? > > For me, it means that people taking charge from afar and designing a > wonderful program for others to teach will probably be lots of fun for > them, > and not very effective for Antioch. Antioch will probably be at it's > best > if it keeps designing it's curriculum dynamically, in response to it's > students, our changing world, and the passions of the faculty. We teach > best what we feel strongly about to the people we care about. Even if > they > throw out the current faculty and hire new ones, this is still going to be > the case. So why do that? > > I said something earlier about giving people a lot of responsibility but > no > power, which is what appears to have happened with the Renewal program. > This management style is found to create high stress and anger in the > people > with the responsibility and no power. If there is a "toxic" environment > at > Antioch, then it probably would be good for the BoT to do some navel > gazing > and see if their management style has contributed to this. > > > > From moloney at pobox.com Fri Aug 10 19:02:00 2007 From: moloney at pobox.com (Elizabeth Moloney) Date: Fri Aug 10 19:15:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] drugs at Antioch In-Reply-To: <012a01c7db8f$da8b3170$0201a8c0@pavilion> References: <012a01c7db8f$da8b3170$0201a8c0@pavilion> Message-ID: My brother went to UMass Amherst (Zoo Mass, as it was known at the time - late 80s early 90s) and was a frat brother - the favorite event in the spring (which was photographed and archived along the walls of the frat house) was Projectile Vomiting off the 2nd floor porch. Whoever could puke the furthest got....I don't know.... more drinks? In all seriousness, this same brother also had his head literally bashed in with a steel pipe while working as a bouncer at one of the parties at the aforementioned house and ended up having emergency brain surgery - My parents loved getting that phone call. He still has seizures more than 15 years later. And then there's that frat brother at MIT died of alcohol poisoning in 1998. And there as a student at LSU who died around the same time... What about the riots at Umass, after the ALCS in 2003 and the Series in 2004? And again in 2006 after the Minutemen lost a football game? Police in riot gear and overturned cars? Never saw that in Yellow Springs. Or the death of an Emerson student in the Kenmore Square mob (composed largely of BU, Northeastern, and MIT kids from the student housing that blankets that area) after the 2004 World Series. She was incidentally, shot in the face with a pepper gun by a Boston cop. Incidents like that at big "state" or state-like-size schools were what made Antioch all the more appealing to me in the first place. I don't think Antiochians as a group hold any illusions about or corner the market on drugs and alcohol. I know students who had substance abuse problems and indeed got into trouble (in many ways) while on co- op (which is perhaps a different thread to pursue on the forum) but as far as the day to day life and the (dare I say it) toxicity, I'd take Antioch over Zoo Mass with its Riot Police any day. - beth '95 On Aug 10, 2007, at 4:48 PM, sulogsc wrote: > Had a similar experience with my aerobics instructor who asked us , > as a group where we went to college. She and several of us old > ladies spoke up -- (many went to OSU, as had the instructor) When > I said I'ds gone to Antioch, she (about an '88 alum of OSU) said, > "Wow! That's where we'd go to get our pot!" Great rep, no? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Olsen" > To: > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 12:36 PM > Subject: [Alumni-chat] drugs at Antioch > > >> Just got a note from my sister, who said she stayed with a friend >> on a trip >> once whose son went to Antioch for a year and left. Said it was >> too full of >> druggies, couldn't stand it. And she said "he wasn't square...." >> went on to >> describe his black clothes, purple hair and body piercings. >> >> This was in '88, so it's old news, but I'm curious. What is the >> situation >> now? I would hope Antiochians are beginning to see how >> destructive and >> costly the whole drug culture is to society as a whole. >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From lucy.wollin at verizon.net Fri Aug 10 19:07:09 2007 From: lucy.wollin at verizon.net (lwollin) Date: Fri Aug 10 19:21:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] rigorous academics References: Message-ID: <015c01c7dba3$3021eb70$6401a8c0@DFL7B741> I loved Louis Filler's North and South course. He was a great teacher. That much we agree about. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Olsen" To: Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:18 PM Subject: [Alumni-chat] rigorous academics > Interesting that the Renewal plan was trying to help mitigate the sink or > swim mentality. > > I have to say, after my very negative post about academics there, that > there > were some highlights for me. One was in Louis Filler's course, when he > turned me on to "primary sources," and had us reading dialogues between > Benjamin Franklin and the Queen of England. I had always hated history. > No > more. And I've like Benj. ever since! so that "original text" thing is > certainly something I can see. One of the things I inherited from my > dearly > departed, Peter Mikuliak ('67), was his set of books (many sets of books) > The Annals of America. There are 20 in the set, and I'm actually reading > them, thanks to Louis Filler (whom I didn't like as a person, but so > what?) > > I loved my courses from Stanly Garn. I was intriqued with the way he > thought, and how he modeled it in class. (He commented to me one day, > "You're the only person in this class who sits in a different place every > time."). I did my thesis on a taxonomy of fossil man, and knew every > single > fossil that had been discovered til that time. It was great fun. > > I loved reading The Plague, and The Republic, and Thucidides. They blew > my > mind and opened up worlds to me. I loved my geology courses. When I took > paleontology, I actually dreamed about a different phylum every week. I > really enjoyed Primitive Religions (but the exam was such that it was the > first time in my life I wanted to get up and walk out). > > I mean there were highlights. What frustrated me is that no matter how > much > I studied or how much I learned, I almost always got Cs (a totally new > experience for me) mostly because my papers were late (ADHD takes the > adrenalin of anxiety to get the brain functioning, which, of course, I > didn't know then--if only I had taken speed like everyone else, I'd have > been fine, but I was too "good" and honest to do such a thing.) My grades > didn't reflect anything about what I was learning, I didn't think. I mean, > I > could have majored in education or languages and gotten As, but I wanted > to > learn new things. And so I paid the price in my grades and my > self-esteem, > while i saw students much more sophisticated in the ways of the world than > I > taking courses in which they knew the subject matter so they could get > their > As and get into grad school. Or they simply dropped the course if they > weren't doing well, so it wouldn't show up on their transcript. I went in > to change registration in my fourth or fifth year, and asked how to do it, > and the registrar almost fell off her chair. "You're fourth year and > you've > never changed registration: That's gotta be a first." > > Pam > > > > From bporter at comcast.net Fri Aug 10 19:44:43 2007 From: bporter at comcast.net (Beverly Porter) Date: Fri Aug 10 19:58:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... References: <001e01c7dab1$003cf550$00b6dff0$@net> <008d01c7dabe$e00cdfd0$0201a8c0@pavilion> Message-ID: <001d01c7dba8$6d782ed0$6401a8c0@Beverly> What a time: Ev Wilson, Vic Ayoub, and Ray Gordon, the best of them all from my point of view! It was great being a soc major in the 1950's. They disagreed with each other in many ways, Ev the academic theoretician, Ray the down in the trenches practical guy, and Ayoub in a world apart. Disagreements can make for good discussions. Yes, they expected a lot. And perhaps we had too much to read and to write. Field Comps, huge research essays, were exhausting in my senior year. But I loved every minute of it. I didn't have any 'elite' background preparation; the New Jersey public schools didn't lean in that direction. But I loved to learn and somehow I found all the tools right there for me at Antioch. The unbounded enthusiasm of the professors was central. >From what I've read on this list, Antioch may have had its problems in recent years but the professors of today sound as exciting and stimulating as the ones I had many years ago and the students as hungry to learn. Different of course, it's a different time, but if I was anywhere near campus I would be petitioning (that's what we did in the old days) to sit in on some of those courses. Beverly, ----- Original Message ----- From: "sulogsc" To: "Alumni Chat List" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... > And in getting rid of a hard task-master, thus beginneth the decline of a > respected college. I was and remain a Garrison Keiler English Major, with > a bit of Stephen's Soc. thrown in, but I managed to do OK with Ev. > > Sue GSC - 1950 >> >> >> >> >> > > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 21:07:11 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 21:20:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Arthur J. Zucker In-Reply-To: <15284358e0034b0d60d400fe14ab7eae@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Oh yes Laurie, the time is now. > >Toni already said that Antioch2012 would probably be called Antioch University Yellow Springs. > >The college is dead, long live the college. If you'd like to make those threats, and think you will profit from making them, then go ahead. I think it is important for people to communicate openly that not one thin damn dime is going their way. Thats a good move and a profitable use of many people's time. For me... I dont make threats. My yes is yes and my no is no. If you know me, you how emphatic my no is. If dont know me misjudging me has never profited anyone. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 10 21:08:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 10 21:22:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Request for BoT Minutes & reports In-Reply-To: <120017.88175.qm@web63904.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Greetings- > >I am writing to request copies of the Antioch >University BoT minutes and reports, that I understand >are held in the University Administration. > >It is preferred to have these documents requested >below by Wednesday, August 15th at 1pm to assist with >understanding the information the BoT Chair and >University Chancellor will be providing during their >webcast on Thursday. I can arrange to have them picked >up in person. > >If the copies cannot be ready by Wednesday at 1pm, >please notify me where these documents will also be >available for inspection. > >For all records listed below, the date range requested >is January 2003 to current. > >The documents requested are > >-Minutes of regular open meetings of the BoT > >-Minutes of open meetings of the Finance and the >Executive Subcommittees of the BoT, that occurred as >part of the regular BoT meetings or independently at >other times > >-Minutes of conference calls of the Bot, the Finance >subcommittee, and the Executive subcommittee. > >-Minutes of conference calls and meetings of any ad >hoc group created by the BoT or its subcommittees that >dealt specifically with the finances of Antioch >University and/or Antioch College > >-Open Financial and Budgetary statements for Antioch >College, traditionally labeled "summary by category" >and "summary by function" statements, or the current >equivalent of such documents. > >This is NOT a request for any documents that contain >personal salary info or other private and/or >confidential documentation classified as such under >Ohio law. > >I understand that a reasonable copying fee may be >charged for these copies. > >None of these documents requested have yet been >provided to Antiochiana. If these documents can be >provided to Antiochiana prior to Wednesday, I can work >with Antiochiana to obtain the requested copies. > >Thank you for your assistance in this matter. > >Sincerely >Laura Fathauer '95 > >CC: >Art Zucker, Chair, Antioch University Board of >Trustees >Steven W. Lawry, President, Antioch College >Nancy Crow, Chair, Antioch College Alumni Board >Scott Sanders, Archivist, Antiochiana > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Need a vacation? Get great deals >to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >http://travel.yahoo.com/ nicely done From lrpjak at verizon.net Fri Aug 10 21:20:37 2007 From: lrpjak at verizon.net (L Powsner) Date: Fri Aug 10 21:36:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Alumni Board Governance Proposal Message-ID: FYI, please see attached Antioch Alumni Board Governance Proposal. Was forwarded to me from Nathanial Clark in Philly. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Alumni Board Governance Proposal.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 108626 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://w3.antioch.edu/pipermail/alumni-chat/attachments/20070810/0d944848/AlumniBoardGovernanceProposal-0001.pdf From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 11 00:06:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (RichardCampbell (photocafe@earthlink.net)) Date: Sat Aug 11 00:20:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: <001f01c7daa8$3ba839f0$0200a8c0@IlseDesktop> Message-ID: <894202de6e2a1544bc506de2fa681d7b@antiochians.org> >Sounds like the current Bush administration tactics. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:36 PM >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] RE: Blast from the past... > > >>In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:37:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >>matt@baya.net writes: >> >>I never heard this, though if true that's not surprising that Antioch >>didn't advertise this to current students. However I know a number of >>fellow science students that got into the grad schools of their >>choice without any problems so I'm not sure what affect this lack of >>accreditation had exactly. >> >>Sara can you cite some sources and specifics here? Certainly working >>getting things re-accredited down the road is a good goal >> >>Thanks >> >>-Matt '92 >> >> >> >>Matt, I tried to answer this earlier, but something went wacko with my >>mail >>program, so I gave it a nap. >> >>What you are asking is how I found out about the withdrawal of >>accreditation >>from Antioch's Science Programs, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, >>etc. >>Well, I found out about it from a classmate of mine, Stephen J. Gould. >>He, >>along with Joann Argetsinger were invited by Guskins to spend a week on >>the >>Antioch Campus during the first year of Guskin's presidency, (about 1987) >>to >>study the then existing science resources and then to help write a >>proposal to >>restore accredited science at Antioch. They worked with Development on >>it, >>and were successful in getting a grant of 2 million from the Howard >>Hughes >>Medical Institute. But much more would have been necessary to complete >>the >>proposed plan. But the proposal which went out with their names on it >>was very >>comprehensive and detailed. >> >>I talked to Stephen twice about the proposal, the general outline of the >>plan, but I am not certain in what order these conversations occurred. >>One was >>at Reunion where Stephen was given the Horace Mann Award, and another was >>when he was in Mpls delivering a lecture, and then did a book signing, and >>afterwards I took him out for dessert and coffee. Both of these were >>while I was >>serving on the Alumni Board, and thus when in YSO, and running into >>retired >>faculty, I used my Gould conversations as an opener to get people to >>reflect >>and talk. So in the end I had lots of sources -- and I talked with >>another >>Antiochian who knew Joann well, and she confirmed that Argetsinger saw >>things >>very much the same way. >> >>Yes, it makes a difference if the American Chemical Society decertifies >>your >>program, particularly if they had flagged it over several reviews, and >>provided a detailed list of things that needed fixing. 1985 was no >>surprise to >>the college, the problems had been building for a decade. They included >>lack >>of credentialed faculty, poor quality of lab space, equipment, lack of >>budget >>for supplies, non-current Library materials particularly major journals, >>and >>lack of appropriate support -- such as the minimalist Math Department >>that >>would be required to support Chemistry. Physics, Biology and Geology had >>the >>same fundamental problems. I sincerely believe Guskins tried to >>re-build, but >>it didn't happen, and after that you could not get a straight answer to a >>straight factual question. >> >>Gould was properly pissed about being used to get the first grants. He >>could not even get straight answers as to how money was being spent -- >>money he >>essentially raised, and used his professional reputation to vouch for in >>the >>grant process. He gave me names of mutual friends who had tried to >>assist, >>and had essentially the same experience -- they got used, and then burned. >>Retired professors in YSO told me the same thing, and that the kind of >>trust >>that builds these sorts of relationships was essentially in the gutter. >> >>Antioch's problem, in my mind, was that it puffed up a vast illusion about >>itself, and then fashioned PR around that, and through considerable >>coercion, >>managed to keep many people talking the same talking points over the >>years, to >>the point that some otherwise intelligent folk actually believed them, but >>many feared the consequences of being identified with anything off >>message. >>You saw that here today if the analysis is on target -- someone tried to >>do >>something nasty to someone's employment because a member of this list was >>a >>critic. You don't like the message, so you shoot the messenger. It is a >>nifty >>little power play that is all too common around Antioch in the last >>decade >>or so, and along with the dishonesty illustrated by how Gould was dealt >>with, >>it is anything but what Antioch Values should be -- and it stinketh. >>Moreover it does not rebuild Science Programs nor does it result in >>quality tenured >>teaching historians. >> >>So that's my evidence. Once I told people in YSO that I had talked with >>Gould about the project to rebuild Science, and what he thought of the >>effort to >>execute, I just collected more examples and evidence, with pleas not to >>attach names to anything I might say. Even today, I won't do that except >>for >>Gould, because as you know, he died in 2001. I served on the Alumni >>Board from >>1988 till 1994, and much of that time I did collect observations of this >>sort, which in a naive way I thought might be the basis for advocacy for >>change. >>It was fairly hopeless. >> >> >> >> >> >>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL >>at >>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour >> >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.8/941 - Release Date: 8/7/2007 >>4:06 PM One more form of betrayal. Goodness. It sounds terrible. Here they had someone with great qualifications, willing to bring the level of science up at Antioch College and it sounds like he was snuffed out. Bob's response is, ahem, so garbled I'm not sure what he is saying, but if Gould got the shaft in such a manner, it would be a total disgrace. One wonders how some of these people slept at night! Richard Campbell From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 11 00:16:09 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)) Date: Sat Aug 11 00:29:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] the alumni proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <31bd80be9f2d15eaa41c5f78288945b7@antiochians.org> >Good work, folks! It looks very carefully thought through. Thank you, Pam! I'll pass that along. -Michael From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 11 00:26:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)) Date: Sat Aug 11 00:40:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: <3a22a8f70c0c99487bf3a4a32161e0f7@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <70fa4e5e2594455770060592b3a5e696@antiochians.org> >It hasn't been posted yet. Please see http://www.antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20160 >>Did I miss Art Zucker's prompt reply? I will post it as soon as I get a copy. Barbara W. didn't have it handy when she emailed me the new letter, probably because, rightfully so, she was more concerned about the new letter with twenty former trustees as signatories. -Michael From aadole at adelphia.net Sat Aug 11 13:20:28 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Sat Aug 11 10:33:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/10/07 12:02 PM, "Pam Olsen" wrote: > Sorry, Luci, didn't mean to be patronizing. I was responding to your > seemingly instant dismissal of findings of the First Year program research > as simply balderdash, without ever seeing the data. > > All students need structure and challenge, I agree with that. But it > doesn't have to be the same for all students for them to benefit equally, > and they might not benefit from the particular structure that is perceived > as being best by the teacher (my point about my Navajo kids. They did > better when I was more responsive to where they were, instead of concocting > what I thought were wonderful approaches in my head). Ollie Loud was indeed > a very nice man with a fascinating structure to his courses. I could see > how he must have had a wonderful time designing them. But I found that > structure to be oppressive busy work, far more than was necessary to get the > point, and being a significant draw of energy from my other courses. As a > consequence, I don't remember a single thing I "learned" in his class. > > yes, I could have gone somewhere else. But somewhere else would not have > provided me with the things about Antioch that were, to me, special and > continue to be worth keeping. I felt that Antioch was not true to it's > promise academically, i.e., providing students with an innovative education > that was responsive to their personal learning needs. It was very forward > looking with it's jobs and it's community atmosphere, with, I thought, an > extremely traditional (at that time) approach to academics, only moreso. I > found that to be inconsistent. Just my experience. > > What does it have to do with the present crisis? > > For me, it means that people taking charge from afar and designing a > wonderful program for others to teach will probably be lots of fun for them, > and not very effective for Antioch. Antioch will probably be at it's best > if it keeps designing it's curriculum dynamically, in response to it's > students, our changing world, and the passions of the faculty. We teach > best what we feel strongly about to the people we care about. Even if they > throw out the current faculty and hire new ones, this is still going to be > the case. So why do that? > > I said something earlier about giving people a lot of responsibility but no > power, which is what appears to have happened with the Renewal program. > This management style is found to create high stress and anger in the people > with the responsibility and no power. If there is a "toxic" environment at > Antioch, then it probably would be good for the BoT to do some navel gazing > and see if their management style has contributed to this. > > > > Well said, Pam. The role of an effective Board of Trustees is to give money and help raise funds. In my ideal liberal arts college the faculty shapes the curriculum and shares with students in the selection of the president. The president makes an enormous difference (for good or ill) in respect to mission, fund raising, p.r., management, conflict resolution, personnel selection, alumni relations, quality of campus life etc., etc. I argue that an institution thrives when she/he leads, consults, collaborates,and inspires all her constituents--especially staff, students, faculty, and community. Yes, you are right. A distant, bottom line preoccupied BOT that is ignorant of the developmental tasks of late adolescence consulted "experts" and then disempowered the president and the community by creating a top down solution (the renewal plan) to complex problems. Such mismanagement exacerbates the very toxic campus it deplores. Art Dole '46 From aadole at adelphia.net Sat Aug 11 13:31:49 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Sat Aug 11 10:45:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is encouraging. If Antioch College ever does have its own BOT, that new BOT should learn from past mistakes. For one thing, it should not "manage" the college. That's my strong opinion based on half a century in academe. Art Dole '41, professor emeritus of education On 8/10/07 1:55 PM, "da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)" wrote: > August 8, 2007 > > Dear Trustees, > > Thank you for Board Chair Art Zucker's prompt reply to our letter of July > 28. > > We greatly appreciate the Board of Trustees' commitment to resolving Antioch's > structural and governance issues. As Art mentioned, the > suggestions in our letter are in agreement with the substance of the governing > structure that has been previously proposed. In fact, during our time on the > Board these issues were discussed repeatedly. These are not new ideas, but > they are certainly ideas whose time has come. > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 11 11:11:11 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Sat Aug 11 11:24:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <08f30fff9e22fd66ba9a03c56b993e32@antiochians.org> >The president makes an enormous difference (for good or ill) in respect to mission, fund raising, p.r., management, conflict resolution, personnel >selection, alumni relations, quality of campus life etc., etc. I argue that >an institution thrives when she/he leads, consults, collaborates,and >inspires all her constituents--especially staff, students, faculty, and >community. Yes, you are right. A distant, bottom line preoccupied BOT that >is ignorant of the developmental tasks of late adolescence consulted >"experts" and then disempowered the president and the community by creating a top down solution (the renewal plan) to complex problems. Such >mismanagement exacerbates the very toxic campus it deplores. > >Art Dole '46 And yes I agree with both of you. A leader is there to support, and to inspire. In many ways, a leader is a servant. Thank you Art and Pam for your posts. Jane Slater Class of '80 From Sistersara at aol.com Sat Aug 11 17:12:48 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Sat Aug 11 17:26:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed Message-ID: In a message dated 8/9/2007 8:10:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: "Stories, in other words, only 'go' in a limited number of strongly preferred ways, with the two deepest requirements invoking, first, a theme of directionality (linked events proceeding in an ordered sequence for definable reasons, and not as an aimless wandering -- back, forth, and sideways -- to nowhere); and second, a sense of motivation, or definite reasons propelling the sequence (whether we judge the outcomes good or bad). These motivations will be rooted directly in human purposes for stories involving our own species. But tales about nonconscious creatures or inanimate objects must also provide a surrogate for valor (or dishonorable intent for dystopian tales) -- as in the virtue of evolutionary principles that dictate the increasingly general complexity of life, or the lamentable inexorability of thermodynamics in guaranteeing the eventual burnout of the sum. In summary, and at the risk of oversimplification, we like to explain pattern in terms of directionality, and causation in terms of valor. The two central and essential components of any narrative -- pattern and cause -- therefore fall under the biasing rubric of our mental premises. ... I will refer to the small set of primal tales based upon these deep requirements as 'canonical stories.' ..... In other words, and to summarize my principal theme in a phrase, canonical stories predictably 'drive' facts into definite and distorted pathways that validate the outlines and necessary components of these archetypal tales. We therefore fail to note important items in plain sight, while we misread other facts by forcing them into preset mental channels, even when we retain a buried memory of actual events." Bob, for the love of god this is just gobbledegook. You can establish the factual points here, in sequence -- and it is not just a story, it is an example. Point one. In the fall of 1988, when I joined the Alumni Board, Al Guskins made available to members the report Stephen Gould and Joann Argetsinger had provided on the state of Science at the college. I read it. Point two, Seeking to be a good board member, I formulated questions about what they had said, and used various opportunities to get them to elaborate. I wanted to see if any opportunity to help along the process might present itself, and thus the business of asking questions. Point three. I used what I had learned to get others to discuss the issues. Some being people in YSO, many being retired faculty, and others being Antiochians in Academia -- who were interested in Stephen's observations, and some had experiences of their own. Point four -- I added it up. The way it came out is my own responsibility, but the input was a result of seeking out people I thought had different points of view, different experiences in different generations. If you think I am off base, as you clearly do, please answer a some simple questions...what happened to the two million from the Howard Hughes Medical Foundation? What did we buy with it that would lead us back to accredited science programs? On what educational assumptions were these purchases based? Did they fit the model that Guskins had invited Gould and Agretsinger to prepare? If not why not? I am not asking for a deconstruction of a story -- I am asking for an audit of a particular set of resources. I can date one of my conversations with Stephen to a period in the aftermath of the World Series in 1989, because Stephen and I always argued about Baseball. Until I had lived in Minnesota for a few years, I had an undying love for the Cleveland Indians, particularly the team that won the World Series in 1948. I was present at the game where Sachel Page pitched his first home game in the majors, and the way the old Negro Leagues delivered Page to the ball-park on the back of a truck with a dixie land band, and lots of the old heroes of the Negro Leagues doing escort duty. He got off the truck in the uniform of, I believe, the Homewood Grays -- went into the locker room, and returned as an Indian. There were 80 thousand folk there that night, and the place went nuts as Page strutted his stuff on the way to the mound for warm up. This was a little more than a year after Jackie Robinson had come up to the Dodgers -- and rather than the Brooklyn idea of "not noticing race" -- Bill Veck in Cleveland made a festival of it. I always used to rub it in to Stephen that his beloved Yankees had not, at that point, figured how to be a little progressive. Anyhow, in 89, Stephen could not believe the Twins (he always rubbed it in, the bottom dwelling Senators) actually won the Series. He could not believe Kirby Puckette could actually play baseball. He was built all wrong, according to Stephen. How could he be a power hitter with his stance at the plate? How could he leap to the heavens to catch home run quality line drives? In 89 of course, Kirby did both in the 6th game of the World Series -- he robbed the Braves of a clear home run that would have put that 6th game away for them and ended the Series, and then he came back in the next inning, and put a nice one into what we called at the time, Kirby's porch. I can hear myself making my point -- Stephen, we have evidence -- look at that 6th game. "Re-evaluate your basic assumptions about what makes for a superior ball player." Of course it was all in fun -- that argument had been going on since 1958. Anyhow, one of our conversations about Science at Antioch was at the same time as our stylized argument about the value of Kirby as a fielder and home run power hitter. The second conversation would have dated from around 1992, because we also talked about the Clinton Campaign. Stephen had doubts about Clinton based on his experience in Arkansas. If you remember in the early 1990's Arkansas had one of the key evolution and Darwinian theory law-suits, and the opponents of restricting biological science to biblically congruent ideas had recruited Stephen as their expert witness. As a result, he spent a little more than a week on the witness stand, with about half of that being an attack on his credentials as an "expert" by the creationist lawyers. Apparently there were bomb and death threats called in, so during his time in Arkansas, Stephen had to have armed guard protection and all that. Stephen was a little put out that during that week he was witnessing, he never got as much as a phone call from Clinton, who was already pushing ahead with his campaign. Clinton clearly did not want any tracks between himself and Expert Witness Gould. But then when the court finally allowed that Gould could go home, he flew out to Chicago, and who should be on the plane with him, but Clinton -- who, once they were safely over Illinois, came around and thanked him so much for being such a big help, etc., etc., etc. Then Clinton apparently had the nerve to ask Stephen if he would join some sort of "Academics for Clinton" committee. Stephen had come to the conclusion that Clinton wasn't all that hep on putting a little skin on the line for important ideas of consequence. In general, I think his observation was close to true. I don't think Clinton was elected yet when we had this conversation -- so that gives a range of dates when it took place. But since our mutual political hero was FDR -- and for the sake of a good argument, I took the position that FDR's pragmatism probably would have led him to avoid being in the presence of the Expert Darwinian, at least for the record. So anyhow, another of these conversations was between late 91 and after election day in 1992. I always regretted I was unable to find a way to bring Paul Wellstone and Gould together -- I think they would have been an excellent match, and in the right setting, great fun-loving sparring partners. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 11 18:42:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Sat Aug 11 18:55:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9758ae6710f04a54b01e2419584f599d@www.antiochians.org> In a message dated 8/9/2007 8:10:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Sister Sara writes Bob, for the love of god this is just gobbledegook. You can establish the factual points here, in sequence -- and it is not just a story, it is an example. Sally, Humans tell and interact through stories. Stories are usually part persuasive, part interpretive, but are grounded in and reflect culture held in common (the latinate root of communication and community is "communis" -- to hold in common), and are usually told to put forward a particular discourse. In talking about the popular stories of Jim Bowie and the manner in which Bill Buckner "lost" an archetypal baseball game, Stephen Gould writes, "Canonical stories predictably 'drive' facts into definite and distorted pathways that validate the outlines and necessary components of these archetypal tales." Antiochians often interact through narratives of declension -- that is, they tell stories of the decline of Antioch College. These stories are constructed out of anecdote (often generalized to become "data"), conversations (generalized to become analysis), hearsay and gossip (taken to be corroborating examples and fact) and some factual elements, with the direction of the narrative (the decline and fall of Antioch College) driving the facts into patterns that support the discourse of decline. My "gobbledegook" (or rather Stephen's) was simply to say that you are a storyteller, Sally, and that stories have particular patterns that are more about "the biasing rubric of our mental premises" than they are about the truth. I could also tell endless stories (and often do), because I've been present at the College for a much greater span of time than you have. My stories would not be any more or less "true" than your own. In any event, they would not constitute reasoned deliberation. Bob From Sistersara at aol.com Sat Aug 11 21:55:18 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Sat Aug 11 22:08:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed Message-ID: In a message dated 8/11/2007 5:42:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: My "gobbledegook" (or rather Stephen's) was simply to say that you are a storyteller, Sally, and that stories have particular patterns that are more about "the biasing rubric of our mental premises" than they are about the truth. I could also tell endless stories (and often do), because I've been present at the College for a much greater span of time than you have. My stories would not be any more or less "true" than your own. In any event, they would not constitute reasoned deliberation. Bob Bob, can you perhaps address yourself to the questions I asked. I asked about the Hughes 2 million, what was it spent to purchase? etc. go back and read the questions, they don't require any stories to answer. By the way, my parents were close friends with YSO people beginning in 1949 when we moved to Dayton, we attended many college events as well as community events. I have a personal memory of many things Antiochian going back to that date. Some of it did not make sense when I first encountered it, but at a later date things fell into place. On my Father's side of my family we had one member of the sponsoring committee in the YSO area who founded Antioch in the early 1850's. It is only in recent years that I found out much more about the details of his life and work both in Dayton and with respect to why he and his circle were interested in founding Antioch in the Miami Valley in the context of 1850's Ohio. Agreed you have been around YSO in recent years much more than I have been, but then I was just graduating when you became a Freshman. And yes, since I did my graduate work in International Relations and American Studies -- with lots of emphasis on history, I do tend to organize evidence into narrative. But the way you attack a narrative is with a counter-narrative, not with gobbledegook. You add additional pieces to a story that changes its direction or focus, you re-tell with a larger or smaller time line. Of course all history is potentially biased -- the historian who writes a narrative makes selections, and may not have access to all relative documentation. For instance, right now political historians are deep into re-writing cold war history -- why? well the archives from the other side of that war suddenly landed on the table available for anyone with the right language skills to read. Sometimes Historians bias their work by asking the wrong questions, or failing to ask some of the obvious ones. For instance one of my pet peeves these days has to do with the failure of modern Historians trying to explain Afghanistan's recent past, not asking the question about potential Russian-Chinese competition for control of organized Marxism in the region as a reason behind the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Good lord, in every country in South Asia there were two Marxist parties, one classic in the Soviet sense, and another in line with Maoism. And yes, in the early 70's Afghanistan had two Marxist parties that fit the model. Without asking that question you don't consider the role of the Sino-Soviet dispute in the manner in which things played out. I suspect the reason for this is that it was US overt policy that the Communist world was monolithic -- something that really never got properly criticized even though Kissinger and Nixon played the "China Card" which implicitly recognized the depth of the split. But even today, no one seems to want to dig back into the late 60's and early 70's and find the Afghani evidence and incorporate it into the narrative. But then one of the reasons History is always under revision is because someone is always looking in the attic for new evidence. Someone is always putting on differently shaded glasses, and taking a new look at old evidence, old efforts to connect the pieces into a coherent story. So contribute to the narrative -- what happened to the Hughes money Stephen J. Gould helped raise? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 12 22:55:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sun Aug 12 23:08:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... In-Reply-To: <0ce8c7b25e3f583d3ff209de27a25ea5@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <121276f102da2117bd5192f3eb698cbd@www.antiochians.org> Gerry: Would you be the arbiter of who is appropriate for particpation here? Deb >>I forget who the girl was. At first >>I thought it was Jessica Lipnack again, (who was, thank god, outed here as a >>CIA agent) but now I think it was someone else. Harry, disdaining the >>stairs, manfully climbed up right up the face of Corry to pick up his date. >whoa! > >I never said she was an "Agent". > >Agent... implies that she is an operative (field) officer in one of the Intellgence Services of the USA. Which is different than an "analyst" who also may work for the same agencies but they dont do field work at all. the classifcation systems are different. For instance "Analysts" are GS-1 through GS - 12 like people at National Park Service and Field Officers are IS-1 through IS - 12. > >"Agent" in the "Business" refers typically to a forgien national in the pay of the CIA or other agency. > >Lipnack is none of the above so far as I can tell. She merely sells her services to the above. However, in that capacity she has a worldview and skillset that are far from appropriate for participation here. She also is a 2012er and should really be banned. But thats not my call. > >Her husband may be an "Agent". Many Fullbright recipients get those scholarships through CIA or State Department auspices and go on to be agents or even field officers. > >This is just me being precise about what I think based on the evidence at hand. Now.. Mark.. if you have some 40 year old suspicains to share I'm all ears. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 12 23:17:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 12 23:30:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... In-Reply-To: <121276f102da2117bd5192f3eb698cbd@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <67642fcdda9fb052a020bceb4172fd95@www.antiochians.org> I'm too busy working on certain aspect of the business plan to fight with you right now Deb. If you want a nice arguement you get to wait till I'm not busy with any research projects. Which means Wensday tenatively. If I finish all my work then we can a nice arguement. Till then you get to wait. okthxbye >Gerry: > >Would you be the arbiter of who is appropriate for particpation here? > >Deb > >>>I forget who the girl was. At first >>>I thought it was Jessica Lipnack again, (who was, thank god, outed here as a >>>CIA agent) but now I think it was someone else. Harry, disdaining the >>>stairs, manfully climbed up right up the face of Corry to pick up his date. >>whoa! >> >>I never said she was an "Agent". >> >>Agent... implies that she is an operative (field) officer in one of the Intellgence Services of the USA. Which is different than an "analyst" who also may work for the same agencies but they dont do field work at all. the classifcation systems are different. For instance "Analysts" are GS-1 through GS - 12 like people at National Park Service and Field Officers are IS-1 through IS - 12. >> >>"Agent" in the "Business" refers typically to a forgien national in the pay of the CIA or other agency. >> >>Lipnack is none of the above so far as I can tell. She merely sells her services to the above. However, in that capacity she has a worldview and skillset that are far from appropriate for participation here. She also is a 2012er and should really be banned. But thats not my call. >> >>Her husband may be an "Agent". Many Fullbright recipients get those scholarships through CIA or State Department auspices and go on to be agents or even field officers. >> >>This is just me being precise about what I think based on the evidence at hand. Now.. Mark.. if you have some 40 year old suspicains to share I'm all ears. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Sun Aug 12 23:25:51 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Sun Aug 12 23:39:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Everett K. Wilson, not Ed... In-Reply-To: <121276f102da2117bd5192f3eb698cbd@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: actually... that would be late wensday nite, I'm teaching a self-defense class till 11.. so if I'm not to sore or tired we can fight then. Is that okay? If you are really lonely I can email somebody and maybe they can fight with you instead. let me know, ----G _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 02:23:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jack (jack1@mac.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 02:37:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <98e5783cdae682d034a524a785768787@antiochians.org> Sistersara, your stories are wonderful- I'm curious, you generally refer to Al Guskin as Al Guskins. Why is that? Regardless, your tales remind me of the stories my grandpa, bless his soul, used to tell me, some of which I wrote down to remember him by. Here's one for you, I'm sure you'll enjoy it, I bet you'd really get along with him: I leave (as inheritance) these: a box of mint-condition 1918 liberty-head silver dollars. You see, back in those days, rich men would ride around in Zeppelins, dropping coins on people, and one day I seen J. D. Rockefeller flying by. So I run of the house with a big washtub and anyway, about my washtub. I?d just used it that morning to wash my turkey, which in those days was known as a walking bird. We'd always have walking bird on Thanksgiving with all the trimmings: cranberries, injun eyes, yams stuffed with gunpowder. Then we'd all watch football, which in those days was called 'baseball'... Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn?t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...Ah, there's an interesting story behind this nickel. In 1957, I remember it was, I got up in the morning and made myself a piece of toast. I set the toaster to three - medium brown...Not many people know this, but I owned the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. 'A' he'd say. Then 'B'. 'C' would usually follow- I first took a fancy to Mrs. Bouvier because her raspy voice reminded me of my old Victrola. Oh, it was a fine machine with a vulcanized rubber listening tube which you crammed in your ear. The tube would go in easier with some sort of lubricant like linseed oil. My story begins in Nineteen dickety two. We had to say 'dickety' because the Kaiser had stolen our word for 'twenty.' I chased him down the road but gave up after dickety-six miles. Three wars back we called Sauerkraut 'liberty cabbage' and we called liberty cabbage 'super slaw' and back then a suitcase was known as a 'Swedish lunch box.' Of course, nobody knew that but me. Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling. Then after World War Two, it got kinda quiet, 'till Superman challenged FDR to a race around the world. FDR beat him by a furlong, or so the comic books would have you believe. We can?t bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell ?em stories that don?t go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ?em. ?Give me five bees for a quarter,? you?d say. Sistersara wrote: By the way, my parents were close friends with YSO people beginning in 1949 when we moved to Dayton, we attended many college events as well as community events. I have a personal memory of many things Antiochian going back to that date. Some of it did not make sense when I first encountered it, but at a later date things fell into place. On my Father's side of my family we had one member of the sponsoring committee in the YSO area who founded Antioch in the early 1850's. It is only in recent years that I found out much more about the details of his life and work both in Dayton and with respect to why he and his circle were interested in founding Antioch in the Miami Valley in the context of 1850's Ohio. Agreed you have been around YSO in recent years much more than I have been, but then I was just graduating when you became a Freshman. And yes, since I did my graduate work in International Relations and American Studies -- with lots of emphasis on history, I do tend to organize evidence into narrative. But the way you attack a narrative is with a counter-narrative, not with gobbledegook. You add additional pieces to a story that changes its direction or focus, you re-tell with a larger or smaller time line. Of course all history is potentially biased -- the historian who writes a narrative makes selections, and may not have access to all relative documentation. For instance, right now political historians are deep into re-writing cold war history -- why? well the archives from the other side of that war suddenly landed on the table available for anyone with the right language skills to read. Sometimes Historians bias their work by asking the wrong questions, or failing to ask some of the obvious ones. For instance one of my pet peeves these days has to do with the failure of modern Historians trying to explain Afghanistan's recent past, not asking the question about potential Russian-Chinese competition for control of organized Marxism in the region as a reason behind the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Good lord, in every country in South Asia there were two Marxist parties, one classic in the Soviet sense, and another in line with Maoism. And yes, in the early 70's Afghanistan had two Marxist parties that fit the model. Without asking that question you don't consider the role of the Sino-Soviet dispute in the manner in which things played out. I suspect the reason for this is that it was US overt policy that the Communist world was monolithic -- something that really never got properly criticized even though Kissinger and Nixon played the "China Card" which implicitly recognized the depth of the split. But even today, no one seems to want to dig back into the late 60's and early 70's and find the Afghani evidence and incorporate it into the narrative. But then one of the reasons History is always under revision is because someone is always looking in the attic for new evidence. Someone is always putting on differently shaded glasses, and taking a new look at old evidence, old efforts to connect the pieces into a coherent story. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Mon Aug 13 10:17:35 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Mon Aug 13 10:30:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: AAUP letter to Antioch Inside Higher Education Message-ID: This is also on antiochians.org ----- Original Message ----- Monday, August 13, 2007 9:44:55 AM Pulse From: Linda Sattem Subject: AAUP letter to Antioch Inside Higher Education To: Announcements Pulse with links to the letter from AAUP http://insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/13/qt Linda Lee Sattem, Ph.D., PCC/S Director, Counseling and Wellness Center Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs OH 45387-1697 (937) 769-1129 direct (937) 769-1130 Center (937) 769-1125 fax E-mail is not a secure form of communication, and precautions need to be taken to protect all confidential information. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Mon Aug 13 11:48:29 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Mon Aug 13 12:01:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Honorary Alumni Community Government Member! Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Friday, August 10, 2007 4:06:07 PM Message From: Chelsea Martens Subject: Honorary Alumni Community Government Member! To: ncrow@penberg.com Attachments: AlumniHonoraryCGMembers.doc 28K Hi Folks, Spread the word! CG is ready to make you an Honorary Alumni Community Government Member! See the attached form. Thanks, Chelsea Chelsea Martens Community Manager Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs, OH 45387 937-769-1050 cmartens@antioch-college.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AlumniHonoraryCGMembers.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27648 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://w3.antioch.edu/pipermail/alumni-chat/attachments/20070813/26a703fc/AlumniHonoraryCGMembers.doc From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 12:09:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 12:22:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: <98e5783cdae682d034a524a785768787@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <76c658a9b85600603878ec3d07a336c0@www.antiochians.org> Dear Jack: I think your post would be a great starting point for a "teachable moment" on ageism. Thank you! Deb >Sistersara, your stories are wonderful- I'm curious, you generally refer to Al Guskin as Al Guskins. Why is that? > >Regardless, your tales remind me of the stories my grandpa, bless his soul, used to tell me, some of which I wrote down to remember him by. Here's one for you, I'm sure you'll enjoy it, I bet you'd really get along with him: > >I leave (as inheritance) these: a box of mint-condition 1918 liberty-head silver dollars. You see, back in those days, rich men would ride around in Zeppelins, dropping coins on people, and one day I seen J. D. Rockefeller flying by. So I run of the house with a big washtub and anyway, about my washtub. I?d just used it that morning to wash my turkey, which in those days was known as a walking bird. We'd always have walking bird on Thanksgiving with all the trimmings: cranberries, injun eyes, yams stuffed with gunpowder. Then we'd all watch football, which in those days was called 'baseball'... Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn?t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...Ah, there's an interesting story behind this nickel. In 1957, I remember it was, I got up in the morning and made myself a piece of toast. I set the toaster to three - medium >brown...Not many people know this, but I owned the first radio in Springfield. Not much on the air then, just Edison reciting the alphabet over and over. 'A' he'd say. Then 'B'. 'C' would usually follow- I first took a fancy to Mrs. Bouvier because her raspy voice reminded me of my old Victrola. Oh, it was a fine machine with a vulcanized rubber listening tube which you crammed in your ear. The tube would go in easier with some sort of lubricant like linseed oil. My story begins in Nineteen dickety two. We had to say 'dickety' because the Kaiser had stolen our word for 'twenty.' I chased him down the road but gave up after dickety-six miles. Three wars back we called Sauerkraut 'liberty cabbage' and we called liberty cabbage 'super slaw' and back then a suitcase was known as a 'Swedish lunch box.' Of course, nobody knew that but me. Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling. Then after World War Two, it got kinda quiet, 'till Superman >challenged FDR to a race around the world. FDR beat him by a furlong, or so the comic books would have you believe. We can?t bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell ?em stories that don?t go anywhere - like the time I caught the ferry over to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ?em. ?Give me five bees for a quarter,? you?d say. > > >Sistersara wrote: > >By the way, my parents were close friends with YSO people beginning in 1949 >when we moved to Dayton, we attended many college events as well as >community events. I have a personal memory of many things Antiochian going back to >that date. Some of it did not make sense when I first encountered it, but at >a later date things fell into place. On my Father's side of my family we had >one member of the sponsoring committee in the YSO area who founded Antioch >in the early 1850's. It is only in recent years that I found out much more >about the details of his life and work both in Dayton and with respect to why >he and his circle were interested in founding Antioch in the Miami Valley in >the context of 1850's Ohio. Agreed you have been around YSO in recent years >much more than I have been, but then I was just graduating when you became a >Freshman. > >And yes, since I did my graduate work in International Relations and >American Studies -- with lots of emphasis on history, I do tend to organize evidence >into narrative. But the way you attack a narrative is with a >counter-narrative, not with gobbledegook. You add additional pieces to a story that >changes its direction or focus, you re-tell with a larger or smaller time line. Of >course all history is potentially biased -- the historian who writes a >narrative makes selections, and may not have access to all relative documentation. >For instance, right now political historians are deep into re-writing cold >war history -- why? well the archives from the other side of that war >suddenly landed on the table available for anyone with the right language skills to >read. Sometimes Historians bias their work by asking the wrong questions, >or failing to ask some of the obvious ones. For instance one of my pet peeves >these days has to do with the failure of modern Historians trying to explain >Afghanistan's recent past, not asking the question about potential >Russian-Chinese competition for control of organized Marxism in the region as a reason >behind the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Good lord, in every country >in South Asia there were two Marxist parties, one classic in the Soviet >sense, and another in line with Maoism. And yes, in the early 70's Afghanistan >had two Marxist parties that fit the model. Without asking that question you >don't consider the role of the Sino-Soviet dispute in the manner in which >things played out. I suspect the reason for this is that it was US overt policy >that the Communist world was monolithic -- something that really never got >properly criticized even though Kissinger and Nixon played the "China Card" >which implicitly recognized the depth of the split. But even today, no one >seems to want to dig back into the late 60's and early 70's and find the >Afghani evidence and incorporate it into the narrative. But then one of the >reasons History is always under revision is because someone is always looking in >the attic for new evidence. Someone is always putting on differently shaded >glasses, and taking a new look at old evidence, old efforts to connect the >pieces into a coherent story. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 13:15:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 13:28:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees replying to Zucker replying to former Trustees Message-ID: <6fe7419ae2958fe0443d47e5bef515f9@www.antiochians.org> Former Trustees and Zucker letters here: http://antiochians.org/alumni_board/former-trustees-reply-to-art-zucker-chair-antioch-university-board-of-trustees/ >8/10/07 >by Barbara Winslow Posted Home www.antiochians.org > >"We believe that such a strong and immediate signal is essential to building the trust necessary for there to be any hope of raising the considerable amount of money that will be needed to re-open the College." The overall tone of this 8/10 letter seems overly conciliatory, especially since Zucker seems to be barely tossing them a bone. Is this use of the language "re-open the College" a capitulation to the current BOT's plans, in essence agreeing to the suspension of operations in July 2008? At the 8/6 NYC Chapter meeting, Barbara Winslow gave me the distinct impression that these former Trustees were opposed to closing the College in July 2008. If this is not the case, this movement by the former Trustees will likely lose a lot of support. Can someone please clarify their position ASAP??? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 13:16:29 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 13:29:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15053f8b6f75bd27563100c8071cbfd7@www.antiochians.org> Former Trustees and Zucker letters here: http://antiochians.org/alumni_board/former-trustees-reply-to-art-zucker-chair-antioch-university-board-of-trustees/ >8/10/07 >by Barbara Winslow Posted Home www.antiochians.org > >"We believe that such a strong and immediate signal is essential to building the trust necessary for there to be any hope of raising the considerable amount of money that will be needed to re-open the College." The overall tone of this 8/10 letter seems overly conciliatory, especially since Zucker seems to be barely tossing them a bone. Is this use of the language "re-open the College" a capitulation to the current BOT's plans, in essence agreeing to the suspension of operations in July 2008? At the 8/6 NYC Chapter meeting, Barbara Winslow gave me the distinct impression that these former Trustees were opposed to closing the College in July 2008. If this is not the case, this movement by the former Trustees will likely lose a lot of support. Can someone please clarify their position ASAP??? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 13:20:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 13:33:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: <76c658a9b85600603878ec3d07a336c0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <3b5dbc0c59ff0de65db16741f1e3d954@antiochians.org> Okay, Jack's post made me laugh. :D From jyager at antioch-college.edu Mon Aug 13 13:41:32 2007 From: jyager at antioch-college.edu (Jill Yager) Date: Mon Aug 13 13:54:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Steve Gould and Antioch sciences In-Reply-To: <20070813063702.E2A416100ECC@w3.antioch.edu> References: <20070813063702.E2A416100ECC@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: I have to jump in to dispel several myths about the Hughes Grant to the Science Area. I was the Director of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute grant for several years after another faculty member left. The grant was written by Antioch College science faculty. Steve Gould had NOTHING to do with the grant. We received the sum of $600,000, NOT 2 million. The money was used for many educational goals, including: purchase of science lab equipment, funding an outreach program to Springfield elementary school classes, buying a van for that project and hiring students as coordinators of the project, funding science co-op opportunities, faculty research. And to correct another false assumption written by the person on the chat, all of the sciences listed as NOT accredited, with the exception of chemistry, are NEVER accredited separately by any organization. Antioch has an excellent record of successful science alums who go on to earn PhDs, as well as become medical doctors, veterinarians. And many of our alums enter other fields related to science. My request is that the alums reading this understand that we have had a very viable science program. This next school year will be challenging, however, due to actions taken to not fill vacancies with full time staff. Jill Yager, PhD Prof. Environmental and Biological Sciences Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs OH 45387 phone: 937/ 769-1182 fax: 937/ 769-1169 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 13:43:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 13:57:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: <15053f8b6f75bd27563100c8071cbfd7@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Former Trustees and Zucker letters here: >http://antiochians.org/alumni_board/former-trustees-reply-to-art-zucker-chair-antioch-university-board-of-trustees/ > >>8/10/07 >>by Barbara Winslow Posted Home www.antiochians.org >> >>"We believe that such a strong and immediate signal is essential to building the trust necessary for there to be any hope of raising the considerable amount of money that will be needed to re-open the College." >The overall tone of this 8/10 letter seems overly conciliatory, especially since Zucker seems to be barely tossing them a bone. Is this use of the language "re-open the College" a capitulation to the current BOT's plans, in essence agreeing to the suspension of operations in July 2008? > >At the 8/6 NYC Chapter meeting, Barbara Winslow gave me the distinct impression that these former Trustees were opposed to closing the College in July 2008. If this is not the case, this movement by the former Trustees will likely lose a lot of support. > >Can someone please clarify their position ASAP??? I don't believe that they want to capitulate to the current BOT's plan to close the college starting July 1, 2008. However, let me get Barbara on down here to answer your questions in full. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 15:27:13 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Mon Aug 13 15:40:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8be46262331356668e34a20152ea5e30@www.antiochians.org> Sister Sara In a message dated 8/11/2007 5:42:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: Bob, can you perhaps address yourself to the questions I asked. I asked about the Hughes 2 million, what was it spent to purchase? etc. go back and read the questions, they don't require any stories to answer. Sally, Professor Jill Yager responded to this question on another thread, copied below. Bob I have to jump in to dispel several myths about the Hughes Grant to the Science Area. I was the Director of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute grant for several years after another faculty member left. The grant was written by Antioch College science faculty. Steve Gould had NOTHING to do with the grant. We received the sum of $600,000, NOT 2 million. The money was used for many educational goals, including: purchase of science lab equipment, funding an outreach program to Springfield elementary school classes, buying a van for that project and hiring students as coordinators of the project, funding science co-op opportunities, faculty research. And to correct another false assumption written by the person on the chat, all of the sciences listed as NOT accredited, with the exception of chemistry, are NEVER accredited separately by any organization. Antioch has an excellent record of successful science alums who go on to earn PhDs, as well as become medical doctors, veterinarians. And many of our alums enter other fields related to science. My request is that the alums reading this understand that we have had a very viable science program. This next school year will be challenging, however, due to actions taken to not fill vacancies with full time staff. Jill Yager, PhD Prof. Environmental and Biological Sciences Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs OH 45387 phone: 937/ 769-1182 fax: 937/ 769-1169 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 16:40:45 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 16:54:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Gould's efforts torpedoed In-Reply-To: <8be46262331356668e34a20152ea5e30@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: > >The money was used for many educational goals, including: purchase of >science lab equipment, funding an outreach program to Springfield >elementary school classes, buying a van for that project and hiring >students as coordinators of the project, Was that Project BIOS? Michael did that co-op. That was AWESOME. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 13 20:37:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (megan (grinrose@aol.com)) Date: Mon Aug 13 20:51:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Web Seminar Info Message-ID: Can be found at http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/askaquestion.html From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 10:37:09 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 10:50:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Former Trustees Reply to Art Zucker Letter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <313c29990b9ada83265481eaef0419f1@antiochians.org> >I don't believe that they want to capitulate to the current BOT's plan to close the college starting July 1, 2008. However, let me get Barbara on down here to answer your questions in full. Thanks. Looking forward to hearing from Barbara on this. From pas0705 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 11:26:15 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Tue Aug 14 11:39:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Open Letter to the AU Board of Trustees Message-ID: <127933.26123.qm@web63908.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I recently sent my own letter to the Board of Trustees. Below is a copy of my letter. -Laura '95 Greetings- My name is Laura Fathauer. I was an Antioch College student from 1990 to 1995, and a staff member from 1997 to 2002. I received my B.S in Mathematics from Antioch College in 1995, and my M.S. in Mathematics from Wright State University in 1998. In January 2002 Antioch College chose a delegation of community members to send to the February 2002 Board of Trustees meeting. I was chosen by the non-union staff to be their representative. After I was chosen, I did extensive research to understand the financial difficulties faced by the University that year. Sources I utilized included Board of Trustees minutes that were provided to me, without hesitation, by the Chancellor's office at that time. Last week I submitted a request to the University Administration for access to Board of Trustees minutes and reports for the last four years; documents that have historically been provided to Antiochiana. In declining the request, the Chancellor informed me that those records ?are not for public consumption? I cannot say that I am surprised that this recent request was denied. However, I am deeply disappointed that Antioch College, a supposed ?model for democracy?, does not have access to records of open meetings of its governing bodies, meetings where major decisions concerning the institution's future have occurred. I am disappointed that the corporation of Antioch University has chosen to act like a corporation, rather then as an institution with solid traditions of community participation and shared governance. There are ongoing debates regarding the viability of the current governance structure of Antioch University and the value of the current structure to Antioch College. While it is arguable that there is an inherent flaw to the current structure, it is clear that there are definite failings of the processes that have been in place over the last six years. I would like to highlight the two biggest failings that I have observed. Today, the Antioch College community has been asked to trust the decision made by the Board of Trustees to close the college, and to trust the leadership of the University Chancellor in the re-opening of an undergraduate residential program called Antioch College. This call for the College community's faith occurs at the tail end of years of mistrust; however this mistrust has not been a one-way mistrust of the Board and the University by the College. A mutual mistrust has persisted over the last six years, and it is a mutual mistrust that must be overcome to move forward. For many years now, a mistrust of Antioch College has built up within the rest of the University and even the Board. There currently exists a mistrust of the financial management of the College, a mistrust of the governing structures within the College, and yes, even a mistrust of the very culture of Antioch College. The cause of this mistrust is debatable; some people would point to the motivations of certain individuals, some would point to the conflicting and/or incomplete information provided to the various constituencies, some would point to the unequal representation and the position of Antioch College within Antioch University, and some would point to the culture of the University Administration. -Mistrust of the College finances is evident in persistent comments that the College has ?run a deficit for decades?, even though this is not true according to budgetary practices in place prior to the Board's Financial Stabilization in 2002. -Mistrust of the College is evident in that the College community has never been provided clear reasoning of the budgetary practice whereby gains on the College's endowment are apparently booked at the University level; and are as far as we can tell used to help offset the annual ?approved deficit? of the College. -Mistrust of the College program is evident in comments attributed to Ormond Smythe, the Academic Dean for AU Seattle. In online comments, he blasts the College for failing to have a program sufficient to maintain enrollment. How is it that Antioch University's own leading community members are seemingly unaware of the work done by the Renewal Commission and the resultant curriculum? Why are they not aware of the enrollment impact caused by the sped-up implementation of the Renewal curriculum, which required Admissions to recruit for a program while it was being developed? I believe the other failing that happened on many occasions over the last six years was the frequency in which the Board was asked to make ?management? decisions, without sufficient information to know what the impact would be. I believe the focus on the details of some of these management issues likely interfered with the Board's ability to see the overall picture, and hence prevented the Board's ability to effectively steer the institution. In particular, the years between 2001 and 2004 marked a series of financial cuts mandated or passed by the Board to deal with financial difficulties of Antioch University. While external events during that period may have warranted financial changes (such as the NCA review or the stock market decline following 9-11), and while the Board may have acted in the best interests of the institution given what was presented to the Board, it is indisputable the lasting impact these top-down budget cuts had on the College and its stability. The option to close the College appears at its core to also only be a 'management' decision, judging from the information currently available. The College's closure was a financial option, which failed to incorporate the commitment to a viable institution shared by College faculty, staff, and alumni. It was a budgetary option, which could not measure the importance of the College to the University. It was a recommendation ?preferred.. by the university management,? pursued with almost no participation from anyone in the College community. By contrast, the nature of the problem faced by the Board today is not a management decision. It is not a financial decision. Today, the Board faces a decision of governance. How are you going to lead the institution today? How much are you willing to trust the College faculty, staff, students, and alumni? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow From pas0705 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 14 11:54:28 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Tue Aug 14 12:07:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Response to my initial request for BoT minutes and reports Message-ID: <473454.8448.qm@web63912.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- "Toni A. Murdock" wrote: > Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:43:31 -0400 > Subject: Re: Request for BoT Minutes & reports > To: "Laura Fathauer" > CC: azucker@nc.rr.com, dweaver@martinbrowne.com, > "Karen Ely" , "Leslie Bates" > > From: "Toni A. Murdock" > > We are not able to provide these documents to you as > they are not for > public consumption. > > > > > > Toni Murdock, Ph.D. > Chancellor > Antioch University > 150 E. South College > Yellow Springs, 45387 > TEL (937) 769-1351 > FAX (937) 769-1350 > tamurdock@antioch.edu > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 12:03:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 12:17:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Faculty Legal Information Fund donations Message-ID: <6005722a1a958f72fc7b750cc1c13df6@antiochians.org> ANTIOCH FACULTY LEGAL INFORMATION FUND DONATIONS (http://antiochfaculty.org/): >http://antiochfaculty.org/ will get you there, find the Donation button. May we please please PLEASE get this posted on the main antiochians.org homepage IMMEDIATELY, preferably in the high profile SAVE ANTIOCH upper right corner right next to the donations link to the should-be-in-bold-face Revival Fund??? We need to support each other, and the faculty are the ones arguably most deserving of our support since (1) they have stuck it out through thick and thin, showing absolute loyalty and devotion to the College, and (2) they may be the contingent to offer the only viable legal footing on which to stand and fight. Our goals our the same: to keep Antioch College open and thriving and its legacy alive and responsive to the modern world. Simple stuff. Power of the Internets. Put it to work for us. Win a victory for humanity. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 12:05:24 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 12:18:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Response to my initial request for BoT minutes and rep In-Reply-To: <473454.8448.qm@web63912.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <52b0d3df29bafb55242d24f5d724b65d@antiochians.org> Wow. That's terse. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 13:26:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 13:39:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Steve Gould and Antioch sciences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I have to jump in to dispel several myths about the Hughes Grant to the >Science Area. > >I was the Director of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute grant for >several years after another faculty member left. > >The grant was written by Antioch College science faculty. >Steve Gould had NOTHING to do with the grant. >We received the sum of $600,000, NOT 2 million. >The money was used for many educational goals, including: purchase of >science lab equipment, funding an outreach program to Springfield >elementary school classes, buying a van for that project and hiring >students as coordinators of the project, funding science co-op >opportunities, faculty research. > >My request is that the alums reading this understand that we have had a >very viable science program. This next school year will be challenging, >however, due to actions taken to not fill vacancies with full time staff. Yes! Project Bios, I remember it well and fondly. I was one of the co-oping science majors that participated in this program and found it to be extremely rewarding as well as important. As a transfer student, I had studied science at several other colleges before attending Antioch, one of which counted scientists from the Brookhaven National Laboratory amongst its adjunct faculty. Not only did I find the science program at Antioch equally as rigorous, and in some cases more so, but also better taught and much more accessible thanks to Jill, Stan, Kab, and many other dedicated science faculty. Shame on anyone for suggesting otherwise. From afrye at bitwisesystems.com Tue Aug 14 13:41:07 2007 From: afrye at bitwisesystems.com (Ann Frye) Date: Tue Aug 14 13:54:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Open Letter to the AU Board of Trustees In-Reply-To: <127933.26123.qm@web63908.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <127933.26123.qm@web63908.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46C1E933.3010509@bitwisesystems.com> Thank you, Laura. Ann >I recently sent my own letter to the Board of >Trustees. Below is a copy of my letter. > >-Laura '95 > > >Greetings- > >My name is Laura Fathauer. I was an Antioch College >student from 1990 to 1995, and a staff member from >1997 to 2002. I received my B.S in Mathematics from >Antioch College in 1995, and my M.S. in Mathematics >from Wright State University in 1998. > >In January 2002 Antioch College chose a delegation of >community members to send to the February 2002 Board >of Trustees meeting. I was chosen by the non-union >staff to be their representative. After I was chosen, >I did extensive research to understand the financial >difficulties faced by the University that year. >Sources I utilized included Board of Trustees minutes >that were provided to me, without hesitation, by the >Chancellor's office at that time. > >Last week I submitted a request to the University >Administration for access to Board of Trustees minutes >and reports for the last four years; documents that >have historically been provided to Antiochiana. In >declining the request, the Chancellor informed me that >those records ?are not for public consumption? > >I cannot say that I am surprised that this recent >request was denied. > >However, I am deeply disappointed that Antioch >College, a supposed ?model for democracy?, does not >have access to records of open meetings of its >governing bodies, meetings where major decisions >concerning the institution's future have occurred. I >am disappointed that the corporation of Antioch >University has chosen to act like a corporation, >rather then as an institution with solid traditions of >community participation and shared governance. > >There are ongoing debates regarding the viability of >the current governance structure of Antioch University >and the value of the current structure to Antioch >College. While it is arguable that there is an >inherent flaw to the current structure, it is clear >that there are definite failings of the processes that >have been in place over the last six years. I would >like to highlight the two biggest failings that I have >observed. > >Today, the Antioch College community has been asked to >trust the decision made by the Board of Trustees to >close the college, and to trust the leadership of the >University Chancellor in the re-opening of an >undergraduate residential program called Antioch >College. This call for the College community's faith >occurs at the tail end of years of mistrust; however >this mistrust has not been a one-way mistrust of the >Board and the University by the College. A mutual >mistrust has persisted over the last six years, and it >is a mutual mistrust that must be overcome to move >forward. > >For many years now, a mistrust of Antioch College has >built up within the rest of the University and even >the Board. There currently exists a mistrust of the >financial management of the College, a mistrust of the >governing structures within the College, and yes, even >a mistrust of the very culture of Antioch College. > >The cause of this mistrust is debatable; some people >would point to the motivations of certain individuals, >some would point to the conflicting and/or incomplete >information provided to the various constituencies, >some would point to the unequal representation and the >position of Antioch College within Antioch University, >and some would point to the culture of the University >Administration. > >-Mistrust of the College finances is evident in >persistent comments that the College has ?run a >deficit for decades?, even though this is not true >according to budgetary practices in place prior to the >Board's Financial Stabilization in 2002. > >-Mistrust of the College is evident in that the >College community has never been provided clear >reasoning of the budgetary practice whereby gains on >the College's endowment are apparently booked at the >University level; and are as far as we can tell used >to help offset the annual ?approved deficit? of the >College. > >-Mistrust of the College program is evident in >comments attributed to Ormond Smythe, the Academic >Dean for AU Seattle. In online comments, he blasts the >College for failing to have a program sufficient to >maintain enrollment. > >How is it that Antioch University's own leading >community members are seemingly unaware of the work >done by the Renewal Commission and the resultant >curriculum? Why are they not aware of the enrollment >impact caused by the sped-up implementation of the >Renewal curriculum, which required Admissions to >recruit for a program while it was being developed? > >I believe the other failing that happened on many >occasions over the last six years was the frequency in >which the Board was asked to make ?management? >decisions, without sufficient information to know what >the impact would be. I believe the focus on the >details of some of these management issues likely >interfered with the Board's ability to see the overall >picture, and hence prevented the Board's ability to >effectively steer the institution. > >In particular, the years between 2001 and 2004 marked >a series of financial cuts mandated or passed by the >Board to deal with financial difficulties of Antioch >University. While external events during that period >may have warranted financial changes (such as the NCA >review or the stock market decline following 9-11), >and while the Board may have acted in the best >interests of the institution given what was presented >to the Board, it is indisputable the lasting impact >these top-down budget cuts had on the College and its >stability. > >The option to close the College appears at its core to >also only be a 'management' decision, judging from the >information currently available. The College's closure >was a financial option, which failed to incorporate >the commitment to a viable institution shared by >College faculty, staff, and alumni. It was a budgetary >option, which could not measure the importance of the >College to the University. It was a recommendation >?preferred.. by the university management,? pursued >with almost no participation from anyone in the >College community. > >By contrast, the nature of the problem faced by the >Board today is not a management decision. It is not a >financial decision. Today, the Board faces a decision >of governance. How are you going to lead the >institution today? How much are you willing to trust >the College faculty, staff, students, and alumni? > > > > From duffy at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 14 13:54:59 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Tue Aug 14 14:08:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: [Chapters] August 5th Antioch Alumni Meeting Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Tuesday, August 14, 2007 1:16:08 PM Bulk Message From: conrad haupt Subject: [Chapters] August 5th Antioch Alumni Meeting To: "S. Fred Anliot" Fritz Casey Leininger Scott Clark Gilbert Davis Rowley Elliston Dianne Fishbein John Fisher John Fleischman Jessica Frechette-Gutfre Caeli Wendy Grab Joy Bud Haupt Marcia Hendrick Tom Hester Lianne Howard Jill J Howard Kapp "Rev R. Gwinn Lacy" Gretchen Langdon Pamela Mackey Lewis Marcuson Colleen McCarty Trenholm Meyer Carol Perlstein Ginger Rhodes "Dr. Frederick Scharf" Dan Scheiman Joel Singerman Christine Wands amaruyama@antioch-college.edu Steve Duffy cmarens@antioch-college.edu chapters@antiochians.org Attachments: cincinnati chapter roster.xls 21K Chicago Chapter Press Relea.doc 12K Reply to Geo. Will - Wands.doc 20K PledgeCardWeb.pdf 64K Greetings fellow Antiochians! This email is being sent as a followup/feedback message to all Antioch alumni in the Greater Cincinnati area who responded to our invitation to the August 5th meeting, both those who attended the meeting and those who expressed an interest in being kept in the loop. We wish to thank everyone who came out on a Sunday afternoon for the first meeting of the revitalized Cincinnati chapter. It was good to reconnect and share memories with Antioch friends we hadn't seen for decades or more. Thanks also to Aimee Maruyama, '96, of the College Alumni Office, Steve Duffy, '77, library staff and recent member of the Alumni Board, and Debra Oswald, Head Librarian, for coming down from Yellow Springs to provide valuable information on the current situation suurounding Antioch College. Viewpoints and ideas concerning the college's present predicament and what could or should be done about it, covered a broad spectrum. Feelings ranged from anger, frustration and sadness to guarded optimism. Almost everyone expressed affection for Antioch College and attested to the lasting impact of the Antioch experience on their lives. Some were motivated to make an immediate contribution to the Antioch Revival Fund, while others adopted a "wait and see" attitude. While no motions were adopted, there was general agreement on the following: ? Support for the aims of the College Alumni Association and its campaign to seek a reversal of the University Board's decision to suspend college operations in July, 2008. ? Continue the initiative to activate a Greater Cincinnati Chapter of the Antioch Alumni Association and the scheduling of a second chapter meeting sometime in the fall. ? Establish an email-based communications network to keep Cincinnati alumni up-to-date on the progress of the association's efforts and other developments relating to the "campaign to save Antioch." ? Inform the Alumni board that our chapter is willing to offer hospitality and other forms of assistance to alumni from other regions who wish to be on hand for the special meeting of the University Board scheduled to be held in Cincinnati on Saturday, August 25th. The following attachments consist of documents which may be of interest to you: ? A list of the names, addresses and contact info, of all Cincinnati area alumni who have expressed an interest in being kept informed about current developments concerning the college and the Cincinnati Alumni chapter; ? A recent public statement released by the Antioch Alumni Chapter in Chicago This will give you an idea of what Alumni are doing in other communities; ? A letter written by Cincinnati resident, Christine Wands, who attended our meeting and is the parent of a present day Antioch Student. The letter, sent to the editors of several newspapers, was her response to syndicated columnist George Will's widely published op-ed piece exppounding on his view that ?Antioch deserves to close.? . ? A printable copy of the Pledge Form for contributions to the "College Revival Fund", which was established by the Alumni Association as the principal repository for donations to be used to assure the continued operation of the college. Finally, here's a hint of what is being planned for our fall chapter meeting: The tentative date is Sunday, October 7th. We are inviting several current Antioch students to join us for a face to face discussion. We will hear directly about their Antioch educational experiences and the impact of the college's impending closing on their lives. Keep in touch and feel free to get back to any of us with your comments or suggestions. Sincerely, Bud Haupt '53 Joy Haupt '57 Ginger Rhodes '75 Caeli Good '93 Organizing Committee Antioch Alumni Association Greater Cincinnati Chapter _______________________________________________ Chapters mailing list Chapters@antiochians.org http://antiochians.org/mailman/listinfo/chapters_antiochians.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: PledgeCardWeb.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 65275 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://w3.antioch.edu/pipermail/alumni-chat/attachments/20070814/a8882611/PledgeCardWeb-0001.pdf From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 14:00:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 14:14:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Response to my initial request for BoT minutes and rep In-Reply-To: <52b0d3df29bafb55242d24f5d724b65d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <2394f1d5d77c42058054a2353a35496b@antiochians.org> Laura, Perhaps you should ask Nancy Crow to request them in accordance with 1702.15 Corporation to keep books and records of account and minutes of proceedings. Each corporation shall keep correct and complete books and records of account, together with minutes of the proceedings of its incorporators, members, directors, and committees of the directors or members. Subject to limitations prescribed in the articles or the regulations upon the right of members of a corporation to examine the books and records, all books and records of a corporation, including the membership records prescribed by section 1702.13 of the Revised Code, may be examined by any member or director or the agent or attorney of either, for any reasonable and proper purpose and at any reasonable time. As a member, even ex officio she should have access. Whether or not she can then let everyone else see them, I don't know. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 14 15:00:58 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Tue Aug 14 15:14:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Yellow Springs group invites public to view Antioch U Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:58:07 PM Message From: Judith Wolert-Maldonado Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Yellow Springs group invites public to view Antioch Univer To: "dchiddister@ysnews.com" "sirwin@coxohio.com" <7online@whiotv.com> alee@wyso.org Cc: "laskeland@sbcglobal.net" "alice@alicerobrish.com" "jhempfling@woh.rr.com" "nealcran@erinet.com" "tonydallas@earthlink.net" "migiwaorimo@earthlink.net" "brnspring@yahoo.com" "carlhyde@yellowsprings.com" "brookieshouse@mac.com" abohlen@antioch-college.edu deagleson@antioch-college.edu Chris amayurama@antioch-college.edu jbecker@antioch-college.edu Steven Duffy vadams@antioch-college.edu cmartens@antioch-college.edu "corrifrohlich@gmail.com" "christian.feuerstein@gmail.com" "caelimg@fuse.net" Carl Bryan FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Contact: Yellow Springs Residents in Support of the Antioch College Revival Resolution Contact Person: Judith Wolert-Maldonado, Antioch College alumna Telephone Number: (937) 767-0118 Email Address: juju70@msn.com Web site affiliation: www.antiochians.org (Antioch College alumni are responsible for the website's content) AD-HOC GROUP HOSTS LOCAL VIEWING OF ANTIOCH UNIVERSITY'S WEB-BASED FINANCIAL PRESENTATION Yellow Springs, Ohio, August 14, 2007 ? The Yellow Springs Residents in Support of the Antioch College Revival Resolution will host a public viewing of a web-based financial presentation by Antioch University Chancellor Toni Murdock and Board of Trustees Chair Art Zucker at Epic Bookshop, 118 Dayton Street, Yellow Springs, Ohio, on Thursday, August 16, 2007 at 8:00PM EDT. The ad-hoc group plans to facilitate a brief discussion after the web-based presentation. The meeting time will also be a chance for citizens who want to keep Antioch College open, to re-connect and prepare for next week's August 25th special meeting of the Antioch University Board of Trustees in Cincinnati. Many out-of-town visitors are expected to come into southwestern Ohio for the August 25th meeting. The ad-hoc group is looking for local residents who can provide rides to and from the airport, host the Antioch College alumni visitors in their homes and assist in car pool rides to the August 25th, Cincinnati meeting. Coffee, tea and smoothie drinks will be available for purchase at the bookshop during the webcast meeting. TWO IMPORTANT LINKS TO PREPARE FOR THE WEBCAST: To register for the webcast go to: http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/askaquestion.html To ask questions to Chancellor Murdock and Board Chair Art Zucker prior to or during the webcast go to: http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/askaquestion.html#question For additional information Contact: Judith Wolert-Maldonado, (937) 767-0118, juju70@msn.com # # # From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 20:06:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 20:19:43 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Yellow Springs group invites pu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My problem is that to participate in this meeting, I have to download and install Microsoft Media Player and Real Player. I'm trying to live my life without Microsoft software, which is why I bought an iMac. Any suggestions on alternative software that would work? Otherwise, I won't be there. John Hevelin '68 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 21:09:24 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 21:22:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Yellow Springs group invites pu In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <657c55af5ebe2dbaeda3c9ab0d6fadde@antiochians.org> >My problem is that to participate in this meeting, I have to download and install Microsoft Media Player and Real Player. I'm trying to live my life without Microsoft software, which is why I bought an iMac. > >Any suggestions on alternative software that would work? Otherwise, I won't be there. > >John Hevelin '68 I intend to record everything with Audacity and then upload an .mp3. The more adept might know how to capture the video stream. (I never was much good with video.) Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 14 22:46:31 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (da-bronx (michael.heffernan@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 14 22:59:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Alumni Seek Answers Regarding Financial Condition of Antioch College Message-ID: <6473f041cad842624e60f2d4a1a6b9e1@antiochians.org> Online Information Session Provides an Opportunity Members of the Antioch College Alumni Association welcome the opportunity to pose questions to Art Zucker, Chair of the University Board of Trustees and Toni Murdock, Chancellor of the University in an online dialog scheduled for Thursday, August 16 at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time. Our alumni are strongly encouraged to visit the Antioch College website at www.antioch-college.edu to post questions in advance. The Alumni Association, representing over 17,000 Antioch College alumni, rejects the decision made in June by the University Board of Trustees to suspend operations and has been instructed to negotiate a path that will avoid closure. It is also acknowledged that the Alumni Association must take up the lead to raise the funds necessary to strengthen Antioch College to ensure that it is strong and ready to welcome generations of new students. ?Important questions need to be answered in this session. It is our hope that the University Board of Trustees will take this opportunity to disclose, in a fully transparent fashion, the financial circumstances which led them to justify such a drastic action.? -said Nancy Crow, ?70, President of the Antioch College Alumni Association. The Alumni Association will be prepared with a response for the media immediately following the online session. Antioch College Revival Fund Established in June 2007 by the Alumni Board of Antioch College in response to an attempt by the University Board of Trustees to suspend operations of the 150 year-old historic college, the College Revival Fund, Inc. is an Ohio non-profit corporation established solely for the benefit of Antioch College to ensure its continued operation. Alumni have raised $625,000 in cash and pledges to date for the College Revival Fund that is under the full control of the Antioch College Alumni Association. In addition, there are expressions of interest in contributing to a revived, self-governed Antioch College that are in excess of $2 million. Antioch College Founded in 1852, Antioch College is a private undergraduate liberal arts college located in Yellow Springs, Ohio. Antioch College is a leader in American higher education and has been recognized for many generations for academic rigor, innovation and social justice. The College was among the first to offer women and men an equal academic curriculum, offer faculty equal compensation regardless of gender, among the first to offer African-American students access to a college education, and among the first non-sectarian colleges in the United States. The College counts many noteworthy alumni in all fields. From matt at baya.net Wed Aug 15 00:29:43 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Wed Aug 15 00:46:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP HISTORIC 155-YEAR-OLD OHIO COLLEGE OPEN Message-ID: PRESS RELEASE Tuesday August 14. 2007 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP HISTORIC 155-=20 YEAR-OLD OHIO COLLEGE OPEN Today members of the Antioch College Faculty filed for a permanent =20 injunction against the Antioch University Board of Trustees in the =20 Greene County Common Pleas Court. On June 9, 2007, the University =20 Board decided to suspend Antioch College operations, terminating all =20 faculty and staff as of June 30, 2008. The legal request for =20 injunctive relief asks the court to enjoin Antioch University from =20 suspending College operations, from terminating the College Faculty, =20 and from disposing of any College assets. The lawsuit alleges that the Board failed to govern the institution =20 properly. First and foremost, the Board breached their contractual =20 responsibilities by declaring a state of financial exigency and =20 suspending College operations when less drastic measures were =20 available. The Faculty complaint also alleges that the University =20 Board of Trustees violated contractual obligations set forth in the =20 Faculty Personnel Policies and Procedures that require consultation =20 with College Faculty, and that require minimal external publicity =20 about internal College financial matters. The Faculty asserts that =20 decisions made by the Board of Trustees in 2004 and 2005 seriously =20 damaged College enrollment prospects, which led to a rapid decline in =20= revenue, and that the June12, 2007 public suspension announcement =20 further damaged the College. Last week the College Faculty received support from the American =20 Association of University Professors, the leading advocacy =20 organization for higher education faculty and the defense of academic =20= freedom. The AAUP issued a "statement of concern" to the University =20 Board of Trustees, the University Chancellor, and the College =20 President, citing problems with Antioch University governance =20 policies and "a pattern of disregard for faculty's legitimate role in =20= institutional decision-making." Today's injunction request asks that the University be prevented from =20= liquidating or dispersing any College assets, including College =20 buildings (three of which are historic landmarks), the College =20 Endowment, its land holdings, Antioch Education Abroad, the recently-=20 opened Coretta Scott King Center, and the Glen Helen Nature Preserve. =20= Legal action by members of the Antioch College Faculty is one effort =20 in a broad=C3based campaign by the College Alumni Board, twenty former =20= members of the University Board of Trustees, and the many citizens of =20= Yellow Springs who are working to keep the College open as a viable =20 liberal arts institution. Given the University's public refusal to =20 reconsider their decision to suspend operations, members of the =20 faculty found it necessary to initiate legal action to immediately =20 prevent further damage to the nationally renowned College and the =20 surrounding community. Antioch faculty, alums and current students are determined to save =20 their school. "Antioch College has offered a very distinctive, high-=20 quality liberal arts education for the past one-hundred and fifty =20 years, and we, the faculty, are committed to keeping it going," says =20 Anne Bohlen, Professor of Media Arts. "The College buildings and =20 grounds, including Glen Helen, are justly famous Ohio landmarks and =20 the College is a major employer in Yellow Springs--there are numerous =20= jobs at stake here. " -= From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 01:09:28 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 01:22:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9cd1e8437c088811b52550a31b813262@antiochians.org> Antioch College faculty. Courageous, committed and resolute. Three cheers! From theodora at imbris.com Wed Aug 15 02:17:38 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Wed Aug 15 02:27:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] learning styles and curriculum planning In-Reply-To: <20070811013702.D1E9060F731B@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: > The role of an effective Board of Trustees is to give money > and help raise funds. In my ideal liberal arts college the faculty shapes > the curriculum and shares with students in the selection of the president. > The president makes an enormous difference (for good or ill) in respect to > mission, fund raising, p.r., management, conflict resolution, personnel > selection, alumni relations, quality of campus life etc., etc. I argue that > an institution thrives when she/he leads, consults, collaborates,and > inspires all her constituents--especially staff, students, faculty, and > community. Yes, you are right. A distant, bottom line preoccupied BOT that > is ignorant of the developmental tasks of late adolescence consulted > "experts" and then disempowered the president and the community by creating > a top down solution (the renewal plan) to complex problems. Such > mismanagement exacerbates the very toxic campus it deplores. > > Art Dole '46 > I've been away for a few days, so just catching up, but I've been doing a lot of thinking, and I think I finally get it. sorry I'm so slow, folks, but I've been out of the loop for a long time. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course! I was a little doubtful about this so-called "hostile takeover" in the beginning. But it becomes rather clear to me: if those folks with "deep pockets" (mentioned some time last week) wanted to save Antioch now, they could. But they would rather purge the current faculty and community, who knows why? Because they're too radical? Or not rigorous enough? I dunno. Does anybody know? What that means to me is that once they take over, they want to control the faculty. Am I gleaning that the BoT wants a for-profit venture without tenured faculty? Is that possible? It's one thing to keep a college in the black, and to remain aware of trends in education, etc. It's quite another to turn education into a for-profit business. So please, tell me I'm wrong, that this isn't what they're about. to Luci, if she's still out there, I know my ramblings about my own experiences at Antioch seemed irrelevant to the present problems, but they seemed in such contrast in some ways to yours (unexpectedly! I wasn't trying to argue), and where it got me was that it's awfully important for current faculty in response to students to develop curriculum in dialogue with the times, especially at a place like Antioch. If I had been at Antioch in the 40s, I probably would have been more able to settle in and study. After the war, everyone happy to be at peace, rebuilding the country, so glad to be able to just go to college and do ordinary everyday things, like study (I probably idealize those times, so again....sorry). In the 60s, there was just so much going on that was so challenging to my and other's values, and it was exciting, stimulating, and often confusing. Such times called for a different approach to education, I suspect. But the curriculum was still much like it was in the 40s, apparently. And it wasn't working in some ways for a lot of us. EVen a friend of mine, who WAS able to study and was getting all As made a suicide attempt. Both of us had always been successful at everything we'd done, and suddenly there were things that got the better of us. Our heads and hearts were spinning. And adjustments like the First Year Program appear to have helped students who came after me (without hurting them academically when all was said and done). Where all this gets me is this: I don't think any of us, from the 40s or the 60s or even the 90s can dictate or design what should be taught at Antioch today, unless we're there, teaching the students for a while and being a part of the community (and making decisions together). The faculty and Bob (whom I don't know from Adam, if that matters, even though I think we were on campus at the same time) seem to have had things on the upswing. They could probably have done an even better job with more money, the ability to expand the faculty and programs, improve the facilities and equipment, etc. And I suspect they still can. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 02:24:19 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (beth.00 (bgutelius@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 02:37:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: <9cd1e8437c088811b52550a31b813262@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <97b7232fd02e2d75ed46442909af1a8d@antiochians.org> >Antioch College faculty. Courageous, committed and resolute. Three cheers! yep, it's on. donate to the faculty legal defense fund! From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 15 11:34:52 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 15 11:48:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: please forward Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:34:44 AM Message From: Linda Sattem Subject: please forward To: Steven Duffy Hi Duffy, Would you please forward the following to the Alumni chat? Thanks! Although I am not a member of the Alumni chat, apparently there has been some discussion on "toxic" culture and students, admissions and the Special Review Committee, and college students and mental illness. Several college staff have forwarded me some of these postings. I thought the following might be helpful and clear up some confusion. Special Review Committee During the four years I have served on this committee there has never been a place on the application for any reference to current or prior mental health treatment (nor medical treatment). Disruptive Behavior All cases of disruptive behavior was handled through the Dean of Student's office or Community Standards Board. The Counseling and Wellness Center does not accept mandated referrals, we do assist in finding outside treatment options. Special Accommodations All persons requesting accommodations for a mental or physical health issue, or learning ability were worked with on an individual basis through the appropriate channels (counseling, housing, academic support) and there is an ADA form that is completed by the treatment or referral professional. Steve's "Presentation" I was not present during either of these presentations. I was told of them afterwards by multiple faculty and staff. Below is the text of a campus-wide announcement I sent (November 2, 2006) following hearing of the presentations, and the original campus-wide announcement I sent that it references (March 8, 2004). November 2, 2006 On March 8, 2004 I sent out a campus-wide announcements concerning rumors that indicated thinking along the lines of "If Antioch did not admit such messed up students, the college would not be having such problems". In that email I noted that having worked in private practice for 13 years (and in different agencies for the 15+ years before) with many students from multiple colleges in the area, my experience here was not different, with the exception of more trans issues. Additionally, I offered research from 2003 about the issues college students present at their counseling centers. I ended with "There is nothing wrong with you. You are not the reason the college is having difficulties." Seems this line of thought has again reared up, is being talked about, and getting serious discussion. Antioch students are not different than other college students. Our students do not have more problems, more severe problems or a higher incidence of mental illness. Are we busy at the Counseling Center? Yes. So is every center I have visited, this same experience is what I hear from every director at our regional conferences, and what is reported in the literature. Attached is the American College Health Association's 2005 survey results (it was their 2003 results I included in the 2004 email announcement) if you'd like to see what issues are being dealt with. The summary of an article concerning the patterns over 13 years in one counseling center (Kansas State University) is also attached. Finally there are two new resources from the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI). The first is research with students and parents, the second with college counseling centers. Learn about what is happening to all colleges, all college students. We have to be careful with what we say, what we try to pin all our problems on. We are complex, the problems we face are complex. We cannot "target" one group or another. All of us want the college to survive, and then to thrive. Again, there is nothing wrong with you. You are not the reason the college is having difficulties. March 8, 2004 Hi all, For several weeks I have been hearing about alleged comments from "board members" that if Antioch College would "better select" students (that is, students who do not have so many problems) the college would not be in such "bad" shape. This is hard for me to hear. I have seen many college students in a private practice (for over 13 years) from colleges in several counties. Other than working more with the trans issues here, nothing else has been different. I'm serious about this. College is a stressful time. Research last year by the American College Health Association (National College Health Assessment Survey, October 2003) found that for every 100 students there were: -32 students under excessive stress -24 students having sleep disturbance -19 students are depressed -18 students are worried about a friend or family member who is experiencing difficulties -13 students are in an abusive relationship - 8 students are using alcohol excessively College is a time of transition, a time of stress, a time of trying out new freedoms and responsibilities. There is nothing wrong with you. You are not the reason the college is having difficulties. Appreciation All of us appreciate all the efforts to both save the college now and in four years. Everyone needs to understand that we are also trying to prepare for all the incoming students, all of whom are upset with this news and many of whom will be working really hard to graduate in April. Additionally, we are even more short staffed than in the past. Our focus has to be on the students. Linda Lee Sattem, Ph.D., PCC/S Director, Counseling and Wellness Center Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs OH 45387-1697 (937) 769-1129 direct (937) 769-1130 Center (937) 769-1125 fax E-mail is not a secure form of communication, and precautions need to be taken to protect all confidential information. From timothynoble at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 11:59:07 2007 From: timothynoble at gmail.com (Tim Noble) Date: Wed Aug 15 12:12:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] PRESS RELEASE: please visit theantiochpapers.org in advance of tomorrow's webcast Message-ID: please visit theantiochpapers.org and download all files under the archives heading. links to contextual information about and excerpts from specific documents are located on the main page. please forward the following widely: ======= PRESS RELEASE Wednesday August 15. 2007 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE THE ANTIOCH PAPERS - OPEN SOURCE ARCHIVE - NOW ONLINE http://theantiochpapers.org/ Today a national network of journalists, archivists, and information scavengers opened an on-line public archive of primary source documents concerning Antioch College/University. University-produced documents on-line at The Antioch Papers reveal: 1. that if by June 30, 2008, a "land development company has not been engaged, the College would move toward permanent closure." - From "Data for Financial Planning Discussion." 2007. 2. the Board meeting in which financial exigency was declared for the College contains plans for $25,383,000 in new construction at Antioch Seattle in 2012. - From "Data for Financial Planning Discussion." 2007. The Antioch Papers is an open archive for primary source materials that document the institutional life of Antioch College and, by extension, Antioch University. Source materials have been gathered through publicly accessible archives and through submissions by institutional whistle-blowers concerned about violations of transparency, community governance, and educational standards in the dismantling of the College. In the spirt of community governance, the staff of the Antioch Papers have released 2 collectively developed quotes for the press at this time. AP Collective Quote 1 "Antioch is about life long learning, in a way the school never leaves you. We feel the University's lack of transparency concerning the closing of the College has robbed us of important teachable moment. Thank goodness for the folks who have been sending us documents." "AP Collective Quote 2" "Our education at Antioch taught us to integrate, elevate, and challenge our personal concerns and insights among the larger social fabric of civic life. We feel there needs to an institutional review of the college based on internally and externally generated documents as a counter point to the personal-experience based critiques that have dominated so many opinion editorials." Because of the collective nature of the Antioch College Papers, there is no individual spokesperson for the group. The group as a whole is willing to answer any questions at the email address below. The AP feels this collective strategy is essential at this moment due to the imbalance between personal experience and documented institutional understanding in the popular press's coverage of the closing of Antioch College - this position may be modified as conditions change. Inquiries and submissions may be made in writing to: theantiochpapers [at] gmail [dot] com Communications will be treated as confidential. Webmaster: Timothy Noble - 443-653-2262 END From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 13:11:32 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 13:25:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] PRESS RELEASE: please visit theantiochpapers.org in ad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Send in the clowns... The BOT, a broken body, needs to be retreived. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 13:23:28 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 13:36:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] PRESS RELEASE: please visit theantiochpapers.org in ad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To the AP Collective, thank you for a clear concise site that gives us what we need fast. Cheers. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 13:26:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 13:40:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] PRESS RELEASE: please visit theantiochpapers.org in ad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the news and link to http://theantiochpapers.org/, Tim et al. And that'd be "The BOT.... retrieved" for listserv subscribers. Ouch! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 13:26:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 13:40:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: <97b7232fd02e2d75ed46442909af1a8d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <25b9ff8578aab1f6d3db6fad6b10bf91@antiochians.org> I for one am very glad to see this take shape and will now give my donation to the legal fund. Given that there is an irreperable harm argument, I am glad to see that the faculty are making plans for what to do should they suddenly own the college (for better or for worse ;)) If there are members of the faculty reading this, or emeritus faculty, I want you to know how much I respect your courage. Not just now, but through decades of senseless academic wandering. Maybe now we will reach the promised land. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 13:28:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 13:42:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Steve Gould and Antioch sciences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <998cef5aa94ab563d61c64d7a3a6047e@antiochians.org> >As a transfer student, I had studied science at several other colleges before attending Antioch, one of which counted scientists >from the Brookhaven National Laboratory amongst its adjunct faculty. Not only did I find the science program at Antioch equally >as rigorous, and in some cases more so, but also better taught and much more accessible thanks to Jill, Stan, Kab, and many other dedicated science faculty. > >Shame on anyone for suggesting otherwise. Ah yes where is Sally now? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 13:49:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Matthew Baya (matt@baya.net)) Date: Wed Aug 15 14:03:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: <97b7232fd02e2d75ed46442909af1a8d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <795d184a1ae3b376150cd83e500d375b@antiochians.org> Full Electronic copy of the lawsuit was posted today on http://AntiochFaculty.Org/ PDF Version: http://antiochfaculty.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/columbus__525853_v1_antioch_complaint-final-for-court.pdf I also posted the full text over in the governance/legal forum here: http://antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20258 -Matt From sjr5 at nyu.edu Wed Aug 15 14:08:12 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Wed Aug 15 14:21:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Mental health attachments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve, would you let Linda know that the alumni list does not accept attachments, so for those of us who would like to see the articles she referred to, could you post her e-mail address so we can ask her to send them directly to us? Thanks! Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Duffy Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:34 am Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: please forward To: ALUMNI-CHAT@w3.antioch.edu, ACALUMBAORD@w3.antioch.edu > ----- Original Message ----- > > Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:34:44 AM > Message > From: Linda Sattem > Subject: please forward > To: Steven Duffy > > Hi Duffy, > > Would you please forward the following to the Alumni chat? Thanks! > > Although I am not a member of the Alumni chat, apparently there has been > some discussion on "toxic" culture and students, admissions and the > Special Review Committee, and college students and mental illness. > Several college staff have forwarded me some of these postings. I thought > the following might be helpful and clear up some confusion. > > Special Review Committee > During the four years I have served on this committee there has never > been > a place on the application for any reference to current or prior mental > health treatment (nor medical treatment). > > Disruptive Behavior > All cases of disruptive behavior was handled through the Dean of Student's > office or Community Standards Board. The Counseling and Wellness Center > does not accept mandated referrals, we do assist in finding outside > treatment options. > > Special Accommodations > All persons requesting accommodations for a mental or physical health > issue, or learning ability were worked with on an individual basis through > the appropriate channels (counseling, housing, academic support) and > there > is an ADA form that is completed by the treatment or referral professional. > > Steve's "Presentation" > I was not present during either of these presentations. I was told of > them afterwards by multiple faculty and staff. Below is the text of > a > campus-wide announcement I sent (November 2, 2006) following hearing > of > the presentations, and the original campus-wide announcement I sent that > it references (March 8, 2004). > > November 2, 2006 > On March 8, 2004 I sent out a campus-wide announcements concerning rumors > that indicated thinking along the lines of "If Antioch did not admit > such > messed up students, the college would not be having such problems". > > In that email I noted that having worked in private practice for 13 > years > (and in different agencies for the 15+ years before) with many students > from multiple colleges in the area, my experience here was not different, > with the exception of more trans issues. Additionally, I offered research > from 2003 about the issues college students present at their counseling > centers. I ended with "There is nothing wrong with you. You are not > the > reason the college is having difficulties." > Seems this line of thought has again reared up, is being talked about, > and getting serious discussion. Antioch students are not different than > other college students. Our students do not have more problems, more > severe problems or a higher incidence of mental illness. > Are we busy at the Counseling Center? Yes. So is every center I have > visited, this same experience is what I hear from every director at our > regional conferences, and what is reported in the literature. > Attached is the American College Health Association's 2005 survey results > (it was their 2003 results I included in the 2004 email announcement) > if > you'd like to see what issues are being dealt with. The summary of an > article concerning the patterns over 13 years in one counseling center > (Kansas State University) is also attached. Finally there are two new > resources from the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI). The > first is research with students and parents, the second with college > counseling centers. Learn about what is happening to all colleges, all > college students. > We have to be careful with what we say, what we try to pin all our > problems on. We are complex, the problems we face are complex. We cannot > "target" one group or another. All of us want the college to > survive, and > then to thrive. > Again, there is nothing wrong with you. You are not the reason the > college is having difficulties. > > March 8, 2004 > Hi all, > > For several weeks I have been hearing about alleged comments from "board > members" that if Antioch College would "better select" students (that > is, > students who do not have so many problems) the college would not be in > such "bad" shape. > > This is hard for me to hear. I have seen many college students in a > private practice (for over 13 years) from colleges in several > counties. > Other than working more with the trans issues here, nothing else has > been > different. > I'm serious about this. College is a stressful time. Research last > year > by the American College Health Association (National College Health > Assessment Survey, October 2003) found that for every 100 students there > were: > -32 students under excessive stress > -24 students having sleep disturbance > -19 students are depressed > -18 students are worried about a friend or family member > who is experiencing difficulties > -13 students are in an abusive relationship > - 8 students are using alcohol excessively > College is a time of transition, a time of stress, a time of trying out > new freedoms and responsibilities. There is nothing wrong with you. > You > are not the reason the college is having difficulties. > > Appreciation > All of us appreciate all the efforts to both save the college now and > in > four years. Everyone needs to understand that we are also trying to > prepare for all the incoming students, all of whom are upset with this > news and many of whom will be working really hard to graduate in > April. > Additionally, we are even more short staffed than in the past. Our > focus > has to be on the students. > > > Linda Lee Sattem, Ph.D., PCC/S > Director, Counseling and Wellness Center > Antioch College > 795 Livermore St. > Yellow Springs OH 45387-1697 > (937) 769-1129 direct > (937) 769-1130 Center > (937) 769-1125 fax > > > E-mail is not a secure form of communication, and precautions need to > be > taken to protect all confidential information. > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alexandrakesman at gmail.com Wed Aug 15 14:09:05 2007 From: alexandrakesman at gmail.com (Alexandra Kesman) Date: Wed Aug 15 14:22:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] List of Antioch Links Message-ID: Hello everyone, I recently started a blog about the efforts to save Antioch. More importantly, I included a list of all the places online that I have found conversations and networks of Alumni and students discussing this dilemma. Please go to my blog to find this list of links and some other interesting letters. I'm updating daily with things I come across. I would also like some feedback about the links. Do you know of any other links online? Please let me know! I want to make it as complete as possible. http://alexandrakesman.blogspot.com Thanks! -- Alexandra Kesman 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs, OH 45387 513.850.5141 www.alexandrakesman.com From aadole at adelphia.net Wed Aug 15 17:53:35 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Wed Aug 15 15:06:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: <795d184a1ae3b376150cd83e500d375b@antiochians.org> Message-ID: On 8/15/07 10:49 AM, "Matthew Baya (matt@baya.net)" wrote: > Full Electronic copy of the lawsuit was posted today on > http://AntiochFaculty.Org/ > > PDF Version: > http://antiochfaculty.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/columbus__525853_v1_antio > ch_complaint-final-for-court.pdf > > I also posted the full text over in the governance/legal forum here: > > http://antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20258 > > -Matt > > > > Thanks, Matt. This is a real service. Are you going to Cincinnati? Art Dole From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 17:09:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 17:23:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] List of Antioch Links In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <092d44e168d4b53a34de2f351574c21d@antiochians.org> >http://alexandrakesman.blogspot.com > >Thanks! Nice work, Alexandra! You have a number I haven't seen before, but I'm not into FaceBook. Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 17:48:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 18:02:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [antioch-nyc] Chancellors Commencement Address to PHD Grads In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sonia, I wrote to the Chancellor (could someone please do a picture of Toni with one of those pointy Prussian military hats) personally and of course have received no response. In addition to questions about the flatly anti-intellectual bent of her speech, I asked her if she could please stop the officers of her corporation from defaming the College in print. No response to that either. From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Aug 15 19:09:22 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 15 19:23:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Steve Gould and Antioch sciences Message-ID: In a message dated 8/14/2007 12:26:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: I have to jump in to dispel several myths about the Hughes Grant to the >Science Area. > >I was the Director of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute grant for >several years after another faculty member left. > >The grant was written by Antioch College science faculty. >Steve Gould had NOTHING to do with the grant. >We received the sum of $600,000, NOT 2 million. >The money was used for many educational goals, including: purchase of >science lab equipment, funding an outreach program to Springfield >elementary school classes, buying a van for that project and hiring >students as coordinators of the project, funding science co-op >opportunities, faculty research. > >My request is that the alums reading this understand that we have had a >very viable science program. This next school year will be challenging, >however, due to actions taken to not fill vacancies with full time staff. Yes! Project Bios, I remember it well and fondly. I was one of the co-oping science majors that participated in this program and found it to be extremely rewarding as well as important. Well something here does not add up at all -- It just makes little sense that Stephen J. Gould would be all concerned and pissed out about something he made clear he had a hand in, if in fact he was not involved. Also, the Hughes Grant was announced in "The Antiochian" and in materials made available to the Alumni Board at meetings as 2 million. We all know that sometimes Antioch PR was a mite unrealistic, but most places don't advertise large grants unless they have a pretty firm agreement. But all of this is about why an outside forensic audit is important. A forensic audit is different from a conventional one in that it focuses a little less on whether columns add up properly, and more on trying to pull out the assumptions behind financial decisions. I don't think Antioch crashed because we could not add -- I think this bankruptcy happened because of a profound failure in critical decision making -- this being just one examples. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From totally at svaha.com Wed Aug 15 22:04:43 2007 From: totally at svaha.com (J. Greg Williams) Date: Wed Aug 15 22:31:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Steve Gould and Antioch sciences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe the announcement by the faculty today will ensure that a forensic audit will be performed. -Greg From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Aug 15 22:25:41 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 15 22:39:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Steve Gould and Antioch sciences Message-ID: In a message dated 8/15/2007 12:28:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: Ah yes where is Sally now? Just doing E-Mail from two days or so now. Sorry, finally buying a brand new car that starts when I turn the key in a highly reliable way -- has led to something called deferred errands. Yesterday it was an appointment in the burbs for the application of rust-proofing and undercoating -- something anyone in Minnesota would be a fool not to buy. Then there is my search for something I love -- Lemon Pepper Pasta. Seems that the local distributor of that went out of business a year ago, and I am trying to secure another supplier. The guy who has done my yard for years got caught with some pot, and just did 60 days in the workhouse, so I took him on a few errands, some for him, some to set up the work I have lined up for him now that he is out. I need a new bedroom rug -- and wheels finally allow me to go looking for what I think I want. In addition I am a political blogger, and I am working up an essay doing a contrast comparison between Louis Howe and Karl Rove and "real" as opposed to "fake" political paradigm shifts. Stack of books on the floor by the couch from my FDR collection, nice yellow legal pad for notes -- I am almost sufficently worked up to compose it. But also busy reading what fellow politically progressive blogmates have to say. Not everything going on in the world is about Antioch Arguments you know. But yea, I am gradually weeding my E-Mail accumulated over a couple of days that have been blessed with operational wheels. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 15 22:40:27 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 15 22:53:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Steve Gould and Antioch sciences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you can find Spinosi pasta, it's divine! From jmeltzer at vh.net Wed Aug 15 22:36:41 2007 From: jmeltzer at vh.net (Janice Meltzer) Date: Wed Aug 15 22:54:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Alumni-chat Digest, Vol 6, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: <20070815180333.9F67E610C251@w3.antioch.edu> References: <20070815180333.9F67E610C251@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <46C3B839.5030206@vh.net> If I may add my $.02 worth: In the 60's the powers that were embraced the "university" concept, establishing satellite campuses (Putney, Vt. was the first, I believe). This grand plan would, of course, siphon resources, both financial and talent from Antioch college. (This drain was made clear when I went back for my one and only reunion in '89 - the buildings, the bookstore and the radio station were the most obvious sufferers.) It seems to me that if the College is to be saved, it must be severed from the University so that its inventory, finances, and talent can be used to rebuild the reputation that the College once had. Jan Brown Meltzer '69 From warren at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 16 00:11:19 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Thu Aug 16 00:24:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP=?ISO-8859-1?Q? H?= In-Reply-To: <25b9ff8578aab1f6d3db6fad6b10bf91@antiochians.org> References: <25b9ff8578aab1f6d3db6fad6b10bf91@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Dear Travis, Thank you very much. We are determined, and we are seriously working on it (i.e., reaching the promised land! -- we were actually a lot closer that most folks were led to believe). We are confident about victory. best, Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 at 1:26 PM wrote: >I for one am very glad to see this take shape and will now give my >donation to the legal fund. >Given that there is an irreperable harm argument, I am glad to see that >the faculty are making plans for what to do should they suddenly own the >college (for better or for worse ;)) > >If there are members of the faculty reading this, or emeritus faculty, I >want you to know how much I respect your courage. Not just now, but >through decades of senseless academic wandering. Maybe now we will reach >the promised land. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 00:20:09 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 00:33:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: <9cd1e8437c088811b52550a31b813262@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Antioch College faculty. Courageous, committed and resolute. Three cheers! Agreed. okay Team... you all inspired me when you were the coaches, now.... Please go kindly, gently, kick some fucking ass. ----G From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 16 10:28:21 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 16 10:41:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: attachments Message-ID: For Sonia Jaffee Robbins and other folks addicted to all things Antioch...... ----- Original Message ----- Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:09:04 PM Message From: Linda Sattem Subject: attachments To: Steven Duffy Attachments: 4 attachments 41K Duffy, Thanks for passing this on. 1) Antioch College College Student Mental Health Counseling and Wellness Center Amer. College Health Assoc. The American College Health Association conducts annual surveys of the nation?s college students. In 2005 they surveyed 54,111 students in the spring, and 16,832 students in the fall. The following are selected findings from these 2005 surveys. 2005 Survey Impediment to academic performance (last school year) Spring Fall Issue 31.6% 30.9% stress 26.5% 23.6% colds/flu/sore throats 24.8% 23.7% sleep difficulties 18.1% 17.8% concern about family/friend 15.8% 14.7% relationship difficulties 16.3% 15.6% depression and anxiety 14.2% 12.0% Internet use/games 8.4% 9.2% death of family member/friend 7.6% 6.5% alcohol use Depression Diagnosis and Treatment spring (fall) % of Females % of Males Ever diagnosed (Dx) 19.2 (20.5) 10.8 (10.7) Of those above: Dx in the past year 36.9 (42.2) 31.0 (36.6) Current therapy 28.9 (26.7) 23.3 (20.3) Current medication 39.3 (40.2) 30.8 (30.3) Sexual abuse/assault (last school year) spring (fall) % of females % of males Sexual touching 11.7 (10.0) 4.7 (3.7) Verbal threats 4.4 (3.7) 2.4 (2.4) Attempted penetration 4.1 (3.4) 1.1 (1.1) Sexual penetration 2.0 (1.8) .8 (0.8) Depression and Suicide Experiencing the following in the past school year: Spring % Fall % Feeling overwhelmed by all they had to do 1-10 times 65.2 64.3 11+ times 28.6 28.2 Feeling exhausted (not from physical activity) 1-10 times 63.8 64.1 11+ times 28.4 25.2 Feeling very sad 1-10 times 66.0 63.5 11+ times 14.7 14.0 Feeling things were hopeless 1-10 times 53.0 50.1 11+ times 10.8 10.3 Feeling so depressed it was difficult to function 1-10 times 38.0 35.0 11+ times 7.7 7.3 Seriously considering attempting suicide 1-10 times 9.2 9.6 11+ times 1.0 1.1 Attempting suicide 1-10 times 1.4 1.8 11+ times 0.1 0.2 www.acha.org 2) Antioch College College Counseling Center Counseling and Wellness Center Changing Trends Benton, S.; Robertson, J.; Tseng, W.; Newton, F. & Benton, S. (2003) Changes in counseling center client problems across 13 years Professional Psychology: Research and Practice 34(1) 66-72 Research: 13 years of student clients (n=13,257) 1988/1999 to 2000/2001 Instrument: Case Descriptor List, completed at termination (list of 19 problem areas, multiple problems can be checked) No significant changes in this time with age, race/ethnic, number of sessions or gender (although they found a slight increase with males in the last 4 years studied). Findings: -Significant changes (increases) in most problem areas. -Steady increase over the period with: academic skills, depression, development, grief, medication use and situational. -Increase in the last half with: family issues, personality disorders, physical problems, relationships, sexual assault, stress/anxiety and suicidal thoughts. -Slight increase (still statistically significant) in abuse and educational/vocational. -No significant change was found in chronic mental disorders (ranged from 2.5 to 3.5 %), eating disorders, legal and substance abuse. Implications: ?Overall, our results indicated that students who were seen in counseling services in more recent time periods frequently have more complex problems that include both the normal college student problems, such as difficulties in relationships and developmental issues, as well as the more severe problems, such as anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, sexual assault, and personality disorders. Some of these increases were dramatic: The number of students seen each year with depression doubled over the time period, while the number of suicidal students tripled and the number of students seen after a sexual assault quadrupled.? (p. 70) ?First, these findings provide empirical support for the idea that counseling centers may, in fact, be seeing clients with more complex and severe problems in some problem areas than they did a decade ago. If these observed patterns of change prove to be consistent with those at other counseling center, then it is evident that therapist in counseling centers are seeing students with more critical needs than a decade ago .Students with more complex and severe problems often require more resources to support them.? (p. 71-72) 3) Antioch College College Student Mental Health Counseling and Wellness Center NAMI Research, 2004 Research by the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI) on college mental health (n=1.033 college students, 1,028 parents of college students, 282 patients diagnosed with mental illness; 2004) Prevalence among students: 1/3 experienced prolonged periods of depression 1/4 report suicidal thoughts or feelings 1/7 engage in abnormally reckless behavior 1/7 report difficulty functioning at school due to mental illness Parent vs. student perception: Issue Parents Student?s actual Rate the student?s mental health as below average or poor. 25% 50% The student has experienced a friend who had/has problems functioning at school due to mental health. 7% 30% Discussed mental health issues with parent to prepare for college experience. 75% 22% (Myth) Belief that bipolar disorder is attributed to a character flaw or weak willpower. 35% 48% Preparation: 50% of students report receiving no information from anyone (parents, teachers, clergy, counselors) before coming to college about mental health issues. While in college: 50% of students report receiving no information on mental health from their college. Who to turn to? Students report being most likely to turn to a friend (62%) during a serious mental health crisis. 46% would turn to a parent, 30% would come to a college counseling center. www.nami.org www.namioncampus.org 4) Antioch College College Mental Health Centers Counseling and Wellness Center NAMI Research 2006 (Reprinted from the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill newsletter, September 2006) A Snapshot of College Mental Health Centers For many people, college is one of the best times of life. The college years provide a critical transition from childhood to adulthood, as well as a unique time to pursue academic interests and bond with friends. However, the college years (typically 18 to 24 years of age) also coincide with the age of onset for serious mental illnesses and can be a crucial time to diagnose and treat young people in the early stages of a mental illness. And, because of improvements in early detection, more students now than ever are entering college already having a diagnosis of a serious mental illness and a treatment plan. Together, this means that mental illness is a growing reality on college campuses today. To gauge the readiness of college campuses in supporting students with mental health needs, NAMI National surveyed the directors of selected campus mental health centers. The sample included 150 colleges and universities known for academic excellence and represented public and private, large and small institutions in every region of the country. The results provide a snapshot of mental health practices and policies at colleges across the country, including: A spreading awareness of mental health on campus * Eighty-eight percent of campus mental health centers provide training for on-campus employees in various departments, including residential staff, academic advisers, and campus security. The vast majority of mental health centers have the capacity to treat students with serious mental illness * Approximately three-quarters of mental health centers either employ a psychiatrist or have a partnership with a community-based psychiatrist for referrals. University policies are flexible for students with serious mental illness * Eighty-eight percent of schools offer students in need of intensive psychiatric care a leave of absence without academic penalty. For students who have attempted suicide, the majority of schools evaluate the student?s standing on a case-by-case basis. * For students returning after a leave of absence, schools connect students to a variety of supports, both on and off-campus. www.nami.org www.namioncampus.org Linda Lee Sattem, Ph.D., PCC/S Director, Counseling and Wellness Center Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs OH 45387-1697 (937) 769-1129 direct (937) 769-1130 Center (937) 769-1125 fax E-mail is not a secure form of communication, and precautions need to be taken to protect all confidential information. From sjr5 at nyu.edu Thu Aug 16 11:35:24 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Thu Aug 16 11:49:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [antioch-nyc] Chancellors Commencement Address to PHD Grads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And Robin Rice Lichtig, another alum, asked a friend who teaches at Ohio State whether it had lost its accreditation, as Murdock said it had. The friend said no. So, caught in another lie, yet another aspect of biz-speak. Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:49 pm Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [antioch-nyc] Chancellors Commencement Address to PHD Grads To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > Sonia, > > I wrote to the Chancellor (could someone please do a picture of Toni > with one of those pointy Prussian military hats) personally and of > course have received no response. In addition to questions about the > flatly anti-intellectual bent of her speech, I asked her if she could > please stop the officers of her corporation from defaming the College > in print. No response to that either. > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 11:42:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (PJ (planetjunque@sbcglobal.net)) Date: Thu Aug 16 11:56:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6ccce785c781e523108f3edf71d0c621@antiochians.org> The Chronicle of Higher Ed Blog reported this 8/15 and none of the comments are supportive of the faculty - someone might want to add some decent ones there: http://chronicle.com/news/article/2860/ he-college August 15, 2007 - Antioch Professors Sue to Block Board From Closing the College From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 11:55:09 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Michael Casselli (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 12:08:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Message-ID: Any idea as to why the site for the webinar now says that "This presentation is no longer available. You are being redirected to the company's homepage: http://www.antioch.edu/" All you get from Antioch college website is to come back at 8:00 tonight? Any thoughts? Casselli '87 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 12:10:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 12:23:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3aa240a8ce58e76afaf43fbc5f03a786@antiochians.org> >Any idea as to why the site for the webinar now says that "This presentation is no longer available. >You are being redirected to the company's homepage: http://www.antioch.edu/" >All you get from Antioch college website is to come back at 8:00 tonight? >Any thoughts? >Casselli '87 This is the answer I've gotten: Hi all.... I have had 50 gazillion phone calls/emails this morning re: the fact that the webinar site is down. I was told that it is a technical problem and that they are working fast and furiously on it. Keep checking back. Would you please pass the word on? Lynda Sirk's email is lsirk@antioch-college.edu and her phone number is 937-769-1222. MaryLou LaPierre's phone number is 937-769-1205. They are the folks in the know and can help you out. Risa From josh at vitriolix.com Thu Aug 16 14:35:58 2007 From: josh at vitriolix.com (Josh Steiner) Date: Thu Aug 16 14:49:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ANTIOCH COLLEGE FACULTY MEMBERS FILE LAWSUIT TO KEEP H In-Reply-To: <6ccce785c781e523108f3edf71d0c621@antiochians.org> References: <6ccce785c781e523108f3edf71d0c621@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <46C4990E.8000602@vitriolix.com> fixed link: http://chronicle.com/news/article/2860/antioch-professors-sue-to-block-board-from-closing-the-college -josh PJ (planetjunque@sbcglobal.net) wrote: > The Chronicle of Higher Ed Blog reported this 8/15 and none of the comments are supportive of the faculty - someone might want to add some decent ones there: > > http://chronicle.com/news/article/2860/ ? he-college > > August 15, 2007 - Antioch Professors Sue to Block Board From Closing the College > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > -- ________________________________________________________________ tasty electronic music vittles -- bluevitriol.com the only music blog you need -- playtherecords.com you are the dj. interactive music -- improbableorchestra.com random observations of the bizarre -- vitriolix.com From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 14:36:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 14:50:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar In-Reply-To: <3aa240a8ce58e76afaf43fbc5f03a786@antiochians.org> Message-ID: OK I just got a message from Linda Syrk...no registration necessary now. Tonight at 8 pm EST, go to www.antioch-college.edu, go to the Aug. 16 link, and there you can click on a hyperlink that will allow you to watch the presentation without any special add-ins. So, there ya go. See you all virtually there... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 14:51:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Michael Casselli (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 15:04:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7880dcabbce08ae08c93b868743795ed@antiochians.org> >Christian, > >Maybe I'm dense or something but I don't see anything on the website that >will allow me to click on it for the webinar. > >I want to watch this from home. > >Sandy > >Alumni Chat List on Thursday, August 16, 2007 >at 2:36 PM -0500 wrote: >>www.antioch-college.edu Sandy, It won't be available until 7:50 tonight. Here is what Lynda sent me: We have simplified the process for accessing the webcast this evening. We no longer require registration or the download of an application. Those who want to be participate in this presentation should go to: http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/askaquestion.html at 7:50 PM this evening and simply click on the hyperlink provided there. That will give them access to the presentation. Casselli '87 From sjr5 at nyu.edu Thu Aug 16 15:14:21 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Thu Aug 16 15:28:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Insidehighered.com latest on the Antioch Papers Web site In-Reply-To: <46C4990E.8000602@vitriolix.com> References: <6ccce785c781e523108f3edf71d0c621@antiochians.org> <46C4990E.8000602@vitriolix.com> Message-ID: Notice how LaPierre tries to dismiss critics by claiming that we said all this without the documents. Like having the documents as proof is less meaningful if we had speculated about it beforehand? http://insidehighered.com/news/2007/08/16/antioch Leaks From Antioch Critics of the decision to suspend the operations of Antioch College unveiled a new tool Wednesday: a Web site of documents, many of them leaked, about Antioch University management. The Antioch Papers Web site contains documents sent to some alumni who have been critical of the university administration. The documents include materials prepared for the university board, materials prepared by the university chancellor, and reports about governance and the possible future of the college. Organizers of the site say that the documents counter the university administration?s contention that the college has been in a free-fall for years. In fact, the organizers say, the documents suggest that as recently as seven or eight years ago the college was building momentum, that the central administration is trying to build up the campuses away from Yellow Springs at the expense of the historic residential program that is now being suspended, and that the central administration wants to minimize the faculty role in governance. As with many leaked documents, there can be a danger in drawing too firm a conclusion from some of the statements. A subsequent document, unleaked, could disavow the views expressed in one that was leaked, or provide more context. But there are certainly statements that the trustees and administration probably would prefer not to have been made public ? and that may add to the distrust of many students, alumni and professors for the central administration. There is the suggestion, for example, that if faculty members are rehired for a revived Antioch College, that would take place without tenure. And there is a section in a governance document that seeks to justify minimizing faculty contact with trustees. (While plenty of faculty members nationally have little contact with trustees, Antioch has long prided itself on participatory governance in which professors play a central role.) Mary Lou LaPierre, vice chancellor and chief spokeswoman for the university administration, said that she could not comment on the documents because of a lawsuit filed this week by professors seeking to block the university from suspending the college?s operations. The documents could be evidence in the suit, LaPierre said. Asked generally about the views of those who produced the Web site, LaPierre said that those views ?have been their contentions for some time,? even without the documents. She said that those views were incorrect, but that she could not go into detail because of the pending suit. (Prior to the suit, the chancellor of the university offered this defense of recent decisions.) A largely anonymous collective is gathering more documents for the Web site. Tim Noble, a 2002 alumnus, agreed to speak for attribution as he registered the domain name. He said that the documents show different things. Self-studies prepared for accreditors show that the college was turning itself around in the 1990s, and data cite increases in enrollments, retention rates and various measures of student satisfaction. The board has described Antioch College as being ?in gradual decline since the 1970s,? Noble said, justifying its decision to suspend operations. But he said that it is the current priorities of the board that have created the problems. ?They made a mess and they are denying responsibility for that mess.? The details provided about the future of the college also should concern people who care about it, he said. While the college is generally discussed in the documents as one Antioch campus among many, Noble said that in itself was wrong. ?The college is the source of what Antioch is,? he said. And the college has stood for ?inclusive and representative decision making,? while the current administration thinks otherwise, he said. A few examples: A timeline prepared for the board about how Antioch College might be revived after it suspends operations calls for the first new faculty members to be hired in 2010. (All faculty will lose their jobs after the coming academic year.) While few details are provided about who would be hired or in what fields or what capacity, one detail is clear: The document specifies that they would not have tenure. That is significant because Antioch College is the only division of Antioch that has tenured faculty members, so its elimination would effectively eliminate tenure for the university system. Aside from the question of tenure, the documents suggest that the administration is not anxious for professors to play too active a role in governance. In a report prepared last year by Toni Murdock, chancellor of the university, on the governance of Antioch, she wrote that ?one might question whether there should be any communication between trustees and disgruntled faculty.? While noting that professors have a legitimate role in questions of curriculum and academic programs and selecting academic officials, Murdock wrote that ?potential controversy surfaces? when faculty members attempt ?to influence board members through direct contact and participation.? She went on to cite ?generally accepted analysis? that faculties are made up of spectators (60 percent), apathetics (30 percent), activists (10 percent). With this breakdown, she wrote, professors are unlikely to enjoy ?participatory democracy? because they will be represented by the 10 percent who are activists. ?Does the faculty really want 10 percent of its members to speak for all of them?? she asked. Leaving aside the question of whether those percentages of faculty are generally correct, many at Antioch say that they do not apply to the college, where there is a much stronger tradition of professors taking governance seriously. Murdock?s recommendation was that professors be encouraged ?to focus on trustees as potential resources rather than as adversaries.? Given that professors sued the board this week, it seems likely that they won?t be swayed by the memo. ? Scott Jaschik Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 15:15:48 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 15:29:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <61530000c3c51799fc5699f536f1bb23@www.antiochians.org> what time zone is it in? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 15:46:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 16:00:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar In-Reply-To: <61530000c3c51799fc5699f536f1bb23@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: eastern standard time >what time zone is it in? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 19:52:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:06:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? Message-ID: This is absolutely horrifying though completely unsurprising. Try to kill the faculty tenure, and now blame the faculty for why there can be no webinar. No financials. No questions. Un-friggin-believable. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:00:48 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Shawn Gaynor (dr_broccoli@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:00:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] webinar a bust Message-ID: <1587f3c32349bcc38f8b8b1287fc761d@www.antiochians.org> They ditched on the webinar! They will not talk about budget now that they can?t lie. Cowards! Surrender! Shawn Gaynor '97 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:02:31 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jessica lipnack (jessica.lipnack@netage.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:02:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0175629746097e61275f4ebf1964734c@www.antiochians.org> >This is absolutely horrifying though completely unsurprising. Try to kill the faculty tenure, and now blame the faculty for why there can be no webinar. > >No financials. No questions. Un-friggin-believable. Jeff, I absolutely agree with you. I am flabbergasted. I played it at 7:43. OMG!!! Surely they could have said something. --jessica '70 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:02:34 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Shawn Gaynor (dr_broccoli@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:02:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] webinar Message-ID: They ditched on the webinar! They will not talk about budget now that they can?t lie. Cowards! Surrender! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:06:27 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:06:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <0175629746097e61275f4ebf1964734c@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <843f9e86c891e0af37a1c98849abe2b6@antiochians.org> >>This is absolutely horrifying though completely unsurprising. Try to kill the faculty tenure, and now blame the faculty for why there can be no webinar. >> >>No financials. No questions. Un-friggin-believable. >Jeff, I absolutely agree with you. I am flabbergasted. I played it at 7:43. OMG!!! Surely they could have said something. > >--jessica '70 Nope. They're finally getting smart and listening to good advice. First smarth thing they've done. Mentioning any of the baloney they had prepared would have screwed them in court. Anyway, they're saving the good stuff for the discovery process. Once it gets entered into evidence, it become public record (except for things the judge would agree should remain confidential, like personnel information). If you want to hear the REAL numbers, give generously to the Faculty Legal Information Fund at http://antiochfaculty.org . :) Alan Benard, '92 From jdavid at coldren.net Thu Aug 16 20:14:27 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:15:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011b01c7e063$9475f110$bd61d330$@net> It IS horrifying and completely unsurprising. By not waiting for a few days before filing suit, the faculty has now deprived all of us (as well as themselves) of whatever information might have been shared with us tonight. Whether we believe everything or nothing that the Board Chair and Chancellor would have said this evening., at least we would have had an opportunity to have them ON THE PUBLIC RECORD with data, graphs, and charts. Now, we'll have to wait to read the depositions over the next several months as this drags on and the College is further damaged in the public eye. As usual only the attorneys win. J. David Coldren '65 This e-mail and any attachments transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Further, they may be subject to Executive Privilege or the attorney work product doctrine. If you are not the named addressee, this e-mail and any attachments have been received by you in error and you are legally prohibited from reading, copying, retaining in any format or disseminating this e-mail or any of its attachments. Your erroneous receipt of this e-mail and any attachments shall not constitute a waiver of any privilege or confidentiality, Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail and any attachments in error and delete them from your system. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com) Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:53 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? This is absolutely horrifying though completely unsurprising. Try to kill the faculty tenure, and now blame the faculty for why there can be no webinar. No financials. No questions. Un-friggin-believable. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From afrye at bitwisesystems.com Thu Aug 16 20:18:41 2007 From: afrye at bitwisesystems.com (Ann Frye) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:19:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] webinar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C4E961.5010307@bitwisesystems.com> This reminds me of something that happened to a friend of mine recently. Her father-in-law died a year or two ago, then his second wife died more recently. Seems the widow took his will and used White Out to remove all references to his 5 living children, hoping to divert his estate to her own children. I guess she thought it would work. Maybe the Chancellor expected something similar. Ann, '56-'61 >They ditched on the webinar! They will not talk about budget now that they can?t lie. Cowards! Surrender! > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:22:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:22:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <011b01c7e063$9475f110$bd61d330$@net> Message-ID: <7930d4bb84368744c8e0c31704e5b958@antiochians.org> Come to think of it, it is a wise move on the faculty's part to have prevented this parade of misinformation from spilling out of our monitors this evening. They can tell the truth until they're blue in the face, the faculty, but nothing adds weight to lies like fancy titles, expensive whiz-bang Web casts and pie charts. A propaganda coup. Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:27:20 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:27:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] webinar In-Reply-To: <46C4E961.5010307@bitwisesystems.com> Message-ID: <5bf7d633f5407f7d23999579b2279361@antiochians.org> >This reminds me of something that happened to a friend of mine recently. >Her father-in-law died a year or two ago, then his second wife died more >recently. Seems the widow took his will and used White Out to remove all >references to his 5 living children, hoping to divert his estate to her >own children. I guess she thought it would work. Maybe the Chancellor >expected something similar. Ann, you have just planted a big, goofy smile on my face. Perfect!! Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:35:09 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:35:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents Message-ID: <0512b18937709c692be41e4c073773dc@www.antiochians.org> If any of you are surprised by this, you shouldn't be. Once a lawsuit happens, either party would be crazy to give information publicly. Whether you are enamored with the BoT or not or somewhere in between, any person who knows anything about legal proceedings should have seen this coming. If you choose to blame the BoT for not having a webinar, I suggest you educate yourself about litigation. Timing is everything. Deb '83 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:38:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Shawn Gaynor (dr_broccoli@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:38:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <7930d4bb84368744c8e0c31704e5b958@antiochians.org> Message-ID: J. David Coldren The facts are at www.antiochpaper.org . That's why they will not be giving you their truncated graphs and charts and their shaky conclusions. It has nothing to do with the faculty (or at least less to do with the faculty). They are backpedaling. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:43:49 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:43:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <7930d4bb84368744c8e0c31704e5b958@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <95108d1a76bf04b87e196e320d0d8200@antiochians.org> It's a mirage-inar! From danielfriedman at earthlink.net Thu Aug 16 20:45:25 2007 From: danielfriedman at earthlink.net (Daniel Friedman) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:45:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? Message-ID: The 11th-hour cancellation of the Zucker-Murdock webcast is an outrage. The attempt to blame the administration's stone-walling on the faculty's lawsuit and the repeated claim by Zucker and Murdock that they are "unable" to discuss the decision to declare financial exigency are sickening in their intellectual dishonesty. Murdock and Zucker are not *unable* to respond to questions about the BoT's actions; they are *unwilling"*. They are not compelled to follow the advice of the university's lawyers. Rather, they have *chosen* to follow that advice. If the administration and board are on solid legal footing and they have acted in good faith, they should be willing to open all documents and deliberations to scrutiny regardless of what their lawyers advise them. I suppose such transparency might, on some arcane legal theory, expose them to a theoretical personal liability (ANY LAWYERS ON THE LIST PLEASE JUMP IN); however, given their participation in the matricide of the college, I think Zucker and Murdock should have the moral courage to take-on such a risk if it exists. This latest retreat into the bunker changes the moral equation and should give the green light to anyone who's privy to inside information to take a stand as a whistle-blower and release any and all information to the Antioch Papers project [http:// theantiochpapers.org/] and the faculty legal team. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Daniel Friedman 1405 SW Park Avenue, Apt. 41 Portland, Oregon 97201 503?228?8615 danielfriedman@earthlink.net home.earthlink.net/~dfriedman1/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Emeritus Professor of Psychology Antioch College Yellow Springs, Ohio ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "In this world, there is one terrible thing, and it is that everyone has his reasons." ?A character in the Jean Renoir film, The Rules of the Game ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:47:51 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:47:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <0512b18937709c692be41e4c073773dc@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <85b37ffdadd4aaf22c7aedf6260695fc@antiochians.org> >If any of you are surprised by this, you shouldn't be. Once a lawsuit happens, either party would be crazy to give information publicly. Whether you are enamored with the BoT or not or somewhere in between, any person who knows anything about legal proceedings should have seen this coming. If you choose to blame the BoT for not having a webinar, I suggest you educate yourself about litigation. Timing is everything. > >Deb '83 Deb, while you may enjoy telling us that what was obvious all along /after the fact/, I for one would have liked to know in sdvance that the webinar would be nerfed. Considering that it was an mp3 and recorded ahead of time, I'm sure the University has known for at least a little while that the format was changing. I think it would have been common courtesy to let us know before the appointed hour. One might have even considered it civil. Skooter From mcconsult2000 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 16 20:48:11 2007 From: mcconsult2000 at yahoo.com (Dixie Maurer-clemons) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:48:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <626135.73845.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Shawn, I think most people agree with you. FYI antiochpaper.org is not available on the web this evening. Dixie Maurer "Shawn Gaynor (dr_broccoli@hotmail.com)" wrote: J. David Coldren The facts are at www.antiochpaper.org . That's why they will not be giving you their truncated graphs and charts and their shaky conclusions. It has nothing to do with the faculty (or at least less to do with the faculty). They are backpedaling. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:51:31 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:51:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <0512b18937709c692be41e4c073773dc@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4200cd5d4368c7e4e7fa31aa5a2eac39@antiochians.org> No need to condescend Deb. I doubt many of us are surprised, having expected the BOT was scrambling all along for any opportunity to cancel this webinar and the promise to answer live questions. The BOT has been trying to avoid giving any substantive answers to any questions since all this has begun. However, if Art and Toni were going to tell the truth and nothing but the truth tonight, then there would have been nothing to hide and they could have disregarded the suggestion of their counsel that they clam up. But they followed counsel's advice and said nothing other than "blame the faculty". From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:53:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:53:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <0512b18937709c692be41e4c073773dc@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Timing is everything. So is being candid and not wasting people's time. Within two minutes -- tops -- WYSO could have broadcast that no questions would be answered or information offered, given the lawsuit. From jdavid at coldren.net Thu Aug 16 20:53:05 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:54:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: References: <7930d4bb84368744c8e0c31704e5b958@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <012001c7e068$f98a75d0$ec9f6170$@net> Shawn, despite repeated attempts to reach the website antiochpaper.org you recommended. I can't get a response. Perhaps they are also backpedaling. J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Shawn Gaynor (dr_broccoli@hotmail.com) Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:39 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? J. David Coldren The facts are at www.antiochpaper.org . That's why they will not be giving you their truncated graphs and charts and their shaky conclusions. It has nothing to do with the faculty (or at least less to do with the faculty). They are backpedaling. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:58:01 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jessica lipnack (jessica.lipnack@netage.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:57:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <0512b18937709c692be41e4c073773dc@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <88caca89080bbdc63634b723551302ff@www.antiochians.org> >If any of you are surprised by this, you shouldn't be. Once a lawsuit happens, either party would be crazy to give information publicly. Whether you are enamored with the BoT or not or somewhere in between, any person who knows anything about legal proceedings should have seen this coming. If you choose to blame the BoT for not having a webinar, I suggest you educate yourself about litigation. Timing is everything. > >Deb '83 I'm guessing you're right legally speaking, Deb, but why not share the questions they received? How could that have hurt? I also agree with Skooter it would have been more courteous to announce the webinar cancellation as soon as they knew they were advised to go that route. I am still very surprised. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:58:30 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:58:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <0512b18937709c692be41e4c073773dc@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Whether you are enamored with the BoT or not or somewhere in between, any person who knows anything about legal proceedings should have seen this coming. If you choose to blame the BoT for not having a webinar, I suggest you educate yourself about litigation. > >Deb '83 The BoT knew the lawsuit was coming. There was even a faculty legal fund Web site set up! There has been talk of a faculty lawsuit in news accounts and press releases. The alumni are even chattering about a lawsuit. A few of the current students will likely sue. I still blame the BoT for once again reneging, hiding the ball, and blaming everyone but themselves. But, we get it Deb. You fetch coffee for lawyers. Congratulations. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 20:58:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)) Date: Thu Aug 16 20:58:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <0175629746097e61275f4ebf1964734c@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <09105534d695306782e696a5d9d5f679@antiochians.org> >Jeff, I absolutely agree with you. I am flabbergasted. I played it at 7:43. OMG!!! Surely they could have said something. > >--jessica '70 Jessica, Have a drink, get a good night's sleep, and call Gerry in the morning. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:05:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:05:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <012001c7e068$f98a75d0$ec9f6170$@net> Message-ID: <624220b7e725bf45705626015dbef4fb@antiochians.org> >Shawn, despite repeated attempts to reach the website antiochpaper.org you >recommended. I can't get a response. Perhaps they are also backpedaling. > > > >J. David Coldren '65 http://theantiochpapers.org/ Works fine. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:09:29 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:09:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <626135.73845.qm@web31811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8b99c2efc04adf4ad68341d0fcd8b1a1@antiochians.org> >FYI antiochpaper.org is not available on the web this evening. Dixie, The URL Shawn posted it wrong. The correct URL is: http://www.theantiochpapers.org/ From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:10:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:10:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <012001c7e068$f98a75d0$ec9f6170$@net> Message-ID: <1a3a53daf775aff08140ede8836688e9@antiochians.org> >Shawn, despite repeated attempts to reach the website antiochpaper.org you >recommended. I can't get a response. Perhaps they are also backpedaling. > > > >J. David Coldren '65 For your information, the Web site address is wwwtheantiochpapersorg. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:23:00 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:22:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo Message-ID: <1dd741b51f8bd85fd9306cc80b76c1b3@www.antiochians.org> they claim they have invited alums... anyone out there been invited? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:29:28 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Laura Fathauer (pas0705@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:29:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: <1dd741b51f8bd85fd9306cc80b76c1b3@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4aac13d36d7b2ad26fe73b6f16dc6a3c@antiochians.org> >they claim they have invited alums... anyone out there been invited? According to YS news, they asked the Alumni Board president to submit names that AU chose from... -laura From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:34:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:34:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5124a58f0bd45dc538d5bcaf79ce0559@antiochians.org> hey, classist, i fetch coffee for lawyers (but only those i respect) and perform all kinds of tasks at my job. i don't even hide behind a pseudonym. did you know that in many states, legal secretaries were able to take the bar exam after 7 years of experience? i think it is oh so predictable that so many people on this chat expect the BoT to exhibit exemplary behavior but never take a look in the mirror. everybody's acting like fools. nobody has a patent on it. i've got to go make another pot of coffee now. bye. >>Whether you are enamored with the BoT or not or somewhere in between, any person who knows anything about legal proceedings should have seen this coming. If you choose to blame the BoT for not having a webinar, I suggest you educate yourself about litigation. >> >>Deb '83 >The BoT knew the lawsuit was coming. There was even a faculty legal fund Web site set up! There has been talk of a faculty lawsuit in news accounts and press releases. The alumni are even chattering about a lawsuit. A few of the current students will likely sue. > >I still blame the BoT for once again reneging, hiding the ball, and blaming everyone but themselves. > >But, we get it Deb. You fetch coffee for lawyers. Congratulations. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 16 21:38:08 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:38:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <09105534d695306782e696a5d9d5f679@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >From: "Katherine Anne Stansbury (kathycallaway@whiz.to)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:58:59 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc2-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 16 >Aug 2007 17:58:58 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 452E1611270E;Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:58:58 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B9A61126F7for >; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:58:56 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1ILqB2-0004Fy-BFfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:59:00 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >vGzX0e+ktu70CtXFw5XC0n7E7rrM5X4BnPTbOdg6xjmBgIoIyQSup4lYA2G8X1Ozlon6ECQgkGdJpu1Oe5RUFQ== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2007 00:58:58.0611 (UTC) >FILETIME=[CB0C3030:01C7E069] > > > >Jeff, I absolutely agree with you. I am flabbergasted. I played it at >7:43. OMG!!! Surely they could have said something. > > > >--jessica '70 >Jessica, >Have a drink, get a good night's sleep, and call Gerry in the morning. > [img]http://www.zanyvideos.com/uploads/img_dawg_1155963312.jpg[/img] "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:43:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:43:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <0175629746097e61275f4ebf1964734c@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >>This is absolutely horrifying though completely unsurprising. Try to kill the faculty tenure, and now blame the faculty for why there can be no webinar. >> >>No financials. No questions. Un-friggin-believable. >Jeff, I absolutely agree with you. I am flabbergasted. I played it at 7:43. OMG!!! Surely they could have said something. > >--jessica '70 Interesting to see what makes you "flabbergasted." >OMG!!! Such emotion, Jessica. What makes me flabbergasted is to see the BOT announce they intend to close Antioch College. Jane Slater Class of '80 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 21:44:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jessica lipnack (jessica.lipnack@netage.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 21:44:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <543deeac8e39a4049e2cad40f0db3faf@www.antiochians.org> Gerry, give it a rest. You're so smart. Stop wasting your time making fun of me. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 22:11:13 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 22:11:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: <4aac13d36d7b2ad26fe73b6f16dc6a3c@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >>they claim they have invited alums... anyone out there been invited? >According to YS news, they asked the Alumni Board president to submit names that AU chose from... > >-laura And the BOT is lining up well-heeled benefactors for their "dream." So... how would Everett Wilson describe the BOT's recent plans? In terms of a liberal arts education, I don't think the BOT or AU leadership would come out unscathed. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 16 22:52:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jude (judemers@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 16 22:52:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Position Not Created Message-ID: <98480db8acde1da7fc90a4caac31ad21@antiochians.org> Imagine how much of a head ache we all would not have now. I definitely believe hind sight 20 20 that this decision by Al Guskin, thanks for saving the college, was a mistake. I think that no one involved had the foresight to see the mistake coming from the Board of Trustees. How and when did Board of Trustees ever have connections to military intelligence before now? THe new parking lot for the new Mcgregor is open. I drove around it last night. It was a wonderful drive in Yellow Springs if you get the chance. I guess our pedestrian draw bridge like side walk to the college is done now across our man made mini lakes. call me if you need a friend 9373019064 Can part of our law suit give our old powers back to the president to succeed Steve and Will someone please ask Al to step in and help again he is a genius and on faculty for the PHD program that travels all the universities. Thanks to Scott from Antiochiana for the info. anyone watch American Blackout check it out it has congresswoman Mckinney the truth sayer and savior of american government exposing overt covert racism from our current administration both to buy the presidency of our country and to marginalize already victims of institutionalized racism in ways that look like pre integration america civil rights violations the closing of antioch another one i will try and speak up and out more in here please encourage me jude www.myspace.com/judelogandemers www.myspace.com/mrmcjudelogandemers From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 16 23:43:21 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 16 23:43:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: <543deeac8e39a4049e2cad40f0db3faf@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Gerry, give it a rest. You're so smart. Stop wasting your time making fun >of me. > > you dont like my cats? _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 17 04:46:09 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 17 04:46:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/16/2007 7:50:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tedgoertzel@gmail.com writes: I'm sorry we didn't get to hear the WEB presentation because of the lawsuit. It seems like an excuse but that is the kind of advice lawyers usually give. I am sure the Board will also decline to talk about finances or the reasons for closing at the Aug 25 meeting. They will want to limit discussion to visions for 2012. People may use the occasion to make arguments or ventilate against the Board, but they won't be under any pressure to respond. What the lawsuit seems to have done is cut off any possibility of a political decision and left everything up to a judge. All we can do, apparently, is wait and see what comes out of the lawsuit. This may end up being a good thing because once the judge rules everyone will accept the ruling even if they don't like it. It is hard for me to imagine a judge ruling that the Board has to keep the college open, but I am not a lawyer. Does anyone know of any precedent for that? Anyone out there with a legal background in this area? Anyone still think there is any point is mobilizing pressure against the Board outside of the lawsuit? Ted, I expect the faculty suit will be settled with an agreement on some sort of severance package. The harm done to the faculty is essentially loss of economic security and perhaps career or professional damages. But it is hard to argue that an organization operating at a deficit over a number of years should continue to operate so as to acquire an even greater deficit, as a means of contributing to employees economic security and well being. Non-Profit Corporate Law makes the trustees of a non profit the fiduciaries for that organization, and if the BoT can demonstrate during what ever kind of discovery/hearing process is required, that they made a reasonable business decision given the facts at their disposal and the consultants they employed to advise them, the argument that one should stay open and pile up more debt will not get much sympathy from any judge. If the judge is sympathetic to the faculty there may be pressure to negotiate a severance package as settlement -- and the BoT will have to weigh that against things like community good will, costs of further litigation and all the rest. There are lots of instances in Ohio Labor Law ever since so much manufacturing industry left Ohio of employees applying for injunctions against closing a shop or business, and virtually all of them have failed. So given that most judges follow precedent, I seriously doubt any injunction will be issued. >From what I can tell the Ohio Appeals courts have never overturned such a lower court decision on injunctive relief. So if the BoT wins that argument, they will actually have something they don't have now, and that is case-law legal approval of their decision to suspend operations on purely business arguments. Since the BoT under state law has the fiduciary responsibility to protect the property assets of the institution they serve, this Faculty action promises to put BoT in even firmer control of those assets. If in the end the BoT negotiates a severance package, it will probably tack on sealing the court records and non-disclosure agreements as the price for participating in severance. So no one will really know what happened. Does anyone other than Faculty likely have standing? I rather doubt it. The University has promised degree completion opportunities in other units of Antioch U to students who want that option, and they are offering transfer assistance. I think that probably will be considered meeting obligations to current students. The Alumni Board might have some approaches to legal action, though not necessarily to keeping the current college open. I think they might find favor in the courts if they sought to preserve the endowment for the future college if it looks like the University is messing with it. But to do that, they would have to be a separate corporate entity from the University, and right now they are more or less an advisory committee to the Development Office. And the Development Office is part of the University. I realize I am throwing up lots of cold water today, but sometimes it's useful as a wake-up. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 05:24:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 05:24:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >But it is hard to argue that an organization operating at a deficit over a number of years >should continue to operate so as to acquire an even greater deficit, as a >means of contributing to employees economic security and well being. To which organization are you referring - Antioch University, or Antioch College? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 07:47:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 07:47:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Development Office (actually the Office of Advancement now) is a College office, not a University Office. The current Director of Advancement reports to the College President. The only cross over function is the director of research who also does some research for other campuses. One third of this salary is paid by the University, unless that has changed since I left a year ago. Most Antiochians I know aren't the "sit around and see what the judge has to say" types and since there are a number of alumni who are lawyers, I would also say that the ones I know also aren't going to calmy accept an unfavorable ruling either. The faculty are actually the only group with any legal standing to file a suit because of their contractual relationship to the institution as approved by the BoT through the Faculty Personnel Policies. I believe the cold water came a couple of months ago and, thankfully, many folks did finally wake up! Callie >In a message dated 8/16/2007 7:50:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >tedgoertzel@gmail.com writes: > >I'm sorry we didn't get to hear the WEB presentation because of the lawsuit. >It seems like an excuse but that is the kind of advice lawyers usually >give. I am sure the Board will also decline to talk about finances or the >reasons for closing at the Aug 25 meeting. They will want to limit discussion to >visions for 2012. People may use the occasion to make arguments or ventilate >against the Board, but they won't be under any pressure to respond. What the >lawsuit seems to have done is cut off any possibility of a political >decision and left everything up to a judge. All we can do, apparently, is wait and >see what comes out of the lawsuit. This may end up being a good thing >because once the judge rules everyone will accept the ruling even if they don't >like it. It is hard for me to imagine a judge ruling that the Board has to keep >the college open, but I am not a lawyer. Does anyone know of any precedent >for that? Anyone out there with a legal background in this area? Anyone >still think there is any point is mobilizing pressure against the Board outside >of the lawsuit? > > > >Ted, I expect the faculty suit will be settled with an agreement on some >sort of severance package. The harm done to the faculty is essentially loss of >economic security and perhaps career or professional damages. But it is hard >to argue that an organization operating at a deficit over a number of years >should continue to operate so as to acquire an even greater deficit, as a >means of contributing to employees economic security and well being. Non-Profit >Corporate Law makes the trustees of a non profit the fiduciaries for that >organization, and if the BoT can demonstrate during what ever kind of >discovery/hearing process is required, that they made a reasonable business decision >given the facts at their disposal and the consultants they employed to advise >them, the argument that one should stay open and pile up more debt will not >get much sympathy from any judge. If the judge is sympathetic to the faculty >there may be pressure to negotiate a severance package as settlement -- and >the BoT will have to weigh that against things like community good will, costs >of further litigation and all the rest. > >There are lots of instances in Ohio Labor Law ever since so much >manufacturing industry left Ohio of employees applying for injunctions against closing a >shop or business, and virtually all of them have failed. So given that most >judges follow precedent, I seriously doubt any injunction will be issued. >>From what I can tell the Ohio Appeals courts have never overturned such a >lower court decision on injunctive relief. So if the BoT wins that argument, >they will actually have something they don't have now, and that is case-law >legal approval of their decision to suspend operations on purely business >arguments. Since the BoT under state law has the fiduciary responsibility to >protect the property assets of the institution they serve, this Faculty action >promises to put BoT in even firmer control of those assets. If in the end the >BoT negotiates a severance package, it will probably tack on sealing the court >records and non-disclosure agreements as the price for participating in >severance. So no one will really know what happened. > >Does anyone other than Faculty likely have standing? I rather doubt it. >The University has promised degree completion opportunities in other units of >Antioch U to students who want that option, and they are offering transfer >assistance. I think that probably will be considered meeting obligations to >current students. The Alumni Board might have some approaches to legal action, >though not necessarily to keeping the current college open. I think they >might find favor in the courts if they sought to preserve the endowment for the >future college if it looks like the University is messing with it. But to do >that, they would have to be a separate corporate entity from the University, >and right now they are more or less an advisory committee to the Development >Office. And the Development Office is part of the University. > >I realize I am throwing up lots of cold water today, but sometimes it's >useful as a wake-up. > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From wasb at albany.edu Fri Aug 17 08:00:33 2007 From: wasb at albany.edu (Stephen L. Wasby) Date: Fri Aug 17 08:00:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumniefforts? References: Message-ID: <005e01c7e0c6$3aafba90$59761a45@wasbdzt3eud7ix> Several brief responses to Sistersara: - The lawsuit has preempted alumni efforts only if the alumni want that to happen. Keeping pressure on the BoT by means other than (in addition to) the litigation is very important. One does not want the BofT to believe that "it is all up to the lawyers." - As the mention of the possibility of settlement with the faculty as to termination indicates, lawsuits settle. They settle because, in part, the information provided through discovery --information which, in this case, the BofT has been refusing to reveal-- is sufficiently embarrassing to the defendant that it is thought best to settle rather than take the risk of trial - As your comments suggest, the difficulty with this lawsuit might be constructing a remedy if the judge decides for the plaintiffs. I would think that a victory on the merits for the plaintiffs would be sufficiently embarrassing to the BofT (although there is the question: does ANYTHING embarrass them?) might lead to a settlement on the matter of remedy, which could go to reopening the College and on what basis. In short, even if (and as not a lawyer, and certainly not one practicing in Ohio) a judge is unlikely to "force" the reopening, it might nonetheless result from the lawsuit. Steve Wasby '59 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 4:46 AM Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumniefforts? > > In a message dated 8/16/2007 7:50:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > tedgoertzel@gmail.com writes: > > I'm sorry we didn't get to hear the WEB presentation because of the > lawsuit. > It seems like an excuse but that is the kind of advice lawyers usually > give. I am sure the Board will also decline to talk about finances or the > reasons for closing at the Aug 25 meeting. They will want to limit > discussion to > visions for 2012. People may use the occasion to make arguments or > ventilate > against the Board, but they won't be under any pressure to respond. What > the > lawsuit seems to have done is cut off any possibility of a political > decision and left everything up to a judge. All we can do, apparently, > is wait and > see what comes out of the lawsuit. This may end up being a good thing > because once the judge rules everyone will accept the ruling even if they > don't > like it. It is hard for me to imagine a judge ruling that the Board has > to keep > the college open, but I am not a lawyer. Does anyone know of any > precedent > for that? Anyone out there with a legal background in this area? Anyone > still think there is any point is mobilizing pressure against the Board > outside > of the lawsuit? > > > > Ted, I expect the faculty suit will be settled with an agreement on some > sort of severance package. The harm done to the faculty is essentially > loss of > economic security and perhaps career or professional damages. But it is > hard > to argue that an organization operating at a deficit over a number of > years > should continue to operate so as to acquire an even greater deficit, as a > means of contributing to employees economic security and well being. > Non-Profit > Corporate Law makes the trustees of a non profit the fiduciaries for that > organization, and if the BoT can demonstrate during what ever kind of > discovery/hearing process is required, that they made a reasonable > business decision > given the facts at their disposal and the consultants they employed to > advise > them, the argument that one should stay open and pile up more debt will > not > get much sympathy from any judge. If the judge is sympathetic to the > faculty > there may be pressure to negotiate a severance package as settlement -- > and > the BoT will have to weigh that against things like community good will, > costs > of further litigation and all the rest. > > There are lots of instances in Ohio Labor Law ever since so much > manufacturing industry left Ohio of employees applying for injunctions > against closing a > shop or business, and virtually all of them have failed. So given that > most > judges follow precedent, I seriously doubt any injunction will be issued. >>From what I can tell the Ohio Appeals courts have never overturned such a > lower court decision on injunctive relief. So if the BoT wins that > argument, > they will actually have something they don't have now, and that is > case-law > legal approval of their decision to suspend operations on purely business > arguments. Since the BoT under state law has the fiduciary > responsibility to > protect the property assets of the institution they serve, this Faculty > action > promises to put BoT in even firmer control of those assets. If in the > end the > BoT negotiates a severance package, it will probably tack on sealing the > court > records and non-disclosure agreements as the price for participating in > severance. So no one will really know what happened. > > Does anyone other than Faculty likely have standing? I rather doubt it. > The University has promised degree completion opportunities in other > units of > Antioch U to students who want that option, and they are offering > transfer > assistance. I think that probably will be considered meeting obligations > to > current students. The Alumni Board might have some approaches to legal > action, > though not necessarily to keeping the current college open. I think they > might find favor in the courts if they sought to preserve the endowment > for the > future college if it looks like the University is messing with it. But > to do > that, they would have to be a separate corporate entity from the > University, > and right now they are more or less an advisory committee to the > Development > Office. And the Development Office is part of the University. > > I realize I am throwing up lots of cold water today, but sometimes it's > useful as a wake-up. > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.11.19/956 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 > 9:48 AM > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 08:17:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 08:17:43 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1ddf0ee5068b4dabc92cf761857cfda9@www.antiochians.org> >In a message dated 8/16/2007 7:50:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >tedgoertzel@gmail.com writes: > >I'm sorry we didn't get to hear the WEB presentation because of the lawsuit. >It seems like an excuse but that is the kind of advice lawyers usually >give. I am sure the Board will also decline to talk about finances or the >reasons for closing at the Aug 25 meeting. In a word... bullshit. >They will want to limit discussion to >visions for 2012. People may use the occasion to make arguments or ventilate >against the Board, but they won't be under any pressure to respond. What the >lawsuit seems to have done is cut off any possibility of a political >decision and left everything up to a judge. No... it hasnt. just injunctive relief is up to the judge >All we can do, apparently, is wait and >see what comes out of the lawsuit. This may end up being a good thing >because once the judge rules everyone will accept the ruling even if they don't >like it. It is hard for me to imagine a judge ruling that the Board has to keep >the college open, but I am not a lawyer. Glad you admitted that because you clearly dont know a damn thing. >Does anyone know of any precedent >for that? Zehner v Alexander 1979 in the Commonwealth Courts of PA. Concerns Wilson College College, a school in a very similar situation to us. The judge who ruled on the case is still alive >Anyone out there with a legal background in this area? yes. I've done the research thanks. >Anyone >still think there is any point is mobilizing pressure against the Board outside >of the lawsuit? Yes... Full Spectrum Dominance is the way forward. >Ted, I expect the faculty suit will be settled with an agreement on some >sort of severance package. The harm done to the faculty is essentially loss of >economic security and perhaps career or professional damages. But it is hard >to argue that an organization operating at a deficit over a number of years >should continue to operate so as to acquire an even greater deficit, as a >means of contributing to employees economic security and well being. Non-Profit >Corporate Law makes the trustees of a non profit the fiduciaries for that >organization, and if the BoT can demonstrate during what ever kind of >discovery/hearing process is required, that they made a reasonable business decision >given the facts at their disposal and the consultants they employed to advise >them, the argument that one should stay open and pile up more debt will not >get much sympathy from any judge. If the judge is sympathetic to the faculty >there may be pressure to negotiate a severance package as settlement -- and >the BoT will have to weigh that against things like community good will, costs >of further litigation and all the rest. Execpt that the outfit as a whole is solvenent and the judge will have to weigh alumni potential contributions. In Zenher V Alexander the Judge unseated the board and gave Wilson college to the plaintiffs essentially. >I realize I am throwing up lots of cold water today, but sometimes it's >useful as a wake-up. Thanks I prefer coffee. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 09:26:51 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 09:26:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <5124a58f0bd45dc538d5bcaf79ce0559@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <1dad3ea11dc0536739fc211a23acd4e6@antiochians.org> >i think it is oh so predictable that so many people on this chat expect the BoT to exhibit exemplary behavior I'm sure many of us would be satisfied if the BoT exhibited open and honest behavior. I think it is unlikely that the BoT "panicked" and had to shut down the webinar because of the faculty lawsuit. The BoT?s accusation that their *sudden* lack of transparency is to blame on the faculty is a shortsighted public relations stunt designed to: a) rationalize their refusal to provide evidence justifying their decision; and b) pathetically attempt to divide the stakeholders against each other. Remember that it had been nationally reported several weeks ago that University lawyers were renegotiating severance packages. Both parties knew that each side was lawyering up, or was lawyered up. In fact, their lawyers were in communication with each other. The BoT?s webinar had to be crafted around the assumption that such a lawsuit was forthcoming, and to suggest otherwise is just foolish. From pas0705 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 09:32:50 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Fri Aug 17 09:32:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Information you DIDN'T hear last night Message-ID: <419418.39203.qm@web63912.mail.re1.yahoo.com> This is a combination of two recent posts of mine to saveantioch. Here are some of the Known Knowns: We know the university told the Board in Oct 2005 that the college required $20 mil over the next 5 years. We know that a $10 mil gift for "implementing the renewal plan" is being used to cover operating deficits for FY 07 and FY 08. We know that the financial projections used to declare Financial Exigency were outdated on June 13, 2007. We know that as of June 12, 2007, net tuition revenue was approximately 60% of what it was in 2001-02. We know that in February 06, after an entering class less then a third what was in the renewal plan, the University declared that all budgets had been adjusted to show a positive balance. We know the BoT committed to find funding for operating deficits over $600,000 as a result of the implementation of the renewal curriculum. We know that categorical statements such as "the College has run a deficit for decades" and "enrollment has fallen since the student strikes" are untrue, no matter who says them. We know that the University considers the lack of College payment to the overhead of the University as a college "subsidy." We also know that consolidated services are exempt, and up until 7/1/07, the college *did* pay for those services (including IT, Finance, and HR). Here are some of the things we know we don't know: We know we don't have enough information on the use and/or possible misuse of roughly $5mil in restricted gift funds, and how that affected the financial projections. We know we don't have enough information on the level of giving used in the University's projections. We know we don't have any information on the current budget for the coming year. Here are the things that we don't know that we don't know: Ok, now moving along, here are some specific comments regarding items contained within the Antioch Papers. Seattle is planning on building a new building in '12. If it isn't through gifts, my speculation is they're already in negotiations to secure financing, and like the McGregor bond, the financial stability of the institution will be seriously considered in that financing. And we know the stability of the College relied on gifts until 2012, due to the implementation of the Renewal curriculum... In the data for the financial planning discussion, "enrollment history" is a UNIVERSITY historical enrollment, while the enrollment 'projections' are for the COLLEGE. Now, why would they do that? Moving to the question of restricted funds, in the "Close the College scenario" paper is a seemingly inconsequential comment on page 5: "Chancellor, CFO and ULC will create a plan to repay the restricted funds obligations to present to the Board at its February 2008 meeting." In the "Restricted funds cash position summary", we see listed a -$5mil remaining obligation, of which the College's portion is $2mil. In the Financial Planning assumptions, we see the statement: "Provides no plan for the repayment of restricted funds utilized to fund prior year deficits" Turning our sites tto McGregor, they are planning for 476 FTE undergrad enrollments for this coming year. Last year, undergrad tuition brought in $2,700,000. Overall tuition from McGregor last year was $7,101,250. Yes, McGregor is now bringing in more tuition then the college. IF the 7% of tuition agreement with McGregor was still in place, McGregor alone would have provided $497,000 in funding to the college last year. (Incidentally, this is the "business model" that the Chancellor and the Board Chair both state "cannot be sustained"). Some McGregor quotes: "The strength of the undergraduate program will build on offering courses at night and honing in on select majors and certificate programs of interest to this region." In 2007-2008, McGregor wants to "Expand evening and day-time course offerings in response to increased classroom availability" In McGregor's budget report, they added: "While we have spoken above of future opportunities, we do want to state we built the Campus West pro forma based on a lot of research and solid history. If the operations of McGregor changed significantly due to changes within the University- those that may impact image or enrollment - it may be difficult to meet the goals set. Any significant local press that confuses our students or supporters could have a devastating impact on McGregor. It must be said." Incidentally, McGregor's undergraduate program is called "The School of Liberal Studies." ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 09:43:56 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Fri Aug 17 09:44:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Information you DIDN'T hear last night Message-ID: <236604.73166.qm@web53403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> "Once I was young and impulsive I wore every conceivable pin Even went to the socialist meetings Learned all the old union hymns But I've grown older and wiser And that's why I'm turning you in So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal" >Incidentally, McGregor's undergraduate program is >called "The School of Liberal Studies." ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 10:27:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 10:27:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Information you DIDN'T hear last night In-Reply-To: <236604.73166.qm@web53403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85d8b45eef731c7203045ab8c19c3b54@antiochians.org> >"Once I was young and impulsive > >I wore every conceivable pin > >Even went to the socialist meetings > >Learned all the old union hymns > >But I've grown older and wiser > >And that's why I'm turning you in > >So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal" http://www.afterculture.org/mp3/MojoNixon-JelloBiafra_Love-Me-Im-A-Liberal.mp3 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 10:44:11 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 10:44:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar Message-ID: <545a65d32026d5e8c8ad5c42c657b703@antiochians.org> ALUMNI SEEK OPPORTUNITY TO RETURN ANTIOCH COLLEGE TO PROMINENCE, CANCELED WEBCAST DELAYS PROCESS OF AVERTING SUSPENSION OF OPERATIONS For the first time in more than a generation, Antioch College has the opportunity to reemerge as a healthy institution with leadership devoted solely to its future. While the opportunity is born of a crisis of governance and financial mis-steps, the alumni of Antioch College are now seeking to reclaim and rebuild the 155 year old liberal arts college known for rigorous academic study, cooperative education, social activism, and community governance. The Board of Directors of the Alumni Association encouraged its 17,000 members to participate in a webcast with University Chancellor, Dr. Toni Murdock, and Chair of the University Board of Trustees, Arthur Zucker in the hope that respectful dialogue would foster the transparency necessary to assess the needs of Antioch College. Alumni Board Treasurer, Rick Daily expressed his regret that the University elected to cancel the webcast based on the advice of counsel because of a pending lawsuit filed recently by members of the Antioch College faculty. On behalf of the Alumni Association, Nancy Crow ?70, President of the Alumni Board, recognized the faculty for the commitment they have historically made and continue to make to Antioch College. ?We share the faculty?s dedication to the uninterrupted continuation of Antioch College as an independent liberal arts college with a tenured faculty. We hope that their efforts will not be misused as a rationale by University leadership to avoid participating in the conver-sation that will lead to returning Antioch College to prominence,? said Crow. Some of the financial information that informed the University Board of Trustees? suspension decision is already avail-able in many different public forums. What has been missing for over two months has been the opportunity to discuss the financial details in an open conversation between Antioch College alumni and University leadership. The Alumni Board repeats its request for a full and frank discussion of the College?s current finances and future governance, and it expects that information to be presented at the University Board of Trustees meeting at the Holiday Inn Cincinnati Airport on August 25. The Alumni Board believes that the chosen venue will be less conducive to broad participation than would Kelly Hall at Antioch College; however, the Alumni Association will participate. The Alumni Board will also extend that dialogue this weekend, as College alumni chapters in Chicago, New York, San Francisco and 20 additional locations will gather at events during Support Antioch College Weekend August 17-19, in order to raise awareness and to increase the already widespread support for the revival of the College. Antioch College alumni reaffirm their commitment to open discussion of the future of Antioch College with the participation of the Board of Trustees and other stakeholders. Members of the Alumni Board, elected by the College alumni, look forward to that discussion?s being based on the Antiochian values of full community involvement and the free and open exchange of information. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 17 10:45:47 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Fri Aug 17 10:45:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] August 23rd is coming Message-ID: Well.....to work here in YS is basically a surprise everyday...especially since June 12th..... some of our lives have many surreal moments. and some of us really haven't much of a life.... busy trying to raise money for various funds....or raise morale..... Come to the farmer's market on Sattiday and you might see a faculty or alumni table....or under the LIL ART marquis.. a big mason jar with bills and checks........keep em comin......suitcases full would be optimal.. But I guess you folks out there can guess that that might be the case. Next week the freshmen will arrive...and many of us will do our absolute best for them... One of them is the son of two Antiochians I know from thirty years ago...two Antiochians who met and fell in love and are still living happily ever after. It does happen!!! All of us are riding a rollercoaster of alternating hope and anxiety.... The majority of us have deep tentacles into the community. A staff member with whom I have worked for almost ever and I discussed some things...and we seem pretty much to be on the same page... some insensitive dunderheads might say "Oh it's just a job".. real Antiochians know better...it eventually becomes YOU, your identity...and you become fairly obssessed. At least four of the laid off library employees pass through at intervals.....they have brought muffins, decadent coffee cakes...and some fellowship......this is the kind of COMMUNITY the commuting campuses will likely never achieve since much of their programs and faculty come and go like a series of seasonal flowers in the glen.....not real continuity nor community...and not much democracy...mcgregor faculty use the library and tell the truth as pass through.....they suffer lots...I have known some of them for twenty years as well. Anyhow...the return of students.....about 200 of them...will be a welcome distraction from some of this craziness. Speaking of surreal moments I had an afternoon phone call yesterday right before closing from area code 301.... sounded like an elderly person...and I really couldn't tell how boneyfide they were. probably just boney Saying they were ready to spend alot of money on us.........as the conversation continued they asked me about all the campuses, where they were and their programs..... and then they said "It isn't everyday you find a university campus up for sale..." made me wonder have we been advertised in some strange trade magazine of something..a fellow staff member thought it might be on ebay..just kiddinnnnng I felt it had to be a crank call and then gave them Toni's assistant's phone number... and told them.. well...you might have a hard time getting through. They called me I guess because the library is one place where a human always answers the phone.....elsewhere you get the awful voice mail olympix... I would hate to be a parent or student with a true emergency......technology....it will save you, eh? Maybe I will see some of y'all at the meeting in Cinti....... everyone please bring open minds, open hearts and open checkbooks if you can....and being an antiochian I would say It's all up to you.....free will is still in operation. and please everyone keep your eye on the prize...or the "patient"......whatever metaphor for the aging and ill mother campus comes to your mind.....its our collective legacy and worth fighting to fix...and sniping at each other is a waste of good Antiochian energy. Please figure a way to enlighten and help the BOT......they probably would become great allies..given the proper attitude and dollar amount....wouldn't they like to become closer to heros than zeros? they may be suffering from a history of slightly spun facts. you are what you are fed. You all might be getting a letter within a fortnight from the Office of Institutional Advancement with text and pictures..including my old burnout tie-dyed self. All things considered we might need a few dollars for things like the water bill, and toilet paper and tofu. You older alums do know what tofu is, eh? I guess I will parcel out some meager donations to that fund as well as the other two...which are for the faculty and the alumni revival efforts. And I am not a purist so if I can live with ambiguities in any their spending....I feel most of it is likely to help in one of the struggles in through here. It may be like the penny from the widow that Jesus mentions in the Bible. That "penny" is worth much more because it has pure intent. If you can think in threes that would be wonderful. Annual fund, revival fund and shhh that faculty fund. Any help, in any arena, is a good thing...even if were to call an old friend and say "have you thought about how to help that crazy old place" it needs your help YS is beautiful when the leaves change....if you need a three day getaway think about us...while we are still ...here...as we are.. Duffy '77 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 10:56:52 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Fri Aug 17 10:56:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00b16407cb874c7ae9a9298b90e6a442@www.antiochians.org> Sister Sara writes: Ted, I expect the faculty suit will be settled with an agreement on some sort of severance package. The harm done to the faculty is essentially loss of economic security and perhaps career or professional damages. But it is hard to argue that an organization operating at a deficit over a number of years should continue to operate so as to acquire an even greater deficit, as a means of contributing to employees economic security and well being. Non-Profit Corporate Law makes the trustees of a non profit the fiduciaries for that organization, and if the BoT can demonstrate during what ever kind of discovery/hearing process is required, that they made a reasonable business decision given the facts at their disposal and the consultants they employed to advise them, the argument that one should stay open and pile up more debt will not get much sympathy from any judge. If the judge is sympathetic to the faculty there may be pressure to negotiate a severance package as settlement -- and the BoT will have to weigh that against things like community good will, costs of further litigation and all the rest. Sally, The faculty is seeking an injunction to (a) Stop the closing. (b) Protect the assets. Already there have been surveyors and parties examining buildings on campus, already there have been office moves to empty certain buildings -- for mothballing or for demolition, we don't know. Already there have been offers to some outside of Yellow Springs to buy property. We have no idea what happens to endowment earnings and growth in the short term, and are uncertain about outcomes for the Coretta Scott King Center and the Glen. The assets used by the College need to be protected. (c) Prevent further damage to the College and its reputation. Announcing the closing publicly (actually before announcing it on campus), the Board did substantial damage to the prospects of the College -- in recruitment of students, in retention of current students, and in fundraising. Since the announcement, University staff and Trustees, and even the College President have made disparaging and damaging comments about the College, it's programs, its students and its faculty. If this continues, the failure of the College will be a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Accomplishing the above through an injunction would allow the Alumni Board and others sufficient time to organize, to raise money, to develop detailed plans and to seek avenues of negotiation. It seems to me that the law firm retained by the faculty has a bit more knowledge, savvy and insight than all the sidewalk supervising and pedestrian opinions that you might provide. Bob From jazzypanda at yahoo.com Fri Aug 17 11:23:28 2007 From: jazzypanda at yahoo.com (Amanda) Date: Fri Aug 17 11:23:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] theantiochpapers.org Message-ID: <773153.25410.qm@web38914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The website with various Antioch-related documents is: theantiochpapers.org (re: some confusion about it being www.antiochpaper.org) -Amanda --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. From dlbahr at hotmail.com Fri Aug 17 11:47:59 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Fri Aug 17 11:48:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumniefforts In-Reply-To: <00b16407cb874c7ae9a9298b90e6a442@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Good luck with the injunction. We hope to send a check soon to faculty defense fund. Reading your comments reminds me of an organization I would like to start--I always thought it had an Antiochian flare: "The Local Pedestrians" I might just invite Sister Sara to be its first member. I am not sure Bob could handle it but I might consider his application. Lesley A. Pownall Bahr '83 Buffalo, MN >From: "bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted >alumniefforts >Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:56:52 -0500 > >Sister Sara writes: > >Ted, I expect the faculty suit will be settled with an agreement on some >sort of severance package. The harm done to the faculty is essentially >loss of >economic security and perhaps career or professional damages. But it is >hard >to argue that an organization operating at a deficit over a number of >years >should continue to operate so as to acquire an even greater deficit, as a >means of contributing to employees economic security and well being. >Non-Profit >Corporate Law makes the trustees of a non profit the fiduciaries for that >organization, and if the BoT can demonstrate during what ever kind of >discovery/hearing process is required, that they made a reasonable business > decision >given the facts at their disposal and the consultants they employed to >advise >them, the argument that one should stay open and pile up more debt will >not >get much sympathy from any judge. If the judge is sympathetic to the >faculty >there may be pressure to negotiate a severance package as settlement -- >and >the BoT will have to weigh that against things like community good will, >costs >of further litigation and all the rest. > >Sally, > >The faculty is seeking an injunction to > >(a) Stop the closing. > >(b) Protect the assets. Already there have been surveyors and parties >examining buildings on campus, already there have been office moves to >empty certain buildings -- for mothballing or for demolition, we don't >know. Already there have been offers to some outside of Yellow Springs to >buy property. We have no idea what happens to endowment earnings and >growth in the short term, and are uncertain about outcomes for the Coretta >Scott King Center and the Glen. The assets used by the College need to be >protected. > >(c) Prevent further damage to the College and its reputation. Announcing >the closing publicly (actually before announcing it on campus), the Board >did substantial damage to the prospects of the College -- in recruitment of >students, in retention of current students, and in fundraising. Since the >announcement, University staff and Trustees, and even the College President >have made disparaging and damaging comments about the College, it's >programs, its students and its faculty. If this continues, the failure of >the College will be a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. > >Accomplishing the above through an injunction would allow the Alumni Board >and others sufficient time to organize, to raise money, to develop detailed >plans and to seek avenues of negotiation. > >It seems to me that the law firm retained by the faculty has a bit more >knowledge, savvy and insight than all the sidewalk supervising and >pedestrian opinions that you might provide. > >Bob > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 12:02:33 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:02:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <357eb7c2371fa44057ff2683d3a25f83@www.antiochians.org> Lesley, How completely Antiochian! I surely am a member! I would prefer to call it the "Sidewalk Supervisors" however. Can I be on the Board? Jane Slater Class of '80 Muckrakers Union 501 and Accident Rubbernecker Corp. Member since 1975 From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 17 12:10:11 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:06:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] soooooo Message-ID: "And the BOT is lining up well-heeled benefactors for their "dream." So... how would Everett Wilson describe the BOT's recent plans? In terms of a liberal arts education, I don't think the BOT or AU leadership would come out unscathed." Jeff, I had the same thought. I can only imagine how the faculty from now and generations past who committed their lives to Antioch (because they loved it and BECAUSE THEY HAD TENURE and thus could give it everything they had) would be feeling now. From eayres at comcast.net Fri Aug 17 12:08:30 2007 From: eayres at comcast.net (E. Daniel Ayres) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:09:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another "pet theory" Message-ID: <005901c7e0e8$dad846f0$9088d4d0$@net> Matt's theory and the considerations that follow spark this thought. There is an old aphorism about "too many chiefs and not enough Indians." Frankly, most "modern western political and economic organizations" have that problem, and Antioch College > Antioch University > current situation is an example of the natural progression which contains that thread. After the "new direction" initiatives that got the college into graduate education programming, there were plenty of people willing to step up, take "industry standard" compensation, and muddle through the process of learning how to manage new programs. Antioch was heavily taxed by the mistakes these people made, and the board was unable/unwilling to reign in the growth in the number of executive positions which were being funded by a static or declining revenue base. By the time we got to situations like that of Guskin and Crowfoot, we were pretty much getting shafted by the "you get what you pay for" problem (high priced talent does exist but finding and effectively using it is increasingly difficult when decline is already apparent.) I believe we also have seen a lot of subtle and some very blatant self-interested jockeying for power by all of the parties to conflicts over the declining Antioch resource pie. I believe that a chief must have a completely altruistic vision of the role in a sustainable culture. In a "development focused" culture, you can get away for a while with way too many high paid executives who consciously or unconsciously take a bigger and bigger share of the limited resources from the enterprise in return for too little that serves the purposes of the enterprise. But.. as in Antioch's case, you can't do it forever. The past 20-30 years of ballooning executive compensation and golden parachute secret deals is pulling the whole world toward a major collapse of the social fabric which will probably not be addressed until too way late for any form of a smooth transition to sustainability. This seems to me to be a fundamental flaw in the culture of 20th century corporate capitalism. Our question needs to be, "What is the governance structure needed to insure emergence and survival of sustainable enterprises in the coming century?" As usual, Antioch in its' role as a "laboratory for democracy" is on the bleeding edge of this coming upheaval. It will be very interesting to see when/if consensus on a governance structure and coordinated positive movement toward a common goal is achieved or will ever be achievable. I'm not convinced one way or the other and bask in the luxury of being too old to realistically see my way clear to knowing the answers. I'm real excited to hear the suggestions that come up, and totally disheartened by many things which apparently continue to go on unchecked. Current "urban myth" speculation about the interests of "developers" in "stealing" the Antioch College real estate is typical. If the whole UBoT were to follow up the campus closure with their own resignations, I doubt if we would be better off in the long run. Would people willing to step up and be replacements be any more capable or committed to traditional undergraduate liberal education? Are there altruistic visionary leaders willing to work for a dollar a year out there? For many Antiochians, the kind of adversarial posturing favored by perpetually disenfranchised "underdogs" seems to be a preferred mode of dealing with a crisis. Frankly, in my experience the likelihood of failure if that strategy is adopted is extremely high. E. Daniel Ayres '66 Aka. ZundapMan http://home.comcast.net/~eayres From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 12:35:09 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:35:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: <545a65d32026d5e8c8ad5c42c657b703@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <1d1565ccacca58a2c65f29e61f0b44e0@www.antiochians.org> Um, thats it? Thats the response to a stonewalling bunch of arseholes that are hijacking the heritage of Antioch to further ridiculous corporate babble about the future of education? I want to hear from the Legal Committee. Where is the research on Alumni Standing to seek injunctive relief. These people are atrocious bastards who have no interest in the open process of transition or reformation. The faculty lawsuit does not ask for damages, it asks for injunctive relief and saying that is why they are not going to release their financials implies directly that evidence of mismanagement will reasonably be inferred by a judge and jury. I know this is a standard reaction to a lawsuit but it just proves they are reactining like a typical corporation rather than one inspired by a mission. AB Executive Committee, your language is inappropriate and inadequate to AUBoT and the Chancellor's office. You can be civil and you can be stern at the same time. Travis From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 17 12:51:16 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:48:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] blaming the faculty Message-ID: Sister Sara writes: Does anyone other than Faculty likely have standing? I rather doubt it. The University has promised degree completion opportunities in other units of Antioch U to students who want that option, and they are offering transfer assistance. I think that probably will be considered meeting obligations to current students. The Alumni Board might have some approaches to legal action, though not necessarily to keeping the current college open. I think they might find favor in the courts if they sought to preserve the endowment for the future college if it looks like the University is messing with it. But to do that, they would have to be a separate corporate entity from the University, and right now they are more or less an advisory committee to the Development Office. And the Development Office is part of the University. And I wonder: IN Idaho, if my neighbor allows me to put a road through a corner of his property, and I use that road regularly for several years (five, in Idaho), and he knows that, then after five years, the implicit contract that we have had becomes a legally binding contract, and he can't take that easement away from me if and when he decides he wants to. I would think that the tradition of community governance and community decision making at Antioch is an implicit contract, or even quite possibly written into some documents somewhere, and that this new behavior by the Board violates that contract. THus, I think there might be legal standing for the Antioch Community to get the college back, or at least put it to a vote. THere is more at stake here than the current students and faculty. Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 12:55:29 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:55:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <1dad3ea11dc0536739fc211a23acd4e6@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Deb, I do wish you would stop beating everyone with your superficial understanding of legal procedures. For while you are correct that it is standard practice to stonewall on information after a proceeding begins, it is most uncommon to go on for several days letting everyone believe that a good faith effort was in place to answer some questions and release some financial data that is already in the public domain we wanted to understand how their interpretation of that data led to their decision. The only reason not to release the recorded MP3 presentation is out of fear that it might have revealed something beneficial to the faculty. This will happen anyway through the discovery process and it will cost AU a lot more to try to keep information and statements they had the intent to release from the plaintiffs than just allowing it into the public domain come good or bad. I do not know anything about discovery laws in Ohio but at the end of the day it will all come out and all this does is cripple all of us. As a seperate matter why is it you and Sally and leslie seem to think that it is immoral, greedy, dishonest and or stupid, to seek to enforce the terms of their contract with AU? Do we expect them to sacrafice any potential benefit they might receive should the college close and they are layed-off? Why? They can and should act in their own self interest and on a parallel track act in concert with the Alumni to keep the College going and rebuild it. The two are not mutually exclusive, in fact it is an insurance move to make sure they protect themselves by filing in a timely manner, a cross the t's and dot the i's sort of thing, on the remote chance that the Revival movement fails. I appreciate your work as a legal sec. they are the absolute backbone of any practice and I have known several that have gone on to become fine lawyers. I even know a few lawyers who dropped out of the rat race of partnership and become litigation secs because they work 9-5 never have to give up their holidays and only an idiot would yell at them. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 12:56:41 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 12:56:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: <1d1565ccacca58a2c65f29e61f0b44e0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <5ca083b9f57e6e0dc6e56f8691dd1c52@antiochians.org> >AB Executive Committee, your language is inappropriate and inadequate to AUBoT and the Chancellor's office. You can be civil and you can be stern at the same time. Well, it's about what I expected, Travis. The AB is showing it is receptive to an open dialogue, while expressing disappointment in a process not conducive to one. So long as there is any chance to salvage the college, this will likely be AB's tone and approach. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 13:04:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 13:04:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: <5ca083b9f57e6e0dc6e56f8691dd1c52@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <9e4e4997ea95f36f264a25d614535424@antiochians.org> >>AB Executive Committee, your language is inappropriate and inadequate to AUBoT and the Chancellor's office. You can be civil and you can be stern at the same time. >Well, it's about what I expected, Travis. The AB is showing it is receptive to an open dialogue, while expressing disappointment in a process not conducive to one. So long as there is any chance to salvage the college, this will likely be AB's tone and approach. Sugar. Then stick. AB From sjr5 at nyu.edu Fri Aug 17 13:10:49 2007 From: sjr5 at nyu.edu (Sonia Jaffe Robbins) Date: Fri Aug 17 13:10:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: <4aac13d36d7b2ad26fe73b6f16dc6a3c@antiochians.org> References: <1dd741b51f8bd85fd9306cc80b76c1b3@www.antiochians.org> <4aac13d36d7b2ad26fe73b6f16dc6a3c@antiochians.org> Message-ID: This sounds like the action of a totalitarian state. "We will meet with you to discuss your grievances, but we will choose who among you we decide to talk to." If you've read Murdock's October 2006 memo on theantiochpapers.org site ("Board of Trustees and Executives: Expectations in Communication and Responsibilities": http://theantiochpapers.org/index.php?id=10), it's obvious she fears having her authority threatened in any way, wants very clear and hierarchical lines of command, and in general has heavy issues with control. Sonia Jaffe Robbins Antioch College '60-'62, '64 sjr5@nyu.edu srobbins@reedbusiness.com http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting http://www.neww.org http://www.nwu.org ******************* "Writing is thinking, not thinking written down." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Fathauer (pas0705@yahoo.com)" Date: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:29 pm Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] sooooo To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >they claim they have invited alums... anyone out there been invited? > According to YS news, they asked the Alumni Board president to submit > names that AU chose from... > > -laura > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 13:19:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 13:19:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: <4aac13d36d7b2ad26fe73b6f16dc6a3c@antiochians.org> Message-ID: It would be nice if those who have received the royal invite would let others know. It's strangely quiet out there on this topic. Callie >>they claim they have invited alums... anyone out there been invited? >According to YS news, they asked the Alumni Board president to submit names that AU chose from... > >-laura From duffy at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 17 13:31:24 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Fri Aug 17 13:31:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is Duffy..'77...I am a stakeholder for the Union employees.....and this was done through an election process rather than a see-lection process. The Union is democratic.eh? Among administrative folks there wuz an uprising and an election and I believe Judith Kintner is that stakeholder. No one has really sent me any scenario yet..I found out where the meeting is while sitting in the Epic last night with about 20 or so YS folk and fac. Duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 14:08:00 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 14:08:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9e6e0a49da79808ed6fcc5d5a1b48fe5@antiochians.org> >This sounds like the action of a totalitarian state. "We will meet with you to discuss your grievances, but we will choose who among you we decide to talk to." > >If you've read Murdock's October 2006 memo on theantiochpapers.org site ("Board of Trustees and Executives: Expectations in Communication and Responsibilities": http://theantiochpapers.org/index.php?id=10), it's obvious she fears having her authority threatened in any way, wants very clear and hierarchical lines of command, and in general has heavy issues with control. > >Sonia Jaffe Robbins [img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/1150173619_5511695998_o.jpg[/img] "L'etat, c'es moi." -- Toni Murdock From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 14:32:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 14:32:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: <9e6e0a49da79808ed6fcc5d5a1b48fe5@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/1150173619_5511695998_o.jpg[/img] > >"L'etat, c'est moi." -- Toni Murdock [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/AllYourBaseAnimated.gif[/img] Toni: All your Antioch are belong to us. Alumni: What you say!! El Skootro From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 17 15:14:24 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 17 15:14:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2007 11:55:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: As a seperate matter why is it you and Sally and leslie seem to think that it is immoral, greedy, dishonest and or stupid, to seek to enforce the terms of their contract with AU? Do we expect them to sacrafice any potential benefit they might receive should the college close and they are layed-off? Why? They can and should act in their own self interest and on a parallel track act in concert with the Alumni to keep the College going and rebuild it. The two are not mutually exclusive, in fact it is an insurance move to make sure they protect themselves by filing in a timely manner, a cross the t's and dot the i's sort of thing, on the remote chance that the Revival movement fails. I don't oppose a well negotiated severance package for both Faculty and Staff -- in fact I would support a very clear and straightforward demand for one. I suspect it would have been easier to negotiate outside of a law suit than as the result of one however. Closing the college for 4-5 years impacts faculty very differently, and what is known should have been accommodated in a negotiated agreement. Antioch has the experience of the payless paydays back in the late 70's to review, in fact the Yalman part of the Wilson Yalman project deals with the economic and psychological impact of the lay-off's in great depth -- and the proper thing to do would be to use that information in setting up a process of negotiation and mediation between the Faculty and Staff, and the BoT. Academics with perhaps less than ten years professional career experience have a much better prospect of finding an equal or perhaps even better academic job. Those in mid-career or older are likely to face much greater problems in finding new positions of equal rank. Staff's ability to transition to new work depends very much on skill sets -- those with craft or technical skills are much easier to outplace, though Staff may have much more difficulty holding on to benefit packages (i.e. Family Health Care) than Academic Professionals. The proper way to do this would be to start with the Yalman Data, (which is Antioch Specific) then update given current Ohio Conditions, and then make projections for all the classifications of personnel who need to seek new employment, and negotiate severance packages based on those projections. For this you don't need a lawsuit -- you need a strategy for negotiation and perhaps mediation. Given the Yalman Data it seems that some attention should be given to mental health needs as people transition. Her work suggests a quite high incidence of clinical depression, and abuse of substance, and family breakdown among those in the transition process. Successful transitions more or less depended on finding resources to deal with these kinds of impacts. Staff had many of the same problems, increasing with the number of years they were associated with the college. I do believe the BoT has a responsibility to the Faculty and Staff of Antioch College to deal in a realistic and sensitive way with these matters, and it appears to me they have given little consideration to that obligation. But I suspect it will be much less likely to happen, and have a favorable outcome if people are at swords point with each other. I would suggest that one of the reasons this morphed into a confrontational lawsuit has to do with a profound absence of realism about the situation, resulting in huge layers of denial. One can argue day and night about the University and College budget and all -- but in the end the situation is that the College was not attracting sufficient tuition paying students to operate year by year in the black, or close to it, a situation that is necessary to avoid bankruptcy. We still don't understand precisely why this was the case -- m uch theory and hypothesis, but not all that much firm data. Nevertheless when you come up against probable bankruptcy, you have, as a Board of Trustees a legal fiduciary responsibility to take action to preserve the assets of the institution you hold responsibility for under law -- and denial of that responsibility is a serious issue. That is reality, and reality is sometimes hard to take. Illusions feel better. But since I want the College to re-open as a successful Liberal Arts College tuned to the realities of the 21st century, I tend toward splashing lots of cold water on illusions, and asking for things that are reality based, such as a high quality forensic audit and a detailed history of perhaps the last 40 years so we can understand "what went wrong" and re conceptualize so as to be much more successful in the future. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 17 15:42:33 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 17 15:42:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] blaming the faculty Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2007 11:48:41 A.M. Central Daylight Time, theodora@imbris.com writes: I would think that the tradition of community governance and community decision making at Antioch is an implicit contract, or even quite possibly written into some documents somewhere, and that this new behavior by the Board violates that contract. THus, I think there might be legal standing for the Antioch Community to get the college back, or at least put it to a vote. THere is more at stake here than the current students and faculty. Pam Pam, I think if you study the evolution of community governance at Antioch, you will find it has been subject to many changes over the years, but has always been much more an accommodation than a contract. The Origin of AdCil goes back to the 1930's, initially it did not include students, eventually it did. Elections to AdCil with a formal vote after a campaign were tacked on later. The original form was much more like a Quaker Meeting for Business than a meeting with Robert's Rules of Order and formal votes. The structure then again changed as accommodation of the non-YSO colleges became necessary. We've passed along as legacy many of our beliefs about how this all worked -- and each generation of us tend to believe that what we had or experienced was what it always was like, but in fact we never had Legal community governance -- we had an elaborate, and constantly elaborating consultative process. What governs is state law regarding the governance of Corporations, For Profit and Non-Profit, and Antioch is incorporated under the Laws of Ohio. In all states the governance of institutions that hold material assets is with the Board of Directors or the Board of Trustees. Board members can set up any number of arrangements as to how they exercise their governing responsibilities -- create an AdCil for instance, (or abolish an AdCil), but they can't give up the fact that under the laws of the state, they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect the assets of the institution they govern. It is non-profit corporate law that governs here -- both the legislation on the books, and the case law established in the Ohio Courts over the years. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 16:16:49 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 16:16:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another "pet theory" In-Reply-To: <005901c7e0e8$dad846f0$9088d4d0$@net> Message-ID: >Current "urban myth" speculation about the interests of "developers" in "stealing" the Antioch College real estate is typical. Actually, I think we've seen some evidence that this might not just be conspiracy theory. In any event, let's get the financial records and minutes of the Trustees' decisions for the last decade out in the open and see what's what. Nothing like data to dispel misconceptions. >If the whole UBoT were to follow up the campus closure with their own resignations, I doubt if we would be better off in the long run. Maybe, maybe not. I doubt that the College would be any worse off. What the heck, let's try it and see. The essence of the scientific method is experimentation. >Would people willing to step up and be replacements be any more capable or committed to traditional undergraduate liberal education? Are there altruistic visionary leaders willing to work for a dollar a year out there? This is a really important question, and I think we all need to be brainstorming about who would make good replacement Trustees in the event we can pry the College loose from the University. I'm asking everyone I know for suggestions and ideas. In fact, you've inspired me to start a thread in the "Vision" section on this topic. >For many Antiochians, the kind of adversarial posturing favored by perpetually disenfranchised "underdogs" seems to be a preferred mode of dealing with a crisis. Yeah. But don't underestimate those of us with a track record of stepping into broken or dysfunctional scenarios and turning them around. I'm betting we'll do it. We have a lower profile, but we get things done. John Hevelin '68 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 16:28:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 16:28:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] blaming the faculty In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <692922b5e2ba451559af3bedabad4b89@www.antiochians.org> >Board members . . . can't give up the fact that under the laws of the state, they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect the assets of the institution they govern. I think the question many of us have is, Have the Trustees in fact properly exercised their fiduciary responsibilities? If the assets of the College have not been properly managed, then perhaps the assets should be placed in more competent hands. And if the University finances have been managed to create the necessity of "cashing in" the College's assets, that to me (non-lawyer that I am) would constitute malfeasance. I'm hoping that the injunction requested by the faculty would give us time to shed some light on these issues. John Hevelin '68 From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 17 16:48:13 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 17 16:48:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2007 11:35:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: The faculty lawsuit does not ask for damages, it asks for injunctive relief and saying that is why they are not going to release their financials implies directly that evidence of mismanagement will reasonably be inferred by a judge and jury. I know this is a standard reaction to a lawsuit but it just proves they are reactining like a typical corporation rather than one inspired by a mission. Well, in order to get to a Jury Trial, (about the truth of facts and inferences based on such facts,) there are many hoops to jump through, and one of those will be standing. I doubt if Faculty and Staff have any standing at all except for torts or damages to them collectively and individually as a particular class of individuals impacted by the BoT decision. Can you find in Ohio Case Law any example where an organization or business that has essentially declared bankruptcy has been ordered by a court to continue operations for the welfare of anyone? Can you find anything in the Ohio Codes of Legislative Law that says this? -- no. Ohio Law as with other state's laws, understands Boards of Directors or Trustees as having a profound fiduciary responsibility to protect property assets of the corporations, for profit and non-profit, for which they are responsible -- and these laws thus empower such Boards to take actions to that end. We have large arguments in American Political History about what is called "American Exceptionalism" -- and how ideas stemming from such a belief frequently impact how we think about US actions and policy vis a vis the rest of the world. Perhaps there is an equally troublesome belief in something called Antioch Exceptionalism, that leads to beliefs that somehow we have a mission that is outside normal non-profit corporate law. Yes -- the college does have a precious mission -- but among other things, it does not overturn the laws of Ohio or the laws of gravity. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From marklp2 at comcast.net Fri Aug 17 16:50:48 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Fri Aug 17 16:50:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] blaming the faculty In-Reply-To: <692922b5e2ba451559af3bedabad4b89@www.antiochians.org> References: <692922b5e2ba451559af3bedabad4b89@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <006b01c7e110$4ab34f20$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Wilson College case is interesting in that College did not stand pat and developed new programs to reach new markets. I hope that is a given with everyone. Mark P. '71 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com) Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 1:29 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] blaming the faculty >Board members . . . can't give up the fact that under the laws of the state, they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect the assets of the institution they govern. I think the question many of us have is, Have the Trustees in fact properly exercised their fiduciary responsibilities? If the assets of the College have not been properly managed, then perhaps the assets should be placed in more competent hands. And if the University finances have been managed to create the necessity of "cashing in" the College's assets, that to me (non-lawyer that I am) would constitute malfeasance. I'm hoping that the injunction requested by the faculty would give us time to shed some light on these issues. John Hevelin '68 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.4/935 - Release Date: 8/3/2007 5:46 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 16:56:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 16:57:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: <9e4e4997ea95f36f264a25d614535424@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <7bd11cfb7190c285709881e25f15f191@antiochians.org> >Sugar. Then stick. I'm with you there. It's just that AB has been parent-childed to death by AU, so the alumni may believe that raising thunder from the mount is premature and would paint them into a corner (quibbling, petulant child). The AB isn't setting the agenda -- they can't force a BOT meeting or, as guests, set terms. And earth-shattering statements stand out when they're made by people who aren't always releasing them. Otherwise it's humorous and akin to announcing the apocalypse every 15 minutes. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 17:08:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 17:08:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: <7bd11cfb7190c285709881e25f15f191@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <2113c075e4b953c7485e41b24f1c2657@antiochians.org> >>Sugar. Then stick. >I'm with you there. It's just that AB has been parent-childed to death by AU, so the alumni may believe that raising thunder from the mount is premature and would paint them into a corner (quibbling, petulant child). The AB isn't setting the agenda -- they can't force a BOT meeting or, as guests, set terms. And earth-shattering statements stand out when they're made by people who aren't always releasing them. Otherwise it's humorous and akin to announcing the apocalypse every 15 minutes. I understand. Which is why the stick must be merciless and unrelenting. From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 17 17:13:12 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 17 17:13:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another "pet theory" Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2007 11:10:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time, eayres@comcast.net writes: Current "urban myth" speculation about the interests of "developers" in "stealing" the Antioch College real estate is typical. If the whole UBoT were to follow up the campus closure with their own resignations, I doubt if we would be better off in the long run. Would people willing to step up and be replacements be any more capable or committed to traditional undergraduate liberal education? Are there altruistic visionary leaders willing to work for a dollar a year out there? For many Antiochians, the kind of adversarial posturing favored by perpetually disenfranchised "underdogs" seems to be a preferred mode of dealing with a crisis. Frankly, in my experience the likelihood of failure if that strategy is adopted is extremely high. E. Daniel Ayres '66 Given the current crash of the Real Estate Market, something tells me that an interest in some fancy development in an odd corner of the Miami Valley may not be exactly the direction in which Capital Investment is likely to run over the next few years. If the Urban Village idea is ever to "take off" the healthy live and running college as an attraction will need to be in place. But I would add something else -- what you call -- adversarial posturing favored by perpetually disenfranchised "underdogs" can, if properly directed, be healthy dissatisfaction with aspects of the contemporary culture sufficient to unleash great creative instincts that have an impact on the underlying alienating forces. So how do you move from warfare to future vision? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 17:27:29 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 17:27:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: <1d1565ccacca58a2c65f29e61f0b44e0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4dad36a2051d6810af2d5e796834f0fc@antiochians.org> >Um, thats it? Thats the response to a stonewalling bunch of arseholes that are hijacking the heritage of Antioch to further ridiculous corporate babble about the future of education? > >I want to hear from the Legal Committee. Where is the research on Alumni Standing to seek injunctive relief. These people are atrocious bastards who have no interest in the open process of transition or reformation. The faculty lawsuit does not ask for damages, it asks for injunctive relief and saying that is why they are not going to release their financials implies directly that evidence of mismanagement will reasonably be inferred by a judge and jury. I know this is a standard reaction to a lawsuit but it just proves they are reactining like a typical corporation rather than one inspired by a mission. > >AB Executive Committee, your language is inappropriate and inadequate to AUBoT and the Chancellor's office. You can be civil and you can be stern at the same time. > >Travis Travis, we are meeting with the UBOT next week to present our proposal to have them reverse their decision to close the college and allow us to govern Antioch College. Everything we're doing--and I mean everything--has been with the advice of the Legal Committee. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 17:43:31 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 17:43:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: <0512b18937709c692be41e4c073773dc@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: to quote gollum, on the BOT "nasty, tricksy, false!" From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 18:41:10 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jal2121 (jah@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 18:41:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: <357eb7c2371fa44057ff2683d3a25f83@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <3cef5c6bc9844549772dab3ed8f6de42@antiochians.org> Here are a some questions all sort of geared around trying to understand the consequences of the lawsuit. 1. How long is the lawsuit expected to take to conclude? What are the chances that either side would appeal? Can the faculty afford to appeal? 2. How can the "visioning" process, planned for the August BoT meeting, effectively proceed without resolving the lawsuit? 3. Won't the BoT be likely to avoid all possible negotiation/communication outside of a courtroom until the lawsuit is resolved? 4. Aside from donating to the legal fund, why would any rational investor donate to the annual or revival funds while a lawsuit is ensuing? 5. Can students be recruited for next year before the lawsuit has been resolved? 6. If the faculty lose, would that lock the fate and assets of the College much more securely in the hands of the BoT? 7. Are the faculty and AB working together or are they just pretending to by supporting each other after taking action? Specifically, did the AB decide that the negotiation process was doomed to fail short of legal action? How was the decision to pursue legal action made? How did you (faculty) decide the date that you would announce your decision to the public? One major irony of legal action for me is that, while the lawsuit expressly seeks to keep Antioch open, it seems that a lot of efforts, like recruiting students or negotiating a new governance arrangement for example, must now be put on hold until the suit has been resolved. Thanks, Jonah From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 18:42:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jal2121 (jah@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 18:42:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: <357eb7c2371fa44057ff2683d3a25f83@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <5717094db89d48ca7468d7013ac627a2@antiochians.org> Here are a some questions all sort of geared around trying to understand the consequences of the lawsuit. 1. How long is the lawsuit expected to take to conclude? What are the chances that either side would appeal? Can the faculty afford to appeal? 2. How can the "visioning" process, planned for the August BoT meeting, effectively proceed without resolving the lawsuit? 3. Won't the BoT be likely to avoid all possible negotiation/communication outside of a courtroom until the lawsuit is resolved? 4. Aside from donating to the legal fund, why would any rational investor donate to the annual or revival funds while a lawsuit is ensuing? 5. Can students be recruited for next year before the lawsuit has been resolved? 6. If the faculty lose, would that lock the fate and assets of the College much more securely in the hands of the BoT? 7. Are the faculty and AB working together or are they just pretending to by supporting each other after taking action? Specifically, did the AB decide that the negotiation process was doomed to fail short of legal action? How was the decision to pursue legal action made? How did you (faculty) decide the date that you would announce your decision to the public? One major irony of legal action for me is that, while the lawsuit expressly seeks to keep Antioch open, it seems that a lot of efforts, like recruiting students or negotiating a new governance arrangement for example, must now be put on hold until the suit has been resolved. Thanks, Jonah From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 17 18:46:19 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 17 18:42:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] creating new programs Message-ID: Mark Pomeranz said: Wilson College case is interesting in that College did not stand pat and developed new programs to reach new markets. I hope that is a given with everyone. Mark P. '71 I haven't heard anything to the contrary. But the creation of new programs takes money, of course.... And I also think it can only be done by the faculty and administration, in dialogue with students, alumni and market trends. We can all brainstorm, make suggestions, offer help of whatever kind, offer our services as adjunct faculty, set up co-ops, and so forth, but it must not be imposed from without. We've already seen how difficult that can be. Pam Olsen ('68) From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 21:31:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 21:55:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Webinar Malcontents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5b8cb8113498ca184719b38533007b79@www.antiochians.org> >to quote gollum, on the BOT > >"nasty, tricksy, false!" To quote gollum (like the Bot) "itssss miness; the Antiochs is mines".... oh shit I'm in a goddamn vat of fire ... ouch... From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 17 21:39:55 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 17 21:57:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumniefforts? Message-ID: Hi Steve -- you know we know each other. Randall Hall, Fall of 1957. Anyhow, good to argue and discuss with you again. In a message dated 8/17/2007 7:01:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, wasb@albany.edu writes: Several brief responses to Sistersara: - The lawsuit has preempted alumni efforts only if the alumni want that to happen. Keeping pressure on the BoT by means other than (in addition to) the litigation is very important. One does not want the BofT to believe that "it is all up to the lawyers." If the Alumni Board really wants to have leverage, they have to acquire a corporate identity separate from the University. Right now they are in a situation where the University could just abolish what is for all practical purposes, an advisory committee within its own structure. About two months ago I suggested they incorporate as a Foundation, (not a 501(c)3) with a dedicated mission of reopening Antioch College as a classic Liberal Arts institution, re-visioned for the 21st century. But the key to this is the kind of independence that will probably not please the BoT, but at the same time will give Alumni some leverage. My idea did not get much approval here, because I am not an all or nothing thinker. I can see closing the college for a few years and doing the kind of research and planning that success would require. Afterall, the college has not in its present incarnation been very successful selling the product, and for a tuition dependent institution, selling the product is critical. Sometimes when you have a failed product you have to take it off the market -- do hard nosed research, reformulate the product, and reintroduce. But to do that with Alumni input, the Alumni Board has to create the proper platform. So yes -- in addition to litigation there are many means open to us -- those US who hold earned Antioch Degrees -- but there has to be a strategy other than hope that the BoT will listen. Hope is not a plan, nor is loud noises about the need for love, good will, alma mater love and all the rest. The best of all possible worlds would be collaboration between an independent Alumni Board (refashioned as a Foundation) with real assets in the bank and able to be put on the negotiating table, and a BoT that might have a somewhat different vision, but also is pressured to re-open. In the meantime, someone needs to be actively demanding that assets be preserved, and an Alumni Foundation might just achieve that. Antioch's financial failure dates way way back -- and we need to understand two things about that. First of all, Ohio has a statute of limitations that probably will not permit the use of say 20 or 30 year old financial data as part of litigation. Any litigant will probably be limited to transactions and decisions over the past 5 years. But understanding what went wrong really does mean going back and unearthing lots of the past, because decision making is influenced by culture -- and over the years Antioch adopted a cultural crisis band aid approach that never morphed into the necessary identification of core problems and long term planning. I estimate, for instance, that for the college to successfully re-open with the kind of faculty appropriate to it, there will be a need for at least 100 million in the dedicated Endowment to back about 60% of necessary faculty wages and benefits. (I assume tuition could carry the other 40%). I think Academic Tenure is on the way out in many institutions -- but Academics would have the same protections if they thought in terms of fairly long term contracts with clear criteria for evaluation and renewal. Guaranteed Lifetime Employment in all fields is on the way out as our economic and social system changes -- but those who have a huge investment in a personal tool set (advanced professional degrees), do need a system of job protection and income/security protection. This is particularly important for persons who are perhaps over 40, and newly have to look at the job market. The point is to provide a cushion and a system for moving around as appropriate. I also want to find better means for Scholars to speak up and out on public policy matters based on their expertise -- I want to stop the business of Corporations, Big Oil, for instance, buying up the climate scholars so as to argue against things like the Global warming data, in otherwords I want to update what freedom of inquiry and advocacy is about, and how important it is culturally. Tenure is indirect -- we need to find a direct way to accomplish this. I know lots of Professors who in one way or another sold out to the better bidders from the Corporate World who would help fund this or that institute. All of us who have been around the Academic world over the past 30 years know about all this. So I would hope Antioch issues do not devolve into just an argument about Tenure. I have a friend from grad school days, a biologist, who spent 25 years modifying yeasts. Her idea was a yeast that would eat organic matter of all sorts -- cardboard, ag waste, garbage, etc., and turn it into some sort of fuel that would power generators or run cars. Post doc she went through 5 Universities without any rank, hauling her yeasts around with her. Big Oil didn't want her funded, so she never got much institutional support, just a temp teaching slot, and a lab corner. But she quietly took out patents on her yeasts, and today she is a multi-millionaire. She is also a very simple Quakerly type, who still drives a beat up car, and could care less about luxury. Any of those five Universities would die today for having provided significant institutional support, and thus a share of ownership in her patents. But they failed the argument about advocacy against the demands of Big Oil -- so why should she share? That is the vast American Academic Environment in which Little Antioch has to conduct its debate. - As the mention of the possibility of settlement with the faculty as to termination indicates, lawsuits settle. They settle because, in part, the information provided through discovery --information which, in this case, the BofT has been refusing to reveal-- is sufficiently embarrassing to the defendant that it is thought best to settle rather than take the risk of trial It could go either way -- depending on what would be admitted as evidence. Personally, I do think that the way the college has been treated over the years is somewhat like a corporate raid or disembowelment of Mama Antioch. But why didn't anyone other than Katy and the AIF crew set up any defenses? I tend to think closing has been an option for years, and because of that there will be little evidence on the table that will embarrass the BoT. They may not be popular, but they will be within the law. - As your comments suggest, the difficulty with this lawsuit might be constructing a remedy if the judge decides for the plaintiffs. I would think that a victory on the merits for the plaintiffs would be sufficiently embarrassing to the BofT (although there is the question: does ANYTHING embarrass them?) might lead to a settlement on the matter of remedy, which could go to reopening the College and on what basis. In short, even if (and as not a lawyer, and certainly not one practicing in Ohio) a judge is unlikely to "force" the reopening, it might nonetheless result from the lawsuit. I don't think the judge will decide for the Plaintiffs. About six weeks ago I did discuss much of this situation with a local political friend who is a lawyer, a litigator, and who had never heard of Antioch really, but who has been involved in this sort of litigation. I got some answers to my questions -- some of which are reflected in my sense that injunctive relief may not be easy, if not impossible to obtain, and that Ohio Appeals courts generally don't reverse district judges on such a matter. If someone had sued back in the 70's just after the strike, there would be massive standing for the destruction of the institution, with lots of folk with standing. But too many people have thwarted efforts to deal with problems since then to make a decent argument. No one with any connection or familiarity with the college "Just Realized" that there were huge problems. Steve Wasby '59 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 22:10:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 22:10:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: <3cef5c6bc9844549772dab3ed8f6de42@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Here are a some questions all sort of geared around trying to understand the consequences of the lawsuit. > >1. How long is the lawsuit expected to take to conclude? What are the chances that either side would appeal? Can the faculty afford to appeal? > >2. How can the "visioning" process, planned for the August BoT meeting, effectively proceed without resolving the lawsuit? > >3. Won't the BoT be likely to avoid all possible negotiation/communication outside of a courtroom until the lawsuit is resolved? > >4. Aside from donating to the legal fund, why would any rational investor donate to the annual or revival funds while a lawsuit is ensuing? > >5. Can students be recruited for 2008-09 before the lawsuit has been resolved? > >6. If the faculty lose, would that lock the fate and assets of the College much more securely in the hands of the BoT? > >7. Are the faculty and AB working together or are they just pretending to by supporting each other after taking action? Specifically, did the AB decide that the negotiation process was doomed to fail short of legal action? How was the decision to pursue legal action made? How did you (faculty) decide the date that you would announce your decision to the public? > >7a. Relatedly, why did you choose to announce your lawsuit before the Webinar and the August BoT meeting? Why not wait for the other side to reveal more of their cards? > >One major irony of legal action for me is that, while the lawsuit expressly seeks to keep Antioch open, it seems that a lot of efforts, like recruiting students or negotiating a new governance arrangement for example, must now be put on hold until the suit has been resolved. > >Thanks, >Jonah [img]http://www.therationalradical.com/images03/headupass.gif[/img] 1) The last one of a similiar nature lasted less than 100 days. 2) There was no visioning process planned for the August meeting Jonah. the www.theantiochpapers.org documents specifically state that the BoT isnt planning on "visioning" anything until after the doors are closed. The August meeting was part of a pacification process. like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj5K1mWjcyY 3) They will have to negotitate eventually as the heat is on and is only going to get turned up. 4) Many will so that the college can move forward as soon as an injunction is leveled. 5) See #1 6) No. The BoT still need the Alumni to rebuild. They also wont look good in terms of attracting donors if they just got sued. 7) Jonah... We know what cards they have. The Webinar would have revealed nothing truthful. RTFM the docs Nothing needs to be put on hold. The lawsuit will be quick. Get a plexionomy. From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 17 22:28:23 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 17 22:28:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] blaming the faculty Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2007 3:51:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, marklp2@comcast.net writes: If the assets of the College have not been properly managed, then perhaps the assets should be placed in more competent hands. And if the University finances have been managed to create the necessity of "cashing in" the College's assets, that to me (non-lawyer that I am) would constitute malfeasance. I'm hoping that the injunction requested by the faculty would give us time to shed some light on these issues. John Hevelin '68 Well, so who would have standing to ask that question in court? I think the Village would, and I think the Alumni if properly and independently constituted would, but the Faculty, not really. Faculty Senate with the power to vote on conferring degrees was eliminated back in 1967 -- and with that their real power. That turned the Faculty into not much more than a discussion forum. Now I hold a 1962 Degree, voted on by AdCil, the Faculty Senate and the Board of Trustees. I feel like making a huge reproduction of it and using lazar lights pointing something at the area over the Bridge in Mpls that collapsed, and making plain it was not always so slap dash as it became later. Antiochian, Proud of Earned Degree. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 22:37:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 22:37:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Woops we ran out of munny Message-ID: There isn't no liberrys where I lives. Theys was jest shut down abert 3 monts ago. The area leeders sed beck in Janerary they dint have nuff munny forim and so the liberys haff to shuts doun. Now they is shut dern. Its cuzz therz not enuff munny. Jane Slater Jackson County, OR From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 17 23:21:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Fri Aug 17 23:21:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Gerry: Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet you $100 bucks that the lawsuit takes more than 100 days. Whaddaya say? Deb From gerrybello at hotmail.com Fri Aug 17 23:42:29 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Fri Aug 17 23:42:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumniefforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 100 days to injunction (including a TRO) or conclusion? If the former its on like donkey kong. same deal as Ted. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted >alumniefforts >Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:21:54 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc7-f21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, >17 Aug 2007 20:21:52 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D5B6117414;Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:21:51 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6732A6117405for >; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:21:49 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IMEss-0004zV-Pcfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:21:54 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAUDdZ5dEorimThLe1v2Hv7cC30ve+YmjPYfEvWnO8bxg/zLnlhTIEXdnhiEsRjC4v0XL3tSiOeXkg== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2007 03:21:52.0194 (UTC) >FILETIME=[EBB6E220:01C7E146] > >Hey Gerry: > >Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet you $100 bucks that the >lawsuit takes more than 100 days. Whaddaya say? > >Deb > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 18 00:13:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sat Aug 18 00:13:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1e74affac6688f712a4677f85d40ce1c@antiochians.org> Gerry, according to your answer to Jonah's question, "The last one of a similar nature took less than 100 days." Jonah's question referred to a lawsuit. Are you not referring to a lawsuit...rather to an injunction? If so, your answer is incorrect. If you are, the bet's on. Please clarify. Thanks. Deb >100 days to injunction (including a TRO) or conclusion? > >If the former its on like donkey kong. same deal as Ted. > > > > >"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about >that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the >stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the >prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We >carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." >----Durruti > > > > > >>From: "hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)" >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted >>alumniefforts >>Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:21:54 -0500 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >>bay0-mc7-f21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, >>17 Aug 2007 20:21:52 -0700 >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >>(Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D5B6117414;Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:21:51 -0400 (EDT) >>Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >>w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6732A6117405for >>; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:21:49 -0400 (EDT) >>Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >>with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >>)id 1IMEss-0004zV-Pcfor >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:21:54 -0500 >>X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >>X-Message-Info: >>m0MZ22IVDAUDdZ5dEorimThLe1v2Hv7cC30ve+YmjPYfEvWnO8bxg/zLnlhTIEXdnhiEsRjC4v0XL3tSiOeXkg== >>X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >>X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >>any abuse report >>X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >>X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >>X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >>X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >>X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >>Precedence: list >>List-Id: Alumni Chat List >>List-Unsubscribe: >>, >>List-Archive: >>List-Post: >>List-Help: >>List-Subscribe: >>, >>Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >>Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2007 03:21:52.0194 (UTC) >>FILETIME=[EBB6E220:01C7E146] >> >>Hey Gerry: >> >>Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet you $100 bucks that the >>lawsuit takes more than 100 days. Whaddaya say? >> >>Deb >_________________________________________________________________ >Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! >http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From gerrybello at hotmail.com Sat Aug 18 00:18:21 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Sat Aug 18 00:18:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumniefforts In-Reply-To: <1e74affac6688f712a4677f85d40ce1c@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Deb, in the Zehner v Alexander case the judge granted an injunction at 100 days. The injunction required that the college could only be closed with his approval. At that point the suit continued but was ultimately settled some months later to the satisfaction of the plaintifss. the offending board members resigned. so... essentially the injunction is the suit. 100 days to temporary injunction, possible wrangling afterworrds. take it or leave it ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted >alumniefforts >Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:13:39 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc6-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, 17 >Aug 2007 21:13:38 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC8C6117886;Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:13:37 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFBA6117866for >; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:13:34 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IMFgx-0007Rp-TVfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:13:39 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAXgmXWS3Cv4YADxTcCyK4BuYGSk1bXEg0NTG5WqbfD+N68mu5idDEOFAnlKuCr0OWas0Xbak/E5zQ== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2007 04:13:38.0600 (UTC) >FILETIME=[2746D280:01C7E14E] > >Gerry, according to your answer to Jonah's question, "The last one of a >similar nature took less than 100 days." Jonah's question referred to a >lawsuit. Are you not referring to a lawsuit...rather to an injunction? If >so, your answer is incorrect. If you are, the bet's on. Please clarify. > >Thanks. > >Deb > > > >100 days to injunction (including a TRO) or conclusion? > > > >If the former its on like donkey kong. same deal as Ted. > > > > > > > > > >"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt >about > >that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves >the > >stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the > >prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We > >carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this >minute." > >----Durruti > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: "hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)" > > >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List > >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted > >>alumniefforts > >>Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:21:54 -0500 > >>MIME-Version: 1.0 > >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by > >>bay0-mc7-f21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); >Fri, > >>17 Aug 2007 20:21:52 -0700 > >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu > >>(Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D5B6117414;Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:21:51 -0400 >(EDT) > >>Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by > >>w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6732A6117405for > >>; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:21:49 -0400 (EDT) > >>Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by >thunder.svaha.org > >>with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from > >>)id 1IMEss-0004zV-Pcfor > >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:21:54 -0500 > >>X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w > >>X-Message-Info: > >>m0MZ22IVDAUDdZ5dEorimThLe1v2Hv7cC30ve+YmjPYfEvWnO8bxg/zLnlhTIEXdnhiEsRjC4v0XL3tSiOeXkg== > >>X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] > >>X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with > >>any abuse report > >>X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org > >>X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu > >>X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] > >>X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org > >>X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: > >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > >>Precedence: list > >>List-Id: Alumni Chat List > >>List-Unsubscribe: > >>, > >>List-Archive: > >>List-Post: > >>List-Help: > >>List-Subscribe: > >>, > >>Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu > >>Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu > >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2007 03:21:52.0194 (UTC) > >>FILETIME=[EBB6E220:01C7E146] > >> > >>Hey Gerry: > >> > >>Put your money where your mouth is. I'll bet you $100 bucks that the > >>lawsuit takes more than 100 days. Whaddaya say? > >> > >>Deb > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! > >http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 18 00:33:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Sat Aug 18 00:33:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <183aeb0211ae6fd9ac272b6f6fd1cec3@antiochians.org> Gerry: I guess I didn't understand your ambiguous answer to Jonah's very clear question. The lawsuit was not settled in less than 100 days as you initally stated. Rather the judge granted an injunction at 100 days. I'll also note that 100 days is not "less than 100 days," as you said. I think facts matter. I know they matter in court. So, I'll make a bet with you another time when you're not equivocating. Best regards, Deb From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 18 00:34:45 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sat Aug 18 00:34:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >3) They will have to negotitate eventually as the heat is on and is only going to get turned up. > >6) No. The BoT still need the Alumni to rebuild. They also wont look good in terms of attracting donors if they just got sued. >6) No. The BoT still need the Alumni to rebuild. They also wont look good in terms of attracting donors if they just got sued. Every time Art Zucker completes one of his stern lectures, he asks for "money, and lots of it." Which leads me to believe that the donors he can count upon for Antioch 2012 fit on the finger of one hand. And cannot provide the money required. I have thought that they would cannibalize the campus and get the money that way, but the 2012 brain trust here on the boards seems to think the greater Dayton area is valued along the lines of central Detroit. The Antioch Papers state the plan was to find a developer. Then, if no developer was found, to close the college. Since they closed the college, we can assume was no re-development interest before June 12 (reports of surveyors on campus notwithstanding). Which gives the greater mass of Alumni something more of a say in the college's future. I hope at the meetings Sunday there alumni will take the opportunity to discuss the shape of that future with their elected representatives. Alan From sercle at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 18 10:08:55 2007 From: sercle at sbcglobal.net (Barrie Grenell) Date: Sat Aug 18 10:08:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preemptedalumniefforts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002001c7e1a1$510e1490$4301a8c0@GRENELL> Do you suppose yeast lady might be interested in growing a department/program at Antioch? Barrie Dallas Grenell '65 _________________ Barrie Grenell QBA (415) 826-2409 sercle@sbcglobal.net -----Original Message----- From: Sistersara@aol.com [mailto:Sistersara@aol.com] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 6:40 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preemptedalumniefforts? Hi Steve -- you know we know each other. Randall Hall, Fall of 1957. Anyhow, good to argue and discuss with you again. In a message dated 8/17/2007 7:01:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, wasb@albany.edu writes: Several brief responses to Sistersara: - The lawsuit has preempted alumni efforts only if the alumni want that to happen. Keeping pressure on the BoT by means other than (in addition to) the litigation is very important. One does not want the BofT to believe that "it is all up to the lawyers." If the Alumni Board really wants to have leverage, they have to acquire a corporate identity separate from the University. Right now they are in a situation where the University could just abolish what is for all practical purposes, an advisory committee within its own structure. About two months ago I suggested they incorporate as a Foundation, (not a 501(c)3) with a dedicated mission of reopening Antioch College as a classic Liberal Arts institution, re-visioned for the 21st century. But the key to this is the kind of independence that will probably not please the BoT, but at the same time will give Alumni some leverage. My idea did not get much approval here, because I am not an all or nothing thinker. I can see closing the college for a few years and doing the kind of research and planning that success would require. Afterall, the college has not in its present incarnation been very successful selling the product, and for a tuition dependent institution, selling the product is critical. Sometimes when you have a failed product you have to take it off the market -- do hard nosed research, reformulate the product, and reintroduce. But to do that with Alumni input, the Alumni Board has to create the proper platform. So yes -- in addition to litigation there are many means open to us -- those US who hold earned Antioch Degrees -- but there has to be a strategy other than hope that the BoT will listen. Hope is not a plan, nor is loud noises about the need for love, good will, alma mater love and all the rest. The best of all possible worlds would be collaboration between an independent Alumni Board (refashioned as a Foundation) with real assets in the bank and able to be put on the negotiating table, and a BoT that might have a somewhat different vision, but also is pressured to re-open. In the meantime, someone needs to be actively demanding that assets be preserved, and an Alumni Foundation might just achieve that. Antioch's financial failure dates way way back -- and we need to understand two things about that. First of all, Ohio has a statute of limitations that probably will not permit the use of say 20 or 30 year old financial data as part of litigation. Any litigant will probably be limited to transactions and decisions over the past 5 years. But understanding what went wrong really does mean going back and unearthing lots of the past, because decision making is influenced by culture -- and over the years Antioch adopted a cultural crisis band aid approach that never morphed into the necessary identification of core problems and long term planning. I estimate, for instance, that for the college to successfully re-open with the kind of faculty appropriate to it, there will be a need for at least 100 million in the dedicated Endowment to back about 60% of necessary faculty wages and benefits. (I assume tuition could carry the other 40%). I think Academic Tenure is on the way out in many institutions -- but Academics would have the same protections if they thought in terms of fairly long term contracts with clear criteria for evaluation and renewal. Guaranteed Lifetime Employment in all fields is on the way out as our economic and social system changes -- but those who have a huge investment in a personal tool set (advanced professional degrees), do need a system of job protection and income/security protection. This is particularly important for persons who are perhaps over 40, and newly have to look at the job market. The point is to provide a cushion and a system for moving around as appropriate. I also want to find better means for Scholars to speak up and out on public policy matters based on their expertise -- I want to stop the business of Corporations, Big Oil, for instance, buying up the climate scholars so as to argue against things like the Global warming data, in otherwords I want to update what freedom of inquiry and advocacy is about, and how important it is culturally. Tenure is indirect -- we need to find a direct way to accomplish this. I know lots of Professors who in one way or another sold out to the better bidders from the Corporate World who would help fund this or that institute. All of us who have been around the Academic world over the past 30 years know about all this. So I would hope Antioch issues do not devolve into just an argument about Tenure. I have a friend from grad school days, a biologist, who spent 25 years modifying yeasts. Her idea was a yeast that would eat organic matter of all sorts -- cardboard, ag waste, garbage, etc., and turn it into some sort of fuel that would power generators or run cars. Post doc she went through 5 Universities without any rank, hauling her yeasts around with her. Big Oil didn't want her funded, so she never got much institutional support, just a temp teaching slot, and a lab corner. But she quietly took out patents on her yeasts, and today she is a multi-millionaire. She is also a very simple Quakerly type, who still drives a beat up car, and could care less about luxury. Any of those five Universities would die today for having provided significant institutional support, and thus a share of ownership in her patents. But they failed the argument about advocacy against the demands of Big Oil -- so why should she share? That is the vast American Academic Environment in which Little Antioch has to conduct its debate. - As the mention of the possibility of settlement with the faculty as to termination indicates, lawsuits settle. They settle because, in part, the information provided through discovery --information which, in this case, the BofT has been refusing to reveal-- is sufficiently embarrassing to the defendant that it is thought best to settle rather than take the risk of trial It could go either way -- depending on what would be admitted as evidence. Personally, I do think that the way the college has been treated over the years is somewhat like a corporate raid or disembowelment of Mama Antioch. But why didn't anyone other than Katy and the AIF crew set up any defenses? I tend to think closing has been an option for years, and because of that there will be little evidence on the table that will embarrass the BoT. They may not be popular, but they will be within the law. - As your comments suggest, the difficulty with this lawsuit might be constructing a remedy if the judge decides for the plaintiffs. I would think that a victory on the merits for the plaintiffs would be sufficiently embarrassing to the BofT (although there is the question: does ANYTHING embarrass them?) might lead to a settlement on the matter of remedy, which could go to reopening the College and on what basis. In short, even if (and as not a lawyer, and certainly not one practicing in Ohio) a judge is unlikely to "force" the reopening, it might nonetheless result from the lawsuit. I don't think the judge will decide for the Plaintiffs. About six weeks ago I did discuss much of this situation with a local political friend who is a lawyer, a litigator, and who had never heard of Antioch really, but who has been involved in this sort of litigation. I got some answers to my questions -- some of which are reflected in my sense that injunctive relief may not be easy, if not impossible to obtain, and that Ohio Appeals courts generally don't reverse district judges on such a matter. If someone had sued back in the 70's just after the strike, there would be massive standing for the destruction of the institution, with lots of folk with standing. But too many people have thwarted efforts to deal with problems since then to make a decent argument. No one with any connection or familiarity with the college "Just Realized" that there were huge problems. Steve Wasby '59 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 18 11:13:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jal2121 (jah@hotmail.com)) Date: Sat Aug 18 11:13:38 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts In-Reply-To: <002001c7e1a1$510e1490$4301a8c0@GRENELL> Message-ID: <2ab074d690faee6f3a206f654b4c1b00@www.antiochians.org> Gerry, I loved your cartoon. Here's one for you: http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/121305/meet-you-at-the-intersection.gif From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 18 13:26:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Sat Aug 18 13:26:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] August 23rd is coming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So who here will be attending this "open meeting"? http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/docs/FromTheBoardofTrustees.pdf I'm hoping that people from this website will bring out some of the awesome information that has been discovered, and pose penetrating questions for all to hear, as the press will be reporting the proceedings. A Holiday Inn in Cinncinnatti? Who would have thunk things could sink this low? Jane Slater Ashland, OR Class of '80 From duffy at antioch-college.edu Sat Aug 18 13:31:10 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Sat Aug 18 13:39:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] August 23rd is coming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alumni Chat List on Saturday, August 18, 2007 at 1:26 PM -0500 wrote: >http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/docs/FromTheBoardofTrustees.pdf This meeting will be at the Holiday Inn near by Cincinnati Airport which actually means northern Kentucky. Probably the venue is near an airport so folks can easily fly in and out.... and probably just far enough from YS to make it a little more calm..kinda like moving a controversial trial to a different venue.......I am sure this meeting will be trying for us all. The University has booked a large room there that holds 325 people. Hope everyone fits... I imagine there will be people coming from many places. Have heard that lots of Chicagoantiochians are coming, YS may be chartering a bus...other folks will go in cars. The morning will be a town hall metting with folks allowed 5 minutes each. The afternoon will have 25 stakeholders to talk about re-birthing the college or whatever term you think might apply. The stakeholders are supposed to be representative of alumni. faculty, staff and area residents. There may be a faciltator.... Wish there will some big benevolent donors in the wings...but until that time it is just waiting for enough small donors with goodwill to help us. We collectively are so worth fighting for. Duffy From theodora at imbris.com Sat Aug 18 15:02:31 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Sat Aug 18 14:58:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] what went wrong? Message-ID: Steve Wasby said: " But understanding what went wrong really does mean going back and unearthing lots of the past, because decision making is influenced by culture -- and over the years Antioch adopted a cultural crisis band aid approach that never morphed into the necessary identification of core problems and long term planning. I estimate, for instance, that for the college to successfully re-open with the kind of faculty appropriate to it, there will be a need for at least 100 million in the dedicated Endowment to back about 60% of necessary faculty wages and benefits. (I assume tuition could carry the other 40%)." Steve, Of course, I know nothing about Antioch's finances, but even in the 60s we used to joke that Antioch was always on the edge financially because grads were all out winning victories for humanity instead of getting rich. Unfortunately, it's not funny. I suspect a lot of alumni (myself included) have just assumed Antioch would find a way, and haven't done as much as we might. Personally, thanks to Managed Care (I'm a health care provider in private practice--Managed Care devastated our income) and a (past tense) serious illness, I live on the edge financially. But even I could commit to $20 or $25 a month, deducted from my bank account every month. Call it the Latte Factor! If 15,000 alumni could do the same, that would be about $20,000,000 in four years. I assume there are some who could do more, but if almost everyone did something, it would add up. It's going to take a little from all of us, over a period of time, to build up the endowment so that Antioch never has to go through this again. As far as I know, there has NEVER been an adequate endowment. I think in the 60s they were saying that most colleges operate from 80% endowment and 20% tuition, and Antioch was just the opposite, even when the census was highest. I've written to three of my Antioch friends about this situation, and they all had heard, were sad, but didn't have any idea what was going on (nor did I), and figured, "well, they'll probably never be able to come up with the money". Many Antiochians just have too much on their plates (winning victories for humanity is VERY stressful!) to think about how to get involved or how they might help. But if we get in touch with EVERYBODY (maybe a mailing tree, if a central mailing is too much), concisely laying out what has happened, why it has happened, and what it will take to make the college strong, and show them how little bits add up, then maybe we can get the vast majority involved with a simple no hassle small and regular donation. (I realize I have a fairly simple mind, but hey...) I also suspect that there is ambivalence about Antioch in more alumni than just me. It was a great ride, but would we want our kids to go through it? The more I'm hearing, the more faith I have that it is still a great ride for most students and that adjustments can be made to give more psychological/developmental support to all of them. Art's comment about the developmental issues of adolescents brought it together for me. I mean, you put together the raging hormones of the late teens and early adulthood and the ideological developmental stage that teens go through, and you have Antioch in the 60s--and probably Antioch in every generation (they not only BELIEVE, but do so with their whole being, making it hard sometimes to get perspectivew and respect other viewpoints--or they think they should believe with their whole being, but can't decide WHAT to believe, with everything coming at them from different directions). Perhaps there is not enough dialogue with adults to temper and channel that in a way that creates less turmoil and pressure for students, or at least helps them to work through the turmoil. Yes, I'm sure it happens in all colleges. But perhaps more at Antioch because of our tradition of "hands off," freedom, and all that. For me, although we had advisors and preceptoral fellows, they were not trained to really help students with the kind of emotional turmoil we often got into. It was my third year before I really found someone who would listen and help me sort through things. Maybe it's better now with a smaller student body. In any case, I think we need to make a concerted effort to involve all the alumni we can, find out what their concerns are, and what it would take to get their support. And show them that even if they aren't rich, here's a victory for humanity that will only take a little bit of help each month. I do it for a little boy in Quatemala. I can do it for Antioch. Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sat Aug 18 22:20:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Sat Aug 18 22:20:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] what went wrong? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I suspect a lot of alumni (myself included) have just assumed Antioch would find a way, and haven't done as much as we might. Personally, thanks to Managed Care (I'm a health care provider in private practice--Managed Care devastated our income) and a (past tense) serious illness, I live on the edge financially. But even I could commit to $20 or $25 a month, deducted from my bank account every month. Call it the Latte Factor! If 15,000 alumni could do the same, that would be about $20,000,000 in four years. I assume there are some who could do more, but if almost everyone did something, it would add up. It's going to take a little from all of us, over a period of time, to build up the endowment so that Antioch never has to go through this again. I like your "Latte Factor" suggestion, Pam. It's the kind of idea I keep hoping will crop up in this Forum. >I also suspect that there is ambivalence about Antioch in more alumni than just me. It was a great ride, but would we want our kids to go through it? I have no children of my own. Antioch as it was in the 1960s would have been a perfect place for my niece, who graduated from high school this spring. After viewing the campus last autumn, she did not even apply to the College. She was accepted at several schools and will start Vassar this fall. >Art's comment about the developmental issues of adolescents brought it together for me. I mean, you put together the raging hormones of the late teens and early adulthood and the ideological developmental stage that teens go through, and you have Antioch in the 60s--and probably Antioch in every generation (they not only BELIEVE, but do so with their whole being, making it hard sometimes to get perspectivew and respect other viewpoints--or they think they should believe with their whole being, but can't decide WHAT to believe, with everything coming at them from different directions). Pam, I think we attended Antioch at the same time, although I don't have any memory of you (other div?). One of the reasons I decided to attend Antioch was because it didn't seem have a lot of the immature student stuff going on that seemed to occur at other schools -- panty raids, binge drinking, fraternity/sorority hazing, all of the hoopla surrounding sporting events, stuff that still goes on today and occasionally leads to death. I remember a friend of mine from high school who graduated a few years ahead of me and who went to Union College in Schenectady. His descriptions of the hazing inflicted on incoming students appalled me. The demonstrations at Gegner's barbershop the spring before I started Antioch in the summer of 1964 made the news in my small town in upstate New York, and my classmates had fun teasing me with remarks like, "Still going to that commie school, Hevelin?" You bet I was. Students demonstrating to end segregation seemed more adult to me than frat parties and hazing. I found most of my classmates at Antioch to be very adult and very mature. There were some exceptions, but by and large, it was a comfortable community. I have been friends with some Antiochians for over forty years. I never felt physically or emotionally threatened. It was an exciting and challenging and stimulating place to be. I grieve over the impending closure. >In any case, I think we need to make a concerted effort to involve all the alumni we can, find out what their concerns are, and what it would take to get their support. And show them that even if they aren't rich, here's a victory for humanity that will only take a little bit of help each month. I do it for a little boy in Quatemala. I can do it for Antioch. >Pam I think many alumni are waiting in the wings, waiting to see whether the College can be separated from the University or not -- they feel loyalty to the College, not the University. I don't think the Trustees care what the alumni do -- I think they've decided to close the College, period. So let's wish the faculty luck with the lawsuit, give them our support, and figure out where to go next. John Hevelin '68 From totally at svaha.com Sun Aug 19 00:54:05 2007 From: totally at svaha.com (J. Greg Williams) Date: Sun Aug 19 00:55:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DB7CDBC-3BF8-48E3-9458-7BD20D660769@svaha.com> Hey Callie, I received an electronic version of the Golden Ticket as they seemed to have problems with my address. I'll be flying in Friday night, not entirely sure where I'm staying yet. Who else? I certainly don't want to be the only one carrying a stake. -Greg On Aug 17, 2007, at 1:19 PM, ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com) wrote: > It would be nice if those who have received the royal invite would > let others know. It's strangely quiet out there on this topic. > > Callie > >>> they claim they have invited alums... anyone out there been invited? >> According to YS news, they asked the Alumni Board president to >> submit names that AU chose from... >> >> -laura > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 10:30:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 10:30:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >In a message dated 8/17/2007 3:51:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >marklp2@comcast.net writes: > >If the assets of the College >have not been properly managed, then perhaps the assets should be placed in >more competent hands. And if the University finances have been managed to >create the necessity of "cashing in" the College's assets, that to me >(non-lawyer that I am) would constitute malfeasance. I'm hoping that the >injunction requested by the faculty would give us time to shed some light on >these issues. > >John Hevelin '68 > > > >Well, so who would have standing to ask that question in court? I think the >Village would, and I think the Alumni if properly and independently >constituted would, but the Faculty, not really. Faculty Senate with the power to >vote on conferring degrees was eliminated back in 1967 -- and with that their >real power. That turned the Faculty into not much more than a discussion >forum. Now I hold a 1962 Degree, voted on by AdCil, the Faculty Senate and the >Board of Trustees. I feel like making a huge reproduction of it and using >lazar lights pointing something at the area over the Bridge in Mpls that >collapsed, and making plain it was not always so slap dash as it became later. >Antiochian, Proud of Earned Degree. > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour WTF is an earned degree? From Shel623 at aol.com Sun Aug 19 10:35:58 2007 From: Shel623 at aol.com (Shel623@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 19 10:36:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman Message-ID: As August 23 approaches I would love to hear from other parents of incoming students as to their concerns and expectations for the coming year. Shelley ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 10:43:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 10:43:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: <4dad36a2051d6810af2d5e796834f0fc@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <5c735f592f8f928b43c7cc8f43c9f548@www.antiochians.org> >Travis, we are meeting with the UBOT next week to present our proposal to have them reverse their decision to close the college and allow us to govern Antioch College. Everything we're doing--and I mean everything--has been with the advice of the Legal Committee. I do not doubt you are vetting by the LC, however there is the morale of the "movement" to consider and tepid public releases do not put fire in the belly. I admire your ability to be sanguine regarding negotiations. More stick. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 10:56:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 10:56:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <171ca644a21c6268b39ef0f661656a7e@www.antiochians.org> >In a message dated 8/17/2007 11:35:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: >I wrote: >"The faculty lawsuit does not ask for damages, it asks for injunctive relief >and saying that is why they are not going to release their financials implies >directly that evidence of mismanagement will reasonably be inferred by a >judge and jury. I know this is a standard reaction to a lawsuit but it just >proves they are reactining like a typical corporation rather than one inspired by >a mission." > > >Sally wrote: >Well, in order to get to a Jury Trial, (about the truth of facts and >inferences based on such facts,) there are many hoops to jump through, and one of >those will be standing. I doubt if Faculty and Staff have any standing at all >except for torts or damages to them collectively and individually as a >particular class of individuals impacted by the BoT decision. Can you find in Ohio >Case Law any example where an organization or business that has essentially >declared bankruptcy has been ordered by a court to continue operations for >the welfare of anyone? Can you find anything in the Ohio Codes of Legislative >Law that says this? -- no. Ohio Law as with other state's laws, understands >Boards of Directors or Trustees as having a profound fiduciary >responsibility to protect property assets of the corporations, for profit and non-profit, >for which they are responsible -- and these laws thus empower such Boards to >take actions to that end. > >We have large arguments in American Political History about what is called >"American Exceptionalism" -- and how ideas stemming from such a belief >frequently impact how we think about US actions and policy vis a vis the rest of the >world. Perhaps there is an equally troublesome belief in something called >Antioch Exceptionalism, that leads to beliefs that somehow we have a mission >that is outside normal non-profit corporate law. Yes -- the college does >have a precious mission -- but among other things, it does not overturn the laws >of Ohio or the laws of gravity. I did not say there would be an order to continue operations to benefit the faculty or the Alumni or even current students. What I said was that the faculty suit demands the University abide by their contract with the faculty and also, in the interim, asks for injunction against liquidation. The faculty may be the only ones (Union reps any comment?) who have standing because there contract may have been violated. The irreperable harm argument is essentially that if the U starts selling of assets or makes other moves to mothball the college the faculty will not be able to obtain relief, i.e. relief for the faculty is not getting to keep their jobs neccesarilly it is about having their contract rights enforced and keeping the assets together that those rights are tied to. If they prove that other less drastic means were available (e.g. massive alumni movement to keep college going) it won't matter if the U has so damaged the reputation of the College that it won't matter if the faculty win or not. This is not exceptionalism it is routine enforcement of a labour contract. I admitt to not knowing, or having the time to research the question of standing for the alumni to sue for various types of breach of duty. I am asking to know where the legal committee is on this. And so far Sally all you have to offer are statements that Ohio law and courts are mute on the issue. Well as you must admit there may be cases that are on point that don't pop up when you type "Trustees" "College" "Breach" into Google. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 10:58:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 10:58:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <98480db8acde1da7fc90a4caac31ad21@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <6a8e9aa3307128b756e63444e6903c45@www.antiochians.org> >Imagine how much of a head ache we all would not have now. >I definitely believe hind sight 20 20 that this decision by Al Guskin, thanks for saving the college, was a mistake. >I think that no one involved had the foresight to see the mistake coming from the Board of Trustees. >How and when did Board of Trustees ever have connections to military intelligence before now? >THe new parking lot for the new Mcgregor is open. I drove around it last night. >It was a wonderful drive in Yellow Springs if you get the chance. I guess our pedestrian draw bridge like side walk to the college is done now across our man made mini lakes. >call me if you need a friend >9373019064 >Can part of our law suit give our old powers back to the president to succeed Steve and Will someone please ask Al to step in and help again he is a genius and on faculty for the PHD program that travels all the universities. >Thanks to Scott from Antiochiana for the info. >anyone watch American Blackout >check it out it has congresswoman Mckinney the truth sayer and savior of american government >exposing overt covert racism from our current administration both to buy the presidency of our country and to marginalize already victims of institutionalized racism in ways that look like pre integration america >civil rights violations >the closing of antioch another one >i will try and speak up and out more in here please encourage me >jude >www.myspace.com/judelogandemers >www.myspace.com/mrmcjudelogandemers Jude, I never understand what you are talking about. Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 11:14:12 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 11:14:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9fb6c275d3db54347d7ab1f2ba5ac1fe@www.antiochians.org> >>In a message dated 8/17/2007 3:51:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >>marklp2@comcast.net writes: >> >>If the assets of the College >>have not been properly managed, then perhaps the assets should be placed in >>more competent hands. And if the University finances have been managed to >>create the necessity of "cashing in" the College's assets, that to me >>(non-lawyer that I am) would constitute malfeasance. I'm hoping that the >>injunction requested by the faculty would give us time to shed some light on >>these issues. >> >>John Hevelin '68 >> >> >> >>Well, so who would have standing to ask that question in court? I think the >>Village would, and I think the Alumni if properly and independently >>constituted would, but the Faculty, not really. Faculty Senate with the power to >>vote on conferring degrees was eliminated back in 1967 -- and with that their >>real power. That turned the Faculty into not much more than a discussion >>forum. Now I hold a 1962 Degree, voted on by AdCil, the Faculty Senate and the >>Board of Trustees. I feel like making a huge reproduction of it and using >>lazar lights pointing something at the area over the Bridge in Mpls that >>collapsed, and making plain it was not always so slap dash as it became later. >>Antiochian, Proud of Earned Degree. >> >> >> >>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour >WTF is an earned degree? She's again implying that yours is not earned and worthless because you have evaulations and you are too stupid to call yourself Antiochian. Of course she wont say it right out. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 11:19:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 11:19:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] sooooo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/1150173619_5511695998_o.jpg[/img] I was wondering when somebody would go there. Considered it myself a couple of times. Was saving it. Nicely done From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 12:18:48 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 12:18:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <76f184474563563a875da5fcf904fb8b@antiochians.org> Hi Shelley-- the living room is full of boxes--my husband is about to drive my daughter Isabel from Santa Fe to Yellow Springs! What a journey. I'll fly out and meet them for Thursday's orientation etc. Of course I'm worried about potential chaos, and the sadness of losing the college. But on the positive side, I know this will be an educational year like no other. I think we can expect an adventure--and there seems to be a lot of good will from faculty, staff, etc. I've been sending $ to both faculty and alumni efforts. I can't say--or see the future--enough to know if these efforts will pay off in time to keep our kids from having to transfer. But I feel the fight is important for its own sake. I guess my feeling is to expect a transfer--and if Antioch stays open the kids can always stay put. I'm unclear about if the summer co-op is open to Freshman, unclear as to if the abroad program is a good option.... Antioch seemed so perfect for my daughter--and my uncle went there, as well as a close friend and many aquaintances. It seems students are a strong base too, and should be helped in their efforts to support the school. Good luck with it all! best, Miriam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 12:23:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 12:23:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Well, in order to get to a Jury Trial, (about the truth of facts and inferences based on such facts,) there are many hoops to jump through, and one of those will be standing. I doubt if Faculty and Staff have any standing at all... A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Faculty standing is indisputable. They have privity of contract with the BoT. Standing is not going to be an issue. Suggested topics for OFFLINE discussion: 1) Picking apart the faculty's attempt at an injunction. The faculty have hired qualified counsel to represent them in this attempt at an injunction. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 12:25:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 12:25:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40617a681cb120790889a5e83d48a044@antiochians.org> Hi Shelley--I tried a post but it erased. So--again--I'm worried about the chaos but optimistic that there will be a lot of support for the kids. Personally I've been sending $ to both alumni and faculty--I think Antioch is worth supporting even if the students will have to transfer. I can't tell what the future holds, am expecting transfer, but if Antioch remains open, students can stay. I wonder if the summer co-op is open to Freshman ands if the abroad program is worthwhile. I think students may be a great help in supporting the school. I wish you all the best--my daughter is packing for the trip from Santa Fe to Yellow Springs. You can write me directly at msagan1035@aol.com best, Miriam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 12:40:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 12:40:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <6a8e9aa3307128b756e63444e6903c45@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >>Imagine how much of a head ache we all would not have now. >>I definitely believe hind sight 20 20 that this decision by Al Guskin, thanks for saving the college, was a mistake. >>I think that no one involved had the foresight to see the mistake coming from the Board of Trustees. >>How and when did Board of Trustees ever have connections to military intelligence before now? >>THe new parking lot for the new Mcgregor is open. I drove around it last night. >>It was a wonderful drive in Yellow Springs if you get the chance. I guess our pedestrian draw bridge like side walk to the college is done now across our man made mini lakes. >>call me if you need a friend >>9373019064 >>Can part of our law suit give our old powers back to the president to succeed Steve and Will someone please ask Al to step in and help again he is a genius and on faculty for the PHD program that travels all the universities. >>Thanks to Scott from Antiochiana for the info. >>anyone watch American Blackout >>check it out it has congresswoman Mckinney the truth sayer and savior of american government >>exposing overt covert racism from our current administration both to buy the presidency of our country and to marginalize already victims of institutionalized racism in ways that look like pre integration america >>civil rights violations >>the closing of antioch another one >>i will try and speak up and out more in here please encourage me >>jude >>www.myspace.com/judelogandemers >>www.myspace.com/mrmcjudelogandemers >Jude, I never understand what you are talking about. Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master. actually Travis Guskin just played his hand and he is pro-badguys all the way. The following is an open letter he sent to Toni Murdock. I cant comment right now as I have to go vommit. Begin pile of Bullshit: Toni It was good seeing you and being able to spend some concentrated time talking. The dinner was great and it was good seeing KJ again. Thanks so much for hosting us just a day after you returned from your trip. I felt very comfortable talking with you about Antioch and sharing some of my perspectives. As I said on commencement day in the Inn, it reminded me of our early discussions at Antioch Seattle and it felt good! Jon's comment to me after the dinner was that he was impressed by comfort of the two of us sitting on the couch talking as concerned peers about an institution we care so much about. I felt that way. At the Inn you asked for my perspective on some of the discussions swirling around the University following the June 7 decision to suspend operations of the College.I have reflected a good deal about the issues and the following are my perspectives.I hope they are helpful to you. I, of course, would be willing to continue our discussion of these issues and to share them with whomever you would like. Al Planning for the Reinvention of Antioch College???Managing the Transition 1. Transitions are always painful and difficult, whether personal or organizational. William Bridges, probably the most quoted author on transitions, writes about transition as a three-stage process???the ending, the neutral zone and new beginning. He emphasizes, I believe correctly, that endings are important to complete before one jumps into new beginnings and the neutral zone is an important stage between ending and new beginnings. In the neutral zone an individual or an organization struggles in this time and space and sometimes bounces back and forth between the endings and new beginning before fully embracing the future. a. The next few months at Antioch require a focus on dealing with the decision to effectively close the College in June, 2008. This was a difficult and painful decision and the process for doing it has been a bit problematic. It has also seemed as if many individuals involved in the decision didn't fully appreciate the impact such a decision would have beyond the College and University. But the decision has been made and in practical and real terms is irreversible, no matter what pressure may be brought to bear to change it. I believe this strongly because College students have already begun seeking alternative colleges to attend, parents and students are not likely to apply to a College which announced it is closing and especially one which is in such bad shape financially and physically or to trust that the College will stay open if the decision is changed. In effect, while there may be some hardy souls who will want to stay or continue at the College, they will be few in number and will generate even less tuition revenue than has been the case in the last year. My guess is that some of the strongest advocates for reversing the decision will not be willing to send their own children to the College! Therefore, it is essential that the ending i.e., suspending College operations must not be a muddied process; it is very important that this ending be clearly enunciated so that the future can be pursued. b. But, the reality of the neutral zone is that some people will still struggle with the closing of the College and there will be continuing actions occurs. Nevertheless, there must be a strong effort and demonstrable actions from the University leadership to fulfill the commitment to reinvent the College in the next four years. 2. Facing the reality that you and the Board will be subjected to intense pressure, uncivil behavior and unrealistic demands must be, I believe, accepted and responded to with patience and listening but also with great perseverance regarding an intense focus on the University's assertion that it is deeply committed to reinvent the College for the 21st century. 3. While accepting the pain of these pressures, I believe you as Chancellor must begin the deliberative process of moving to the future and a new beginning. I strongly recommend that within the next few months you establish a Chancellor-appointed Task Force that will make recommendations to you regarding the parameters of the planning process. This Task Force will NOT plan the reinvention of the College but will deliberate and deal only with the process that should be followed in planning the reinvention of the College and the basic assumptions of that planning effort. This Task Force should take no more than 6 months to complete its work.It should be a relatively small and not be based on representation from constituencies; and it should be composed of senior people who have extensive experience in higher education change, are knowledgeable about Antioch College and University and have not been directly involved in any of the decision making or advocacy regarding the Board's decision to suspend operations at the College. They should be people who are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning effort and free to offer you the best advice possible. 4. I would urge that all other planning activities that could impinge upon the work of this Task Force be suspended until you receive its recommendations. One example of a process that should be suspended is any discussion of changes in the governance structure of the University. The Task Force charge should include giving you recommendations regarding the assumptions of how the College might be governed and how the planning to consider any governance changes should be conducted. I believe it is imperative that changes in governance NOT be decided upon until and only after the new vision for the College and its place in the University are clearer. In the meantime, I see no reason why campus advisory boards can't become more fully engaged in their local/regional fundraising. 5. Finally, I would like to strongly caution people regarding the idea to separate the College and University. This is one of the key reasons why I feel so strongly about not making any decisions regarding governance at this time. In the last few weeks I have heard a number of proposals regarding the reinvention of Antioch College over the next 4-5 years. One that seems to be advocated by a number of College alumni and faculty as well as some College administrators-- is that the rebuilding of the College should or must include a separation of the College from the University and integrating the College and Antioch McGregor into one unit. Following our recent discussion at the PhD residency, I have been reflecting on this notion and would like to share my thoughts. Before discussing these thoughts, I should emphasize that for some time I have advocated to anyone who would listen that it would be wise to integrate the College and McGregor into one unit, that would either be called Antioch University Yellow Springs or just simply Antioch time we made the decision in 1988 to integrate the Weekend College which we started a year after I came (in 1986) and the IMA (started in the early 1980s I believe)--both of which were administered directly by the University administration--into a new campus which was called the School for Adult and Experiential Learning and in 1990 underwent a name change and became McGregor. The following are my thoughts on separating the College or the combination of the College and McGregor from Antioch University. 1. Presently, it is my understanding, the College receives a University subsidy of more than $1.5 million from the University. I would assume that this resource would be eliminated in any formal separation from the University. If one assumes that endowment funds generate about 4-5% per year (the typical amount for many colleges), this allocation of $1.5 million would equal a living endowmentof $30-35 million. In effect,the new entity would have to raise $30-35 million just to continue its present financial base. 2. Since the present licensure of Antioch University rests with the University as the only legal entity, a formal separation from Antioch University would require the new entity to be licensed to operate in the State of Ohio, which would require a formal review by the Ohio Board of Regents. Given the history of the College, some people might expect that the new entity would have little trouble getting licensed to operate in Ohio.I am not sure at all that this would be a done deal given the financial status of the Colleg basically the College as a separate entity is financially bankrupt and this could be a stumbling block to any agreement by the Ohio Board of Regents to quickly license the College. The combination of the College and McGregor at this juncture will not assure that the combined entity will be seen as financially viable the new McGregor building will likely be seen as a significant drain on its future resources thereby limiting the benefits of utilizing McGregor resources to help the College and the combined entity. Within this context, the Ohio Board of Regents might well push for the rebuilding of the College to remain within the University. At the most, I cannot imagine the Regents approving anything more than provisional certification. In addition, I know from my experience with the Ohio Board of Regents and its staff the degree to which they support the University functioning as a whole entity; they strongly believe in the University's strengths and have encouraged us to do more university-wide programming, not less. 3. Accreditation of a combined College and McGregor by the North Central Association might even be more problematic than state licensure. The NCA has for a number of years questioned the financial and enrollment viability of the College and has called for significant changes in the operations of the College. I would guess that serious changes at the College and fund raising and the existence of substantial cash funds would be required to justify accrediting the new entity given the fact that the combined College and McGregor would be in serious deficit with substantial future obligations. I would assume that the NCA would encourage the University to continue to plan the rebuilding of the College. They might be open to some new governance relationship within the context of the University which might have the potential to give the new entity and the University as a whole some financial stability. 4. There has been much talk a amounts of money e.g., $100 million-- to create a College independent of the University. From 1987-1993, I was involved in a fund raising campaign for the College that raised $50 million about one third of it was deferred or represented the annual gifts over the six-year period. While there may be some new wealthy people who can give large amounts of money, these individuals have yet to come forward. Also, wealthy people do not usually give large amounts of money to desperate institutions and if they do it is usually because they have a great deal of confidence in a strong leader with a powerful vision of the future. People of wealth see their gifts as an investment and want to be assured that they will get a psychic return on their investment. In any major fund raising campaign the rule of thumb is that 90% of the money comes from 10% of the people. Given what I know, I have not seen any indication that large amounts of money can be raised at the present time. The present campaign is indicative of my sense; a good deal of the money for this campaign was contributed by two people/families that were major benefactors in the 1987-1993 campaign. I wonder whether wealthy people would be encouraged by the reality that in the last two years the large contributions of the two families that have generously supported Antioch over the last three decades have been used to fund the annual deficits of the College. I should also add that small gifts of $1-5,000 are helpful annual fund gifts, but it takes 1000 gifts of $1000 to equal a million dollars. So, well meaning alumni who plan to increase their level of giving and are not people of significant wealth will have difficulty just replacing the lost annual allocation from the University to the College, let alone make a huge dent in the College's future needs. Similarly, Foundation grants are not commonly made to fund basic operations of an institution. Most grants fund specific programs that they expect the receiving institution will fund at the end of the grant period. There are exceptions to this but they are also program specific. There are some legitimate alternatives to the present College-University relationship that would alter the present governance process or structure of the University in order to give the College greater autonomy and potentially more stability. None of the alternatives would be easy to implement although they can be implemented. For this reason I would urge you and the Board to go slowly on the governance issues. As you well know, changes in governance processes and structures are fraught with political and organizational minefields that are not always apparent when such decisions are made quickly. Right now the key issue is reinventing the College for the 21st century and not dealing with demands for governance changes, or external consultants ideas about what may or may not work or the desire of new campus presidents for their own boards. All these governance matters can consume the energies of the university especially the energy and focus of the Chancellor and create more complexity and uncertainty at a time of considerable crisis over suspending the operations of the College. I hope you find these initial reflections helpful and I certainly be glad to discuss them with you or others further if appropriate. Alan E. Guskin Distinguished University Professor, Ph.D Program in Leadership and Change, University President Emeritus, Antioch University 805 Dayton S E-mail: aguskin@phd.antioch.edu From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 12:53:44 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (shel623 (shel623@aol.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 12:53:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: <40617a681cb120790889a5e83d48a044@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Hi Shelley--I tried a post but it erased. So--again--I'm worried about the chaos but optimistic that there will be a lot of support for the kids. Personally I've been sending $ to both alumni and faculty--I think Antioch is worth supporting even if the students will have to transfer. I can't tell what the future holds, am expecting transfer, but if Antioch remains open, students can stay. I wonder if the summer co-op is open to Freshman ands if the abroad program is worthwhile. I think students may be a great help in supporting the school. I wish you all the best--my daughter is packing for the trip from Santa Fe to Yellow Springs. You can write me directly at msagan1035@aol.com >best, >Miriam thank you for your response. It should be interesting. I am very surprised that there have not been more postings by parents throughout this process. I think that incoming freshman have enough to be anxious about. The closing of Antioch, subsequent layoffs and cutbacks, having to transfer etc. etc., just adds to the mix. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 13:02:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 13:03:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1b4607cf0720a93f78aad103c45846b7@antiochians.org> I know--it seems that most parents aren't even aware of these forums. Does anyone know of a way to get them involved? Students are on facebook--and seem connected to each other. One thing to remember--lots of students do transfer--I've had friends with kids who were wretched freshman year in stable ivy league situations, etc. Unfortunately for Antioch students it seems to be necessary, but I think other colleges will reach out to them. From davidallenusa at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 13:05:14 2007 From: davidallenusa at yahoo.com (YAZZ ALLEN) Date: Sun Aug 19 13:05:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Harvard Biz School Journal Parody Of Antioch Crisis In-Reply-To: <20070819161853.2F389611D6C4@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <294615.97757.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> August 19, 07 Hi from Yazz (David Roger) Allen '66! (Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com) The following parody (it's not real) of a Harvard Business School "Leveraged Buyout" article about Antioch College was sent to me by a non-Antiochian from Boston who had read writing I've done about the current Antioch College closedown crisis on the WWW.AntiRecord.Org Antioch College interest/ watchdog website (est. 1998..oldest one). I replied to it (gloomily) and my replies are included below. ---------- Harvard Business School: Leveraged Buy-Out Case-Book Case No. 46: Antioch College Antioch College is susceptible to a virtual leveraged buy-out managed by any administrator with his/her hands on the controls. The plan begins with the formation of a holding company called Antioch University. This entity takes shape by inaugurating start-up ?campuses? with mailboxes in Seattle, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, and Keene, NH as well as on the original campus in Ohio. These places offer mail-order graduate degrees and are staffed by a non-tenured, adjunct faculty. They key their offerings to existing professions (teachers) in need of advanced degrees. They also lobby state legislature to ensure that the states ?raise? quality standards for teachers by requiring masters degrees. The satellite campuses drain off money from the original campus so that old Antioch College becomes a liability, compelling the administrators of Antioch University to announce its temporary closing. New, non-tenured faculty will be hired in 2010. In the meantime, the bills have to be paid, and so the south twenty acres, bordering Allen St., are sold to a developer willing to pay top-dollar for land nestled against the remaining college campus. Construction jobs are promised to the locals, many of whom worked at the college but have since been laid off. A new entity called ?Antioch College? reopens in 2012, but now as a branch campus of Antioch University. It is given a permanent mailbox and is perhaps managed by a dean on full salary with benefits. In any case, it offers mail-order bachelors degrees administered by its non-tenured, part-time faculty. Some of the old campus buildings, especially the lab buildings, are leased out to start-up research companies because they offer quality locations. The old dormitories, no longer needed for a non-residential student body, are contracted out to Dayton businesses wanting to use them for corporate retreats. In 2015 the administration announces that Antioch University is solvent and that ?Antioch College? is not doing so badly itself (financially, that is). Satisfied with their work, the administrators vote themselves a raise and the chancellor resigns with a handsome buy-out package. He is said to be considering a high post at Oberlin College er, ah , I mean ?Oberlin University.? Thank you for your kind email message and the attached article about Antioch and a leveraged buyout scenario. I think you got it right. The school is beseiged by sharks and the bad guys currently seem to have the upper hand. Much talk about using the school property for an old age home location has been put forward, and dorms in OK shape presently have been sized up for that, according to reports. But.......overall.....your evaluation of the mentality of sharpie administrators (and millionaire trustees) is correct. It's a shame the school is so vulnerable to the current attack on it, and also that alumni and others don't seem (at present..Aug. 2007) to have the wit or organizational skills to fight off the attackers. Antioch College is an important school, not just to the alumni, but to the entire higher ed scene in the USA and the world beyond. Many have observed that the middle classes of the world are disappearing, and only the very rich and very poor will remain. Same is true with education. Only the wealthy will attend residential higher ed. schools (the traditional prestige schools) and everyone else will be consigned to University Of Phoenix type internet correspondance, voc-ed schools. The great renaissance of residential higher ed available and embraced by common, non-aristocrat people seen in the 19th and 20th centuries is ending. Higher ed for non-aristocrats will not include culture or critical thinking skills....not any more. Antioch seems a victim to this trend. The big money for higher ed is like the big money for reliable cars and substantial housing.....only the very rich can afford it, and the rest of the world is getting shoved into what's left, which is not much. I think the world (and certainly the USA) is moving into a "Dark Ages" period where the rich will run things from behind castle walls...very high walls....and what goes on outside the walls may be grim, and certainly unsanitary, uncultured, and uneducated. Good-bye democracy, hello return of aristocracy. That's, overall, what the assassination of Antioch College is about. Antioch doesn't fit into the new world, where the rich will go to traditional prestigious residential schools, and everybody else will get correspondance courses from U. Of Phoenix type schools aimed at voc-ed, and certainly NEVER encouraging critical thinking or independent or creative thought or creative anything. What the "workplace" waiting for voc-ed college grads wants is pliant, compliant, docile entrants, as masochistic as possible. NOT fiesty, self-sufficient Antiochians. alumni-chat-request@w3.antioch.edu wrote: Send Alumni-chat mailing list submissions to alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to alumni-chat-request@w3.antioch.edu You can reach the person managing the list at alumni-chat-owner@w3.antioch.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Alumni-chat digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preemptedalumniefforts? (Barrie Grenell) 2. Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts (jal2121 (jah@hotmail.com)) 3. Re: August 23rd is coming (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) 4. Re: August 23rd is coming (Steven Duffy) 5. what went wrong? (Pam Olsen) 6. Re: what went wrong? (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) 7. Re: sooooo (J. Greg Williams) 8. Re: BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) 9. mother of incoming freshman (Shel623@aol.com) 10. Re: AB response to webinar (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) 11. Re: AB response to webinar (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) 12. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) 13. Re: BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) 14. Re: sooooo (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) 15. Re: mother of incoming freshman (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) From: "Barrie Grenell" To: "'Alumni Chat List'" Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 07:08:55 -0700 Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preemptedalumniefforts? Do you suppose yeast lady might be interested in growing a department/program at Antioch? Barrie Dallas Grenell '65 _________________ Barrie Grenell QBA (415) 826-2409 sercle@sbcglobal.net -----Original Message----- From: Sistersara@aol.com [mailto:Sistersara@aol.com] Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 6:40 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preemptedalumniefforts? Hi Steve -- you know we know each other. Randall Hall, Fall of 1957. Anyhow, good to argue and discuss with you again. In a message dated 8/17/2007 7:01:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, wasb@albany.edu writes: Several brief responses to Sistersara: - The lawsuit has preempted alumni efforts only if the alumni want that to happen. Keeping pressure on the BoT by means other than (in addition to) the litigation is very important. One does not want the BofT to believe that "it is all up to the lawyers." If the Alumni Board really wants to have leverage, they have to acquire a corporate identity separate from the University. Right now they are in a situation where the University could just abolish what is for all practical purposes, an advisory committee within its own structure. About two months ago I suggested they incorporate as a Foundation, (not a 501(c)3) with a dedicated mission of reopening Antioch College as a classic Liberal Arts institution, re-visioned for the 21st century. But the key to this is the kind of independence that will probably not please the BoT, but at the same time will give Alumni some leverage. My idea did not get much approval here, because I am not an all or nothing thinker. I can see closing the college for a few years and doing the kind of research and planning that success would require. Afterall, the college has not in its present incarnation been very successful selling the product, and for a tuition dependent institution, selling the product is critical. Sometimes when you have a failed product you have to take it off the market -- do hard nosed research, reformulate the product, and reintroduce. But to do that with Alumni input, the Alumni Board has to create the proper platform. So yes -- in addition to litigation there are many means open to us -- those US who hold earned Antioch Degrees -- but there has to be a strategy other than hope that the BoT will listen. Hope is not a plan, nor is loud noises about the need for love, good will, alma mater love and all the rest. The best of all possible worlds would be collaboration between an independent Alumni Board (refashioned as a Foundation) with real assets in the bank and able to be put on the negotiating table, and a BoT that might have a somewhat different vision, but also is pressured to re-open. In the meantime, someone needs to be actively demanding that assets be preserved, and an Alumni Foundation might just achieve that. Antioch's financial failure dates way way back -- and we need to understand two things about that. First of all, Ohio has a statute of limitations that probably will not permit the use of say 20 or 30 year old financial data as part of litigation. Any litigant will probably be limited to transactions and decisions over the past 5 years. But understanding what went wrong really does mean going back and unearthing lots of the past, because decision making is influenced by culture -- and over the years Antioch adopted a cultural crisis band aid approach that never morphed into the necessary identification of core problems and long term planning. I estimate, for instance, that for the college to successfully re-open with the kind of faculty appropriate to it, there will be a need for at least 100 million in the dedicated Endowment to back about 60% of necessary faculty wages and benefits. (I assume tuition could carry the other 40%). I think Academic Tenure is on the way out in many institutions -- but Academics would have the same protections if they thought in terms of fairly long term contracts with clear criteria for evaluation and renewal. Guaranteed Lifetime Employment in all fields is on the way out as our economic and social system changes -- but those who have a huge investment in a personal tool set (advanced professional degrees), do need a system of job protection and income/security protection. This is particularly important for persons who are perhaps over 40, and newly have to look at the job market. The point is to provide a cushion and a system for moving around as appropriate. I also want to find better means for Scholars to speak up and out on public policy matters based on their expertise -- I want to stop the business of Corporations, Big Oil, for instance, buying up the climate scholars so as to argue against things like the Global warming data, in otherwords I want to update what freedom of inquiry and advocacy is about, and how important it is culturally. Tenure is indirect -- we need to find a direct way to accomplish this. I know lots of Professors who in one way or another sold out to the better bidders from the Corporate World who would help fund this or that institute. All of us who have been around the Academic world over the past 30 years know about all this. So I would hope Antioch issues do not devolve into just an argument about Tenure. I have a friend from grad school days, a biologist, who spent 25 years modifying yeasts. Her idea was a yeast that would eat organic matter of all sorts -- cardboard, ag waste, garbage, etc., and turn it into some sort of fuel that would power generators or run cars. Post doc she went through 5 Universities without any rank, hauling her yeasts around with her. Big Oil didn't want her funded, so she never got much institutional support, just a temp teaching slot, and a lab corner. But she quietly took out patents on her yeasts, and today she is a multi-millionaire. She is also a very simple Quakerly type, who still drives a beat up car, and could care less about luxury. Any of those five Universities would die today for having provided significant institutional support, and thus a share of ownership in her patents. But they failed the argument about advocacy against the demands of Big Oil -- so why should she share? That is the vast American Academic Environment in which Little Antioch has to conduct its debate. - As the mention of the possibility of settlement with the faculty as to termination indicates, lawsuits settle. They settle because, in part, the information provided through discovery --information which, in this case, the BofT has been refusing to reveal-- is sufficiently embarrassing to the defendant that it is thought best to settle rather than take the risk of trial It could go either way -- depending on what would be admitted as evidence. Personally, I do think that the way the college has been treated over the years is somewhat like a corporate raid or disembowelment of Mama Antioch. But why didn't anyone other than Katy and the AIF crew set up any defenses? I tend to think closing has been an option for years, and because of that there will be little evidence on the table that will embarrass the BoT. They may not be popular, but they will be within the law. - As your comments suggest, the difficulty with this lawsuit might be constructing a remedy if the judge decides for the plaintiffs. I would think that a victory on the merits for the plaintiffs would be sufficiently embarrassing to the BofT (although there is the question: does ANYTHING embarrass them?) might lead to a settlement on the matter of remedy, which could go to reopening the College and on what basis. In short, even if (and as not a lawyer, and certainly not one practicing in Ohio) a judge is unlikely to "force" the reopening, it might nonetheless result from the lawsuit. I don't think the judge will decide for the Plaintiffs. About six weeks ago I did discuss much of this situation with a local political friend who is a lawyer, a litigator, and who had never heard of Antioch really, but who has been involved in this sort of litigation. I got some answers to my questions -- some of which are reflected in my sense that injunctive relief may not be easy, if not impossible to obtain, and that Ohio Appeals courts generally don't reverse district judges on such a matter. If someone had sued back in the 70's just after the strike, there would be massive standing for the destruction of the institution, with lots of folk with standing. But too many people have thwarted efforts to deal with problems since then to make a decent argument. No one with any connection or familiarity with the college "Just Realized" that there were huge problems. Steve Wasby '59 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From: "jal2121 (jah@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:13:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preempted alumni efforts Gerry, I loved your cartoon. Here's one for you: http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/121305/meet-you-at-the-intersection.gif From: "Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:26:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] August 23rd is coming So who here will be attending this "open meeting"? http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/docs/FromTheBoardofTrustees.pdf I'm hoping that people from this website will bring out some of the awesome information that has been discovered, and pose penetrating questions for all to hear, as the press will be reporting the proceedings. A Holiday Inn in Cinncinnatti? Who would have thunk things could sink this low? Jane Slater Ashland, OR Class of '80 From: "Steven Duffy" CC: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu To: "Alumni Chat List" Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:31:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] August 23rd is coming Alumni Chat List on Saturday, August 18, 2007 at 1:26 PM -0500 wrote: >http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/docs/FromTheBoardofTrustees.pdf This meeting will be at the Holiday Inn near by Cincinnati Airport which actually means northern Kentucky. Probably the venue is near an airport so folks can easily fly in and out.... and probably just far enough from YS to make it a little more calm..kinda like moving a controversial trial to a different venue.......I am sure this meeting will be trying for us all. The University has booked a large room there that holds 325 people. Hope everyone fits... I imagine there will be people coming from many places. Have heard that lots of Chicagoantiochians are coming, YS may be chartering a bus...other folks will go in cars. The morning will be a town hall metting with folks allowed 5 minutes each. The afternoon will have 25 stakeholders to talk about re-birthing the college or whatever term you think might apply. The stakeholders are supposed to be representative of alumni. faculty, staff and area residents. There may be a faciltator.... Wish there will some big benevolent donors in the wings...but until that time it is just waiting for enough small donors with goodwill to help us. We collectively are so worth fighting for. Duffy From: Pam Olsen To: Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:02:31 -0700 Subject: [Alumni-chat] what went wrong? Steve Wasby said: " But understanding what went wrong really does mean going back and unearthing lots of the past, because decision making is influenced by culture -- and over the years Antioch adopted a cultural crisis band aid approach that never morphed into the necessary identification of core problems and long term planning. I estimate, for instance, that for the college to successfully re-open with the kind of faculty appropriate to it, there will be a need for at least 100 million in the dedicated Endowment to back about 60% of necessary faculty wages and benefits. (I assume tuition could carry the other 40%)." Steve, Of course, I know nothing about Antioch's finances, but even in the 60s we used to joke that Antioch was always on the edge financially because grads were all out winning victories for humanity instead of getting rich. Unfortunately, it's not funny. I suspect a lot of alumni (myself included) have just assumed Antioch would find a way, and haven't done as much as we might. Personally, thanks to Managed Care (I'm a health care provider in private practice--Managed Care devastated our income) and a (past tense) serious illness, I live on the edge financially. But even I could commit to $20 or $25 a month, deducted from my bank account every month. Call it the Latte Factor! If 15,000 alumni could do the same, that would be about $20,000,000 in four years. I assume there are some who could do more, but if almost everyone did something, it would add up. It's going to take a little from all of us, over a period of time, to build up the endowment so that Antioch never has to go through this again. As far as I know, there has NEVER been an adequate endowment. I think in the 60s they were saying that most colleges operate from 80% endowment and 20% tuition, and Antioch was just the opposite, even when the census was highest. I've written to three of my Antioch friends about this situation, and they all had heard, were sad, but didn't have any idea what was going on (nor did I), and figured, "well, they'll probably never be able to come up with the money". Many Antiochians just have too much on their plates (winning victories for humanity is VERY stressful!) to think about how to get involved or how they might help. But if we get in touch with EVERYBODY (maybe a mailing tree, if a central mailing is too much), concisely laying out what has happened, why it has happened, and what it will take to make the college strong, and show them how little bits add up, then maybe we can get the vast majority involved with a simple no hassle small and regular donation. (I realize I have a fairly simple mind, but hey...) I also suspect that there is ambivalence about Antioch in more alumni than just me. It was a great ride, but would we want our kids to go through it? The more I'm hearing, the more faith I have that it is still a great ride for most students and that adjustments can be made to give more psychological/developmental support to all of them. Art's comment about the developmental issues of adolescents brought it together for me. I mean, you put together the raging hormones of the late teens and early adulthood and the ideological developmental stage that teens go through, and you have Antioch in the 60s--and probably Antioch in every generation (they not only BELIEVE, but do so with their whole being, making it hard sometimes to get perspectivew and respect other viewpoints--or they think they should believe with their whole being, but can't decide WHAT to believe, with everything coming at them from different directions). Perhaps there is not enough dialogue with adults to temper and channel that in a way that creates less turmoil and pressure for students, or at least helps them to work through the turmoil. Yes, I'm sure it happens in all colleges. But perhaps more at Antioch because of our tradition of "hands off," freedom, and all that. For me, although we had advisors and preceptoral fellows, they were not trained to really help students with the kind of emotional turmoil we often got into. It was my third year before I really found someone who would listen and help me sort through things. Maybe it's better now with a smaller student body. In any case, I think we need to make a concerted effort to involve all the alumni we can, find out what their concerns are, and what it would take to get their support. And show them that even if they aren't rich, here's a victory for humanity that will only take a little bit of help each month. I do it for a little boy in Quatemala. I can do it for Antioch. Pam From: "john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:20:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] what went wrong? >I suspect a lot of alumni (myself included) have just assumed Antioch would find a way, and haven't done as much as we might. Personally, thanks to Managed Care (I'm a health care provider in private practice--Managed Care devastated our income) and a (past tense) serious illness, I live on the edge financially. But even I could commit to $20 or $25 a month, deducted from my bank account every month. Call it the Latte Factor! If 15,000 alumni could do the same, that would be about $20,000,000 in four years. I assume there are some who could do more, but if almost everyone did something, it would add up. It's going to take a little from all of us, over a period of time, to build up the endowment so that Antioch never has to go through this again. I like your "Latte Factor" suggestion, Pam. It's the kind of idea I keep hoping will crop up in this Forum. >I also suspect that there is ambivalence about Antioch in more alumni than just me. It was a great ride, but would we want our kids to go through it? I have no children of my own. Antioch as it was in the 1960s would have been a perfect place for my niece, who graduated from high school this spring. After viewing the campus last autumn, she did not even apply to the College. She was accepted at several schools and will start Vassar this fall. >Art's comment about the developmental issues of adolescents brought it together for me. I mean, you put together the raging hormones of the late teens and early adulthood and the ideological developmental stage that teens go through, and you have Antioch in the 60s--and probably Antioch in every generation (they not only BELIEVE, but do so with their whole being, making it hard sometimes to get perspectivew and respect other viewpoints--or they think they should believe with their whole being, but can't decide WHAT to believe, with everything coming at them from different directions). Pam, I think we attended Antioch at the same time, although I don't have any memory of you (other div?). One of the reasons I decided to attend Antioch was because it didn't seem have a lot of the immature student stuff going on that seemed to occur at other schools -- panty raids, binge drinking, fraternity/sorority hazing, all of the hoopla surrounding sporting events, stuff that still goes on today and occasionally leads to death. I remember a friend of mine from high school who graduated a few years ahead of me and who went to Union College in Schenectady. His descriptions of the hazing inflicted on incoming students appalled me. The demonstrations at Gegner's barbershop the spring before I started Antioch in the summer of 1964 made the news in my small town in upstate New York, and my classmates had fun teasing me with remarks like, "Still going to that commie school, Hevelin?" You bet I was. Students demonstrating to end segregation seemed more adult to me than fr at parties and hazing. I found most of my classmates at Antioch to be very adult and very mature. There were some exceptions, but by and large, it was a comfortable community. I have been friends with some Antiochians for over forty years. I never felt physically or emotionally threatened. It was an exciting and challenging and stimulating place to be. I grieve over the impending closure. >In any case, I think we need to make a concerted effort to involve all the alumni we can, find out what their concerns are, and what it would take to get their support. And show them that even if they aren't rich, here's a victory for humanity that will only take a little bit of help each month. I do it for a little boy in Quatemala. I can do it for Antioch. >Pam I think many alumni are waiting in the wings, waiting to see whether the College can be separated from the University or not -- they feel loyalty to the College, not the University. I don't think the Trustees care what the alumni do -- I think they've decided to close the College, period. So let's wish the faculty luck with the lawsuit, give them our support, and figure out where to go next. John Hevelin '68 From: "J. Greg Williams" To: Alumni Chat List Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:54:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] sooooo Hey Callie, I received an electronic version of the Golden Ticket as they seemed to have problems with my address. I'll be flying in Friday night, not entirely sure where I'm staying yet. Who else? I certainly don't want to be the only one carrying a stake. -Greg On Aug 17, 2007, at 1:19 PM, ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com) wrote: > It would be nice if those who have received the royal invite would > let others know. It's strangely quiet out there on this topic. > > Callie > >>> they claim they have invited alums... anyone out there been invited? >> According to YS news, they asked the Alumni Board president to >> submit names that AU chose from... >> >> -laura > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From: "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:30:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? >In a message dated 8/17/2007 3:51:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >marklp2@comcast.net writes: > >If the assets of the College >have not been properly managed, then perhaps the assets should be placed in >more competent hands. And if the University finances have been managed to >create the necessity of "cashing in" the College's assets, that to me >(non-lawyer that I am) would constitute malfeasance. I'm hoping that the >injunction requested by the faculty would give us time to shed some light on >these issues. > >John Hevelin '68 > > > >Well, so who would have standing to ask that question in court? I think the >Village would, and I think the Alumni if properly and independently >constituted would, but the Faculty, not really. Faculty Senate with the power to >vote on conferring degrees was eliminated back in 1967 -- and with that their >real power. That turned the Faculty into not much more than a discussion >forum. Now I hold a 1962 Degree, voted on by AdCil, the Faculty Senate and the >Board of Trustees. I feel like making a huge reproduction of it and using >lazar lights pointing something at the area over the Bridge in Mpls that >collapsed, and making plain it was not always so slap dash as it became later. >Antiochian, Proud of Earned Degree. > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour WTF is an earned degree? From: Shel623@aol.com To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:35:58 EDT Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman As August 23 approaches I would love to hear from other parents of incoming students as to their concerns and expectations for the coming year. Shelley ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From: "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:43:56 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar >Travis, we are meeting with the UBOT next week to present our proposal to have them reverse their decision to close the college and allow us to govern Antioch College. Everything we're doing--and I mean everything--has been with the advice of the Legal Committee. I do not doubt you are vetting by the LC, however there is the morale of the "movement" to consider and tepid public releases do not put fire in the belly. I admire your ability to be sanguine regarding negotiations. More stick. From: "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar >In a message dated 8/17/2007 11:35:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: >I wrote: >"The faculty lawsuit does not ask for damages, it asks for injunctive relief >and saying that is why they are not going to release their financials implies >directly that evidence of mismanagement will reasonably be inferred by a >judge and jury. I know this is a standard reaction to a lawsuit but it just >proves they are reactining like a typical corporation rather than one inspired by >a mission." > > >Sally wrote: >Well, in order to get to a Jury Trial, (about the truth of facts and >inferences based on such facts,) there are many hoops to jump through, and one of >those will be standing. I doubt if Faculty and Staff have any standing at all >except for torts or damages to them collectively and individually as a >particular class of individuals impacted by the BoT decision. Can you find in Ohio >Case Law any example where an organization or business that has essentially >declared bankruptcy has been ordered by a court to continue operations for >the welfare of anyone? Can you find anything in the Ohio Codes of Legislative >Law that says this? -- no. Ohio Law as with other state's laws, understands >Boards of Directors or Trustees as having a profound fiduciary >responsibility to protect property assets of the corporations, for profit and non-profit, >for which they are responsible -- and these laws thus empower such Boards to >take actions to that end. > >We have large arguments in American Political History about what is called >"American Exceptionalism" -- and how ideas stemming from such a belief >frequently impact how we think about US actions and policy vis a vis the rest of the >world. Perhaps there is an equally troublesome belief in something called >Antioch Exceptionalism, that leads to beliefs that somehow we have a mission >that is outside normal non-profit corporate law. Yes -- the college does >have a precious mission -- but among other things, it does not overturn the laws >of Ohio or the laws of gravity. I did not say there would be an order to continue operations to benefit the faculty or the Alumni or even current students. What I said was that the faculty suit demands the University abide by their contract with the faculty and also, in the interim, asks for injunction against liquidation. The faculty may be the only ones (Union reps any comment?) who have standing because there contract may have been violated. The irreperable harm argument is essentially that if the U starts selling of assets or makes other moves to mothball the college the faculty will not be able to obtain relief, i.e. relief for the faculty is not getting to keep their jobs neccesarilly it is about having their contract rights enforced and keeping the assets together that those rights are tied to. If they prove that other less drastic means were available (e.g. massive alumni movement to keep college going) it won't matter if the U has so damaged the reputation of the College that it won't matter if the faculty win or not. This is not exceptionalism it is routine enforcement of a labour contract. I admitt to not knowing, or having the time to research the question of standing for the alumni to sue for various types of breach of duty. I am asking to know where the legal committee is on this. And so far Sally all you have to offer are statements that Ohio law and courts are mute on the issue. Well as you must admit there may be cases that are on point that don't pop up when you type "Trustees" "College" "Breach" into Google. From: "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:58:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit >Imagine how much of a head ache we all would not have now. >I definitely believe hind sight 20 20 that this decision by Al Guskin, thanks for saving the college, was a mistake. >I think that no one involved had the foresight to see the mistake coming from the Board of Trustees. >How and when did Board of Trustees ever have connections to military intelligence before now? >THe new parking lot for the new Mcgregor is open. I drove around it last night. >It was a wonderful drive in Yellow Springs if you get the chance. I guess our pedestrian draw bridge like side walk to the college is done now across our man made mini lakes. >call me if you need a friend >9373019064 >Can part of our law suit give our old powers back to the president to succeed Steve and Will someone please ask Al to step in and help again he is a genius and on faculty for the PHD program that travels all the universities. >Thanks to Scott from Antiochiana for the info. >anyone watch American Blackout >check it out it has congresswoman Mckinney the truth sayer and savior of american government >exposing overt covert racism from our current administration both to buy the presidency of our country and to marginalize already victims of institutionalized racism in ways that look like pre integration america >civil rights violations >the closing of antioch another one >i will try and speak up and out more in here please encourage me >jude >www.myspace.com/judelogandemers >www.myspace.com/mrmcjudelogandemers Jude, I never understand what you are talking about. Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master. From: "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:14:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] BLAMING THE FACULTY??!??!?? >>In a message dated 8/17/2007 3:51:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >>marklp2@comcast.net writes: >> >>If the assets of the College >>have not been properly managed, then perhaps the assets should be placed in >>more competent hands. And if the University finances have been managed to >>create the necessity of "cashing in" the College's assets, that to me >>(non-lawyer that I am) would constitute malfeasance. I'm hoping that the >>injunction requested by the faculty would give us time to shed some light on >>these issues. >> >>John Hevelin '68 >> >> >> >>Well, so who would have standing to ask that question in court? I think the >>Village would, and I think the Alumni if properly and independently >>constituted would, but the Faculty, not really. Faculty Senate with the power to >>vote on conferring degrees was eliminated back in 1967 -- and with that their >>real power. That turned the Faculty into not much more than a discussion >>forum. Now I hold a 1962 Degree, voted on by AdCil, the Faculty Senate and the >>Board of Trustees. I feel like making a huge reproduction of it and using >>lazar lights pointing something at the area over the Bridge in Mpls that >>collapsed, and making plain it was not always so slap dash as it became later. >>Antiochian, Proud of Earned Degree. >> >> >> >>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour >WTF is an earned degree? She's again implying that yours is not earned and worthless because you have evaulations and you are too stupid to call yourself Antiochian. Of course she wont say it right out. From: "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:19:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] sooooo >[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/1150173619_5511695998_o.jpg[/img] I was wondering when somebody would go there. Considered it myself a couple of times. Was saving it. Nicely done From: "msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:18:48 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman Hi Shelley-- the living room is full of boxes--my husband is about to drive my daughter Isabel from Santa Fe to Yellow Springs! What a journey. I'll fly out and meet them for Thursday's orientation etc. Of course I'm worried about potential chaos, and the sadness of losing the college. But on the positive side, I know this will be an educational year like no other. I think we can expect an adventure--and there seems to be a lot of good will from faculty, staff, etc. I've been sending $ to both faculty and alumni efforts. I can't say--or see the future--enough to know if these efforts will pay off in time to keep our kids from having to transfer. But I feel the fight is important for its own sake. I guess my feeling is to expect a transfer--and if Antioch stays open the kids can always stay put. I'm unclear about if the summer co-op is open to Freshman, unclear as to if the abroad program is a good option.... Antioch seemed so perfect for my daughter--and my uncle went there, as well as a close friend and many aquaintances. It seems students are a strong base too, and should be helped in their efforts to support the school. Good luck with it all! best, Miriam _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... Read my writing about the 2007 Antioch College Crisis on WWW.AntiRecord.Org, oldest Antioch College interest/watchdog website (est. 1998) "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. From afrye at bitwisesystems.com Sun Aug 19 13:44:31 2007 From: afrye at bitwisesystems.com (Ann Frye) Date: Sun Aug 19 13:45:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46C8817F.5020900@bitwisesystems.com> Jeez. Did Guskin teach Karl Rove, or learn from him. Ann >>>Imagine how much of a head ache we all would not have now. >>>I definitely believe hind sight 20 20 that this decision by Al Guskin, thanks for saving the college, was a mistake. >>>I think that no one involved had the foresight to see the mistake coming from the Board of Trustees. >>>How and when did Board of Trustees ever have connections to military intelligence before now? >>>THe new parking lot for the new Mcgregor is open. I drove around it last night. >>>It was a wonderful drive in Yellow Springs if you get the chance. I guess our pedestrian draw bridge like side walk to the college is done now across our man made mini lakes. >>>call me if you need a friend >>>9373019064 >>>Can part of our law suit give our old powers back to the president to succeed Steve and Will someone please ask Al to step in and help again he is a genius and on faculty for the PHD program that travels all the universities. >>>Thanks to Scott from Antiochiana for the info. >>>anyone watch American Blackout >>>check it out it has congresswoman Mckinney the truth sayer and savior of american government >>>exposing overt covert racism from our current administration both to buy the presidency of our country and to marginalize already victims of institutionalized racism in ways that look like pre integration america >>>civil rights violations >>>the closing of antioch another one >>>i will try and speak up and out more in here please encourage me >>>jude >>>www.myspace.com/judelogandemers >>>www.myspace.com/mrmcjudelogandemers >>> >>> >>Jude, I never understand what you are talking about. Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master. >> >> >actually Travis Guskin just played his hand and he is pro-badguys all the way. The following is an open letter he sent to Toni Murdock. > >I cant comment right now as I have to go vommit. > >Begin pile of Bullshit: > >Toni >It was good seeing you and being able to spend some concentrated time >talking. The dinner was great and it was good seeing KJ again. Thanks so >much for hosting us just a day after you returned from your trip. > >I felt very comfortable talking with you about Antioch and sharing some of >my perspectives. As I said on commencement day in the Inn, it reminded me >of our early discussions at Antioch Seattle and it felt good! Jon's >comment to me after the dinner was that he was impressed by comfort of the >two of us sitting on the couch talking as concerned peers about an institution we care so much about. I felt that way. > >At the Inn you asked for my perspective on some of the discussions >swirling around the University following the June 7 decision to suspend >operations of the College.I have reflected a good deal about the issues >and the following are my perspectives.I hope they are helpful to you. > >I, of course, would be willing to continue our discussion of these issues and to share them with whomever you would like. > >Al > >Planning for the Reinvention of Antioch College???Managing the Transition > >1. Transitions are always painful and difficult, whether personal or organizational. William Bridges, probably the most quoted author on transitions, writes about transition as a three-stage process???the ending, the neutral zone and new beginning. He emphasizes, I believe correctly, that endings are important to complete before one jumps into new beginnings and the neutral zone is an important stage between ending and new beginnings. In the neutral zone an individual or an organization struggles in this time and space and sometimes bounces back and forth between the endings and new beginning before fully embracing the future. > >a. The next few months at Antioch require a focus on dealing with the decision to effectively close the College in June, 2008. This was a difficult and painful decision and the process for doing it has been a bit problematic. It has also seemed as if many individuals involved in the decision didn't fully appreciate the impact such a decision would have beyond the College and University. But the decision has been made and in practical and real terms is irreversible, no matter what pressure may be brought to bear to change it. I believe this strongly because College students have already begun seeking alternative colleges to attend, parents and students are not likely to apply to a College which announced it is closing and especially one which is in such bad shape financially and physically or to trust that the College will stay open if the decision is changed. In effect, while there may be some hardy souls who will want to stay or continue at the College, they will be few in n > umber >and will generate even less tuition revenue than has been the case in the last year. My guess is that some of the strongest advocates for reversing the decision will not be willing to send their own children to the College! > >Therefore, it is essential that the ending i.e., suspending College operations must not be a muddied process; it is very important that this ending be clearly enunciated so that the future can be pursued. > >b. But, the reality of the neutral zone is that some people will still struggle with the closing of the College and there will be continuing actions occurs. Nevertheless, there must be a strong effort and demonstrable actions from the University leadership to fulfill the commitment to reinvent the College in the next four years. > >2. Facing the reality that you and the Board will be subjected to intense pressure, uncivil behavior and unrealistic demands must be, I believe, accepted and responded to with patience and listening but also with great perseverance regarding an intense focus on the University's assertion that it is deeply committed to reinvent the College for the 21st century. > >3. While accepting the pain of these pressures, I believe you as Chancellor must begin the deliberative process of moving to the future and a new beginning. I strongly recommend that within the next few months you establish a Chancellor-appointed Task Force that will make recommendations to you regarding the parameters of the planning process. This Task Force will NOT plan the reinvention of the College but will deliberate and deal only with the process that should be followed in planning the reinvention of the College and the basic assumptions of that planning effort. This Task Force should take no more than 6 months to complete its work.It should be a relatively small and not be based on representation from constituencies; and it should be composed of senior people who have extensive experience in higher education change, are knowledgeable about Antioch College and University and have not been directly involved in any of the decision making or advocacy regarding the Board' > s >decision to suspend operations at the College. They should be people who are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning effort and free to offer you the best advice possible. > >4. I would urge that all other planning activities that could impinge upon the work of this Task Force be suspended until you receive its recommendations. One example of a process that should be suspended is any discussion of changes in the governance structure of the University. The Task Force charge should include giving you recommendations regarding the assumptions of how the College might be governed and how the planning to consider any governance changes should be conducted. I believe it is imperative that changes in governance NOT be decided upon until and only after the new vision for the College and its place in the University are clearer. In the meantime, I see no reason why campus advisory boards can't become more fully engaged in their local/regional fundraising. > >5. Finally, I would like to strongly caution people regarding the idea to separate the College and University. This is one of the key reasons why I feel so strongly about not making any decisions regarding governance at this time. > >In the last few weeks I have heard a number of proposals regarding the reinvention of Antioch College over the next 4-5 years. One that seems to be advocated by a number of College alumni and faculty as well as some College administrators-- is that the rebuilding of the College should or must include a separation of the College from the University and integrating the College and Antioch McGregor into one unit. Following our recent discussion at the PhD residency, I have been reflecting on this notion and would like to share my thoughts. > >Before discussing these thoughts, I should emphasize that for some time I have advocated to anyone who would listen that it would be wise to integrate the College and McGregor into one unit, that would either be called Antioch University Yellow Springs or just simply Antioch time we made the decision in 1988 to integrate the Weekend College which we started a year after I came (in 1986) and the IMA (started in the early 1980s I believe)--both of which were administered directly by the University administration--into a new campus which was called the School for Adult and Experiential Learning and in 1990 underwent a name change and became McGregor. > >The following are my thoughts on separating the College or the combination of the College and McGregor from Antioch University. > >1. Presently, it is my understanding, the College receives a University subsidy of more than $1.5 million from the University. I would assume that this resource would be eliminated in any formal separation from the University. If one assumes that endowment funds generate about 4-5% per year (the typical amount for many colleges), this allocation of $1.5 million would equal a living endowmentof $30-35 million. In effect,the new entity would have to raise $30-35 million just to continue its present financial base. > >2. Since the present licensure of Antioch University rests with the University as the only legal entity, a formal separation from Antioch University would require the new entity to be licensed to operate in the State of Ohio, which would require a formal review by the Ohio Board of Regents. Given the history of the College, some people might expect that the new entity would have little trouble getting licensed to operate in Ohio.I am not sure at all that this would be a done deal given the financial status of the Colleg basically the College as a separate entity is financially bankrupt and this could be a stumbling block to any agreement by the Ohio Board of Regents to quickly license the College. The combination of the College and McGregor at this juncture will not assure that the combined entity will be seen as financially viable the new McGregor building will likely be seen as a significant drain on its future resources thereby limiting the benefits of utilizing McGregor >resources to help the College and the combined entity. Within this context, the Ohio Board of Regents might well push for the rebuilding of the College to remain within the University. At the most, I cannot imagine the Regents approving anything more than provisional certification. In addition, I know from my experience with the Ohio Board of Regents and its staff the degree to which they support the University functioning as a whole entity; they strongly believe in the University's strengths and have encouraged us to do more university-wide programming, not less. > >3. Accreditation of a combined College and McGregor by the North Central Association might even be more problematic than state licensure. The NCA has for a number of years questioned the financial and enrollment viability of the College and has called for significant changes in the operations of the College. I would guess that serious changes at the College and fund raising and the existence of substantial cash funds would be required to justify accrediting the new entity given the fact that the combined College and McGregor would be in serious deficit with substantial future obligations. I would assume that the NCA would encourage the University to continue to plan the rebuilding of the College. They might be open to some new governance relationship within the context of the University which might have the potential to give the new entity and the University as a whole some financial stability. > >4. There has been much talk a amounts of money e.g., $100 million-- to create a College independent of the University. From 1987-1993, I was involved in a fund raising campaign for the College that raised $50 million about one third of it was deferred or represented the annual gifts over the six-year period. While there may be some new wealthy people who can give large amounts of money, these individuals have yet to come forward. Also, wealthy people do not usually give large amounts of money to desperate institutions and if they do it is usually because they have a great deal of confidence in a strong leader with a powerful vision of the future. People of wealth see their gifts as an investment and want to be assured that they will get a psychic return on their investment. In any major fund raising campaign the rule of thumb is that 90% of the money comes from 10% of the people. Given what I know, I have not seen any indication that large amounts of money can be raised at t > he >present time. The present campaign is indicative of my sense; a good deal of the money for this campaign was contributed by two people/families that were major benefactors in the 1987-1993 campaign. I wonder whether wealthy people would be encouraged by the reality that in the last two years the large contributions of the two families that have generously supported Antioch over the last three decades have been used to fund the annual deficits of the College. > >I should also add that small gifts of $1-5,000 are helpful annual fund gifts, but it takes 1000 gifts of $1000 to equal a million dollars. So, well meaning alumni who plan to increase their level of giving and are not people of significant wealth will have difficulty just replacing the lost annual allocation from the University to the College, let alone make a huge dent in the College's future needs. Similarly, Foundation grants are not commonly made to fund basic operations of an institution. Most grants fund specific programs that they expect the receiving institution will fund at the end of the grant period. There are exceptions to this but they are also program specific. > >There are some legitimate alternatives to the present College-University relationship that would alter the present governance process or structure of the University in order to give the College greater autonomy and potentially more stability. None of the alternatives would be easy to implement although they can be implemented. For this reason I would urge you and the Board to go slowly on the governance issues. As you well know, changes in governance processes and structures are fraught with political and organizational minefields that are not always apparent when such decisions are made quickly. Right now the key issue is reinventing the College for the 21st century and not dealing with demands for governance changes, or external consultants ideas about what may or may not work or the desire of new campus presidents for their own boards. All these governance matters can consume the energies of the university especially the energy and focus of the Chancellor and create more >complexity and uncertainty at a time of considerable crisis over suspending the operations of the College. > >I hope you find these initial reflections helpful and I certainly be glad to discuss them with you or others further if appropriate. > > Alan E. Guskin > Distinguished University Professor, > Ph.D Program in Leadership and Change, > University President Emeritus, > Antioch University > 805 Dayton S E-mail: aguskin@phd.antioch.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 13:51:42 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 13:51:43 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <46C8817F.5020900@bitwisesystems.com> Message-ID: <2571fdef3d3b2bfd810668ccfd2725c0@www.antiochians.org> >Jeez. Did Guskin teach Karl Rove, or learn from him. Ann Taught him. Now that Rove is out of a job I'm sure he'll be replacing Bloch as president in 2012. From theodora at imbris.com Sun Aug 19 13:59:07 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Sun Aug 19 13:56:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ambivalence Message-ID: John Hevelin wrote: Pam, I think we attended Antioch at the same time, although I don't have any memory of you (other div?). One of the reasons I decided to attend Antioch was because it didn't seem have a lot of the immature student stuff going on that seemed to occur at other schools -- panty raids, binge drinking, fraternity/sorority hazing, all of the hoopla surrounding sporting events, stuff that still goes on today and occasionally leads to death. I remember a friend of mine from high school who graduated a few years ahead of me and who went to Union College in Schenectady. His descriptions of the hazing inflicted on incoming students appalled me. The demonstrations at Gegner's barbershop the spring before I started Antioch in the summer of 1964 made the news in my small town in upstate New York, and my classmates had fun teasing me with remarks like, "Still going to that commie school, Hevelin?" You bet I was. Students demonstrating to end segregation seemed more adult to me than fr at parties and hazing. I found most of my classmates at Antioch to be very adult and very mature. There were some exceptions, but by and large, it was a comfortable community. I have been friends with some Antiochians for over forty years. I never felt physically or emotionally threatened. It was an exciting and challenging and stimulating place to be. I grieve over the impending closure. Hi John, I don't remember you, either. I think I was on B-div most of the time....I changed near the end after a nine month job. Antioch was a big place then. I remember deciding on Antioch for many of the same reasons, plus the co-op program, the opportunity to travel around the country, the honor system, and community government. It seemed like a much more sensible place than other schools. And I also found it to be comfortable in many ways. Even though I had some struggles there, I would not have considered going anyplace else. I met a guy from Kalamazoo College on a co-op, and he told me recently (we're still friends) that one reason he never proposed was that there was no way I would consider leaving Antioch to be with him. I mean gheezh! when I visited him at Kalamazoo, the only place on campus we could be alone was in the middle of the tennis court! The environment there was stifflingly controlling. The more I listen to people and think about kids today, the more I realize it was mostly the conservative community that I grew up in (Utah in the 50s), not having the background in critical thinking, not having been exposed to many of the books that most students had read in high school, and not being able to handle the quantity of work because of that and being ADHD that made it overwhelming for me in some ways. It probably didn't help that my parents were involved in their own problems and were no support. They didn't have a clue what kinds of challenges Antioch presented, and wouldn't have known how to help if they did. THe sexual revolution didn't help. That was much easier for boys than for girls, of course, many of whom struggled with the constant pressure and the possible consequences. I for one cheered when the girls finally stood up to the boys and said "No means NO!" Of course, today's kids have been dealing with the issues of drugs and sex since Jr. High! So these things are probably not as troubling to them by the time they get to college. The thing about Antioch, for me, is this: there is no way to predict how students will do there, and how they will fare with the variety of stimulating challenges. Another one: Ruth Churchill told me my fifth year that she wasn't convinced that moving so much was good for Antiochians. "You learn not to love." And I realized that on one of my last jobs, after two months, a gal I was working with said to me, "What is WRONG with you!?" "What do you mean?" "I've been trying to make friends with you for two months. I've invited you to do things several times. You always say no! Why are you doing that? I want to be your friend!" And I realized that I wasn't making friends anymore because it was so hard to leave them. I had friends scattered all over the country. I got over it and she became a dear friend. sorry I have such a plodding mind, but my point is that, typically, as in my case, the students who are admitted to Antioch have been, to that point, very successful in their lives. And suddenly they are presented with many new challenges, from every angle, all at once. There is no way to predict how they will manage them. Some students seem to manage them very well, and others struggle a LOT! I loved Antioch. AND I would be greatly comforted about sending kids I know there if I knew that there is some kind of mechanism now to monitor with them how they are managing them all. I KNOW it wasn't just me, since I know how many of my friends (not all, but many) and acquaintances struggled with depression and even suicidal ideation, even those who were managing the academics well. If there are still suicides, if there are still students who go through severe depressions, it's still happening. I know there are suicides at every college, but it should not be happening. Not in any college. But each college needs to take responsibiltiy for the kinds of challenges their students are dealing with in their environment, and help them. "Go somewhere else" is not a solution. It would not be difficult to build in sufficient professional counseling opportunities, as part of the progam, to help students with the normal, but nevertheless serious, growing pains of finding their way through the maze of opportunities and challenges. There was a counseling service at Antioch when I was there. I never met the counselors, barely knew their names, had no clue how to access them, never knew anyone who went to them, until McQueen came in about '66. He was more visible and more accessible, for some reason, and quickly became extremely busy. Many students were starving for some real help. There was not enough help for all the students who needed it. Academic advisors, co-op advisors, preceptoral fellows, none of them really had the background or time to help us integrate it all. So I guess that's my soapbox. I hope there is a vigorous and very accessible and not overwhelmed counseling service at Antioch now, and a mechanism whereby all students who are struggling can voice their struggles and find a genuine listening ear to help them work through them. The Inner College helped themselves a lot by having a lot of meetings and discussing what they were struggling with, and I think those meetings really provided them with a lot of support. Nevermind the structural changes that came about as a result, it was the discussions that were the real mechanism. (I've also kept in touch with many of my Antioch friends. The things we shared were so central to who we are. When Peter and I were married (after meeting at Antioch 33 years earlier), several of them came to our wedding in '98. It's been great to keep in touch and know how people's lives are unfolding. I don't know about your friends, but mine are all out there winning victories for humanity!) Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 14:07:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (shel623 (shel623@aol.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 14:07:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: <1b4607cf0720a93f78aad103c45846b7@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >I know--it seems that most parents aren't even aware of these forums. Does anyone know of a way to get them involved? Students are on facebook--and seem connected to each other. One thing to remember--lots of students do transfer--I've had friends with kids who were wretched freshman year in stable ivy league situations, etc. Unfortunately for Antioch students it seems to be necessary, but I think other colleges will reach out to them. i still think it is strange that there aren't more postings about the incoming class. I guess we shall see on the 23rd. As for kids in ivies transferring--of course, it happens all the time. But they don't ENTER their freshman year knowing that they will have to transfer--knowing that there have been layoffs, cutbacks, lots of political stuff flying back and forth, knowing that the program they applied for no longer exists, etc. I would like to think of these kids as pioneers and hope they will have somehting to tell their grancchildren about. I also hope that the nature of their circumstances will create strong bonds among the faculty and students. I hope these kids will travel to other schools together and research other opportunities together. I hope to meet you on the 23rd. (I will be the one wearing the knee immobilizer!!) Shelley From theodora at imbris.com Sun Aug 19 14:22:57 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Sun Aug 19 14:20:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: Travis Sanford said/ "...Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master." I find this very sad. I've been thinking, the BoT is exactly right! The college of the new century: part time faculty who have little investment in the institution, hence no mentors for students; no job security because there's no dependable financial backing, hence, no real academic freedom, no willingness to challenge the status quo (much like our senators and congressmen, letting our democracy go to hell because if they don't, they lose their jobs); no real community (community really must include those mentors and more interaction between generations); all preferably for profit, creating technicians. Thinking might happen because humans are creative, but it won't be helped along by the college. That's the new century, all right. Colleges going the way of the family farm, and small business, and health care (run increasingly by large corporations, in which providers are merely technicians. Or at least they keep trying to reduce us to that). Because they're not AS profitable. Personally, I think if we don't look a little further ahead and cry out for a return to manageable size and community, we'll pay a disastrous price. We already are. Surely the real college of the new century needs to find a way to MAKE a place for these things. The global crisis cries out for leadership in this area. Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 14:36:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 14:36:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <2571fdef3d3b2bfd810668ccfd2725c0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Didn't exactly praise her decision... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 14:50:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 14:51:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Didn't exactly praise her decision... Not that it was the chancellor's decision alone. But still, I read no praise for the decision in the letter. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 15:13:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 15:13:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1ab06c461365b271c68783fe3c5899b3@www.antiochians.org> >>Didn't exactly praise her decision... >Not that it was the chancellor's decision alone. But still, I read no praise for the decision in the letter. Guskin was never big on passing out praise. However this document is revealing in that now he supports the Zucker-Murdock position and had this be an open letter in an attempt to shore up that position (which is weakening). This letter is aimed at re-uniting the BoT (which is divided) and pushing fate accompli. It's also instructive who he seems to intend to get as consultants. Reading between the lines here: >3. While accepting the pain of these pressures, I believe you as Chancellor must begin the deliberative process of moving to the future and a new beginning. I strongly recommend that within the next few months you establish a Chancellor-appointed Task Force that will make recommendations to you regarding the parameters of the planning process. This Task Force will NOT plan the reinvention of the College but will deliberate and deal only with the process that should be followed in planning the reinvention of the College and the basic assumptions of that planning effort. This Task Force should take no more than 6 months to complete its work.It should be a relatively small and not be based on representation from constituencies; and it should be composed of senior people who have extensive experience in higher education change, are knowledgeable about Antioch College and University and have not been directly involved in any of the decision making or advocacy regarding the Board' Where are those people going to come from? Who is familiar yet not invovled? Where does Guskin work? Who is Murdocks constitutancy (not Seattle, they voted her no-confidence)? 10 point questions on the floor kids... who wants to step up? ----G From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 15:18:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 15:18:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <694847339f06975497bbb4e32ad2d5d1@www.antiochians.org> >Travis Sanford said/ > >"...Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges >as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of >the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from >him and is now outdoing the master." > > >I find this very sad. I've been thinking, the BoT is exactly right! The >college of the new century: part time faculty who have little investment >in the institution, hence no mentors for students; no job security because >there's no dependable financial backing, hence, no real academic freedom, no >willingness to challenge the status quo (much like our senators and >congressmen, letting our democracy go to hell because if they don't, they >lose their jobs); no real community (community really must include those >mentors and more interaction between generations); all preferably for >profit, creating technicians. Thinking might happen because humans are >creative, but it won't be helped along by the college. > >That's the new century, all right. Colleges going the way of the family >farm, and small business, and health care (run increasingly by large >corporations, in which providers are merely technicians. Or at least they >keep trying to reduce us to that). Because they're not AS profitable. > >Personally, I think if we don't look a little further ahead and cry out for >a return to manageable size and community, we'll pay a disastrous price. We >already are. Surely the real college of the new century needs to find a way >to MAKE a place for these things. The global crisis cries out for >leadership in this area. > >Pam Leadership requires standing tall. Nails that stand proud on my jobsite get smacked down with the 24-oz black handled framer of DOOM! Which is what has just happened to Antioch. Time to stop being the nail..... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 15:46:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 15:47:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <1ab06c461365b271c68783fe3c5899b3@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: This has been Al Guskin's M.O. since we suffered him in the early '90s. Stonewall, patronize. He created and assumed the chancellorship, further weakening an already degraded governance process. He is the grandfather of the sacking and closing of Antioch College. Alan Benard From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 15:48:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 15:48:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <1ab06c461365b271c68783fe3c5899b3@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <02c30bde7926f306863d24124e8b06c8@antiochians.org> Nice zeroing in on that, Gerry. Very good questions. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 15:52:40 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 15:52:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <02c30bde7926f306863d24124e8b06c8@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <14f66c4d2c40c11a868167bdbbebccde@www.antiochians.org> >Nice zeroing in on that, Gerry. Very good questions. Best that can be done over iron sights. Seriously though the letter is full of quite a few gems.... that was the first one that grabbed me. But mostly because my eyes are already on certain things. From Sistersara at aol.com Sun Aug 19 16:12:04 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 19 16:12:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar Message-ID: In a message dated 8/19/2007 9:56:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: I did not say there would be an order to continue operations to benefit the faculty or the Alumni or even current students. What I said was that the faculty suit demands the University abide by their contract with the faculty and also, in the interim, asks for injunction against liquidation. The faculty may be the only ones (Union reps any comment?) who have standing because there contract may have been violated. The irreperable harm argument is essentially that if the U starts selling of assets or makes other moves to mothball the college the faculty will not be able to obtain relief, i.e. relief for the faculty is not getting to keep their jobs neccesarilly it is about having their contract rights enforced and keeping the assets together that those rights are tied to. If they prove that other less drastic means were available (e.g. massive alumni movement to keep college going) it won't matter if the U has so damaged the reputation of the College that it won't matter if the faculty win or not. The contract you speak of is about the exchange of instructional services for negotiated salary and other benefits. With the college closing as of July 1, 2008 -- accepting no new students, graduating those they can, and then offering others assistance in transferring out -- the BoT has nullified the need for any instructional services. In addition, they have declared a financial status that is very similar to bankruptcy, and the labor laws of Ohio regarding an organization in financial extremis apply with perhaps a few modifications. They have declared an interest in reorganization, and possible re-opening after a period of very significant reform. They, the BoT is saying, we don't know what the future College might look like, how it will be organized, but for the immediate future we do not need any instructional services, because we will not have any students for the next few years. Assuming that proper notification is given, transition services provided and all -- I am just saying I can't find any Ohio Case Law that supports injunctive relief in a situation such as this. I do believe if the Alumni Board were organized independent of the University, they might (emphasis on might) find more favor with the matter of preserving assets, largely because many of those assets (both fabric and endowment), were originally contributed by Alumni, through campaigns organized by and among alumni for the purpose of improving the college, or in the case of scholarship funds, assisting students wishing to attend Antioch. It might be a stretch -- but I could see courts approving time limited plans about sequestering and preserving assets based on announced plans to reorganize and reopen. It might not even need a court -- such an agreement between the BoT and an independent Alumni Foundation might be mutually beneficial and possible. (but get it in writing)!!! Beyond this, I find much of interest in Al Guskin's memo posted here. First, it seems apparent that not a whole lot of thought was put into the framework for building a re-organization plan, he sees this, and is advising that an independent entity study and in fairly short order recommend a work plan for actually doing the hard work of preparing a reorganization model. It seems to me he is saying take this seriously, it is not something that gets done on the fly, you are not, once you close, responding to an immediate crisis. Recognize that you don't have such a framework, get serious about creating one. But he is also saying don't get tied down in serving constituency groups as they stand now. After all, one thing reorganization accomplishes is to reorder constituencies, -- it creates new ones, and changes the nature of old ones. Second, I see precious little in Guskin's memo, or in most of what is being posted to the forums regarding the likely or possibly even predictable structure of Higher Education in the next let's say five decades or so. Where in the vast scope of that landscape is the place for a progressive, relatively small Liberal Arts College? What is the potential constituency for it? What are the economic constraints and possible economic leverage such a College might have? What cultural trends need to be considered and accommodated in any planning for Antioch 2.0? What does new or emerging technology have to offer that could make greater accomplishment possible and yet do things cheaper and with much greater efficiency? I think the dominant tendency here to essentially cut out or eliminate any voices that recognize that the BoT does have the power to close the College down for reorganization, works against any effort to consider changed conditions and "Futures" that don't correspond to ideologically driven causes. "My Way or the Highway" eliminationist thinking pretty much makes any advocacy of honestly creating an analysis of problems, and planned change so as to re-focus, a no-no. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Sistersara at aol.com Sun Aug 19 16:20:25 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 19 16:20:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar Message-ID: In a message dated 8/19/2007 9:56:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: And so far Sally all you have to offer are statements that Ohio law and courts are mute on the issue. Well as you must admit there may be cases that are on point that don't pop up when you type "Trustees" "College" "Breach" into Google. Well, maybe you asked a labor lawyer with 40 years experience litigating such matters for an opinion about a set of contingencies? Maybe you asked the questions in a situation where a very well known Progressive Labor Historian teaching in a highly successful private college was part of the conversation. Maybe the conversation occurred at a wake and funeral for an old time progressive friend, and the talk was turning from stories of old wars to the contemporary and the future we can see, as they say, only through a glass darkly. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 16:28:41 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 16:28:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Just returned from the SE Michigan/Northern Ohio meeting Message-ID: And I don't intend to report on it as that will be done elsewhere by people who were not watching two kids at the meeting. The official report will be sent to the Alumni Board communications people. These are just personal notes with apologies for errors or omission. There were at least 37 local participants (going by the sign-in sheet) and one visitor from Yellow Springs. This is a significant percentage of the local alumni list of more than 200 gathered with two-weeks' notice by volunteers in the heart of the August vacation season. A span of 40 class-years was represented. I was impressed. Laurie White gathered video testimonials about participant's Antioch experiences. She's heading to Yellow Springs, perhaps to start a documentary. Anita Hoffman Eherenfied '71 facilitated the meeting. Tendaji Ganges and Terry Blackhawk spoke and read portions of their letters to the Board of Trustees. It was exciting to have three current students on hand. I appreciated them being there. They spoke about their shock at learning the college was closing. One said (with a smile) that this was such an Antioch thing for Antioch to do -- close while she was on co-op. Some strong questions were asked and alumni leaders answered them with the best information on hand and as much strategy as it is prudent to release (or that they've been told). Given that this was a group of intense critical-thinkers, discussion remained highly civil, yet impassioned. People wanted to know what plan "B" was, should the Alumni Board's plan to separate the college from the university be ignored or rejected by the Board of Trustees. It was pointed out that development of Plan A is still underway, and that many avenues are being considered. I offered my own opinion that the fund raising going on now may not be itself the lever that will pry the college out of the university's hands, but rather supports the search for that lever. Toward that end, please pledge something to the College Revival Fund so that you can be officially counted as a supporter of the effort to keep the college open. The size of the population of donating alumni is, in its own way, as important as the depth of its pockets. Just get your name on the list, please. There was a comment made that supportive alumni could benefit from more of a "sound bite" approach to presenting the Alumni Board's message. I hope that this is being worked on. I am looking forward to the next meeting. I understand that, in Washington DC, their third meeting was attended by 70 people. WE can and will do at least that well at our third meeting. Thank you very much to the Michigan/Northern Ohio organizing team. Alan Benard, '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 16:34:27 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Michael Casselli (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 16:34:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <14f66c4d2c40c11a868167bdbbebccde@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >>Nice zeroing in on that, Gerry. Very good questions. >Best that can be done over iron sights. > >Seriously though the letter is full of quite a few gems.... > >that was the first one that grabbed me. But mostly because my eyes are already on certain things. Here is Lester Lee's reading of that letter from Guskin: Thanks forwarding this information. l. The information confirms that Guskin is involved, deeply involved, in this mess. As usual, he is being disingenuous about his affection for the College. He hated the College when he was in Yellow Springs. He held the faculty in total disdain. In one of his articles, he boasts of having to break the College's faculty in order to change it so that it fitted into his vision of a national, dispersed, dysfunctional university. In reality, the University was his escape from anonymity. That's why he invested more energy building it up, particularly Seattle, than doing the job he was hired to do. That job was to rebuild Antioch College. An intellectually rigorous Antioch College would have made clear how intellectually shallow the University is with its adjunct faculty. The conservative US News and World Report doesn't even give the University a ranking. Moreover, the only thing Al Guskin has ever loved is Al Guskin. 2. The alumni are not seeking to re-invent Antioch College. What they want is Antioch College to be free to be itself. That is to be a learning community in which the dynamic interplay between a tenured faculty and a national student body takes place, giving birth to an ideal and the confidence which I written about. Before the invention of the university and Guskin's flawed and failed federal system, the College was a top tiered liberal arts institution. It was that when I entered in 1967 and, hopefully, it will be that again. Al Guskin knows that recent events have revealed how intellectually and morally bankrupt his leadership was. It must sicken and enrage him to no end that, each time he stands before the mirror, its says, "No, Al, you are not the fairest of them all." 3. Guskin writes about institutional memory. But the faculty, a tenured faculty, is the guardian of institutional memory in a liberal arts college. Administrators come and go but the faculty is permanent. There are moments when history and circumstance meet and produce a Horace Mann or an Arthur Morgan but most often administrators are there to play the supportive role in the relationship between faculty and students. Guskin has always believed he was the embodiment of that relationship. Nothing could be further from the truth. If he had done his job, which was to rebuild the College, institutional memory or history would hold him in greater esteem. Now, once again, he is part of the problem and not the solution. 4. There will surely be some difficult days ahead for an Antioch College freed from the oppressive and suffocating yoke of the University. But Antioch College can do it. It will take hard work, lonely days, sleepless nights but it can be done. Antioch College has many friends who understand its importance in the making and fulfilling of a liberal and progressive America. Antioch College is a meaningful concept and humanizing presence in the fabric of this troubled world. Keep the faith. Justice and truth will prevail. And goodness and mercy will celebrate a victory for humanity. Yours, Lester Also Al's preamble to his letter: Yes, please feel free to share with the Alumni Association my letter regarding my thoughts about the reinvention of Antioch College that I sent to Toni and she shared with the Board and ULC. As you know, I have always had a special love affair with the College as well as caring a lot about the University and its future. Having served as President of both the University and College for many years, I also have a great deal of knowledge and understanding of the College and University. It is for this reason that I was surprised that I was not consulted about potential actions of the Board during the last few years. I have spent the last 10 years since leaving the leadership of Antioch writing, consulting and speaking around the country on higher education change, yet the institution about which I know the most rarely asked my thoughts about key decisions. For me, the biggest problem the Board has faced in these last ten years is the lack of institutional memory and a subtle understanding of how we restructured the University in 1994 and why. The result has been that a number of decisions have been made that undermined the College and weakened the University. I believe that good intentions without the institutional memory have led to significant mistakes. This does not mean that everything should have stayed unchanged over the last ten years; in fact, if I were still in my leadership position I am sure I would have made a number of changes. But when a Board makes major decisions it must always do so fully aware of the underlying organizational dynamics of an institution and that requires a good institutional memory and understanding of why things were structured the way they were. I do hope as the Board moves forward, and as the Alumni Association makes its proposals, that it will do so with a deep understanding of the nature of the College and University. Passion is good, reason is good, but institutional memory forms the context for passion and reason to lead to effective action. Please be assured that I am willing t>>> Board, the University leadership and others to reinvent Antioch once again. This next phase will actually be the fourth reinvention of Antioch since 1921! Best wishes. Al From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 16:46:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 16:46:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >In a message dated 8/19/2007 9:56:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: > >I did not say there would be an order to continue operations to benefit the >faculty or the Alumni or even current students. What I said was that the >faculty suit demands the University abide by their contract with the faculty and >also, in the interim, asks for injunction against liquidation. The faculty >may be the only ones (Union reps any comment?) who have standing because there >contract may have been violated. The irreperable harm argument is essentially >that if the U starts selling of assets or makes other moves to mothball the >college the faculty will not be able to obtain relief, i.e. relief for the >faculty is not getting to keep their jobs neccesarilly it is about having their >contract rights enforced and keeping the assets together that those rights >are tied to. If they prove that other less drastic means were available (e.g. >massive alumni movement to keep college going) it won't matter if the U has >so damaged the reputation of the College that it won't matter if the >faculty win or not. > > > >The contract you speak of is about the exchange of instructional services >for negotiated salary and other benefits. With the college closing as of July >1, 2008 -- accepting no new students, graduating those they can, and then >offering others assistance in transferring out -- the BoT has nullified the need >for any instructional services. In addition, they have declared a financial >status that is very similar to bankruptcy, and the labor laws of Ohio >regarding an organization in financial extremis apply with perhaps a few >modifications. They have declared an interest in reorganization, and possible >re-opening after a period of very significant reform. They, the BoT is saying, we >don't know what the future College might look like, how it will be organized, >but for the immediate future we do not need any instructional services, >because we will not have any students for the next few years. Assuming that proper >notification is given, transition services provided and all -- I am just >saying I can't find any Ohio Case Law that supports injunctive relief in a >situation such as this. > >I do believe if the Alumni Board were organized independent of the >University, they might (emphasis on might) find more favor with the matter of >preserving assets, largely because many of those assets (both fabric and endowment), >were originally contributed by Alumni, through campaigns organized by and >among alumni for the purpose of improving the college, or in the case of >scholarship funds, assisting students wishing to attend Antioch. It might be a >stretch -- but I could see courts approving time limited plans about sequestering >and preserving assets based on announced plans to reorganize and reopen. It >might not even need a court -- such an agreement between the BoT and an >independent Alumni Foundation might be mutually beneficial and possible. (but >get it in writing)!!! > >Beyond this, I find much of interest in Al Guskin's memo posted here. >First, it seems apparent that not a whole lot of thought was put into the >framework for building a re-organization plan, he sees this, and is advising that an >independent entity study and in fairly short order recommend a work plan for >actually doing the hard work of preparing a reorganization model. It seems >to me he is saying take this seriously, it is not something that gets done on >the fly, you are not, once you close, responding to an immediate crisis. >Recognize that you don't have such a framework, get serious about creating one. >But he is also saying don't get tied down in serving constituency groups as >they stand now. After all, one thing reorganization accomplishes is to >reorder constituencies, -- it creates new ones, and changes the nature of old >ones. > >Second, I see precious little in Guskin's memo, or in most of what is being >posted to the forums regarding the likely or possibly even predictable >structure of Higher Education in the next let's say five decades or so. Where in >the vast scope of that landscape is the place for a progressive, relatively >small Liberal Arts College? What is the potential constituency for it? What >are the economic constraints and possible economic leverage such a College >might have? What cultural trends need to be considered and accommodated in any >planning for Antioch 2.0? What does new or emerging technology have to offer >that could make greater accomplishment possible and yet do things cheaper >and with much greater efficiency? I think the dominant tendency here to >essentially cut out or eliminate any voices that recognize that the BoT does have >the power to close the College down for reorganization, works against any >effort to consider changed conditions and "Futures" that don't correspond to >ideologically driven causes. "My Way or the Highway" eliminationist thinking >pretty much makes any advocacy of honestly creating an analysis of problems, and >planned change so as to re-focus, a no-no. > > > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Are you still talking? Why are you still talking? Quit complaining that nobody likes your ideas. As I told thelma before she quit the forum (and started lurking and spreading lies only through private email), this is a place for organizing to keep Antioch open. This is not a place for any of the following: 1) Visioning Antioch 2012 2) Creating a new Alumni Board (ie fostering a split so you can have your way)? 3) Lying... which is what you do every time you touch the keyboard 4) Basically anything you have to say. Yes the dominant trend runs against you. That is because this place has a purpose which you are actively working against. Now please... go away. Nobody likes your ideas because they are bad ideas. It's criminal to sit silent and let people spew bullshit without challenge. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 16:47:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 16:47:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <04154df50cf48e7e85670c10b6551ed0@www.antiochians.org> >>>Nice zeroing in on that, Gerry. Very good questions. >>Best that can be done over iron sights. >> >>Seriously though the letter is full of quite a few gems.... >> >>that was the first one that grabbed me. But mostly because my eyes are already on certain things. >Here is Lester Lee's reading of that letter from Guskin: >Thanks forwarding this information. > >l. The information confirms that Guskin is involved, deeply involved, in >this mess. As usual, he is being disingenuous about his affection for >the College. >He hated the College when he was in Yellow Springs. He held the faculty >in total disdain. In one of his articles, he boasts of having to break >the College's faculty in order to change it so that it fitted into his >vision of a national, dispersed, dysfunctional university. In reality, >the University was his escape from anonymity. That's why he invested >more energy building it up, particularly Seattle, than doing the job he >was hired to do. That job was to rebuild Antioch College. An >intellectually rigorous Antioch College would have made clear how >intellectually shallow the University is with its adjunct faculty. The >conservative US News and World Report doesn't even give the University a >ranking. Moreover, the only thing Al Guskin has ever loved is Al >Guskin. > >2. The alumni are not seeking to re-invent Antioch College. What they >want is Antioch College to be free to be itself. That is to be a >learning community in which the dynamic interplay between a tenured >faculty and a national student body takes place, giving birth to an >ideal and the confidence which I written about. Before the invention of >the university and Guskin's flawed and failed federal system, the >College was a top tiered liberal arts institution. It was that when I >entered in 1967 and, hopefully, it will be that again. Al Guskin knows >that recent events have revealed how intellectually and morally bankrupt >his leadership was. It must sicken and enrage him to no end that, each >time he stands before the mirror, its says, "No, Al, you are not the >fairest of them all." > >3. Guskin writes about institutional memory. But the faculty, a tenured >faculty, is the guardian of institutional memory in a liberal arts >college. Administrators come and go but the faculty is permanent. There >are moments when history and circumstance meet and produce a Horace Mann >or an Arthur Morgan but most often administrators are there to play the >supportive role in the relationship between faculty and students. >Guskin has always believed he was the >embodiment of that relationship. Nothing could be further from the >truth. If he had done his job, which was to rebuild the College, >institutional memory or history would hold him in greater esteem. Now, >once again, he is part of the problem and not the solution. > >4. There will surely be some difficult days ahead for an Antioch College >freed from the oppressive and suffocating yoke of the University. But >Antioch College can do it. It will take hard work, lonely days, >sleepless nights but it can be done. Antioch College has many friends >who understand its importance in the >making and fulfilling of a liberal and progressive America. Antioch >College is a meaningful concept and humanizing presence in the fabric of >this troubled world. > >Keep the faith. Justice and truth will prevail. And goodness and mercy >will celebrate a victory for humanity. > >Yours, > >Lester > > > >Also Al's preamble to his letter: > >Yes, please feel free to share with the Alumni Association my >letter regarding my thoughts about the reinvention of Antioch >College that I sent to Toni and she shared with the Board and ULC. > >As you know, I have always had a special love affair with the >College as well as caring a lot about the University and its >future. Having served as President of both the University and >College for many years, I also have a great deal of knowledge and >understanding of the College and University. It is for this >reason that I was surprised that I was not consulted about >potential actions of the Board during the last few years. I have >spent the last 10 years since leaving the leadership of Antioch >writing, consulting and speaking around the country on higher >education change, yet the institution about which I know the most >rarely asked my thoughts about key decisions. > >For me, the biggest problem the Board has faced in these last ten >years is the lack of institutional memory and a subtle >understanding of how we restructured the University in 1994 and >why. The result has been that a number of decisions have been >made that undermined the College and weakened the University. I >believe that good intentions without the institutional memory >have led to significant mistakes. This does not mean that >everything should have stayed unchanged over the last ten years; >in fact, if I were still in my leadership position I am sure I >would have made a number of changes. But when a Board makes >major decisions it must always do so fully aware of the >underlying organizational dynamics of an institution and that >requires a good institutional memory and understanding of why >things were structured the way they were. > >I do hope as the Board moves forward, and as the Alumni >Association makes its proposals, that it will do so with a deep >understanding of the nature of the College and University. >Passion is good, reason is good, but institutional memory forms >the context for passion and reason to lead to effective action. > >Please be assured that I am willing t>>> Board, the University leadership and others to reinvent Antioch >once again. This next phase will actually be the fourth >reinvention of Antioch since 1921! > >Best wishes. >Al Thanks... I didnt get the preamble and didnt want to share Lester Response without him saying so. Guskin's comments of course are noteworthy. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 16:50:55 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 16:50:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The following are my thoughts on separating the College or the combination of the College and McGregor from Antioch University. > >1. Presently, it is my understanding, the College receives a University subsidy of more than $1.5 million from the University. I would assume that this resource would be eliminated in any formal separation from the University. If one assumes that endowment funds generate about 4-5% per year (the typical amount for many colleges), this allocation of $1.5 million would equal a living endowmentof $30-35 million. In effect,the new entity would have to raise $30-35 million just to continue its present financial base. I'm given to understand that this "subsidy" -- which amounts to franchise fees paid by the non-College diploma mills -- stopped being paid in cash money in 2002 and is now something called an "allowable deficit." Meaning that the direct use of the "subsidy" hasn't been available for most of this decade. Funny how Al doesn't mention this, but instead spreads the misinformation on conjecture that nothing can be done without having a $30 million endowment to replace the "subsidy" income. Not to mention that the accreditation of the University units depends upon the use of the college library. Is this a "subsidy" or a fee for services? >2. Since the present licensure of Antioch University rests with the University as the only legal entity, a formal separation from Antioch University would require the new entity to be licensed to operate in the State of Ohio, which would require a formal review by the Ohio Board of Regents. Given the history of the College, some people might expect that the new entity would have little trouble getting licensed to operate in Ohio.I am not sure at all that this would be a done deal given the financial status of the Colleg basically the College as a separate entity is financially bankrupt Now, wait just a damn minute. Art Zucker told us that there is no legal entity called "Antioch Collge." There is only a legal entity called "Antioch University." How is the term "bankrupt" applicable to a unit of the corporate whole? It may be seen as failing to operate under a balanced budget withing the university as a corporation. If a separate corporation took control of Antioch's assets -- including real-estate and endowments -- then it would have capital against which it could borrow, as well as the pledged support of a growing number of alumni which could also be borrowed against. Eliminate the burden on the "separate entity" called Antioch College of financing the reported $75 million Seattle campus, and.... From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 17:07:30 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 17:07:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4f1e08d81d9913d5a45d55ed030fd913@www.antiochians.org> >>The following are my thoughts on separating the College or the combination of the College and McGregor from Antioch University. >> >>1. Presently, it is my understanding, the College receives a University subsidy of more than $1.5 million from the University. I would assume that this resource would be eliminated in any formal separation from the University. If one assumes that endowment funds generate about 4-5% per year (the typical amount for many colleges), this allocation of $1.5 million would equal a living endowmentof $30-35 million. In effect,the new entity would have to raise $30-35 million just to continue its present financial base. >I'm given to understand that this "subsidy" -- which amounts to franchise fees paid by the non-College diploma mills -- stopped being paid in cash money in 2002 and is now something called an "allowable deficit." Meaning that the direct use of the "subsidy" hasn't been available for most of this decade. Funny how Al doesn't mention this, but instead spreads the misinformation on conjecture that nothing can be done without having a $30 million endowment to replace the "subsidy" income. > >Not to mention that the accreditation of the University units depends upon the use of the college library. Is this a "subsidy" or a fee for services? Right... but that subsidy doesnt exist at all even as an "allowable deficit. If you look at the documents at (drum roll please) www.theantiochpapers.org you will see this: 1) "Depreciation" is in execess of 1.5 million last year and over 1.4 million projected for this year before the announcement. 2) "Subsidy from overhead" is listed in the college's budget as -740,000 3) "Intercampus agreements and university conferences" is listed as -183,000 So the Depreication neatly cancels the "Allowable deficit" IN CASH. Tally the rest up and we are paying OUT to the University almost a million dollars. Thus without the university the college would be $2.4 million richer PER YEAR. 5th grade math Dr. Guskin... 5th grade math... ----G From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 17:47:10 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 17:47:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Quit complaining that nobody likes your ideas. As I told thelma before she quit the forum (and started lurking and spreading lies only through private email), this is a place for organizing to keep Antioch open. > >This is not a place for any of the following: > >1) Visioning Antioch 2012 > >2) Creating a new Alumni Board (ie fostering a split so you can have your way)? > >3) Lying... which is what you do every time you touch the keyboard > >4) Basically anything you have to say. > >Yes the dominant trend runs against you. That is because this place has a purpose which you are actively working against. Now please... go away. > >Nobody likes your ideas because they are bad ideas. It's criminal to sit silent and let people spew bullshit without challenge. Gerry, unfortunately, you're writing this on Alumni-chat, which is bridged to our forums, but not actually a part of them, and therefore not a part of the Revival effort. Which is one reason among many I think we should get rid of the bridge. From Sistersara at aol.com Sun Aug 19 17:47:50 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 19 17:47:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [SaveAntioch] Has the Lawsuit preemptedalumniefforts? Message-ID: In a message dated 8/18/2007 9:09:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, sercle@sbcglobal.net writes: Do you suppose yeast lady might be interested in growing a department/program at Antioch? Barrie Dallas Grenell '65 I rather doubt it. She is about my age and is gradually moving toward retirement. But the Agricultural group that licensed her patents is now sitting pretty given all the incentives in the new Ag Bill coming out this year which supports the development of bio-fuel significantly based on Agricultural waste products. She heads a lab in the Ag Co-op, has lots of little research assistants working the yeast modification game, and she is much in demand by small town leaders, farm organizations, state legislators and all the rest. As one might imagine, she is rather turned off of the academic world where she spent about 24 years without any economic security or faculty rank, trying to keep an odd corner in various labs where she could culture her yeasts. Ag Co-op's are interested in this because it locally produces clean energy for local consumption, as well as fertilizer -- and if organized properly can contribute to the economic base for small agricultural communities. It will never be "THE SOLUTION" -- but it may make lots of towns in flyover land a lot better off. I suspect there are literally thousands of people out there with similar seemingly slightly nutty ideas that run a bit counter to the dominant paradigm, and just need a little support at the right time. Innovation doesn't necessarily come from the leaders in industry or the academy. It certainly doesn't come from University Administrators who are afraid to support something that casts a little shadow on Big Oil and the politics that are fashioned around that approach. (and who then worship at the icon of Academic Freedom.) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 18:06:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 18:06:38 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Quit complaining that nobody likes your ideas. As I told thelma before she quit the forum (and started lurking and spreading lies only through private email), this is a place for organizing to keep Antioch open. >> >>This is not a place for any of the following: >> >>1) Visioning Antioch 2012 >> >>2) Creating a new Alumni Board (ie fostering a split so you can have your way)? >> >>3) Lying... which is what you do every time you touch the keyboard >> >>4) Basically anything you have to say. >> >>Yes the dominant trend runs against you. That is because this place has a purpose which you are actively working against. Now please... go away. >> >>Nobody likes your ideas because they are bad ideas. It's criminal to sit silent and let people spew bullshit without challenge. >Gerry, unfortunately, you're writing this on Alumni-chat, which is bridged to our forums, but not actually a part of them, and therefore not a part of the Revival effort. Which is one reason among many I think we should get rid of the bridge. yeah... I know... And nobody here even wanted to step up and make policy to deal with the problems in the vision forum... but hey... a man can dream... From marklp2 at comcast.net Sun Aug 19 18:35:29 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Sun Aug 19 18:35:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007501c7e2b1$3f73f040$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> I spoke with Al Guskin about my ideas for reframing Antioch as a residential undergraduate program dedicating to training, in an amalgam of liberal arts and professional studies, students as "professional social change agents." In other words, eventually linking students directly into permanent jobs as well as coops at environmental and progressive change organizations in the nonprofit sector. He was very supportive of this approach. Joan Straumanis (remember her?)in her Presidential Convocation Address in 2002 proposed a similar approach when she called for an Institute for Social Change to be developed at the College. This is what she said, "I'm thinking about an institute?an organization somewhat like the Environmental group? that develops expertise and experience in progressive social change, an organization devoted to the history, theory, and practice of progressive social change. Courses as well as co?op jobs, research projects, and community service projects would be registered in the Institute. I am picturing students perhaps becoming members of this institute, and then being certified as skilled change agents? and that certification then appearing on their college transcript. In addition, the institute would identify curricular gaps, support course development to fill those gaps, provide research support, and build student?faculty research collaborations for research projects in social activism and social change. This institute would reassure those concerned about the academic rigor of activist activities. I am also picturing a lecture series and campus events, travel and field work, as well as collaboration with Antioch University graduate programs in social change and activism. I would expect there to be permanent co?op partners in the Institute?nonprofit organizations to give students practical experience with social change. This is an entrepreneurial model. It is extremely fundable. And I want a proposal to carry with me to various foundations this summer." Why didn't this happen? Why didn't the Board support this? Why did Joan have to leave? Mark P. '71 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Olsen Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 11:23 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Travis Sanford said/ "...Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master." No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From davidallenusa at yahoo.com Sun Aug 19 19:49:42 2007 From: davidallenusa at yahoo.com (YAZZ ALLEN) Date: Sun Aug 19 19:49:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: <20070819201220.F1CAA611E11D@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <585561.26632.qm@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> August 19, 07 Hello from Yazz (David Roger) Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com I read one writer on the Antioch College alumni chatline today (Aug. 19, 07) praising Alan Guskin! Right or wrong? Wrong! He's (Alan Guskin's) the guy who really started the whole legal mess Antioch is in .... he took the CEO job with him to Seattle WA and left the "Antioch President" job much less important than when it was first given to him. He was not anyone wonderful or blameless, and I wince when I see writers who say otherwise. I think it's very important to keep a hit list about who the bad guys are in the present crisis. Some people (and the ENTIRE AU BOT is among these) should, to quote the late Rodney Dangerfield, "get no respect." Dr. Alan Guskin, former Antioch College president and AU BOT "Chancellor," should be included on this list, is one of them, right along side of his good friend, Art Zucker '55, curent AU BOT chairman, and his other good friend, Bob Krinsky '57, former AU BOT chairman (Zucker and Krinksy are both millionaires acting to support their class). If the dust settle and Antioch College is STILL alive and not closed down, the ENTIRE AU BOT should be identified FOREVER as the villains who set the current crisis in motion. A NEW Antioch charter should include provisions which state that Antioch College can never and will never be shut down EVER by AU BOT members for ANY reasons, including the terrible crime of "poverty." ALSO, the charter should defame every single one of the no-conscience AU BOT members who gave us all what we face today, forbid any possible re-appointment or continued status as AU BOT members for any person part of the sell-out of Antioch College. The "bad guy list" is the same as the list of AU BOT members who voted or were present for the infamous vote of June 9, 07 which tried to sell Antioch College, Ohio, down the river. Kick 'em out. Give 'em no glory. NEVER invite 'em back. If by some unlikely chance the good guys end up winning the current battle, and "Role Of Honor" identifying who started the mess we all face at the current time (Aug. 2007) should be chipped in stone, the names "Alan Guskin, Bob Krinsky" should be included alongside of all 22 AU BOT members who made the current closedown crisis what it is, and also those who failed, due to lack of conscience, to object publically to what happened...and that includes every single member of the AU BOT who sold Antioch College down the river on June 2, 2007. STOP "making nice" with the likes of Alan Guskin or his fellow dorks, which certainly includes every single member (no exceptions) of the AU BOT now in office or in office on June 8, 07, a date which, to quote FDR, "will live in infamy." Yazz (David Roger) Allen, Antioch CollegeAlumnus alumni-chat-request@w3.antioch.edu wrote: Send Alumni-chat mailing list submissions to alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to alumni-chat-request@w3.antioch.edu You can reach the person managing the list at alumni-chat-owner@w3.antioch.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Alumni-chat digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (Ann Frye) 2. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) 3. ambivalence (Pam Olsen) 4. Re: mother of incoming freshman (shel623 (shel623@aol.com)) 5. small colleges (Pam Olsen) 6. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) 7. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) 8. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) 9. Re: small colleges (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) 10. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) 11. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) 12. Re: Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) 13. Re: AB response to webinar (Sistersara@aol.com) From: Ann Frye To: Alumni Chat List Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:44:31 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit Jeez. Did Guskin teach Karl Rove, or learn from him. Ann >>>Imagine how much of a head ache we all would not have now. >>>I definitely believe hind sight 20 20 that this decision by Al Guskin, thanks for saving the college, was a mistake. >>>I think that no one involved had the foresight to see the mistake coming from the Board of Trustees. >>>How and when did Board of Trustees ever have connections to military intelligence before now? >>>THe new parking lot for the new Mcgregor is open. I drove around it last night. >>>It was a wonderful drive in Yellow Springs if you get the chance. I guess our pedestrian draw bridge like side walk to the college is done now across our man made mini lakes. >>>call me if you need a friend >>>9373019064 >>>Can part of our law suit give our old powers back to the president to succeed Steve and Will someone please ask Al to step in and help again he is a genius and on faculty for the PHD program that travels all the universities. >>>Thanks to Scott from Antiochiana for the info. >>>anyone watch American Blackout >>>check it out it has congresswoman Mckinney the truth sayer and savior of american government >>>exposing overt covert racism from our current administration both to buy the presidency of our country and to marginalize already victims of institutionalized racism in ways that look like pre integration america >>>civil rights violations >>>the closing of antioch another one >>>i will try and speak up and out more in here please encourage me >>>jude >>>www.myspace.com/judelogandemers >>>www.myspace.com/mrmcjudelogandemers >>> >>> >>Jude, I never understand what you are talking about. Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master. >> >> >actually Travis Guskin just played his hand and he is pro-badguys all the way. The following is an open letter he sent to Toni Murdock. > >I cant comment right now as I have to go vommit. > >Begin pile of Bullshit: > >Toni >It was good seeing you and being able to spend some concentrated time >talking. The dinner was great and it was good seeing KJ again. Thanks so >much for hosting us just a day after you returned from your trip. > >I felt very comfortable talking with you about Antioch and sharing some of >my perspectives. As I said on commencement day in the Inn, it reminded me >of our early discussions at Antioch Seattle and it felt good! Jon's >comment to me after the dinner was that he was impressed by comfort of the >two of us sitting on the couch talking as concerned peers about an institution we care so much about. I felt that way. > >At the Inn you asked for my perspective on some of the discussions >swirling around the University following the June 7 decision to suspend >operations of the College.I have reflected a good deal about the issues >and the following are my perspectives.I hope they are helpful to you. > >I, of course, would be willing to continue our discussion of these issues and to share them with whomever you would like. > >Al > >Planning for the Reinvention of Antioch College???Managing the Transition > >1. Transitions are always painful and difficult, whether personal or organizational. William Bridges, probably the most quoted author on transitions, writes about transition as a three-stage process???the ending, the neutral zone and new beginning. He emphasizes, I believe correctly, that endings are important to complete before one jumps into new beginnings and the neutral zone is an important stage between ending and new beginnings. In the neutral zone an individual or an organization struggles in this time and space and sometimes bounces back and forth between the endings and new beginning before fully embracing the future. > >a. The next few months at Antioch require a focus on dealing with the decision to effectively close the College in June, 2008. This was a difficult and painful decision and the process for doing it has been a bit problematic. It has also seemed as if many individuals involved in the decision didn't fully appreciate the impact such a decision would have beyond the College and University. But the decision has been made and in practical and real terms is irreversible, no matter what pressure may be brought to bear to change it. I believe this strongly because College students have already begun seeking alternative colleges to attend, parents and students are not likely to apply to a College which announced it is closing and especially one which is in such bad shape financially and physically or to trust that the College will stay open if the decision is changed. In effect, while there may be some hardy souls who will want to stay or continue at the College, they will be few in n > umber >and will generate even less tuition revenue than has been the case in the last year. My guess is that some of the strongest advocates for reversing the decision will not be willing to send their own children to the College! > >Therefore, it is essential that the ending i.e., suspending College operations must not be a muddied process; it is very important that this ending be clearly enunciated so that the future can be pursued. > >b. But, the reality of the neutral zone is that some people will still struggle with the closing of the College and there will be continuing actions occurs. Nevertheless, there must be a strong effort and demonstrable actions from the University leadership to fulfill the commitment to reinvent the College in the next four years. > >2. Facing the reality that you and the Board will be subjected to intense pressure, uncivil behavior and unrealistic demands must be, I believe, accepted and responded to with patience and listening but also with great perseverance regarding an intense focus on the University's assertion that it is deeply committed to reinvent the College for the 21st century. > >3. While accepting the pain of these pressures, I believe you as Chancellor must begin the deliberative process of moving to the future and a new beginning. I strongly recommend that within the next few months you establish a Chancellor-appointed Task Force that will make recommendations to you regarding the parameters of the planning process. This Task Force will NOT plan the reinvention of the College but will deliberate and deal only with the process that should be followed in planning the reinvention of the College and the basic assumptions of that planning effort. This Task Force should take no more than 6 months to complete its work.It should be a relatively small and not be based on representation from constituencies; and it should be composed of senior people who have extensive experience in higher education change, are knowledgeable about Antioch College and University and have not been directly involved in any of the decision making or advocacy regarding the Board' > s >decision to suspend operations at the College. They should be people who are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning effort and free to offer you the best advice possible. > >4. I would urge that all other planning activities that could impinge upon the work of this Task Force be suspended until you receive its recommendations. One example of a process that should be suspended is any discussion of changes in the governance structure of the University. The Task Force charge should include giving you recommendations regarding the assumptions of how the College might be governed and how the planning to consider any governance changes should be conducted. I believe it is imperative that changes in governance NOT be decided upon until and only after the new vision for the College and its place in the University are clearer. In the meantime, I see no reason why campus advisory boards can't become more fully engaged in their local/regional fundraising. > >5. Finally, I would like to strongly caution people regarding the idea to separate the College and University. This is one of the key reasons why I feel so strongly about not making any decisions regarding governance at this time. > >In the last few weeks I have heard a number of proposals regarding the reinvention of Antioch College over the next 4-5 years. One that seems to be advocated by a number of College alumni and faculty as well as some College administrators-- is that the rebuilding of the College should or must include a separation of the College from the University and integrating the College and Antioch McGregor into one unit. Following our recent discussion at the PhD residency, I have been reflecting on this notion and would like to share my thoughts. > >Before discussing these thoughts, I should emphasize that for some time I have advocated to anyone who would listen that it would be wise to integrate the College and McGregor into one unit, that would either be called Antioch University Yellow Springs or just simply Antioch time we made the decision in 1988 to integrate the Weekend College which we started a year after I came (in 1986) and the IMA (started in the early 1980s I believe)--both of which were administered directly by the University administration--into a new campus which was called the School for Adult and Experiential Learning and in 1990 underwent a name change and became McGregor. > >The following are my thoughts on separating the College or the combination of the College and McGregor from Antioch University. > >1. Presently, it is my understanding, the College receives a University subsidy of more than $1.5 million from the University. I would assume that this resource would be eliminated in any formal separation from the University. If one assumes that endowment funds generate about 4-5% per year (the typical amount for many colleges), this allocation of $1.5 million would equal a living endowmentof $30-35 million. In effect,the new entity would have to raise $30-35 million just to continue its present financial base. > >2. Since the present licensure of Antioch University rests with the University as the only legal entity, a formal separation from Antioch University would require the new entity to be licensed to operate in the State of Ohio, which would require a formal review by the Ohio Board of Regents. Given the history of the College, some people might expect that the new entity would have little trouble getting licensed to operate in Ohio.I am not sure at all that this would be a done deal given the financial status of the Colleg basically the College as a separate entity is financially bankrupt and this could be a stumbling block to any agreement by the Ohio Board of Regents to quickly license the College. The combination of the College and McGregor at this juncture will not assure that the combined entity will be seen as financially viable the new McGregor building will likely be seen as a significant drain on its future resources thereby limiting the benefits of utilizing McGregor >resources to help the College and the combined entity. Within this context, the Ohio Board of Regents might well push for the rebuilding of the College to remain within the University. At the most, I cannot imagine the Regents approving anything more than provisional certification. In addition, I know from my experience with the Ohio Board of Regents and its staff the degree to which they support the University functioning as a whole entity; they strongly believe in the University's strengths and have encouraged us to do more university-wide programming, not less. > >3. Accreditation of a combined College and McGregor by the North Central Association might even be more problematic than state licensure. The NCA has for a number of years questioned the financial and enrollment viability of the College and has called for significant changes in the operations of the College. I would guess that serious changes at the College and fund raising and the existence of substantial cash funds would be required to justify accrediting the new entity given the fact that the combined College and McGregor would be in serious deficit with substantial future obligations. I would assume that the NCA would encourage the University to continue to plan the rebuilding of the College. They might be open to some new governance relationship within the context of the University which might have the potential to give the new entity and the University as a whole some financial stability. > >4. There has been much talk a amounts of money e.g., $100 million-- to create a College independent of the University. From 1987-1993, I was involved in a fund raising campaign for the College that raised $50 million about one third of it was deferred or represented the annual gifts over the six-year period. While there may be some new wealthy people who can give large amounts of money, these individuals have yet to come forward. Also, wealthy people do not usually give large amounts of money to desperate institutions and if they do it is usually because they have a great deal of confidence in a strong leader with a powerful vision of the future. People of wealth see their gifts as an investment and want to be assured that they will get a psychic return on their investment. In any major fund raising campaign the rule of thumb is that 90% of the money comes from 10% of the people. Given what I know, I have not seen any indication that large amounts of money can be raised at t > he >present time. The present campaign is indicative of my sense; a good deal of the money for this campaign was contributed by two people/families that were major benefactors in the 1987-1993 campaign. I wonder whether wealthy people would be encouraged by the reality that in the last two years the large contributions of the two families that have generously supported Antioch over the last three decades have been used to fund the annual deficits of the College. > >I should also add that small gifts of $1-5,000 are helpful annual fund gifts, but it takes 1000 gifts of $1000 to equal a million dollars. So, well meaning alumni who plan to increase their level of giving and are not people of significant wealth will have difficulty just replacing the lost annual allocation from the University to the College, let alone make a huge dent in the College's future needs. Similarly, Foundation grants are not commonly made to fund basic operations of an institution. Most grants fund specific programs that they expect the receiving institution will fund at the end of the grant period. There are exceptions to this but they are also program specific. > >There are some legitimate alternatives to the present College-University relationship that would alter the present governance process or structure of the University in order to give the College greater autonomy and potentially more stability. None of the alternatives would be easy to implement although they can be implemented. For this reason I would urge you and the Board to go slowly on the governance issues. As you well know, changes in governance processes and structures are fraught with political and organizational minefields that are not always apparent when such decisions are made quickly. Right now the key issue is reinventing the College for the 21st century and not dealing with demands for governance changes, or external consultants ideas about what may or may not work or the desire of new campus presidents for their own boards. All these governance matters can consume the energies of the university especially the energy and focus of the Chancellor and create more >complexity and uncertainty at a time of considerable crisis over suspending the operations of the College. > >I hope you find these initial reflections helpful and I certainly be glad to discuss them with you or others further if appropriate. > > Alan E. Guskin > Distinguished University Professor, > Ph.D Program in Leadership and Change, > University President Emeritus, > Antioch University > 805 Dayton S E-mail: aguskin@phd.antioch.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > > From: "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:51:42 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit >Jeez. Did Guskin teach Karl Rove, or learn from him. Ann Taught him. Now that Rove is out of a job I'm sure he'll be replacing Bloch as president in 2012. From: Pam Olsen To: Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:59:07 -0700 Subject: [Alumni-chat] ambivalence John Hevelin wrote: Pam, I think we attended Antioch at the same time, although I don't have any memory of you (other div?). One of the reasons I decided to attend Antioch was because it didn't seem have a lot of the immature student stuff going on that seemed to occur at other schools -- panty raids, binge drinking, fraternity/sorority hazing, all of the hoopla surrounding sporting events, stuff that still goes on today and occasionally leads to death. I remember a friend of mine from high school who graduated a few years ahead of me and who went to Union College in Schenectady. His descriptions of the hazing inflicted on incoming students appalled me. The demonstrations at Gegner's barbershop the spring before I started Antioch in the summer of 1964 made the news in my small town in upstate New York, and my classmates had fun teasing me with remarks like, "Still going to that commie school, Hevelin?" You bet I was. Students demonstrating to end segregation seemed more adult to me than fr at parties and hazing. I found most of my classmates at Antioch to be very adult and very mature. There were some exceptions, but by and large, it was a comfortable community. I have been friends with some Antiochians for over forty years. I never felt physically or emotionally threatened. It was an exciting and challenging and stimulating place to be. I grieve over the impending closure. Hi John, I don't remember you, either. I think I was on B-div most of the time....I changed near the end after a nine month job. Antioch was a big place then. I remember deciding on Antioch for many of the same reasons, plus the co-op program, the opportunity to travel around the country, the honor system, and community government. It seemed like a much more sensible place than other schools. And I also found it to be comfortable in many ways. Even though I had some struggles there, I would not have considered going anyplace else. I met a guy from Kalamazoo College on a co-op, and he told me recently (we're still friends) that one reason he never proposed was that there was no way I would consider leaving Antioch to be with him. I mean gheezh! when I visited him at Kalamazoo, the only place on campus we could be alone was in the middle of the tennis court! The environment there was stifflingly controlling. The more I listen to people and think about kids today, the more I realize it was mostly the conservative community that I grew up in (Utah in the 50s), not having the background in critical thinking, not having been exposed to many of the books that most students had read in high school, and not being able to handle the quantity of work because of that and being ADHD that made it overwhelming for me in some ways. It probably didn't help that my parents were involved in their own problems and were no support. They didn't have a clue what kinds of challenges Antioch presented, and wouldn't have known how to help if they did. THe sexual revolution didn't help. That was much easier for boys than for girls, of course, many of whom struggled with the constant pressure and the possible consequences. I for one cheered when the girls finally stood up to the boys and said "No means NO!" Of course, today's kids have been dealing with the issues of drugs and sex since Jr. High! So these things are probably not as troubling to them by the time they get to college. The thing about Antioch, for me, is this: there is no way to predict how students will do there, and how they will fare with the variety of stimulating challenges. Another one: Ruth Churchill told me my fifth year that she wasn't convinced that moving so much was good for Antiochians. "You learn not to love." And I realized that on one of my last jobs, after two months, a gal I was working with said to me, "What is WRONG with you!?" "What do you mean?" "I've been trying to make friends with you for two months. I've invited you to do things several times. You always say no! Why are you doing that? I want to be your friend!" And I realized that I wasn't making friends anymore because it was so hard to leave them. I had friends scattered all over the country. I got over it and she became a dear friend. sorry I have such a plodding mind, but my point is that, typically, as in my case, the students who are admitted to Antioch have been, to that point, very successful in their lives. And suddenly they are presented with many new challenges, from every angle, all at once. There is no way to predict how they will manage them. Some students seem to manage them very well, and others struggle a LOT! I loved Antioch. AND I would be greatly comforted about sending kids I know there if I knew that there is some kind of mechanism now to monitor with them how they are managing them all. I KNOW it wasn't just me, since I know how many of my friends (not all, but many) and acquaintances struggled with depression and even suicidal ideation, even those who were managing the academics well. If there are still suicides, if there are still students who go through severe depressions, it's still happening. I know there are suicides at every college, but it should not be happening. Not in any college. But each college needs to take responsibiltiy for the kinds of challenges their students are dealing with in their environment, and help them. "Go somewhere else" is not a solution. It would not be difficult to build in sufficient professional counseling opportunities, as part of the progam, to help students with the normal, but nevertheless serious, growing pains of finding their way through the maze of opportunities and challenges. There was a counseling service at Antioch when I was there. I never met the counselors, barely knew their names, had no clue how to access them, never knew anyone who went to them, until McQueen came in about '66. He was more visible and more accessible, for some reason, and quickly became extremely busy. Many students were starving for some real help. There was not enough help for all the students who needed it. Academic advisors, co-op advisors, preceptoral fellows, none of them really had the background or time to help us integrate it all. So I guess that's my soapbox. I hope there is a vigorous and very accessible and not overwhelmed counseling service at Antioch now, and a mechanism whereby all students who are struggling can voice their struggles and find a genuine listening ear to help them work through them. The Inner College helped themselves a lot by having a lot of meetings and discussing what they were struggling with, and I think those meetings really provided them with a lot of support. Nevermind the structural changes that came about as a result, it was the discussions that were the real mechanism. (I've also kept in touch with many of my Antioch friends. The things we shared were so central to who we are. When Peter and I were married (after meeting at Antioch 33 years earlier), several of them came to our wedding in '98. It's been great to keep in touch and know how people's lives are unfolding. I don't know about your friends, but mine are all out there winning victories for humanity!) Pam From: "shel623 (shel623@aol.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:07:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman >I know--it seems that most parents aren't even aware of these forums. Does anyone know of a way to get them involved? Students are on facebook--and seem connected to each other. One thing to remember--lots of students do transfer--I've had friends with kids who were wretched freshman year in stable ivy league situations, etc. Unfortunately for Antioch students it seems to be necessary, but I think other colleges will reach out to them. i still think it is strange that there aren't more postings about the incoming class. I guess we shall see on the 23rd. As for kids in ivies transferring--of course, it happens all the time. But they don't ENTER their freshman year knowing that they will have to transfer--knowing that there have been layoffs, cutbacks, lots of political stuff flying back and forth, knowing that the program they applied for no longer exists, etc. I would like to think of these kids as pioneers and hope they will have somehting to tell their grancchildren about. I also hope that the nature of their circumstances will create strong bonds among the faculty and students. I hope these kids will travel to other schools together and research other opportunities together. I hope to meet you on the 23rd. (I will be the one wearing the knee immobilizer!!) Shelley From: Pam Olsen To: Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:22:57 -0700 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Travis Sanford said/ "...Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master." I find this very sad. I've been thinking, the BoT is exactly right! The college of the new century: part time faculty who have little investment in the institution, hence no mentors for students; no job security because there's no dependable financial backing, hence, no real academic freedom, no willingness to challenge the status quo (much like our senators and congressmen, letting our democracy go to hell because if they don't, they lose their jobs); no real community (community really must include those mentors and more interaction between generations); all preferably for profit, creating technicians. Thinking might happen because humans are creative, but it won't be helped along by the college. That's the new century, all right. Colleges going the way of the family farm, and small business, and health care (run increasingly by large corporations, in which providers are merely technicians. Or at least they keep trying to reduce us to that). Because they're not AS profitable. Personally, I think if we don't look a little further ahead and cry out for a return to manageable size and community, we'll pay a disastrous price. We already are. Surely the real college of the new century needs to find a way to MAKE a place for these things. The global crisis cries out for leadership in this area. Pam From: "praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:36:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit Didn't exactly praise her decision... From: "praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:50:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit >Didn't exactly praise her decision... Not that it was the chancellor's decision alone. But still, I read no praise for the decision in the letter. From: "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:13:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit >>Didn't exactly praise her decision... >Not that it was the chancellor's decision alone. But still, I read no praise for the decision in the letter. Guskin was never big on passing out praise. However this document is revealing in that now he supports the Zucker-Murdock position and had this be an open letter in an attempt to shore up that position (which is weakening). This letter is aimed at re-uniting the BoT (which is divided) and pushing fate accompli. It's also instructive who he seems to intend to get as consultants. Reading between the lines here: >3. While accepting the pain of these pressures, I believe you as Chancellor must begin the deliberative process of moving to the future and a new beginning. I strongly recommend that within the next few months you establish a Chancellor-appointed Task Force that will make recommendations to you regarding the parameters of the planning process. This Task Force will NOT plan the reinvention of the College but will deliberate and deal only with the process that should be followed in planning the reinvention of the College and the basic assumptions of that planning effort. This Task Force should take no more than 6 months to complete its work.It should be a relatively small and not be based on representation from constituencies; and it should be composed of senior people who have extensive experience in higher education change, are knowledgeable about Antioch College and University and have not been directly involved in any of the decision making or advocacy regarding the Board ' Where are those people going to come from? Who is familiar yet not invovled? Where does Guskin work? Who is Murdocks constitutancy (not Seattle, they voted her no-confidence)? 10 point questions on the floor kids... who wants to step up? ----G From: "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:18:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] small colleges >Travis Sanford said/ > >"...Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges >as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of >the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from >him and is now outdoing the master." > > >I find this very sad. I've been thinking, the BoT is exactly right! The >college of the new century: part time faculty who have little investment >in the institution, hence no mentors for students; no job security because >there's no dependable financial backing, hence, no real academic freedom, no >willingness to challenge the status quo (much like our senators and >congressmen, letting our democracy go to hell because if they don't, they >lose their jobs); no real community (community really must include those >mentors and more interaction between generations); all preferably for >profit, creating technicians. Thinking might happen because humans are >creative, but it won't be helped along by the college. > >That's the new century, all right. Colleges going the way of the family >farm, and small business, and health care (run increasingly by large >corporations, in which providers are merely technicians. Or at least they >keep trying to reduce us to that). Because they're not AS profitable. > >Personally, I think if we don't look a little further ahead and cry out for >a return to manageable size and community, we'll pay a disastrous price. We >already are. Surely the real college of the new century needs to find a way >to MAKE a place for these things. The global crisis cries out for >leadership in this area. > >Pam Leadership requires standing tall. Nails that stand proud on my jobsite get smacked down with the 24-oz black handled framer of DOOM! Which is what has just happened to Antioch. Time to stop being the nail..... From: "alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:46:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit This has been Al Guskin's M.O. since we suffered him in the early '90s. Stonewall, patronize. He created and assumed the chancellorship, further weakening an already degraded governance process. He is the grandfather of the sacking and closing of Antioch College. Alan Benard From: "praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:48:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit Nice zeroing in on that, Gerry. Very good questions. From: "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:52:40 -0500 Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit >Nice zeroing in on that, Gerry. Very good questions. Best that can be done over iron sights. Seriously though the letter is full of quite a few gems.... that was the first one that grabbed me. But mostly because my eyes are already on certain things. From: Sistersara@aol.com To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:12:04 EDT Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In a message dated 8/19/2007 9:56:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: I did not say there would be an order to continue operations to benefit the faculty or the Alumni or even current students. What I said was that the faculty suit demands the University abide by their contract with the faculty and also, in the interim, asks for injunction against liquidation. The faculty may be the only ones (Union reps any comment?) who have standing because there contract may have been violated. The irreperable harm argument is essentially that if the U starts selling of assets or makes other moves to mothball the college the faculty will not be able to obtain relief, i.e. relief for the faculty is not getting to keep their jobs neccesarilly it is about having their contract rights enforced and keeping the assets together that those rights are tied to. If they prove that other less drastic means were available (e.g. massive alumni movement to keep college going) it won't matter if the U has so damaged the reputation of the College that it won't matter if the faculty win or not. The contract you speak of is about the exchange of instructional services for negotiated salary and other benefits. With the college closing as of July 1, 2008 -- accepting no new students, graduating those they can, and then offering others assistance in transferring out -- the BoT has nullified the need for any instructional services. In addition, they have declared a financial status that is very similar to bankruptcy, and the labor laws of Ohio regarding an organization in financial extremis apply with perhaps a few modifications. They have declared an interest in reorganization, and possible re-opening after a period of very significant reform. They, the BoT is saying, we don't know what the future College might look like, how it will be organized, but for the immediate future we do not need any instructional services, because we will not have any students for the next few years. Assuming that proper notification is given, transition services provided and all -- I am just saying I can't find any Ohio Case Law that supports injunctive relief in a situation such as this. I do believe if the Alumni Board were organized independent of the University, they might (emphasis on might) find more favor with the matter of preserving assets, largely because many of those assets (both fabric and endowment), were originally contributed by Alumni, through campaigns organized by and among alumni for the purpose of improving the college, or in the case of scholarship funds, assisting students wishing to attend Antioch. It might be a stretch -- but I could see courts approving time limited plans about sequestering and preserving assets based on announced plans to reorganize and reopen. It might not even need a court -- such an agreement between the BoT and an independent Alumni Foundation might be mutually beneficial and possible. (but get it in writing)!!! Beyond this, I find much of interest in Al Guskin's memo posted here. First, it seems apparent that not a whole lot of thought was put into the framework for building a re-organization plan, he sees this, and is advising that an independent entity study and in fairly short order recommend a work plan for actually doing the hard work of preparing a reorganization model. It seems to me he is saying take this seriously, it is not something that gets done on the fly, you are not, once you close, responding to an immediate crisis. Recognize that you don't have such a framework, get serious about creating one. But he is also saying don't get tied down in serving constituency groups as they stand now. After all, one thing reorganization accomplishes is to reorder constituencies, -- it creates new ones, and changes the nature of old ones. Second, I see precious little in Guskin's memo, or in most of what is being posted to the forums regarding the likely or possibly even predictable structure of Higher Education in the next let's say five decades or so. Where in the vast scope of that landscape is the place for a progressive, relatively small Liberal Arts College? What is the potential constituency for it? What are the economic constraints and possible economic leverage such a College might have? What cultural trends need to be considered and accommodated in any planning for Antioch 2.0? What does new or emerging technology have to offer that could make greater accomplishment possible and yet do things cheaper and with much greater efficiency? I think the dominant tendency here to essentially cut out or eliminate any voices that recognize that the BoT does have the power to close the College down for reorganization, works against any effort to consider changed conditions and "Futures" that don't correspond to ideologically driven causes. "My Way or the Highway" eliminationist thinking pretty much makes any advocacy of honestly creating an analysis of problems, and planned change so as to re-focus, a no-no. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... Read my writing about the 2007 Antioch College Crisis on WWW.AntiRecord.Org, oldest Antioch College interest/watchdog website (est. 1998) "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 19:51:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 19:51:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>I know--it seems that most parents aren't even aware of these forums. Does anyone know of a way to get them involved? Students are on facebook--and seem connected to each other. One thing to remember--lots of students do transfer--I've had friends with kids who were wretched freshman year in stable ivy league situations, etc. Unfortunately for Antioch students it seems to be necessary, but I think other colleges will reach out to them. >i still think it is strange that there aren't more postings about the incoming class. I guess we shall see on the 23rd. > >As for kids in ivies transferring--of course, it happens all the time. But they don't ENTER their freshman year knowing that they will have to transfer--knowing that there have been layoffs, cutbacks, lots of political stuff flying back and forth, knowing that the program they applied for no longer exists, etc. I would like to think of these kids as pioneers and hope they will have somehting to tell their grancchildren about. I also hope that the nature of their circumstances will create strong bonds among the faculty and students. I hope these kids will travel to other schools together and research other opportunities together. > >I hope to meet you on the 23rd. (I will be the one wearing the knee immobilizer!!) > >Shelley I'll look for you--I'll have a worried expression and my daughter a rose tatoo. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 21:39:12 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 21:39:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <4f1e08d81d9913d5a45d55ed030fd913@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <14070c9c2ebc65e51334559db739f666@antiochians.org> Guskin proposes a task force that should >not be based on representation from constituencies... but it should be composed of senior people who... are knowledgeable about Antioch College and the University..; should be people who are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning effort and free to offer you the best advice possible. Why would anyone in power at Antioch distrust the wisdom and counsel of those about them, particularly underlings in the organizational hierarchy, and instead receive advice to trust in the wisdom of strangers and hired mercenaries? Guskin also allows why he feels >so strongly about not making any decisions regarding governance at this time. ...wealthy people do not usually give large amounts of money to desperate institutions *and if they do it is usually because they have a great deal of confidence in a strong leader with a powerful vision of the future.* From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 21:41:28 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 21:41:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <14070c9c2ebc65e51334559db739f666@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Guskin proposes a task force that should > >>not be based on representation from constituencies... but it should be composed of senior people who... are knowledgeable about Antioch College and the University..; should be people who are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning effort and free to offer you the best advice possible. >Why would anyone in power at Antioch distrust the wisdom and counsel of those about them, particularly underlings in the organizational hierarchy, and instead receive advice to trust in the wisdom of strangers and hired mercenaries? > >Guskin also allows why he feels > >>so strongly about not making any decisions regarding governance at this time. ...wealthy people do not usually give large amounts of money to desperate institutions *and if they do it is usually because they have a great deal of confidence in a strong leader with a powerful vision of the future.* your missing it Jeff... Check out the Leadership and Change Phd program. What does it teach? Note Murdocks recent address to it graduates. Notice it isnt leadership and social change. ----G From marklp2 at comcast.net Sun Aug 19 21:56:24 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Sun Aug 19 21:56:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: References: <14070c9c2ebc65e51334559db739f666@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <007e01c7e2cd$557a25f0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> > Check out the Leadership and Change Phd program. What does it teach? Note Murdocks recent address to it graduates. > Notice it isnt leadership and social change. What is it then? Where is Murdock's address found? -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com) Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:41 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit >Guskin proposes a task force that should > >>not be based on representation from constituencies... but it should be composed of senior people who... are knowledgeable about Antioch College and the University..; should be people who are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning effort and free to offer you the best advice possible. >Why would anyone in power at Antioch distrust the wisdom and counsel of those about them, particularly underlings in the organizational hierarchy, and instead receive advice to trust in the wisdom of strangers and hired mercenaries? > >Guskin also allows why he feels > >>so strongly about not making any decisions regarding governance at this time. ...wealthy people do not usually give large amounts of money to desperate institutions *and if they do it is usually because they have a great deal of confidence in a strong leader with a powerful vision of the future.* your missing it Jeff... Check out the Leadership and Change Phd program. What does it teach? Note Murdocks recent address to it graduates. Notice it isnt leadership and social change. ----G _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From warren at antioch-college.edu Sun Aug 19 21:48:33 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Sun Aug 19 21:59:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: <76f184474563563a875da5fcf904fb8b@antiochians.org> References: <76f184474563563a875da5fcf904fb8b@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Dear Miriam, Many thanks for your wonderful message. I teach Philosophy and Politics at Antioch (and I was Dean of Students for 6 years as well), and it is without a doubt the best college I've ever taught at for the past 31 years (including 7 colleges). I am so happy your daughter is going to join us this year, and I can assure you that it will be an exciting year. At the same time, the faculty have filed a law suit to keep the college open, and we are confident that we will win this struggle. Tell Isabel that I'll be teaching a course called "Existentialism" and one called "Legitimation & Capitalism" this Fall, and I hope she'll be interested in at least one of them. Please tell her to look me up in any event and say hello! Thanks so much for your support, and if you want to contribute to the Faculty Legal Fund to help pay our lawyers for working to keep the College open, let me know, and I'll give you the information you need. I look forward to meeting Isabel! my best, Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 12:18 PM wrote: >Hi Shelley-- >the living room is full of boxes--my husband is about to drive my >daughter Isabel from Santa Fe to Yellow Springs! What a journey. I'll fly >out and meet them for Thursday's orientation etc. >Of course I'm worried about potential chaos, and the sadness of losing >the college. But on the positive side, I know this will be an educational >year like no other. I think we can expect an adventure--and there seems >to be a lot of good will from faculty, staff, etc. >I've been sending $ to both faculty and alumni efforts. I can't say--or >see the future--enough to know if these efforts will pay off in time to >keep our kids from having to transfer. But I feel the fight is important >for its own sake. >I guess my feeling is to expect a transfer--and if Antioch stays open the >kids can always stay put. I'm unclear about if the summer co-op is open >to Freshman, unclear as to if the abroad program is a good option.... >Antioch seemed so perfect for my daughter--and my uncle went there, as >well as a close friend and many aquaintances. It seems students are a >strong base too, and should be helped in their efforts to support the >school. >Good luck with it all! >best, >Miriam > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 22:06:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 22:06:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <007e01c7e2cd$557a25f0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <640842f32612cdc8652a5a226d068186@www.antiochians.org> >>Check out the Leadership and Change Phd program. What does it teach? >Note Murdocks recent address to it graduates. > >>Notice it isnt leadership and social change. >What is it then? > >Where is Murdock's address found? > >-----Original Message----- >From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >[mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Gerry Bello >(gerrybello@hotmail.com) >Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:41 PM >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if >ChancellorPosit > > >>Guskin proposes a task force that should >> >>>not be based on representation from constituencies... but it should be >> >composed of senior people who... are knowledgeable about Antioch College and >the University..; should be people who are not beholden to any group at >Antioch, not personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning effort and >free to offer you the best advice possible. >>Why would anyone in power at Antioch distrust the wisdom and counsel of >those about them, particularly underlings in the organizational hierarchy, >and instead receive advice to trust in the wisdom of strangers and hired >mercenaries? >>Guskin also allows why he feels >> >>>so strongly about not making any decisions regarding governance at this >> >time. ...wealthy people do not usually give large amounts of money to >desperate institutions *and if they do it is usually because they have a >great deal of confidence in a strong leader with a powerful vision of the >future.* >your missing it Jeff... > > >Check out the Leadership and Change Phd program. What does it teach? Note >Murdocks recent address to it graduates. > >Notice it isnt leadership and social change. > >----G Leadership and Change is basically a PhD is something somewhere between a Doctorate in Education and a Doctorate in Business Admin. It's a program designed to crank out little Murdock-Guskin clones to run the 21-century "universities" of tomorrow. It flew under my radar until her recent commencement address to its students a week ago. I thought it was some kind of fluffy international realations thing designed to get you hired into the UN bueracracy. The I took a closer look. you can view the chancellor address here: http://www.antiochians.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20219 try not to puke From warren at antioch-college.edu Sun Aug 19 22:28:15 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Sun Aug 19 22:38:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Shelley, I hope you hear from some other parents. As a professor of Philosophy and Politics I am very excited about the curriculum that we are going to offer this year. Over the past 31 years I have taught at Pomona College, Occiidental College, University of Colorado, Otis Art Institute, Claremont Graduate School, Denison University, and of course, Antioch College. Of all those colleges, Antioch is without a doubt the best college at which I've taught. Our students are the most amazing people I've ever encountered. They are intellectually curious, engaged, and challenging. I look forward to engaging them once again this year. Thank you so much for your support. my best, Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Sunday, August 19, 2007 at 6:39 AM wrote: >As August 23 approaches I would love to hear from other parents of >incoming >students as to their concerns and expectations for the coming year. > >Shelley > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new >AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 23:43:49 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeful (most_content@yahoo.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 23:43:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question Message-ID: <0c99e981aa01a88dd7c1acdf60eff2d0@www.antiochians.org> Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? Deb '83 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 23:44:17 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 23:44:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <640842f32612cdc8652a5a226d068186@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <1f649ececbf0d3049f06939cbf278081@antiochians.org> I guess I'm reading Guskin as advising complete moral neutrality about the people at Antioch College. It reminds me of colonization: If you want to govern people, you include constituents inside the circle. If you just want the land, you don't need to worry about people. Oh, and good linkage back to the chancellor's speech. Sounds straight out of the American Enterprise Institute. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Sun Aug 19 23:55:07 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Sun Aug 19 23:55:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <0c99e981aa01a88dd7c1acdf60eff2d0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Deb, you dont ask honest questions. And you welch on bets. ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "hopeful (most_content@yahoo.com)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question >Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:43:49 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc4-f15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, >19 Aug 2007 20:43:47 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D7B611EDDE;Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:50 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF36A611EDBFfor >; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:48 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IMyBC-0000QN-0Kfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:43:50 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAWK2VyguY8R5SMqdHmY0tkXFIQAxsdaHPzuK6iPmxmuIUSozGA4OWveorPBkrDnf3chwqwHzlR4Gg== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 03:43:47.0628 (UTC) >FILETIME=[5099AEC0:01C7E2DC] > >Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations >for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on >the Antioch Alumni Chat? > >Deb '83 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 23:58:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 23:58:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <0c99e981aa01a88dd7c1acdf60eff2d0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <3a24e8297fc0eac13762d99e11b35c10@antiochians.org> >Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? > >Deb '83 Deb, No. Once tenure is eliminated, you can ask your pals to have anyone whose speech you question summarily dismissed. As for sanction, what would they do to Warren? Fire him? Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Sun Aug 19 23:58:52 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Sun Aug 19 23:58:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <1f649ececbf0d3049f06939cbf278081@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <49f6971b94a7ae5f2bc5f7335029cde8@www.antiochians.org> >I guess I'm reading Guskin as advising complete moral neutrality about the people at Antioch College. > >It reminds me of colonization: If you want to govern people, you include constituents inside the circle. If you just want the land, you don't need to worry about people. > >Oh, and good linkage back to the chancellor's speech. Sounds straight out of the American Enterprise Institute. I should be finishing an Essay on her speech tonite or tomorrow for public (non-Antioch) consumption because its just so moral represhensbile I cant sit still... As far ask Guskins advice on moral neutrality.... its like advice on vision 2012 Advice on something that does not in fact exist. ----G From marklp2 at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 00:22:56 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Mon Aug 20 00:23:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001a01c7e2e1$c949e290$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> The only way to effect positive change is to work within the systems and change from within. The American Revolution aside, the history of radicalism is generally fraught with failure. Change from within is frustratingly slow as a rule. However, in the 21st century there may not be much time for incrementalism. I just hope that somehow we can get people to move faster and sense there are grave crises confronting us- instead of just comfortably burying their heads in the sand until it's too late. Re: Antioch, there is a need for what Antioch promotes --i.e., a liberal arts education. And it shouldn't be available only as distance learning or as Goddard College puts it now, "low residency education". But we have to create the vision to make it more marketable. As Pam said, the small liberal arts college should not go the way of the small farm, the community clinic, and the local business. All these things have a place and need to make a revival. Hopefully, the alumni group will put together such a vision. And hopefully the administration will work with it. Mark P. '71 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Olsen Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 11:23 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Travis Sanford said/ "...Al Guskin no longer believes in private residential four year colleges as a sustainable business model. While I think he would object to closure of the college in such a ham handed way I believe Toni took her lessons from him and is now outdoing the master." I find this very sad. I've been thinking, the BoT is exactly right! The college of the new century: part time faculty who have little investment in the institution, hence no mentors for students; no job security because there's no dependable financial backing, hence, no real academic freedom, no willingness to challenge the status quo (much like our senators and congressmen, letting our democracy go to hell because if they don't, they lose their jobs); no real community (community really must include those mentors and more interaction between generations); all preferably for profit, creating technicians. Thinking might happen because humans are creative, but it won't be helped along by the college. That's the new century, all right. Colleges going the way of the family farm, and small business, and health care (run increasingly by large corporations, in which providers are merely technicians. Or at least they keep trying to reduce us to that). Because they're not AS profitable. Personally, I think if we don't look a little further ahead and cry out for a return to manageable size and community, we'll pay a disastrous price. We already are. Surely the real college of the new century needs to find a way to MAKE a place for these things. The global crisis cries out for leadership in this area. Pam _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 00:32:31 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 00:32:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <001a01c7e2e1$c949e290$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: >From: "Mark Pomerantz" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "'Alumni Chat List'" >Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] small colleges >Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:22:56 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc6-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 19 >Aug 2007 21:22:59 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E022611F270;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:23:03 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net >[63.240.77.84])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031F1611F251for >; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:23:00 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from >home84c77b9b4f(c-67-168-89-192.hsd1.wa.comcast.net[67.168.89.192])by >comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTPid <200708200422550140008p7ne>; Mon, 20 >Aug 2007 04:22:55 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >U2wzkPk8/jbwZs9IzPwgmAzK9EPP1RbvlKz/w8YJ7i4ZoHtqlEKDfRTVws917atq00jJQ2O4e3rn1mX/9tSx7Q== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 >Thread-Index: AcfijY3DAf16ElaLTE6SrW4sTZTKJAAUn6Og >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 04:22:59.0654 (UTC) >FILETIME=[CA845E60:01C7E2E1] > >The only way to effect positive change is to work within the systems and >change from within. The American Revolution aside, the history of >radicalism >is generally fraught with failure. > >Mark P. '71 > As Sherman T Potter would say... HorseHuckey. I can list a number of neo-nazi organizations that I destroyed via means outside the system. I can list a number of others that were weakened through ill advised confrontation with the system and then finished off by extra-legal actions. Concessions are made by the system only when independent power outside of the system threatens the existance of the system. thats is the only time power concedes a damn thing. Or as I'm fond of saying "Democratic Party is the place where great social movement go to die" ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 00:38:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 00:38:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth In-Reply-To: <7c039b4f722c842f31bccfbfcd95e38d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Again, my apologies that your private life has been thrust into your public life. This comment is just too funny. Is there a *bit* of irony in this comment being made to the woman who publishes hearsay concerning the sex life of a faculty member to her college alumni listserv? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 00:46:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 00:46:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <0c99e981aa01a88dd7c1acdf60eff2d0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? Deb, does your employer find it strange that legal secretaries in their firm are dispensing questionable legal advise? From marklp2 at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 00:51:09 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Mon Aug 20 00:51:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: References: <001a01c7e2e1$c949e290$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <001b01c7e2e5$bf121550$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> It's about time Sherman T. Potter entered the discussion(?) I applaud your destruction of or weakening of neo-nazi organizations. Radicals may indeed threaten the system and sometimes their ideas are incorporated into the system as the Democrats absorbed Eugene Debs ideas in the early 20th century. Sometimes radicals even take over the system (Hitler, Stalin, GW Bush), but long-term positive social change usually is facilitated by liberals. Radical and anarchistic systems don't usually last very long. M- -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Gerry Bello Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:33 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] small colleges >From: "Mark Pomerantz" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "'Alumni Chat List'" >Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] small colleges >Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:22:56 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc6-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 19 >Aug 2007 21:22:59 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E022611F270;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:23:03 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net >[63.240.77.84])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031F1611F251for >; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:23:00 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from >home84c77b9b4f(c-67-168-89-192.hsd1.wa.comcast.net[67.168.89.192])by >comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTPid <200708200422550140008p7ne>; Mon, 20 >Aug 2007 04:22:55 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >U2wzkPk8/jbwZs9IzPwgmAzK9EPP1RbvlKz/w8YJ7i4ZoHtqlEKDfRTVws917atq00jJQ2O4e3r n1mX/9tSx7Q== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 >Thread-Index: AcfijY3DAf16ElaLTE6SrW4sTZTKJAAUn6Og >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 04:22:59.0654 (UTC) >FILETIME=[CA845E60:01C7E2E1] > >The only way to effect positive change is to work within the systems and >change from within. The American Revolution aside, the history of >radicalism >is generally fraught with failure. > >Mark P. '71 > As Sherman T Potter would say... HorseHuckey. I can list a number of neo-nazi organizations that I destroyed via means outside the system. I can list a number of others that were weakened through ill advised confrontation with the system and then finished off by extra-legal actions. Concessions are made by the system only when independent power outside of the system threatens the existance of the system. thats is the only time power concedes a damn thing. Or as I'm fond of saying "Democratic Party is the place where great social movement go to die" ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage?get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio n_HM_mini_2G_0507 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 01:09:25 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 01:09:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <001b01c7e2e5$bf121550$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: >It's about time Sherman T. Potter entered the discussion(?) > >I applaud your destruction of or weakening of neo-nazi organizations. >Radicals may indeed threaten the system and sometimes their ideas are >incorporated into the system as the Democrats absorbed Eugene Debs ideas in >the early 20th century. Sometimes radicals even take over the system >(Hitler, Stalin, GW Bush), but long-term positive social change usually is >facilitated by liberals. Radical and anarchistic systems don't usually last >very long. > >M- Again this is false. Treaties may be written in the halls of power.... They are ratified on the battlefield. Liberals may be around to co-opt, self-credit and accept concessions, but radicals force the change. Stalin and GW are conservatives. Niether was radical. Niether took over a system, they were both products of it and inheritors... second class creatures riding changes and ideas made my others, ossfiying them and enforcing them with terror. There is no insurgent force behind either, niether could sieze power and re-shape a nation. one could say that long term positive social change is prevented by liberals, who love and trust the system enough to sacrifice some measure of justice for the sake of stability and the preservation of societies fundementally morally bankrupt structures that favor the liberals priviliage. If it is a sin that the best radical movements have been insufficiently vicious to win civil wars when vastly outnumbered then I'm sinning like its div dance. ----G From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 01:16:33 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 01:16:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <001b01c7e2e5$bf121550$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <15e08cbb13048fa9924d0b8070540342@www.antiochians.org> >It's about time Sherman T. Potter entered the discussion(?) > >I applaud your destruction of or weakening of neo-nazi organizations. >Radicals may indeed threaten the system and sometimes their ideas are >incorporated into the system as the Democrats absorbed Eugene Debs ideas in >the early 20th century. Sometimes radicals even take over the system >(Hitler, Stalin, GW Bush), but long-term positive social change usually is >facilitated by liberals. Radical and anarchistic systems don't usually last >very long. But liberals, when they happen to exist, rarely push for that systemic positive change without pressure from radicals. The liberal Democratic party didn't wake up in the 60's and decide that civil rights were something good to work for. The groups working outside of the normal political spectrum, notably King's SCLC, helped drive the issues to the front, and in the process, knocked the Dixiecrats out of the Democratic party. And SCLC was consistently pressured by more decentralized, radical groups like CORE and SNCC. Radical demands for "revolution now!" on their own are doomed to failure, but just as foolish is expecting an institution or structure to change itself by asking nicely. It requires the proper combinations of external and internal pressures. The bigger the institution, the greater the reason to change will be required. In the case of the referred-to Democratic party, I think it would take an existential threat to the party which simply doesn't exist right now - the Republicans are more likely to break apart in an interesting fashion. In the case of Antioch University, well! The most radical faction right now is the faculty, seeking resolution completely outside AU's governance structure. The Alumni Board is working with one foot out, and one little toe in the University structure. There's a proposal for negotiations - we'll see how that goes. The former Trustees and their letter have said "we understand the constraints of what you're working with, and think this can be helped." Call them lobbyists, giving the University structure a chance to help it fix itself. The official AU leadership has said "no, we don't want to change, go away." They're making the DLC look good. The non-leadership current Trustees, however, haven't said a whole lot. Now - find the working levers for changing this system. From Sistersara at aol.com Mon Aug 20 01:25:04 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 20 01:25:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! Message-ID: In a message dated 8/19/2007 6:50:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, davidallenusa@yahoo.com writes: August 19, 07 Hello from Yazz (David Roger) Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com I read one writer on the Antioch College alumni chatline today (Aug. 19, 07) praising Alan Guskin! Right or wrong? Wrong! He's (Alan Guskin's) the guy who really started the whole legal mess Antioch is in .... he took the CEO job with him to Seattle WA and left the "Antioch President" job much less important than when it was first given to him. He was not anyone wonderful or blameless, and I wince when I see writers who say otherwise. I think it's very important to keep a hit list about who the bad guys are in the present crisis. Some people (and the ENTIRE AU BOT is among these) should, to quote the late Rodney Dangerfield, "get no respect." Dr. Alan Guskin, former Antioch College president and AU BOT "Chancellor," should be included on this list, is one of them, right along side of his good friend, Art Zucker '55, curent AU BOT chairman, and his other good friend, Bob Krinsky '57, former AU BOT chairman (Zucker and Krinksy are both millionaires acting to support their class). If the dust settle and Antioch College is STILL alive and not closed down, the ENTIRE AU BOT should be identified FOREVER as the villains who set the current crisis in motion. A NEW Antioch charter should include provisions which state that Antioch College can never and will never be shut down EVER by AU BOT members for ANY reasons, including the terrible crime of "poverty." ALSO, the charter should defame every single one of the no-conscience AU BOT members who gave us all what we face today, forbid any possible re-appointment or continued status as AU BOT members for any person part of the sell-out of Antioch College. The "bad guy list" is the same as the list of AU BOT members who voted or were present for the infamous vote of June 9, 07 which tried to sell Antioch College, Ohio, down the river. Kick 'em out. Give 'em no glory. NEVER invite 'em back. If by some unlikely chance the good guys end up winning the current battle, and "Role Of Honor" identifying who started the mess we all face at the current time (Aug. 2007) should be chipped in stone, the names "Alan Guskin, Bob Krinsky" should be included alongside of all 22 AU BOT members who made the current closedown crisis what it is, and also those who failed, due to lack of conscience, to object publically to what happened...and that includes every single member of the AU BOT who sold Antioch College down the river on June 2, 2007. STOP "making nice" with the likes of Alan Guskin or his fellow dorks, which certainly includes every single member (no exceptions) of the AU BOT now in office or in office on June 8, 07, a date which, to quote FDR, "will live in infamy." Yazz (David Roger) Allen, Antioch CollegeAlumnus Well, I don't subscribe to the Black and White, Evil or Good, Hero or Villain manner of looking at the sum total of someone's work and life. I would think we might be a little bit more nuanced and intellectually sophisticated than that. Al Guskin is a mortal man, and he did some good things at Antioch, and he made mistakes. Among the good things -- improving the endowment, raising money, spending money on new faculty, revision of many student services, and massive repair and renovation of boarded up buildings. He improved recruitment and retention, particularly in his first five years or so. Faculty got their first raises in years. The big mistake he made -- the reorganization of governance at what he knew would be the tail end of his term as both Chancellor and President. That is the kind of change any new CEO makes in an institution about the second or third year you are onboard -- after you've found your way around, but still have some years left to fine tune and adjust your bright idea. By doing it in the last year of his tenure, and then handing it off to the new College President to execute, Guskin created an outsized administrative structure for a little bitty institution, and apparently by not having lines of communication between College Leadership and BoT, created something of a monster. You don't necessarily fix problems by calling on Rube Goldberg for consultation. Reading the Guskin missive, I suspect he knows this, as he is warning Toni to leave the governance matter alone for the time being, and take the first steps toward planning for re-opening. First, a Framework Commission -- What is the necessary work plan? This then should suggest the whole agenda of things that need research and consideration -- and the sequence in which they need to be done and the proper order for decisions. It is only once you actually begin to see the emergence of a full outline of a plan that you can imagine all the constituency groups that need to be engaged. But I also would note that I think Guskin does not realize how important a well done independent institutional history would be at an early stage in the replanning. I still say you can't fix something if you don't know what went wrong. I have another issue to pick with Al Guskin -- I really don't think he "gets" the new IT age. He needs a month or two around the MIT New Media Lab brainstorming with all those geekee visionaries. His failure to figure how to get community wide connectivity up and running in YSO, and have a large conversation about how to exploit all the possibilities is and was a problem. In 1988 one of the first conversations I had with him about this just blew my mind -- he was thinking as to how you had to lock the computers up when their use was not being supervised. Now I know his problem -- ATT wanted multi-bucks because Antiochians had widely used blue and black boxes to scam the long distance service, and ATT was getting nasty about their bill. In fact for some year or so, none of the dorms had outside phone service as a result of this dispute except for paid up incoming calls. Alumni coming in for reunion had to have a charge card, and go to the Drug Store to use a pay phone. Without question yea ole honor system had been scrapped leaving Ma Antioch holding the Ma Bell bill. But even in 1988 there were plenty of folk who were looking down the pike at what was about to arrive, and anyone in leadership should have also been on top of that. Anyhow, I was surprised Al had not sorted out the structure of old media and distributed media. (And yes, anyone with a guilty conscience about making so-called free calls over the dorm pay phones -- maybe you ought to consider a conscience payment to the renewal fund.) I think Al Guskin said the bills were well over a hundred thousand dollars -- many were international calls. But why hadn't Antioch long since wired the rooms, and given students a key to their phone??? In Minnesota they had such a system in dorms in the early 1960's. Of course today they just sell at something of a discount, cell phone services. So Al Guskin is neither a Hero or Villain. He is a mortal human who did some good things, and made some mistakes. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 01:49:18 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 01:49:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From: Sistersara@aol.com >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? >Definitelyvillain! >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:25:04 EDT >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc8-f21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, >19 Aug 2007 22:25:10 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 9863F611F493;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:25:13 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from imo-m11.mail.aol.com (imo-m11.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.170])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBB0611F474for >; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:25:11 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from Sistersara@aol.comby imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.2.) >id w.c3b.19e2e51d (39955)for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 >01:25:05 -0400 (EDT) >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAWzWlqIVhGkHRTmCJiVFHGXd1Av43Dv2ZROow7BALfFJEI1biQL6VuDfDASGPhsEhXQ7dKmPNrnRw== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5366 >X-Spam-Flag: NO >X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 05:25:10.0224 (UTC) >FILETIME=[7A1C2D00:01C7E2EA] > > >In a message dated 8/19/2007 6:50:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >davidallenusa@yahoo.com writes: > >August 19, 07 > >Hello from Yazz (David Roger) Allen! >Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com > >I read one writer on the Antioch College alumni chatline today (Aug. 19, >07) >praising Alan Guskin! > >Right or wrong? Wrong! > >He's (Alan Guskin's) the guy who really started the whole legal mess >Antioch >is in .... he took the CEO job with him to Seattle WA and left the >"Antioch >President" job much less important than when it was first given to him. >He >was not anyone wonderful or blameless, and I wince when I see writers who >say >otherwise. > >I think it's very important to keep a hit list about who the bad guys are >in >the present crisis. > >Some people (and the ENTIRE AU BOT is among these) should, to quote the >late >Rodney Dangerfield, "get no respect." > >Dr. Alan Guskin, former Antioch College president and AU BOT "Chancellor," >should be included on this list, is one of them, right along side of his >good >friend, Art Zucker '55, curent AU BOT chairman, and his other good friend, >Bob Krinsky '57, former AU BOT chairman (Zucker and Krinksy are both >millionaires acting to support their class). > >If the dust settle and Antioch College is STILL alive and not closed down, >the ENTIRE AU BOT should be identified FOREVER as the villains who set the >current crisis in motion. > >A NEW Antioch charter should include provisions which state that Antioch >College can never and will never be shut down EVER by AU BOT members for >ANY >reasons, including the terrible crime of "poverty." > >ALSO, the charter should defame every single one of the no-conscience AU >BOT members who gave us all what we face today, forbid any possible >re-appointment or continued status as AU BOT members for any person part >of the >sell-out of Antioch College. The "bad guy list" is the same as the list >of AU BOT >members who voted or were present for the infamous vote of June 9, 07 >which >tried to sell Antioch College, Ohio, down the river. Kick 'em out. Give >'em >no glory. NEVER invite 'em back. > >If by some unlikely chance the good guys end up winning the current >battle, >and "Role Of Honor" identifying who started the mess we all face at the >current time (Aug. 2007) should be chipped in stone, the names "Alan >Guskin, Bob >Krinsky" should be included alongside of all 22 AU BOT members who made >the >current closedown crisis what it is, and also those who failed, due to >lack >of conscience, to object publically to what happened...and that includes >every >single member of the AU BOT who sold Antioch College down the river on >June >2, 2007. > >STOP "making nice" with the likes of Alan Guskin or his fellow dorks, >which >certainly includes every single member (no exceptions) of the AU BOT now >in >office or in office on June 8, 07, a date which, to quote FDR, "will live >in >infamy." > >Yazz (David Roger) Allen, >Antioch CollegeAlumnus > > > >Well, I don't subscribe to the Black and White, Evil or Good, Hero or >Villain manner of looking at the sum total of someone's work and life. I >would >think we might be a little bit more nuanced and intellectually >sophisticated >than that. Al Guskin is a mortal man, and he did some good things at >Antioch, >and he made mistakes. Among the good things -- improving the endowment, >raising money, spending money on new faculty, revision of many student >services, >and massive repair and renovation of boarded up buildings. He improved >recruitment and retention, particularly in his first five years or so. >Faculty got >their first raises in years. > >The big mistake he made -- the reorganization of governance at what he knew >would be the tail end of his term as both Chancellor and President. That >is >the kind of change any new CEO makes in an institution about the second or >third year you are onboard -- after you've found your way around, but still >have > some years left to fine tune and adjust your bright idea. By doing it in >the last year of his tenure, and then handing it off to the new College >President to execute, Guskin created an outsized administrative structure >for a >little bitty institution, and apparently by not having lines of >communication >between College Leadership and BoT, created something of a monster. You >don't >necessarily fix problems by calling on Rube Goldberg for consultation. > >Reading the Guskin missive, I suspect he knows this, as he is warning Toni >to leave the governance matter alone for the time being, and take the first >steps toward planning for re-opening. First, a Framework Commission -- >What is >the necessary work plan? This then should suggest the whole agenda of >things that need research and consideration -- and the sequence in which >they need >to be done and the proper order for decisions. It is only once you >actually >begin to see the emergence of a full outline of a plan that you can >imagine >all the constituency groups that need to be engaged. But I also would >note >that I think Guskin does not realize how important a well done independent >institutional history would be at an early stage in the replanning. I >still say >you can't fix something if you don't know what went wrong. > >I have another issue to pick with Al Guskin -- I really don't think he >"gets" the new IT age. He needs a month or two around the MIT New Media >Lab >brainstorming with all those geekee visionaries. His failure to figure >how to get >community wide connectivity up and running in YSO, and have a large >conversation about how to exploit all the possibilities is and was a >problem. In >1988 one of the first conversations I had with him about this just blew my >mind >-- he was thinking as to how you had to lock the computers up when their >use >was not being supervised. Now I know his problem -- ATT wanted >multi-bucks >because Antiochians had widely used blue and black boxes to scam the long >distance service, and ATT was getting nasty about their bill. In fact for >some >year or so, none of the dorms had outside phone service as a result of >this >dispute except for paid up incoming calls. Alumni coming in for reunion >had to >have a charge card, and go to the Drug Store to use a pay phone. Without >question yea ole honor system had been scrapped leaving Ma Antioch holding >the >Ma Bell bill. But even in 1988 there were plenty of folk who were looking >down the pike at what was about to arrive, and anyone in leadership should >have >also been on top of that. Anyhow, I was surprised Al had not sorted out >the >structure of old media and distributed media. (And yes, anyone with a >guilty conscience about making so-called free calls over the dorm pay >phones -- >maybe you ought to consider a conscience payment to the renewal fund.) I >think >Al Guskin said the bills were well over a hundred thousand dollars -- many >were international calls. But why hadn't Antioch long since wired the >rooms, >and given students a key to their phone??? In Minnesota they had such a >system in dorms in the early 1960's. Of course today they just sell at >something >of a discount, cell phone services. > >So Al Guskin is neither a Hero or Villain. He is a mortal human who did >some good things, and made some mistakes. > > > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL >at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! well... me gots some time while waiting for the rest of the last samurai to download from tuduo (japanese youtube) so I'll play. quite frankly... Guskin did what Guskin needed to do for Guskin. so yeah, he fixed the place up, and raised some money. For those of us who actually lived there and spent some time investigating him will tell you a slightly different story: Construction Contracts that cost more than they should have. Administrative Compensation way out of line with the size of the institution and the salary of jane average faculty member. For instance the Guskin household drawing 4 salaries: 1 for his wife, 1 for him as chancellor, 1 for him as president and 1 for him as a "distinguished proffessor" at nearly twice what a full proffessor drew". If you read between the lines of the federal structure and the ULC founding documents and manual, you will see that Guskin created the whole system to insulate himself and protect his power. So he creates the chancellor position and then makes Crowfoot president. so we can kick him around. And kick we did because they hired a guy who would try to listen and deal, but had no power to do so and finally sort of imploded and was last seen wandering on the beach in northern michigan growing his beard and mumbling to himself. Because between the Guskin and BoT above and the toxic posse below... you get flattened baby. This whole thing was created for one purpose and that was to cut everybody out of the loop. Anybody can raise money for Antioch, execept apparently they current BoT. Antiochians understand the school needs support and we shell out every time. How much further would the money Guskin did raise without the sweetheart no-bid contruction deals and the MILLIONS he made personally (drawing 3 6-digit salaries for years and not having to own a home!) ? Think about it. And whats his advice now: "Dont listen to anybody below you, screw the stakeholders, screw everybody but the consultants, fuck democracy, fuck tradition, fuck institutional memory where it doesn hallow yours truely, forward unto personal profit" Murdock is truely an apt pupil... Together they might as well start quoting the Sith Law of twos. -----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 01:57:13 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 01:57:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <15e08cbb13048fa9924d0b8070540342@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <7e664bcd4b0c42edd9f32af8ce323cf5@antiochians.org> I applaud this conversation. It inspired this thought: Why has the "ownership" class of Antioch -- from President Al Guskin of my time (soon to crown himself chancelor) on up through the university administration and Board of Trustees -- been so seemingly at odds with and ashamed of the radical traditions of Antioch College? Those being participant-directed education, educating to foster social justice, direct action to answer injustice and ongoing pressure for bottom-up decision making? (In my opinion, few notions are more radical than giving young people a choice and a voice. Clearly, the "generation gap" never closed, and America still hates and fears her young. The joke is, the boomers are in charge this time. Send Steve Lawry and email and see what he thinks.) I know this is a sweeping generalization, especially when it comes to 15 years of BoT members. But today we are faced with overwhelming evidence that our institutional leaders' culture and politics are at odds with those traditions. Those were the traditions that the director of my alternative high school -- founded by families of public high-school kids expelled for commemorating the one-year anniversary of the Kent State massacre -- presented to me when selling me on Antioch College. (She was ready to go to Antioch herself in the late '50s when her father became ill, making it necessary for her to pick an east-coast school at a time when a trip from NYC to Yellow Springs took three days.) And when I got to Antioch in 1989, belief in those traditions were the norm. Hearing stories about life on campus in the mid-2000s I don't hear anything that tells me that much has changed. What HAS changed is the venom and attempts at behavioral modification and ham-fisted control tactics from the college administration, apparently insisted upon by the ULC and BoT. I'm not saying that young people don't need guidance. That's what faculty and student-services staff do, in the best of circumstances. That's what older students do for younger students, when they aren't being separated from one another. The whole point of the endeavor is education, right? We questioned authority back in the day and asked Al Guskin some pointed questions. He answered honestly and we didn't always like the answers, but we -- students and administrators -- treated one another with basic respect, and peer pressure _on either side_ enforced this. Today, Al Guskin advises the chancellor to stonewall and dismantle Antioch College, and build something alien to Antioch College's traditions in its place, with its capital. The president smears the students and alumni and the Board of Trustees members whose opinions I have heard regard the Antioch College student body to be some sort of pit of snakes. What we're seeing today is not a struggle by liberals to reign in radicals. This is reactionaries purging radicals. Alan Benard From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 02:02:02 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 02:02:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <7e664bcd4b0c42edd9f32af8ce323cf5@antiochians.org> Message-ID: well said sir "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] small colleges >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:57:13 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc12-f13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, >19 Aug 2007 22:57:09 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4CA611F541;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:57:13 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DE2611F535for >; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:57:11 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IN0GH-00050o-Affor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:57:13 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >U2wzkPk8/jaodNKa+7/YUW9JtLjjUagFb6DaPJrihVFtJ5gdSBAnne3GOEII62zbPpkVCkyhMBw60kGMFzDTtw== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >Thread-Index: Acfi4yY3S3unKtPZQlyeqn+LX6ziiwAAWKgw >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 05:57:09.0250 (UTC) >FILETIME=[F1F04E20:01C7E2EE] > >I applaud this conversation. It inspired this thought: > >Why has the "ownership" class of Antioch -- from President Al Guskin of my >time (soon to crown himself chancelor) on up through the university >administration and Board of Trustees -- been so seemingly at odds with and >ashamed of the radical traditions of Antioch College? Those being >participant-directed education, educating to foster social justice, direct >action to answer injustice and ongoing pressure for bottom-up decision >making? > >(In my opinion, few notions are more radical than giving young people a >choice and a voice. Clearly, the "generation gap" never closed, and America >still hates and fears her young. The joke is, the boomers are in charge >this time. Send Steve Lawry and email and see what he thinks.) > >I know this is a sweeping generalization, especially when it comes to 15 >years of BoT members. But today we are faced with overwhelming evidence >that our institutional leaders' culture and politics are at odds with those >traditions. > >Those were the traditions that the director of my alternative high school >-- founded by families of public high-school kids expelled for >commemorating the one-year anniversary of the Kent State massacre -- >presented to me when selling me on Antioch College. (She was ready to go to >Antioch herself in the late '50s when her father became ill, making it >necessary for her to pick an east-coast school at a time when a trip from >NYC to Yellow Springs took three days.) > >And when I got to Antioch in 1989, belief in those traditions were the >norm. Hearing stories about life on campus in the mid-2000s I don't hear >anything that tells me that much has changed. What HAS changed is the venom >and attempts at behavioral modification and ham-fisted control tactics from >the college administration, apparently insisted upon by the ULC and BoT. > >I'm not saying that young people don't need guidance. That's what faculty >and student-services staff do, in the best of circumstances. That's what >older students do for younger students, when they aren't being separated >from one another. The whole point of the endeavor is education, right? > >We questioned authority back in the day and asked Al Guskin some pointed >questions. He answered honestly and we didn't always like the answers, but >we -- students and administrators -- treated one another with basic >respect, and peer pressure _on either side_ enforced this. > >Today, Al Guskin advises the chancellor to stonewall and dismantle Antioch >College, and build something alien to Antioch College's traditions in its >place, with its capital. The president smears the students and alumni and >the Board of Trustees members whose opinions I have heard regard the >Antioch College student body to be some sort of pit of snakes. > >What we're seeing today is not a struggle by liberals to reign in radicals. >This is reactionaries purging radicals. > >Alan Benard > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From Sistersara at aol.com Mon Aug 20 02:39:53 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 20 02:40:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/2007 12:16:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: But liberals, when they happen to exist, rarely push for that systemic positive change without pressure from radicals. The liberal Democratic party didn't wake up in the 60's and decide that civil rights were something good to work for. The groups working outside of the normal political spectrum, notably King's SCLC, helped drive the issues to the front, and in the process, knocked the Dixiecrats out of the Democratic party. And SCLC was consistently pressured by more decentralized, radical groups like CORE and SNCC. Excuse me. Democratic Party History records that in the wake of the disaster that was the 1968 Chicago Convention, the Democratic National Committee appointed a reform commission, first under the chairmanship of George McGovern, and then when he decided to run for President, by Congressman Don Fraser. By 1971 they had reviewed every inch of the party, wrote reform rules, these were adopted in 1971 and were used in the National Call for the 1972 Convention, applying to every State party in the nation. It was those rules, and not the civil rights movement that not only resulted in Richard Daley's slate not getting seated at the 1972 convention, but also forced the Southern Parties to use proportional representation and practice affirmative action in selecting delegations. The decision to reform in 1968 was influenced by the rise of the Civil Rights Movement in the late 50's -- and by the implications of the 1965 Voter Rights Act -- but it was also influenced by the Feminist Movement (Women now need to be half of any selected delegation or committee in the party) and it subsequently incorporated Gays, Trans-sexuals, Lesbians, Bi-Sexuals, and in more recent years, we have added a few more to the list. Listen to it sometime -- any Democratic Party meeting by the rules has to read the Affirmative Action Statement -- right after the Flag pledge, and before the first order of business. And yes, the opposition to the Vietnam War had a lot to do with the decision to reform. And yes -- I know about it because Don Fraser was my Congressman and then my Mayor, and I worked for him for part of a summer writing drafts of proposed rules based on questionnaires and regional hearings all over the country. Two-three hundred suggestions for each rule, count all these up, report them, and then draft language for a proposed rule representing what you believe to be clear majority positions -- if in doubt, write a couple of options and the clarify the critical differences. Of course it had to go to the Full Commission, and then to all the State Parties for comment, and then back for final wording, and then to the DNC, rules Committee at the 72 Convention and then on to the floor, -- But that is how it was done. I don't remember SCLC even submitting anything. NAACP had a full presentation, as did Leadership Conference, and even the remains of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party sent in proposed rules. I think virtually all of it got in. There were really only two fights. Labor did not like the new rules, not wanting to share power with all the rest of the constituencies, and Machine Organizations (such as Daley's machine in Chicago) refused to go along, preferring to keep the system where the bosses selected the slates and committeemen. How do you think Howard Dean got elected Party Chair three years ago? McGovern Fraser Rules -- you have to have an open nominating system for all party offices, including national committee persons, half of whom must be women. Can the power elites still game the system -- yea, but can organized folk get it together and push back, well if they know the rules they can. So what has Dean Done -- well after the McGovern-Fraser rules came in, most of the Dixie parties went into receivership essentially, with good ole boy judges naming as receiver one of the other good ole boys. Offices were closed, liens were filed against past party officers who would not settle up because they didn't want any of the elected party black officers getting their hands on lists and anything else of value. Dean took 11 states out of bankruptcy, hired local staff, assigned national tech types to establish modern systems (trade in the index cards in shoe boxes and typewriters for some up to date Computers) and the national party programs, and in other states modernize where needed. It is still a work in progress, but by this year we will have it nationwide. He has also raised a ton of money that has been invested in the states -- and built a fund raising system that will sustain the party in all states. Reform takes many shapes. The 72 McGovern Fraser reforms that provide the base for an open party are still there, modified a little here and there, but they are the standard. In the last few years it has been a modernizing reform -- and that has been the gift of the younger generation that was agast at shoe boxes filled with index cards. There will be much more to come. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 02:59:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 02:59:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <106cce7c60cbf7837427bbc3e6e55c53@www.antiochians.org> Well, yes. I'm not sure why you're portraying this as opposed to what I said about the Civil Rights movement, which I was speaking of only in terms of its effectiveness in bringing Civil Rights about, as something good for the world accomplished by liberals pushed by radicals. And this change in the Democratic party, as you mentioned, came out of the wake of the "disaster that was the 1968 Chicago Convention." The Convention was a "disaster" for the Democrats, in part because of the radical protesting going on outside of, and against, its structure and institutional authority. I tend to focus on 1964, myself, when the Dixiecrats fled to Goldwater. This was the convention with the radical MFDP demanding they receive representation, instead of the lily-white Mississippi Democrats. The Democratic establishment didn't want to deal with the confrontation at what was otherwise LBJ's coronation, but the Dixiecrats were aching for a chance to leave, and the MFDP and SNCC were working on the finishing chapter of the boldest move of the Civil Rights era. The Dixiecrats took the chance to bolt, but the Democrats failed to placate the MFDP, and a generation of radicals. It wasn't a problem in 1964, of course, but they started paying the price in 68 and had it completed in 80. But anyway - what you say meshes with my analysis - the Democratic party, after 1968, saw that it was facing an existential threat, and pushed by external pressures as well as internal reformers, remade itself for the better, as you claim. A fine example, and I hope it happens again soon... >Excuse me. Democratic Party History records that in the wake of the >disaster that was the 1968 Chicago Convention, the Democratic National Committee >appointed a reform commission, first under the chairmanship of George McGovern, >and then when he decided to run for President, by Congressman Don Fraser. By >1971 they had reviewed every inch of the party, wrote reform rules, these >were adopted in 1971 and were used in the National Call for the 1972 Convention, >applying to every State party in the nation. It was those rules, and not >the civil rights movement that not only resulted in Richard Daley's slate not >getting seated at the 1972 convention, but also forced the Southern Parties to >use proportional representation and practice affirmative action in selecting >delegations. The decision to reform in 1968 was influenced by the rise of >the Civil Rights Movement in the late 50's -- and by the implications of the >1965 Voter Rights Act -- but it was also influenced by the Feminist Movement >(Women now need to be half of any selected delegation or committee in the >party) and it subsequently incorporated Gays, Trans-sexuals, Lesbians, >Bi-Sexuals, and in more recent years, we have added a few more to the list. Listen to >it sometime -- any Democratic Party meeting by the rules has to read the >Affirmative Action Statement -- right after the Flag pledge, and before the >first order of business. And yes, the opposition to the Vietnam War had a lot to >do with the decision to reform. From Sistersara at aol.com Mon Aug 20 05:28:34 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 20 05:28:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/2007 12:49:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, gerrybello@hotmail.com writes: quite frankly... Guskin did what Guskin needed to do for Guskin. so yeah, he fixed the place up, and raised some money. --------- So -- most people in politics and business operate at least in part out of personal self interest. Some are more indirect about it than others. Why be surprised that this is human nature? What he accomplished was a mid-sized urban restoration project, and while I too have questions about no-bid contracts and the like, and I thought there were flaws in design and concept -- particularly the IT piece of it I have mentioned -- It was a legitimate accomplishment. Remember, I was on the Alumni Board during his tenure, and watched the process unfold beginning in 1988 through 1994. I don't think what he was paid was outside the "market" in that period for someone managing an urban renewal project, raising the funds for it, and also trying to run both the college and university. What I don't get is the period between 92 and 94 when he came up with the monster of a governance plan, and then just left for greener fields. There is a huge piece missing there that just doesn't make sense. He had enrollment up, retention up, he was announcing new tenure track positions -- all healthy. Then it just went boom. What happened in that narrow little period? I think a little less focus on personality, and more digging into decisions made outside our present field of view. ----------------- For those of us who actually lived there and spent some time investigating him will tell you a slightly different story: Construction Contracts that cost more than they should have. Administrative Compensation way out of line with the size of the institution and the salary of jane average faculty member. For instance the Guskin household drawing 4 salaries: 1 for his wife, 1 for him as chancellor, 1 for him as president and 1 for him as a "distinguished proffessor" at nearly twice what a full proffessor drew". Yep, too many administrators at too much cost -- no disagreement here. And yes, the Board of Trustees should have considered the salary of his wife. If I remember, he changed wives during his tenure, one was a film producer, and had been co-hired to do a film program, and then she left, and eventually there was another wife. I actually think the distinguished professor bit came on after he left the Antioch Presidency, but I would have to get back into board notes to figure that out. But agreed, it is a bit of a jumble about one person's compensation package. The problem is that unless we have a comprehensive view of the whole finance of Higher Ed in this country, and understand that this stuff at Antioch is nickels and dimes to what is going on across the whole profession and shall we say, Industry, we waste breath damning individuals for not being Gandhi types -- huge figures who wear sandals and loin cloths -- and spin their own cotton thread -- and we don't take it head on where one could get traction. All this stuff is about how the whole cost of higher education got inflated beyond the ability of most middle income families to pay for it for their children. (maintaining the class system maybe???) Remember, at the same time all this little stuff was going down at Antioch, George Walker Bush was using the Harvard Endowment as a means of unloading his Harken Oil Stock -- his failed oil company. Of course since the Harvard Endowment is about the same size as the Budget for Belgium, I suppose they could absorb the loss. But There is a reason the cost of Higher Education has undergone inflation over the past 25 years or so at the rate it has -- and there is a hell of a lot of rot in the system, and a huge reform needed. Antioch is just a little bitty part of it, though you can find bits and pieces there that lead you to understand the rest of the system scam. I don't think Guskin took any more than others similarly situated did -- and I don't think by personalizing things one necessarily gets at the rape of the system. ----------------- If you read between the lines of the federal structure and the ULC founding documents and manual, you will see that Guskin created the whole system to insulate himself and protect his power. So he creates the chancellor position and then makes Crowfoot president. so we can kick him around. And kick we did because they hired a guy who would try to listen and deal, but had no power to do so and finally sort of imploded and was last seen wandering on the beach in northern michigan growing his beard and mumbling to himself. Because between the Guskin and BoT above and the toxic posse below... you get flattened baby. Well, I don't think the object of being an Antioch College student is to implode someone else's mind. Did making Crowfoot a mental case help build Antioch? I think not. But I suppose in the era of Gingrich, Abramoff and Tom DeLay people might think this is the way business gets done. Sad. I keep posting that up into the mid 1960's, decisions by AdCil were all made by consensus in the fashion of a Quaker Meeting for Business. The point of that is never to have winners or losers. You always want to move people to a built consensus position, so that everyone accepts the consensus, knowing full well that another issue will come up requiring yet another decision, and you want to avoid passions moving as factions from one issue to another. Flattening folk was never part of that process. By the way, I have been in many DFL Party fights over the years, and the ones that end up causing us to lose elections are those where stark either/or positions are demanded. I always feel a bit guilty because I was part of the Gene McCarthy Faction that after the 68 convention said, never, Gene, never make peace with Hubert. Well, that is what got us Nixon, and Cheney and Rumsfeld and all the rest of those characters even down to Karl Rove who worked during the 72 campaign for Harry Dent who was in charge of the "Southern Strategy." Yes, Hubert's liason with Richard Daley was offensive, but sometimes you look at the bigger picture, and come back around with reform rules and give Daley a little wack. --------------- This whole thing was created for one purpose and that was to cut everybody out of the loop. Anybody can raise money for Antioch, execept apparently they current BoT. Antiochians understand the school needs support and we shell out every time. How much further would the money Guskin did raise without the sweetheart no-bid contruction deals and the MILLIONS he made personally (drawing 3 6-digit salaries for years and not having to own a home!) ? Think about it. And whats his advice now: "Dont listen to anybody below you, screw the stakeholders, screw everybody but the consultants, fuck democracy, fuck tradition, fuck institutional memory where it doesn hallow yours truely, forward unto personal profit" No, he doesn't say that. He says forget the governance issues for now, figure out how to create a short term framework commission. This isn't "the plan" it is the process for ultimately making a plan for reopening. He says don't engage anyone involved in the current passions. Pick outsiders who can stick with a process planning mission. I sure hope they won't be paid huge consulting fees -- but will work for little bitty ones plus carfare. What I have been making as argument all along is that the elected Alumni Board needs to be in a position to act in an independent and parallel fashion. They need independence, but they also need to be in a position to communicate and negotiate. In essence, they too need a plan. They don't need to be stuck with a demand to keep the college functioning no matter what as a take it or leave it position -- they need to be able to act in the names of all alumni over several generations in a quite independent way. ------------------ Murdock is truely an apt pupil... Together they might as well start quoting the Sith Law of twos. -----G ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From afrye at bitwisesystems.com Mon Aug 20 06:33:38 2007 From: afrye at bitwisesystems.com (Ann Frye) Date: Mon Aug 20 06:34:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <7e664bcd4b0c42edd9f32af8ce323cf5@antiochians.org> References: <7e664bcd4b0c42edd9f32af8ce323cf5@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <46C96E02.9020709@bitwisesystems.com> >(She was ready to go to Antioch herself in the late '50s when her father became ill, making it necessary for her to pick an east-coast school at a time when a trip from NYC to Yellow Springs took three days.) > > You're perhaps thinking of the late 1850s; in the late 1950s the trip took about 12 hours by car and a couple of hours by air. The Interstates weren't in yet, but for heavens' sake the Pennsylvania Turnpike had been in operation for years. I made the trip by car, air, and rail -- it was a simple overnight trip. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 08:39:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 08:39:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <46C96E02.9020709@bitwisesystems.com> Message-ID: <65dde04758686991c0f358b34834c1af@antiochians.org> >>(She was ready to go to Antioch herself in the late '50s when her father became ill, making it necessary for her to pick an east-coast school at a time when a trip from NYC to Yellow Springs took three days.) >You're perhaps thinking of the late 1850s; in the late 1950s the trip >took about 12 hours by car and a couple of hours by air. The Interstates >weren't in yet, but for heavens' sake the Pennsylvania Turnpike had been >in operation for years. I made the trip by car, air, and rail -- it was >a simple overnight trip. I'm just telling you what she told me. Maybe there was another reason. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 09:07:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 09:07:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: <1ca866378cf03c098a45710d014fbe40@www.antiochians.org> >But anyway - what you say meshes with my analysis - the Democratic party, after 1968, saw that it was facing an existential threat, and pushed by external pressures as well as internal reformers, remade itself for the better, as you claim. A fine example, and I hope it happens again soon... Wait... we are talking about progressive movement for social change arent we... Why exactly is an imperialist party being discussed? Who got us into Vietnam? Who has controled congress for the last 8 months and why are we still in Iraq? You people talk about Democracy like there actually is one in this country. In so-called democracies people vote... that doesnt happen here. Earth people... talk about planet earth From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 09:09:23 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 09:09:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <860ac420370d9f380f6ff6407ae4fab4@antiochians.org> >So he creates the chancellor position and then makes Crowfoot president. so >we can kick him around. And kick we did because they hired a guy who would >try to listen and deal, but had no power to do so and finally sort of >imploded and was last seen wandering on the beach in northern michigan >growing his beard and mumbling to himself. Because between the Guskin and >BoT above and the toxic posse below... you get flattened baby. > >Well, I don't think the object of being an Antioch College student is to >implode someone else's mind. Did making Crowfoot a mental case help build >Antioch? Please give me a freaking break. This painting of grown people with ALL OF THE POWER in the relationship -- the College presidents -- as victims of "the toxic posse" (a backhanded reference to "Horace's Posse" one of the brands the Revival movement has adopted, very clever slander there, Sally!) is tiresome, intellectually lazy and silly. >I think not. But I suppose in the era of Gingrich, Abramoff and Tom >DeLay people might think this is the way business gets done. Sad. A bunch of liberal oollege kids are compared to the Republican powers that be of the 1990s? Whatever you're smoking, I'll take $10 worth. Because it seems to make your imaginary monsters so much more SCARY! >I keep posting that up into the mid 1960's, decisions by AdCil were all made by consensus >in the fashion of a Quaker Meeting for Business. The point of that is never >to have winners or losers. You always want to move people to a built >consensus position, so that everyone accepts the consensus, knowing full well that >another issue will come up requiring yet another decision, and you want to >avoid passions moving as factions from one issue to another. You don't know much about consensus because one of the things that makes it work is the ability by any one person to block consensus. In your fantasies, AdCil operated under consensus and any one member could block the college budget or deny tenure by blocking. Such a load of revisionist crap you're unloading today! >Flattening folk >was never part of that process. Never's a big word. The Antioch College president never flattened anyone in AdCil in the halcyon 1950s? Sounds like balogna to me. Alan Benard <--- My real name. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 09:23:26 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 09:23:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: <860ac420370d9f380f6ff6407ae4fab4@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >He says don't engage anyone involved in the current passions. So Guskin's advice is a moderate, sober call to be dispassionate? In re-reading his letter, I think the advice is less sober, less moderate. Take home lesson: Why hold court with constituents that are going to be liquidated? From pas0705 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 09:37:55 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Mon Aug 20 09:38:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Guskin's "Model" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <872612.44409.qm@web63915.mail.re1.yahoo.com> > Guskin proposes a task force that should > not be based on representation from > constituencies... but it should be composed of > senior people who... are knowledgeable about Antioch > College and the University..; should be people who > are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not > personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning > effort and free to offer you the best advice > possible. Yea, they did that already. We can see how well it worked out. It was called "The Renewal Commission." Alan Guskin sat on it. Alan Guskin started something called "The Project on the Future of Higher Eduction." Michael Bassis and Gene Rice were members. He and his co-founder authored an article, published Spring 2003; hmm.. right when the Renewal commission is announced, it seems. This article is viewable on FindArticles, and is titled "Teaching and learning in a climate of restricted resources." Included is a list: "10 principles to consider when looking at more fundamental change." Lets see if this starts to look familiar at all: 1.) Create a vision of the future: identify a focused, limited, mission with major themes. Check. (2.) Audit and restructure budget allocations consistent with focused mission and major themes Check. (Capital campaign centered around renewal plan, ULC 03-04 budget cuts was a "3rd component") (3.) Audit and restructure administrative and student services systems to support major themes and reduce costs Never got that far. (4.) Audit and restructure the curriculum to reduce and focus curricular offerings to support major themes Check. (5.) Integrate technology in a manner that enhances student learning and reduces faculty workload. Check. (6.) Restructure instructional work to integrate all relevant campus professionals in the educational process Never got that far. (7.) Integrate and recognize student learning from all sources. Hell, Antioch's done that for years. (8.) Emphasize programs and systems that enhance student success and student learning Isn't that what higher ed's supposed to do in general? (9.) Create a culture of assessment Check. (10.) Restructure educational delivery system: courses, credit hours, and academic calendar Check. "The Institute on the Future of Higher Education is a group of leading thinkers and practitioners in U. S. higher education who are engaging the question: "How do we enhance student learning and faculty vitality in a climate of restricted resources?" They are developing models for undergraduate education that offer hopeful yet tangible and realistic ideas for institutional vitality." -laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 09:44:40 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 09:44:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88052e8ea3efa95e5ded25e6af615618@www.antiochians.org> >In a message dated 8/20/2007 12:49:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >gerrybello@hotmail.com writes: > > > >Well, I don't think the object of being an Antioch College student is to >implode someone else's mind. Did making Crowfoot a mental case help build >Antioch? I think not. But I suppose in the era of Gingrich, Abramoff and Tom >DeLay people might think this is the way business gets done. Well... objectively... once Crowfoot was gone enrollement went up. Crowfoot's wife once begged us (in the common room of Willet) to back off and let some of his crap slide because "you're killing him... you dont understand... he's having a mental breakdown"... Our response was to essentially tell her that if somebody cant live with the consequences of the excercise of their power perhaps they have used their power poorly.... Crowfoot was set up by Guskin. He was hired because he thought he had the skills to deal, but wound up alternating between concillation and random expulsions. In reality he was Guskin's fall guy. Fall guys... well... they fall... sorry... dont take the job if you dont like the your reporting structure. He was faced with real problems that he did not have the power to fix. When he tried to get more power he was fired. His replacement was able to positively impact the college from within the framework however I still wonder what more positive things might have happened had that president had a freer hand. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 10:02:41 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 10:02:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: <88052e8ea3efa95e5ded25e6af615618@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <128c25219a7d8fd59dc51167d243d58f@antiochians.org> Can someone talk a little bit about life under Crowfoot? I graduated in 1994, the last year with Guskin. Michael graduated 1996 but he was so wrapped up in Stan Bernstein classes/senior project stuff resulting in that being our primary focus...thanks! From pas0705 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 10:05:27 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Mon Aug 20 10:05:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: <128c25219a7d8fd59dc51167d243d58f@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <134902.97271.qm@web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- "ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)" wrote: > Can someone talk a little bit about life under > Crowfoot? I graduated in 1994, the last year with > Guskin. Michael graduated 1996 but he was so wrapped > up in Stan Bernstein classes/senior project stuff > resulting in that being our primary focus...thanks! My two biggest recollections- He would make a decision (i.e. 'yes') on something, announce it, then two days later change his mind to the other way (i.e. 'no'). He would walk to campus, picking up litter on the campus ground along the way. I used to see him in the morning out of my dorm window in Norment. That's about all I remember... :p -l ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 10:14:17 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 10:14:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: <134902.97271.qm@web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dont forget his compulsive memo writting disorder... Everyday a memo about something... usuuall something tangential and inane. rather than USE EMAIL everybody would get a memo... EVERYBODY. Every time a thought crossed this guys mind every tree in Oregon updated its will. But it also lead to some really good pranks... The "Ink color memos" and the "prespective student memos" That shit was awesome "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: Laura Fathauer >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? >Definitelyvillain! >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:05:27 -0700 (PDT) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc5-f22.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, >20 Aug 2007 07:05:30 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8166120E24;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:05:36 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com >(web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com[69.147.97.129])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) >with SMTP id 91AF86120E05for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 >10:05:34 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (qmail 2226 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Aug 2007 14:05:27 -0000 >Received: from [128.146.28.81] by web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com via HTTP;Mon, >20 Aug 2007 07:05:27 PDT >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAWhN/ll4nV9bb8qrFKy4lXWxIVZW6ssyVLeH4Axmi46ih8D/4Bx2hF5DGO4TxkUX/JpryruAyOF1w== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; >d=yahoo.com;h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID;b=oNwoqKWqiuWMahzP+fXRTLqNB7/Q2Qk3K4SK3PDVmBP1khEAj3u+pgmPojJT3GUNuWAtjSMXkn9nY6vqbiBhLsSmRD6vAstcwPJNJ/8M7I3o58+LXnXzIztKvoos9uk/wonpJSxHV3YkpH+1dM9uEG09fD9hmcFGIhHr9Zty5bw=; >X-YMail-OSG: >DgMkDAQVM1m6yyIkca9zvUsk8vaNlz1epZ3d3_Pp6Bua5qN8hTssmVdsim3YJc2LvA-- >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 14:05:31.0078 (UTC) >FILETIME=[2B306E60:01C7E333] > > >--- "ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)" > wrote: > > > Can someone talk a little bit about life under > > Crowfoot? I graduated in 1994, the last year with > > Guskin. Michael graduated 1996 but he was so wrapped > > up in Stan Bernstein classes/senior project stuff > > resulting in that being our primary focus...thanks! > >My two biggest recollections- >He would make a decision (i.e. 'yes') on something, >announce it, then two days later change his mind to >the other way (i.e. 'no'). > >He would walk to campus, picking up litter on the >campus ground along the way. I used to see him in the >morning out of my dorm window in Norment. > >That's about all I remember... :p > >-l > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! >FareChase. >http://farechase.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 10:32:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 10:32:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: <872612.44409.qm@web63915.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Alan Guskin started something called "The Project on >the Future of Higher Eduction." Michael Bassis and >Gene Rice were members. He and his co-founder authored >an article, published Spring 2003; hmm.. right when >the Renewal commission is announced, it seems. This >article is viewable on FindArticles, and is titled >"Teaching and learning in a climate of restricted >resources." Okay, so let's cut the crap about toxic students destroying Antioch. >From 1965 and Dixon's "network"... To 1973 and Dixon's over-reliance on tenuous government grants to unrealistically inflate the campus population... To 1994 and Guskin's Chancellorship and quasi-"federal" structure... To 2003 and Guskin's Renewal concept, apparently mangled in translation by the ULC/BoT...or was it? To 2007 and this dog's breakfast restructuring/gutting Guskin's sock-puppet Murdock has foisted with the collusion of Zucker's Posse.... The tale of Antioch College's failure is not one of toxic students and a roiling community. It is one of elite, detached leaders' hubris as they used the University as a laboratory for their experiments in higher-education management. Couldn't they have just run a liberal-arts college? That's all that was required of them. Alan Benard From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 11:03:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Caeli93 (caelimg@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 11:03:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] DETAILS about the AUGUST 25th Board meeting? Message-ID: <706adc6f59695a5f5a0124a902a40358@antiochians.org> I know it was announced on the aborted Webinar that the meeting would be held at the Holiday Inn At the Cincinnati Northern KY airport. However, I have yet to locate anymore logistical details (other than the breakdown of the 2 sessions). I was trying to find a post that covered this topic... but I am not finding anything? If anyone knows anything can they please post details? I have a couple of Cincinnati Alumni folks offering rides and a place to stay .... I am trying to maintain a link between our local group and the larger plans for the day. Thanks Peace Caeli93 From Sistersara at aol.com Mon Aug 20 11:17:41 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 20 11:17:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/2007 1:59:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: Well, yes. I'm not sure why you're portraying this as opposed to what I said about the Civil Rights movement, which I was speaking of only in terms of its effectiveness in bringing Civil Rights about, as something good for the world accomplished by liberals pushed by radicals. Hate to be so disagreeable, but the Civil Rights Movement of the late 50's and early 60's is all part of a larger Liberal (some might say New Deal) agenda. When the anti-lynching bills failed in Congress in the mid 1930's, it was Charles Hamilton Houston along with his student, Thurgood Marshall, who planned out the strategy of approaching Jim Crow through the courts. Both Houston and Marshall had networks of good and helpful lawyers in many cities and states, and many law schools, all of whom comprehended the strategy of moving the cases till the right ones to appeal were ripe, and then move them up. They won their big cases in the early and mid 50's -- but had no way other than a case at a time to move matters forward till the mass Civil Rights Movement emerged in the late 50's. Yes, it started with Rosa Parks in late 56, but it took time to build, by the election of 1960 it probably was the deciding issue, and by the next election the whole Senate filibuster had been broken by a huge movement, and Jim Crow, bless his bloody soul, was dead as a rat in a trap. The next year one highly public march from Selma to Montgomery AL, got us the last bit of the way -- Voting Rights. (Lyndon knew if he did not go to congress and sing "We Shall Overcome" there would have been marches in every state. He sang.) But what has to be understood is that was the whole legislative agenda -- kill Jim Crow in all his apparitions and the ultimate civil right, the right to vote, with necessary protections, were all goals of the New Deal, that had just been put off by a Southern Racist controlled Senate during all of the Roosevelt Era, and by the demands of the War during the 40's, which opened up other venues such as access to decent jobs in Unionized Industry for which J. Phillip Randolph made the push in 1941. Robert Caro in his masterful bio of Lyndon Johnson (3 of 4 promised volumes published) makes the point that within a few days of Truman beating Dewey in 1948, the whole Senate Office Building was in turmoil as analysis of results, precinct by precinct demonstrated it was the black vote in Northern States that had been projected for Dewey that were unanticipated Truman Votes. Among other things, Gallup did not know how to poll potential black voters in 1948 -- thus the unexpected. Why? Have you ever listened to Hubert Humphrey's "Sunshine Speech" at the 1948 Democratic Convention? Someone else here said that the Dixiecrats walked out in the late 60's -- no, the real walk out was in 1948 when Hubert carried the day and won the strong civil rights plank in the Democratic Platform -- and if you follow the editorials and columns in the Black Press after that event, You will get why the vote was as it was. As Caro describes it the realization in the Senate Office Building that not only had Truman been elected, but the Democrats still had a majority, and thus the Southerners still had their blessed committee chairs -- was because Northern Industrial Black Labor went to the polls and voted Democratic. (I couldn't vote in 1948 -- I was just eleven, but my first grade seat-mate could, and he was in the early 1940's a 15 year old kid who had never gone to school, never had a pair of shoes of his own, but who had a daddy who got a Union Job at the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, making 55 dollars a week plus overtime soaking tires in sulphuric acid cure. (better than sharecropping you see.). I doubt if my seat mate ever learned to really read -- at 16 he went into the shops, and at 18 he was drafted into the army. But in 48 he voted and he voted for Hubert Humphrey's Sunshine Speech and thus for Truman. I ran into him in the late 50's -- by that time he had 15+ years down at Goodyear, (when I was just starting college) but he still did not really read. Blame the State of Alabama for that -- he was their export. What I want to illustrate is that when it came to passing things like the 64 Civil Rights Bill (Hubert was majority floor leader on it) and then the 65 Voting Rights Bill -- the old legislative agenda of just the rights was really not enough -- too many people knew someone such as my first grade seat mate who had been harmed by that old system, and while affirmative action was nice, and he had a secure job, it is not really a substitute for the state providing a school where you learn to read when you are six or so. And you see, that is still a very huge problem. For all the movement did, it did not overcome past disadvantage. And it still is not making much progress in that direction if I read the reading test scores properly. Yes, back in the 60's Antiochians went to Jail in the King demonstrations. One member of my class actually got convicted of treason against the state of Georgia and spent some time on death row. (sadly (for Georgia Justice) no such crime). Others got shot at while attempting to register people to vote. And others such as myself spent time organizing Catholics and Lutherans in Minnesota to demand justice. But by 65 what could be done legislatively was done -- the rest required time, organization, dialogue, and much else. Thus the shift of Liberals to opposition to the War in Vietnam -- some just that war, others more broadly on Foreign Policy. Women in the Civil Rights movement reacted strongly against the male dominance in the movements -- both civil rights and war -- and that morphed into the Feminist movement that has many other origins too. The saying "NO" to the cops at Stonewall certainly was influenced in 1969 by what had gone before, but for Gays what had gone before was an underground and barely emerging overground movement. How all these are related -- there are books on all of it, but what is really missing is just making it part of pure mainstream American History. Now as to Antioch and Civil Rights. I wish I had taken a camera with me, but didn't -- I still don't have a digital, and my old stuff weighs about ten pounds -- but in 1966 I was a delegate to the White House Conference on Civil Rights -- the big celebration of accomplishment, and because I then worked for the Conference on Religion and Race and the Minnesota Council on Religion and Race, I had a host table at the banquet where Lyndon Johnson spoke. My table included National Council of Churches representatives, and the honored guest was the first black RC Bishop from the New Orleans Diocese in the US. As we were doing dessert and coffee and awaiting Johnson's arrival, I pointed out to the Bishop that half of the head table were either alumni or very close associates with my college. Afterwards, I took him to the host suites to meet some of them. How many remember Appeals Judge Higginbotham? Yes, Coretta deserves much recognition, but so does he. Yes, half of that head table had something to do with Antioch -- it is very multi-dimensional. When Antioch made it possible for Coretta to attend both the Democratic and the Progressive Party Conventions in Philadelphia in 1948 when she was just finishing her freshman year, to hear both Hubert Humphrey's "Sunshine Speech" and also the songs of Paul Robeson at the Henry Wallace Progressive Party do, Antioch was thinking ahead. It certainly wasn't planned or scripted, but it was with the times. But for the most part, those missions are done. The potential victories for Humanity have been won. New ones are out there. What are they? and how do we reorganize so as to create the culture that will win them? Back in the 1970's I helped my parents and some of their friends host a reunion of a really odd bunch of folk, but essentially it was Jewish and Socialist refugees from Nazi Germany who they had helped resettle, move into either industry jobs or teaching jobs, or ultimately (guess what) OSS Jobs. 75 families were part of the whole thing, well that is the refugee families, there were about 90 host families who had participated one way or another. They had decided on 1974, August because too many were getting old, and would not make another ten years. This was a group of people who were young married types early in the depression, had absolutely no money, who were labor activists and who were moved by a Social Democratic rep from the Exiled party of Germany in Paris, and who figured out how to move the first couple they heard about to the US, and then just kept at it for years. 75 families against what ultimately happened is not a whole lot, but who knew? I doubt if what they did would have allowed for many more. The system was fairly slick -- the first refugee was recruited to catalogue research materials for Akron University(Buchtal College) which had just established a grad degree in what is locally called "rubber science" -- otherwise organic chemistry. The materials all came from the ad hoc collections of the 5 major Rubber Companies, all of whom were supporting the Akron U Major. (Jealously). Much of the science lit was in German, because the Germans were light years ahead in both Rubber Science and Organic Chem. (Light Bulb) -- why not hire German Chemists to run these experiments in your labs, modify just a little, claim a patent, and off and running. Well why not???? The little local committee found a way to do this all around the quota matter, for if both the War Department and the Labor Department agreed that something was a war critical material, visas could be issued outside the quota. Synthetic Rubber, Rayon and Nylon were precisely that, so these guys had their approach. They used it. But the one I liked best was Old Father Walsh's role in it all. For the Reunion, I went to Cleveland and brought him down from his retirement home. He was a jack of all trades at John Carroll University, sometimes dean of students, sometimes head of education, several times acting President, -- but essentially he was a Hard coal miners son from the coal fields of PA who became a priest, but never forgot where he came from. He had met up with the labor oriented folk moving jewish organic chemists to the research labs in Akron in the mid 30's when they all were introduced by John L. Lewis when he was on an organizing tour with the Rubber Workers. Walsh looked at the particulars, and thought he could help. He could classify jobs in Christian Brothers High Schools so as to make them visa appropriate, I think he did something like 15 families-- maybe a few more, Again -- in the face of what happened, not a lot, just a little bit. But the Bishop in Cleveland was a very hard nosed anti-Union type who strongly supported the Radio Priest, Father Coughlin, and of course our Coal Miner's son was not exactly in agreement. Walsh had the most wonderful stories about speaking in the bars in E. Cleveland during the Fisher Body Strike, and making certain that his identity was never known to his Bishop. But what the Bishop would really have gone nuts about was Walsh moving German Jewish teachers into the Christian Brother's schools around Northern Ohio. Yep, a visa for 4 sessions of science or math , and one of German Lit in German -- even though his schools did not teach German. That was worth a visa that combined with a very minimalist job, was a way out. And yes, most of them went to OSS as soon as they got an offer as translators. So in 74 we brought them all together for a reunion, though many did not actually know each other before the event. The 90 families who participated (and like me, were sort of born into it all) and the people I always had just assumed as family friends. Yes -- we had the guy who led the anti-Nazi movement at the University of Berlin -- served some time in a labor camp, but he was in the German sense of things, Polish, so along with his Berlin wife and child made his way out via then independent Austria and Switzerland and on to France, and then to Akron Ohio -- where the locals made him a bell hop at a salesman's hotel (such needed multiable languages after all.), at the bottom of the depression, and the local committee folk taught him some English on the curb. Eventually he became the director of the local art museum, (that was his Berlin Degree) and before retirement he would do two Central European 17th and 18th century exhibits at the Cleveland Museum of Art and write the exhibit guides -- which is a long way from -- well maybe you could buy and sell a little and have a small gallery as a Polish Jew in Berlin. (Well he was born German before WW I It was the treaty that made him Polish.) One of the families that could not be present for the 74 Reunion were folk I had visited in E. Germany when I was AEA. I visited on Our Thanksgiving, and with a lot of work I took the whole meal for ten into E. Germany from Denmark. She was Jewish, her husband was not, but the 5th generation of engineers doing water pipes and sewers and the like, but they had married in the late 20's, and her husband had managed their migration. Both of her children were US born, and thus had left E. Germany, one to Ohio State, and the other to W. Germany. The Husband was the only surviving child of this family of engineers, (two brothers killed in Russia) but the family firm had been collectivized, so while they lived in the grand old house with extended family, someone was watching everything. I gathered they were particularly interested in this woman with a dead bird coming in from Denmark for some sort of celebration. We made Cranberry sauce, we made pumpkin pies, we made jello rings with cherries, cranberries and walnuts and mayo dressing. (god, how Akron can you get) but I remember unpacking the herbs for the dressing, and the "good lord's" we haven't seen that for years. My Mom had found someone in the US Embassy willing to supply me with the turkey --- in Kobenhavn, and I think it was a 25 pounder. But I only had dressing for about 12 pounds -- so it was an interesting stretch using various forms of E. German bread. Celery??? ypu had to bring that from Denmark. Onions, no problem. Parsley -- we had to do with what I had brought. And then yes -- I need six eggs to finish it off. Six Eggs!!! yes, six eggs. It was finished off smartly, and the carcass went into the soup pot the next day. This was a very special part of my AEA experience, but what my hostess wanted me to reproduce for her family (particularly her husband's family) was Thanksgiving in Akron where she and her children and husband had been welcome to survive the Hitler years and the War Years. I did the best I could with what was in Danish shops and that I could get my mother to organize through the embassy, and my spice order. Things like the home made corn relish and the various sorts of pickles were left off -- I did manage black olives. While they could not get a visa to come to the reunion in 1974, I did get them to make a recording that we played. I only wish they had lived to 89 and freedom to travel. But then virtually everyone they knew were also dead. But they could have also seen their sons again and their son's families. For those of us who went AEA in the 50's this was a not unusual experience. As Americans we had ease in crossing borders. We could easily visit. We had easy memory of all sorts of past times. It is really hard to imagine a generation of Antiochians who do not essentially know the history of all this. The simple idea that Antiochians would need to be shown Shoah in class just befuddles me. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 11:39:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 11:39:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Warren--thank you so much! I've already sent in one check and plan to send more. Thanks for the words of support. MS From warren at antioch-college.edu Mon Aug 20 11:30:35 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Mon Aug 20 11:41:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the nice message, and for the support. Here's to a great year! best, Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Monday, August 20, 2007 at 11:39 AM wrote: >Hi Warren--thank you so much! I've already sent in one check and plan to >send more. Thanks for the words of support. >MS > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From Sistersara at aol.com Mon Aug 20 11:41:43 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 20 11:42:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/2007 8:07:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: You people talk about Democracy like there actually is one in this country. In so-called democracies people vote... that doesnt happen here. Earth people... talk about planet earth Well I thought being involved and managing women's campaigns for the state legislature over the years was worth what I put into it. 2 when I started, nearly 2/5ths now. Growing. I have done 25 campaigns. I also consider my two years volunteer work involved in electing Paul Wellstone to the US Senate very worth what I put in. Everyone I knew in Politics thought I was a fool. Once in a lifetime you get the chance to say, well, I was not a fool. And that was in November 1990. Have you got a campaign where you got a similar outcome? Do you have any idea what it takes to beat 11 million dollars in the bank with just a little over 1 million? Didn't think so. No campaigns like that recently. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 11:46:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 11:46:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2841d53081ef51a17ac4ca2a66390002@antiochians.org> Hi--I didn't find it odd at all. In fact, in an early post I mentioned I had already given--and I plan to give more. I think parents are a good group to try and mobilize--granted we are paying tuition which is a major expense but we also are invested in our children and the future of the college. Also, I am an academic, and I am appalled by what has happened, so I naturally feel an affinity with the faculty. In addition, donating money, including small sums, is really emphasized in the Jewish tradition I was raised in. I think it is always fine to ask for money, assuming it is then up to the giver.Miriam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 12:18:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 12:18:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <2841d53081ef51a17ac4ca2a66390002@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <1e45413d6971c95d74ea13343f45b34b@antiochians.org> Thanks for this thoughtful reply and your willingness to make a donation. There is a couple in town (Yellow Springs), 2 academics, who held a little gathering of faculty from area colleges and raised some money to support the Faculty Legal Fund. I look forward to seeing your daughter around town. Does she babysit?:-) As to the issue of asking parents of students to give money, this is standard practice at most colleges since the belief is that it often instills philanthropic awareness. Antioch has never launched that sort of campaign but has at various times asked graduating classes to make a class gift. Callie >Hi--I didn't find it odd at all. In fact, in an early post I mentioned I had already given--and I plan to give more. I think parents are a good group to try and mobilize--granted we are paying tuition which is a major expense but we also are invested in our children and the future of the college. >Also, I am an academic, and I am appalled by what has happened, so I naturally feel an affinity with the faculty. >In addition, donating money, including small sums, is really emphasized in the Jewish tradition I was raised in. I think it is always fine to ask for money, assuming it is then up to the giver.Miriam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 12:19:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 12:19:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >Deb, does your employer find it strange that legal secretaries in their firm are dispensing questionable legal advise? Hey Rascal, stop it. Legal secs are the backbone of firms and often quite knowledgeable about the law and the processes that really are the law. Not that I have ever agreed with Deb but that is not because she is a legal sec. She has just as much right to pontificate about legal issues as anyone else. Again, she is wrong about everything but the private life should stay that way. From theodora at imbris.com Mon Aug 20 13:01:20 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Mon Aug 20 12:57:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. Message-ID: Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this crisis is just plain touching. When you said something like "whatever happens, it's bound to be a highly educational year" I melted. That's the true Antioch faith and spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch education. While the rest of us make noise, you (and another mother) take simple action, so your child can have the experience, however brief. I love it. Wouldn't it be a scream if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of us alumni should register. At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about politics, and I find, listening to everyone's descriptions of the administration, etc., that I still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send the rest of us out to win victories and live on the edge. No better than all the insurance company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can line their pockets. I was right in my very first post: The world IS going to the dogs! People like Miriam will save it. Pam From davidallenusa at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 13:02:53 2007 From: davidallenusa at yahoo.com (YAZZ ALLEN) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:03:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit filed Aug. 14: Details In-Reply-To: <20070820153950.866C36121217@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <368165.20325.qm@web52003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> August 20, 07 Hi from Yazz Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.com Here are details about the Antioch College faculty law suit just filed in the Green County OHIO courts against the Antioch University Board Of Trustees effort to close down Antioch College completely in July 2008. The Antioch Alumni Association to date (Aug. 20, 07) has neither initiated nor planned specific and separate legal action opposing the Antioch College closedown. No lawyers have been hired, no planning has been done, no action engaged in. No money raised by the Alumni Association has been spent on legal action so far. More than 2 months have passed since the closedown announcement on June 12, 07. The YELLOW SPRINGS NEWS has reported fact about the faculty law suit: ------------------- On Tuesday, Aug. 14, members of the Antioch College faculty filed for a permanent injunction against the Antioch University Board of Trustees. The legal action aims to prevent the university from suspending college operations, terminating faculty and disposing of college assets. The lawsuit was filed in the Greene County Common Pleas Court by Evan Price, Columbus attorney in the firm of Bailey Cavalieri, which represents the faculty. The university has 28 days to make an official response, according to faculty spokesperson Anne Bohlen on Tuesday. The faculty action comes after the trustees announced on June 12 that the college would close in July 2008, with the possibility of re-opening four years later. The trustees stated the college would close due to a state of financial exigency caused by declining enrollments and lack of fund-raising. According to a statement released by faculty, Tuesday?s legal action was necessary because the board ?failed to govern the institution properly.? The statement also says that the board?s public refusal to reconsider its decision to close the college prompted faculty to take legal action ?to immediately prevent further damage to the nationally renowned college and the surrounding community.? ?Antioch College has offered a very distinctive, high-quality liberal arts education for the past 155 years and we, the faculty, are committed to keeping it going,? Bohlen stated. Specifically, the lawsuit states that the board ?breached their contractual responsibilities? by declaring the state of financial exigency when less drastic measures for addressing the financial crisis were available. The suit also alleges that the university violated contractual obligations that require consultation with college faculty, as set forth in the faculty personnel policies and procedures. The university also violated contract obligations by causing extensive external publicity regarding internal college financial affairs, according to the suit, which further states that university board decisions in 2004 and 2005 caused serious damage to college enrollment prospects, leading to a rapid decline in revenue. The lawsuit asks that the university be prevented from liquidating or dispersing college assets, including ?College buildings (three of which are historic landmarks), the College Endowment, its land holdings, Antioch Education Abroad, the recently-opened Coretta Scott King Center and the Glen Helen Nature Preserve.? according to the statement. The Antioch College faculty of about 40 people stands behind the lawsuit, according to Bohlen. The group has been raising money for legal fees and has raised ?thousands of dollars,? she said. On Tuesday evening, Antioch University spokesperson Mary Lou LaPierre said the university had not yet received notice of the injunction. This week the Antioch College faculty received formal support from the American Association of University Professors, or AAUP, in a letter to Antioch University Chancellor Toni Murdock, Board Chair Art Zucker and College President Steven Lawry, raising concerns about the university?s actions. ?The concerns are serious enough to warrant our specific thoughts and recommendations to the administration,? according to Dr. Jonathon Knight, AAUP director of the program for academic freedom and tenure, in an interview this week. ?We were deeply surprised and disappointed to learn that members of the faculty were not consulted prior to the board?s actions with regard either to the declaration of financial exigency or to the suspension of operations, and that, in fact, they were not informed of these actions until three days later at a campus meeting on June 12,? the AAUP letter stated. ?Faculty members allege that the board?s lack of consultation is part of what they perceive as a pattern of disregard for the faculty?s legitimate role in institutional decision making for the past several years.? The AAUP?s interest stems from the group?s ?longstanding concern for sound academic government,? the letter states, citing the AAUP?s Statement on Government of Colleges and Universities, which was co-written by the American Council on Education and the Association of Governing Board of Universities and Colleges. That publication cites the premise of an ?inescapable interdependence? in the relationship among governing board, administration and faculty which calls for ?adequate communication among these components and full opportunity for appropriate joint effort,? the letter states. Furthermore, procedural standards set out in the AAUP?s Recommended Institutional Regulations on Academic Freedom and Tenure clarify that the declaration of a state of financial exigency should be made only after consultation with and ?meaningful involvement? with faculty. According to Knight this week, the AAUP has never before heard of a situation in which a college closes down with the intention of re-opening in several years. ?I don?t think we?ve ever seen this before,? he said. The letter states that, should the college close and reopen, ?we hope and expect that it will do so with a tenure system intact and with a sense of its continuing obligation to the current college faculty with regard to reinstatement. We also expect that the faculty will have a meaningful role in the governance of a reopened college.? --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... Read my writing about the 2007 Antioch College Crisis on WWW.AntiRecord.Org, oldest Antioch College interest/watchdog website (est. 1998) "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 13:04:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:04:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <671d45101981d1d0ae8b6bbfdffbb34a@www.antiochians.org> >In a message dated 8/20/2007 8:07:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: > >You people talk about Democracy like there actually is one in this country. >In so-called democracies people vote... that doesnt happen here. > >Earth people... talk about planet earth > > > > >Well I thought being involved and managing women's campaigns for the state >legislature over the years was worth what I put into it. 2 when I started, >nearly 2/5ths now. Growing. I have done 25 campaigns. > >I also consider my two years volunteer work involved in electing Paul >Wellstone to the US Senate very worth what I put in. Everyone I knew in Politics >thought I was a fool. Once in a lifetime you get the chance to say, well, I >was not a fool. And that was in November 1990. > >Have you got a campaign where you got a similar outcome? Do you have any >idea what it takes to beat 11 million dollars in the bank with just a little >over 1 million? > >Didn't think so. No campaigns like that recently. > > > >************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at >http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Drop the rhetoricals Sally it just makes people dislike you. As for Shoa having to be shown at all, even people who are knowledgeable about the shoa benefited from knowing the precise and mundane details of (using that battered phrase) the banality of evil. When I was at Antioch, despite a sizeable Jewish corp of students and teachers it was a daily battle to fight the conflation of the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and the shoa as moral (let alone statistical) equivalents. However, I find a great deal of your well written and thought out position on the role of the CRM on the DP to be in sharp opposition to the "accepted" narrative offered by say Taylor Branch. I suppose it is likely that historians tend to assume that the central topic of their disertation is also the nexus of world events. So Caro views LBJ and the D-party and Branch views Dr King as as the central agent of change in those years. An interesting disscusion, and Rowan made a very competent argument and addition to the conversation that you chose to dismiss without even cursory review. If I am mistaken, correct me, but it seems to me that you don't have much respect for the views of those younger than you, particularly those Antiochians that are are younger. Oh and by the by, there is a campaign like that right now going on at a little college, in a little town, in Ohio. Travis From jdavid at coldren.net Mon Aug 20 13:10:51 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:12:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Guskin's "Model" In-Reply-To: <872612.44409.qm@web63915.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <872612.44409.qm@web63915.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016f01c7e34d$112a72d0$337f5870$@net> Laura, I'm not sure what you mean by "check." Am I to understand that the principles "checked" are among those in the Renewal Commission's report or that the principles checked have been understood as satisfactorily answered by the various Antioch constituencies? If, as I hope, the College has been operating with a clearly written statement that address these principles, I think that statement needs to be made available to the Alumni to help us comprehend the current "vision of the future [with] a focused, limited, mission with major themes." et al. J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Laura Fathauer Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 8:38 AM To: Alumni Chat List Subject: [Alumni-chat] Guskin's "Model" > Guskin proposes a task force that should > not be based on representation from > constituencies... but it should be composed of > senior people who... are knowledgeable about Antioch > College and the University..; should be people who > are not beholden to any group at Antioch, not > personally impacted by the outcomes of the planning > effort and free to offer you the best advice > possible. Yea, they did that already. We can see how well it worked out. It was called "The Renewal Commission." Alan Guskin sat on it. Alan Guskin started something called "The Project on the Future of Higher Eduction." Michael Bassis and Gene Rice were members. He and his co-founder authored an article, published Spring 2003; hmm.. right when the Renewal commission is announced, it seems. This article is viewable on FindArticles, and is titled "Teaching and learning in a climate of restricted resources." Included is a list: "10 principles to consider when looking at more fundamental change." Lets see if this starts to look familiar at all: 1.) Create a vision of the future: identify a focused, limited, mission with major themes. Check. (2.) Audit and restructure budget allocations consistent with focused mission and major themes Check. (Capital campaign centered around renewal plan, ULC 03-04 budget cuts was a "3rd component") (3.) Audit and restructure administrative and student services systems to support major themes and reduce costs Never got that far. (4.) Audit and restructure the curriculum to reduce and focus curricular offerings to support major themes Check. (5.) Integrate technology in a manner that enhances student learning and reduces faculty workload. Check. (6.) Restructure instructional work to integrate all relevant campus professionals in the educational process Never got that far. (7.) Integrate and recognize student learning from all sources. Hell, Antioch's done that for years. (8.) Emphasize programs and systems that enhance student success and student learning Isn't that what higher ed's supposed to do in general? (9.) Create a culture of assessment Check. (10.) Restructure educational delivery system: courses, credit hours, and academic calendar Check. "The Institute on the Future of Higher Education is a group of leading thinkers and practitioners in U. S. higher education who are engaging the question: "How do we enhance student learning and faculty vitality in a climate of restricted resources?" They are developing models for undergraduate education that offer hopeful yet tangible and realistic ideas for institutional vitality." -laura ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 13:21:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:22:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <1ca866378cf03c098a45710d014fbe40@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <87a862800bf3a4bf94a08c444031d654@www.antiochians.org> >>But anyway - what you say meshes with my analysis - the Democratic party, after 1968, saw that it was facing an existential threat, and pushed by external pressures as well as internal reformers, remade itself for the better, as you claim. A fine example, and I hope it happens again soon... >Wait... we are talking about progressive movement for social change arent we... > > >Why exactly is an imperialist party being discussed? > >Who got us into Vietnam? > >Who has controled congress for the last 8 months and why are we still in Iraq? > >You people talk about Democracy like there actually is one in this country. In so-called democracies people vote... that doesnt happen here. > >Earth people... talk about planet earth Well, I was engaging Sistersara on her terms - she believed that the reforms she mentioned helped to make the Democratic party better and more representative, and I suppose, in that fashion, the DP would be better for the world. This is perhaps theoretically possible, but I said "I hope it happens again" cause the DP still hasn't achieved whatever promise it's supposed to have. I don't particularly expect it to. But I have no problem with the internal DP reformers, so long as they don't attack me as a traitor for believing it's better to work outside to achieve progressive social change. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 13:27:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:27:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] DETAILS about the AUGUST 25th Board meeting? In-Reply-To: <706adc6f59695a5f5a0124a902a40358@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Caeli, I don't know the breakdown of what's going to happen precisely, except that I believe that Sat. morning is the open sessions? Also, Catherine Jordan is coordinating a meeting in Kelly Hall afterward--but she's away from her email right now. Connect with Judy Maldonado in YS about traveling etc. Thanks! --Christian >I know it was announced on the aborted Webinar that the meeting would be held at the Holiday Inn At the Cincinnati Northern KY airport. > >However, I have yet to locate anymore logistical details (other than the breakdown of the 2 sessions). > >I was trying to find a post that covered this topic... but I am not finding anything? > >If anyone knows anything can they please post details? > >I have a couple of Cincinnati Alumni folks offering rides and a place to stay .... > >I am trying to maintain a link between our local group and the larger plans for the day. > >Thanks >Peace >Caeli93 From theodora at imbris.com Mon Aug 20 13:50:18 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:46:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] hero or villain Message-ID: Gerry Bello said: Liberals may be around to co-opt, self-credit and accept concessions, but radicals force the change. Gerry, I think you're probably right that the radicals bring the liberals to action. What I have a problem with is when the radicals resort to "devaluing" the "enemy." King and Ghandi were exceptional insofar as they helped to bring about social change without doing this. Mark has a point aobut doing it within the system. Although systems do a lot to serve themselves and maintain their status quo, King found a way to use the system legally to make his point, and he won. He won BECAUSE the system ultimately had to support him, given our constitution. You are also using the legal system in this particular cause. And I will never forget this scene from the movie about Ghandi: a man came to him sobbing, confessing that he had killed a child who belonged to the "enemy" religion. Ghandi said to him that for his redemption, he must go find an orphaned child from that religion and raise him IN THAT RELIGION! Radicals who devalue the other side are, in my opinion, destroying the world, not making a better one. 9/11 happens, so Bush reacts by starting a war, killing hundreds of thousands. So the insurgents react, well, you all know the rest. Radicals in Palestine just get the walls built higher and the cage more secure. I feel a lot of compassion for them, having to live in a cage, but when they send another car bomb into Israel, well, heck, what do they expect? And when Israel responds in kind, leading to more car bombs, what do they expect? I think it's all stupid myself. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it hasn't worked for CENTURIES! My husband worked in Bosnia for a year, in '96, doing some post-war reconstruction, and he said that what has happened there is that they are raising sociopaths, raising kids to hate and kill. I guess it's happening all over the world now. That's not progress. We're all humans on the same planet, and we're going to destroy it and ourselves if we don't get that straight, and soon. Legal action for justice, that's fine. Finding the mistakes that other people make and trying to correct them, that's fine. But if any of us makes the mistake of devaluing them in the process, then I think we've become no better than them, and it just won't work. We are also sinners. We all "miss the mark" in some way. If we can't ALL do some self-examination and see how we've all contributed to Antioch's demise, as we try and correct or recover from the mistakes of others, we probably won't get very far. Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 13:50:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (erik (36invisible@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:50:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit filed Aug. 14: Details In-Reply-To: <368165.20325.qm@web52003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >August 20, 07 > >Hi from Yazz Allen! >Contact me directly at YazzAllen [at] Yahoo [dot] com > >Here are details about the Antioch College faculty law suit just filed in the Green County OHIO courts against the Antioch University Board Of Trustees effort to close down Antioch College completely in July 2008. > >The Antioch Alumni Association to date (Aug. 20, 07) has neither initiated nor planned specific and separate legal action opposing the Antioch College closedown. No lawyers have been hired, no planning has been done, no action engaged in. > >No money raised by the Alumni Association has been spent on legal action so far. More than 2 months have passed since the closedown announcement on June 12, 07. Thankfully the Faculty are taking action, walking-the-walk, and refusing to just lay down and play "wait and see what happens." I think we should all applaud them, support their action, put it in the forefront of our own outreaches, and encourage (demand) the Alumni Association follow suit. Good post Y.A. e From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 13:57:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 13:57:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <143bd15803e12e86de8f383b1c2ab438@www.antiochians.org> Its called "Pragmatic Idealism" and it was the theme of Al's innagural and it is just as much an oxymoron now as it was then. It presumes that only you (him, Toni, whoever) know the answer for how to attain the greatest good and that the pragmatism part meant you could not include anybody else in the decision making process because it would muddy your (his, Toni's, whoever's) ideal outcome. He did a better job of paying lipservice to dissent and made them, sometimes feel like they were on the inside, with him as it were and then he would whamo you with a solution to a problem that had nothing to do with any of the options that were discussed. To review it is pragmatic to realize that you can not achieve your ideals in a pure form therefore you must make compromises. The compromise that Al advocates is the evisceration of community input and the demotion of community members to, at best, priveleged intinerents and employees. I find it counter to most of Sally's other posts that she advocates using people unconnected to the issue to resolve the problem. This is non-sensical in the "real world" she and Thelma yawn on about, where even the most retrograde middle manager knows that top-down change rarely produces value and eventually leads to pointless, epxensive and damaging bloodletting. Use almost any corporate merger you can think of in the past twenty years and most of them result in zero or negative gain in equity for the average shareholder and certainly a negative outcome for employees who are suddenly redundant and even greater stresses for those who stay take on the extra-work. This point of view in higher (or primary) education is appaling. The best schools are the ones that evolve and grow from the inside, the little ideas that catch fire and work their way up (like McGregor for instance). Even our toddler's Montesorri school works on a cooperative model and the parents really work hand in hand with the teachers to create business plans etc. etc. Again, look at the premier schools and you will find that their success rides on a faculty that controls the curriculum, degree granting and the BoT and Administration focus on raising money and attracting students. Harvard eats presidents who presume to tell the faculty what and how to teach and yet by most people's (not mine) standards Harvard is the best of the best. As a consultant (not claim to personal authority here) I have to say that most of what I offer to clients is stuff they already know and have known. Most consultants I have seen are the same way, they do not offer a new concept, the reorder old ones and call them new paradigms but the people on the ground almost always have the answer and the keys to success. It has been well documented by now that each and every precipitous decline in Antioch enrollment has resulted from a major curriculum change imposed from the top down. I agree with Alan, it is the absurd theoretical, disspasionate view and supposedly cool headed rational view of administrators that keeps Antioch down and constantly reinventing. Change and evolution are neccesary for survival, but shouldn't we embrace slightly, dare I say it? conservative view change. Radical re-invention seems to have only helped once, with Morgan and my friends, Toni is no Morgan. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 14:15:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:15:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit filed Aug. 14: Details In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>August 20, 07 >> >>Hi from Yazz Allen! >>Contact me directly at YazzAllen [at] Yahoo [dot] com >> >>Here are details about the Antioch College faculty law suit just filed in the Green County OHIO courts against the Antioch University Board Of Trustees effort to close down Antioch College completely in July 2008. >> >>The Antioch Alumni Association to date (Aug. 20, 07) has neither initiated nor planned specific and separate legal action opposing the Antioch College closedown. No lawyers have been hired, no planning has been done, no action engaged in. >> >>No money raised by the Alumni Association has been spent on legal action so far. More than 2 months have passed since the closedown announcement on June 12, 07. >Thankfully the Faculty are taking action, walking-the-walk, and refusing to just lay down and play "wait and see what happens." I think we should all applaud them, support their action, put it in the forefront of our own outreaches, and encourage (demand) the Alumni Association follow suit. > >Good post Y.A. > >e While I think the Alumni Board should be much more proactive, public and louder, no one on the AB is paid to do this work. Neccecarily things are taking longer than they should and suffer the watering down of committee work and despite the hype, teleconfrencing. But Yazz please do share exactly the legal action you think the AA should take. Finding the correct grounds for legal action if any and not precluding less expensive solutions than a lawsuit seem to me to be the only course of action for the AA. The Faculty have unique and particular standing because of their contract with the university, while I hate to agree with certain people on the forums, the legal precedents for Alumni Associations is not particularly encouraging but I also believe there are other avenues to pursue. Also, as Alan has taken pains, many times, to point out, the AA revival fund is now a 501(c)(3) and as such can not give money to individuals or organizations whose purpose is not consistent with the 501(c)(3). I know, I know, you think if the faculty win this furthers the aims of the 501(c)(3) right? Not neccesarily: the faculty suit could be resolved in their favor and the college could still close because the University could abide by the terms of the contract and still find an financial exigency. Give money to the faculty fund. Give money to the revival fund, give supplies to the record etc etc etc. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 14:20:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:21:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Again, my apologies that your private life has been thrust into your public life. >This comment is just too funny. Is there a *bit* of irony in this comment being made to the woman who publishes hearsay concerning the sex life of a faculty member to her college alumni listserv? I have been advised about this off-line by others and I agree it was inappropriate. However that doesn't mean we should stoop to that or that you should make disparaging remarks about Deb's profesion. Would you be more respectful if she had a JD and offered the same lousy advice? This credentialism is bullshit. From dlbahr at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 14:22:44 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:23:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday August 20, 2007 alan bernard wrote: >leaders' hubris as they used the University as a laboratory for their >experiments in higher-education management. > Yes, and when Guskin made himself Chancellor and Crowfoot remained president for a VERY short tenure and longstanding BoT's jumping ship back in mid 1990's (vonMatthissen for one--any others?) Chancellor Guskin quickly stepped down and retired to Seattle. There was also a 7 year effort by Katy Jako to bring about Antioch College's independence with pages of alumni signing up. Who at the College chose not to work with AIF? Who preferred Al's master plan? Was it just the BoT? Who has characterized AIF as elitist snobs? Yes, Alan, Antioch has become a laboratory for experimentation in higher education management on ALL fronts including AC leadership over the years. There have been plenty who got salaries and expense accounts who did not do their job. At least BoT are volunteers. >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 From pas0705 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 14:28:43 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:28:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Guskin's "Model" In-Reply-To: <016f01c7e34d$112a72d0$337f5870$@net> Message-ID: <777994.21296.qm@web63910.mail.re1.yahoo.com> The principles are out of Guskin's paper. What I meant is as I framed it prior to the introduction of the principles- looking at the work that came out of the Renewal Commission, which of the principles seemed to apply to what the Commission did. I won't go on and interpret each and every point-just read through the final report with these 10 points in mind. Someone with more time could provide report references that fit in with each of the principles. It is quite startlingly obvious, to me at least, that Guskin's "expertise" and or "research" in this area was integral to the outcomes of the Commission. I have another reference I'll post later today that frames the work of the commission even more... -laura --- "J. David Coldren" wrote: > Laura, > > I'm not sure what you mean by "check." Am I to > understand that the > principles "checked" are among those in the Renewal > Commission's report > J. David Coldren '65 > > > > Included is a list: "10 principles to consider when > looking at more fundamental change." > > Lets see if this starts to look familiar at all: > > 1.) Create a vision of the future: identify a > focused, > limited, mission with major themes. > > Check. > > (2.) Audit and restructure budget allocations > consistent with focused mission and major themes > > Check. (Capital campaign centered around renewal > plan, > ULC 03-04 budget cuts was a "3rd component") > > (3.) Audit and restructure administrative and > student > services systems to support major themes and reduce > costs > > Never got that far. > > (4.) Audit and restructure the curriculum to reduce > and focus curricular offerings to support major > themes > > Check. > > (5.) Integrate technology in a manner that enhances > student learning and reduces faculty workload. > > Check. > > (6.) Restructure instructional work to integrate all > relevant campus professionals in the educational > process > > Never got that far. > > (7.) Integrate and recognize student learning from > all > sources. > > Hell, Antioch's done that for years. > > (8.) Emphasize programs and systems that enhance > student success and student learning > > Isn't that what higher ed's supposed to do in > general? > > (9.) Create a culture of assessment > > Check. > > (10.) Restructure educational delivery system: > courses, credit hours, and academic calendar > > Check. > > "The Institute on the Future of Higher Education is > a > group of leading thinkers and practitioners in U. S. > higher education who are engaging the question: "How > do we enhance student learning and faculty vitality > in > a climate of restricted resources?" They are > developing models for undergraduate education that > offer hopeful yet tangible and realistic ideas for > institutional vitality." > > -laura > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ________ > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and > hotels with Yahoo! > FareChase. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ From dawn at mediawonk.com Mon Aug 20 14:35:36 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:36:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Parents on the alumni Chat List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Someone wrote... "Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat?" Nope. Especially not when that particular parent demonstrated their support for keeping the college open. (In fact she sounded like an Antiochian to me.) She said: "...But on the positive side, I know this will be an educational year like no other. I think we can expect an adventure--and there seems to be a lot of good will from faculty, staff, etc". Gotta love THAT attitude. Thanks to Miriam and all the other parents who are supporting the college this year. Dawn, Class of '83 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 14:44:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:44:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honesty and Truth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8a1c76251b0bceab55d59beec1d4c420@www.antiochians.org> >>>Again, my apologies that your private life has been thrust into your public life. >>This comment is just too funny. Is there a *bit* of irony in this comment being made to the woman who publishes hearsay concerning the sex life of a faculty member to her college alumni listserv? >I have been advised about this off-line by others and I agree it was inappropriate. However that doesn't mean we should stoop to that or that you should make disparaging remarks about Deb's profesion. Would you be more respectful if she had a JD and offered the same lousy advice? This credentialism is bullshit. I would have been less nice because somebody with a JD would know that is a bunch of crap and would be lying as opposed to merely talking out their ass. And for the record when I need a legal question answered I ASK A REAL LAWYER. I did it 3 times just today. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 14:45:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:46:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >On Monday August 20, 2007 alan bernard wrote: > > >>>leaders' hubris as they used the University as a laboratory for their >>>experiments in higher-education management. >>Yes, and when Guskin made himself Chancellor and Crowfoot remained president >>for a VERY short tenure and longstanding BoT's jumping ship back in mid >>1990's (vonMatthissen for one--any others?) Chancellor Guskin quickly >>stepped down and retired to Seattle. There was also a 7 year effort by Katy >>Jako to bring about Antioch College's independence with pages of alumni >>signing up. Who at the College chose not to work with AIF? Who preferred >>Al's master plan? Was it just the BoT? Who has characterized AIF as >>elitist snobs? Yes, Alan, Antioch has become a laboratory for >>experimentation in higher education management on ALL fronts including AC >>leadership over the years. There have been plenty who got salaries and >>expense accounts who did not do their job. At least BoT are volunteers. If you're talking about your favorite whipping boy, I'm pretty sure he was too busy raising funds and increasing enrollment while suffering from the effects of chemotherapy to write white papers about higher education management and then radically restructure entire universities on a whim. Whipping boy always struck me as a conservative gradualist. I do know that during the brief time we discussed Dr. Guskin he was curious as to the source of my distrust and anger. I'm not sure he appreciated it -- I've heard he and Dr. Guskin got along pretty well. I'm sure sure he'd appreciate what have to say about Dr. Guskin now. Reasonable people can disagree. By the way, your team's favorite way of whipping Whipping Boy and his friends -- snarky comments about integrity and insinuations about alleged wrong doing -- make you look like an jerk. Spelled with six letters. Alan Benard From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 14:49:11 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:49:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University ifChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >On Monday August 20, 2007 alan bernard wrote: > > >>leaders' hubris as they used the University as a laboratory for their >>experiments in higher-education management. >> >Yes, and when Guskin made himself Chancellor and Crowfoot remained >president for a VERY short tenure and longstanding BoT's jumping ship back >in mid 1990's (vonMatthissen for one--any others?) Chancellor Guskin >quickly stepped down and retired to Seattle. There was also a 7 year >effort by Katy Jako to bring about Antioch College's independence with >pages of alumni signing up. Who at the College chose not to work with AIF? > Who preferred Al's master plan? Was it just the BoT? Who has >characterized AIF as elitist snobs? Yes, Alan, Antioch has become a >laboratory for experimentation in higher education management on ALL fronts >including AC leadership over the years. There have been plenty who got >salaries and expense accounts who did not do their job. At least BoT are >volunteers. Ahhhhh.... another country heard from. What are the parameters of an Antioch College president's authority exactly? May they question the chancellor? May they speak to the BoT independently? May they participate in fundraising or make a fundraising plan without permission from the ULC? May they make any sort of business deal without Board and thus ULC approval? Have you read the ULC manual? It's pretty clear that certain people in the 1990s giving you what you wanted at that time visa-vi the AIF would have resulted in their being removed from the presidency and that descision being reversed. LAstly... why is this so hard for you to understand? ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see trouble…before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 14:50:32 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:50:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Spelled with seven letters. > >Alan Benard Darn, I hate when I do that. Seven. Seven letters. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 14:54:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (erik (36invisible@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:54:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit filed Aug. 14: Details In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >While I think the Alumni Board should be much more proactive, public and louder, no one on the AB is paid to do this work. Neccecarily things are taking longer than they should and suffer the watering down of committee work and despite the hype, teleconfrencing. just wanted to clarify that i wasn't suggesting the AA take legal action in my post (or even know if such a thing is possible). my point was that i do think (as you mentioned in the above quote) that being more proactive, public and louder is the key. this: http://antiochians.org/alumni_board/alumni-board-responds-to-the-faculty-resolution-of-support/ is a good start, but pales in comparison to the loudness that i think is necessary to show our support and solidarity to the Faculty members who are actively on the front lines of this battle. still, i think it absolutely necessary (while still abiding by the fragile ground of being a non-profit) that more vocal and enthuiastic support is shown from the AA for the Faculty. it could start as a simple link on the AA's main page (http://antiochians.org) pointing to the Faculty's page (http://antiochfaculty.org) but should not end there. yes there are disclaimers etc, yes there are asses that need to be covered, but this is something that really needs to happen. too much process. too little action. action = change! right? e From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 14:58:39 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 14:58:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: you just short dicked yourself "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if >ChancellorPosit >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:50:32 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc7-f17.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, >20 Aug 2007 11:50:33 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 5618A6121E2D;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:50:40 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C696121E0Dfor >; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:50:37 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1INCKe-0002Nw-Rtfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:50:32 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAV4izJEBlU9PQC+CS2f1fmGWjlHlSxyg/zx8addK1uoR1kEJEYrZvOm1/HTZ5TM60dHBPmEroQm8Q== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 18:50:33.0160 (UTC) >FILETIME=[FCD30C80:01C7E35A] > > > >Spelled with seven letters. > > > >Alan Benard >Darn, I hate when I do that. Seven. Seven letters. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline From dlbahr at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 15:08:19 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:08:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University ifChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Because at the time, this governance structure was BRAND NEW. The Presidents parameters were severely limited by Guskin's structue. At that time the structure was not carved in stone. I do appreciate you getting me a copy but you act like this framework couldn't have been challenged at the time. It could have. It wasn't--except maybe by Crowfoot and maybe by VonMatthissen's resignation--although unlike his promise when he resigned VonMatthissen never really went public with his complaints--so who knows what really happened? No record. It is hard to imagine that anyone could understand this, given the scanty record. I know some people think they are wiley foxes or at least want to appear that way to their adoring public--however being from another--how did you put it?--"country"--some might see events differently. I do. Lesley A. Pownall Bahr '83 Buffalo, MN >From: "Gerry Bello" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University >ifChancellorPosit >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:49:11 -0400 > > >> >>On Monday August 20, 2007 alan bernard wrote: >> >> >>>leaders' hubris as they used the University as a laboratory for their >>>experiments in higher-education management. >>> >>Yes, and when Guskin made himself Chancellor and Crowfoot remained >>president for a VERY short tenure and longstanding BoT's jumping ship back >>in mid 1990's (vonMatthissen for one--any others?) Chancellor Guskin >>quickly stepped down and retired to Seattle. There was also a 7 year >>effort by Katy Jako to bring about Antioch College's independence with >>pages of alumni signing up. Who at the College chose not to work with >>AIF? Who preferred Al's master plan? Was it just the BoT? Who has >>characterized AIF as elitist snobs? Yes, Alan, Antioch has become a >>laboratory for experimentation in higher education management on ALL >>fronts including AC leadership over the years. There have been plenty who >>got salaries and expense accounts who did not do their job. At least BoT >>are volunteers. > >Ahhhhh.... another country heard from. > >What are the parameters of an Antioch College president's authority >exactly? > >May they question the chancellor? > >May they speak to the BoT independently? > >May they participate in fundraising or make a fundraising plan without >permission from the ULC? > >May they make any sort of business deal without Board and thus ULC >approval? > >Have you read the ULC manual? > > >It's pretty clear that certain people in the 1990s giving you what you >wanted at that time visa-vi the AIF would have resulted in their being >removed from the presidency and that descision being reversed. > >LAstly... why is this so hard for you to understand? > > >----G > > >"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about >that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the >stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the >prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We >carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." >----Durruti > >_________________________________________________________________ >Now you can see trouble…before he arrives >http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:09:53 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:10:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] AB response to webinar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "The contract you speak of is about the exchange of instructional services for negotiated salary and other benefits. With the college closing as of July 1, 2008 -- accepting no new students, graduating those they can, and then offering others assistance in transferring out -- the BoT has nullified the need for any instructional services. In addition, they have declared a financial status that is very similar to bankruptcy, and the labor laws of Ohio regarding an organization in financial extremis apply with perhaps a few modifications. They have declared an interest in reorganization, and possible re-opening after a period of very significant reform. They, the BoT is saying, we don't know what the future College might look like, how it will be organized, but for the immediate future we do not need any instructional services, because we will not have any students for the next few years. Assuming that proper notification is given, transition services provided and all -- I am just saying I can't find any Ohio Case Law that supports injunctive relief in a situation such as this." Sally, there are specific procedures in the contract to cover financial exigency and the faculty suit, in part, calls for the U to follow the terms of the contract. They U still has to abide the contract and their actions do not nullify the contract or their responsabilities under it. They can terminate employment but they have to do it in a legal manner and the essential argument is that the U has not. Your assumption of proper notification and following of procedure is exactly the question of fact that needs to be determined. The application of what area of the law applies is the question of law that needs to be determined. The faculty have every right to exercize this option and indeed would be foolish not to. "I do believe if the Alumni Board were organized independent of the University, they might (emphasis on might) find more favor with the matter of preserving assets, largely because many of those assets (both fabric and endowment), were originally contributed by Alumni, through campaigns organized by and among alumni for the purpose of improving the college, or in the case of scholarship funds, assisting students wishing to attend Antioch. It might be a stretch -- but I could see courts approving time limited plans about sequestering and preserving assets based on announced plans to reorganize and reopen. It might not even need a court -- such an agreement between the BoT and an independent Alumni Foundation might be mutually beneficial and possible. (but get it in writing)!!!" I may not be as informed as I think I am, but I believe the AB has been incorporated as a 501(c)(3) and such path is available. "Beyond this, I find much of interest in Al Guskin's memo posted here. First, it seems apparent that not a whole lot of thought was put into the framework for building a re-organization plan, he sees this, and is advising that an independent entity study and in fairly short order recommend a work plan for actually doing the hard work of preparing a reorganization model. It seems to me he is saying take this seriously, it is not something that gets done on the fly, you are not, once you close, responding to an immediate crisis. Recognize that you don't have such a framework, get serious about creating one. But he is also saying don't get tied down in serving constituency groups as they stand now. After all, one thing reorganization accomplishes is to reorder constituencies, -- it creates new ones, and changes the nature of old ones." And do you endorse this? Is it right to ignore the constituencies as they exist now because if you ignore them long enough they go away? Very progressive. "Second, I see precious little in Guskin's memo, or in most of what is being posted to the forums regarding the likely or possibly even predictable structure of Higher Education in the next let's say five decades or so. Where in the vast scope of that landscape is the place for a progressive, relatively small Liberal Arts College? What is the potential constituency for it? What are the economic constraints and possible economic leverage such a College might have? What cultural trends need to be considered and accommodated in any planning for Antioch 2.0? What does new or emerging technology have to offer that could make greater accomplishment possible and yet do things cheaper and with much greater efficiency? I think the dominant tendency here to essentially cut out or eliminate any voices that recognize that the BoT does have the power to close the College down for reorganization, works against any effort to consider changed conditions and "Futures" that don't correspond to ideologically driven causes. "My Way or the Highway" eliminationist thinking pretty much makes any advocacy of honestly creating an analysis of problems, and planned change so as to re-focus, a no-no." Good thing to! 5 decades from now? Fifty years ago did anyone think that the USSR would cease to exist in any way other than a massive war, possibly nuclear? Other than Sci-Fi predictions about the future, did anyone envision the incorporation, the neccesity of silicon wafers to the global economy? Sorry for the rhetoricals but the ability to see even five years into the future is difficult in the extreme (did you really believe the country would be engaged in an ongoing attempt at "nation building"?). The key to be success is to be open to change, be nimble, but be there. I guess Al's view is debatable. I sense mostly pique that he was not asked his opinion about any of this before it happened. He is just applying Machiavelli to Toni and Art's position, it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, you have to act like your right, refuse to consider alternatives and keep moving forward. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:11:23 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:11:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this crisis is just plain >touching. When you said something like "whatever happens, it's bound to be >a highly educational year" I melted. That's the true Antioch faith and >spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch education. While the rest >of us make noise, you (and another mother) take simple action, so your child >can have the experience, however brief. I love it. Wouldn't it be a scream >if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of us alumni should register. > >At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about politics, and I find, >listening to everyone's descriptions of the administration, etc., that I >still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send the rest of us out to >win victories and live on the edge. No better than all the insurance >company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can line their pockets. I >was right in my very first post: The world IS going to the dogs! > >People like Miriam will save it. > > >Pam Thank you! Nice of you to say so. M From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:15:03 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:15:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >you just short dicked yourself I so hate that. So very much. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:22:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:22:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <655419dc0a46e87fa6cedec7d76a7175@www.antiochians.org> Missing it. Who is Whipping Boy again? From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 15:23:08 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:23:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >you just short dicked yourself >I so hate that. So very much. > > other people are feeling the pain. Rowan's got kidney stones. Shawn has just gotten up to speed on communications because of "time castrates" And now your telling me that you are an F short of.... This whole forum needs a urologist. I'm gonna go watch the 2nd half of full metal jacket now. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 15:24:10 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:24:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: <655419dc0a46e87fa6cedec7d76a7175@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Missing it. Who is Whipping Boy again? > > >_______________________________________________ Who does the minnesota culture club hate? "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:27:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (shel623 (shel623@aol.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:27:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <865e62e4134594e55b422300696f0cc6@www.antiochians.org> >Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this crisis is just plain >touching. When you said something like "whatever happens, it's bound to be >a highly educational year" I melted. That's the true Antioch faith and >spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch education. While the rest >of us make noise, you (and another mother) take simple action, so your child >can have the experience, however brief. I love it. Wouldn't it be a scream >if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of us alumni should register. > >At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about politics, and I find, >listening to everyone's descriptions of the administration, etc., that I >still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send the rest of us out to >win victories and live on the edge. No better than all the insurance >company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can line their pockets. I >was right in my very first post: The world IS going to the dogs! > >People like Miriam will save it. > > >Pam As the originator of the "mother of incoming freshman" postings I am still surprised by the lack of communication from other parents. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:30:48 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:30:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>you just short dicked yourself >>I so hate that. So very much. >other people are feeling the pain. > >Rowan's got kidney stones. > >Shawn has just gotten up to speed on communications because of "time >castrates" > >And now your telling me that you are an F short of.... > >This whole forum needs a urologist. > >I'm gonna go watch the 2nd half of full metal jacket now. Kidney stone appears to be gone. At least, the pain is. For now? And they're not stress-related, so sadly, I can't blame Art and Toni for THAT one. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:41:00 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:41:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Because at the time, this governance structure was BRAND NEW. The >Presidents parameters were severely limited by Guskin's structue. At that >time the structure was not carved in stone. I do appreciate you getting me >a copy but you act like this framework couldn't have been challenged at the >time. It could not have been challenged at that time. This is directly from the manual written immediately after Crowfoot going bye-bye: >d. The First Major Test of the Federalist Structure > >Unfortunately (or fortunately), a major test of the federal model and its >tensions came rather quickly. The inherent ambiguity of the "reporting through" >relationship between the Board, Chancellor, campus chief executives did not seem to >sit well with the perspectives and interests of the new (1994) College President. Within >six months of his arrival University-College tensions became intense and adversarial. >To many members of the University Leadership Council, it seemed that >the new College President wanted to report directly to the Board, not through the >Chancellor, and surely not as an equal with the other campus chief executives . While >the symbolic centrality of the College in the hearts of the Trustees informally fostered a >special relationship between the Board and the College, the College President did not >appreciate the ambiguity and wanted a clearly defined and articulated relationship >between himself and the Board independent of the other campus chief executives and >the Chancellor. > > Following the resignation of the College President in August, >1996, the Board overwhelmingly reaffirmed its commitment to this new organizational >structure. As might be expected in the wake of all this conflict, the Board moved to >reduce some of the ambiguity in the Antioch federal model by increa sing the influence >of the Chancellor. > >While the more idealistic versions of the federal model may have proven >too ambiguous, increasing the Chancellor's influence by making more clear the >reporting lines between the campus chief executives, the Chancellor and the Board >may have strengthened the overall federalism by increasing the University's >commitment to it. The practical effect of these changes is consistent with the way the >adult campus chief executives had acted following the July , 1994 implementation of the >new leadership structure. Namely, it is expected that each campus chief executive >work closely with the Chancellor in a collaborative manner, stay within the policies of >the Board , work as partners within the University Leadership Council, brief the Trustees >through a Board committee process that includes five separate campus committees >that focus on learning about each campus but do not make policy, and work through the >Chancellor on any actions th at must be approved by the Board as a whole. Further, the >Chancell or will chair all chief executive search and screen committees and, along with >the Board Chair, sign the employment agreements and contract renewals of each >campus chief executive. > >In the Fall, 1997, the federalist model is very much in place and the key >University leadership arena--the University Leadership Council--has become more >collaborative and more powerful, probably because it had to weather two years of >conflict. Some of the ambiguity of the federalist structure has been reduced, but the >collaboration and partnership has been reinforced. And, the campus leaders remain >powerful chief executives of their campuses. > >The benefits of the federal model, with its adjustments, for the University >and each of the campuses will prove to be many and outweigh the costs of any >continuing tensions. The federal model for the five campus Antioch University system >provides each campus with the maximum amount of autonomy while maintaining the >interdependence of financial resources, a common set of values that are mutually >necessary for the future of each, and the potential for future sharing of resources and >new programs to the benefit of all. Which was Guskin's windy way of saying "Dont Fuck with me, EVER!". A more explict demonstration of a lack of discretionary power could not be given to an executive. From eayres at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 15:40:10 2007 From: eayres at comcast.net (E. Daniel Ayres) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:41:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <20070817212740.7987D6116844@w3.antioch.edu> References: <20070817212740.7987D6116844@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <003101c7e361$ee4f3650$caeda2f0$@net> SisterSarah's question is a good one... > So how do you move from warfare to future vision? In the specific Antioch College case, the "warfare" has been ongoing to the detriment of all parties at least since the foundation of the AIF. The fact that those pledges and assets were dissipated rather than injected into the College left the Alumnae who participated in that process with a very bad taste in their mouths. To me, first steps toward the future vision must be an agreement among all the parties to figure out a way to move forward which can be supported by all parties. This means full and honest fact finding and review of the "fiscal management" issues. It means accepting the fact that by declaring "exigency" and proceeding with a "shut down plan" the UBoT has almost guaranteed a temporary closure no matter how dissatisfactory that may seem to the majority of Alumnae. It would help a lot if the UBoT would be willing to consider the Alumnae of the college and their currently serving board as an "interim" board of the College and charge them with quickly and democratically refreshing themselves as the governing board of the college to be saved/revived in Yellow Springs. I personally have no problem with "shared services" as a principle which provides effective and appropriate service levels for all programs in a university system. What seems to me to be problematic is the compensation of so many different "chiefs" at the expense of needed "Indians." Also problematic are "shared services" which are allocated in ways which are not transparent to all parties and subject to ongoing appraisal and re-evaluation procedures accepted by all. We don't need a lot of central administrators at the University level, each "center" or "program" needs leadership compensated at a level appropriate to the size of the piece of the pie and a commitment by that leadership to provide its "fair share" of the sacrifices necessary to keep the entire enterprise together and to nurse it back to health. I believe an honest and in-depth fiscal analysis of the whole Antioch University "system" will reveal that we have been spending entirely too much of the limited resources and income from programs in executive compensation, and finding a way to "flatten" the hierarchy will be a critical factor in any long-term successful proposal. -----Original Message----- From FRESHT at jfs.hamilton-co.org Mon Aug 20 15:43:38 2007 From: FRESHT at jfs.hamilton-co.org (TERRI FRESHLEY) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:44:06 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. Message-ID: I am the Mom of an incoming junior, and have been on this board a few times. I wonder how many incoming students there will be - does anyone really know? Terri Freshley >>> alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org 8/20/2007 3:27 PM >>> >Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this crisis is just plain >touching. When you said something like "whatever happens, it's bound to be >a highly educational year" I melted. That's the true Antioch faith and >spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch education. While the rest >of us make noise, you (and another mother) take simple action, so your child >can have the experience, however brief. I love it. Wouldn't it be a scream >if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of us alumni should register. > >At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about politics, and I find, >listening to everyone's descriptions of the administration, etc., that I >still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send the rest of us out to >win victories and live on the edge. No better than all the insurance >company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can line their pockets. I >was right in my very first post: The world IS going to the dogs! > >People like Miriam will save it. > > >Pam As the originator of the "mother of incoming freshman" postings I am still surprised by the lack of communication from other parents. This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain private, confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for delivering this message, please contact the sender by reply e- mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail message. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 15:44:00 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:44:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <25b884d21470765749f8c1c4aca95b93@www.antiochians.org> >>>>>I so hate that. So very much. >>other people are feeling the pain. >> >>Rowan's got kidney stones. >> >>Shawn has just gotten up to speed on communications because of "time >>castrates" >> >>And now your telling me that you are an F short of.... >> >>This whole forum needs a urologist. >> >>I'm gonna go watch the 2nd half of full metal jacket now. >Kidney stone appears to be gone. At least, the pain is. For now? And they're not stress-related, so sadly, I can't blame Art and Toni for THAT one. Blame it on them anyway. Then sue them for intentional infliction of emotional harm. The make an opening motion to freeze their assets based on the fact that they are having an affair and their partners are aware and seeking council for divorce/palimony proceedings. It happened to a friend of mine once. I'd like to see it happen to someone else. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 15:46:27 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:46:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've heard 60 which is the same number the year of the curriculum change and is therefore good. I'd like to take a moment to tell you that we are going to win and your child will join the ranks of Antiochians in 2 (or 3) years. _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From aadole at adelphia.net Mon Aug 20 18:53:28 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Mon Aug 20 15:53:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: <143bd15803e12e86de8f383b1c2ab438@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: On 8/20/07 10:57 AM, "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" wrote: > Its called "Pragmatic Idealism" and it was the theme of Al's innagural and it > is just as much an oxymoron now as it was then. It presumes that only you > (him, Toni, whoever) know the answer for how to attain the greatest good and > that the pragmatism part meant you could not include anybody else in the > decision making process because it would muddy your (his, Toni's, whoever's) > ideal outcome. He did a better job of paying lipservice to dissent and made > them, sometimes feel like they were on the inside, with him as it were and > then he would whamo you with a solution to a problem that had nothing to do > with any of the options that were discussed. > > Travis, I am puzzled by my conflicting memories of Arthur Morgan. I took a course from him on the small community. This was long after he left the presidency. He was clearly brilliant. Lots of innovative ideas. But in managing the class, he was an autocrat. No consultation, no democracy,no Quaker consensus, a top down man. I sense that when he ran Antioch, it was his show. He wrote Antioch Notes; he recruited an able faculty, probably without the usual search committees. Some of those he found like Chatterjee (A Ghandi prot?g?, an engineer) and Basil Pillard (background as advertising copywriter) lacked conventional academic credentials. He tapped deep pocket power people like Charles F. Kettering who opened doors. He developed the idea of starting small businesses around Y.S. That would employ co-ops such as Antioch Shoe, Antioch Press, Pioneer hybrid corn, etc. My advisor was an alum, Horace Champney, then a psychologist at Fels. As a student, he and a small group (as I understood it) invented Community Government; Morgan and many faculty opposed the notion of a laboratory in student democracy. Top down works for some at opportune times. Art Dole '46 From gabe at ideadesign-dc.com Mon Aug 20 16:07:48 2007 From: gabe at ideadesign-dc.com (Gabe) Date: Mon Aug 20 16:08:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was at a DC area meeting of Antioch alumni Saturday and someone from the campus said that roughly 200 students are expected this year. Gabe Heilig, '65 > I am the Mom of an incoming junior, and have been on this board a few > times. > I wonder how many incoming students there will be - does anyone really > know? > Terri Freshley > >>>> alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org 8/20/2007 3:27 PM >>> > >> Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this crisis is just > plain >> touching. When you said something like "whatever happens, it's bound > to be >> a highly educational year" I melted. That's the true Antioch faith > and >> spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch education. While > the rest >> of us make noise, you (and another mother) take simple action, so your > child >> can have the experience, however brief. I love it. Wouldn't it be a > scream >> if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of us alumni should > register. >> >> At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about politics, and I > find, >> listening to everyone's descriptions of the administration, etc., that > I >> still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send the rest of us out > to >> win victories and live on the edge. No better than all the insurance >> company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can line their pockets. > I >> was right in my very first post: The world IS going to the dogs! >> >> People like Miriam will save it. >> >> >> Pam > As the originator of the "mother of incoming freshman" postings I am > still surprised by the lack of communication from other parents. > > > > > This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain private, > confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are > not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for > delivering this message, please contact the sender by reply e- > mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail message. > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 16:16:03 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 16:17:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think thats a total student body not entering class "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: Gabe >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: Alumni Chat List >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:07:48 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc6-f1.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 20 >Aug 2007 13:07:53 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id C6996612250F;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:08:00 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net >[204.127.225.93])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E21D36122503for >; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:07:58 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [192.168.0.3] >(c-68-55-16-54.hsd1.md.comcast.net[68.55.16.54])by comcast.net (alnrmhc13) >with SMTPid <20070820200749b1300eg6fce>; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:07:50 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >U2wzkPk8/jZjD9wecKIHzJqq4Ta6AsKCZ9ntATshIQGpA1uaDkzT7rdDOlAlppSqFXqBMZ2qEBKqx+E9q1S2BQ== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.1.051004 >Thread-Topic: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. >Thread-Index: AcfjZcdnBjRaFE9ZEdyqsAAwZUKyrg== >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 20:07:53.0890 (UTC) >FILETIME=[CAEA4020:01C7E365] > > > > >I was at a DC area meeting of Antioch alumni Saturday and someone from the >campus said that roughly 200 students are expected this year. > >Gabe Heilig, '65 > > > > > > > > > > I am the Mom of an incoming junior, and have been on this board a few > > times. > > I wonder how many incoming students there will be - does anyone really > > know? > > Terri Freshley > > > >>>> alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org 8/20/2007 3:27 PM >>> > > > >> Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this crisis is just > > plain > >> touching. When you said something like "whatever happens, it's bound > > to be > >> a highly educational year" I melted. That's the true Antioch faith > > and > >> spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch education. While > > the rest > >> of us make noise, you (and another mother) take simple action, so your > > child > >> can have the experience, however brief. I love it. Wouldn't it be a > > scream > >> if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of us alumni should > > register. > >> > >> At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about politics, and I > > find, > >> listening to everyone's descriptions of the administration, etc., that > > I > >> still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send the rest of us out > > to > >> win victories and live on the edge. No better than all the insurance > >> company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can line their pockets. > > I > >> was right in my very first post: The world IS going to the dogs! > >> > >> People like Miriam will save it. > >> > >> > >> Pam > > As the originator of the "mother of incoming freshman" postings I am > > still surprised by the lack of communication from other parents. > > > > > > > > > > This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole > > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain private, > > confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized > > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are > > not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for > > delivering this message, please contact the sender by reply e- > > mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail message. > > _______________________________________________ > > Alumni-chat mailing list > > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN Travel. http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 16:21:47 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 16:21:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Art, Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I believe in the Du Boise-ian talented tenth to actually enact policy and action but I think it still needs to be vetted by the general public and the stakeholders. But my point really is that I think it is wrong to assume that we need a massive make-over and reinvention to make the College work and talented leaders seem to want a clean slate and I find that unfortunate. If I may coop Mark'c comments about working from within for change, I want to work with in the Antioch College system or paradigm to find a solution. I do not believe and neither do you, from what I can tell, in the University system to work for change. What kind of a leadership would be welcomed at the college by the students and faculty? Refering back to Alan's posting I think the problem is not the students but the elite leadership that constantly seeks to reject the generation fo the college post-Strike. This generations has proven itself to be more radical, more confrontational in its politcs than others, but no less educated or passionate in their pursuit of justice. From jdavid at coldren.net Mon Aug 20 16:40:38 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Mon Aug 20 16:42:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Leadership at Antioch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01ad01c7e36a$60e35c20$22aa1460$@net> "Anybody with half a brain would be out of his or her mind to be a leader of this community. You get nothing but shit, and in the end you cannot take it anymore. If you give your opinion and it happens to be a strong opinion, you get letters from The Advocate, or shit sent to you. When you're young you can take it. But after a while you can't." -- Larry Kramer, The Advocate, August 17, 1999 I see nothing's changed in the "progressive/activist" community. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 16:44:11 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Liza (eadler2001@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 16:44:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: <143bd15803e12e86de8f383b1c2ab438@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >It has been well documented by now that each and every precipitous decline in Antioch enrollment has resulted from a major curriculum change imposed from the top down. Are you calling the 73 strikes a major curriculum change imposed from the top down? Or have I misunderstood what you seem to be saying here? From marklp2 at comcast.net Mon Aug 20 17:22:30 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (marklp2@comcast.net) Date: Mon Aug 20 17:22:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: <082020072122.25129.46CA06160007E4DE000062292205889116CD9F04059D0E03@comcast.net> Sometimes it's good to work inside. Sometimes it's good to work outside! -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)" > > >>But anyway - what you say meshes with my analysis - the Democratic party, > after 1968, saw that it was facing an existential threat, and pushed by external > pressures as well as internal reformers, remade itself for the better, as you > claim. A fine example, and I hope it happens again soon... > >Wait... we are talking about progressive movement for social change arent we... > > > > > >Why exactly is an imperialist party being discussed? > > > >Who got us into Vietnam? > > > >Who has controled congress for the last 8 months and why are we still in Iraq? > > > >You people talk about Democracy like there actually is one in this country. > In so-called democracies people vote... that doesnt happen here. > > > >Earth people... talk about planet earth > Well, I was engaging Sistersara on her terms - she believed that the reforms she > mentioned helped to make the Democratic party better and more representative, > and I suppose, in that fashion, the DP would be better for the world. > > This is perhaps theoretically possible, but I said "I hope it happens again" > cause the DP still hasn't achieved whatever promise it's supposed to have. I > don't particularly expect it to. > > But I have no problem with the internal DP reformers, so long as they don't > attack me as a traitor for believing it's better to work outside to achieve > progressive social change. > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 17:55:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 17:55:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9ad07b6583ff988226a975c1391cf368@www.antiochians.org> >>It has been well documented by now that each and every precipitous decline in Antioch enrollment has resulted from a major curriculum change imposed from the top down. >Are you calling the 73 strikes a major curriculum change imposed from the top down? Or have I misunderstood what you seem to be saying here? We could call canceling the New Directions program suddenly without any planning a major curriculum change. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 17:56:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 17:56:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: <01ad01c7e36a$60e35c20$22aa1460$@net> Message-ID: <3c7a10a6f120e6820d3f5bb74d6689ce@www.antiochians.org> >"Anybody with half a brain would be out of his or her mind to be a leader of >this community. You get nothing but shit, and in the end you cannot take it >anymore. If you give your opinion and it happens to be a strong opinion, you >get letters from The Advocate, or shit sent to you. When you're young you >can take it. But after a while you can't." >-- Larry Kramer, The Advocate, August 17, 1999 > >I see nothing's changed in the "progressive/activist" community. why is this relevant to this thread David? From grinrose at aol.com Mon Aug 20 18:02:37 2007 From: grinrose at aol.com (grinrose@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:02:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: <3c7a10a6f120e6820d3f5bb74d6689ce@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <8C9B18CF4104677-B3C-DAE@webmail-mf17.sysops.aol.com> Actually, he posted that under a subject heading called Leadership at Antioch. I assume he sent an email (maybe a reply)?to the alumni chat which I'm doing now but changed the subject heading. Will come up as the original thread on the forums. -----Original Message----- From: Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com) To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Sent: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 4:56 pm Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. >"Anybody with half a brain would be out of his or her mind to be a leader of >this community. You get nothing but shit, and in the end you cannot take it >anymore. If you give your opinion and it happens to be a strong opinion, you >get letters from The Advocate, or shit sent to you. When you're young you >can take it. But after a while you can't." >-- Larry Kramer, The Advocate, August 17, 1999 > >I see nothing's changed in the "progressive/activist" community. why is this relevant to this thread David? _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. From davidallenusa at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 18:08:55 2007 From: davidallenusa at yahoo.com (YAZZ ALLEN) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:09:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: <20070820153950.866C36121217@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <970580.30649.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Aug. 20, 07 Hi from Yazz Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com A successful lawsuit/ injunction request can be mounted based on several known facts, and serious legal Case Law research and and will turn up other possible additional approaches. That is why money must be raised for separate legal action (wider than the narrower focus of current faculty legal action). Research and planning are needed before actual efforts are mounted. It appears that the Board of Trustees has breached its fiduciary obligations to Antioch College and that consideration should be given to a lawsuit based on that breach that is separate from the faculty lawsuit, which is more narrowly focused on the Board's alleged breach of contractual obligations owed the faculty. The basis of the potential lawsuit is years of actions that left Antioch College in the weakened financial and physical condition that the Board cited as reasons for its suspension and potential closure. Other strategies and grievances can and should be cited, and would persuade courts that the Antioch University Board Of Trustees has not acted in good faith or discharged its publicly mandated legal obligations regarding oversight of Antioch College. Preparation and research is needed first. Lawyers need to review Case Law in the particular areas and legal histories of situations where higher education Trustees were taken to court over grievances revealing Trustee malfeasance. Part of the reason for raising money specifically for legal action is the intitial research and preparation process, out of which legal action strategies and tactics can be determined which can be the foundation of a court victory to stop the Trustees closing down Antioch College as presently announced. Alumni Assn. efforts at persuasion, negotiation, and use of group influence will not work with the AU BOT. They are determined to move forward without interfence or interuption. ONLY legal action will stop their plans, and as important, ONLY legal action will cause them to be removed. If they remain, even under the best circumstances, the cancer which presently attacks Antioch College continues its life....the Antioch University Board Of Trustees and AU Chancellor ARE that cancer. All of these people must be removed, and whether they stay or go should not be up to them. These are assassins. It's important to be street smart about this. Naive thinking about the entire crisis we all face will result in losing the battle, and we are indeed engaged in, facing....a battle. Yazz --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... Read my writing about the 2007 Antioch College Crisis on WWW.AntiRecord.Org, oldest Antioch College interest/watchdog website (est. 1998) "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. From artmama at visi.com Mon Aug 20 18:31:36 2007 From: artmama at visi.com (artmama@visi.com) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:10:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Richmond Post-Dispatch Op-Ed Article on Antioch Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.1.20070820171432.02821750@pop3.mail.visi.com> This is a good one. Thanks to Fuji and Gordon for the forwarded link. http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion/commentary.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-08-19-0085.html By RICHARD COUTO TIMES-DISPATCH GUEST COLUMNIST The suspended operation of a small college in a small Midwestern village hardly seems newsworthy. However, the news about Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio, has generated press coverage around the world. Why? Sadly, the coverage to date gives inadequate answers. Conservatives gloat that the liberals did themselves in. Liberals lament the caricature of progressive politics that the college had become. Higher education observers cite the drop in student enrollment and the ramshackle appearance of the campus. Alumni name and blame those responsible, including themselves, for their beloved alma mater's demise. Meanwhile, Antioch administrators offer assurances that the university, of which the college was one part, remains alive and well. Thus the question remains: Why do people care so much about Antioch's fate? The answer is not so much in the fall of Antioch College or who pushed it, but in the fact that no school delivered on the promise of the liberal arts better. Its curriculum of engagement imparted a responsibility for fearless thinking and prepared people for a lifetime of inquiry and citizenship. No other set of students, proportionately, has garnered more prestigious awards or contributed more to the intellectual, political, and artistic leadership of this country than Antioch. These students include seven McArthur "genius" awardees and three Fulbright scholars in this past academic year alone. What goes into a curriculum of engagement? Ambitious goals and high expectations: The oft-cited words of Horace Mann, the college's first president, "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity," provide the bedrock of Antioch culture. People learn to shape unanswerable questions about race, violence, gender, power, culture, and civil liberties into manageable ones; to ask why these questions aren't asked; and to challenge assumptions about social institutions and arrangements that sustain social injustice -- from slavery and women's rights in 1852 to sweatshops in 2007. Heinz Eulau, who distinguished himself at Stanford and among political scientists, confessed, "I am still amazed today by the formidable set of intellectual demands I made on these Antioch undergraduates." Learning by doing and action research: In 1920, Arthur Morgan became president and instituted the nation's first system of cooperative education. Students alternated between a semester of work and "co-ops," which send students into the field for the practical application of knowledge. We now extol this mode of "reflective practice" as a principal source of creativity and excellence. In addition, class discussions and assignments were problem-centered in a manner that we now call a scholarship of engagement. Continuums constructed from dichotomies: One did not teach or study at Antioch as much as one spent time learning with others. The teacher/student dichotomy became a continuum along with campus and the "real world," acts and values, and rigor and relevance. Interdisciplinary work: Antioch's learning community reached out in all directions. The question "Knowledge for what?" trumped disciplinary restrictions on the methods of acquiring knowledge and gave everyone permission to read broadly and combine fields such as politics and psychology. Independence, Contention, Civility, and Community: Co-op semesters took students away from campus and contributed to a go-it-alone attitude, which bonded the college into a curious and often contentious community of independent individuals committed to consensus. In excess, the stress on independence fostered a paradoxical pressure to conform to styles of individualism and thinking for oneself. Contention inevitably followed. The commitment to freedom of inquiry within the college provided a code of civility and a counterbalance to the pressures to conform. An iconoclasm that embraces irony: Members of the Antioch learning community were encouraged to articulate and examine assumptions, including the icons of their own minds, in order to think independently. They learned how to think rather than what to think. Also, perhaps because of Antioch's contentious community, people reveled in being raw-edged scholars. They overcame the fear to act in an irreverent manner in order to destabilize the taken-for-granted or to entertain a new thought. Clifford Geertz, another in Antioch's galaxy of stars, may have best captured the depth of this dutiful irreverence by citing the impatience of Antioch's best faculty with its self-absorption and dysfunctional ritualistic iconoclasm. Antioch College fostered a nebula for stars in the intellectual, artistic, and civic firmament. We now have a dark hole in the space of higher education. Hopefully Antioch University will reignite its embers and other colleges will take on a sense of responsibility for their own curricula of fearless thinking. That's why so many people care about what happens to a small college in an Ohio village midway between Springfield and Xenia, Ohio. Richard A. Couto, a Mechanicsville resident, teaches in the Antioch University PhD program on leadership and change. He was a founding faculty member of the Jepson School of Leadership Studies of the University of Richmond. ********** Jeanne Badman '80 Antioch Alumni Chat lurker since 1996 I'm just not up to the current level of discourse. Carry on..... From celticbear3 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 20 18:15:16 2007 From: celticbear3 at yahoo.com (Robin Heise) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:15:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <813611.26039.qm@web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Terri, We won't really know until everyone shows up, but the projections are 60-67 first-year students. The total student enrollment is projected to be between 225-250. Robin --- TERRI FRESHLEY wrote: > I am the Mom of an incoming junior, and have been on > this board a few > times. > I wonder how many incoming students there will be - > does anyone really > know? > Terri Freshley > > >>> alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org 8/20/2007 3:27 > PM >>> > > >Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this > crisis is just > plain > >touching. When you said something like "whatever > happens, it's bound > to be > >a highly educational year" I melted. That's the > true Antioch faith > and > >spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch > education. While > the rest > >of us make noise, you (and another mother) take > simple action, so your > child > >can have the experience, however brief. I love it. > Wouldn't it be a > scream > >if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of > us alumni should > register. > > > >At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about > politics, and I > find, > >listening to everyone's descriptions of the > administration, etc., that > I > >still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send > the rest of us out > to > >win victories and live on the edge. No better than > all the insurance > >company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can > line their pockets. > I > >was right in my very first post: The world IS > going to the dogs! > > > >People like Miriam will save it. > > > > > >Pam > As the originator of the "mother of incoming > freshman" postings I am > still surprised by the lack of communication from > other parents. > > > > > This e-mail message, including any attachments, is > for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain > private, > confidential and/or privileged information. Any > unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is > prohibited. If you are > not the intended recipient, employee or agent > responsible for > delivering this message, please contact the sender > by reply e- > mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail > message. > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From duffy at antioch-college.edu Mon Aug 20 18:27:16 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:37:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fall estimates are between 179 and 201 for on campus others stilll wish to finish AEA and co-ops. There are some 250 sequenced students/ Duffy and a few are even coming back after several years to finish up. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 18:39:16 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (shel623 (shel623@aol.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:39:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: <813611.26039.qm@web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05f1462bac21d8f4d5663427df21f83f@www.antiochians.org> >Hi Terri, > >We won't really know until everyone shows up, but the >projections are 60-67 first-year students. The total >student enrollment is projected to be between 225-250. > >Robin >looking forward to seeing and meeting everyone on the 23rd. should be interesting. >--- TERRI FRESHLEY wrote: > >>I am the Mom of an incoming junior, and have been on >>this board a few >>times. >>I wonder how many incoming students there will be - >>does anyone really >>know? >>Terri Freshley >> >>>>> >>PM >>> >> >>>Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this >>crisis is just >>plain >>>touching. When you said something like "whatever >>happens, it's bound >>to be >>>a highly educational year" I melted. That's the >>true Antioch faith >>and >>>spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch >>education. While >>the rest >>>of us make noise, you (and another mother) take >>simple action, so your >>child >>>can have the experience, however brief. I love it. >>Wouldn't it be a >>scream >>>if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of >>us alumni should >>register. >>>At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about >>politics, and I >>find, >>>listening to everyone's descriptions of the >>administration, etc., that >>I >>>still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send >>the rest of us out >>to >>>win victories and live on the edge. No better than >>all the insurance >>>company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can >>line their pockets. >>I >>>was right in my very first post: The world IS >>going to the dogs! >>>People like Miriam will save it. >>> >>> >>>Pam >>As the originator of the "mother of incoming >>freshman" postings I am >>still surprised by the lack of communication from >>other parents. >> >> >> >> >>This e-mail message, including any attachments, is >>for the sole >>use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain >>private, >>confidential and/or privileged information. Any >>unauthorized >>review, use, disclosure or distribution is >>prohibited. If you are >>not the intended recipient, employee or agent >>responsible for >>delivering this message, please contact the sender >>by reply e- >>mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail >>message. >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 18:49:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:49:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And though I don't usually agree with you, Travis, I'd like to thank you for the support. Best, Deb >>>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >>Deb, does your employer find it strange that legal secretaries in their firm are dispensing questionable legal advise? >Hey Rascal, stop it. Legal secs are the backbone of firms and often quite knowledgeable about the law and the processes that really are the law. Not that I have ever agreed with Deb but that is not because she is a legal sec. She has just as much right to pontificate about legal issues as anyone else. > >Again, she is wrong about everything but the private life should stay that way. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 18:52:34 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:52:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <1e45413d6971c95d74ea13343f45b34b@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Callie: It can't be standard practice to ask parents of students to donate funds to support lawsuits for faculty suing the universities that employ them (and then close colleges without notice) simply because this is not a standard situation. I think you are answering a different question but thanks anyway. Deb >Thanks for this thoughtful reply and your willingness to make a donation. There is a couple in town (Yellow Springs), 2 academics, who held a little gathering of faculty from area colleges and raised some money to support the Faculty Legal Fund. > >I look forward to seeing your daughter around town. Does she babysit?:-) > >As to the issue of asking parents of students to give money, this is standard practice at most colleges since the belief is that it often instills philanthropic awareness. Antioch has never launched that sort of campaign but has at various times asked graduating classes to make a class gift. > >Callie > >>Hi--I didn't find it odd at all. In fact, in an early post I mentioned I had already given--and I plan to give more. I think parents are a good group to try and mobilize--granted we are paying tuition which is a major expense but we also are invested in our children and the future of the college. >>Also, I am an academic, and I am appalled by what has happened, so I naturally feel an affinity with the faculty. >>In addition, donating money, including small sums, is really emphasized in the Jewish tradition I was raised in. I think it is always fine to ask for money, assuming it is then up to the giver.Miriam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 18:54:16 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:54:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5ea50eb9739780b4fdc077b6add1c03a@www.antiochians.org> Gerry: Lemme put something in terms you may be able to understand: I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. I taught that to my friend's 3-year-old the other day and he got it so I bet you can, too. Deb >Deb, > >you dont ask honest questions. > >And you welch on bets. > >----G > > > >"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about >that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the >stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the >prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We >carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." >----Durruti > > > > > >>From: "hopeful (most_content@yahoo.com)" >> >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question >>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:43:49 -0500 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >>bay0-mc4-f15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, >>19 Aug 2007 20:43:47 -0700 >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >>(Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D7B611EDDE;Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:50 -0400 (EDT) >>Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >>w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF36A611EDBFfor >>; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:48 -0400 (EDT) >>Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >>with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >>)id 1IMyBC-0000QN-0Kfor >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:43:50 -0500 >>X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >>X-Message-Info: >>m0MZ22IVDAWK2VyguY8R5SMqdHmY0tkXFIQAxsdaHPzuK6iPmxmuIUSozGA4OWveorPBkrDnf3chwqwHzlR4Gg== >>X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >>X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >>any abuse report >>X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >>X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >>X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >>X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >>X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >>Precedence: list >>List-Id: Alumni Chat List >>List-Unsubscribe: >>, >>List-Archive: >>List-Post: >>List-Help: >>List-Subscribe: >>, >>Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >>Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 03:43:47.0628 (UTC) >>FILETIME=[5099AEC0:01C7E2DC] >> >>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations >>for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on >>the Antioch Alumni Chat? >> >>Deb '83 >_________________________________________________________________ >See what you?re getting into before you go there >http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Mon Aug 20 18:59:51 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Mon Aug 20 18:59:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <5ea50eb9739780b4fdc077b6add1c03a@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: that was useless advice the first time I heard it 30 years ago. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:54:16 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc1-f13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, >20 Aug 2007 15:54:15 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DED861230C2;Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:54:17 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0605361230A3for >; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:54:14 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1ING8W-00071H-Cyfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:54:16 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAUyrxnfTO1t3Aq5giA+Ie0zEK4+3gGkhXnefHva3mcidfDtTa8Nvr0Z4E18sqMcBagUNlu/X1Xo6Q== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 22:54:15.0543 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0871A070:01C7E37D] > >Gerry: > >Lemme put something in terms you may be able to understand: > >I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to >you. > >I taught that to my friend's 3-year-old the other day and he got it so I >bet you can, too. > >Deb > > >Deb, > > > >you dont ask honest questions. > > > >And you welch on bets. > > > >----G > > > > > > > >"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt >about > >that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves >the > >stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the > >prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We > >carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this >minute." > >----Durruti > > > > > > > > > > > >>From: "hopeful (most_content@yahoo.com)" > >> > >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List > >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question > >>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:43:49 -0500 > >>MIME-Version: 1.0 > >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by > >>bay0-mc4-f15.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); >Sun, > >>19 Aug 2007 20:43:47 -0700 > >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu > >>(Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D7B611EDDE;Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:50 -0400 >(EDT) > >>Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by > >>w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF36A611EDBFfor > >>; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:43:48 -0400 (EDT) > >>Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by >thunder.svaha.org > >>with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from > >>)id 1IMyBC-0000QN-0Kfor > >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:43:50 -0500 > >>X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w > >>X-Message-Info: > >>m0MZ22IVDAWK2VyguY8R5SMqdHmY0tkXFIQAxsdaHPzuK6iPmxmuIUSozGA4OWveorPBkrDnf3chwqwHzlR4Gg== > >>X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] > >>X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with > >>any abuse report > >>X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org > >>X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu > >>X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] > >>X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org > >>X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: > >>alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > >>Precedence: list > >>List-Id: Alumni Chat List > >>List-Unsubscribe: > >>, > >>List-Archive: > >>List-Post: > >>List-Help: > >>List-Subscribe: > >>, > >>Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu > >>Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu > >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2007 03:43:47.0628 (UTC) > >>FILETIME=[5099AEC0:01C7E2DC] > >> > >>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting >donations > >>for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student >on > >>the Antioch Alumni Chat? > >> > >>Deb '83 > >_________________________________________________________________ > >See what you’re getting into…before you go there > >http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 19:08:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (erik (36invisible@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 19:08:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question Message-ID: Deb, It would be nice of you to use just one account. I realize there are not yet any TOS for this forum site regarding multiple accounts, but what you're doing could be seen as abusive to the solutions the good people here are providing. You of course have every right to disagree with this. I of course have every intention of writing scripts that auto delete users with multiple accounts, blocks their ips and makes fun of them globally. thank you, e From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 19:45:48 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 19:45:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: <9ad07b6583ff988226a975c1391cf368@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <54eeacd1d42ae71b98daef05439cdbce@antiochians.org> >It has been well documented by now that each and every precipitous decline in Antioch enrollment has resulted from a major curriculum change imposed from the top down. > > >"Are you calling the 73 strikes a major curriculum change imposed from the top down? Or have I misunderstood what you seem to be saying here?" Sorry I should have specified a time frame and I meant-post strike. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 20:02:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 20:02:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <64c1762c840dc85605e573c0a4cabe54@antiochians.org> erik: I did not mean to be un-nice. Of course, I keep getting a bad rap on these forums so if you want to dislike me, be my guest. Your note was not very nice. Indeed my intent was to have only one account. I apologize for having found the need to create extra accounts. Not ever having been on a forum before, I didn't realize at first that I needed to log-off. I was on at work and came home and was unable to log-on so I figured I'd have to make a new account since something must have been wrong with the first one. Hence the second account. At that point I still didn't realize about the logoff thing. Then, I went to my dad's house. (I spend a few days a week there as I'm his primary caregiver.) Couldn't log in there. Thought I had to make another account. Hence the third. Haven't been able to log on at work again to write anything (rules are rules) and went to dad's house last night so I used that account. I'd like to say that I am a member of the internet generation but it ain't so. Accordingly I have to learn as I go. Sufficeth to say that I won't make any more accounts now that I know how it works. At least I had the decency to identify myself. Do you know who rascal is? Thanks for assuming the worst, though. Always appreciate the new brand of openness! Deb >Deb, > >It would be nice of you to use just one account. > >I realize there are not yet any TOS for this forum site regarding multiple accounts, but what you're doing could be seen as abusive to the solutions the good people here are providing. > >You of course have every right to disagree with this. > >I of course have every intention of writing scripts that auto delete users with multiple accounts, blocks their ips and makes fun of them globally. > >thank you, > >e From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 20:11:34 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 20:11:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: <970580.30649.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <618a24bab8d1556d8c5b2c70cc67362e@antiochians.org> >Aug. 20, 07 > >Hi from Yazz Allen! >Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com > >A successful lawsuit/ injunction request can be mounted based on several known facts, and serious legal Case Law research and and will turn up other possible additional approaches. That is why money must be raised for separate legal action (wider than the narrower focus of current faculty legal action). Research and planning are needed before actual efforts are mounted. > >It appears that the Board of Trustees has breached its fiduciary obligations to Antioch College and that consideration should be given to a lawsuit based on that breach that is separate from the faculty lawsuit, which is more narrowly focused on the Board's alleged breach of contractual obligations owed the faculty. > >The basis of the potential lawsuit is years of actions that left Antioch College in the weakened financial and physical condition that the Board cited as reasons for its suspension and potential closure. > >Other strategies and grievances can and should be cited, and would persuade courts that the Antioch University Board Of Trustees has not acted in good faith or discharged its publicly mandated legal obligations regarding oversight of Antioch College. > >Preparation and research is needed first. > >Lawyers need to review Case Law in the particular areas and legal histories of situations where higher education Trustees were taken to court over grievances revealing Trustee malfeasance. > >Part of the reason for raising money specifically for legal action is the intitial research and preparation process, out of which legal action strategies and tactics can be determined which can be the foundation of a court victory to stop the Trustees closing down Antioch College as presently announced. > >Alumni Assn. efforts at persuasion, negotiation, and use of group influence will not work with the AU BOT. They are determined to move forward without interfence or interuption. ONLY legal action will stop their plans, and as important, ONLY legal action will cause them to be removed. > >If they remain, even under the best circumstances, the cancer which presently attacks Antioch College continues its life....the Antioch University Board Of Trustees and AU Chancellor ARE that cancer. All of these people must be removed, and whether they stay or go should not be up to them. > >These are assassins. It's important to be street smart about this. > >Naive thinking about the entire crisis we all face will result in losing the battle, and we are indeed engaged in, facing....a battle. > >Yazz Yazz, I agree that the research needs to be done and it is my understanding that the legal committee is doing that research on a pro bono to see if there is ANY standing the alumni association can claim, before spending serious money on it. Because The Univeristy is a not-for-profit without membership or shareholders and is not a trust the number of people with standing to sue is generally limited to thre classes: 1) A trustee or officer of the corporation and this is only likely if there is a good case for trustee disloyalty or self-dealing This is a possability because there are Trustees who disagreed with the decision AND think the trustees acted disloyaly and some might even have done a little self dealing. But disagreeing isn't enough. 2) State's attorney general to protect the interest of the public with respect to the assets pledged to public purposes etc. Interesting chances here because of WYSO, Glenn Helen both of which are pledged to public purposes. 3) Donors, their heirs or visitors who believe their restricted monies have been misused. But this would not be the AA. The problem though is that most courts begin with an presumption that trustees act in good faith, with due care and the the best interest of non-profit itself. Whatever we feel about the college, the Trustees duty is by to the insitution as a whole. Does that mean the AA should not persue the research? No. But i think it suggests we should not get het up about suing the U as a solution to the problem at hand. The faculty suit is a different matter and it is likely that there are some very nasty bits of e-mail waiting to be discovered. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Mon Aug 20 21:24:57 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Mon Aug 20 21:24:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1ec161004be9e47515657cfbff2fab22@antiochians.org> >Again, she is wrong about everything but the private life should stay that way. Travis, is it the "private" life or the "professional" life that is inappropriate for discussion in this forum? Deb published hearsay on a faculty member's "private" sex life in this forum for the purpose of advancing her argument. Deb stoops to this gutter level while citing her credentials as working with litigators in her "professional" capacity. If Deb wants to argue that a faculty member's sex life is not "private," then Deb opens the door to public criticisms concerning the "professional" credentials she flouts to bolster her argument. Don't let her bait you, Travis. You have valiantly defended Deb's honor. However, there are bigger dragons to slay than me. Our damsel is Antioch. Go rescue her! From mcconsult2000 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 00:03:42 2007 From: mcconsult2000 at yahoo.com (Dixie Maurer-clemons) Date: Tue Aug 21 00:03:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] August 23rd is coming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <635724.51917.qm@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It is more interesting than that. The Holiday Day Inn is actually at the airport on the Kentucky side of the river. "Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)" wrote: So who here will be attending this "open meeting"? http://www.antioch-college.edu/collegenews/docs/FromTheBoardofTrustees.pdf I'm hoping that people from this website will bring out some of the awesome information that has been discovered, and pose penetrating questions for all to hear, as the press will be reporting the proceedings. A Holiday Inn in Cinncinnatti? Who would have thunk things could sink this low? Jane Slater Ashland, OR Class of '80 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From matt at baya.net Tue Aug 21 00:03:24 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Tue Aug 21 00:06:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitelyvillain! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <846C1EB5-CAF4-4FE9-9F99-3AF4A1597EC0@baya.net> On Aug 20, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Gerry Bello wrote: > But it also lead to some really good pranks... > > The "Ink color memos" and the "prespective student memos" I don't recall the prespective student memo (do tell!) but the ink color one was mine... I'll fess up publicly on that one. For the record the memo was written as an April fools joke shortly after a 'real' memo was issued saying all official memos would be signed in blue ink. So the joke letter was supposedly an expansion of that idea saying that all memos from admins would be in blue, red ink for faculty, and pencil for students. (or something along those lines). I believe it ended with something like 'While it's clear this color coding may cause confusion it is necessary until the Antioch community is able to read and discern truth from parody on it's own'. SIgned Alan Guskin (w/ blue sig :) ) April 1, 199X (I don't recall the year, I'd guess it was 1994) I printed out enough to stuff one in every faculty/admin box and left a stack in the student mailroom too. I didn't hear any response to it for a day or so so I thought it had flopped until I heard someone else talking about it and saying 'Oh that was April Wolford, she's so funny' (April Wolford was working in the President's office at the time, so I'm pretty sure this was pre-crowfoot actually). I later asked April about this and she was really confused/annoyed by the fact that the whole campus thought she had done this prank, including, apparently, Guskin. :) This taught me a great lesson about practical jokes, always leave an evidence trail pointing to someone else so it is a double joke when there's any backlash :) -Matt From dlbahr at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 01:05:17 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Tue Aug 21 01:05:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 "alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)" alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org> wrote: >By the way, your team's favorite way of whipping Whipping Boy and his >friends -- snarky comments about integrity and insinuations about alleged >wrong doing -- What are you talking about? I am on no team. If I was going to point fingers I would start with Dixon. Birenbaum certainly has claims for finger pointing. I think the period of 1994-97 is significant in this saga. Understanding what occurred at AC during this period is a quagmire. I am no fan of Al Guskin because ultimately AC is weaker from his tenure. I agree with you that it has been a experiment in higher education management whether they are writing papers or not. Whether they are gradualist or extremist. Is Antioch College closing gradually or extremely? Sorry for the extra letter. Lesley A. Pownall Bahr '83 Buffalo, MN > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see trouble…before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 02:41:04 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Tue Aug 21 02:41:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4d5eabd7425e3e202dbdc42efe235cae@www.antiochians.org> On Monday August 20, 2007 alan bernard wrote: If you're talking about your favorite whipping boy, I'm pretty sure he was too busy raising funds and increasing enrollment while suffering from the effects of chemotherapy to write white papers about higher education management and then radically restructure entire universities on a whim. Whipping boy always struck me as a conservative gradualist. I do know that during the brief time we discussed Dr. Guskin he was curious as to the source of my distrust and anger. I'm not sure he appreciated it -- I've heard he and Dr. Guskin got along pretty well. I'm NOT sure sure he'd appreciate what have to say about Dr. Guskin now. Alan, Good grief, I think you're talking about me. I think I'd rather be a whipping boy than a "conservative gradualist". The truth is that I taught the entire time I was President, and had perhaps more disagreements with Guskin than did Crowfoot (he wasn't fond of the trimester calendar, thought the co-op stipends were wacked, wasn't sure we could pull off a summer program, thought I made some big personnel mistakes). To his credit, Al encouraged taking the risk of putting the library on line and wiring the campus, even though the money wasn't there, and respected the lines I drew around the autonomy of campus governance. Unlike my predecessor, I had some rapport with students, was able to build retention and enrollment and was able to raise money and even balanced the budget a couple of times. Obviously we got along well, but probably with more disagreement than agreement. I've been a persistent and vocal critic of the Renewal Plan, and I think Al's letter to Toni was deplorable....but consistent. From the comfort of a golden parachute I think it's easy to forget the damage caused to students, to faculty and to staff. Here's the thing about Al. People forget that the College was six months away from closing its doors in 1984, in a circumstance similar to where we are now -- low enrollment, diminished fundraising, a capital plant that was in far worse shape than the current campus -- and he managed to bring it back from the dead. Without Al Guskin and Leo Drey we wouldn't be dealing with our current angst because there wouldn't be an Antioch College to revive. At the risk of motive-mongering, I don't think I could ever trust ANYONE who WANTED to be President of Antioch College. Bob From theodora at imbris.com Tue Aug 21 02:59:39 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Tue Aug 21 02:55:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] op-ed article on Antioch In-Reply-To: <20070821040637.793C16123D56@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: Thanks so much for sharing this. It is heartening. Pam Quoted again here: By RICHARD COUTO TIMES-DISPATCH GUEST COLUMNIST The suspended operation of a small college in a small Midwestern village hardly seems newsworthy. However, the news about Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio, has generated press coverage around the world. Why? Sadly, the coverage to date gives inadequate answers. Conservatives gloat that the liberals did themselves in. Liberals lament the caricature of progressive politics that the college had become. Higher education observers cite the drop in student enrollment and the ramshackle appearance of the campus. Alumni name and blame those responsible, including themselves, for their beloved alma mater's demise. Meanwhile, Antioch administrators offer assurances that the university, of which the college was one part, remains alive and well. Thus the question remains: Why do people care so much about Antioch's fate? The answer is not so much in the fall of Antioch College or who pushed it, but in the fact that no school delivered on the promise of the liberal arts better. Its curriculum of engagement imparted a responsibility for fearless thinking and prepared people for a lifetime of inquiry and citizenship. No other set of students, proportionately, has garnered more prestigious awards or contributed more to the intellectual, political, and artistic leadership of this country than Antioch. These students include seven McArthur "genius" awardees and three Fulbright scholars in this past academic year alone. What goes into a curriculum of engagement? Ambitious goals and high expectations: The oft-cited words of Horace Mann, the college's first president, "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity," provide the bedrock of Antioch culture. People learn to shape unanswerable questions about race, violence, gender, power, culture, and civil liberties into manageable ones; to ask why these questions aren't asked; and to challenge assumptions about social institutions and arrangements that sustain social injustice -- from slavery and women's rights in 1852 to sweatshops in 2007. Heinz Eulau, who distinguished himself at Stanford and among political scientists, confessed, "I am still amazed today by the formidable set of intellectual demands I made on these Antioch undergraduates." Learning by doing and action research: In 1920, Arthur Morgan became president and instituted the nation's first system of cooperative education. Students alternated between a semester of work and "co-ops," which send students into the field for the practical application of knowledge. We now extol this mode of "reflective practice" as a principal source of creativity and excellence. In addition, class discussions and assignments were problem-centered in a manner that we now call a scholarship of engagement. Continuums constructed from dichotomies: One did not teach or study at Antioch as much as one spent time learning with others. The teacher/student dichotomy became a continuum along with campus and the "real world," acts and values, and rigor and relevance. Interdisciplinary work: Antioch's learning community reached out in all directions. The question "Knowledge for what?" trumped disciplinary restrictions on the methods of acquiring knowledge and gave everyone permission to read broadly and combine fields such as politics and psychology. Independence, Contention, Civility, and Community: Co-op semesters took students away from campus and contributed to a go-it-alone attitude, which bonded the college into a curious and often contentious community of independent individuals committed to consensus. In excess, the stress on independence fostered a paradoxical pressure to conform to styles of individualism and thinking for oneself. Contention inevitably followed. The commitment to freedom of inquiry within the college provided a code of civility and a counterbalance to the pressures to conform. An iconoclasm that embraces irony: Members of the Antioch learning community were encouraged to articulate and examine assumptions, including the icons of their own minds, in order to think independently. They learned how to think rather than what to think. Also, perhaps because of Antioch's contentious community, people reveled in being raw-edged scholars. They overcame the fear to act in an irreverent manner in order to destabilize the taken-for-granted or to entertain a new thought. Clifford Geertz, another in Antioch's galaxy of stars, may have best captured the depth of this dutiful irreverence by citing the impatience of Antioch's best faculty with its self-absorption and dysfunctional ritualistic iconoclasm. Antioch College fostered a nebula for stars in the intellectual, artistic, and civic firmament. We now have a dark hole in the space of higher education. Hopefully Antioch University will reignite its embers and other colleges will take on a sense of responsibility for their own curricula of fearless thinking. That's why so many people care about what happens to a small college in an Ohio village midway between Springfield and Xenia, Ohio. Richard A. Couto, a Mechanicsville resident, teaches in the Antioch University PhD program on leadership and change. He was a founding faculty member of the Jepson School of Leadership Studies of the University of Richmond. ********** Jeanne Badman '80 Antioch Alumni Chat lurker since 1996 From dawn at mediawonk.com Tue Aug 21 03:17:04 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Tue Aug 21 03:17:26 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question Message-ID: An anonymous poster ("rascal") wrote: "Travis, is it the "private" life or the "professional" life that is inappropriate for discussion in this forum?...etc.etc." I'm not providing the whole quote because that discussion doesn't need rehashed but: agree with Deb's comments or not; she does have the decency to sign her name and stand by what she believes. These anonymous potshots have gone on long enough. A better nickname for this behavior would be 'weasel'. Dawn From Sistersara at aol.com Tue Aug 21 06:21:07 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 21 06:21:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/2007 4:22:54 P.M. Central Daylight Time, marklp2@comcast.net writes: >Why exactly is an imperialist party being discussed? > > > >Who got us into Vietnam? > > > >Who has controled congress for the last 8 months and why are we still in Iraq? > > > >You people talk about Democracy like there actually is one in this country. > In so-called democracies people vote... that doesnt happen here. > > > >Earth people... talk about planet earth > Well, I was engaging Sistersara on her terms - she believed that the reforms she > mentioned helped to make the Democratic party better and more representative, > and I suppose, in that fashion, the DP would be better for the world. > > This is perhaps theoretically possible, but I said "I hope it happens again" > cause the DP still hasn't achieved whatever promise it's supposed to have. I > don't particularly expect it to. > > But I have no problem with the internal DP reformers, so long as they don't > attack me as a traitor for believing it's better to work outside to achieve > progressive social change. Many people have far too expansive a view as to what a Political Party is for. It actually has two missions, first to find good candidates who have the talents for public service, and use your nominating and/or endorsement process to get them actual major party candidate status. Second, once you have candidates, you use collective assets to get them elected. Once elected, you seek to improve their knowledge of public policy, with particular respect to the constituency they represent, and if they do well, you seek to get them re-elected, and in some cases, elected to higher office. That's it. Everything else comes from the outside. Social Movements produce appetites for candidates who pick up on different kinds of issues. People may be variously concerned about Health Care, Iraq, Education, the state of the country's military, vet benefits, labor law, environmental regulation -- and much else and for these issues there are all sorts of organizations that deal in establishing the particulars. A political party then in the famous words of Senator Paul Wellstone, "is just a megaphone through which you amplify your message." You decide who among possible candidates is best for the issues you care about, and then you work the processes of the party to move them into candidacy positions in the right place, and then you apply your assets to get them elected. The Democratic Party (and the DFL in Minnesota) does not have a Foreign Policy. What we have is a range of people and organizations with Foreign Policy interests who identify as Democrats but don't necessarily agree with each other. They seek to position candidates that agree on certain key issues to run and to win, and thus have offices where they can advocate and perhaps execute those policy ideas. But the party itself doesn't create foreign policy or any other sort of policy. Our reforms that began in the wake of Chicago 68 were mostly about making the party much more open -- much more accessible for all sorts of movements and interest groups to just use as a means of promoting a whole range of ideas and issues. When the party bosses and the elites held all the cards as to how delegates were selected, who was tapped for a nomination and all -- the agenda was fairly narrow. Once we opened up after 72, the range and character of ideas and issues changed. And so long as outside interests that concern public policy need a platform, the party will keep changing. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Sistersara at aol.com Tue Aug 21 07:28:21 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 21 07:28:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/2007 12:57:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: I find it counter to most of Sally's other posts that she advocates using people unconnected to the issue to resolve the problem. This is non-sensical in the "real world" she and Thelma yawn on about, where even the most retrograde middle manager knows that top-down change rarely produces value and eventually leads to pointless, epxensive and damaging bloodletting. Use almost any corporate merger you can think of in the past twenty years and most of them result in zero or negative gain in equity for the average shareholder and certainly a negative outcome for employees who are suddenly redundant and even greater stresses for those who stay take on the extra-work. As I see it, a Framework committee -- short term, does one thing. It lays out a comprehensive work plan, all the tasks that have to be taken up, and essentially in what order. What resources need to be in place in order for the work to proceed. It makes no assumptions about the end product, and it goes out of business once it has produced the framework. My guess is that such a Framework Committee would recognize that this re-organization is going to be a huge project, something that will not be possible for Board members to spend lots of time on, given that they have to run four currently operating colleges. The key will come when they realize they have to hire some personnel to move all the tasks forward, and they will need an undistracted Executive Director to lead this process. I hope they see that reality fairly soon. I think we will be able to judge the seriousness of their stated intent to reorganize and reopen by the speed and the quality of the people they attract to actually do the work, and I would add, the manner in which they reach out to Antiochians and Friends of Antioch and invite them to engage on one or another of the massive tasks ahead. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From Sistersara at aol.com Tue Aug 21 08:15:13 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 21 08:15:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/2007 12:04:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: However, I find a great deal of your well written and thought out position on the role of the CRM on the DP to be in sharp opposition to the "accepted" narrative offered by say Taylor Branch. I suppose it is likely that historians tend to assume that the central topic of their disertation is also the nexus of world events. So Caro views LBJ and the D-party and Branch views Dr King as as the central agent of change in those years. An interesting disscusion, and Rowan made a very competent argument and addition to the conversation that you chose to dismiss without even cursory review. If I am mistaken, correct me, but it seems to me that you don't have much respect for the views of those younger than you, particularly those Antiochians that are are younger. I don't distain younger people, Antiochian or not -- but I do have problems with misrepresentation. Yes, I agree that at least at this point Taylor Branch's narrative on King is the best we have available, but he was not writing a political history, he was focused on a particular leader of a moral movement that at times had to act through the political process. King was not a politician. In contrast, Caro is writing political biography, and thus he must focus on the institutions through which LBJ worked during his career. LBJ was through and through a politician. To hold power, he had to keep his party in power, and part of that was clearly recognizing when change was necessary, and directing that change to his ends. When it became clear from an analysis of election results in 1948 that the reason Truman won was because of the Black Vote in Northern Industrial States (a class of voters Gallup did not know how to poll in 1948), LBJ recognized the need to diversify Senate Leadership so as to allow these new Democratic Voters to see their interests served by Democratic Leaders. Gradually during the 50's, LBJ convinced some Southern Senators to allow the more progressive Democratic Senators something of a leadership role, and gradually that group in collaboration with some Progressive Republicans became the coalition that could deliver on legislation in the 1960's. But they were two separate entities, pursuing quite independent goals, by quite different means. King was leading a moral movement designed to radically change attitudes and behavior regarding race, and LBJ was interested in acquiring and holding power for his political agenda, and one way to accomplish that was to lead on including in the Democratic Party the vast majority of Black voters. They overlap when things such as the content of the 64 Civil Rights Bill or the 65 Voting Rights Bill required political action. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From FRESHT at jfs.hamilton-co.org Tue Aug 21 08:51:08 2007 From: FRESHT at jfs.hamilton-co.org (TERRI FRESHLEY) Date: Tue Aug 21 08:51:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. Message-ID: What is happening on the 23rd? I thought students were not scheduled to be there until the 26th. Terri Freshley >>> alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org 8/20/2007 6:39 PM >>> >Hi Terri, > >We won't really know until everyone shows up, but the >projections are 60-67 first-year students. The total >student enrollment is projected to be between 225-250. > >Robin >looking forward to seeing and meeting everyone on the 23rd. should be interesting. >--- TERRI FRESHLEY wrote: > >>I am the Mom of an incoming junior, and have been on >>this board a few >>times. >>I wonder how many incoming students there will be - >>does anyone really >>know? >>Terri Freshley >> >>>>> >>PM >>> >> >>>Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this >>crisis is just >>plain >>>touching. When you said something like "whatever >>happens, it's bound >>to be >>>a highly educational year" I melted. That's the >>true Antioch faith >>and >>>spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch >>education. While >>the rest >>>of us make noise, you (and another mother) take >>simple action, so your >>child >>>can have the experience, however brief. I love it. >>Wouldn't it be a >>scream >>>if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of >>us alumni should >>register. >>>At Antioch, I was always among the most naive about >>politics, and I >>find, >>>listening to everyone's descriptions of the >>administration, etc., that >>I >>>still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they send >>the rest of us out >>to >>>win victories and live on the edge. No better than >>all the insurance >>>company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can >>line their pockets. >>I >>>was right in my very first post: The world IS >>going to the dogs! >>>People like Miriam will save it. >>> >>> >>>Pam >>As the originator of the "mother of incoming >>freshman" postings I am >>still surprised by the lack of communication from >>other parents. >> >> >> >> >>This e-mail message, including any attachments, is >>for the sole >>use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain >>private, >>confidential and/or privileged information. Any >>unauthorized >>review, use, disclosure or distribution is >>prohibited. If you are >>not the intended recipient, employee or agent >>responsible for >>delivering this message, please contact the sender >>by reply e- >>mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail >>message. >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain private, confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, employee or agent responsible for delivering this message, please contact the sender by reply e- mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail message. From celticbear3 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 08:59:02 2007 From: celticbear3 at yahoo.com (Robin Heise) Date: Tue Aug 21 08:59:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <981252.86937.qm@web32807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> New student orientation is the 23rd. You can view the schedule online at: http://www.antioch-college.edu/Admissions/admit/orientation.html Continuing students begin arriving back to campus on the 26th. I hope this helps. Robin --- TERRI FRESHLEY wrote: > What is happening on the 23rd? I thought students > were not scheduled to > be there until the 26th. > Terri Freshley > > >>> alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org 8/20/2007 6:39 > PM >>> > > >Hi Terri, > > > >We won't really know until everyone shows up, but > the > >projections are 60-67 first-year students. The > total > >student enrollment is projected to be between > 225-250. > > > >Robin > >looking forward to seeing and meeting everyone on > the 23rd. should be > interesting. > >--- TERRI FRESHLEY > wrote: > > > >>I am the Mom of an incoming junior, and have been > on > >>this board a few > >>times. > >>I wonder how many incoming students there will be > - > >>does anyone really > >>know? > >>Terri Freshley > >> > >>>>> > >>PM >>> > >> > >>>Miriam, sending your child to Antioch during this > >>crisis is just > >>plain > >>>touching. When you said something like "whatever > >>happens, it's bound > >>to be > >>>a highly educational year" I melted. That's the > >>true Antioch faith > >>and > >>>spirit, and recognizes what is real about Antioch > >>education. While > >>the rest > >>>of us make noise, you (and another mother) take > >>simple action, so your > >>child > >>>can have the experience, however brief. I love > it. > >>Wouldn't it be a > >>scream > >>>if about 1000 students showed up. Maybe a few of > >>us alumni should > >>register. > >>>At Antioch, I was always among the most naive > about > >>politics, and I > >>find, > >>>listening to everyone's descriptions of the > >>administration, etc., that > >>I > >>>still am. FOUR salaries? Gheezh! While they > send > >>the rest of us out > >>to > >>>win victories and live on the edge. No better > than > >>all the insurance > >>>company CEOS that bleed us providers so they can > >>line their pockets. > >>I > >>>was right in my very first post: The world IS > >>going to the dogs! > >>>People like Miriam will save it. > >>> > >>> > >>>Pam > >>As the originator of the "mother of incoming > >>freshman" postings I am > >>still surprised by the lack of communication from > >>other parents. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>This e-mail message, including any attachments, is > >>for the sole > >>use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain > >>private, > >>confidential and/or privileged information. Any > >>unauthorized > >>review, use, disclosure or distribution is > >>prohibited. If you are > >>not the intended recipient, employee or agent > >>responsible for > >>delivering this message, please contact the sender > >>by reply e- > >>mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail > >>message. > >____________________________________________________________________________________ > >Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. > Join Yahoo!'s user > panel and lay it on us. > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > > > > > This e-mail message, including any attachments, is > for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain > private, > confidential and/or privileged information. Any > unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is > prohibited. If you are > not the intended recipient, employee or agent > responsible for > delivering this message, please contact the sender > by reply e- > mail and destroy all copies of the original e-mail > message. > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 09:40:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 09:40:38 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] August 23rd is coming In-Reply-To: <635724.51917.qm@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow, they had to change states. They must feel our fury. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 09:47:30 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 09:47:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <558e377ce626d069564c30c140b0bf3d@antiochians.org> >agree with Deb's comments or not; she does have the decency to >sign her name and stand by what she believes What substance does Deb add to any discussion? This thread was posed with a "question" designed to attack the "professionalism" of a sitting Antioch professor. The substance of Deb's posts are: 1) attack alumni for being "stupid" for being upset that the webinar did not occur, flouting her legal prowess and knowledge in so doing; 2) attempt to discredit any arguments made by a particular faculty member because of who he slept with; and 3) inferring a "professional" conflict with a vulnerable sitting professor, in perhaps his last year at Antioch, because he solicited donations from the parents of an incoming freshman to aid in the faculty lawsuit against the BoT. And to get to your point, Dawn, who says I'm "anonymous"? There are folks on here (http://antiochians.org), primarily friends, who know who I am and when I attended Antioch. More importantly if you don't know who I am, and you think this besets any comment I make, then take whatever I say with a grain of salt. Or don't. Kick and scream every time I post something. I can live with either. There are dozens of folks on antiochians.org that I don't know the identity of, I just don't demand they post their their unmarried, preoperative, non-nick names while at Antioch, and the year they walked the mound. (It isn't apparent from everyone's login name who they claim to be, and most people, yourself included, do not include their name and year of graduation in signing off on every single post.) Further, if you think I have taken a single "potshot" at Deb, oh well. I haven't. Deb has opened the door to criticism. From aadole at adelphia.net Tue Aug 21 13:27:43 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Tue Aug 21 10:27:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] RE: Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <003101c7e361$ee4f3650$caeda2f0$@net> Message-ID: On 8/20/07 12:40 PM, "E. Daniel Ayres" wrote: > SisterSarah's question is a good one... > >> So how do you move from warfare to future vision? > > In the specific Antioch College case, the "warfare" has been ongoing to the > detriment of all parties at least since the foundation of the AIF. The fact > that those pledges and assets were dissipated rather than injected into the > College left the Alumnae who participated in that process with a very bad > taste in their mouths. > > To me, first steps toward the future vision must be an agreement among all > the parties to figure out a way to move forward which can be supported by > all parties. This means full and honest fact finding and review of the > "fiscal management" issues. It means accepting the fact that by declaring > "exigency" and proceeding with a "shut down plan" the UBoT has almost > guaranteed a temporary closure no matter how dissatisfactory that may seem > to the majority of Alumnae. It would help a lot if the UBoT would be > willing to consider the Alumnae of the college and their currently serving > board as an "interim" board of the College and charge them with quickly and > democratically refreshing themselves as the governing board of the college > to be saved/revived in Yellow Springs. > > I personally have no problem with "shared services" as a principle which > provides effective and appropriate service levels for all programs in a > university system. What seems to me to be problematic is the compensation > of so many different "chiefs" at the expense of needed "Indians." Also > problematic are "shared services" which are allocated in ways which are not > transparent to all parties and subject to ongoing appraisal and > re-evaluation procedures accepted by all. We don't need a lot of central > administrators at the University level, each "center" or "program" needs > leadership compensated at a level appropriate to the size of the piece of > the pie and a commitment by that leadership to provide its "fair share" of > the sacrifices necessary to keep the entire enterprise together and to nurse > it back to health. > > I believe an honest and in-depth fiscal analysis of the whole Antioch > University "system" will reveal that we have been spending entirely too much > of the limited resources and income from programs in executive compensation, > and finding a way to "flatten" the hierarchy will be a critical factor in > any long-term successful proposal. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > Here's my simplistic theory about " Non-profit University" with six far flung branches. It's a semi-fraud. For-profit universities like Phoenix are big business. By using part-time untenured instructors (employees rather costly independent scholars) and the latest technology, they can offer very inexpensive degrees to a mass market of employed adults living at home. They sell stock and pay taxes. Tax exemption because of a prestigious logo gives the alleged Non-profit U. an extra advantage over Phoenix. This unusual university (hardly comparable to Princeton or Stanford) can afford to pay its "presidents" (who would be deans under the thumb of higher administration in a traditional university) well if they follow orders. One branch, once independent, but still with tenured faculty, an effective program, and a national reputation, but with "difficult" able late adolescent residential students, is expensive and expendable. "Let's put it in the deep freeze for four years." Then it can be "reinvented" as a money maker. Non Profit U. will still have the same name and reputation but with pliable part-time instructors and complacent mature customers who are scattered all over the country. In the business world this happens all the time. Your friendly local grocery is suddenly a branch of Hannafords, located in Belgium.. If you as alumni/faculty/staff/students/parents/ community accept this analysis, how do you respond creatively and effectively? Art Dole '46 From dlbahr at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 10:28:02 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Tue Aug 21 10:28:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:41:04 -0500 "bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)" wrote: >I think Al's letter to Toni was deplorable....but consistent. Where is this letter? The Antioch Papers? >Here's the thing about Al. People forget that the College was six months >away from closing its doors in 1984, in a circumstance similar to where we >are now -- low enrollment, diminished fundraising, a capital plant that was >in far worse shape than the current campus -- and he managed to bring it >back from the dead. Without Al Guskin and Leo Drey we wouldn't be dealing >with our current angst because there wouldn't be an Antioch College to >revive. I would give Leo Drey most of the credit. I also think VonMatthissen was a key leader. Al seemed so good on paper. It seemed like the college was making improvements and then the whole thing took this nose dive in 1994, IMHO. I am disappointed that for the length of his tenure he did not accomplish more with "renewal"--and ultimately the Chancellor/ULC/"federalism" has done little for AC. Early on someone made the analogy that the capital improvements were like giving a facelift to a patient with major heart problems. I think SisterSara said his strategy was flawed--that he focused on capital improvements first without a second equal focus on faculty recruitment. Al did not seem to keep up with the large cultural changes occurring during his tenure. Many core faculty retired in the early to mid nineties and it does not look like many were replaced. There may have been some that transferred to Seattle or New England? The dwindling ranks were asked multiple times to revamp the curriculum. I think these attempts were flawed. Faculty are key to a successful liberal arts college. At larger schools students do not get this exchange with their professors--it is crucial to have a strong faculty. Of course, I am viewing this from a distant, detached and rather pedestrian perspective. Crowfoot's treatment is a gaping hole in the story to my eye. I do not know the man but I am not sure if the issue was competence or just a different style. He had history with Al from U of MI so perhaps it was a personal issue. He offended a Union employee--which can happen at Antioch. Anger management can be an issue on campus. I have heard that Lawry got a brick thrown through the window on his first day on campus--so I do not know if rapport with students should be the only criteria for a College President. Sometimes leadership has to exercise that dreaded need for logos. By the way--who would have been responsible for granting tenure in 1994? Was that in Guskin's realm or Crowfoot's--do you know, Bob? Given the last 35-40 year trajectory, it is amazing how Antioch College has continued to survive. It has deep roots--which I attribute to character and place. However, it needs leadership that can absorb the history while visioning a future--not easy to do especially with a University spread across USA and a campus that often feels empty. Sustainability is a key issue at this time. A liberal arts college, with a tradition such as Antioch is not a obsolete commodity. There are worse things than being mid-western. I still think it is achievable goal to have a residential, liberal arts college in Yellow Springs past the first decade of the 21st Century. The underlying issue is the Network/University. Antioch's experiment spun way out during the Great Society era--and we seem unable to restore the campus and endowment to vitality. This larger structure has used the history and good name of Antioch College for its own promotion. Now McGregor has absorbed many of the programs that used to be part of the College--how weird is that? I still have a bad impression from reading the QA/PR out of McGregor when AC closure was announced. I am sure that the institutions in Network which have survived are doing worthy work. I do not think that Antioch College should be what is sacrificed--it needs its independence. I believe it has been poorly managed and that no leader can be effective in its current structure. The current structure also makes fund raising problematic. It is difficult to begin visioning a future without autonomy. It still is puzzling to me why AC alumni have been so discounted in the equation. It is puzzling why the closing was handled this way. Lesley A. Pownall Bahr '83 Buffalo, MN >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 From aadole at adelphia.net Tue Aug 21 13:33:06 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Tue Aug 21 10:33:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8/20/07 1:21 PM, "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" wrote: > Art, > > Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I believe in the Du Boise-ian > talented tenth to actually enact policy and action but I think it still needs > to be vetted by the general public and the stakeholders. But my point really > is that I think it is wrong to assume that we need a massive make-over and > reinvention to make the College work and talented leaders seem to want a clean > slate and I find that unfortunate. If I may coop Mark'c comments about working > from within for change, I want to work with in the Antioch College system or > paradigm to find a solution. I do not believe and neither do you, from what I > can tell, in the University system to work for change. > > What kind of a leadership would be welcomed at the college by the students and > faculty? Refering back to Alan's posting I think the problem is not the > students but the elite leadership that constantly seeks to reject the > generation fo the college post-Strike. This generations has proven itself to > be more radical, more confrontational in its politcs than others, but no less > educated or passionate in their pursuit of justice. > > > > Travis, well put. Art From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 10:53:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 10:53:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <866a99e694140fa183c957644a2d9b51@antiochians.org> >Here's my simplistic theory about " Non-profit University" with six far >flung branches. It's a semi-fraud. For-profit universities like Phoenix are >big business. By using part-time untenured instructors (employees rather >costly independent scholars) and the latest technology, they can offer very >inexpensive degrees to a mass market of employed adults living at home. They >sell stock and pay taxes. >Tax exemption because of a prestigious logo gives the alleged >Non-profit U. an extra advantage over Phoenix. This unusual university >(hardly comparable to Princeton or Stanford) can afford to pay its >"presidents" (who would be deans under the thumb of higher administration in >a traditional university) well if they follow orders. One branch, once >independent, but still with tenured faculty, an effective program, and a >national reputation, but with "difficult" able late adolescent residential >students, is expensive and expendable. "Let's put it in the deep freeze for >four years." Then it can be "reinvented" as a money maker. Non Profit U. >will still have the same name and reputation but with pliable part-time >instructors and complacent mature customers who are scattered all over the >country. > >In the business world this happens all the time. Your friendly local grocery >is suddenly a branch of Hannafords, located in Belgium.. > >If you as alumni/faculty/staff/students/parents/ community accept this >analysis, how do you respond creatively and effectively? > >Art Dole '46 Art, thank you very, very much for writing that. Alan From eayres at comcast.net Tue Aug 21 10:59:14 2007 From: eayres at comcast.net (E. Daniel Ayres) Date: Tue Aug 21 11:00:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Bello vs Pomerantz... Message-ID: <00ab01c7e403$d741d880$85c58980$@net> Inside the system, outside the system? NO! The idea that there IS a system is a significant part of the problem. Organizations and quasi-organizational entities and processes have a number of as-yet not fully understood attributes, dynamics, flaws, and potential outcomes. The weird "blind spots" in the culture of Antioch illustrate my point. A fairly superficial reading of the history of Antioch will show that financial management and fiscal discipline/fundraising from a position of focus and strength, have always been a difficult problem for us. If we are "doing well" we have a tendency to "let well enough alone" and often don't become aware of financial management problems/issues until "too late." Our ability to let significant pillars of a Liberal Education slip away relatively unnoticed over the years is corollary. Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, the so-called "hard sciences" have been viewed with ambivalence by Antioch for at least a couple of generations, and in that time, allowed to fade away. The UBot's call for a complete "from the ground up" review and building effort has been couched in terms that many of us find offensive for one reason or another, but calling for "resurrection" of a failing memory of some idealized Antioch with a "full curriculum of Liberal Education" is just as bad. The current situation as viewed by the board has been declared untenable. Unfortunately, it appears that they have thrown up their hands in despair rather than taking the difficult "next steps" to analyze what Antioch can and should become and present it clearly. "We" and "they" both need help as we pursue the essential visionary and planning effort which can lead to a "system" that works, not one that fails repeatedly to deal with fundamental issues. The timing is critical. The work must be done NOW if not yesterday. E. Daniel Ayres '66 Aka. ZundapMan http://home.comcast.net/~eayres From gerrybello at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 11:04:58 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Tue Aug 21 11:05:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Bello vs Pomerantz... In-Reply-To: <00ab01c7e403$d741d880$85c58980$@net> Message-ID: I read the title and was wondering about the context.... I'm fighting in an underground mma tournment tonite. Gonna get my ass beat... I'm getting swivel chair spread hanging around here to much... Not enough coffee... I thought I was going to have to go 5 rounds with Mark. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "E. Daniel Ayres" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "Alumni Chat List" >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Bello vs Pomerantz... >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:59:14 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc4-f10.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, >21 Aug 2007 08:00:47 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 04C29612648F;Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:00:53 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from alnrmhc13.comcast.net (alnrmhc13.comcast.net >[204.127.225.93])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96161612646Ffor >; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:00:50 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from acerpowerfh >(c-68-61-157-252.hsd1.mi.comcast.net[68.61.157.252])by comcast.net >(alnrmhc13) with SMTPid <20070821150043b1300ef8vbe>; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 >15:00:43 +0000 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >U2wzkPk8/jb2IoVU2Z5nzGC+KgZY0RGZ+ql4qSA6O4lCDBtcd7jh2bhocVW+++ER+TpQ8lxRvKg7MCSABjZtqw== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 >Thread-Index: AcfkA9ZT7ZiWmcmbQJml3jRPs5UPUA== >Content-Language: en-us >X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2007 15:00:47.0705 (UTC) >FILETIME=[0E774C90:01C7E404] > >Inside the system, outside the system? NO! The idea that there IS a >system is a significant part of the problem. Organizations and >quasi-organizational entities and processes have a number of as-yet not >fully understood attributes, dynamics, flaws, and potential outcomes. > > > >The weird "blind spots" in the culture of Antioch illustrate my point. A >fairly superficial reading of the history of Antioch will show that >financial management and fiscal discipline/fundraising from a position of >focus and strength, have always been a difficult problem for us. If we are >"doing well" we have a tendency to "let well enough alone" and often don't >become aware of financial management problems/issues until "too late." Our >ability to let significant pillars of a Liberal Education slip away >relatively unnoticed over the years is corollary. Mathematics, Chemistry, >Physics, the so-called "hard sciences" have been viewed with ambivalence by >Antioch for at least a couple of generations, and in that time, allowed to >fade away. > > > >The UBot's call for a complete "from the ground up" review and building >effort has been couched in terms that many of us find offensive for one >reason or another, but calling for "resurrection" of a failing memory of >some idealized Antioch with a "full curriculum of Liberal Education" is >just >as bad. The current situation as viewed by the board has been declared >untenable. Unfortunately, it appears that they have thrown up their hands >in despair rather than taking the difficult "next steps" to analyze what >Antioch can and should become and present it clearly. > > > >"We" and "they" both need help as we pursue the essential visionary and >planning effort which can lead to a "system" that works, not one that fails >repeatedly to deal with fundamental issues. The timing is critical. The >work must be done NOW if not yesterday. > > > >E. Daniel Ayres '66 > >Aka. ZundapMan > >http://home.comcast.net/~eayres > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From duffy at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 11:24:55 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Tue Aug 21 11:35:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Revival fund Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:19:14 AM Pulse From: Dennie Eagleson Subject: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Revival fund To: Announcements Pulse PUPPET MAKERS AND ANTIOCH GRADS DONATE TO THE FACULTY LEGAL FUND AND THE COLLEGE REVIVAL FUND Atis and Judy Folkmanis, Antioch grads from '63 and '64 have contributed $20,000 to the Faculty Legal Fund, and $80,000 to the College Revival Fund. Atis and his family were living in a displaced persons camp in Germany from 1945-1949. They were sponsored by Antioch College and the Presbyterian Church to come to Yellow Springs. Atis believes that Antioch "saved his life". He grew up in Yellow Springs, met Judy at Antioch, and they moved to Berkeley where Judy created a business making puppets. Their business is known as Folkmanis (you can buy their very realistic animal puppets in the Glen Helen Nature Shop). Atis and Judy were Rebecca Rice award winners in 2005. They have been contributing regularly to Antioch. They attended a meeting on Sunday in Berkeley and met Anne Townsend, Kelly Kersting and Barry (Dallas) Grennell. They had received the Alumni Board letter from Nancy Crowe the same day, and became aware of the Revival efforts. THIS IS SUCH A GREAT STORY!!! Dennie From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 12:27:07 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 12:27:02 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: <970580.30649.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >It appears that the Board of Trustees has breached its fiduciary obligations to Antioch College and that consideration should be given to a lawsuit based on that breach that is separate from the faculty lawsuit, which is more narrowly focused on the Board's alleged breach of contractual obligations owed the faculty. An honest question (and one that may be very complex and/or unaswerable): does the BoT have a fiduciary obligation to the College? Obviously they have one for the University, but is the financial health of any individual campus part of that charge? Skooter From gerrybello at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 12:37:00 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Tue Aug 21 12:37:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Skooter in a word yes. Considering they have a duty to the university as a whole then they have a duty to the flagship enterprise/brand building campus. The vast majority of the Alumni come from that campus. Thus part of their duty (since we give them most of their endowment and expansion capital and 7% of their operating budget) is to not piss us off and give up a 2 -5 million a year revanune stream. Our goodwill is a tangible asset they are neglecting. simple. ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:27:07 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc12-f8.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, >21 Aug 2007 09:26:57 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 768376126808;Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:27:02 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA6561267ECfor >; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:27:00 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1INWZP-0007yU-Mufor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:27:07 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAVHerKCqMJJ7C9e9RZhNObyms4T7XULMDKSJwle2Q6t31e8E/628DxKQ2QWPq+b13qGzCThVAHCMQ== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2007 16:26:57.0372 (UTC) >FILETIME=[17D3E1C0:01C7E410] > > > >It appears that the Board of Trustees has breached its fiduciary >obligations to Antioch College and that consideration should be given to a >lawsuit based on that breach that is separate from the faculty lawsuit, >which is more narrowly focused on the Board's alleged breach of contractual >obligations owed the faculty. >An honest question (and one that may be very complex and/or unaswerable): >does the BoT have a fiduciary obligation to the College? Obviously they >have one for the University, but is the financial health of any individual >campus part of that charge? > >Skooter > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 12:53:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 12:53:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit Message-ID: >Good grief, I think you're talking about me. I think I'd rather be a whipping boy than a "conservative gradualist". Conservative and gradual in terms of changing the campus and its structures. Reports are that you put your head down and pulled hard in the harness -- raising money, fostering community, setting a tone. The stuff I think a president should do, rather then either swinging a mighty sword of vengeance (or tooting an ineffectual kazoo of indecision), or constructing a superstructure over the governance process and building a throne room in it, with space for the privy council, and moving in. I regret being imprecise -- I wasn't referring to personal politics. However, you did make the effort to show up at all time in a suit and a smart haircut and role model the kind of person who can get things done. >The truth is that I taught the entire time I was President, and had perhaps more disagreements with Guskin than did Crowfoot (he wasn't fond of the trimester calendar, thought the co-op stipends were wacked, wasn't sure we could pull off a summer program, thought I made some big personnel mistakes). To his credit, Al encouraged taking the risk of putting the library on line and wiring the campus, even though the money wasn't there, and respected the lines I drew around the autonomy of campus governance. Unlike my predecessor, I had some rapport with students, was able to build retention and enrollment and was able to raise money and even balanced the budget a couple of times. Obviously we got along well, but probably with more disagreement than agreement. I've been a persistent and vocal critic of the Renewal Plan, and I think Al's letter to Toni was deplorable....but consistent. From the comfort of a golden parachute I think it's easy to forget the damage caused to students, >to faculty and to staff. Even when I was mad as hell at Alan Guskin, I did thought he deserved respect. It's too bad that he seems to be a mover and shaker behind a profoundly disrespectful decision. I hope that there are people he will still listen to who can remind him of what decisions taken in the throne room can do to the peasants shoveling dung out in the pasture. >Here's the thing about Al. People forget that the College was six months away from closing its doors in 1984, in a circumstance similar to where we are now -- low enrollment, diminished fundraising, a capital plant that was in far worse shape than the current campus -- and he managed to bring it back from the dead. Without Al Guskin and Leo Drey we wouldn't be dealing with our current angst because there wouldn't be an Antioch College to revive. Granted all of that and with our gratitude understood, I'm saddened that he does not seem to want to follow through and strengthen and preserve what he saved. No, I'm not sad. I'm furious. >At the risk of motive-mongering, I don't think I could ever trust ANYONE who WANTED to be President of Antioch College. > >Bob If the motive is to use it as a experimental platform for crack-brained management plans intended to impress the other Ed.D.'s of the world, no, they are not worthy of trust. Alan From lirazel at theworld.com Tue Aug 21 13:00:56 2007 From: lirazel at theworld.com (Lauren Page) Date: Tue Aug 21 13:02:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and theRevival fund In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c7e414$daf2e9e0$2f01a8c0@laurenndb40xz6> This is wonderful. I've been buying Folkmanis puppets for years, and now I feel as though I, personally, have gotten every penny back and then some. Lauren Hassol Page, '77 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Duffy Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:25 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and theRevival fund ----- Original Message ----- Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:19:14 AM Pulse From: Dennie Eagleson Subject: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Revival fund To: Announcements Pulse PUPPET MAKERS AND ANTIOCH GRADS DONATE TO THE FACULTY LEGAL FUND AND THE COLLEGE REVIVAL FUND Atis and Judy Folkmanis, Antioch grads from '63 and '64 have contributed $20,000 to the Faculty Legal Fund, and $80,000 to the College Revival Fund. Atis and his family were living in a displaced persons camp in Germany from 1945-1949. They were sponsored by Antioch College and the Presbyterian Church to come to Yellow Springs. Atis believes that Antioch "saved his life". He grew up in Yellow Springs, met Judy at Antioch, and they moved to Berkeley where Judy created a business making puppets. Their business is known as Folkmanis (you can buy their very realistic animal puppets in the Glen Helen Nature Shop). Atis and Judy were Rebecca Rice award winners in 2005. They have been contributing regularly to Antioch. They attended a meeting on Sunday in Berkeley and met Anne Townsend, Kelly Kersting and Barry (Dallas) Grennell. They had received the Alumni Board letter from Nancy Crowe the same day, and became aware of the Revival efforts. THIS IS SUCH A GREAT STORY!!! Dennie _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 14:04:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:04:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alan wrote: Granting all of that and with our gratitude understood, I'm saddened that he does not seem to want to follow through and strengthen and preserve what he saved. No, I'm not sad. I'm furious. Alan, Not surprisingly, I agree completely. I'm also furious. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 14:27:13 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:27:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alan said: ineffectual kazoo of indecision Me: I want one. From aadole at adelphia.net Tue Aug 21 17:29:26 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:29:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Save Antioch Message-ID: I had lunch today with two Harvard alumni. When they asked about the College closing, I gave them as full and biased an account as I could. One chap commented, "You claim Antioch offers a great education, perhaps even better than Harvard. It' up to you alumni to prove the worth of that education. In fact, you have an opportunity." Art Dole From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 14:35:01 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:35:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Save Antioch Message-ID: <54923.49088.qm@web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I seem to know only Harvard alums in New York. Not a one would contest the superiority of an Antioch education. But what we need to prove is not merely that Antioch offers an unparalleled education, but that it does, in fact, confer superpowers. >"You claim Antioch offers a great education, perhaps even better >than Harvard. It' up to you alumni to prove the worth of that education. In >fact, you have an opportunity." ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ From matt at baya.net Tue Aug 21 14:42:14 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:36:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Save Antioch In-Reply-To: <54923.49088.qm@web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <54923.49088.qm@web53407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OOh.. I think I see a new t-shirt design emerging ... -Matt On Aug 21, 2007, at 2:35 PM, Matthew Arnold wrote: > I seem to know only Harvard alums in New York. Not a one would > contest the superiority of an Antioch education. But what we need > to prove is not merely that Antioch offers an unparalleled > education, but that it does, in fact, confer superpowers. > >> "You claim Antioch offers a great education, perhaps even better >> than Harvard. It' up to you alumni to prove the worth of that >> education. In >> fact, you have an opportunity." > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > http://sims.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 14:41:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:41:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Save Antioch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5b6920254711261d9c7d09d1e859fe1f@antiochians.org> >OOh.. I think I see a new t-shirt design emerging ... > >-Matt ______________________________________________________________________ ...and not a cape? OH man Marketing/Admissions folks...when we start recruiting again, let's do it in GRAPHIC NOVEL FORM! From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 14:31:09 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:41:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Revival_?= f In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bravo and Brava to them!!! Our undying gratitude!! Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List writes: > >----- Original Message ----- > > Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:19:14 AM >Pulse >From: Dennie Eagleson >Subject: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Revival fund >To: Announcements >Pulse > >PUPPET MAKERS AND ANTIOCH GRADS DONATE TO THE FACULTY LEGAL FUND >AND THE COLLEGE REVIVAL FUND > > > > Atis and Judy Folkmanis, Antioch grads from '63 and '64 have >contributed $20,000 to the Faculty Legal Fund, and $80,000 to the >College Revival Fund. Atis and his family were living in a displaced >persons camp in Germany from 1945-1949. They were sponsored by >Antioch College and the Presbyterian Church to come to Yellow >Springs. Atis believes that Antioch "saved his life". He grew up in >Yellow Springs, met Judy at Antioch, and they moved to Berkeley where >Judy created a business making puppets. Their business is known as >Folkmanis (you can buy their very realistic animal puppets in the Glen >Helen Nature Shop). > Atis and Judy were Rebecca Rice award winners in 2005. They >have been contributing regularly to Antioch. They attended a meeting >on Sunday in Berkeley and met Anne Townsend, Kelly Kersting and Barry >(Dallas) Grennell. They had received the Alumni Board letter from >Nancy Crowe the same day, and became aware of the Revival efforts. > > THIS IS SUCH A GREAT STORY!!! > >Dennie > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From marklp2 at comcast.net Tue Aug 21 14:45:57 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:46:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] op-ed article on Antioch In-Reply-To: References: <20070821040637.793C16123D56@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <014f01c7e423$83977d00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Great article! -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Olsen Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:00 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] op-ed article on Antioch Thanks so much for sharing this. It is heartening. Pam Quoted again here: By RICHARD COUTO TIMES-DISPATCH GUEST COLUMNIST The suspended operation of a small college in a small Midwestern village hardly seems newsworthy. However, the news about Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio, has generated press coverage around the world. Why? Sadly, the coverage to date gives inadequate answers. Conservatives gloat that the liberals did themselves in. Liberals lament the caricature of progressive politics that the college had become. Higher education observers cite the drop in student enrollment and the ramshackle appearance of the campus. Alumni name and blame those responsible, including themselves, for their beloved alma mater's demise. Meanwhile, Antioch administrators offer assurances that the university, of which the college was one part, remains alive and well. Thus the question remains: Why do people care so much about Antioch's fate? The answer is not so much in the fall of Antioch College or who pushed it, but in the fact that no school delivered on the promise of the liberal arts better. Its curriculum of engagement imparted a responsibility for fearless thinking and prepared people for a lifetime of inquiry and citizenship. No other set of students, proportionately, has garnered more prestigious awards or contributed more to the intellectual, political, and artistic leadership of this country than Antioch. These students include seven McArthur "genius" awardees and three Fulbright scholars in this past academic year alone. What goes into a curriculum of engagement? Ambitious goals and high expectations: The oft-cited words of Horace Mann, the college's first president, "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity," provide the bedrock of Antioch culture. People learn to shape unanswerable questions about race, violence, gender, power, culture, and civil liberties into manageable ones; to ask why these questions aren't asked; and to challenge assumptions about social institutions and arrangements that sustain social injustice -- from slavery and women's rights in 1852 to sweatshops in 2007. Heinz Eulau, who distinguished himself at Stanford and among political scientists, confessed, "I am still amazed today by the formidable set of intellectual demands I made on these Antioch undergraduates." Learning by doing and action research: In 1920, Arthur Morgan became president and instituted the nation's first system of cooperative education. Students alternated between a semester of work and "co-ops," which send students into the field for the practical application of knowledge. We now extol this mode of "reflective practice" as a principal source of creativity and excellence. In addition, class discussions and assignments were problem-centered in a manner that we now call a scholarship of engagement. Continuums constructed from dichotomies: One did not teach or study at Antioch as much as one spent time learning with others. The teacher/student dichotomy became a continuum along with campus and the "real world," acts and values, and rigor and relevance. Interdisciplinary work: Antioch's learning community reached out in all directions. The question "Knowledge for what?" trumped disciplinary restrictions on the methods of acquiring knowledge and gave everyone permission to read broadly and combine fields such as politics and psychology. Independence, Contention, Civility, and Community: Co-op semesters took students away from campus and contributed to a go-it-alone attitude, which bonded the college into a curious and often contentious community of independent individuals committed to consensus. In excess, the stress on independence fostered a paradoxical pressure to conform to styles of individualism and thinking for oneself. Contention inevitably followed. The commitment to freedom of inquiry within the college provided a code of civility and a counterbalance to the pressures to conform. An iconoclasm that embraces irony: Members of the Antioch learning community were encouraged to articulate and examine assumptions, including the icons of their own minds, in order to think independently. They learned how to think rather than what to think. Also, perhaps because of Antioch's contentious community, people reveled in being raw-edged scholars. They overcame the fear to act in an irreverent manner in order to destabilize the taken-for-granted or to entertain a new thought. Clifford Geertz, another in Antioch's galaxy of stars, may have best captured the depth of this dutiful irreverence by citing the impatience of Antioch's best faculty with its self-absorption and dysfunctional ritualistic iconoclasm. Antioch College fostered a nebula for stars in the intellectual, artistic, and civic firmament. We now have a dark hole in the space of higher education. Hopefully Antioch University will reignite its embers and other colleges will take on a sense of responsibility for their own curricula of fearless thinking. That's why so many people care about what happens to a small college in an Ohio village midway between Springfield and Xenia, Ohio. Richard A. Couto, a Mechanicsville resident, teaches in the Antioch University PhD program on leadership and change. He was a founding faculty member of the Jepson School of Leadership Studies of the University of Richmond. ********** Jeanne Badman '80 Antioch Alumni Chat lurker since 1996 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 14:55:26 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Tue Aug 21 14:55:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if Chancellor Posit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <67d3fce1f364210278a14091b6abb8b6@www.antiochians.org> Leslie wrote: I would give Leo Drey most of the credit. I also think VonMatthissen was a key leader. Al seemed so good on paper. It seemed like the college was making improvements and then the whole thing took this nose dive in 1994, IMHO. I am disappointed that for the length of his tenure he did not accomplish more with "renewal"--and ultimately the Chancellor/ULC/"federalism" has done little for AC. Early on someone made the analogy that the capital improvements were like giving a facelift to a patient with major heart problems. I think SisterSara said his strategy was flawed--that he focused on capital improvements first without a second equal focus on faculty recruitment. Al did not seem to keep up with the large cultural changes occurring during his tenure. Leslie, Leo deserves an enormous amount of the credit, and there are amazing stories to tell, but I think you have to look closely at how Leo was brought back into the fold. Similarly, I think you would have to have some insight into the guidance and mentoring behind Malte's role as Board Chair. As for the capital improvements, it's no surprise that the College had been living off its capital since 1973, and the physical plant was so deteriorated that there were only 3 of 36 buildings that had both a viable roof and heating when Al arrived. It wasn't a matter of putting on a coat of paint and fixing the place up: Spalt (Corry) was Boarded up, South was Boarded up, the south gymn had an intricate web of sheet plastic aqueducts, Birch and North were in deplorable condition, the power plant was about to die, the steam pipes that service most of the campus had long since deteriorated, the library roof leaked and threatened the entire collection. To be viable, any President at that time would have had to attack infrastructure problems as much as possible. At the same time the College recruited 11-14 bright young faculty members, and Guskin gave attention to drastic improvements in faculty salaries and professional development support. I was recruited on the tail end of that effort, pulled out of my other career as a practitioner and non-profit ED, returning to teach in 1988 for a 50% reduction in pay. Between the years 1974 and 1986, the College had hired only a few faculty, and so in the late 80s, the composition of the faculty had one cohort of faculty near the end of their careers, and one cohort nearer to the beginning of their careers, and virtually no-one in the middle in that key institution-building role. As a result, newer faculty were prematurely drawn into governance and leadership roles, limiting their options for professional development, and some of us in between the two cohorts (Hassan Nejad, Andrzej Bloch, and myself) were drawn into administrative roles. During the late 90s the faculty actually grew in numbers from the low 50s to 60+, and those hired before the mid 70s began to retire in large numbers. That's the real story of the shape in the faculty in the late 80s and 90s. Leslie wrote: Crowfoot's treatment is a gaping hole in the story to my eye. I do not know the man but I am not sure if the issue was competence or just a different style. He had history with Al from U of MI so perhaps it was a personal issue. He offended a Union employee--which can happen at Antioch. Anger management can be an issue on campus. I have heard that Lawry got a brick thrown through the window on his first day on campus--so I do not know if rapport with students should be the only criteria for a College President. Sometimes leadership has to exercise that dreaded need for logos. Leslie, Yes, I know that Jim Crowfoot's story intrigues you. And I've said a number of time on this list that you'll just have to live with that curiosity and ambiguity. The brick was thrown through Lawry's window after he had been here quite a while, and many connect it with his expulsion of a student for cursing on the campus listserv. He also had his windows wheatpasted with "Father Knows Best" flyers at one point. Leslie wrote: By the way--who would have been responsible for granting tenure in 1994? Was that in Guskin's realm or Crowfoot's--do you know, Bob? Leslie, That would have been AdCil. A Faculty Personnel Review Committee consisting of faculty and several students reviews each file up for renewal, tenure or promotion, makes recommendations to Administrative Council, AdCil evaluates the FPRC process, deliberates, and makes a recommendation to the President. At that time, in 98% of the cases, the President carries tenure recommendations to the Board for their approval/rejection (which at the time mostly involved assessing the financial implications for the College). Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 15:00:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 15:00:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Reviv In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 15:03:30 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (msagan1035 (msagan1035@aol.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 15:03:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Save Antioch In-Reply-To: <5b6920254711261d9c7d09d1e859fe1f@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Someone said I sounded like an Antiochian but I have to confess, I'm Harvard '76. And the education there was by turns poor, excellent (in terms of the tutor system), and mediocre--overall very spotty. EXCELLENCE WITHOUT A SOUL is a good book that outlines Harvard's problems. Miriam From marklp2 at comcast.net Tue Aug 21 15:14:50 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Tue Aug 21 15:15:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] op-ed article on Antioch In-Reply-To: <014f01c7e423$83977d00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> References: <20070821040637.793C16123D56@w3.antioch.edu> <014f01c7e423$83977d00$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: <015901c7e427$8ca46530$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Interesting comment on the NY Times blog by Peter Temes (former Pres. of Antioch-New England) A good education may be the centerpiece of a good college, but it is not, by any reasonable standard, the whole package. I attended a small nationally ranked liberal arts college. It?s my personal opinion that I received an excellent college education, based on my experience of getting into a good law school and how well prepared I was for law school by my education. But, the thing is that every single other liberal arts college within 30 rankings either way on the US News Liberal Arts College top 100 list is offering a similarly good education. All of them would be generally well regarded by graduate schools and corporate headhunters. They cost similar amounts (with leeway for geography), and have not dissimilar admission standards. What sells one college over another is ?the Experience? that one college offers over another, and a fundamental part of the experience can be a good campus social life, or a good sports team, or a particular location, or a focus on certain kinds of experiential programs or any number of other factors, that extend far beyond merely a good education. ? Posted by Ben No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From dlbahr at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 15:21:20 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Tue Aug 21 15:21:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund andtheRevival fu In-Reply-To: <001101c7e414$daf2e9e0$2f01a8c0@laurenndb40xz6> Message-ID: It is wonderful story. I just went into my local, independent bookstore & coffee bar, Buffalo Books & Coffee--snatched the cutest folkmanis puppet off the display and told the owner, "Guess what I just found out?" I proceeded to relay the story, love and all. The owner said, of course, "They were Antiochians." (I even have a Minnesotan saying Antiochian!) This is a major accomplishment many Minnesotans, especially in my locale, take little interest in anything outside of state borders--especially small liberal arts colleges in OH--although they do listen when I say Horace Mann and first college to admit women and to permit female professors. They have gotten an ear full about Antioch from me recently--and had to gaze at more than one picture of Main Building ("modeled after the Smithsonian"...it is such a crazy, wonderful place "A little like Northfield and Eli combined.") I feel such deep love, it is crazy that an institution can conjure this in someone--but Antioch does have a depth. I am sure there are so many wonderful love stories out there...we have just been too busy to write them down and and share them with each other and the future ones to come. I believe that if we let these stories be told we could save the place because it is in these stories that the true Antioch lies. It is also within these stories that the treasure can be found on all levels. Irene Hardy wrote her stories down for some of us to find thanks to Louis Fillers efforts to publish her memoirs: She wrote to Arthur Morgan in June of 1921: "I entered Antioch in September, 1861, as partial freshman....I had, therefore, three years work in these subjects that I did in two. At the end of that time, owing to conditions brought about by the war [Civil War], the College classes were suspended for one year and the faculty gave all their time to the preparatory school....To shorten my story I was in and out of the College a number of times to teach until 1867, when I was ready to take my degree. Although I was a matron of North Hall and teacher in the preparatory school from 1874-1876, I did not care to take my degree, notwithstanding I had done work enough to entitle me to it: nor was I ever afterward a student there. In 1871 I came to California, and on a return visit in 1883-84 when Dr. David Long was President, he urged me to take my degree at the next commencement. I could not return to do so, but the degree was granted in 1885--eighteen years after it was mainly earned." In 1894 Irene Hardy, born to Ohio pioneer parents, joined Stanford faculty. Her memoir was a gift she left to future generations. I am grateful she bothered to write it down. If that is not inspiration for late bloomers, I don't know what would be. Perseverance. How could we close Antioch with all those stories percolating in its core curriculum--it would fill the heart of the next generation as it has been doing all along. Toni Murdock is a western gal--she might find something to inspire her in Irene Hardy's "An Ohio School Mistress." Irene went west and Toni has come East--maybe they need to cross paths a little and become acquainted. Perhaps reading Ms Hardy's description of Dr. Susanna Way Dodds, physicians refusal to accept her diploma because she could not wear bloomers would inspire Chancellor Murdock to think about what history she is messing up. Dodd had been expected to wear "conventional attire" at commencement. Perhaps Hardy's description of Dodd's debates might inspire Toni Murdock to understand Yellow Springs, OH and the legacy of Antioch College a little more fully than a rapid plan at redevelopment. How much history can any Westerner stand to absorb? Women in Higher Education need to learn the stories our Antiochian foremothers have taught us. Yellow Springs is where the whole story begins; as it did for Atis and Judy Folkmanis and all those treasured puppets. I gotta go to work. Lesley A. Pownall Bahr '83 Buffalo, MN >From: "Lauren Page" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "'Alumni Chat List'" >Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund >andtheRevival fund >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:00:56 -0400 > >This is wonderful. I've been buying Folkmanis puppets for years, and now I >feel as though I, personally, have gotten every penny back and then some. > >Lauren Hassol Page, '77 > >-----Original Message----- >From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >[mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Duffy >Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:25 AM >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and >theRevival fund > > >----- Original Message ----- > > Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:19:14 AM >Pulse >From: Dennie Eagleson >Subject: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Revival >fund >To: Announcements >Pulse > >PUPPET MAKERS AND ANTIOCH GRADS DONATE TO THE FACULTY LEGAL FUND >AND THE COLLEGE REVIVAL FUND > > > > Atis and Judy Folkmanis, Antioch grads from '63 and '64 have >contributed $20,000 to the Faculty Legal Fund, and $80,000 to the >College Revival Fund. Atis and his family were living in a displaced >persons camp in Germany from 1945-1949. They were sponsored by >Antioch College and the Presbyterian Church to come to Yellow >Springs. Atis believes that Antioch "saved his life". He grew up in >Yellow Springs, met Judy at Antioch, and they moved to Berkeley where >Judy created a business making puppets. Their business is known as >Folkmanis (you can buy their very realistic animal puppets in the Glen >Helen Nature Shop). > Atis and Judy were Rebecca Rice award winners in 2005. They >have been contributing regularly to Antioch. They attended a meeting >on Sunday in Berkeley and met Anne Townsend, Kelly Kersting and Barry >(Dallas) Grennell. They had received the Alumni Board letter from >Nancy Crowe the same day, and became aware of the Revival efforts. > > THIS IS SUCH A GREAT STORY!!! > >Dennie > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 15:32:20 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 15:32:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Reviv In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21596ba6660cc3e40a4f9f88f0444e1d@www.antiochians.org> And just a reminder for those of you with beautiful stories...if you haven't had the chance to do a youtube video, or watch them, check out http://youtube.com/groups_videos?name=antiochcollege Or if words or pictures are your medium, email your stories to narratives@antiochians.org. This puppeteer thing is wonderful and I'm asking web people to put it on the front page. :-) From matt at baya.net Tue Aug 21 15:45:59 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Tue Aug 21 15:40:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Reviv In-Reply-To: <21596ba6660cc3e40a4f9f88f0444e1d@www.antiochians.org> References: <21596ba6660cc3e40a4f9f88f0444e1d@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4B997C0B-17C0-47F1-B916-8FE8E82C0061@baya.net> ooh.. can we do youtube videos about Antioch using their puppets? ;) -Matt On Aug 21, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com) wrote: > And just a reminder for those of you with beautiful stories...if > you haven't had the chance to do a youtube video, or watch them, > check out http://youtube.com/groups_videos?name=antiochcollege > > Or if words or pictures are your medium, email your stories to > narratives@antiochians.org. > > This puppeteer thing is wonderful and I'm asking web people to put > it on the front page. :-) > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 15:49:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 15:49:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Reviv In-Reply-To: <4B997C0B-17C0-47F1-B916-8FE8E82C0061@baya.net> Message-ID: >ooh.. can we do youtube videos about Antioch using their puppets? ;) > >-Matt MUST...NOT...MAKE...FILTHY...JOKE... From sercle at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 21 16:06:27 2007 From: sercle at sbcglobal.net (Barrie Grenell) Date: Tue Aug 21 16:06:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: Alumni-chat Digest, Vol 6, Issue 45 In-Reply-To: <20070821184612.9215361272A8@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <329306.42216.qm@web81602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> OH man Marketing/Admissions folks...when we start recruiting again, let's do it in GRAPHIC NOVEL FORM! I think this is brilliant! The ideas among us are waiting to be mined, or to fall out, or jump out... Onward. Barrie Dallas Grenell '65 ___________ Barrie Grenell QBA (415) 826-2409 4340 - 25th Street San Francisco, CA 94114 sercle@sbcglobal.net From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 16:07:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 16:07:42 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3a1c1ec27bd22d29e7afff8b933c9ee5@www.antiochians.org> Skooter, I think the question is more sublte than Gerry does. A strict interpretation of their duty could be limited to fufilling the mission statement of the corporation which right now does not say to operate a residential liberal arts education with co-op and community governance etx. Right now it just says to operate an institution of higher learning in Yellow Springs and as in other places the BoT may decide upon. I am not quoting obviously. Alumni do not usually have standing to sue for breach of duty. It is easy to see why, if anyone could sue then the business of the not-for-profit would be grossly impaired. I do think there is an argument though about fiduciary duty with respect to the college while one could argue that the duty was to close the college to save the institution becasue of declining numbers of students, dollars etc. The other is that the duty was to raise more money, start a campaign and try to meet the historic mandate of the college etc. I can't find a case on point to discuss the irreperable harm done to the alumni of a closed college or the irreperable hard done to the alumni based on the U's repeated talk about the college's intellectual capital being as poor as its bank account, etc. From now one whenever one of us goes to a job interview when they get to the education part and they see Antioch they are going to say something like: "Is that the school that closed because it was too liberal? That has a direct impact on the value of our degree. Anybody find anything? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 16:14:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 16:14:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <243fcbfec1ec90425fd623abad125b58@www.antiochians.org> >Skooter in a word yes. Considering they have a duty to the university as a >whole then they have a duty to the flagship enterprise/brand building >campus. > >The vast majority of the Alumni come from that campus. Thus part of their >duty (since we give them most of their endowment and expansion capital and >7% of their operating budget) is to not piss us off and give up a 2 -5 >million a year revanune stream. > >Our goodwill is a tangible asset they are neglecting. > >simple. > >----G > > >"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about >that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the >stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the >prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We >carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." >----Durruti Duty the whole does not mean duty to each part. Even if it did, they have a positive defense: they relied on information from the professionals. Trustees can not legally be faulted for doing what an ordinary person would do in the same situation. Keep raising money. There is a point (perhaps already reached) that tips it all our way (for good or bad) and financial promises from the alumni gives more power to the AB "negotiate" eith the university. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 16:29:23 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 16:29:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <558e377ce626d069564c30c140b0bf3d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <230edbb5a5bd2ef098ec2313a86d4ea0@www.antiochians.org> I am not so much defending Deb or her honor as I am defending the principle that our exchanges should not be premised with wether or not we are doctors, lawyers or goatherers. Thats the same line of thinking the BoT uses when they are questioned. They challenge the credentials of the interlocutor rather then the ideas they present. I fell into the trap by asking someone if they were a lawyer, instead of attacking their argument. I was tired of their claims about legal process and precident and I was tired of having to keep pointing out where this person was wrong and it slipped. I agree that there have been some posts that I would have like to seen removed but understand this site's moderators do not claim the authority to do that, relying on members to self-regulate. From marklp2 at comcast.net Tue Aug 21 16:36:11 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Tue Aug 21 16:36:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <017701c7e432$e9e3b2e0$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Sistersara is right, Lyndon Johnson saw that Eisenhower's AG, Herbert Brownell was going to sponsor a civil rights bill. He convinced the Southern Dem brain trust, Richard Russell in particular, that it was vital to elect a President from the South (LBJ himself natch,)and that in order to do that the Dems needed to forestall the Repubs and introduce their own bill to get the black vote. -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Sistersara@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:15 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In a message dated 8/20/2007 12:04:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: However, I find a great deal of your well written and thought out position on the role of the CRM on the DP to be in sharp opposition to the "accepted" narrative offered by say Taylor Branch. I suppose it is likely that historians tend to assume that the central topic of their disertation is also the nexus of world events. So Caro views LBJ and the D-party and Branch views Dr King as as the central agent of change in those years. An interesting disscusion, and Rowan made a very competent argument and addition to the conversation that you chose to dismiss without even cursory review. If I am mistaken, correct me, but it seems to me that you don't have much respect for the views of those younger than you, particularly those Antiochians that are are younger. I don't distain younger people, Antiochian or not -- but I do have problems with misrepresentation. Yes, I agree that at least at this point Taylor Branch's narrative on King is the best we have available, but he was not writing a political history, he was focused on a particular leader of a moral movement that at times had to act through the political process. King was not a politician. In contrast, Caro is writing political biography, and thus he must focus on the institutions through which LBJ worked during his career. LBJ was through and through a politician. To hold power, he had to keep his party in power, and part of that was clearly recognizing when change was necessary, and directing that change to his ends. When it became clear from an analysis of election results in 1948 that the reason Truman won was because of the Black Vote in Northern Industrial States (a class of voters Gallup did not know how to poll in 1948), LBJ recognized the need to diversify Senate Leadership so as to allow these new Democratic Voters to see their interests served by Democratic Leaders. Gradually during the 50's, LBJ convinced some Southern Senators to allow the more progressive Democratic Senators something of a leadership role, and gradually that group in collaboration with some Progressive Republicans became the coalition that could deliver on legislation in the 1960's. But they were two separate entities, pursuing quite independent goals, by quite different means. King was leading a moral movement designed to radically change attitudes and behavior regarding race, and LBJ was interested in acquiring and holding power for his political agenda, and one way to accomplish that was to lead on including in the Democratic Party the vast majority of Black voters. They overlap when things such as the content of the 64 Civil Rights Bill or the 65 Voting Rights Bill required political action. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 16:43:27 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 16:43:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <0c99e981aa01a88dd7c1acdf60eff2d0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? > >Deb '83 Deb, in all honesty, it is a bit strange. But just about everything about the current situation is strange. Cheers, Skooter From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 17:51:45 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 17:51:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <0c99e981aa01a88dd7c1acdf60eff2d0@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <7532b4ede257dfa5a2053e1d2bcb2439@www.antiochians.org> >Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >Deb '83 No. I don't see why the faculty shouldn't solicit funds from anyone they want to. John Hevelin '68 From soyalsprouts at yahoo.com Tue Aug 21 18:07:28 2007 From: soyalsprouts at yahoo.com (christian stuempfig) Date: Tue Aug 21 18:07:38 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <7532b4ede257dfa5a2053e1d2bcb2439@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <390582.7629.qm@web55313.mail.re4.yahoo.com> If a parent is investing in their child's education, then they have decided antioch college to be a suitable place for their child to attend. With that notion in mind it would seem logical that said parent would have an interest in keeping that college open. the faculty legal fund isn't nescessarily the same as room and board or any of the other fees that are part of tuition, though in some ways could be considered similar. for an extra few dollars your child can eat three meals a day in the caf, for a few dollars more your child might be able to graduate from the college it began matriculation at. the money is not to grease the palms of the dean so they will over look the horrible thing that was done on halloween to the pigs accross the glen, it is rather to help faculty defend the right of the institution they love and serve to exist for many years to come. that is if i understand things correctly. of course, it could just be "aship arriving to late to save a drowning witch". christian 94-98(99?) "john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)" wrote: >Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >Deb '83 No. I don't see why the faculty shouldn't solicit funds from anyone they want to. John Hevelin '68 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 18:32:30 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 18:32:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Yes, I agree that at least at this point Taylor Branch's narrative on King is the best we have available, but he was not writing a political history, he was focused on a particular leader of a moral movement that at times had to act through the political process. King was not a politician. In contrast, Caro is writing political biography, and thus he must focus on the institutions through which LBJ worked during his career. I've read both Branch and Caro. I believe Branch was writing the history of a political movement, using King, its leader, as a focal point. King's moral movement had a political goal: equal citizenship rights for Negros (to use the terminology of the time). The Freedom Rides, the lunch counter sit-ins -- these all drove the political process by making the evil of Jim Crow/segregation visible. Branch highlights the fact that the Justice Department's "case by case" court strategy was running out of steam in the face of segregationist stonewalling. It was going to take equal voting rights to force the final change. And though the groundwork may have been laid as far back as the New Deal, civil rights workers and activists were still being lynched the summer I started Antioch (1964), when Schwerner, Goodwin, and Chaney were murdered in Mississippi. King's continued agitation, both in demonstrations and behind-the-scenes negotiations, kept the voting issue alive. Unfortunately, Caro's last (to date) volume on LBJ ends before the 1960 presidential election, so we don't really have his interpretation of the last half-decade before the Voting Rights Act. I'm an athiest, but I pray nightly that Caro will live long enough to cover the years 1960-68! John Hevelin '68 From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 18:30:27 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 21 18:41:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <390582.7629.qm@web55313.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <390582.7629.qm@web55313.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you. Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 6:07 PM wrote: > If a parent is investing in their child's education, then they have >decided antioch college to be a suitable place for their child to attend. > With that notion in mind it would seem logical that said parent would >have an interest in keeping that college open. the faculty legal fund >isn't nescessarily the same as room and board or any of the other fees >that are part of tuition, though in some ways could be considered >similar. for an extra few dollars your child can eat three meals a day >in the caf, for a few dollars more your child might be able to graduate >from the college it began matriculation at. the money is not to grease >the palms of the dean so they will over look the horrible thing that was >done on halloween to the pigs accross the glen, it is rather to help >faculty defend the right of the institution they love and serve to exist >for many years to come. > > that is if i understand things correctly. > > of course, it could just be "aship arriving to late to save a drowning >witch". > > christian > 94-98(99?) > > >"john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)" >wrote: > >>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting >donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new >student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >>Deb '83 >No. I don't see why the faculty shouldn't solicit funds from anyone they >want to. >John Hevelin '68 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > >--------------------------------- >Building a website is a piece of cake. >Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 18:31:58 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 21 18:42:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <7532b4ede257dfa5a2053e1d2bcb2439@www.antiochians.org> References: <7532b4ede257dfa5a2053e1d2bcb2439@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Thank you. Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 5:51 PM wrote: > >>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting >donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new >student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >>Deb '83 >No. I don't see why the faculty shouldn't solicit funds from anyone they >want to. > >John Hevelin '68 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 18:33:25 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 21 18:44:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why is it a bit strange? Every college in the country does it. Our son is at Wilmington College, and they do it all the time. best, Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 4:43 PM wrote: > >>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting >donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new >student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >> >>Deb '83 >Deb, in all honesty, it is a bit strange. But just about everything about >the current situation is strange. > >Cheers, >Skooter > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 18:50:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 18:50:07 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >By the way, I have been in many DFL Party fights over the years, and the ones that end up causing us to lose elections are those where stark either/or positions are demanded. I always feel a bit guilty because I was part of the Gene McCarthy Faction that after the 68 convention said, never, Gene, never make peace with Hubert. Well, that is what got us Nixon, and Cheney and Rumsfeld and all the rest of those characters even down to Karl Rove who worked during the 72 campaign for Harry Dent who was in charge of the "Southern Strategy." Yes, Hubert's liason with Richard Daley was offensive, but sometimes you look at the bigger picture, and come back around with reform rules and give Daley a little wack. After forty years, I guess I can confess: Nixon was my fault. I mean, there were extenuating circumstances. 1968 would have been the first year I was eligible to vote. You remember 1968, King's assassination, closely followed by Robert Kennedy's death. And many of us had been demonstrating against the war since 1965, and I had gone down to the Pentagon in 1967 with some other pacifists from Yellow Springs. And we were young, and Hubert had been been a mouthpiece for the war for years, and we didn't really understand his liberal background (FDR? that was before I was born), and even though everyone said how bad Nixon was ("I just don't trust that man," my mother said in 1951), we really couldn't see much difference between them. So when I moved to Portland in the spring of 1968, I didn't register to vote in Oregon, and never voted in 1968. Big, big mistake. I rather suspect we holier-than-thou radicals could have turned the tide had we held our noses and voted for Humphrey. Sorry, folks. Been a lousy forty years, hasn't it. I apologize. Won't happen again. John Hevelin '68 From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 18:50:41 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 21 19:01:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is definitely standard practice for colleges (including faculty) to ask parents of students for support -- and if the college is threatened with extinction, it doesn't make it any less so. My son is at a college right now, and we get requests for financial support all the time. The fact that Antioch is fighting for its life doesn't make it any less legitimate. Let me make this clear: the faculty are NOT asking to recover damages or to respond to their private needs; we are suing to keep the College open!! That deserves support from everyone, including parents of students. best, Scott Warren Philosophy & Politics Alumni Chat List on Monday, August 20, 2007 at 6:52 PM wrote: >Callie: > >It can't be standard practice to ask parents of students to donate funds >to support lawsuits for faculty suing the universities that employ them >(and then close colleges without notice) simply because this is not a >standard situation. I think you are answering a different question but >thanks anyway. > >Deb > >>Thanks for this thoughtful reply and your willingness to make a >donation. There is a couple in town (Yellow Springs), 2 academics, who >held a little gathering of faculty from area colleges and raised some >money to support the Faculty Legal Fund. >> >>I look forward to seeing your daughter around town. Does she babysit?:-) >> >>As to the issue of asking parents of students to give money, this is >standard practice at most colleges since the belief is that it often >instills philanthropic awareness. Antioch has never launched that sort of >campaign but has at various times asked graduating classes to make a >class gift. >> >>Callie >> >>>Hi--I didn't find it odd at all. In fact, in an early post I mentioned >I had already given--and I plan to give more. I think parents are a good >group to try and mobilize--granted we are paying tuition which is a major >expense but we also are invested in our children and the future of the >college. >>>Also, I am an academic, and I am appalled by what has happened, so I >naturally feel an affinity with the faculty. >>>In addition, donating money, including small sums, is really emphasized >in the Jewish tradition I was raised in. I think it is always fine to ask >for money, assuming it is then up to the giver.Miriam > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From warren at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 18:54:17 2007 From: warren at antioch-college.edu (Scott Warren) Date: Tue Aug 21 19:05:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: References: <,> Message-ID: The official report we got from acting president Andrzej Bloch today is 247 students. That's amazing given the current controversy! This is a testimony to the power of Antioch College!! Scott Warren Philosophy and Politics Alumni Chat List on Monday, August 20, 2007 at 6:27 PM wrote: >Fall estimates are between 179 and 201 for on campus > >others stilll wish to finish AEA and co-ops. There are some 250 >sequenced students/ Duffy > >and a few are even coming back after several years to finish up. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 19:11:24 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 19:11:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Reviv In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>ooh.. can we do youtube videos about Antioch using their puppets? ;) >> >>-Matt >MUST...NOT...MAKE...FILTHY...JOKE... About Toni's hand and Zuckers..... ? that kind of filthy puppet joke? :) From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 19:51:45 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 19:51:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <467add55649a602fc939773ba6aa1166@www.antiochians.org> >The vast majority of the Alumni come from that campus. Thus part of their duty (since we give them most of their endowment and expansion capital and 7% of their operating budget) is to not piss us off and give up a 2 -5 million a year revanune stream. > >Our goodwill is a tangible asset they are neglecting. I believe the Trustees have written off the College alumni as a factor, which I think explains their "non-negotiable" stance. I think they have calculated (possibly based on alumni contributions over the decades) that the contribution of the alumni simply isn't enough to justify the pain in the ass that running the College entails. By closing the College forever, they rid themselves of troublesome faculty and students, an irritating (but comparatively impoverished) bunch of alumni, and can cash in the existing College real estate assets for a nice bonus, possibly with the blessing of at least part of the Village of Yellow Springs. It's like the old Lily Tomlin telephone operator skit: "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." Our challenge is to make them care. John Hevelin '68 From dramamama at nyc.rr.com Tue Aug 21 19:53:56 2007 From: dramamama at nyc.rr.com (Robin Rice Lichtig) Date: Tue Aug 21 19:54:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action Message-ID: <005201c7e44e$89cddae0$9d6990a0$@rr.com> The Union is going to picket selected AUBoT homes this Saturday (including Zucker's). Is there a way to find out the locations of the homes and details so alumni in the areas can participate? - Robin '64 ************************************** "The future is here but it's unevenly distributed." -- Robert Heinlein From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 19:57:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 19:56:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Dr. Alan Guskin! Hero or villain? Definitely villain! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >So when I moved to Portland in the spring of 1968, I didn't register to vote in Oregon, and never voted in 1968. Big, big mistake. I rather suspect we holier-than-thou radicals could have turned the tide had we held our noses and voted for Humphrey. > >Sorry, folks. Been a lousy forty years, hasn't it. I apologize. Won't happen again. > >John Hevelin '68 My mother voted for John Anderson in 1980. We got Reagan. She came to realize her mistake. After that, if you wanted to eat food in my mother's house, you voted straight Democrat. Alan Benard '92 From matt at baya.net Tue Aug 21 19:56:10 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Tue Aug 21 19:59:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <005201c7e44e$89cddae0$9d6990a0$@rr.com> References: <005201c7e44e$89cddae0$9d6990a0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <831A7E3E-0FC4-4D53-8B7C-2806CBA4AF7C@baya.net> On Aug 21, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Robin Rice Lichtig wrote: > The Union is going to picket selected AUBoT homes this Saturday > (including > Zucker's). Is there a way to find out the locations of the homes > and details > so alumni in the areas can participate? This list has been posted here before but since you asked; Bruce P Bedford. - not alum Nov-Mar (Winter) - 1761 Buttonbush Circle, Palm City, FL 34990 Spring thru Thanksgiving - 300 Perry Cabin Dr., St. Michaels, MD 21663 bedfob@yahoo.com Amy Chappell. MD 1973 8111 Bayberry Court, Indianapolis, IN 46250 aschappell@lilly.com Howard A.Coleman 1975 8470 Inverness Drive NE, Seattle, WA 98115 hcoleman@geneseeinv.com David Crippens 1964 5252 W. 64th Street, Inglewood, CA 90302 dcrippens@comcast.net Leo A. Drey* 1939 *Trustee Emeritus 515 West Point Ave., St. Louis, MO 63130 Daniel Fallon, PhD 1961 135 W. 70th St. Apt 2K, New York, NY 10023-4462 df@carnegie.org Dianne Brou Fraser 1968 5920 Kenview Drive, Jackson, MS 39206-2132 dbfraser@resprofs.com Everette Freeman, PhD 1972 P. O. Box 1, Albany, GA 31702-2310 everette.freeman@asurams.edu Sherwood Guernsey II, JD 1975 (School of Law) 69 East Housatonic St., Pittsfield, MA 01201 - work guernsey@adelphia.net sherwood@sglawoffice.com Reuben T. Harris, PhD 1969 10175 Sunstar Road, Monterey, CA 93940 Hal Joseph 1954 77203 Iroquois Drive, Indian Wells, CA 92210 halmary80@aol.com Jeffrey C. Kasch 1965 2533 North Wahl Avenue, Milwaukee, WI 53211 jckasch@aol.com Lillian Pierson Lovelace* 1951; 1989 (AUSC) Trustee Emeritus 780 El Bosque Rd. , Santa Barbara, CA 93108 ljlo@west.net Niels P. Lyster 1954 1752 Glencary Crest, Indianapolis, IN 46228 nielslyster@msn.com Sharon R. Merriman 1956 502 Blue Ridge Road, Indianapolis, IN 46208 smerriman@vzphmlaw.com John G. (Jack), Merselis, Jr MD 1996 (ANE) 153 Hancock Road, Williamstown, MA 01267 msweetwood@aol.com Larry Stone, PhD 964 Metron, Inc., 11911 Freedom Drive, Ste 800, Reston, VA 20190 - wiork stone@metsci.com Paula A. Treichler, PhD 1965 808 South Lynn Street, Champaign, IL 61820 ptreich@uiuc.edu Arthur J.Zucker 1955 2012 Prescott Place, Raleigh, NC 27615 azucker@nc.rr.com From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 20:07:50 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:07:43 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Reviv In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75d009ad5d19fbdd7f0498f99ab69981@antiochians.org> or make any Spinal Tap references... :P From dramamama at nyc.rr.com Tue Aug 21 20:13:34 2007 From: dramamama at nyc.rr.com (Robin Rice Lichtig) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:13:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action Message-ID: <005c01c7e451$47b92b70$d72b8250$@rr.com> Thanks, Matt. Do you have email/phone for a Union contact person so anyone living near a trustee could ask how to join in? - Robin '64 ************************************** "The future is here but it's unevenly distributed." -- Robert Heinlein From jdavid at coldren.net Tue Aug 21 20:17:46 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:19:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <7532b4ede257dfa5a2053e1d2bcb2439@www.antiochians.org> References: <0c99e981aa01a88dd7c1acdf60eff2d0@www.antiochians.org> <7532b4ede257dfa5a2053e1d2bcb2439@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <003101c7e451$dde16a90$99a43fb0$@net> John, Don't you find it a little peculiar for liberal intellectuals to fail to notice the similarity between this issue and the Hatch Act that prohibits, among other things, political fund-raising by persons with supervisory powers? The reason is simple: it's a question of POWER. A faculty member could have power over a parent's child and a negative response to a funds appeal could be interpreted as a slight to the faculty who is in a position to retaliate. On the reverse side of the coin a positive response by the parent might be reason for the faculty person to favor the parent's child over others. The same thing is true in faculty/student sexual relationships; it's POWER or potential POWER that matters, not the purity of the request. J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com) Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 4:52 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question >Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on the Antioch Alumni Chat? >Deb '83 No. I don't see why the faculty shouldn't solicit funds from anyone they want to. John Hevelin '68 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 20:31:31 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:31:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <005c01c7e451$47b92b70$d72b8250$@rr.com> Message-ID: >Thanks, Matt. Do you have email/phone for a Union contact person so anyone >living near a trustee could ask how to join in? - Robin '64 > >************************************** >"The future is here but it's unevenly distributed." -- Robert Heinlein My union would also join the picket lines From gerrybello at hotmail.com Tue Aug 21 20:33:30 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:33:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit In-Reply-To: <467add55649a602fc939773ba6aa1166@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: I'm not talking about their strategy. I'm talking about how courting us IS a fiudicary duty. or could be argued so in court. I know they hate us. I hate them. we are all real frank about it. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Faculty lawsuit/ Alumni Assn. lawsuit >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:51:45 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc4-f13.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, >21 Aug 2007 16:51:33 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1A961287C6;Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:51:40 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3A161287A7for >; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:51:37 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1INdVh-0006gy-7Qfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:51:45 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAXP4EYMenORqnxXhmZWLrNzIdGuErftlcFC2rA6ZcD2Kgb8ypnxv0ZQYz+cftTxe7wzyxEMYtBoig== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Aug 2007 23:51:33.0533 (UTC) >FILETIME=[340F04D0:01C7E44E] > > > >The vast majority of the Alumni come from that campus. Thus part of >their duty (since we give them most of their endowment and expansion >capital and 7% of their operating budget) is to not piss us off and give >up a 2 -5 million a year revanune stream. > > > >Our goodwill is a tangible asset they are neglecting. >I believe the Trustees have written off the College alumni as a factor, >which I think explains their "non-negotiable" stance. I think they have >calculated (possibly based on alumni contributions over the decades) that >the contribution of the alumni simply isn't enough to justify the pain in >the ass that running the College entails. By closing the College forever, >they rid themselves of troublesome faculty and students, an irritating (but >comparatively impoverished) bunch of alumni, and can cash in the existing >College real estate assets for a nice bonus, possibly with the blessing of >at least part of the Village of Yellow Springs. It's like the old Lily >Tomlin telephone operator skit: "We don't care. We don't have to. We're >the phone company." > >Our challenge is to make them care. > >John Hevelin '68 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 20:40:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:40:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <831A7E3E-0FC4-4D53-8B7C-2806CBA4AF7C@baya.net> Message-ID: <03a53b067e19a178632c121240ab7236@antiochians.org> Hi Everyone. Whether you ever agree with me about any posts I've ever written here or elsewhere, please listen to this. Leo Drey is no longer a trustee. I'm sure he would never do anything to close Antioch College. Out of respect for him and his family, please do not picket at his house and please let everyone else know that he is not a current trustee. Thank you. Deb >On Aug 21, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Robin Rice Lichtig wrote: > >>The Union is going to picket selected AUBoT homes this Saturday >>(including >>Zucker's). Is there a way to find out the locations of the homes >>and details >>so alumni in the areas can participate? >This list has been posted here before but since you asked; > >Bruce P Bedford. - not alum Nov-Mar (Winter) - 1761 Buttonbush >Circle, Palm City, FL 34990 Spring thru Thanksgiving - 300 Perry >Cabin Dr., St. Michaels, MD 21663 bedfob@yahoo.com > >Amy Chappell. MD 1973 8111 Bayberry Court, Indianapolis, IN 46250 >aschappell@lilly.com > >Howard A.Coleman 1975 8470 Inverness Drive NE, Seattle, WA 98115 >hcoleman@geneseeinv.com > >David Crippens 1964 5252 W. 64th Street, Inglewood, CA 90302 >dcrippens@comcast.net > >Leo A. Drey* 1939 *Trustee Emeritus 515 West Point Ave., St. Louis, >MO 63130 > >Daniel Fallon, PhD 1961 135 W. 70th St. Apt 2K, New York, NY >10023-4462 df@carnegie.org > >Dianne Brou Fraser 1968 5920 Kenview Drive, Jackson, MS 39206-2132 >dbfraser@resprofs.com > >Everette Freeman, PhD 1972 P. O. Box 1, Albany, GA 31702-2310 >everette.freeman@asurams.edu > >Sherwood Guernsey II, JD 1975 (School of Law) 69 East Housatonic St., >Pittsfield, MA 01201 - work guernsey@adelphia.net >sherwood@sglawoffice.com > >Reuben T. Harris, PhD 1969 10175 Sunstar Road, Monterey, CA 93940 > >Hal Joseph 1954 77203 Iroquois Drive, Indian Wells, CA 92210 >halmary80@aol.com > >Jeffrey C. Kasch 1965 2533 North Wahl Avenue, Milwaukee, WI 53211 >jckasch@aol.com > >Lillian Pierson Lovelace* 1951; 1989 (AUSC) Trustee Emeritus 780 El >Bosque Rd. , Santa Barbara, CA 93108 ljlo@west.net > >Niels P. Lyster 1954 1752 Glencary Crest, Indianapolis, IN 46228 >nielslyster@msn.com > >Sharon R. Merriman 1956 502 Blue Ridge Road, Indianapolis, IN 46208 >smerriman@vzphmlaw.com > >John G. (Jack), Merselis, Jr MD 1996 (ANE) 153 Hancock Road, >Williamstown, MA 01267 msweetwood@aol.com > >Larry Stone, PhD 964 Metron, Inc., 11911 Freedom Drive, Ste 800, >Reston, VA 20190 - wiork stone@metsci.com > >Paula A. Treichler, PhD 1965 808 South Lynn Street, Champaign, IL >61820 ptreich@uiuc.edu > >Arthur J.Zucker 1955 2012 Prescott Place, Raleigh, NC 27615 >azucker@nc.rr.com From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 20:43:10 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:43:03 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <003101c7e451$dde16a90$99a43fb0$@net> Message-ID: BINGO. >John, > >Don't you find it a little peculiar for liberal intellectuals to fail to >notice the similarity between this issue and the Hatch Act that prohibits, >among other things, political fund-raising by persons with supervisory >powers? The reason is simple: it's a question of POWER. A faculty member >could have power over a parent's child and a negative response to a funds >appeal could be interpreted as a slight to the faculty who is in a position >to retaliate. On the reverse side of the coin a positive response by the >parent might be reason for the faculty person to favor the parent's child >over others. The same thing is true in faculty/student sexual relationships; >it's POWER or potential POWER that matters, not the purity of the request. > > >J. David Coldren '65 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >[mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of john_hevelin >(bwotte@rexx.com) >Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 4:52 PM >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question > > >>Does anyone find it strange that a professor would be soliciting donations >for the faculty legal fund from the mother of a soon to be new student on >the Antioch Alumni Chat? >>Deb '83 >No. I don't see why the faculty shouldn't solicit funds from anyone they >want to. > >John Hevelin '68 From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Tue Aug 21 20:42:25 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Tue Aug 21 20:53:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <03a53b067e19a178632c121240ab7236@antiochians.org> References: <03a53b067e19a178632c121240ab7236@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Alumni Chat List on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 8:40 PM -0500 wrote: >Hi Everyone. > >Whether you ever agree with me about any posts I've ever written here or >elsewhere, please listen to this. Leo Drey is no longer a trustee. I'm >sure he would never do anything to close Antioch College. Out of respect >for him and his family, please do not picket at his house and please let >everyone else know that he is not a current trustee. Thank you. > >Deb Not only that, the money from Leo Drey and Lillian Lovelace have kept us going the last few years. As for the picketing, this is news to me. I know we talked about some possible picketing when McGregor opened at the various campus'. Maybe I was asleep when that happened. Sandy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 21:04:24 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 21:04:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <03a53b067e19a178632c121240ab7236@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <9e701f1e021929d6a1735a341d280583@antiochians.org> At this point, why picket people who may share our values if not some of our perspectives? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 21:13:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (praggy (jeffreyterrell@hotmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 21:13:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From what little I know about Warren, he didn't strike me as potentially petty or vindictive. But as to the "appearance of conflict" argument, I also imagine he has as little access to any list of Legal Fund donors as you or I do. And donors could be spouses and relatives who may not share a name with the student. From dawn at mediawonk.com Tue Aug 21 21:20:32 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Tue Aug 21 21:20:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action Message-ID: Deb wrote: "Hi Everyone. Whether you ever agree with me about any posts I've ever written here or elsewhere, please listen to this. Leo Drey is no longer a trustee. I'm sure he would never do anything to close Antioch College. Out of respect for him and his family, please do not picket at his house and please let everyone else know that he is not a current trustee. Thank you." Ditto Debs' post about not picketing Leo Drey's house. Not only is he not a trustee any longer, he has been ill. Judy, can you please let the union folks know? Thanks for catching that Deb. Picketing his home would be REALLY bad form. -Dawn From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 21:49:15 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 21:49:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <003101c7e451$dde16a90$99a43fb0$@net> Message-ID: <7408a963b9ce86f1da53abc40eb2eb81@www.antiochians.org> >John, > >Don't you find it a little peculiar for liberal intellectuals to fail to notice the similarity between this issue and the Hatch Act that prohibits, among other things, political fund-raising by persons with supervisory powers? The reason is simple: it's a question of POWER. A faculty member could have power over a parent's child and a negative response to a funds appeal could be interpreted as a slight to the faculty who is in a position >to retaliate. On the reverse side of the coin a positive response by the parent might be reason for the faculty person to favor the parent's child over others. The same thing is true in faculty/student sexual relationships; >it's POWER or potential POWER that matters, not the purity of the request. > >J. David Coldren '65 (1) If there is University policy or Ohio state law proscribing such solicitation of funds, then the request was improper. I'm sure the tribunal's findings will be fair. Otherwise, tempest in a teapot, David? (2) Since the question of standing seems to be such a key concept in the faculty-University lawsuit, perhaps we might extend it here. It's not clear to me what standing you or Deb have on this issue, irrespective of the purity of your motives. If the student's mother was not concerned, and the student herself was not concerned, and in the absence of definitive law or policy, perhaps we can move on. Of course, if you're concerned that significant contributions to the Faculty Defense Fund will be extorted from incoming students and their families under the possible threat of unequal treatment, then perhaps you should start a class action case on their behalf. Or something. (3) Don't try to make me a straw man for all "liberal intellectuals." I speak for myself, and my errors (or brilliant insights) are my own. I don't fit into any of your convenient ideological pigeonholes -- never have, never will. John Hevelin '68 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 21:49:57 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 21:49:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <9e701f1e021929d6a1735a341d280583@antiochians.org> Message-ID: I don't like when anti-abortion protesters picket abortion doctor's houses, so I'm not sure I approve of this choice. I don't think it's very productive. BESIDES, won't the trustees all be in Cincinatti so we will just scare their families and neighbors? Robin '91 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 22:08:00 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 22:07:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <7408a963b9ce86f1da53abc40eb2eb81@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4daada299c2504f7727967df29ea7bac@antiochians.org> John: Though David and I are not in collusion on this thread and you responded to his post, I'll add that I do imagine there must be a University policy prohibiting the use of their electronic communication to solicit funds for the benefit of lawsuits against them or their interests. Also, as I pointed out in another post of mine completely unrelated to this issue, the litmus test for ethical behavior has nothing to do with whether or not someone complains. Deb '83 >>John, >> >>Don't you find it a little peculiar for liberal intellectuals to fail to notice the similarity between this issue and the Hatch Act that prohibits, among other things, political fund-raising by persons with supervisory powers? The reason is simple: it's a question of POWER. A faculty member could have power over a parent's child and a negative response to a funds appeal could be interpreted as a slight to the faculty who is in a position >>to retaliate. On the reverse side of the coin a positive response by the parent might be reason for the faculty person to favor the parent's child over others. The same thing is true in faculty/student sexual relationships; >>it's POWER or potential POWER that matters, not the purity of the request. >> >>J. David Coldren '65 >(1) If there is University policy or Ohio state law proscribing such solicitation of funds, then the request was improper. I'm sure the tribunal's findings will be fair. Otherwise, tempest in a teapot, David? > >(2) Since the question of standing seems to be such a key concept in the faculty-University lawsuit, perhaps we might extend it here. It's not clear to me what standing you or Deb have on this issue, irrespective of the purity of your motives. If the student's mother was not concerned, and the student herself was not concerned, and in the absence of definitive law or policy, perhaps we can move on. Of course, if you're concerned that significant contributions to the Faculty Defense Fund will be extorted from incoming students and their families under the possible threat of unequal treatment, then perhaps you should start a class action case on their behalf. Or something. > >(3) Don't try to make me a straw man for all "liberal intellectuals." I speak for myself, and my errors (or brilliant insights) are my own. I don't fit into any of your convenient ideological pigeonholes -- never have, never will. > >John Hevelin '68 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 22:29:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Tue Aug 21 22:29:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <03a53b067e19a178632c121240ab7236@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <5e8825ab22e55a3ece0fec01af2acafe@www.antiochians.org> Deb wrote: Whether you ever agree with me about any posts I've ever written here or elsewhere, please listen to this. Leo Drey is no longer a trustee. I'm sure he would never do anything to close Antioch College. Out of respect for him and his family, please do not picket at his house and please let everyone else know that he is not a current trustee. Thank you. Deb, You're absolutely right on target, and I would add Lillian Lovelace to that category. Both are no longer on the Board, both served admirably as Trustees, both have stood with the College when others have not, and it seems to me that neither would harm the College or want to be associated in any way with the closing of the College. I add my voice to urging that Leo and Lillian be removed from the picket list. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 22:46:52 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (rascal (cortez3100@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 22:46:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <4daada299c2504f7727967df29ea7bac@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4969132d6c862b1c55f7d7279b6c943d@antiochians.org> Deb, a little off topic, but do you have any opinion regarding Kunichika Nakano, an apparent shareholder at Greenberg Traurig? A colleague is looking for someone she can refer a consultation to regarding the acquisition of a Japanese multinational. http://gtlaw.com/people/biography.aspx?id=1441 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 22:57:52 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 22:57:45 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <4daada299c2504f7727967df29ea7bac@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >John: > >Though David and I are not in collusion on this thread and you responded to his post, I'll add that I do imagine there must be a University policy prohibiting the use of their electronic communication to solicit funds for the benefit of lawsuits against them or their interests. If you're referring to this board on antiochians.org, that isn't controlled by the University. The chat list is hosted on the University server, but for instance, I'm posting right now through the forum on antiochians.org. Or are you referring to an Antioch email address? Easily rectified, gmail accounts are free. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 23:03:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 23:03:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <4969132d6c862b1c55f7d7279b6c943d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <2857b541f1f0a4850805584c8110056d@antiochians.org> As a matter of fact, Rascal, Kunichika Nakano is my boss. Who are you and why would you ask me this question in the context of this forum? >Deb, a little off topic, but do you have any opinion regarding Kunichika Nakano, an apparent shareholder at Greenberg Traurig? A colleague is looking for someone she can refer a consultation to regarding the acquisition of a Japanese multinational. http://gtlaw.com/people/biography.aspx?id=1441 From theodora at imbris.com Tue Aug 21 23:07:21 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Tue Aug 21 23:03:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? Message-ID: John Hevelin said: I believe the Trustees have written off the College alumni as a factor, which I think explains their "non-negotiable" stance. I think they have calculated (possibly based on alumni contributions over the decades) that the contribution of the alumni simply isn't enough to justify the pain in the ass that running the College entails. By closing the College forever, they rid themselves of troublesome faculty and students, an irritating (but comparatively impoverished) bunch of alumni, and can cash in the existing College real estate assets for a nice bonus, possibly with the blessing of at least part of the Village of Yellow Springs. It's like the old Lily Tomlin telephone operator skit: "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." Our challenge is to make them care. Seems to me that: Public television probably keeps getting money because they are repeatedly in our face, reminding us of our responsibility and what will happen if they don?t get it. Environmental organizations get our money because they are constantly in our face, reminding us of our responsibility and what will happen if they don?t get it. I get a call from Antioch every two years or so, asking me for $50. I don?t blame them, entirely. But I don?t think I?ve ever gotten any letter spelling out what was happening and asking us to step up to our responsibility, and letting me know what will happen if we don?t contribute. I?m sure the wealthy that we go to every time are sick of bailing us out. We need to contact EVERYONE and point out that we don?t need a one-time contribution. We need a monthly commitment, from everyone who can possibly contribute. And we need it forever. We need a consistent and dependable source of income to keep infusing the endowment and making new programs possible. There is simply no reason why Antioch can?t become financially viable, with a decent money raising organization and decent financial management. There are 17,000 of us, for gosh sakes. Many organizations, when they?re raising money, have a graph that they provide continuously, indicating what the goal is, and changing it regularly to show how close they are to goal. With the internet now, there is no reason why we can?t provide that for alumni. There is no reason why we can?t devote several pages on what projects need funding, how much money they need, and where we are in the collection process. Mailings will need to be provided, too, to aim alumni toward regularly checking out the website. It?s easy to keep track of how many are actually visiting. Me? I have an ancient computer and dialup, so I don?t go around browsing without good reason. Give people like me a reason. I think we also need to ask all Alumni, periodically, what they would like to see happening at Antioch. One idea I had was to connect up students with Alumni, so that Alumni are hearing from current students in some way, and vice versa. One student could write to 10 alumni once a quarter, or something. Why not? Make it personal in this increasingly impersonal world. With computers, it?s easy to write one letter and then personalize it for each recipient. Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Tue Aug 21 23:04:54 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Tue Aug 21 23:04:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Christian: It is my understanding that the Antioch Alumni Chat is property of the University and is bridged to Antiochians.org. Perhaps I'm incorrect? Deb >>John: >> >>Though David and I are not in collusion on this thread and you responded to his post, I'll add that I do imagine there must be a University policy prohibiting the use of their electronic communication to solicit funds for the benefit of lawsuits against them or their interests. >If you're referring to this board on antiochians.org, that isn't controlled by the University. The chat list is hosted on the University server, but for instance, I'm posting right now through the forum on antiochians.org. > >Or are you referring to an Antioch email address? Easily rectified, gmail accounts are free. From dlbahr at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 00:03:47 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Wed Aug 22 00:04:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <2857b541f1f0a4850805584c8110056d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Rascal--why are you doing this? >From: "hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:03:06 -0500 > >As a matter of fact, Rascal, Kunichika Nakano is my boss. Who are you and >why would you ask me this question in the context of this forum? > > >Deb, a little off topic, but do you have any opinion regarding Kunichika >Nakano, an apparent shareholder at Greenberg Traurig? A colleague is >looking for someone she can refer a consultation to regarding the >acquisition of a Japanese multinational. >http://gtlaw.com/people/biography.aspx?id=1441 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us From theodora at imbris.com Wed Aug 22 01:21:02 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Wed Aug 22 01:17:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] picketing the Board In-Reply-To: <20070822010419.41EEF6128ADC@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: Not everyone on the Board of Trustees voted for the closing. Not everyone on the list provided here was even present. Let's don't alienate the friends we have on the Board. Might be wise to know their positions. Be judicious. And, of course, civil. From dlbahr at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 01:27:29 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Wed Aug 22 01:27:43 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if ChancellorPosit In-Reply-To: <67d3fce1f364210278a14091b6abb8b6@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Reading this I keep seeing the animated words in the old Batman show. Surely not rational but it does feel like a strange duel for "the real story." You know us pedestrians and rubber neckers always spouting off. I am so glad that Antioch College has had such heroic figures as Al Guskin and Bob Devine to have kept it going for another 20-23 years. Us Sidewalk Supervisors would have never saved any falling apart power plant or boarded up buildings. Thank God for heroes and mentors. Where would Robin have been without Batman? Anyone who lived on campus--myself included--knew how crappy the infrastructure was at Antioch College for decades. So I certainly applaud all the efforts that were made to improve the campus infrastructure. Which Father is it Who Knows Best? LeslEY A. Pownall Bahr '83 aka as Mrs. Bahr '83 >From: "bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Pres. is CEO of University if >ChancellorPosit >Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:55:26 -0500 > >Leslie wrote: > > I would give Leo Drey most of the credit. I also think VonMatthissen was >a >key leader. Al seemed so good on paper. It seemed like the college was >making improvements and then the whole thing took this nose dive in 1994, >IMHO. I am disappointed that for the length of his tenure he did not >accomplish more with "renewal"--and ultimately the >Chancellor/ULC/"federalism" has done little for AC. Early on someone made >the analogy that the capital improvements were like giving a facelift to a >patient with major heart problems. I think SisterSara said his strategy >was >flawed--that he focused on capital improvements first without a second >equal >focus on faculty recruitment. Al did not seem to keep up with the large >cultural changes occurring during his tenure. > > >Leslie, > >Leo deserves an enormous amount of the credit, and there are amazing >stories to tell, but I think you have to look closely at how Leo was >brought back into the fold. Similarly, I think you would have to have some >insight into the guidance and mentoring behind Malte's role as Board Chair. > As for the capital improvements, it's no surprise that the College had >been living off its capital since 1973, and the physical plant was so >deteriorated that there were only 3 of 36 buildings that had both a viable >roof and heating when Al arrived. It wasn't a matter of putting on a coat >of paint and fixing the place up: Spalt (Corry) was Boarded up, South was >Boarded up, the south gymn had an intricate web of sheet plastic aqueducts, >Birch and North were in deplorable condition, the power plant was about to >die, the steam pipes that service most of the campus had long since >deteriorated, the library roof leaked and threatened the entire collection. > To be viable, any President at that ti > me >would have had to attack infrastructure problems as much as possible. > >At the same time the College recruited 11-14 bright young faculty members, >and Guskin gave attention to drastic improvements in faculty salaries and >professional development support. I was recruited on the tail end of that >effort, pulled out of my other career as a practitioner and non-profit ED, >returning to teach in 1988 for a 50% reduction in pay. Between the years >1974 and 1986, the College had hired only a few faculty, and so in the late >80s, the composition of the faculty had one cohort of faculty near the end >of their careers, and one cohort nearer to the beginning of their careers, >and virtually no-one in the middle in that key institution-building role. >As a result, newer faculty were prematurely drawn into governance and >leadership roles, limiting their options for professional development, and >some of us in between the two cohorts (Hassan Nejad, Andrzej Bloch, and >myself) were drawn into administrative roles. During the late 90s the >faculty actually grew in num > bers >from the low 50s to 60+, and those hired before the mid 70s began to retire >in large numbers. That's the real story of the shape in the faculty in the >late 80s and 90s. > > >Leslie wrote: > >Crowfoot's treatment is a gaping hole in the story to my eye. I do not >know >the man but I am not sure if the issue was competence or just a different >style. He had history with Al from U of MI so perhaps it was a personal >issue. He offended a Union employee--which can happen at Antioch. Anger >management can be an issue on campus. I have heard that Lawry got a brick >thrown through the window on his first day on campus--so I do not know if >rapport with students should be the only criteria for a College President. >Sometimes leadership has to exercise that dreaded need for logos. > >Leslie, > >Yes, I know that Jim Crowfoot's story intrigues you. And I've said a >number of time on this list that you'll just have to live with that >curiosity and ambiguity. The brick was thrown through Lawry's window after >he had been here quite a while, and many connect it with his expulsion of a >student for cursing on the campus listserv. He also had his windows >wheatpasted with "Father Knows Best" flyers at one point. > > >Leslie wrote: > >By the way--who would have been responsible for granting tenure in 1994? >Was that in Guskin's realm or Crowfoot's--do you know, Bob? > >Leslie, > >That would have been AdCil. A Faculty Personnel Review Committee >consisting of faculty and several students reviews each file up for >renewal, tenure or promotion, makes recommendations to Administrative >Council, AdCil evaluates the FPRC process, deliberates, and makes a >recommendation to the President. At that time, in 98% of the cases, the >President carries tenure recommendations to the Board for their >approval/rejection (which at the time mostly involved assessing the >financial implications for the College). > >Bob > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Tease your brain--play Clink! Win cool prizes! http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 01:35:39 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (scribstress (scribstress@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 01:35:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <558e377ce626d069564c30c140b0bf3d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <4ca88389ce5e1baa8626ef8ab2b0a383@antiochians.org> And to get to your point, Dawn, who says I'm "anonymous"? There are folks on here (http://antiochians.org), primarily friends, who know who I am and when I attended Antioch. More importantly if you don't know who I am, and you think this besets any comment I make, then take whatever I say with a grain of salt. Or don't. Kick and scream every time I post something. I can live with either. There are dozens of folks on antiochians.org that I don't know the identity of, I just don't demand they post their their unmarried, preoperative, non-nick names while at Antioch, and the year they walked the mound. (It isn't apparent from everyone's login name who they claim to be, and most people, yourself included, do not include their name and year of graduation in signing off on every single post.) Further, if you think I have taken a single "potshot" at Deb, oh well. I haven't. Deb has opened the door to criticism. Wow weasel I guess you told me. Dawn '83 From soyalsprouts at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 02:58:02 2007 From: soyalsprouts at yahoo.com (christian stuempfig) Date: Wed Aug 22 02:58:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <762405.62647.qm@web55312.mail.re4.yahoo.com> i didnt really read the entire post though i had this thought as a poor and unemployed (seemingly unemployable) though honest and hardworking alumni, when work avails itself, i dont think i could make a contribution on a monthly basis. I got pointed out by the rector at the church i attend for not having pledged a sufficient amount of money for my seat in the annual meeting. i havent gotten this work thing down. I dunno it makes me feel pretty dumb and seeing all these kids my age and younger with cars and apartments... if i wasn't sheltered i would literally be on the street and it is just my luck that I'm too proud to beg, cant even get up at announcement time on sunday and say "anybody know of a job i might have?" i was tithing for a while out of any money i made some weeks a liteteral tithe would be 35 cents. and the manual labour jobs have stopped coming, not to mention my hands are too messed up to hold a hammer or saw (they are kinda broken at the moment). is antioch to be an ex spouse we pay alimony to? or is it to be "OUR ALMA MATER TRUE"? if it really is our alma mater and our dumb luck that we dont have money dripping from our ears or jobs that make it so..... what can we do? I mean i love the place. i was frustrated and didnt manage to really fulfil my coop department reqs (i thought something fun, everything was for people with previous experience or women) I'm not complaining i repeat I'M NOT COMPLAINING (i waxed sentimental about the old place and some one told me to quit whining) (i mean what ever happened to a community of respect) i'm sorry about this bold type thing i cant figure this computer out it seems to be stuck and i have lost my train of thought be cause of it there is something in the honest question strand that i was thinking i should reply to peace christian 94-98(99?) Pam Olsen wrote: John Hevelin said: I believe the Trustees have written off the College alumni as a factor, which I think explains their "non-negotiable" stance. I think they have calculated (possibly based on alumni contributions over the decades) that the contribution of the alumni simply isn't enough to justify the pain in the ass that running the College entails. By closing the College forever, they rid themselves of troublesome faculty and students, an irritating (but comparatively impoverished) bunch of alumni, and can cash in the existing College real estate assets for a nice bonus, possibly with the blessing of at least part of the Village of Yellow Springs. It's like the old Lily Tomlin telephone operator skit: "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." Our challenge is to make them care. Seems to me that: Public television probably keeps getting money because they are repeatedly in our face, reminding us of our responsibility and what will happen if they don?t get it. Environmental organizations get our money because they are constantly in our face, reminding us of our responsibility and what will happen if they don?t get it. I get a call from Antioch every two years or so, asking me for $50. I don?t blame them, entirely. But I don?t think I?ve ever gotten any letter spelling out what was happening and asking us to step up to our responsibility, and letting me know what will happen if we don?t contribute. I?m sure the wealthy that we go to every time are sick of bailing us out. We need to contact EVERYONE and point out that we don?t need a one-time contribution. We need a monthly commitment, from everyone who can possibly contribute. And we need it forever. We need a consistent and dependable source of income to keep infusing the endowment and making new programs possible. There is simply no reason why Antioch can?t become financially viable, with a decent money raising organization and decent financial management. There are 17,000 of us, for gosh sakes. Many organizations, when they?re raising money, have a graph that they provide continuously, indicating what the goal is, and changing it regularly to show how close they are to goal. With the internet now, there is no reason why we can?t provide that for alumni. There is no reason why we can?t devote several pages on what projects need funding, how much money they need, and where we are in the collection process. Mailings will need to be provided, too, to aim alumni toward regularly checking out the website. It?s easy to keep track of how many are actually visiting. Me? I have an ancient computer and dialup, so I don?t go around browsing without good reason. Give people like me a reason. I think we also need to ask all Alumni, periodically, what they would like to see happening at Antioch. One idea I had was to connect up students with Alumni, so that Alumni are hearing from current students in some way, and vice versa. One student could write to 10 alumni once a quarter, or something. Why not? Make it personal in this increasingly impersonal world. With computers, it?s easy to write one letter and then personalize it for each recipient. Pam _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. From soyalsprouts at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 03:19:44 2007 From: soyalsprouts at yahoo.com (christian stuempfig) Date: Wed Aug 22 03:19:57 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <4daada299c2504f7727967df29ea7bac@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <605351.56830.qm@web55303.mail.re4.yahoo.com> this is what i had to say about university policy ( and it strikes me that we are rolling in the problem that often happened at meeting where theres a shoe in the gears of the process thrown in by one of the people who is part of the process)(i dont know internal sabotage maybe?) anyway if this is an antiochian post then we are all doing our best at "community meeting" we should remember how to be civil just because we arent in (was that macgregor?) doesnt mean we can act like asses to eachother, and chances are we arent, we got the moon and the season and all kinds of things to take into account when we read this stuff, i for one have found that i have often been misread in email format. go figure we are all so used to hearing a voice and seeing a face that we forget the little self that dwells in the brain and just wants to make sense to someone. but i digress if this is an antioch college {alumni chat} and we are using the college computer to talk about things that the "university " might not want us to talk about on "their" computer, oh drat, it looks like we are making the best of the communications (think archaic now) afforded to us. we might be reaching tons of antiochians who dont even speak up. that kid you noticed on campus though.... never really knew the name of (how'd that happen) is reading what you type. it isnt creepy, it is antioch and if i remember correctly we did what we in our minds thought best and we loved every minute of it, even when we couldnt figure out why. if anything our teachers and our peers and our surroundings told us we were to think for our selves. the people who needed to say things did, whether it was coming out or the fact that they were racist or that they knew what time it was. antioch was just like that, go one antiochians, howl, remember what fun it was but for gods sake remember that this is a voluntary participation thread. you can put it all in the trash, block it as spam, you dont have to read it and if you do dont get angry or wonder if we are dong something "they" might not want us to do and i thought we had all evolved past the POWER thing i mean really "dont sell drugs to or have sex with them or their parents" if prospectives or enrolled or alumni or any one else wants totry to keep the doors open let them, let the beggars wander the streets chanting "spare some change to help antioch god please help", what does it matter to any one if someone says "i beleive in antioch"? rock on! right? i beleive in antioch too. and sometimes the palce wanted to make me scream that was why we loved it i thought um, yeah. christian 94-98(99?) "hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)" wrote: John: Though David and I are not in collusion on this thread and you responded to his post, I'll add that I do imagine there must be a University policy prohibiting the use of their electronic communication to solicit funds for the benefit of lawsuits against them or their interests. Also, as I pointed out in another post of mine completely unrelated to this issue, the litmus test for ethical behavior has nothing to do with whether or not someone complains. Deb '83 >>John, >> >>Don't you find it a little peculiar for liberal intellectuals to fail to notice the similarity between this issue and the Hatch Act that prohibits, among other things, political fund-raising by persons with supervisory powers? The reason is simple: it's a question of POWER. A faculty member could have power over a parent's child and a negative response to a funds appeal could be interpreted as a slight to the faculty who is in a position >>to retaliate. On the reverse side of the coin a positive response by the parent might be reason for the faculty person to favor the parent's child over others. The same thing is true in faculty/student sexual relationships; >>it's POWER or potential POWER that matters, not the purity of the request. >> >>J. David Coldren '65 >(1) If there is University policy or Ohio state law proscribing such solicitation of funds, then the request was improper. I'm sure the tribunal's findings will be fair. Otherwise, tempest in a teapot, David? > >(2) Since the question of standing seems to be such a key concept in the faculty-University lawsuit, perhaps we might extend it here. It's not clear to me what standing you or Deb have on this issue, irrespective of the purity of your motives. If the student's mother was not concerned, and the student herself was not concerned, and in the absence of definitive law or policy, perhaps we can move on. Of course, if you're concerned that significant contributions to the Faculty Defense Fund will be extorted from incoming students and their families under the possible threat of unequal treatment, then perhaps you should start a class action case on their behalf. Or something. > >(3) Don't try to make me a straw man for all "liberal intellectuals." I speak for myself, and my errors (or brilliant insights) are my own. I don't fit into any of your convenient ideological pigeonholes -- never have, never will. > >John Hevelin '68 _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. From dawn at mediawonk.com Wed Aug 22 03:27:53 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Wed Aug 22 03:28:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action Message-ID: Robin wrote... I don't like when anti-abortion protesters picket abortion doctor's houses, so I'm not sure I approve of this choice. I don't think it's very productive. BESIDES, won't the trustees all be in Cincinatti so we will just scare their families and neighbors? To be Clear, No one from the alumni group is planning to picket. Its the college union that plans to do that. Someone posted the info to the chat list so folks could support the union if they wanted. I for one think it's counter productive for any of us to be involved. The union on the other hand--has A different agenda. Dawn '83 From marklp2 at comcast.net Wed Aug 22 04:36:54 2007 From: marklp2 at comcast.net (Mark Pomerantz) Date: Wed Aug 22 04:37:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: References: <, > Message-ID: <003f01c7e497$98caa340$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Where is Steve Lawry? -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Warren Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 3:54 PM To: Alumni Chat List Cc: Alumni Chat List; Alumni Chat List Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. The official report we got from acting president Andrzej Bloch today is 247 students. That's amazing given the current controversy! This is a testimony to the power of Antioch College!! Scott Warren Philosophy and Politics No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/959 - Release Date: 8/17/2007 5:43 PM From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 22 05:39:55 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Wed Aug 22 05:50:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dawn, As I said earlier, I was at the union meeting (chief steward - staff) and we DID NOT vote on picketing the BOTs homes this weekend. It may have been discussed as a possible action at a later time. Most of us will be in Cincinnati. Something was mentioned about making sure that we had a large presence there. I will talk to the regional president today and see what he has to say. If protest action is planned, I will definitely ask that Leo Drey and Lillian Lovelace be let off their list. Sandy Alumni Chat List on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 at 3:27 AM -0500 wrote: > > >Robin wrote... > >I don't like when anti-abortion protesters picket abortion doctor's >houses, >so I'm not sure I approve of this choice. I don't think it's very >productive. BESIDES, won't the trustees all be in Cincinatti so we will >just >scare their families and neighbors? > > >To be Clear, > >No one from the alumni group is planning to picket. Its the college union >that plans to do that. Someone posted the info to the chat list so folks >could support the union if they wanted. I for one think it's counter >productive for any of us to be involved. The union on the other hand--has >A different agenda. > >Dawn '83 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 22 05:42:20 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Wed Aug 22 05:53:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] mother of incoming freshman. In-Reply-To: <003f01c7e497$98caa340$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> References: <, > <, > <,> <003f01c7e497$98caa340$0201a8c0@home84c77b9b4f> Message-ID: Alumni Chat List on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 at 4:36 AM -0500 wrote: >Where is Steve Lawry? > >- This was my question. I was under the impression that Andrzej wouldn't become acting president until January 1, 2008. Sandy From dramamama at nyc.rr.com Wed Aug 22 07:59:11 2007 From: dramamama at nyc.rr.com (Robin Rice Lichtig) Date: Wed Aug 22 07:59:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action Message-ID: <001201c7e4b3$da8f6ce0$8fae46a0$@rr.com> Thanks all for straightening out the facts. I'll spread the factual word. - Robin '64 (Shame on me - I didn't read the list sent yesterday. Of course Leo Drey isn't a trustee anymore - and he's one of the biggest supporters we've ever had!) From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 08:41:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 08:41:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <831A7E3E-0FC4-4D53-8B7C-2806CBA4AF7C@baya.net> Message-ID: As a point of clarification of any future communications, this list of Trustees is not complete unless a couple of trustees (other than Alexander and Nichols) have resigned since June. I don't see Ken Friedman '83 in Seattle or Janet M. Morgan (parent of a college student) who i think lives in NYC. The complete list can be found on the Antioch University web site. I agree with all who have said not to interfere with either Leo or Lillian, both are emeritus trustees, but I would also say that there are a couple of remaining trustees who voted NOT to close the college and would be puzzled if they were picketed. Callie >On Aug 21, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Robin Rice Lichtig wrote: > >>The Union is going to picket selected AUBoT homes this Saturday >>(including >>Zucker's). Is there a way to find out the locations of the homes >>and details >>so alumni in the areas can participate? >This list has been posted here before but since you asked; > >Bruce P Bedford. - not alum Nov-Mar (Winter) - 1761 Buttonbush >Circle, Palm City, FL 34990 Spring thru Thanksgiving - 300 Perry >Cabin Dr., St. Michaels, MD 21663 bedfob@yahoo.com > >Amy Chappell. MD 1973 8111 Bayberry Court, Indianapolis, IN 46250 >aschappell@lilly.com > >Howard A.Coleman 1975 8470 Inverness Drive NE, Seattle, WA 98115 >hcoleman@geneseeinv.com > >David Crippens 1964 5252 W. 64th Street, Inglewood, CA 90302 >dcrippens@comcast.net > >Leo A. Drey* 1939 *Trustee Emeritus 515 West Point Ave., St. Louis, >MO 63130 > >Daniel Fallon, PhD 1961 135 W. 70th St. Apt 2K, New York, NY >10023-4462 df@carnegie.org > >Dianne Brou Fraser 1968 5920 Kenview Drive, Jackson, MS 39206-2132 >dbfraser@resprofs.com > >Everette Freeman, PhD 1972 P. O. Box 1, Albany, GA 31702-2310 >everette.freeman@asurams.edu > >Sherwood Guernsey II, JD 1975 (School of Law) 69 East Housatonic St., >Pittsfield, MA 01201 - work guernsey@adelphia.net >sherwood@sglawoffice.com > >Reuben T. Harris, PhD 1969 10175 Sunstar Road, Monterey, CA 93940 > >Hal Joseph 1954 77203 Iroquois Drive, Indian Wells, CA 92210 >halmary80@aol.com > >Jeffrey C. Kasch 1965 2533 North Wahl Avenue, Milwaukee, WI 53211 >jckasch@aol.com > >Lillian Pierson Lovelace* 1951; 1989 (AUSC) Trustee Emeritus 780 El >Bosque Rd. , Santa Barbara, CA 93108 ljlo@west.net > >Niels P. Lyster 1954 1752 Glencary Crest, Indianapolis, IN 46228 >nielslyster@msn.com > >Sharon R. Merriman 1956 502 Blue Ridge Road, Indianapolis, IN 46208 >smerriman@vzphmlaw.com > >John G. (Jack), Merselis, Jr MD 1996 (ANE) 153 Hancock Road, >Williamstown, MA 01267 msweetwood@aol.com > >Larry Stone, PhD 964 Metron, Inc., 11911 Freedom Drive, Ste 800, >Reston, VA 20190 - wiork stone@metsci.com > >Paula A. Treichler, PhD 1965 808 South Lynn Street, Champaign, IL >61820 ptreich@uiuc.edu > >Arthur J.Zucker 1955 2012 Prescott Place, Raleigh, NC 27615 >azucker@nc.rr.com From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 09:38:45 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 09:38:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action Message-ID: <907492a4bb17bda110654b2152debf90@www.antiochians.org> >As a point of clarification of any future communications, this list of Trustees is not complete unless a couple of trustees (other than Alexander and Nichols) have resigned since June. I don't see Ken Friedman '83 in Seattle or Janet M. Morgan (parent of a college student) who i think lives in NYC. The complete list can be found on the Antioch University web site. > >I agree with all who have said not to interfere with either Leo or Lillian, both are emeritus trustees, but I would also say that there are a couple of remaining trustees who voted NOT to close the college and would be puzzled if they were picketed. > >Callie Therein lies a problem Callie. Which ones? Who voted which way is confidential. I could of course /speculate/ and *I* would probably be right, but then somebody might think that I was in possession of confidential information or that * I know things* Since that cant happen... what to do what to do? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 10:11:40 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 10:11:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action Message-ID: <040ff0df171aa62e728316edcdb7a031@antiochians.org> Well Callie, how is it that you know how anyone voted? And what do you know about who voted? From matt at baya.net Wed Aug 22 10:33:40 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Wed Aug 22 10:28:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <040ff0df171aa62e728316edcdb7a031@antiochians.org> References: <040ff0df171aa62e728316edcdb7a031@antiochians.org> Message-ID: I believe it's public knowledge that there were 4 votes against closing the college in June (out of 22 votes cast). I don't know who those 4 are though conversations with Board members who came to reunion made it pretty clear where some people stood so there's an 'educated guess' list of who probably voted against closure. I've never heard of anything definitive on this though, I doubt we'll ever 'really' know unless theAntiochPapers.org spies get ahold of more goodies ;) -Matt From w420 at earthlink.net Wed Aug 22 10:31:07 2007 From: w420 at earthlink.net (Don Wallace) Date: Wed Aug 22 10:30:25 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <866a99e694140fa183c957644a2d9b51@antiochians.org> References: <866a99e694140fa183c957644a2d9b51@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <001701c7e4c9$141ea2e0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> Have you folks looked at the financial pages on the Antioch Leaked Papers website. I am not a financial person and do not pretend to have expertise in matters relating to budgets but those papers appear to highlight many of the concerns you are expressing nicely. Here is some of what I observe from my review of those pages. 1. Much of the loss for which Antioch University seeks to put Antioch College down is "loss" of discounted tuition. It is projected to be over $4,000,000 dollars in the year Antioch University chooses to close Antioch College, Fiscal Year 2008-2009. This "loss" is not so much a loss to Antioch as a "loss" of revenue to Antioch University. May we call this a paper loss? 2. The other large "loss" was a "subsidy from overhead" of $740,000. I take that to be University overhead. Likely, this item includes the salaries of the Antioch University Chancellor, some of the staff engaged in putting Antioch College down and their offices--many on the Antioch College campus in the Fels and Kettering buildings. Are paper losses being used by Antioch University to justify closing Antioch College? 3. It is apparent that Antioch University is not doing so well financially. As a whole, it even appears to be tailing off slightly in attendance over the past five years. This tailing off does not include the loss of enrollment at Antioch College. 4. In each of the last two operating years before Antioch College is closed, the budgets project that $5,000,000 is released from the restrictions of the Drey fund, clearly a restricted fund listed under Antioch College. Could it be that paper "losses" were generated to justify withdrawing $5,000,000 a year for each of two years from Antioch College restricted funds? If the $10,000,000 is covering paper "losses," where did the $10,000,000 in funds really go? To Antioch University coffers for distribution to other elements of the University? 5. Antioch's endowment was over $30,000,000 as of March, 2007. Were the Drey funds intended to be another $10,000,000 added to the endowment? 6. As of March, 2007, the value of the Antioch College endowment is listed as just over $30,000,000. Antioch College's endowment of over $30,000,000 was well over 90% of Antioch University's endowment of just over $32,000,000. 7. Endowment yields typically run as high as 5% and may run as high as 10%. The financials make it appear the Antioch College endowment fund yields something in this range. Think of the impact of an annual yield of 5-10% yield from an established Antioch College endowment of just over $30,000,000. That would be $1,500,000 to $3,000,000 annually. Without the paper "losses" and the "subsidy from overhead" charges, Antioch College would be operating reasonably close to a break even basis. Rather than $1,500,000 to $3,000,000, Antioch College is credited with only $150,000 from endowment income. Is this the basis for the $5,000,000 "flap" about which we read in the early days after the decision to close Antioch College was made? From newspaper reports it was never clear exactly what had happened. I would like to hear more about this. 8. Where did the $5,000,000 go in each of the last two years of Antioch College's operation? About a month ago, Art Zucker, President of the Antioch University Board of Trustees, standing beside a nodding Toni Murdoch, Antioch University's Chancellor, told the Yellow Springs Village Council meeting that were Antioch University to lose another $5,000,000 through the operation of Antioch College, the entire Antioch University might have to be placed in the hands of creditors. He might have said, or maybe he did say Antioch College would go into bankruptcy if it lost another $5,000,000. We farmers call that going "belly up." Could Mr. Zucker not have said just as easily, "We would have gone belly up if we had not taken that $5,000,000 last year." 9. Putting Mr. Zucker's words together with the apparent conversion of $10,000,000 from the Drey fund, it may just be that Antioch College's restricted and endowment funds are the only thing separating Antioch University from bankruptcy. If so, little wonder, Chancellor Murdoch, to now, insists that Antioch College must be closed after the 2007-2008 operating year. Antioch University may need to liquidate (cannibalize) Antioch College's assets to avoid bankruptcy. 10. And what of Antioch College's assets--the Glen Helen, the Corretta Scott King Center WYSO, campus land. Just liquidate them to help pay down listed Antioch University debt. Is that not likely? Is that not what we are hearing from Chancellor Murdoch? Is that not what we are seeing? You know there is a problem. Thank goodness for the Faculty filing to stop this planned degradation of Antioch College. 11. The Antioch Alumni have a proven ability to raise funds. In less than three months, the Alumni are reported to have raised over $6,000,000. Maybe the question to be posed to the Antioch University Board of Trustees should not relate to what the Alumni may do to keep the College open but what may Antioch College Alumni do to help Antioch University Board of Trustees keep the University from going bankrupt. Again, farmers like me might ask, "What can we do to keep the University from going "belly up". 12. Would an independent audit of Antioch University's finances be the place to start? Before closing, I note that I am an elected member of the Antioch Alumni Board. I, also, note that I have used no information received from members of the Alumni Board and consulted with no Board member. Also, in no way do I represent the Alumni Board nor know of any related, non-public information currently in the hands of the Alumni Board bearing on what I offer above. It is simply me reflecting on what I've seen and heard in and around Yellow Springs in the past several weeks and gathered from the public places on the Internet. I am an Antioch graduate and a retired physician. I do live on a farm, the family farm on which I was born and raised about 12 miles from Yellow Springs. Don Wallace Antioch College Class of 1960 -----Original Message----- From: alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com) [mailto:alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:54 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... >Here's my simplistic theory about " Non-profit University" with six far >flung branches. It's a semi-fraud. For-profit universities like Phoenix are >big business. By using part-time untenured instructors (employees rather >costly independent scholars) and the latest technology, they can offer very >inexpensive degrees to a mass market of employed adults living at home. They >sell stock and pay taxes. >Tax exemption because of a prestigious logo gives the alleged >Non-profit U. an extra advantage over Phoenix. This unusual university >(hardly comparable to Princeton or Stanford) can afford to pay its >"presidents" (who would be deans under the thumb of higher administration in >a traditional university) well if they follow orders. One branch, once >independent, but still with tenured faculty, an effective program, and a >national reputation, but with "difficult" able late adolescent residential >students, is expensive and expendable. "Let's put it in the deep freeze for >four years." Then it can be "reinvented" as a money maker. Non Profit U. >will still have the same name and reputation but with pliable part-time >instructors and complacent mature customers who are scattered all over the >country. > >In the business world this happens all the time. Your friendly local grocery >is suddenly a branch of Hannafords, located in Belgium.. > >If you as alumni/faculty/staff/students/parents/ community accept this >analysis, how do you respond creatively and effectively? > >Art Dole '46 Art, thank you very, very much for writing that. Alan From pas0705 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 10:32:40 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Wed Aug 22 10:32:54 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <837016.97148.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Its not the Trustees who have written off the alumni. Its the University Administration. The financial statements were prepared by the University Administration. The case for closing the college was prepared by the University Administration. The Chancellor led ULC in creating a plan for an undergraduate residential program called Antioch College "in name only". The University Administration is the one responsible for presenting the "doom and gloom" financial projection that neatly ignored the Board's pledge of financial support for the renewal plan. -l > John Hevelin said: > > I believe the Trustees have written off the College > alumni as a factor, > which I think explains their "non-negotiable" > stance. I think they have > calculated (possibly based on alumni contributions > over the decades) that > the contribution of the alumni simply isn't enough > to justify the pain in > the ass that running the College entails. By > closing the College forever, > they rid themselves of troublesome faculty and > students, an irritating (but > comparatively impoverished) bunch of alumni, and can > cash in the existing > College real estate assets for a nice bonus, > possibly with the blessing of > at least part of the Village of Yellow Springs. > It's like the old Lily > Tomlin telephone operator skit: "We don't care. We > don't have to. We're > the phone company." > > Our challenge is to make them care. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting From pas0705 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 11:51:36 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Wed Aug 22 11:51:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <001701c7e4c9$141ea2e0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <890738.12534.qm@web63904.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- Don Wallace wrote: > 1. Much of the loss for which Antioch University > seeks to put Antioch > College down is "loss" of discounted tuition. It is > projected to be over > $4,000,000 dollars in the year Antioch University > chooses to close Antioch > College, Fiscal Year 2008-2009. This "loss" is not > so much a loss to > Antioch as a "loss" of revenue to Antioch > University. May we call this a > paper loss? Can you reference the page number you're pulling this from? I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Obviously, net tuition revenue (gross tuition - discounts) can be shown to be down from almost $10mil in 02-03 to $6 mil in 05-06. > 2. The other large "loss" was a "subsidy from > overhead" of $740,000. I take > that to be University overhead. Subsidies have always been shown as a negative on the expense sheet. Don't ask me why. > 5. Antioch's endowment was over $30,000,000 as of > March, 2007. Were the > Drey funds intended to be another $10,000,000 added > to the endowment? Uncertain. The were for "implementation of the renewal plan". The university & board interpreted that to mean "deficits caused by the loss of tuition". > 6. As of March, 2007, the value of the Antioch > College endowment is listed > as just over $30,000,000. Antioch College's > endowment of over $30,000,000 > was well over 90% of Antioch University's endowment > of just over > $32,000,000. That is true. Specific information is in the Bond statement. > 7. Endowment yields typically run as high as 5% and > may run as high as 10%. > The financials make it appear the Antioch College > endowment fund yields > something in this range. Think of the impact of an > annual yield of 5-10% > yield from an established Antioch College endowment > of just over > $30,000,000. That would be $1,500,000 to $3,000,000 > annually. Without the > paper "losses" and the "subsidy from overhead" > charges, Antioch College > would be operating reasonably close to a break even > basis. Rather than > $1,500,000 to $3,000,000, Antioch College is > credited with only $150,000 > from endowment income. That is correct. The actual budgeted income is something like 5% of a rolling 12-quarter average. The gains each year are not credited to the college- they go to the university. >Is this the basis for the > $5,000,000 "flap" about > which we read in the early days after the decision > to close Antioch College > was made? From newspaper reports it was never clear > exactly what had > happened. I would like to hear more about this. No- from those financial statement apparently the University spent $5 mil in restricted funds to cover prior operating deficits; very likely in fy01 and FY02. Another page indicates that the University currently has $5mil in outstanding restricted obligations it cannot currently cover. Tom Faecke's statement was supposed to be posted on the Antioch College website according to Chancellor Murdock, but never was. > 8. Where did the $5,000,000 go in each of the last > two years of Antioch > College's operation? It went to the gap between budgeted revenue and budgetd expenses, caused in part by the drop in net tuition revenue. > 9. Putting Mr. Zucker's words together with the > apparent conversion of > $10,000,000 from the Drey fund, it may just be that > Antioch College's > restricted and endowment funds are the only thing > separating Antioch > University from bankruptcy. Actually, the only thing separating Antioch University from bankruptcy is the failure to financially support a major curriculum change that included APPROVED deficit budgeting for 5 years. >If so, little wonder, > Chancellor Murdoch, to > now, insists that Antioch College must be closed > after the 2007-2008 > operating year. Antioch University may need to > liquidate (cannibalize) > Antioch College's assets to avoid bankruptcy. That's assuming no source of gifts and/or grants, which was always intended to be the main source of support for the implementation of the Renewal Curriculum. > 10. And what of Antioch College's assets--the Glen > Helen, the Corretta > Scott King Center WYSO, campus land. Just liquidate > them to help pay down > listed Antioch University debt. Is that not likely? If you've read fully the financial report, you'll see a slide that indicates the approximate value of those assets. > 12. Would an independent audit of Antioch > University's finances be the > place to start? An independent audit might help provide answers to the questions such as: how much of the $5mil in outstanding restricted fund obligation should be attributed to the College? How much has the University really contributed to "allowed deficits" at the college, if we take into consideration gains on the endowment and the University deciding to partially fund depreciation in the years the College went over its "allowed deficit?" I appreciate your review of the documents- having others look can often find things that are missed. By all means, keep asking the questions! -laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 12:50:32 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 12:50:44 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <031638a6451b2652c4ea6ab5e700c3ea@www.antiochians.org> >>Yes, I agree that at least at this point Taylor Branch's narrative on King is the best we have available, but he was not writing a political history, he was focused on a particular leader of a moral movement that at times had to act through the political process. King was not a politician. In contrast, Caro is writing political biography, and thus he must focus on the institutions through which LBJ worked during his career. >I've read both Branch and Caro. I believe Branch was writing the history of a political movement, using King, its leader, as a focal point. King's moral movement had a political goal: equal citizenship rights for Negros (to use the terminology of the time). The Freedom Rides, the lunch counter sit-ins -- these all drove the political process by making the evil of Jim Crow/segregation visible. Branch highlights the fact that the Justice Department's "case by case" court strategy was running out of steam in the face of segregationist stonewalling. It was going to take equal voting rights to force the final change. And though the groundwork may have been laid as far back as the New Deal, civil rights workers and activists were still being lynched the summer I started Antioch (1964), when Schwerner, Goodwin, and Chaney were murdered in Mississippi. King's continued agitation, both in demonstrations and behind-the-scenes negotiations, kept the voting issue alive. > >Unfortunately, Caro's last (to date) volume on LBJ ends before the 1960 presidential election, so we don't really have his interpretation of the last half-decade before the Voting Rights Act. I'm an athiest, but I pray nightly that Caro will live long enough to cover the years 1960-68! > >John Hevelin '68 Which is the point of the original point that "radicals" drive liberals to action. My point about Caro and Branch is that both are chronicalling the same era their POV most certainly defines the outcome of their research. "America in the King Years" vs "The Years of Lyndon Johnson" would imply that even talking about the exact same set events the two would tend to view their protagonist as the mover and the shaker. Who reads biographies (who even writes) of passive non-doers? From duffy at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 22 12:55:32 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Wed Aug 22 13:06:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Alumni raise millions! Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:10:20 PM College Staff From: Linda Sattem Subject: Alumni raise millions! To: Announcements Pulse College Staff Our Alumni Rock! http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2007/08/21/ddn082207antiochcashweb.html Linda Lee Sattem, Ph.D., PCC/S Director, Counseling and Wellness Center Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs OH 45387-1697 (937) 769-1129 direct (937) 769-1130 Center (937) 769-1125 fax E-mail is not a secure form of communication, and precautions need to be taken to protect all confidential information. From jdavid at coldren.net Wed Aug 22 13:30:17 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Wed Aug 22 13:32:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <001701c7e4c9$141ea2e0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> References: <866a99e694140fa183c957644a2d9b51@antiochians.org> <001701c7e4c9$141ea2e0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <012301c7e4e2$1cbd0540$56370fc0$@net> Don, You've done a really good job analyzing the financial material in what you call the "Antioch Leaked Papers" site. And you asked some important questions the papers don't answer. But one questions still nags me. If the break-even budget is, say, $10 of which $6 is expected tuition income and you only take in $1 in discounted tuition income, isn't that a $5 loss of anticipated revenue? It may only be a "paper" loss until the bills come due for the $10 and then it becomes a debt that has to be monetized at some time. Just ask the stock market investors of late if their "paper" losses are immaterial. Does that make sense? J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Don Wallace Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:31 AM To: 'Alumni Chat List' Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... Have you folks looked at the financial pages on the Antioch Leaked Papers website. I am not a financial person and do not pretend to have expertise in matters relating to budgets but those papers appear to highlight many of the concerns you are expressing nicely. Here is some of what I observe from my review of those pages. 1. Much of the loss for which Antioch University seeks to put Antioch College down is "loss" of discounted tuition. It is projected to be over $4,000,000 dollars in the year Antioch University chooses to close Antioch College, Fiscal Year 2008-2009. This "loss" is not so much a loss to Antioch as a "loss" of revenue to Antioch University. May we call this a paper loss? 2. The other large "loss" was a "subsidy from overhead" of $740,000. I take that to be University overhead. Likely, this item includes the salaries of the Antioch University Chancellor, some of the staff engaged in putting Antioch College down and their offices--many on the Antioch College campus in the Fels and Kettering buildings. Are paper losses being used by Antioch University to justify closing Antioch College? 3. It is apparent that Antioch University is not doing so well financially. As a whole, it even appears to be tailing off slightly in attendance over the past five years. This tailing off does not include the loss of enrollment at Antioch College. 4. In each of the last two operating years before Antioch College is closed, the budgets project that $5,000,000 is released from the restrictions of the Drey fund, clearly a restricted fund listed under Antioch College. Could it be that paper "losses" were generated to justify withdrawing $5,000,000 a year for each of two years from Antioch College restricted funds? If the $10,000,000 is covering paper "losses," where did the $10,000,000 in funds really go? To Antioch University coffers for distribution to other elements of the University? 5. Antioch's endowment was over $30,000,000 as of March, 2007. Were the Drey funds intended to be another $10,000,000 added to the endowment? 6. As of March, 2007, the value of the Antioch College endowment is listed as just over $30,000,000. Antioch College's endowment of over $30,000,000 was well over 90% of Antioch University's endowment of just over $32,000,000. 7. Endowment yields typically run as high as 5% and may run as high as 10%. The financials make it appear the Antioch College endowment fund yields something in this range. Think of the impact of an annual yield of 5-10% yield from an established Antioch College endowment of just over $30,000,000. That would be $1,500,000 to $3,000,000 annually. Without the paper "losses" and the "subsidy from overhead" charges, Antioch College would be operating reasonably close to a break even basis. Rather than $1,500,000 to $3,000,000, Antioch College is credited with only $150,000 from endowment income. Is this the basis for the $5,000,000 "flap" about which we read in the early days after the decision to close Antioch College was made? From newspaper reports it was never clear exactly what had happened. I would like to hear more about this. 8. Where did the $5,000,000 go in each of the last two years of Antioch College's operation? About a month ago, Art Zucker, President of the Antioch University Board of Trustees, standing beside a nodding Toni Murdoch, Antioch University's Chancellor, told the Yellow Springs Village Council meeting that were Antioch University to lose another $5,000,000 through the operation of Antioch College, the entire Antioch University might have to be placed in the hands of creditors. He might have said, or maybe he did say Antioch College would go into bankruptcy if it lost another $5,000,000. We farmers call that going "belly up." Could Mr. Zucker not have said just as easily, "We would have gone belly up if we had not taken that $5,000,000 last year." 9. Putting Mr. Zucker's words together with the apparent conversion of $10,000,000 from the Drey fund, it may just be that Antioch College's restricted and endowment funds are the only thing separating Antioch University from bankruptcy. If so, little wonder, Chancellor Murdoch, to now, insists that Antioch College must be closed after the 2007-2008 operating year. Antioch University may need to liquidate (cannibalize) Antioch College's assets to avoid bankruptcy. 10. And what of Antioch College's assets--the Glen Helen, the Corretta Scott King Center WYSO, campus land. Just liquidate them to help pay down listed Antioch University debt. Is that not likely? Is that not what we are hearing from Chancellor Murdoch? Is that not what we are seeing? You know there is a problem. Thank goodness for the Faculty filing to stop this planned degradation of Antioch College. 11. The Antioch Alumni have a proven ability to raise funds. In less than three months, the Alumni are reported to have raised over $6,000,000. Maybe the question to be posed to the Antioch University Board of Trustees should not relate to what the Alumni may do to keep the College open but what may Antioch College Alumni do to help Antioch University Board of Trustees keep the University from going bankrupt. Again, farmers like me might ask, "What can we do to keep the University from going "belly up". 12. Would an independent audit of Antioch University's finances be the place to start? Before closing, I note that I am an elected member of the Antioch Alumni Board. I, also, note that I have used no information received from members of the Alumni Board and consulted with no Board member. Also, in no way do I represent the Alumni Board nor know of any related, non-public information currently in the hands of the Alumni Board bearing on what I offer above. It is simply me reflecting on what I've seen and heard in and around Yellow Springs in the past several weeks and gathered from the public places on the Internet. I am an Antioch graduate and a retired physician. I do live on a farm, the family farm on which I was born and raised about 12 miles from Yellow Springs. Don Wallace Antioch College Class of 1960 -----Original Message----- From: alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com) [mailto:alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:54 AM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... >Here's my simplistic theory about " Non-profit University" with six far >flung branches. It's a semi-fraud. For-profit universities like Phoenix are >big business. By using part-time untenured instructors (employees rather >costly independent scholars) and the latest technology, they can offer very >inexpensive degrees to a mass market of employed adults living at home. They >sell stock and pay taxes. >Tax exemption because of a prestigious logo gives the alleged >Non-profit U. an extra advantage over Phoenix. This unusual university >(hardly comparable to Princeton or Stanford) can afford to pay its >"presidents" (who would be deans under the thumb of higher administration in >a traditional university) well if they follow orders. One branch, once >independent, but still with tenured faculty, an effective program, and a >national reputation, but with "difficult" able late adolescent residential >students, is expensive and expendable. "Let's put it in the deep freeze for >four years." Then it can be "reinvented" as a money maker. Non Profit U. >will still have the same name and reputation but with pliable part-time >instructors and complacent mature customers who are scattered all over the >country. > >In the business world this happens all the time. Your friendly local grocery >is suddenly a branch of Hannafords, located in Belgium.. > >If you as alumni/faculty/staff/students/parents/ community accept this >analysis, how do you respond creatively and effectively? > >Art Dole '46 Art, thank you very, very much for writing that. Alan _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From pas0705 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 14:33:36 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Wed Aug 22 14:33:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <012301c7e4e2$1cbd0540$56370fc0$@net> Message-ID: <178400.68722.qm@web63905.mail.re1.yahoo.com> The difference between the first line gross "tuition and fees" and the 3rd line "net tuition and fees" is like the difference between your gross income and your net income. You wouldn't plan your budget around your gross income, then claim that the taxes taken out caused your deficit. In 01-02 the college received $9.5 mil in net revenue for tuition. Projected year end for 06-07 was $5.9 mil in net revenue for tuition. The loss in tuition alone accounts for a $3.5 mil difference in revenue comparing 01-02 to 06-07. In the university's "closing the college" financials they indicated the originally projected overall revenue (without the drey funds) for both 06-07 and 07-08 was about $13 mil, compared with about $19 mil in expenses. $5mil of the drey funds were released for revenue in each of those years, bringing revenue in line with expenses. The important thing to remember is that a calculation in overall tuition was redone in the spring of 06, AFTER the dismal turnout for the fall of 05 class. In the McGregor bond document, February 06, the University stated "all budgets have been adjusted and show a surplus". So, in the Spring of 06, the University computes projected revenue from tuition taking into account the Fall of 05 class. All is good. In the Spring of 07, the University redoes their tuition revenue projections. This time, not so good- we have to close the College. Both of these tuition revenue projections already took into account the Fall of 05 class numbers. The difference between the projected tuition revenue that the University computed in Spring of '06 and what was included in the presentations in Spring of '07 couldn't be more then (what I'd guess) a $1 mil difference per year? Which leaves one to ask- what REALLY happened between Spring of 06 and Spring of 07 that the financial picture changed SO MUCH that the University now feels closure is the only option? Is it because in the Fall of 06 they budgeted based on increasing the Fall of 07 entering class size to 180 students? Even though more stringent acceptance standards were being used? Or is it because, as reported by the Vice-Chair of the board, and supported by the financial documents on The Antioch Papers, there is apparently $5mil in restricted gift obligations that can't be covered? If the Board pledged to support the costs of implementing the renewal plan, do the questions regarding tuition revenue really matter? -laura --- "J. David Coldren" wrote: > Don, > > You've done a really good job analyzing the > financial material in what you > call the "Antioch Leaked Papers" site. And you asked > some important > questions the papers don't answer. > > But one questions still nags me. If the break-even > budget is, say, $10 of > which $6 is expected tuition income and you only > take in $1 in discounted > tuition income, isn't that a $5 loss of anticipated > revenue? It may only be > a "paper" loss until the bills come due for the $10 > and then it becomes a > debt that has to be monetized at some time. Just ask > the stock market > investors of late if their "paper" losses are > immaterial. > > Does that make sense? > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 14:37:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (taisie (taisie@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 14:37:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Reviv In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27fdc594751495078af6395134d995b7@antiochians.org> Wow. I worked at a store last summer that sold Folkmanis puppets. I hated them then; they were horrible to tally up for inventory--there's four or five kinds of every animal, and some of the label descriptors were things like "cuddly" and "furry". What's the difference between a furry brown white puppet and a cuddly brown white puppet? I dunno. But I'll have to buy up a couple now. :) >----- Original Message ----- > >Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:19:14 AM >Pulse >From: Dennie Eagleson >Subject: Puppet makers donate to the Faculty Fund and the Revival fund >To: Announcements >Pulse > >PUPPET MAKERS AND ANTIOCH GRADS DONATE TO THE FACULTY LEGAL FUND >AND THE COLLEGE REVIVAL FUND > > > >Atis and Judy Folkmanis, Antioch grads from '63 and '64 have >contributed $20,000 to the Faculty Legal Fund, and $80,000 to the >College Revival Fund. Atis and his family were living in a displaced >persons camp in Germany from 1945-1949. They were sponsored by >Antioch College and the Presbyterian Church to come to Yellow >Springs. Atis believes that Antioch "saved his life". He grew up in >Yellow Springs, met Judy at Antioch, and they moved to Berkeley where >Judy created a business making puppets. Their business is known as >Folkmanis (you can buy their very realistic animal puppets in the Glen >Helen Nature Shop). >Atis and Judy were Rebecca Rice award winners in 2005. They >have been contributing regularly to Antioch. They attended a meeting >on Sunday in Berkeley and met Anne Townsend, Kelly Kersting and Barry >(Dallas) Grennell. They had received the Alumni Board letter from >Nancy Crowe the same day, and became aware of the Revival efforts. > >THIS IS SUCH A GREAT STORY!!! > >Dennie From jdavid at coldren.net Wed Aug 22 15:17:42 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Wed Aug 22 15:19:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <178400.68722.qm@web63905.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <012301c7e4e2$1cbd0540$56370fc0$@net> <178400.68722.qm@web63905.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <014e01c7e4f1$1d786830$58693890$@net> Laura, I appreciate your recitation of the history and I accept your interpretation as being as close as we can now get to the truth. But I think it raises an even more interesting question: when you divide the College's expenses by the number of FTE students what has been the cost/FTE student each year since your history begins in 2001-2002? Once we can tease those numbers out of financial reports that you clearly seem to have a good grasp of, we can have some idea how sustainable the College has been AND what it might take for sustainability in the future. If you have these numbers (which I hope the Trustees have somewhere), then I would like to see them. J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: Laura Fathauer [mailto:pas0705@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:34 PM To: jdavid@coldren.net; 'Alumni Chat List'; w420@earthlink.net Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... The difference between the first line gross "tuition and fees" and the 3rd line "net tuition and fees" is like the difference between your gross income and your net income. You wouldn't plan your budget around your gross income, then claim that the taxes taken out caused your deficit. In 01-02 the college received $9.5 mil in net revenue for tuition. Projected year end for 06-07 was $5.9 mil in net revenue for tuition. The loss in tuition alone accounts for a $3.5 mil difference in revenue comparing 01-02 to 06-07. In the university's "closing the college" financials they indicated the originally projected overall revenue (without the drey funds) for both 06-07 and 07-08 was about $13 mil, compared with about $19 mil in expenses. $5mil of the drey funds were released for revenue in each of those years, bringing revenue in line with expenses. The important thing to remember is that a calculation in overall tuition was redone in the spring of 06, AFTER the dismal turnout for the fall of 05 class. In the McGregor bond document, February 06, the University stated "all budgets have been adjusted and show a surplus". So, in the Spring of 06, the University computes projected revenue from tuition taking into account the Fall of 05 class. All is good. In the Spring of 07, the University redoes their tuition revenue projections. This time, not so good- we have to close the College. Both of these tuition revenue projections already took into account the Fall of 05 class numbers. The difference between the projected tuition revenue that the University computed in Spring of '06 and what was included in the presentations in Spring of '07 couldn't be more then (what I'd guess) a $1 mil difference per year? Which leaves one to ask- what REALLY happened between Spring of 06 and Spring of 07 that the financial picture changed SO MUCH that the University now feels closure is the only option? Is it because in the Fall of 06 they budgeted based on increasing the Fall of 07 entering class size to 180 students? Even though more stringent acceptance standards were being used? Or is it because, as reported by the Vice-Chair of the board, and supported by the financial documents on The Antioch Papers, there is apparently $5mil in restricted gift obligations that can't be covered? If the Board pledged to support the costs of implementing the renewal plan, do the questions regarding tuition revenue really matter? -laura --- "J. David Coldren" wrote: > Don, > > You've done a really good job analyzing the > financial material in what you > call the "Antioch Leaked Papers" site. And you asked > some important > questions the papers don't answer. > > But one questions still nags me. If the break-even > budget is, say, $10 of > which $6 is expected tuition income and you only > take in $1 in discounted > tuition income, isn't that a $5 loss of anticipated > revenue? It may only be > a "paper" loss until the bills come due for the $10 > and then it becomes a > debt that has to be monetized at some time. Just ask > the stock market > investors of late if their "paper" losses are > immaterial. > > Does that make sense? > ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 15:51:29 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 22 15:51:40 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <001701c7e4c9$141ea2e0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <2e9029fd31afeafb44803745b036bd58@www.antiochians.org> Don Wallace wrote: 7. Endowment yields typically run as high as 5% and may run as high as 10%. The financials make it appear the Antioch College endowment fund yields something in this range. Think of the impact of an annual yield of 5-10% yield from an established Antioch College endowment of just over $30,000,000. That would be $1,500,000 to $3,000,000 annually. Without the paper "losses" and the "subsidy from overhead" charges, Antioch College would be operating reasonably close to a break even basis. Rather than $1,500,000 to $3,000,000, Antioch College is credited with only $150,000 from endowment income. Is this the basis for the $5,000,000 "flap" about which we read in the early days after the decision to close Antioch College was made? From newspaper reports it was never clear exactly what had happened. I would like to hear more about this. Don, I'm late to this discussion, and it seems that Laura has already provided some excellent insights and clarification. But I'd like to clarify the endowment story a bit. As Laura mentioned, Board policy sets endowment payout at 5% of a 3-year rolling average of the endowment. The $150k to $250k that shows up in the College budget as endowment revenue is really only the unrestricted portion of that payout. So, for example, though the payout to the College is around $1,500,000 on its $30m endowment, fully $1.2 to $1.3 million are committed to restricted purposes -- mostly financial aid and scholarships, some endowed library funds, one or two endowed chairs, etc. -- and show up in the "released from restricted line" (if they are to be expended for their designated purposes during that fiscal year). But there's another story, and that is the endowment growth. I just read in the Chronicle that Harvard's endowment grew by a percentage in the upper teens this past year. I've been told that our endowment has been yielding a 13% return for the past several years. The growth of the endowment -- the difference between the percentage of payout and the percentage of earnings -- goes back into the endowment. It is booked as revenue, and then logged as an increase in the assets --- of the University! The Board might well have decided, during the challenging time of implementing an entire new program and organization, to push the payout on the endowment to 10%. They still have to pay a fund manager (probably around 1%), but without touching the principle, could have pumped an additional $1.5m into the College's budget each year. Bob From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 15:59:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Wed Aug 22 15:59:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <014e01c7e4f1$1d786830$58693890$@net> Message-ID: JDC wrote: But I think it raises an even more interesting question: when you divide the College's expenses by the number of FTE students what has been the cost/FTE student each year since your history begins in 2001-2002? Once we can tease those numbers out of financial reports that you clearly seem to have a good grasp of, we can have some idea how sustainable the College has been AND what it might take for sustainability in the future. If you have these numbers (which I hope the Trustees have somewhere), then I would like to see them. David, You've hit on the basic equation that was used, in part, to arrive at the famous (or infamous, if you dismiss the fact that we actually did achieve headcount above 800) "800 by 2000" slogan. Spreading fixed costs across "X" heads, when does the College become viable? I used to sermonize about 600 students supporting 200 staff and faculty being an unsustainable dynamic. With 1,000 students, the cost/FTE obviously goes down. At 600-650 students there's never any money for capital projects, and there's never any seed corn; the College consumes all of its revenue and lives off the capital. Bob From davidallenusa at yahoo.com Wed Aug 22 17:56:01 2007 From: davidallenusa at yahoo.com (YAZZ ALLEN) Date: Wed Aug 22 17:56:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn In-Reply-To: <20070822173229.8BD24612BB56@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <324924.87259.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> August 22, 07 Hi From Yazz Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com Here is information about the present do-nothing legal activity of the Antiocih Alumni Association Boarad "Legal Committee," presently headed by a close friend and fellow classmate (from the Antioch College class of 19550 of current Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman, North Carolina millionaire Arthur Zucker '55. The Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee" presently (Aug. 22, 07) has 2 projects. The first involves filing an application for tax exemption for College Revival Fund, Inc. This is being handled by Ken Sussman in New York with input from Rick Daily and Martin Fried '55. The second is the question of whether the alumni have any ability to bring a lawsuit at some time. Jason Fregeau, who is admitted to practice in Ohio, is the lead person on that. The possibility of a law suit directed against the Antioch University Board Of Trustees is described (by a current member of the Legal Committee) as "not on the top burner right now because we are trying to work out a nonlitigious solution to keeping the College open." To join the Legal Committee, please submit your name to legal@antiochians.org. It is possible that non-lawyers as well as lawyers may be admitted to the Antioch Alumni Association "Legal Committee." The head of the Antioch Alumni Association Board Legal Committee is a good friend and co-classmate of Arthur Zucker '55, present Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman, and leader of the effort to close down Antioch College completely in July 2008. Mr. Zucker's good friend, and fellow classmate from the Antioch College Class Of 1955 is named Martin Fried of Syracuse, NY USA, an attorney connected with the Hancock and Estabrook Law Firm located in Syracuse NY USA. The conflict of interest is obvious. The Antioch Alumni Association refuses to intitate legal action because of the close ties of the leader of the AU BOT (Mr. Zucker '55) and the leader of the Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee," which is the gatekeeper determing whether the Alumni Assn. will proceed with legal action against the AU BOT, or (as is the case presently) refuse and refrain from doing that while precious time passes. Information about Mr. Fried '55: Martin L. Fried, Of Counsel Practice AreasTax Trusts & Estates PHONE: (315) 471-3151 Ext. 393 FAX: (315) 471-3167 mfried@hancocklaw.com Mr. Fried?s practice includes personal, corporate, real estate and estate taxation. He is the author of Taxation of Securities Transactions, a two-volume publication that is supplemented and revised semiannually, and numerous articles on taxation and trusts and estates. Mr. Fried is the Crandall Melvin Professor of Wills and Trusts Emeritus at Syracuse University College of Law, where he taught for 39 years. Mr. Fried has also taught at the University of Iowa, University of Cincinnati and Washington University. He is a member of the American Law Institute's Members Consultative Group for the Restatement (Third) of Property: Wills and Other Donative Transfers and for the Restatement (Third) of Trusts. Education New York University School of Law (LL.M. in Taxation) 1968 Columbia Law School (J.D.) 1958 Antioch College (B.A.) 1955 Admitted to Practice New York United States District Court (SDNY, EDNY) United States Court of Appeals (Second Circuit) United States Tax Court Professional Activities Onondaga County Bar Association Director, Onondaga County Bar Foundation New York State Bar Association American Bar Association American Law Institute Life Fellow, American Bar Foundation New York State Bar Association President's Committee on Access to Justice Board of Directors, Antioch College Alumni Born New York, New York --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... See my pro movie actors photos and recent credits by visiting WWW.IMDb.Com and inputting "Yazz Allen" in home page search box, then going to my home page for photos. On the photo page, hit IMDb RESUME box/icon for recent credits/ resume details. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 22 18:02:02 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Wed Aug 22 18:13:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <9e701f1e021929d6a1735a341d280583@antiochians.org> References: <9e701f1e021929d6a1735a341d280583@antiochians.org> Message-ID: I spoke with Andrew today and there is no action planned by the Union for picketing of any BOT members home this weekend. What we discussed at the Union meeting on Monday was the possible use of this tactic if it becomes necessary in the future. A lot depends on the outcome of this meeting this weekend. I want to remind everyone that this is being videotaped (by me, as part of my job at the College). The tape is owned by the College and anything said can be used by the BOT as evidence in any court case. Sandy Coulter Library Assistant / Serials /Audio-visuals / ILL Antioch College Library Yellow Springs, OH 45387-1694 (937)769-1235 scoulter@antioch-college.edu "Don't Fall Down! That's the whole key." Joe Cali From jdavid at coldren.net Wed Aug 22 18:13:26 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Wed Aug 22 18:15:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn In-Reply-To: <324924.87259.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20070822173229.8BD24612BB56@w3.antioch.edu> <324924.87259.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <018801c7e509$aa4d5690$fee803b0$@net> All that Yazz: You list Mr. Fried's credentials. Don't you think he might know a little something about the law? Especially about the fiduciary responsibility of a Trustee? Listen, he might be a friend of NY Governor Spitzer. Shouldn't that disqualify him, too? Since so many more students used to come from New York State before the current Chair of the Trustees took over? I smell a juicy conspiracy. Let's loose the hounds and investigate! (I'll refrain from calling my favorite Antioch Sherlocks by name. They'll be sniffing around soon enough). J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of YAZZ ALLEN Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:56 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn August 22, 07 Hi From Yazz Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com Here is information about the present do-nothing legal activity of the Antiocih Alumni Association Boarad "Legal Committee," presently headed by a close friend and fellow classmate (from the Antioch College class of 19550 of current Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman, North Carolina millionaire Arthur Zucker '55. The Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee" presently (Aug. 22, 07) has 2 projects. The first involves filing an application for tax exemption for College Revival Fund, Inc. This is being handled by Ken Sussman in New York with input from Rick Daily and Martin Fried '55. The second is the question of whether the alumni have any ability to bring a lawsuit at some time. Jason Fregeau, who is admitted to practice in Ohio, is the lead person on that. The possibility of a law suit directed against the Antioch University Board Of Trustees is described (by a current member of the Legal Committee) as "not on the top burner right now because we are trying to work out a nonlitigious solution to keeping the College open." To join the Legal Committee, please submit your name to legal@antiochians.org. It is possible that non-lawyers as well as lawyers may be admitted to the Antioch Alumni Association "Legal Committee." The head of the Antioch Alumni Association Board Legal Committee is a good friend and co-classmate of Arthur Zucker '55, present Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman, and leader of the effort to close down Antioch College completely in July 2008. Mr. Zucker's good friend, and fellow classmate from the Antioch College Class Of 1955 is named Martin Fried of Syracuse, NY USA, an attorney connected with the Hancock and Estabrook Law Firm located in Syracuse NY USA. The conflict of interest is obvious. The Antioch Alumni Association refuses to intitate legal action because of the close ties of the leader of the AU BOT (Mr. Zucker '55) and the leader of the Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee," which is the gatekeeper determing whether the Alumni Assn. will proceed with legal action against the AU BOT, or (as is the case presently) refuse and refrain from doing that while precious time passes. Information about Mr. Fried '55: Martin L. Fried, Of Counsel Practice AreasTax Trusts & Estates PHONE: (315) 471-3151 Ext. 393 FAX: (315) 471-3167 mfried@hancocklaw.com Mr. Fried's practice includes personal, corporate, real estate and estate taxation. He is the author of Taxation of Securities Transactions, a two-volume publication that is supplemented and revised semiannually, and numerous articles on taxation and trusts and estates. Mr. Fried is the Crandall Melvin Professor of Wills and Trusts Emeritus at Syracuse University College of Law, where he taught for 39 years. Mr. Fried has also taught at the University of Iowa, University of Cincinnati and Washington University. He is a member of the American Law Institute's Members Consultative Group for the Restatement (Third) of Property: Wills and Other Donative Transfers and for the Restatement (Third) of Trusts. Education New York University School of Law (LL.M. in Taxation) 1968 Columbia Law School (J.D.) 1958 Antioch College (B.A.) 1955 Admitted to Practice New York United States District Court (SDNY, EDNY) United States Court of Appeals (Second Circuit) United States Tax Court Professional Activities Onondaga County Bar Association Director, Onondaga County Bar Foundation New York State Bar Association American Bar Association American Law Institute Life Fellow, American Bar Foundation New York State Bar Association President's Committee on Access to Justice Board of Directors, Antioch College Alumni Born New York, New York --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... See my pro movie actors photos and recent credits by visiting WWW.IMDb.Com and inputting "Yazz Allen" in home page search box, then going to my home page for photos. On the photo page, hit IMDb RESUME box/icon for recent credits/ resume details. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Wed Aug 22 18:19:39 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Wed Aug 22 18:30:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: <012301c7e4e2$1cbd0540$56370fc0$@net> References: < > <866a99e694140fa183c957644a2d9b51@antiochians.org> <, > <001701c7e4c9$141ea2e0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> <,> <012301c7e4e2$1cbd0540$56370fc0$@net> Message-ID: I spoke with Andrew today and there is no action planned by the Union for picketing of any BOT members home this weekend. What we discussed at the Union meeting on Monday was the possible use of this tactic if it becomes necessary in the future. A lot depends on the outcome of this meeting this weekend. I want to remind everyone that this is being videotaped (by me, as part of my job at the College). The tape is owned by the College and anything said can be used by the BOT as evidence in any court case. Sandy Coulter Library Assistant / Serials /Audio-visuals / ILL Antioch College Library Yellow Springs, OH 45387-1694 (937)769-1235 scoulter@antioch-college.edu "Don't Fall Down! That's the whole key." Joe Cali From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 18:42:11 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 18:42:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn In-Reply-To: <324924.87259.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <30147bf587a11ef844c771b1400159f1@www.antiochians.org> Yazz - The fact that you believe that the Alumni should be suing the pants off of the University is quite well-known. That the Alumni Board is planning on negotiating is also well-known. You may disagree with the focus on negotiations first, but that does not mean that there is any conspiracy against your preferred course of action. It is simply a disagreement on tactics. Wild ranting about how this indicates the Alumni Board is rotten to the core, or whatever your point is, only distracts from the debate on tactics. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Wed Aug 22 19:14:50 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Wed Aug 22 19:15:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn In-Reply-To: <018801c7e509$aa4d5690$fee803b0$@net> Message-ID: >I smell a juicy conspiracy. Let's loose the hounds and investigate! (I'll >refrain from calling my favorite Antioch Sherlocks by name. They'll be >sniffing around soon enough). > > > >J. David Coldren '65 > > that would pre-supposed that I give a shit. which I dont. Because ... I'm the the conspiracy. actively working with the alumni board to ensure failure and colude with the BoT. you heard it hear first. /sarcasm Yazz... piss off _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see trouble…before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 From theodora at imbris.com Wed Aug 22 19:31:18 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Wed Aug 22 19:27:34 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Alumni Raise Millions! Message-ID: Steve, thanks for letting us know about the article in the Dayton Daily News. For those of us who have old computers and dialup, when articles are found, would you mind copying them to the forum? I was never able to get more than the headline. Thanks a bunch! (our alumni do rock!) Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 20:44:02 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 20:44:14 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Honest Question In-Reply-To: <4daada299c2504f7727967df29ea7bac@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <43fcf312f03ca0b3b9f67879b4c65f09@www.antiochians.org> Deb, >Though David and I are not in collusion on this thread and you responded to his post, I'll add that I do imagine there must be a University policy prohibiting the use of their electronic communication to solicit funds for the benefit of lawsuits against them or their interests. You "imagine"? Well, that must make it so, then, eh? Why don't you go research the issue and bring back some facts, cite some chapter and verse, and maybe we can talk about something concrete other than your uninformed innuendo that maybe something improper might have occurred somewhere sometime. >Also, as I pointed out in another post of mine completely unrelated to this issue, the litmus test for ethical behavior has nothing to do with whether or not someone complains. >Deb '83 Deb, I hope you won't take this unkindly, but your credibility level with me has dropped to zero. Plonk. John Hevelin '68 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 20:56:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 20:56:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges In-Reply-To: <031638a6451b2652c4ea6ab5e700c3ea@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <329cfe5f38456d26db530af5eb0de923@www.antiochians.org> Travis, >Which is the point of the original point that "radicals" drive liberals to action. My point about Caro and Branch is that both are chronicalling the same era their POV most certainly defines the outcome of their research. "America in the King Years" vs "The Years of Lyndon Johnson" would imply that even talking about the exact same set events the two would tend to view their protagonist as the mover and the shaker. Who reads biographies (who even writes) of passive non-doers? My posting was in support of Rowan's earlier commentary. I think we are in violent agreement. In this particular case, both King and LBJ had significant roles to play -- King kept the pressure on, but it took LBJ's legislative genius to get things enacted into Federal law. John Hevelin '68 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 21:07:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (catbirdgirl (catbirdgirl@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 21:07:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn In-Reply-To: <324924.87259.qm@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Yazz you are a prolific and opinionated writer about your agenda for Antioch. Have you ever been on a board, volunteered, worked at all on Antioch matters? Robin '91 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 21:50:17 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 21:50:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <32746a9e4f873ed3035df78394721543@antiochians.org> Matt thanks for the reply. So, I assume the votes were not done by secret ballot, and the information is therefore out there somewhere? Otherwise each BOT member would possibly at this point wish to claim they voted against the closure. Jane Slater Class of '80 From Sistersara at aol.com Wed Aug 22 21:50:14 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 22 21:50:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] small colleges Message-ID: In a message dated 8/21/2007 5:32:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: I've read both Branch and Caro. I believe Branch was writing the history of a political movement, using King, its leader, as a focal point. King's moral movement had a political goal: equal citizenship rights for Negros (to use the terminology of the time). The Freedom Rides, the lunch counter sit-ins -- these all drove the political process by making the evil of Jim Crow/segregation visible. Branch highlights the fact that the Justice Department's "case by case" court strategy was running out of steam in the face of segregationist stonewalling. It was going to take equal voting rights to force the final change. And though the groundwork may have been laid as far back as the New Deal, civil rights workers and activists were still being lynched the summer I started Antioch (1964), when Schwerner, Goodwin, and Chaney were murdered in Mississippi. King's continued agitation, both in demonstrations and behind-the-scenes negotiations, kept the voting issue alive. Unfortunately, Caro's last (to date) volume on LBJ ends before the 1960 presidential election, so we don't really have his interpretation of the last half-decade before the Voting Rights Act. I'm an athiest, but I pray nightly that Caro will live long enough to cover the years 1960-68! John Hevelin '68 John I to regularly meditate on the need for Caro to have a long healthy life. He does not use a computer to write -- just an old typewriter and an office with a huge cork-board where he uses thumbtacks to organize his notes. I do not see the Civil Rights movement as a Political Movement. It was (and is) a social movement with some issues that need political resolution. I actually see the Civil Rights movement coming into being in the mid-1930's, with the anti-lynching movement. There are various prongs to this -- publications and publicity about lynching which actually date to the late 1920's, the organization of white church-connected women in the south (a sort of outgrowth of the temperance movement), who campaigned against lynching, mostly through "status" churches -- Methodist, Presbyterian and Episcopal mostly -- and who succeeded in bringing the rate of lynching down to just a few a year from rates in the several hundreds over a very few years. (Yep, nice the Churches were against Murder!!!), this was followed by a push in the mid-30's to make Lynching a Federal Crime, it passed the House, but the Senate would not even hold a hearing. What you see in this effort which was really coordinated by NAACP -- their first national campaign that extended beyond the Black Community and their own membership -- is the emergence of a set of organizations and their leadership that established over a few years a number of agendas -- and in any action on any of them, the same leaders and the same organizations -- with new ones added over time, begin to establish themselves as a coherent movement. After the failure of the anti-Lynching campaign, the NAACP created the Legal Defense Fund which became the base through which Thurgood Marshall and his mentor, Charles Hamilton Houston took, tried, and selectively appealed -- realizing that political tracks were not open to the movement, but the Judicial one might be. The Legal Defense Fund had a network of supporters, financial but also legal support, all over the country -- eventually being one of the seeds of the Civil Rights Bar. Between 36 and 64 this was really where the action was -- It's great victories were in the first half of the 1950's. King's great contribution was cultural and social -- he helped create a mass movement that could not be ignored, but that was less based on litigation and/or political action, more on moral claims to equity. He organized a framework through which anyone who felt passionate about equity could act. Yes, some of these things had to be resolved through legislation -- particularly ending Jim Crow laws and Voting Rights -- but he never ran for office, he never endorsed candidates, and while some of his associates such as Andrew Young and John Lewis did eventually become politicians and office holders, that was after King was dead, and not part of his agenda or even necessarily supported by his organization. The difference is stark -- it is the difference between organization for the purpose of electing to offices with political power -- or in King's case calling attention to a very immoral culture, and using many avenues and venues to demand change, and to show quite ordinary people that they could participate personally in making those demands. For analytical purposes I think this distinction is very important. When back in the 1930's people decided to celebrate FDR's Birthday by donating dimes, and then created the March of Dimes to support the National Foundation on Infantile Paralysis, that in turn would sponsor research about the disease and support quality rehabilitation programs -- they were not acting politically, they were creating a movement to use biological science to solve a particular set of problems. No one used the March of Dimes to run for political office -- no one used it to accumulate legal powers. It was a mass movement to do something about a particular set of problems. I set that in contrast to a political party which at its core seeks to select representative candidates, run them for office, and win. Ultimately it is about delivering specific people who at least say they have certain beliefs, affiliations, positions and all -- into offices where they can participate in decision making. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 22:10:48 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Michael Casselli (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 22:11:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend Message-ID: <1ad5dc56c37a904bd0cb05b055826404@www.antiochians.org> I must admit I have been saddened by the amount of nastiness going on inside this chat. Rascal, shame on you for outing Deb in a underhanded and threatening way. As far as what we are going into, I may not be the most concise in my attention to all of the conversations leading into this weekend, but I also have to say, bravo for the infighting and the sniping at each other that happens here. Of course we do not agree with many points that come up, but if we present such a divided front, more power to the BoT. We can tear each other apart here and basically present a front imbued with derision and and total disrespect for the process we all claim to adhere to. Where are we going and how do we get there? I am all for differences of opinion, but the BoT has something we do not- A set position. Even if there are detractors, those we need to foster and bring to our side, what might they be thinking-Oh great they are tearing each other apart-good for our side. Civility in discourse is long forgotten here. If not aligned we are lost. Keep up the critique, but come to it from a somewhat more objective stance, afgee to disagree, and I know this is a time worn idea, but we have to be together in our differences. We complain about structure, the paternalistic, hierarchical formation we don't adhere to, but what I see here buys into it, hook line and sinker. I gave up hope in exchange for a day to day process of incremental advances. Critical thought and action are essential, but it leads nowhere if we attack each other. My idea is better then your idea, and I can prove it by being an asshole. Please. What happened to identifying our strengths and proceeding forward? If you have insight, provide it, but do so in a way that accrues validity, not posturing. so tired but willing to continue Casselli 87 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 22:21:12 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Michael Casselli (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 22:21:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: <1ad5dc56c37a904bd0cb05b055826404@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <6d31baada44465d0c4ea43d0837b80e1@www.antiochians.org> >I must admit I have been saddened by the amount of nastiness going on inside this chat. Rascal, shame on you for outing Deb in a underhanded and threatening way. As far as what we are going into, I may not be the most concise in my attention to all of the conversations leading into this weekend, but I also have to say, bravo for the infighting and the sniping at each other that happens here. Of course we do not agree with many points that come up, but if we present such a divided front, more power to the BoT. We can tear each other apart here and basically present a front imbued with derision and and total disrespect for the process we all claim to adhere to. Where are we going and how do we get there? I am all for differences of opinion, but the BoT has something we do not- A set position. Even if there are detractors, those we need to foster and bring to our side, what might they be thinking-Oh great they are tearing each other apart-good for our side. Civility in discourse is >long forgotten here. If not aligned we are lost. Keep up the critique, but come to it from a somewhat more objective stance, afgee to disagree, and I know this is a time worn idea, but we have to be together in our differences. We complain about structure, the paternalistic, hierarchical formation we don't adhere to, but what I see here buys into it, hook line and sinker. >I gave up hope in exchange for a day to day process of incremental advances. Critical thought and action are essential, but it leads nowhere if we attack each other. My idea is better then your idea, and I can prove it by being an asshole. Please. What happened to identifying our strengths and proceeding forward? If you have insight, provide it, but do so in a way that accrues validity, not posturing. >so tired but willing to continue >Casselli 87 agree to disagree typo From dawn at mediawonk.com Wed Aug 22 22:27:11 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Wed Aug 22 22:27:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Saturday action In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There was suggestion they might consider picketing the McGregor construction site, which would likely prevent the trades people from crossing the picket line. Now there's an idea that might have some impact! Dawn '83 On 8/22/07 3:19 PM, "Sandy Coulter" wrote: > I spoke with Andrew today and there is no action planned by the Union for > picketing of any BOT members home this weekend. > > What we discussed at the Union meeting on Monday was the possible use of > this tactic if it becomes necessary in the future. A lot depends on the > outcome of this meeting this weekend. > > I want to remind everyone that this is being videotaped (by me, as part of > my job at the College). The tape is owned by the College and anything said > can be used by the BOT as evidence in any court case. > > Sandy Coulter > Library Assistant / Serials /Audio-visuals / ILL > Antioch College Library > Yellow Springs, OH 45387-1694 > (937)769-1235 > scoulter@antioch-college.edu > > "Don't Fall Down! That's the whole key." > Joe Cali > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 22:29:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 22:29:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: <1ad5dc56c37a904bd0cb05b055826404@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: I wholeheartedly second this emotion. As Antiochians, we are inherently anti-authoritarian and getting us all to agree on something is not an easy task, but tearing each other apart or being condescending to one another easily distracts us from our goal of KEEPING THE COLLEGE OPEN SO WE HAVE THE BEST POSSIBLE CHANCE OF RENEWING AND REVIVING IT. Please stop using our valuable time, energy and public forums to snipe and demean. ALL OF US have got serious work to do here! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 22:30:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 22:30:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] The Antioch College news banner??? Message-ID: <18d8a6d01481b169d6a4078beca4a444@antiochians.org> Has anyone seen the official AC news banner? Looks like a bunch of images of Guantanamo Bay. What's with that? Why? Who's in control of that? http://www.antioch-college.edu/news/gnews/ From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 22:54:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 22:54:48 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anonymous Threats and Intimidation Tactics Message-ID: <6ab8d63dd978db9abaa0339a4bf37ffd@www.antiochians.org> Last night Rascal wrote: "Deb, a little off topic, but do you have any opinion regarding Kunichika Nakano, an apparent shareholder at Greenberg Traurig? A colleague is looking for someone she can refer a consultation to regarding the acquisition of a Japanese multinational. " Rascal then included a link to the firm bio of my boss at my workplace. Rascal has said some pretty nasty things to/about me on these chats but I have come to expect that. I think s/he is way out of line here by way of making this not-very-passive/aggressive threat to me. Rascal refuses to publicly identify her/himself. This is pathetic. I've been a long-standing supporter of the Antioch College. I've donated funds to the College most if not every year since I graduated in 1983. This past winter I donated a large amount of cash to set up the Joe Cali Don't Fall Down Memorial Fund in honor of Joe because I believed in him and what he stood for: intellectual curiousity, scholarship, humor, humanity, soul. I've been and continue to be quite committed to the College regardless of what anybody thinks. I've been honest on the forums. I've always signed my posts. Rascal, I believe it is time for you to identify yourself and if you refuse to do so, I think you should stop posting. Anonymous threats and intimidation tactics are what you're using and if you or anyone else thinks that's OK, you're just plain wrong and are tarnishing the image of everything Antioch is supposed to stand for. Deb '83 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 23:12:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 23:12:24 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is not a good idea. You are with us or you are against us, eh? I want everyone to feel free to post their differing opinions here. Critiques are welcome! Solutions too! I have both, but some may have one or neither. All please feel free to put in your ideas. Every idea and thought is most welcome to me. Especially since most of us are not in the select few who are "movers and shakers" in this operation. I am glad these individuals are happy with the way things are going and hope they save Antioch. I don't think this plan will work. Do you want me to shut up because of this? Hell some people who are angriest also have a lot of energy, and may have wonderful contributions to make. Jane Slater Class of '80 Ashland, OR From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 23:14:19 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 23:14:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Faculty Legal Information Fund donations In-Reply-To: <6005722a1a958f72fc7b750cc1c13df6@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Just checking to see if this idea to highlight the donations area and include the Faculty Legal Fund has been rejected outright or if it has just fallen off the radar since it's been over a week and nothing has changed on the website. Thanks. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Wed Aug 22 23:35:28 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Wed Aug 22 23:35:39 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Most of the time, I'm trying to make sense of new information, elaborate or provide information I might have. But a lot of time is also spent challenging negative trolls, Bob-bashers, student-bashers and outright liars who, if not confronted, would soon overwhelm this space and be the only voices -- the voices of the effort to keep the school open, which is the point of the antiochians.org board. Does that make sense? The Web is not polite, sorry. I think the mailbridge to the alumni-chat should never have been established. Most of the swill comes from that. Alan Benard From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 00:16:17 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jdwood (jdwood5000@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 00:16:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <525e295fc53a2cebff90137b051e3e38@antiochians.org> >This is not a good idea. You are with us or you are against us, eh? Hopefully the suggestion here is not that anyone is seeking to quell differing viewpoints. That's certainly not my intent. Active informed dialogue is absolutely crucial for this endeavor. Speaking for myself, I am merely saying that informationless personal attacks and demeaning, condescending language in what often become multiple (if not lengthy) posts at the very least take time to wade through, and I don't think many of us have a lot of spare time for that. Beyond that, such posts can be a real buzzkill too. Trolls and negativity-peddlers can be confronted best (IMHO) with honesty, intellectual rigor, assertiveness, a grain of salt and a sense of humor, which also happens to best serve our goal to keep Antioch open. Like the Honor Code above reads: "In order to fulfill our objectives, freedom must be matched by responsibility." From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 00:21:36 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Michael Casselli (dodioflo@mindspring.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 00:21:47 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <579e4a0856b8f57e67c9f8bca12079d9@www.antiochians.org> >This is not a good idea. You are with us or you are against us, eh? > >I want everyone to feel free to post their differing opinions here. Critiques are welcome! Solutions too! I have both, but some may have one or neither. > >All please feel free to put in your ideas. Every idea and thought is most welcome to me. Especially since most of us are not in the select few who are "movers and shakers" in this operation. I am glad these individuals are happy with the way things are going and hope they save Antioch. I don't think this plan will work. Do you want me to shut up because of this? > >Hell some people who are angriest also have a lot of energy, and may have wonderful contributions to make. > >Jane Slater >Class of '80 >Ashland, OR It's not of question of with or against it's a question of how inclusive we can be and TOLERATE dissention without attacking. You are a moderator this implies a role of impartiality-why pose the one against the other. Emotional engagement furthers nothing and who gives who the authority to decide? Putting ideas is the mortar on what we do-Difference of opinion fine-but without any kind of threatening posturing or allusion to shutting up an opposing idea. Your anger is null unless it furthers our cause. I am not suggesting no ideas but a mutual respect even if you disagree is essential to building our argument. Am I a mover or an opinion? Who decides? From Sistersara at aol.com Thu Aug 23 02:23:05 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 23 02:23:27 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend Message-ID: In a message dated 8/22/2007 9:29:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org writes: As Antiochians, we are inherently anti-authoritarian and getting us all to agree on something is not an easy task, but tearing each other apart or being condescending to one another easily distracts us from our goal of KEEPING THE COLLEGE OPEN SO WE HAVE THE BEST POSSIBLE CHANCE OF RENEWING AND REVIVING IT. Please stop using our valuable time, energy and public forums to snipe and demean. ALL OF US have got serious work to do here! You know some of us disagree with the "keep it open" as a sort of purity test matter. And we too are Antiochians of fairly long standing. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From scoulter at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 23 05:40:14 2007 From: scoulter at antioch-college.edu (Sandy Coulter) Date: Thu Aug 23 05:51:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] The Antioch College news banner??? In-Reply-To: <18d8a6d01481b169d6a4078beca4a444@antiochians.org> References: <18d8a6d01481b169d6a4078beca4a444@antiochians.org> Message-ID: That just went up because I was there earlier yesterday and it didn't look like that! Lynda Sirk is the person in charge of PR and I think she does the website also. Sandy Alumni Chat List on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 at 10:30 PM -0500 wrote: >Has anyone seen the official AC news banner? Looks like a bunch of >images of Guantanamo Bay. What's with that? Why? Who's in control of >that? > >http://www.antioch-college.edu/news/gnews/ > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From mfried at hancocklaw.com Thu Aug 23 08:58:32 2007 From: mfried at hancocklaw.com (Martin L. Fried) Date: Thu Aug 23 08:58:34 2007 Subject: FW: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn Message-ID: <6B1FFDA042870A4AB6B953289AF2BE2B025BC9B8@he-syr-mail2.hancocklaw.com> A recent posting to alumni chat suggested that I was a good friend of Art Zucker. The most that can be said about my relationship with Art is that we were members of the same class, as was another member of the Alumni Board, Mike Brower Martin Fried -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of YAZZ ALLEN Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:56 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn August 22, 07 Hi From Yazz Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com Here is information about the present do-nothing legal activity of the Antiocih Alumni Association Boarad "Legal Committee," presently headed by a close friend and fellow classmate (from the Antioch College class of 19550 of current Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman, North Carolina millionaire Arthur Zucker '55. The Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee" presently (Aug. 22, 07) has 2 projects. The first involves filing an application for tax exemption for College Revival Fund, Inc. This is being handled by Ken Sussman in New York with input from Rick Daily and Martin Fried '55. The second is the question of whether the alumni have any ability to bring a lawsuit at some time. Jason Fregeau, who is admitted to practice in Ohio, is the lead person on that. The possibility of a law suit directed against the Antioch University Board Of Trustees is described (by a current member of the Legal Committee) as "not on the top burner right now because we are trying to work out a nonlitigious solution to keeping the College open." To join the Legal Committee, please submit your name to legal@antiochians.org. It is possible that non-lawyers as well as lawyers may be admitted to the Antioch Alumni Association "Legal Committee." The head of the Antioch Alumni Association Board Legal Committee is a good friend and co-classmate of Arthur Zucker '55, present Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman, and leader of the effort to close down Antioch College completely in July 2008. Mr. Zucker's good friend, and fellow classmate from the Antioch College Class Of 1955 is named Martin Fried of Syracuse, NY USA, an attorney connected with the Hancock and Estabrook Law Firm located in Syracuse NY USA. The conflict of interest is obvious. The Antioch Alumni Association refuses to intitate legal action because of the close ties of the leader of the AU BOT (Mr. Zucker '55) and the leader of the Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee," which is the gatekeeper determing whether the Alumni Assn. will proceed with legal action against the AU BOT, or (as is the case presently) refuse and refrain from doing that while precious time passes. Information about Mr. Fried '55: Martin L. Fried, Of Counsel Practice AreasTax Trusts & Estates PHONE: (315) 471-3151 Ext. 393 FAX: (315) 471-3167 mfried@hancocklaw.com Mr. Fried's practice includes personal, corporate, real estate and estate taxation. He is the author of Taxation of Securities Transactions, a two-volume publication that is supplemented and revised semiannually, and numerous articles on taxation and trusts and estates. Mr. Fried is the Crandall Melvin Professor of Wills and Trusts Emeritus at Syracuse University College of Law, where he taught for 39 years. Mr. Fried has also taught at the University of Iowa, University of Cincinnati and Washington University. He is a member of the American Law Institute's Members Consultative Group for the Restatement (Third) of Property: Wills and Other Donative Transfers and for the Restatement (Third) of Trusts. Education New York University School of Law (LL.M. in Taxation) 1968 Columbia Law School (J.D.) 1958 Antioch College (B.A.) 1955 Admitted to Practice New York United States District Court (SDNY, EDNY) United States Court of Appeals (Second Circuit) United States Tax Court Professional Activities Onondaga County Bar Association Director, Onondaga County Bar Foundation New York State Bar Association American Bar Association American Law Institute Life Fellow, American Bar Foundation New York State Bar Association President's Committee on Access to Justice Board of Directors, Antioch College Alumni Born New York, New York --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... See my pro movie actors photos and recent credits by visiting WWW.IMDb.Com and inputting "Yazz Allen" in home page search box, then going to my home page for photos. On the photo page, hit IMDb RESUME box/icon for recent credits/ resume details. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From w420 at earthlink.net Thu Aug 23 09:05:50 2007 From: w420 at earthlink.net (Don Wallace) Date: Thu Aug 23 09:05:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: References: <014e01c7e4f1$1d786830$58693890$@net> Message-ID: <010801c7e586$55811610$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> I thank everyone who replied for the good and constructive comment. Laura Fathauser provided good insight as to the meaning of net income, J. David Coldren's comment makes total sense and Bob Devine is never too late to the discussion. I appreciated his comment on the endowment. If we are to avoid the mistakes of the past by learning from history, the comment drives us to look back at the time frame in which it was decided to monetize the deficit by converting the first $5,000,000 of the restricted Drey funds. That appears to be the time at which the alternative pathway suggested by Bob Devine of pushing yield from endowment funds could have been adopted. This would have left the Drey funds under restriction. Coming forward, Bob and JDC focus on the break-even point for numbers of students needed to push the college to the place where there would have been as Bob Devine says, "some seed corn." All in all, I liked Laura's question: "Or is it because, as reported by the Vice-chair of the board, and supported by the financial statements on The Antioch Papers, there is apparently $5mil in restricted gift obligations that can't be covered." That takes me right back to an earlier message by E. Daniel Ayres message in this thread of August 20th wherein he calls for "an honest and in-depth fiscal analysis of the whole Antioch University "system"......." Just the other day, somebody offered the "hindsight is always 20/20" mantra. Using that earlier time as a starting point, is there an alternative path defined for going forward to a point at which we have "some seed corn." Is this not the creative response to the reality spelled out by Art Dole, '46, in this thread? I would like to offer comment in more depth but I cannot this morning and I would like to see the discussion in this thread move forward. Don Wallace -----Original Message----- From: bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu) [mailto:alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:00 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... JDC wrote: But I think it raises an even more interesting question: when you divide the College's expenses by the number of FTE students what has been the cost/FTE student each year since your history begins in 2001-2002? Once we can tease those numbers out of financial reports that you clearly seem to have a good grasp of, we can have some idea how sustainable the College has been AND what it might take for sustainability in the future. If you have these numbers (which I hope the Trustees have somewhere), then I would like to see them. David, You've hit on the basic equation that was used, in part, to arrive at the famous (or infamous, if you dismiss the fact that we actually did achieve headcount above 800) "800 by 2000" slogan. Spreading fixed costs across "X" heads, when does the College become viable? I used to sermonize about 600 students supporting 200 staff and faculty being an unsustainable dynamic. With 1,000 students, the cost/FTE obviously goes down. At 600-650 students there's never any money for capital projects, and there's never any seed corn; the College consumes all of its revenue and lives off the capital. Bob From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 23 09:16:28 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 23 09:27:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh Gerry!! I love your passion but we need to polish you up just a tad. Your harsh language might turn potential allies off. You will always get a hug from me cuz I know your heart is good...but man...your aggressive speech is an impediment. Please don't be so Bello-cose. and remember your bello-gerance can thwart your good goals. If you clean your act up a little....the odds are you will get further along..... >From a fellow slow learner Duffy From dlbahr at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 10:03:51 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:04:17 2007 Subject: FW: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn In-Reply-To: <6B1FFDA042870A4AB6B953289AF2BE2B025BC9B8@he-syr-mail2.hancocklaw.com> Message-ID: Dear Martin Fried: Thank you for setting the record straight. Your efforts on Antioch Alumni Board legal committee and in any advisory role you are contributing are appreciated by this Antiochian. Sincerely, Lesley A. Pownall Bahr '83 >From: "Martin L. Fried" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: >Subject: FW: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:58:32 -0400 > > A recent posting to alumni chat suggested that I was a good friend of >Art Zucker. The most that can be said about my relationship with Art is >that we were members of the same class, as was another member of the >Alumni Board, Mike Brower > >Martin Fried >-----Original Message----- >From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >[mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of YAZZ ALLEN >Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:56 PM >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Do-Nothing Legal Program of Antioch Alumni Assn > >August 22, 07 > > Hi From Yazz Allen! > Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com > > Here is information about the present do-nothing legal activity of the >Antiocih Alumni Association Boarad "Legal Committee," presently headed >by a >close friend and fellow classmate (from the Antioch College class of >19550 >of current Antioch University Board Of Trustees Chairman, North Carolina >millionaire Arthur Zucker '55. > > > The Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee" presently (Aug. >22, >07) has 2 projects. > > The first involves filing an application for tax exemption for College >Revival Fund, Inc. This is being handled by Ken Sussman in New York >with >input from Rick Daily and Martin Fried '55. > > The second is the question of whether the alumni have any ability to >bring >a lawsuit at some time. > > Jason Fregeau, who is admitted to practice in Ohio, is the lead person >on >that. > > The possibility of a law suit directed against the Antioch University >Board Of Trustees is described (by a current member of the Legal >Committee) >as "not on the top burner right now because we are trying to work out a >nonlitigious solution to keeping the College open." > > To join the Legal Committee, please submit your name to >legal@antiochians.org. > > It is possible that non-lawyers as well as lawyers may be admitted to >the >Antioch Alumni Association "Legal Committee." > > The head of the Antioch Alumni Association Board Legal Committee is a >good >friend and co-classmate of Arthur Zucker '55, present Antioch University >Board Of Trustees Chairman, and leader of the effort to close down >Antioch >College completely in July 2008. > > Mr. Zucker's good friend, and fellow classmate from the Antioch >College >Class Of 1955 is named Martin Fried of Syracuse, NY USA, an attorney >connected with the Hancock and Estabrook Law Firm located in Syracuse NY >USA. > > The conflict of interest is obvious. > > The Antioch Alumni Association refuses to intitate legal action >because of >the close ties of the leader of the AU BOT (Mr. Zucker '55) and the >leader >of the Antioch Alumni Association Board "Legal Committee," which is the >gatekeeper determing whether the Alumni Assn. will proceed with legal >action >against the AU BOT, or (as is the case presently) refuse and refrain >from >doing that while precious time passes. > > Information about Mr. Fried '55: > > Martin L. Fried, Of Counsel Practice AreasTax >Trusts & Estates > > PHONE: (315) 471-3151 Ext. 393 FAX: (315) 471-3167 >mfried@hancocklaw.com > > Mr. Fried's practice includes personal, corporate, real estate and >estate >taxation. He is the author of Taxation of Securities Transactions, a >two-volume publication that is supplemented and revised semiannually, >and >numerous articles on taxation and trusts and estates. Mr. Fried is the >Crandall Melvin Professor of Wills and Trusts Emeritus at Syracuse >University College of Law, where he taught for 39 years. Mr. Fried has >also >taught at the University of Iowa, University of Cincinnati and >Washington >University. He is a member of the American Law Institute's Members >Consultative Group for the Restatement (Third) of Property: Wills and >Other >Donative Transfers and for the Restatement (Third) of Trusts. > Education > New York University School of Law (LL.M. in Taxation) 1968 > Columbia Law School (J.D.) 1958 > Antioch College (B.A.) 1955 > Admitted to Practice > New York > United States District Court (SDNY, EDNY) > United States Court of Appeals (Second Circuit) > United States Tax Court > Professional Activities > Onondaga County Bar Association > Director, Onondaga County Bar Foundation > New York State Bar Association > American Bar Association > American Law Institute > Life Fellow, American Bar Foundation > New York State Bar Association President's Committee on Access to >Justice > > Board of Directors, Antioch College Alumni > Born > New York, New York > > > > > > --------------------- > Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to >644 >Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... > See my pro movie actors photos and recent credits by visiting >WWW.IMDb.Com >and inputting "Yazz Allen" in home page search box, then going to my >home >page for photos. On the photo page, hit IMDb RESUME box/icon for recent >credits/ resume details. > > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can >change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- >Margaret >Mead (1901 - 1978) > > > >--------------------------------- >Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who >knows. >Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From jdavid at coldren.net Thu Aug 23 10:19:16 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:21:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <010801c7e586$55811610$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> References: <014e01c7e4f1$1d786830$58693890$@net> <010801c7e586$55811610$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <023e01c7e590$96e30460$c4a90d20$@net> Ye gads! A consensus may be developing after all. But a couple of issues need more clarity for me: First, I can find no definitive statement as to Leo Drey's instructions for the $10 million other than that the gift was restricted. If, as some have argued, it was strictly to help with the Renewal Commission's implementation--a sort of "Hail Mary attempt--then the endowment issue seems like a distraction to our current quest because the funds were used for current operations as may have been intended. It's an entirely different story if his gift was meant for the Endowment. But I suspect it's more complicated than that and this list will probably never find out what his precise intentions/instructions were. And how they may have been modified and by whom. Second, I think we CAN address the issue that Bob Devine and I discussed: the break-even issue of total operating expenses for the College divided by the total FTE students for each year 2001 through 2006. But ONLY if we have the numbers. Can somebody divine them from the current financial statements we have? I've tried and failed because the results I get are totally outlandish; in the neighborhood of $160,000/FTE. That just can't be right! Can anybody help with the numbers? Laura? Bob? J. David Coldren '65 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 10:32:28 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:32:50 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <023e01c7e590$96e30460$c4a90d20$@net> Message-ID: for this year I get 61,000 per fte. "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "J. David Coldren" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "'Alumni Chat List'" >Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:19:16 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc9-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 23 >Aug 2007 07:21:16 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id CF365612F623;Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:21:31 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from mailrelay2.localweb.com >(mailrelay1.localweb.com[206.223.65.18])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with >SMTP id CA5E6612F602for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 >10:21:29 -0400 (EDT) >Received: (qmail 15702 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2007 14:21:12 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO coldren.net) (66.179.9.106)by >mailrelay2.localweb.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2007 14:21:12 -0000 >Received: from JDCDesktop [71.239.244.13] by coldren.net with >ESMTP(SMTPD32-8.13) id A81B84050098; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:22:19 -0400 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAX+6rA0tGWHRNupZFhh1m6rt73Flccvoa1ziegSsTSQwF3831BPgR99edAAqoQgmXUHoJcaLDQ8ug== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >References: ><014e01c7e4f1$1d786830$58693890$@net> <010801c7e586$55811610$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 >Thread-Index: AcfldHq9aSIXdm6zTm274dFCWZbxlgADBHSAAANx0YA= >Content-Language: en-us >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Aug 2007 14:21:16.0862 (UTC) >FILETIME=[DE28DDE0:01C7E590] > >Ye gads! A consensus may be developing after all. > >But a couple of issues need more clarity for me: > >First, I can find no definitive statement as to Leo Drey's instructions for >the $10 million other than that the gift was restricted. If, as some have >argued, it was strictly to help with the Renewal Commission's >implementation--a sort of "Hail Mary attempt--then the endowment issue >seems >like a distraction to our current quest because the funds were used for >current operations as may have been intended. It's an entirely different >story if his gift was meant for the Endowment. But I suspect it's more >complicated than that and this list will probably never find out what his >precise intentions/instructions were. And how they may have been modified >and by whom. > >Second, I think we CAN address the issue that Bob Devine and I discussed: >the break-even issue of total operating expenses for the College divided by >the total FTE students for each year 2001 through 2006. But ONLY if we have >the numbers. Can somebody divine them from the current financial statements >we have? I've tried and failed because the results I get are totally >outlandish; in the neighborhood of $160,000/FTE. That just can't be right! > >Can anybody help with the numbers? Laura? Bob? > > >J. David Coldren '65 > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline From pas0705 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 10:35:50 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:36:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <023e01c7e590$96e30460$c4a90d20$@net> Message-ID: <693890.75365.qm@web63908.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- "J. David Coldren" wrote: >But I > suspect it's more > complicated than that and this list will probably > never find out what his > precise intentions/instructions were. And how they > may have been modified > and by whom. We know that it was a donation for the "implementation of the renewal curriculum", and was part of the Capital Campaign. We know that there was an intent by the BoT & the UA (university administration) to approach him about redirecting it this year and next year. We even know there were at least two board resolutions that approved releasing the funds to cover the deficits. > Second, I think we CAN address the issue that Bob > Devine and I discussed: > the break-even issue of total operating expenses for > the College divided by > the total FTE students for each year 2001 through > 2006. There are a variety of numbers in a variety of spaces- haven't compiled that specific set of data yet. I have a few other things I'm working on- if I get a chance over the weekend I'll try to compile that data set. -l ____________________________________________________________________________________ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 10:39:49 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:40:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92eec14a6b66c9c183241b646761e282@www.antiochians.org> looking at it a different way... dividing the current budget (roughly 18 mill) by the proposed tutition under the AB business plan (28K) I get 642. which is our break even student body size. >for this year I get 61,000 per fte. > >"We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about >that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the >stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the >prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We >carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." >----Durruti > > > > > >>From: "J. David Coldren" >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >>To: "'Alumni Chat List'" >>Subject: RE: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... >>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:19:16 -0500 >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >>bay0-mc9-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 23 >>Aug 2007 07:21:16 -0700 >>Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >>(Postfix) with ESMTP id CF365612F623;Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:21:31 -0400 (EDT) >>Received: from mailrelay2.localweb.com >>(mailrelay1.localweb.com[206.223.65.18])by w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with >>SMTP id CA5E6612F602for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 >>10:21:29 -0400 (EDT) >>Received: (qmail 15702 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2007 14:21:12 -0000 >>Received: from unknown (HELO coldren.net) (66.179.9.106)by >>mailrelay2.localweb.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2007 14:21:12 -0000 >>Received: from JDCDesktop [71.239.244.13] by coldren.net with >>ESMTP(SMTPD32-8.13) id A81B84050098; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:22:19 -0400 >>X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >>X-Message-Info: >>m0MZ22IVDAX+6rA0tGWHRNupZFhh1m6rt73Flccvoa1ziegSsTSQwF3831BPgR99edAAqoQgmXUHoJcaLDQ8ug== >>X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>References: >><014e01c7e4f1$1d786830$58693890$@net> <010801c7e586$55811610$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> >>X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 >>Thread-Index: AcfldHq9aSIXdm6zTm274dFCWZbxlgADBHSAAANx0YA= >>Content-Language: en-us >>X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >>Precedence: list >>List-Id: Alumni Chat List >>List-Unsubscribe: >>, >>List-Archive: >>List-Post: >>List-Help: >>List-Subscribe: >>, >>Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >>Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Aug 2007 14:21:16.0862 (UTC) >>FILETIME=[DE28DDE0:01C7E590] >> >>Ye gads! A consensus may be developing after all. >> >>But a couple of issues need more clarity for me: >> >>First, I can find no definitive statement as to Leo Drey's instructions for >>the $10 million other than that the gift was restricted. If, as some have >>argued, it was strictly to help with the Renewal Commission's >>implementation--a sort of "Hail Mary attempt--then the endowment issue >>seems >>like a distraction to our current quest because the funds were used for >>current operations as may have been intended. It's an entirely different >>story if his gift was meant for the Endowment. But I suspect it's more >>complicated than that and this list will probably never find out what his >>precise intentions/instructions were. And how they may have been modified >>and by whom. >> >>Second, I think we CAN address the issue that Bob Devine and I discussed: >>the break-even issue of total operating expenses for the College divided by >>the total FTE students for each year 2001 through 2006. But ONLY if we have >>the numbers. Can somebody divine them from the current financial statements >>we have? I've tried and failed because the results I get are totally >>outlandish; in the neighborhood of $160,000/FTE. That just can't be right! >> >>Can anybody help with the numbers? Laura? Bob? >> >> >>J. David Coldren '65 >_________________________________________________________________ >Messenger Caf? ? open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. >Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline From pas0705 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 10:55:17 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:55:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <92eec14a6b66c9c183241b646761e282@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <781323.80138.qm@web63904.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Is that street price, without tuition discounts? Bob- endowment scholarship funds 'released from restriction' show up under that line, correct? So 'net tuition' isn't taking into account endowment scholarship funds provided? -l --- "Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)" wrote: > looking at it a different way... dividing the > current budget (roughly 18 mill) by the proposed > tuition under the AB business plan (28K) I get 642. > which is our break even student body size. > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 10:57:06 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:57:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >You know some of us disagree with the "keep it open" as a sort of purity >test matter. And we too are Antiochians of fairly long standing. That is the purpose of Antiochians.org. Again, I regret that the mail bridge once again gives you the opportunity to take pot-shots and make snotty inferences about "purity tests" on this site. You are wrong and the college must remain open, or it will die. We will not let you replace it with Antioch University Yellow Springs. Alan Benard From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 23 10:47:53 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 23 10:59:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] semiotix 101 Message-ID: Well, y'all, there are signs and there are signs. Throughout the Village of YS merchants are hanging large and colorfu lbanners.."Be ashamed to let it die" or "Save Antioch College". An increasing number of lawns in town also have small blue and white signs "Save Antioch Now" (they only cost $4.......and post a weblink antiochfaculty.org. the best one is opposite the new building at Campus west.....and right now they are building the sign to their new entrance of McGregor as well.....and planting lots of ornamental grasses by their moat. And eventhough it may hit 98 degrees today....some trees are waxing yellow and dropping leaves and students are arriving...both old and new....signs of fall.... and here are other signs for you about what makes a good cohesive Community...a Community that will be hard to replicate In the afternoon mail I received an envelope with $5 in it...saying use this during the stakeholder event.. for gas or lunch or anything else...our monetarily empoverished community also has running through it many random tiny acts of kindness. IMHO If we had more money in the system we would eventually thrive.....and less external interference..... Of course I immediately called the person who sent me the $5..and she said....Gosh..I have been busy working on orientation.... So, after said Thanks... I asked... well, "How many freshman?" The answer....it had been 68 but we were just told to make four extra packets .... This made me laugh..hmm 72...that's more than we got after the curriculum change in its first year. When I told my colleagues at the library and oters ....just about everyone laughed and said....Maybe we should close more often. The year we only got 65 was the result from tremendous external meddling......maybe well intentioned but done in an inappropriate series of sequences. and then one last sign... many of us had received an email about the stakeholders meeting...which ended by suggesting that all the women wear slacks. probably because we would all be sitting in chairs in a big circle...... I thought of it as a "No dress-code" and although I found it a little strange didn't think a whole lot about it. Turns out that many women who have read this (and folks do forward stuff y'know) have gotten somewhat riled up. I tried playing Devil's advocate......saying "there y'go, it's that toxic culture thing" and then I was enlightened by whom I truly know to be an intelligent person. First I was told that folks felt the reminder to be "dismissive" (I may have to check the dictionary for its meaning).... and folks all over have been joking about it but also somewhat chagrined....finally the last sign .... a student at a meeting yesterday was wearing a pair of short-shorts (the heat index today is 100 or so) and on the inside of their thigh was a sign in ink using the old vitruvian A Be Ashamed! almnost like a tatoo! LOL Some humor still amongst anxiety and all the commotion. Thanks to everyone for helping in the ways that you can....the college institution, i.e. the larger one, which includes decades ofyour collective legacies is worth fixin' End chat...stream of conversation...ruff grammar..... If you don't hear from me for a few weeks..you will know that it is because the world is beginning again here.. and many of us are happy to see fresh and kinda fresh faces...and happy nto be busy Duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 11:10:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (hopeless (debra_good@yahoo.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 11:10:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1e8a85d598eac6dac7ad389f90d0f3b8@www.antiochians.org> Alan, If you know anything about Sally from reading this chat, you'd know she has the best intentions for Antioch, as do I. Regret the bridge or not, it exists. Since you are posting from Antiochians.org, I imagine you have had the opportunity to read the honor code posted prominently at the top of the forums page. Time to live up to it! Best of luck with that, Deb >>You know some of us disagree with the "keep it open" as a sort of purity >>test matter. And we too are Antiochians of fairly long standing. >That is the purpose of Antiochians.org. Again, I regret that the mail bridge once again gives you the opportunity to take pot-shots and make snotty inferences about "purity tests" on this site. > >You are wrong and the college must remain open, or it will die. We will not let you replace it with Antioch University Yellow Springs. > >Alan Benard From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 11:54:42 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 11:54:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: <1e8a85d598eac6dac7ad389f90d0f3b8@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <16421d42ecbbecf3140b6a429c5d1690@antiochians.org> >Alan, > >If you know anything about Sally from reading this chat, you'd know she has the best intentions for Antioch, as do I. Regret the bridge or not, it exists. > >Since you are posting from Antiochians.org, I imagine you have had the opportunity to read the honor code posted prominently at the top of the forums page. Time to live up to it! > >Best of luck with that, >Deb Another post rich with irony from the slander queen. Alan From dawn at mediawonk.com Thu Aug 23 12:32:39 2007 From: dawn at mediawonk.com (Dawn Scribner) Date: Thu Aug 23 12:33:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch Faculty Legal Information Fund donations Message-ID: Someone wrote... "Just checking to see if this idea to highlight the donations area and include the Faculty Legal Fund has been rejected outright or if it has just fallen off the radar since it's been over a week and nothing has changed on the website." You are not the only one who has raised this and I would LOVE to see it happen too! The Alumni Board did issue a statement in support of the faculty right after they filed the lawsuit but- direct linkage to their fund has not being approved for legal reasons. Apparently we need to be careful not to violate the terms of our 501c standing (the 'not for profit' status of the revival fund,) and therefore a strict division between the two funds, (including directing folks to them,) needs to be made. It doesn't make sense to me but then I didn't go to law school so, please be patient while the lawyers explain what we must do to protect the funds we are raising. The last thing we want is for the University to end up with the money because we didn't cross our t's. I have emailed someone on the AB Legal committee to get an explanation (in English,) of what the legal parameters are around this issue. As soon as I get an answer--I'll pass it along so everyone knows. In Solidarity, Dawn '83 From dlbahr at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 12:44:17 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Thu Aug 23 12:44:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From: "alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:57:06 -0500 > > > >You know some of us disagree with the "keep it open" as a sort of purity > >test matter. And we too are Antiochians of fairly long standing. >That is the purpose of Antiochians.org. Again, I regret that the mail >bridge once again gives you the opportunity to take pot-shots and make >snotty inferences about "purity tests" on this site. > >You are wrong and the college must remain open, or it will die. We will not >let you replace it with Antioch University Yellow Springs. > >Alan Benard > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 12:49:22 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (taisie (taisie@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 12:49:37 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Solidarity going into this weekend In-Reply-To: <525e295fc53a2cebff90137b051e3e38@antiochians.org> Message-ID: >>This is not a good idea. You are with us or you are against us, eh? >Trolls and negativity-peddlers can be confronted best (IMHO) with honesty, intellectual rigor, assertiveness, a grain of salt and a sense of humor, which also happens to best serve our goal to keep Antioch open. > >Like the Honor Code above reads: "In order to fulfill our objectives, freedom must be matched by responsibility." Oh gosh, amen. I'll mention further that trolls, if they really are trolls and not folks with honest dissent, thrive on challenge. That's the point of being a troll, where a forum is a game rather than a discussion. It makes me fearful when I see some graduated Antiochians here saying things that would've gotten them roundly buttkicked if this were Pulse. And by buttkicked, I mean in the civil, moderated, but intolerent of sheer bile kind of way. Folks who have a voice on this forum, especially a loud and consistent one, should recognise the responsibility they've got to the Antiochians who can't or don't. There's a whole lot of the latter. From aadole at adelphia.net Thu Aug 23 16:02:02 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Thu Aug 23 13:02:23 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <001701c7e4c9$141ea2e0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> Message-ID: On 8/22/07 7:31 AM, "Don Wallace" wrote: > Have you folks looked at the financial pages on the Antioch Leaked Papers > website. I am not a financial person and do not pretend to have expertise > in matters relating to budgets but those papers appear to highlight many of > the concerns you are expressing nicely. Here is some of what I observe from > my review of those pages. > > 1. Much of the loss for which Antioch University seeks to put Antioch > College down is "loss" of discounted tuition. It is projected to be over > $4,000,000 dollars in the year Antioch University chooses to close Antioch > College, Fiscal Year 2008-2009. This "loss" is not so much a loss to > Antioch as a "loss" of revenue to Antioch University. May we call this a > paper loss? > > 2. The other large "loss" was a "subsidy from overhead" of $740,000. I take > that to be University overhead. Likely, this item includes the salaries of > the Antioch University Chancellor, some of the staff engaged in putting > Antioch College down and their offices--many on the Antioch College campus > in the Fels and Kettering buildings. Are paper losses being used by Antioch > University to justify closing Antioch College? > > 3. It is apparent that Antioch University is not doing so well financially. > As a whole, it even appears to be tailing off slightly in attendance over > the past five years. This tailing off does not include the loss of > enrollment at Antioch College. > > 4. In each of the last two operating years before Antioch College is > closed, the budgets project that $5,000,000 is released from the > restrictions of the Drey fund, clearly a restricted fund listed under > Antioch College. Could it be that paper "losses" were generated to justify > withdrawing $5,000,000 a year for each of two years from Antioch College > restricted funds? If the $10,000,000 is covering paper "losses," where did > the $10,000,000 in funds really go? To Antioch University coffers for > distribution to other elements of the University? > > 5. Antioch's endowment was over $30,000,000 as of March, 2007. Were the > Drey funds intended to be another $10,000,000 added to the endowment? > > 6. As of March, 2007, the value of the Antioch College endowment is listed > as just over $30,000,000. Antioch College's endowment of over $30,000,000 > was well over 90% of Antioch University's endowment of just over > $32,000,000. > > 7. Endowment yields typically run as high as 5% and may run as high as 10%. > The financials make it appear the Antioch College endowment fund yields > something in this range. Think of the impact of an annual yield of 5-10% > yield from an established Antioch College endowment of just over > $30,000,000. That would be $1,500,000 to $3,000,000 annually. Without the > paper "losses" and the "subsidy from overhead" charges, Antioch College > would be operating reasonably close to a break even basis. Rather than > $1,500,000 to $3,000,000, Antioch College is credited with only $150,000 > from endowment income. Is this the basis for the $5,000,000 "flap" about > which we read in the early days after the decision to close Antioch College > was made? From newspaper reports it was never clear exactly what had > happened. I would like to hear more about this. > > 8. Where did the $5,000,000 go in each of the last two years of Antioch > College's operation? About a month ago, Art Zucker, President of the > Antioch University Board of Trustees, standing beside a nodding Toni > Murdoch, Antioch University's Chancellor, told the Yellow Springs Village > Council meeting that were Antioch University to lose another $5,000,000 > through the operation of Antioch College, the entire Antioch University > might have to be placed in the hands of creditors. He might have said, or > maybe he did say Antioch College would go into bankruptcy if it lost another > $5,000,000. We farmers call that going "belly up." Could Mr. Zucker not > have said just as easily, "We would have gone belly up if we had not taken > that $5,000,000 last year." > > 9. Putting Mr. Zucker's words together with the apparent conversion of > $10,000,000 from the Drey fund, it may just be that Antioch College's > restricted and endowment funds are the only thing separating Antioch > University from bankruptcy. If so, little wonder, Chancellor Murdoch, to > now, insists that Antioch College must be closed after the 2007-2008 > operating year. Antioch University may need to liquidate (cannibalize) > Antioch College's assets to avoid bankruptcy. > > 10. And what of Antioch College's assets--the Glen Helen, the Corretta > Scott King Center WYSO, campus land. Just liquidate them to help pay down > listed Antioch University debt. Is that not likely? Is that not what we are > hearing from Chancellor Murdoch? Is that not what we are seeing? You know > there is a problem. Thank goodness for the Faculty filing to stop this > planned degradation of Antioch College. > > 11. The Antioch Alumni have a proven ability to raise funds. In less than > three months, the Alumni are reported to have raised over $6,000,000. Maybe > the question to be posed to the Antioch University Board of Trustees should > not relate to what the Alumni may do to keep the College open but what may > Antioch College Alumni do to help Antioch University Board of Trustees keep > the University from going bankrupt. Again, farmers like me might ask, "What > can we do to keep the University from going "belly up". > > 12. Would an independent audit of Antioch University's finances be the > place to start? > > Before closing, I note that I am an elected member of the Antioch Alumni > Board. I, also, note that I have used no information received from members > of the Alumni Board and consulted with no Board member. Also, in no way do > I represent the Alumni Board nor know of any related, non-public information > currently in the hands of the Alumni Board bearing on what I offer above. > It is simply me reflecting on what I've seen and heard in and around Yellow > Springs in the past several weeks and gathered from the public places on the > Internet. > > I am an Antioch graduate and a retired physician. I do live on a farm, the > family farm on which I was born and raised about 12 miles from Yellow > Springs. > > Don Wallace > Antioch College > Class of 1960 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com) > [mailto:alumni-chat_forum@antiochians.org] > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:54 AM > To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... > > >> Here's my simplistic theory about " Non-profit University" with six far >> flung branches. It's a semi-fraud. For-profit universities like Phoenix are >> big business. By using part-time untenured instructors (employees rather >> costly independent scholars) and the latest technology, they can offer very >> inexpensive degrees to a mass market of employed adults living at home. > They >> sell stock and pay taxes. >> Tax exemption because of a prestigious logo gives the alleged >> Non-profit U. an extra advantage over Phoenix. This unusual university >> (hardly comparable to Princeton or Stanford) can afford to pay its >> "presidents" (who would be deans under the thumb of higher administration > in >> a traditional university) well if they follow orders. One branch, once >> independent, but still with tenured faculty, an effective program, and a >> national reputation, but with "difficult" able late adolescent residential >> students, is expensive and expendable. "Let's put it in the deep freeze for >> four years." Then it can be "reinvented" as a money maker. Non Profit U. >> will still have the same name and reputation but with pliable part-time >> instructors and complacent mature customers who are scattered all over the >> country. >> >> In the business world this happens all the time. Your friendly local > grocery >> is suddenly a branch of Hannafords, located in Belgium.. >> >> If you as alumni/faculty/staff/students/parents/ community accept this >> analysis, how do you respond creatively and effectively? >> >> Art Dole '46 > Art, thank you very, very much for writing that. > > Alan > > > > > > Don--Your financial analysis is very helpful. It seems to me that if Antioch College were independent, a prudent approach would be to base next year's budget on this year's income. Also set aside a reserve fund from profitable years as a buffer against unprofitable ones. But I'm no accountant. Art From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 13:16:19 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 13:16:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] semiotix 101 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6eab7ebe041611e697492e0a840a76b7@www.antiochians.org> Ahhh, Duffy, one of our entrepreneurial Chicago alums, Beth Gutelius '00, spent a bit of her money to seed a temporary tattoo fund. We were selling them for a dollar at the Chicago gathering, which had a few current students....You may be seeing more of these in the future. They're amazing. From pas0705 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 13:24:01 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Thu Aug 23 13:24:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <484722.90933.qm@web63905.mail.re1.yahoo.com> >It seems to me that if Antioch College were independent, > a prudent approach would be to base next year's >budget on this year's income. Also set aside a reserve >fund from profitable years as a buffer against >unprofitable ones. But I'm no accountant. The University's policy is to have a reserve fund, but with the chronic depreciation-induced College deficits since 01, the College has never been able to set that money aside. According to what the University Administration claims about its own accounting practices, the satellite campus reserve funds are what they use to fund the 'un-allowed' deficits at the college. -l ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 From davidallenusa at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 14:29:52 2007 From: davidallenusa at yahoo.com (YAZZ ALLEN) Date: Thu Aug 23 14:30:11 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: <20070823140418.D8319612F57B@w3.antioch.edu> Message-ID: <718973.3521.qm@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> August 23, 07 Hello from Yazz Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com Mr. Martin Fried '55 of the Antioch Alumni Assn. Legal Committee sent me a protest message regarding my post about him and Arthur Zucker '55 on the Antioch Chatline yesterday. Here is my reply to him, FYI: ---------------------------------- August 23, 07 Dear Mr. Fried, Thank you for your email message. l respect you and am VERY impressed by your credentials and life history, which I made a big point of posting as part of the writing I did which included you. My first duty in the present situation is to Antioch College, and to keeping Antioch College open without interuption. The decision to close down Antioch is disasterous, and the damage already done simply by the announcement and steps taken by the AU BOT is enormous......as it was intended to be. The people who executed the closedown attack indeed thought out a Pearl Harbor "no notice, maximum destruction as soon as possible" strategy. My opinion is that the forces, clearly led by Mr. Arthur Zucker '55, who intend to close down Antioch College in July 2008 will win. They face no serious or well organized opposition, and voices like mine protesting the failure of alumni to get serious about fighting and defeating those who would destroy Antioch College by closing it down in July 2008 are few and ignored. Initial reaction to my most recent post is quite typical. Those who dominate the various website, chatlines devoted to Antioch have clearly accepted the "fate" (which I do not believe needs to be accepted and which I believe is NOT inevitable) of Antioch as a "done deal." I have tried to bring talents I have (as your talents are legal) into this fight. I have talents a gifted publicist (I spent 10 years doing major public relations for major organizations) and as a person well experienced in dramatics (I am a pro movie actor......first movie acted at Antioch 1963 on a co-op job in Chicago...played "Jesus In Chicago" in an Antioch student film screened later in Kelly Hall in YSO). My goal is to keep Antioch College open without interuption past July 2008, to dispute and overturn the AU BOT decision to do that. My way of at least keeping this goal alive and not ignored (increasingly the case in public, cyberspace communications by Antiochians) is act dramatically and in a manner which attracts attention...this is the goal of publicity. Mr. Zucker '55, who really is a villain in my opinion, was made for that role. He looks like it, acts like, talks like it...... I've cast him as the main villain here. In the recent post I did which included you and your name, I did something I accept and realize is rather desperate....I took a tax attorney (the dullest possible catagory of lawyer) and suggested conspsiracy. Maybe it's true and maybe it isn't, but it IS dramatic, and it DID get people's attention. This what I wanted, what I believe is needed to REVIVE talk of disputing the AU BOT closedown decision, rather than accepting it meekly (which is the present trend, sadly). People are at least talking, communicating, about the subject, and the fact that major player in the present drama may include bad guys. I don't think you've incurred serious (or any) damage. You are not helping Antioch College stay alive, but most people part of the cyberspace outlets who read what I wrote are ALSO not helping to keep Antioch alive....that accounts for the fact many have come to your defense, and objected to the fact your honor was "stained" (which it wasn't). You are being praised now in far-flung places like Michigan City, Indiana (J. David Coldren '65) as a "Lawyer who clearly knows his business." Mr. Coldren doesn't know that tax lawyers know little about the law outside of the tax law specialty, that the field of law itself is vast, and most lawyers know little outside their specialty. It is unlikely the present Legal Committee has a single heavy weight lawyer capable of reviewing Case Law on the subject of non-profit organization Trustees guilty of malfeasance and removed by law and courts for that. Not hard to do, ironically. A quick database search of Lexus and Nexus by a skilled, computer saavey lawyer with some energy and brains could do that. The sleepy "Legal Committee" Antioch Alumni Assn. operation you run probably lacks the sort of legal talent needed to put some fire into the effort to keep Antioch College open, and also has NO ambition to seek out lawyers better (for this task) than they are. Sir, I have no doubt you are a big star in the estate and trust and tax areas of law and legal scholarship, service, and courtroom accomplishment. But that's not what Antioch College needs right now. It needs legal do-ers. That is not you or your minions part of the present (August 2007) Antioch College Alumni Association. Feel free to use any of this communication in any way you see fit. I am, as I've stated, a bit believer in the power of publicity, and Antioch College (which school I love and am trying desperately, if inadequately, to defend and keep alive, open without interuption) needs publicity showing that not every alumnus has abandoned the conclusion that legal action is the best way to keep Antioch College alive and open. I don't think you are doing the right thing, but I don't hate you for that. Honest mistake. I'm willing to accept that, but I'm not willing to accept where your honest mistakes are taking Antioch College....to it's grave. Sincerely, Yazz Allen --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... See my pro movie actors photos and recent credits by visiting WWW.IMDb.Com and inputting "Yazz Allen" in home page search box, then going to my home page for photos. On the photo page, hit IMDb RESUME box/icon for recent credits/ resume details. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. From mfried at hancocklaw.com Thu Aug 23 14:34:11 2007 From: mfried at hancocklaw.com (Martin L. Fried) Date: Thu Aug 23 14:34:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: <718973.3521.qm@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6B1FFDA042870A4AB6B953289AF2BE2B025BCA91@he-syr-mail2.hancocklaw.com> What is interesting is that Yazz failed to include my message to him that stated that the only thing that connects Art Zucker to me is the fact that we graduated in the same year. -----Original Message----- From: YAZZ ALLEN [mailto:davidallenusa@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:30 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. August 23, 07 Hello from Yazz Allen! Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com Mr. Martin Fried '55 of the Antioch Alumni Assn. Legal Committee sent me a protest message regarding my post about him and Arthur Zucker '55 on the Antioch Chatline yesterday. Here is my reply to him, FYI: ---------------------------------- August 23, 07 Dear Mr. Fried, Thank you for your email message. l respect you and am VERY impressed by your credentials and life history, which I made a big point of posting as part of the writing I did which included you. My first duty in the present situation is to Antioch College, and to keeping Antioch College open without interuption. The decision to close down Antioch is disasterous, and the damage already done simply by the announcement and steps taken by the AU BOT is enormous......as it was intended to be. The people who executed the closedown attack indeed thought out a Pearl Harbor "no notice, maximum destruction as soon as possible" strategy. My opinion is that the forces, clearly led by Mr. Arthur Zucker '55, who intend to close down Antioch College in July 2008 will win. They face no serious or well organized opposition, and voices like mine protesting the failure of alumni to get serious about fighting and defeating those who would destroy Antioch College by closing it down in July 2008 are few and ignored. Initial reaction to my most recent post is quite typical. Those who dominate the various website, chatlines devoted to Antioch have clearly accepted the "fate" (which I do not believe needs to be accepted and which I believe is NOT inevitable) of Antioch as a "done deal." I have tried to bring talents I have (as your talents are legal) into this fight. I have talents a gifted publicist (I spent 10 years doing major public relations for major organizations) and as a person well experienced in dramatics (I am a pro movie actor......first movie acted at Antioch 1963 on a co-op job in Chicago...played "Jesus In Chicago" in an Antioch student film screened later in Kelly Hall in YSO). My goal is to keep Antioch College open without interuption past July 2008, to dispute and overturn the AU BOT decision to do that. My way of at least keeping this goal alive and not ignored (increasingly the case in public, cyberspace communications by Antiochians) is act dramatically and in a manner which attracts attention...this is the goal of publicity. Mr. Zucker '55, who really is a villain in my opinion, was made for that role. He looks like it, acts like, talks like it...... I've cast him as the main villain here. In the recent post I did which included you and your name, I did something I accept and realize is rather desperate....I took a tax attorney (the dullest possible catagory of lawyer) and suggested conspsiracy. Maybe it's true and maybe it isn't, but it IS dramatic, and it DID get people's attention. This what I wanted, what I believe is needed to REVIVE talk of disputing the AU BOT closedown decision, rather than accepting it meekly (which is the present trend, sadly). People are at least talking, communicating, about the subject, and the fact that major player in the present drama may include bad guys. I don't think you've incurred serious (or any) damage. You are not helping Antioch College stay alive, but most people part of the cyberspace outlets who read what I wrote are ALSO not helping to keep Antioch alive....that accounts for the fact many have come to your defense, and objected to the fact your honor was "stained" (which it wasn't). You are being praised now in far-flung places like Michigan City, Indiana (J. David Coldren '65) as a "Lawyer who clearly knows his business." Mr. Coldren doesn't know that tax lawyers know little about the law outside of the tax law specialty, that the field of law itself is vast, and most lawyers know little outside their specialty. It is unlikely the present Legal Committee has a single heavy weight lawyer capable of reviewing Case Law on the subject of non-profit organization Trustees guilty of malfeasance and removed by law and courts for that. Not hard to do, ironically. A quick database search of Lexus and Nexus by a skilled, computer saavey lawyer with some energy and brains could do that. The sleepy "Legal Committee" Antioch Alumni Assn. operation you run probably lacks the sort of legal talent needed to put some fire into the effort to keep Antioch College open, and also has NO ambition to seek out lawyers better (for this task) than they are. Sir, I have no doubt you are a big star in the estate and trust and tax areas of law and legal scholarship, service, and courtroom accomplishment. But that's not what Antioch College needs right now. It needs legal do-ers. That is not you or your minions part of the present (August 2007) Antioch College Alumni Association. Feel free to use any of this communication in any way you see fit. I am, as I've stated, a bit believer in the power of publicity, and Antioch College (which school I love and am trying desperately, if inadequately, to defend and keep alive, open without interuption) needs publicity showing that not every alumnus has abandoned the conclusion that legal action is the best way to keep Antioch College alive and open. I don't think you are doing the right thing, but I don't hate you for that. Honest mistake. I'm willing to accept that, but I'm not willing to accept where your honest mistakes are taking Antioch College....to it's grave. Sincerely, Yazz Allen --------------------- Contact Yazz Allen directly via email at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com, mail to 644 Shrewsbury Commons Ave., #239, Shrewsbury PA USA 17361... See my pro movie actors photos and recent credits by visiting WWW.IMDb.Com and inputting "Yazz Allen" in home page search box, then going to my home page for photos. On the photo page, hit IMDb RESUME box/icon for recent credits/ resume details. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead (1901 - 1978) --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Thu Aug 23 14:29:06 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Thu Aug 23 14:40:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: coverage in Yellow Springs News Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:06:00 PM Pulse From: Linda Sattem Subject: coverage in Yellow Springs News To: Announcements Pulse College Staff Hi! Students are arriving and I may not have many chances to post the coverage. I encourage everyone to regularly check the Dayton Daily News and Yellow Springs News. Also The Record is back! Go to www.recordonline.org Check out this and a companion piece (about the lawsuit) Take care! http://www.ysnews.com/stories/2007/08/081607_confidential.html Confidential plan for Antioch calls for fewer faculty, no tenure By Diane Chiddister At the June meeting when the Antioch University Board of Trustees declared a state of financial exigency for Antioch College and voted to close the college, the trustees were given, among other documents, one labeled ?confidential.? The document presented two scenarios for the future of Antioch: first, the closing of the college altogether in 2008 and second, the 2008 suspension of operations with a timeline leading to a reopening several years later. The document describes a re-opened Antioch which reflects, in some ways, the worst fears of current Antioch College faculty: the reopened Antioch would have far fewer full-time faculty, adjuncts as needed and no opportunity for tenure. The New Antioch Undergraduate Program, or NAUP, would open in September, 2011 with 300 freshman and 15 total core faculty, according to the document, which the News recently obtained. The seven-page document, dated May 31, 2007, is ?a roadmap for the orderly suspension of operations at Antioch College,? the document states. ?As in all plans, it is not perfect and should be modified as deemed necessary to implement it in a manner that is in the best interests of the University as a whole and to individuals directly impacted by the decisions.? In an interview this week, Antioch University spokesperson Mary Lou LaPierre said the confidential document was ?drafted in the chancellor?s office? and edited by the university leadership team. However, according to LaPierre, the plan was ?just a skeleton, a draft of a concept.? Scenario 1: Permanent closure In this scenario, effective July 1, 2008, Glen Helen and the AEA (Antioch Education Abroad) program staff and their operations ?would be transferred to the University and operated as self-sustaining programs under the direction of the Chancellor or her designate. The reduced library and registrar office staff will also report to the Chancellor or her designate.? According to the document, all records retention projects would be transferred to the University, and a small staff would remain for a specific periods to ?assist in the closure of the College and to preserve the facility.? These employees would include a ?basic? administrative group, a grounds crew, a building maintenance crew, heating plant staffing and limited security personnel. Funding for this scenario ?would include the cash reserves of the University,? according to the document. ?Antioch?s non-residential campuses may be asked to assist in the funding of the closure and related costs. Other funding options will be explored in the transition year prior to the closing, including the sale of some College assets.? The chancellor would appoint a commission, which would include members of the board, the university leadership group, college alumni and consultants ?to determine the long-term closure arrangements such as transcript services and sale of assets.? Scenario 2: Re-opening The goal of Scenario 2, according to the document, is to ?create a vibrant and innovative undergraduate program for 1,000 to 1,200 students based on the core Antioch mission.? The vision for Scenario 2 includes a lifelong learning center and the partnering with a development company ?to increase the density of the current campus and open remaining areas up for building affordable faculty and retiree housing.? The plan calls for a unification of Antioch University McGregor and the college, under the direction of the chancellor, and also includes the building of a conference center along with ?shared services with the community for public performance center, art studio, wellness center, library and open spaces.? According to the document, the planning for NAUP begins in July and August, 2007, when the chancellor and senior university management ?meets with Village leaders to explore land development company options and design the urban village concept of a lifelong learning center and facilities of the College.? All ?staff not essential to the one-year phase-out operation (admissions)? would be laid off in August 2007, according to the document, and staff in other offices would be significantly reduced. Plans for NAUP would continue in September 2007, with the selection of a design and development commission, composed of several trustees, the chancellor, college president, alumni, McGregor president and village representatives ?to create the future campus and fundraising plans.? The plan to ?mothball? campus facilities and maintain the grounds would be developed during winter 2008, at which point WYSO would be moved to Campus West. The chancellor, CFO and university leadership team would ?create a plan to repay the restricted funds obligations? to present to the board at its February meeting. Also in the winter of 2008, the board would approve a new governance model for the university, and identify and engage a land development company, according to the document. In June 2008, all remaining college employees would be laid off except a ?skeleton crew? which would be maintained for the library, development office, public relations, registrar and curriculum design team. Other college functions needed by students would be moved to McGregor or university offices, the document states. If a land development company has been ?engaged,? at this point, according to the plan, the board would approve a detailed three-year plan to open the new college and approve a charge to an academic design team (ADT) to report to the chancellor. The ADT would consist of five academics ?that will lead the design process for the new residential undergraduate program.? However, if the land development company has not been engaged, the college would move toward permanent closure at this time. Extensive use of focus groups If the board moves ahead to reopen the college, it will in July 2008 announce a $50 million ?Campaign for a New Antioch Undergraduate Program? with 50 percent of the goal already committed by the board, several key donors and the development corporation, according to the plan. At this point, a new university governance system would be implemented, the board would select an interim president of Antioch University Yellow Springs, and a Yellow Springs Board of Trustees would be created. In September 2008 through February 2009, the ADT would conduct focus groups ?to harvest ideas for a 21st century, innovative liberal arts undergraduate program,? the plan states. From March through June 2009, the ADT would organize focus group results into ?alternative scenarios in key areas such as curriculum, learning outcomes, pedagogy, technology, community engagement and residence life.? In July and August 2009, research consultants would design ?market survey instruments and focus group methodology to test the alternative scenarios with internal (ULC and selected board members) and external constituencies, including groups of parents, high school students, and high school teachers.? Based on the research data, the ADT in December 2009 would make the ?final design decisions (based on expert opinion and research data) for the New Antioch Undergraduate Program.? The design would include a curriculum outline for four-year programs of study. In January through August 2010 searches would be conducted for the ?first eight permanent core faculty (no tenure) to start September 2010.? The board would give final approvel to the ADT recommendations at its June 2010 meeting, the plan states. In summer 2010, the admissions staff for the college would be hired, and in August, the ADT would be disbanded. >From July 2010 to April 2011, the first freshman class for NAUP will be recruited, with ?significant international recruitment efforts.? From September 2010 to May 2011, the core faculty would create ?detailed curriculum in the selected fields of study.? In September 2010, the university would advertise for a new Antioch University Yellow Springs president, according to the plan. During January 2011 through June 2011, the integration of NAUP and McGregor would be complete. Also during that time, seven additional core faculty would be hired to start in September 2011, making 15 core faculty. ?Associate faculty and adjuncts are hired as needed,? according to the plan. In July 2011, the new president would take office and would be given the year ?to build his/her team in regards to academic leadership, CFO, admissions, development and students services while interns hold positions.? In September 2011, Antioch University Yellow Springs would open its new residential undergraduate program with 300 freshmen, according to the document. Contact: dchiddister@ysnews.com Linda Lee Sattem, Ph.D., PCC/S Director, Counseling and Wellness Center Antioch College 795 Livermore St. Yellow Springs OH 45387-1697 (937) 769-1129 direct (937) 769-1130 Center (937) 769-1125 fax E-mail is not a secure form of communication, and precautions need to be taken to protect all confidential information. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 14:58:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 14:59:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: <6B1FFDA042870A4AB6B953289AF2BE2B025BCA91@he-syr-mail2.hancocklaw.com> Message-ID: You can't really blame Yazz Allen. He's from the toxic 60's. :p Skooter >What is interesting is that Yazz failed to include my message to him >that stated that the only thing that connects Art Zucker to me is the >fact that we graduated in the same year. > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: YAZZ ALLEN [mailto:davidallenusa@yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:30 PM >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. > > > >August 23, 07 > >Hello from Yazz Allen! >Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com From dlbahr at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 15:17:59 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Thu Aug 23 15:18:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well obviously any one who showed up in 1979 must have been brain dead. Guskin hadn't started on his spiffing up the campus infrastructure. Birenbaum was off in NY with a glazed look in his eye. Faculty weren't getting paid and many left. Many of our friends left. What were we thinking? I don't even think we get credit for being toxic or radical (even when we quoted Emma Goldman). However, IMHO the commencement of 1983 was one of the best--at least when it came to student speeches. I still remember those WPAF planes flying over while Eric Bates was making a key point. By the way, did I hear correctly that Eric is an editor for Rolling Stone? I also remember so much great art and theatre on our near collapse campus. Every generation seems to have its toxic and its stellar qualities. As well as those looking for conspiracies lurking around every corner. This can happen when an institution (or a nation?) looses its autonomy and a teaching faculty looses its ownership of a campus. Gotta go to work Lesley A. Pownall Bahr. >From: "skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:58:43 -0500 > >You can't really blame Yazz Allen. He's from the toxic 60's. :p > > >Skooter > > > >What is interesting is that Yazz failed to include my message to him > >that stated that the only thing that connects Art Zucker to me is the > >fact that we graduated in the same year. > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: YAZZ ALLEN [mailto:davidallenusa@yahoo.com] > >Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:30 PM > >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. > > > > > > > >August 23, 07 > > > >Hello from Yazz Allen! > >Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see trouble…before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 15:27:05 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 15:27:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <65ebd7c14959702a585cc918b145cce0@antiochians.org> Eric Bates ?83 is Assistant Managing Editor of Rolling Stone. He is the former Investigative Editor of Mother Jones and the former Editor-in-Chief of Southern Exposure, the region?s leading political journal. His work as an editor and reporter has received many of journalism?s top honors, including two National Magazine Awards, the Thurgood Marshall Award, two Sidney Hillman Awards for reporting on economic injustice, and the Pope Journalism Award for investigative work committed to fostering social change. He'll be one of the three former Trustees attending this weekend's stakeholder meeting! Callie >Well obviously any one who showed up in 1979 must have been brain dead. >Guskin hadn't started on his spiffing up the campus infrastructure. >Birenbaum was off in NY with a glazed look in his eye. Faculty weren't >getting paid and many left. Many of our friends left. What were we >thinking? I don't even think we get credit for being toxic or radical (even >when we quoted Emma Goldman). However, IMHO the commencement of 1983 was >one of the best--at least when it came to student speeches. I still >remember those WPAF planes flying over while Eric Bates was making a key >point. By the way, did I hear correctly that Eric is an editor for Rolling >Stone? I also remember so much great art and theatre on our near collapse >campus. Every generation seems to have its toxic and its stellar qualities. >As well as those looking for conspiracies lurking around every corner. >This can happen when an institution (or a nation?) looses its autonomy and a >teaching faculty looses its ownership of a campus. > >Gotta go to work >Lesley A. Pownall Bahr. > > >>From: "skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)" >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. >>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:58:43 -0500 >> >>You can't really blame Yazz Allen. He's from the toxic 60's. :p >> >> >>Skooter >> >> >>>What is interesting is that Yazz failed to include my message to him >>>that stated that the only thing that connects Art Zucker to me is the >>>fact that we graduated in the same year. >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: YAZZ ALLEN [mailto:davidallenusa@yahoo.com] >>>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:30 PM >>>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >>>Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. >>> >>> >>> >>>August 23, 07 >>> >>>Hello from Yazz Allen! >>>Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com >> >_________________________________________________________________ >Now you can see trouble before he arrives >http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 From aadole at adelphia.net Thu Aug 23 16:10:40 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Thu Aug 23 15:37:55 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: <837016.97148.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/22/07 7:32 AM, "Laura Fathauer" wrote: > Its not the Trustees who have written off the alumni. > Its the University Administration. The financial > statements were prepared by the University > Administration. The case for closing the college was > prepared by the University Administration. The > Chancellor led ULC in creating a plan for an > undergraduate residential program called Antioch > College "in name only". The University Administration > is the one responsible for presenting the "doom and > gloom" financial projection that neatly ignored the > Board's pledge of financial support for the renewal > plan. > > -l > >> Good! I wonder whether the Chancellor led ULC is blind or conveniently wearing blinders? My wife stopped giving the day AIF died. I cut the amount sharply thereafter. How many are there who give little or don't donate at all because of AU? From robinsimons at yahoo.com Thu Aug 23 15:37:58 2007 From: robinsimons at yahoo.com (Robin Simons) Date: Thu Aug 23 15:38:18 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: <65ebd7c14959702a585cc918b145cce0@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <163818.12867.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> did we ever get a list of who the stakeholders are? Robin --- "ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)" wrote: > Eric Bates ?83 is Assistant Managing Editor of > Rolling Stone. He is the former Investigative Editor > of Mother Jones and the former Editor-in-Chief of > Southern Exposure, the region?s leading political > journal. His work as an editor and reporter has > received many of journalism?s top honors, including > two National Magazine Awards, the Thurgood Marshall > Award, two Sidney Hillman Awards for reporting on > economic injustice, and the Pope Journalism Award > for investigative work committed to fostering social > change. > > He'll be one of the three former Trustees attending > this weekend's stakeholder meeting! > > Callie > > >Well obviously any one who showed up in 1979 must > have been brain dead. > >Guskin hadn't started on his spiffing up the campus > infrastructure. > >Birenbaum was off in NY with a glazed look in his > eye. Faculty weren't > >getting paid and many left. Many of our friends > left. What were we > >thinking? I don't even think we get credit for > being toxic or radical (even > >when we quoted Emma Goldman). However, IMHO the > commencement of 1983 was > >one of the best--at least when it came to student > speeches. I still > >remember those WPAF planes flying over while Eric > Bates was making a key > >point. By the way, did I hear correctly that Eric > is an editor for Rolling > >Stone? I also remember so much great art and > theatre on our near collapse > >campus. Every generation seems to have its toxic > and its stellar qualities. > >As well as those looking for conspiracies lurking > around every corner. > >This can happen when an institution (or a nation?) > looses its autonomy and a > >teaching faculty looses its ownership of a campus. > > > >Gotta go to work > >Lesley A. Pownall Bahr. > > > > > >>From: "skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)" > > >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List > > >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What > we need and what we have. > >>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:58:43 -0500 > >> > >>You can't really blame Yazz Allen. He's from the > toxic 60's. :p > >> > >> > >>Skooter > >> > >> > >>>What is interesting is that Yazz failed to > include my message to him > >>>that stated that the only thing that connects Art > Zucker to me is the > >>>fact that we graduated in the same year. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: YAZZ ALLEN [mailto:davidallenusa@yahoo.com] > >>>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:30 PM > >>>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>>Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we > need and what we have. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>August 23, 07 > >>> > >>>Hello from Yazz Allen! > >>>Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com > >> > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Now you can see trouble before he arrives > >http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 > > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ From afrye at bitwisesystems.com Thu Aug 23 16:54:13 2007 From: afrye at bitwisesystems.com (Ann Frye) Date: Thu Aug 23 16:55:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46CDF3F5.6030407@bitwisesystems.com> Art Dole wrote: >On 8/22/07 7:32 AM, "Laura Fathauer" wrote: > > > >>Its not the Trustees who have written off the alumni. >>Its the University Administration. The financial >>statements were prepared by the University >>Administration. The case for closing the college was >>prepared by the University Administration. The >>Chancellor led ULC in creating a plan for an >>undergraduate residential program called Antioch >>College "in name only". The University Administration >>is the one responsible for presenting the "doom and >>gloom" financial projection that neatly ignored the >>Board's pledge of financial support for the renewal >>plan. >> >>-l >> >> >> >>>Good! I wonder whether the Chancellor led ULC is blind or conveniently >>> >>> >wearing blinders? My wife stopped giving the day AIF died. I cut the amount >sharply thereafter. How many are there who give little or don't donate at all >because of AU? > > > Well, being poor I never had much to give, but I sure quit trying as soon as it was AU. Ann From ilse1 at comcast.net Thu Aug 23 17:33:49 2007 From: ilse1 at comcast.net (ilse1@comcast.net) Date: Thu Aug 23 17:34:10 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders Message-ID: <082320072133.1763.46CDFD3C000F1564000006E32216554886CE0A9C0407@comcast.net> On Saturday, August 11, I received a letter dated July 23 inviting me as a "stakeholder" to participate. I was rushing to catch a plane from Sarasota to Portland Oregon and did not have time to read the letter carefully. I only noted that it said at the end that the decision to close the college would not be reversed. I thought I tucked the letter into my suitcase, but on arrival I could not find it. I have only intermittent access to my e-mail and so have been unable to respond. In any case, I was mightily offended by the last-minute offer - if that is what it was. It seemed I was being invited to listen to a whitewash and applaud, much as the leaders of southern Africa recently cheered and applauded Mugabe. No thanks. We must continue to press for Antioch College, a residential undergraduate school in Yellow Springs with tenured faculty, and the traditional programs and values of Antioch College. Ilse Moon '53 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Robin Simons > did we ever get a list of who the stakeholders are? > > Robin > > --- "ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)" > wrote: > > > Eric Bates ’83 is Assistant Managing Editor of > > Rolling Stone. He is the former Investigative Editor > > of Mother Jones and the former Editor-in-Chief of > > Southern Exposure, the region’s leading political > > journal. His work as an editor and reporter has > > received many of journalism’s top honors, including > > two National Magazine Awards, the Thurgood Marshall > > Award, two Sidney Hillman Awards for reporting on > > economic injustice, and the Pope Journalism Award > > for investigative work committed to fostering social > > change. > > > > He'll be one of the three former Trustees attending > > this weekend's stakeholder meeting! > > > > Callie > > > > >Well obviously any one who showed up in 1979 must > > have been brain dead. > > >Guskin hadn't started on his spiffing up the campus > > infrastructure. > > >Birenbaum was off in NY with a glazed look in his > > eye. Faculty weren't > > >getting paid and many left. Many of our friends > > left. What were we > > >thinking? I don't even think we get credit for > > being toxic or radical (even > > >when we quoted Emma Goldman). However, IMHO the > > commencement of 1983 was > > >one of the best--at least when it came to student > > speeches. I still > > >remember those WPAF planes flying over while Eric > > Bates was making a key > > >point. By the way, did I hear correctly that Eric > > is an editor for Rolling > > >Stone? I also remember so much great art and > > theatre on our near collapse > > >campus. Every generation seems to have its toxic > > and its stellar qualities. > > >As well as those looking for conspiracies lurking > > around every corner. > > >This can happen when an institution (or a nation?) > > looses its autonomy and a > > >teaching faculty looses its ownership of a campus. > > > > > >Gotta go to work > > >Lesley A. Pownall Bahr. > > > > > > > > >>From: "skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)" > > > > >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List > > > > >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > > >>Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What > > we need and what we have. > > >>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:58:43 -0500 > > >> > > >>You can't really blame Yazz Allen. He's from the > > toxic 60's. :p > > >> > > >> > > >>Skooter > > >> > > >> > > >>>What is interesting is that Yazz failed to > > include my message to him > > >>>that stated that the only thing that connects Art > > Zucker to me is the > > >>>fact that we graduated in the same year. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>-----Original Message----- > > >>>From: YAZZ ALLEN [mailto:davidallenusa@yahoo.com] > > >>>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:30 PM > > >>>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > > >>>Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we > > need and what we have. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>August 23, 07 > > >>> > > >>>Hello from Yazz Allen! > > >>>Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com > > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Now you can see trouble…before he arrives > > > >http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alumni-chat mailing list > > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play > Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > http://sims.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 17:50:44 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 17:51:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <082320072133.1763.46CDFD3C000F1564000006E32216554886CE0A9C0407@comcast.net> Message-ID: <66a1a292f2994b0d5994fa14786ce222@antiochians.org> >On Saturday, August 11, I received a letter dated July 23 inviting me as a "stakeholder" to participate. I was rushing to catch a plane from Sarasota to >Portland Oregon and did not have time to read the letter carefully. I only noted that it said at the end that the decision to close the college would not >be reversed. I thought I tucked the letter into my suitcase, but on arrival I could not find it. I have only intermittent access to my e-mail and so have been unable to respond. In any case, I was mightily offended by the last-minute offer - if that is what it was. It seemed I was being invited to listen to a whitewash and applaud, much as the leaders of southern Africa recently cheered and applauded Mugabe. No thanks. > >We must continue to press for Antioch College, a residential undergraduate school in Yellow Springs with tenured faculty, and the traditional programs and values of Antioch College. > >Ilse Moon '53 **applause** From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 17:54:08 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 23 17:54:33 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <66a1a292f2994b0d5994fa14786ce222@antiochians.org> Message-ID: 2nded "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:50:44 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc3-f4.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 23 >Aug 2007 14:50:43 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id C7BFD6130F5D;Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:51:00 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEC66130F50for >; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:50:58 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IOKZg-00013e-Ipfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:50:44 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >U2wzkPk8/ja5u2DZVyL/r4UQHAIOtoZnKWWjxLCrhkIkrhzWA0ZmbK++rNAECa+zqii89TZeS+0jjjzvHx+Z4g== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Aug 2007 21:50:43.0854 (UTC) >FILETIME=[A7BD4AE0:01C7E5CF] > > > >On Saturday, August 11, I received a letter dated July 23 inviting me as >a "stakeholder" to participate. I was rushing to catch a plane from >Sarasota to > >Portland Oregon and did not have time to read the letter carefully. I >only noted that it said at the end that the decision to close the college >would not > >be reversed. I thought I tucked the letter into my suitcase, but on >arrival I could not find it. I have only intermittent access to my e-mail >and so have been unable to respond. In any case, I was mightily offended >by the last-minute offer - if that is what it was. It seemed I was being >invited to listen to a whitewash and applaud, much as the leaders of >southern Africa recently cheered and applauded Mugabe. No thanks. > > > >We must continue to press for Antioch College, a residential >undergraduate school in Yellow Springs with tenured faculty, and the >traditional programs and values of Antioch College. > > > >Ilse Moon '53 >**applause** > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see trouble…before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 18:06:12 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 18:06:28 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0da2e13d6655c5dac372cf549ef05f6d@antiochians.org> Word up, yo! Everything about this meeting is turning into an insulting slap in the face. From gerrybello at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 18:13:53 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Thu Aug 23 18:14:19 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <0da2e13d6655c5dac372cf549ef05f6d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: If you had my perspective on it you would be een more pissed off "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)" > >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:06:12 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc11-f7.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, >23 Aug 2007 15:06:12 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 4327A613107A;Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:06:29 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1067C613105Bfor >; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:06:27 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IOKof-0001gn-0zfor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:06:13 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAWyYv8as/4JHPk56rV5N2a2Z9RFd+uae9W2K9h+C0gy5q/6I+3fjZlOA+vaxjHZVqHRPQ/b7tbxpA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Aug 2007 22:06:12.0542 (UTC) >FILETIME=[D147D5E0:01C7E5D1] > >Word up, yo! >Everything about this meeting is turning into an insulting slap in the >face. > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see trouble…before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 From lirazel at theworld.com Thu Aug 23 18:19:03 2007 From: lirazel at theworld.com (Lauren Page) Date: Thu Aug 23 18:19:29 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003001c7e5d3$9d888ae0$2f01a8c0@laurenndb40xz6> >>Well obviously any one who showed up in 1979 must have been brain dead. << Lesely, I did you one better--I showed up the Fall semester after the second strike in 1973. And I have never, ever regretted it. (Come to think of it, I might have known you... I was a PF in Mills in 1976 and just living there in 1977.) Lauren Hassol Page, '77 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Thu Aug 23 19:32:43 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)) Date: Thu Aug 23 19:32:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: <837016.97148.qm@web63901.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8b0a1098ffa833b09f08be2d514b1b53@www.antiochians.org> Hi, Laura, I very much appreciate your contributions to the discussion. >Its not the Trustees who have written off the alumni. Its the University Administration. The financial statements were prepared by the University Administration. The case for closing the college was prepared by the University Administration. The Chancellor led ULC in creating a plan for an undergraduate residential program called AntiochCollege "in name only". The University Administration is the one responsible for presenting the "doom and gloom" financial projection that neatly ignored the Board's pledge of financial support for the renewal plan. >-l I understand the distinction you're making, but I'm not sure why you think it's significant. (Well, actually, I can think of some reasons, but it's only uninformed speculation.) Am I naive in believing that the University Administration is accoutable to the Trustees? I feel like you're being somewhat circumspect. If you can connect the dots for me without being indiscrete, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, carry on, I'll figure it out. John Hevelin '68 From dlbahr at hotmail.com Thu Aug 23 23:38:31 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Thu Aug 23 23:38:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. In-Reply-To: <65ebd7c14959702a585cc918b145cce0@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Thanks for the update on Eric, Callie. I am glad to hear he will be attendance this weekend. >From: "ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. >Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:27:05 -0500 > >Eric Bates ’83 is Assistant Managing Editor of Rolling Stone. He is the >former Investigative Editor of Mother Jones and the former Editor-in-Chief >of Southern Exposure, the region’s leading political journal. His work as >an editor and reporter has received many of journalism’s top honors, >including two National Magazine Awards, the Thurgood Marshall Award, two >Sidney Hillman Awards for reporting on economic injustice, and the Pope >Journalism Award for investigative work committed to fostering social >change. > >He'll be one of the three former Trustees attending this weekend's >stakeholder meeting! > >Callie > > >Well obviously any one who showed up in 1979 must have been brain dead. > >Guskin hadn't started on his spiffing up the campus infrastructure. > >Birenbaum was off in NY with a glazed look in his eye. Faculty weren't > >getting paid and many left. Many of our friends left. What were we > >thinking? I don't even think we get credit for being toxic or radical >(even > >when we quoted Emma Goldman). However, IMHO the commencement of 1983 was > >one of the best--at least when it came to student speeches. I still > >remember those WPAF planes flying over while Eric Bates was making a key > >point. By the way, did I hear correctly that Eric is an editor for >Rolling > >Stone? I also remember so much great art and theatre on our near >collapse > >campus. Every generation seems to have its toxic and its stellar >qualities. > >As well as those looking for conspiracies lurking around every corner. > >This can happen when an institution (or a nation?) looses its autonomy >and a > >teaching faculty looses its ownership of a campus. > > > >Gotta go to work > >Lesley A. Pownall Bahr. > > > > > >>From: "skooter (skooter3@gmail.com)" > >>Reply-To: Alumni Chat List > >>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we >have. > >>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:58:43 -0500 > >> > >>You can't really blame Yazz Allen. He's from the toxic 60's. :p > >> > >> > >>Skooter > >> > >> > >>>What is interesting is that Yazz failed to include my message to him > >>>that stated that the only thing that connects Art Zucker to me is the > >>>fact that we graduated in the same year. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: YAZZ ALLEN [mailto:davidallenusa@yahoo.com] > >>>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:30 PM > >>>To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > >>>Subject: [Alumni-chat] Anitoch Lawyers: What we need and what we have. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>August 23, 07 > >>> > >>>Hello from Yazz Allen! > >>>Contact me directly at YazzAllen@Yahoo.Com > >> > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Now you can see trouble…before he arrives > >http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 > > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 00:08:17 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu)) Date: Fri Aug 24 00:08:32 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <023e01c7e590$96e30460$c4a90d20$@net> Message-ID: <67052ebd968fba15278209d34cd8bc6a@www.antiochians.org> JDC wrote: First, I can find no definitive statement as to Leo Drey's instructions for the $10 million other than that the gift was restricted. If, as some have argued, it was strictly to help with the Renewal Commission's implementation--a sort of "Hail Mary attempt--then the endowment issue seems like a distraction to our current quest because the funds were used for current operations as may have been intended. It's an entirely different story if his gift was meant for the Endowment. But I suspect it's more complicated than that and this list will probably never find out what his precise intentions/instructions were. And how they may have been modified and by whom. David, Leo's $10m gift was given in June of 2001, and I worked with him regarding the purposes of his gift. Though the University (at least Glenn Watts) wanted it to be unrestricted, I persuaded Leo that it ought to be allocated to endowed financial aid since unfunded aid consistently provides the most significant pressure to the operating budget. He specified the gift as endowed financial aid in July of 2001. At that time (beginning of fiscal 2001-2002) the endowment jumped from $19m to $29m. Though I don't know the specifics, my understanding (and it seems to be supported in the Board minutes that Laura has assembled) is that Board, University and College representatives visited Leo and Kay several years ago to ask that the gift be redirected to operating funds, in support of the implementation of the Renewal Plan. Since portions of that gift are noted in the University's version of the College budget, I have to assume that Leo assented. At the time (2006) there was talk of the College having received another $10 million -- though it would have been the same gift given in 2001. My guess is that strong endowment earnings helped to replace the Drey gift and move the endowment back to the $30 million range. Your other question I have to work on a bit. Bob From Sistersara at aol.com Fri Aug 24 02:04:20 2007 From: Sistersara at aol.com (Sistersara@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 24 02:04:52 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... Message-ID: In a message dated 8/23/2007 12:03:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, aadole@adelphia.net writes: 12. Would an independent audit of Antioch University's finances be the > place to start? > > Before closing, I note that I am an elected member of the Antioch Alumni > Board. I, also, note that I have used no information received from members > of the Alumni Board and consulted with no Board member. Also, in no way do > I represent the Alumni Board nor know of any related, non-public information > currently in the hands of the Alumni Board bearing on what I offer above. > It is simply me reflecting on what I've seen and heard in and around Yellow > Springs in the past several weeks and gathered from the public places on the > Internet. > > I am an Antioch graduate and a retired physician. I do live on a farm, the > family farm on which I was born and raised about 12 miles from Yellow > Springs. An Independent Forensic Audit is absolutely the place to start. What is the difference between a regular CPA certified Audit and a Forensic one -- a Forensic Audit also evaluates decisions about financial matters and about other matters that have financial consequences. Intent of decisions, actual consequences of decisions, distance between desired goals and real outcomes. It is the kind of audit generally done in response to a shareholder suit regarding mis or failed management. So yes Don Wallace, please use your position on the Alumni Board to advocate for this. I served on that board for six years between 1988 and 1994, and I don't consider anything I learned during that service to be secret or confidential, except that when I learned something beyond a formal presentation at a meeting -- for instance talking with YSO folk who knew something about College matters, or a faculty member, or another alumni on or off the board, I believe something like "source protection" is in order, particularly because so many people told me they didn't want their name linked with this or that. Antioch operates under more layers of secrecy than the CIA -- and games trying to achieve some sort of power by holding on to information that could easily be public -- or sticking it to people who form an opinion, and discuss it openly, is one of the things that is killing the place. You are on the alumni board because you were elected by other alumni -- you represent them, and they have a right to know not only what you have learned (again respecting sources) but what you have done about what you know or have learned. There are simply no reasons for the proceedings of the Alumni Board to be considered confidential or secret. Let me give you an example what I mean. I was part of a small group in my Congressional District last year to participate in the decision to select Keith Ellison to run for our very safe seat in Congress. He was the right age -- we want someone who can stick around and get seniority. He is an African American, and we thought we would be better off as a majority Norwegian District, electing someone who could function in the Black Caucus as well as collaborate with Norwegians. Finally he is a Muslim -- and we thought that Congress needed a real Muslim who could speak with a degree of sophistication on what Islam was all about, and who could, as he recently did, go to Iraq and participate in goat and rice feasts with some of the religious and community leaders. Pray with them, and then try to explain the American Political Realities. But we expect him to come back to the district and tell us what he learned, how he interprets it all, and how his representation of us has produced knowledge we ought to factor into our opinions. Yes, we expect that he will carefully shield some of the people he talked with -- but we expect the key information to be laid out for us properly and in a timely way. Antioch Alumni Board members have no obligations for confidentiality or secrecy beyond this. You represent all of us, and to debate with any degree of reality, we need carefully yet honestly stated information. I tend to agree with your analysis of the Endowment. I think it is the responsibility of the Alumni Board to get to the truth of the matter, and report what you find. If the endowment is 30 million, and invested at let's say 6% which would be low over the past few years -- straight up income on endowment ought to be $180 thousand at a minimum. Wall Street after all has been asking media and newspapers to return 20% on investment by stockholders. I am not suggesting that rate of return, but I am suggesting something about where the range is or recently has been. I think it needs close examination. Something else -- in the outline of the decision to close posted today, and perhaps make re-opening dependent on acquiring a real-estate developer in 2008, I feel fairly certain no one who made that recommendation knew in advance that the bottom would begin falling out of Real Estate this summer, and developers are now selling off inventory at a 20% price cut with a free pool thrown in to the mix, and virtually no money of any merit is now flowing into this sector. When recovery will arrive, who knows, but to make a future Antioch dependent on that market is both stupid and the product of a very narrow vision and mind. Can we hope that the Alumni Association will strongly challenge this? About as stupid as making the college dependent on the revival of the bubblegum market. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From timothynoble at gmail.com Fri Aug 24 02:47:37 2007 From: timothynoble at gmail.com (Tim Noble) Date: Fri Aug 24 02:48:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] The Antioch Papers invites you to "Know Your BOT" Message-ID: KYBOT is your resource guide for getting to know the voting members of the 2007/08 Antioch University Board of Trustees in advance of this weekend's meeting at the cincinnati airport. it is available in handy pdf format at: http://theantiochpapers.org/document/17/know-your-board-of-trustees please forward widely From jdavid at coldren.net Fri Aug 24 09:26:43 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Fri Aug 24 09:28:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <67052ebd968fba15278209d34cd8bc6a@www.antiochians.org> References: <023e01c7e590$96e30460$c4a90d20$@net> <67052ebd968fba15278209d34cd8bc6a@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <009b01c7e652$6a460930$3ed21b90$@net> Bob, Thanks for the explanation. I had assumed a slightly more complicated scenario, but I'm relieved that it seems as clear as you make it. I just love financial black boxes! J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of bdevine (bdevine@antioch-college.edu) Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:08 PM To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... JDC wrote: First, I can find no definitive statement as to Leo Drey's instructions for the $10 million other than that the gift was restricted. If, as some have argued, it was strictly to help with the Renewal Commission's implementation--a sort of "Hail Mary attempt--then the endowment issue seems like a distraction to our current quest because the funds were used for current operations as may have been intended. It's an entirely different story if his gift was meant for the Endowment. But I suspect it's more complicated than that and this list will probably never find out what his precise intentions/instructions were. And how they may have been modified and by whom. David, Leo's $10m gift was given in June of 2001, and I worked with him regarding the purposes of his gift. Though the University (at least Glenn Watts) wanted it to be unrestricted, I persuaded Leo that it ought to be allocated to endowed financial aid since unfunded aid consistently provides the most significant pressure to the operating budget. He specified the gift as endowed financial aid in July of 2001. At that time (beginning of fiscal 2001-2002) the endowment jumped from $19m to $29m. Though I don't know the specifics, my understanding (and it seems to be supported in the Board minutes that Laura has assembled) is that Board, University and College representatives visited Leo and Kay several years ago to ask that the gift be redirected to operating funds, in support of the implementation of the Renewal Plan. Since portions of that gift are noted in the University's version of the College budget, I have to assume that Leo assented. At the time (2006) there was talk of the College having received another $10 million -- though it would have been the same gift given in 2001. My guess is that strong endowment earnings helped to replace the Drey gift and move the endowment back to the $30 million range. Your other question I have to work on a bit. Bob _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! From duffy at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 24 09:54:22 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Fri Aug 24 10:06:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Fwd: Bittersweet Beginning from Columbus Dispatch Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- Friday, August 24, 2007 9:48:31 AM Message From: Joe Foley Subject: Bittersweet Beginning from Columbus Dispatch To: Steven Duffy Attachments: Antioch- bittersweet beginn.pdf 119K Duffy, The article I mentioned in my previous email has been posted. Here is the PDF file. Joe  -------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph M. Foley , PhD S & J Foley Associates 4898 Sharon Ave Columbus, OH 43214 voice: 614 846-0027 fax: 614 846-1877 email: joe@foleyassociates.net -------------------------------------------------------------- Duffy, The article I mentioned in my previous email has been posted. Here is the PDF file. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph M. Foley , PhD S & J Foley Associates 4898 Sharon Ave Columbus, OH 43214 voice: 614 846-0027 fax: 614 846-1877 email: [ mailto:joe@foleyassociates.net ]joe@foleyassociates.net -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Antioch- bittersweet beginn.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 121119 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://w3.antioch.edu/pipermail/alumni-chat/attachments/20070824/d441b08b/Antioch-bittersweetbeginn-0001.pdf From aadole at adelphia.net Fri Aug 24 13:10:17 2007 From: aadole at adelphia.net (Art Dole) Date: Fri Aug 24 10:10:43 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... In-Reply-To: <484722.90933.qm@web63905.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/23/07 10:24 AM, "Laura Fathauer" wrote: >> It seems to me that if Antioch College were > independent, >> a prudent approach would be to base next year's >> budget on this year's income. Also set aside a > reserve >fund from profitable years as a buffer > against >> unprofitable ones. But I'm no accountant. > > The University's policy is to have a reserve fund, but > with the chronic depreciation-induced College deficits > since 01, the College has never been able to set that > money aside. > > According to what the University Administration claims > about its own accounting practices, the satellite > campus reserve funds are what they use to fund the > 'un-allowed' deficits at the college. > > -l > Yes. Let the remaining faculty, college administration, staff, students, parents,and community take back Antioch College and whatever remains of its endowment and physical plant. Divorce Antioch University. Then we alums will give lots of money to help rehabilitate Antioch College. I will, for sure. Art > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 > > From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 10:48:32 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (jnljnl (jimlowe@mac.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 10:48:31 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A Case for Closing Message-ID: <096ef4baa7d62020e7b08cd22fe201b1@antiochians.org> I have been both grieving the closing of Antioch College and following the discussions on the forum and the chat with a pained intensity. Reluctantly I am choosing to put before you the contrarian?s position of a middle-of-the road (conservative by the standard of the posted dialogue) alumnus who is entirely supportive of the decision to close the college at this time. I do not claim to know or judge the details of the present situation. I will tell some personal stories about my experiences over time with the college. I came to Antioch as a scholarship student from a small town in Oregon. It was a wonderful experience. I learned two important lessons. I it was OK to be smart and there were a lot of students that were smarter than I was. (In the 1959 graduating class, six of us were NSF fellows and six of us were Woodrow Wilson fellows.) For those of you who may wish to investigate, I should note that I was interviewed and rejected for a faculty position during the winter of 1966. The following is an excerpt from a message that I sent to Bob Devine and to a few classmates shortly after the closing of the college was announced. (I expressed an appreciation of Bob?s efforts to maintain the dialogue in a time of stress.) "I am speaking as a middle-of-the-road (conservative by Antioch standards) alumnus who mourns Antioch's decline more than its passing. I was there during the college's golden age - the late 1950s (Class of 1959.) I and more than a third of my classmates (well more in the sciences) went on to teach in colleges and universities. When I interviewed for a position in 1966, my youngest brother and most of his classmates were seemed deeply depressed at first-year students were too much on their own. Dick Yalman, a favorite teacher and mentor felt isolated in opposition to some of the college's riskier experimental programs. When I discussed a salary with the provost(?), it was far more than I was earning at Sewanee or had earned at Smith. Fortunately for me, the students on Adcil thought I was far too conservative (teaching at an Episcopal school) and far too professional to teach there. I think that the demise of the college was initiated by the expansionary policies of the Dixon presidency. All else - often done badly - may be a Greek tragedy." Fast forward . I was greatly distressed when two of my teachers at Antioch, both tenured - one in chemistry and one in mathematics, were dismissed for financial reasons in the late 70s. Earlier in my teaching career at Sewanee, our faculty had urged our administration to set the goal of having salaries reach the median of a select group of twenty liberal arts colleges. At that time, Antioch was high on that list. It plunged to the bottom of the list and then dropped out altogether. I would like to think that Antioch College did - and can again - play an important role in American education. I do not believe that the school has the resources or the support to do so at this time. Furthermore, I believe that effort to do so now will only drain resources needed for the reemergence of a strong and vital Antioch College. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 11:07:20 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 11:07:22 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A Case for Closing In-Reply-To: <096ef4baa7d62020e7b08cd22fe201b1@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <2d2175574d9146cc42640708603ec426@antiochians.org> >I do not claim to know or judge the details of the present situation. The first qualification for advocating for a drastic measure. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 11:09:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Rowan (rowankaiser@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 11:09:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A Case for Closing In-Reply-To: <096ef4baa7d62020e7b08cd22fe201b1@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <486ee8adb21e1f8f4fcadc7dfe61d18a@www.antiochians.org> When I initially heard the news of the closing, I was leaning towards just such a position. However, I think you will find that the more details you learn about why there were few resources, the less valid you'll find it. Chief amongst them are these: The closing of the College was pushed not as much by a general decline of the College as a series of poor decisions by University leadership, most notable, the Financial Stabilization and Consolidation plan of 01-02, and the hurried implementation of the Renewal Plan in 04-05. The first decision put the College into continuous crisis mode in every time the budget came around. The second, the Renewal Plan, was a push by the Board of Trustees to fix the problem they'd caused with a drastic shift in curriculum. Faculty and staff initially were given two years to implement it. The BOT changed that to one year, and admissions collapsed, leading to the direct financial crisis that led to the closing. The BOT also promised 5 years of financial support to make the Plan work, and did not deliver. That same University leadership and Board of Trustees also have no plan for reopening in 2012. There is no reason to believe that they will suddenly have new donors in place to build their "Antioch University Yellow Springs." The only new source of income they seem to have is the plan to sell off portions of the campus to developers to make their money (which can be seen in leaked confidential documents on http://www.theantiochpapers.com/) These documents also make it clear that they plan on saving money by eliminating tenure, and the four-year delay in opening has the legal justification of them not having to offer current tenured faculty their jobs back if it reopens. in other words, while theoretically the idea of Antioch closing to get its act together might seem like a good idea, the more you delve into the practicality of the closing, the uglier it gets. Rowan >I have been both grieving the closing of Antioch College and following the discussions on the forum and the chat with a pained intensity. Reluctantly I am choosing to put before you the contrarian?s position of a middle-of-the road (conservative by the standard of the posted dialogue) alumnus who is entirely supportive of the decision to close the college at this time. > >I do not claim to know or judge the details of the present situation. I will tell some personal stories about my experiences over time with the college. I came to Antioch as a scholarship student from a small town in Oregon. It was a wonderful experience. I learned two important lessons. I it was OK to be smart and there were a lot of students that were smarter than I was. (In the 1959 graduating class, six of us were NSF fellows and six of us were Woodrow Wilson fellows.) > >For those of you who may wish to investigate, I should note that I was interviewed and rejected for a faculty position during the winter of 1966. The following is an excerpt from a message that I sent to Bob Devine and to a few classmates shortly after the closing of the college was announced. (I expressed an appreciation of Bob?s efforts to maintain the dialogue in a time of stress.) > >"I am speaking as a middle-of-the-road (conservative by Antioch >standards) alumnus who mourns Antioch's decline more than its >passing. I was there during the college's golden age - the late >1950s (Class of 1959.) I and more than a third of my classmates (well >more in the sciences) went on to teach in colleges and universities. >When I interviewed for a position in 1966, my youngest brother and >most of his classmates were seemed deeply depressed at first-year >students were too much on their own. Dick Yalman, a favorite teacher >and mentor felt isolated in opposition to some of the college's >riskier experimental programs. When I discussed a salary with the >provost(?), it was far more than I was earning at Sewanee or had >earned at Smith. Fortunately for me, the students on Adcil thought I >was far too conservative (teaching at an Episcopal school) and far too >professional to teach there. I think that the demise of the college >was initiated by the expansionary policies of the Dixon presidency. >All else - often done badly - may be a Greek tragedy." > >Fast forward . I was greatly distressed when two of my teachers at Antioch, both tenured - one in chemistry and one in mathematics, were dismissed for financial reasons in the late 70s. Earlier in my teaching career at Sewanee, our faculty had urged our administration to set the goal of having salaries reach the median of a select group of twenty liberal arts colleges. At that time, Antioch was high on that list. It plunged to the bottom of the list and then dropped out altogether. > >I would like to think that Antioch College did - and can again - play an important role in American education. I do not believe that the school has the resources or the support to do so at this time. Furthermore, I believe that effort to do so now will only drain resources needed for the reemergence of a strong and vital Antioch College. From marnoldtk at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 11:28:06 2007 From: marnoldtk at yahoo.com (Matthew Arnold) Date: Fri Aug 24 11:28:30 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A Case for Closing Message-ID: <318233.39099.qm@web53405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Jim, if we had the slightest reason to believe the people running this clown show -- the board of trustees and, more importantly, the University leadership, to which they seem to defer on all decision-making -- were acting in good faith, then that option would be more palatable. As they seem not to be acting in good faith, but rather trying to raze the College, salt the earth it stands on, hollow out all but a hull of the brand and pour something like the antithesis of its values and legacy back into it, closing the College is not an option for many of us. We all know the College has a deeply flawed, possibly untenable business model -- operating pretty much as it's supposed to, it loses money and doesn't have the customary $500 million endowment to make up for it. But it has also suffered, in the short term, from awful stewardship. We can argue all day about which proportions of those two factors led us to this point (and in fact, we've been arguing about it on this list for months now), but as long as those same awful stewards are on the job, we can be sure that nothing resembling the College that gave us such fine educations could ever rise from the ashes of Antioch 2008 in 2012, and Horace Mann will be spinning so furiously in his grave he'll have splinters in his ass. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC From soyalsprouts at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 11:44:40 2007 From: soyalsprouts at yahoo.com (christian stuempfig) Date: Fri Aug 24 11:45:04 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A Case for Closing In-Reply-To: <096ef4baa7d62020e7b08cd22fe201b1@antiochians.org> Message-ID: <986478.37738.qm@web55314.mail.re4.yahoo.com> fuuny how episcopalians are thought to be conservative "jnljnl (jimlowe@mac.com)" wrote: I have been both grieving the closing of Antioch College and following the discussions on the forum and the chat with a pained intensity. Reluctantly I am choosing to put before you the contrarian?s position of a middle-of-the road (conservative by the standard of the posted dialogue) alumnus who is entirely supportive of the decision to close the college at this time. I do not claim to know or judge the details of the present situation. I will tell some personal stories about my experiences over time with the college. I came to Antioch as a scholarship student from a small town in Oregon. It was a wonderful experience. I learned two important lessons. I it was OK to be smart and there were a lot of students that were smarter than I was. (In the 1959 graduating class, six of us were NSF fellows and six of us were Woodrow Wilson fellows.) For those of you who may wish to investigate, I should note that I was interviewed and rejected for a faculty position during the winter of 1966. The following is an excerpt from a message that I sent to Bob Devine and to a few classmates shortly after the closing of the college was announced. (I expressed an appreciation of Bob?s efforts to maintain the dialogue in a time of stress.) "I am speaking as a middle-of-the-road (conservative by Antioch standards) alumnus who mourns Antioch's decline more than its passing. I was there during the college's golden age - the late 1950s (Class of 1959.) I and more than a third of my classmates (well more in the sciences) went on to teach in colleges and universities. When I interviewed for a position in 1966, my youngest brother and most of his classmates were seemed deeply depressed at first-year students were too much on their own. Dick Yalman, a favorite teacher and mentor felt isolated in opposition to some of the college's riskier experimental programs. When I discussed a salary with the provost(?), it was far more than I was earning at Sewanee or had earned at Smith. Fortunately for me, the students on Adcil thought I was far too conservative (teaching at an Episcopal school) and far too professional to teach there. I think that the demise of the college was initiated by the expansionary policies of the Dixon presidency. All else - often done badly - may be a Greek tragedy." Fast forward . I was greatly distressed when two of my teachers at Antioch, both tenured - one in chemistry and one in mathematics, were dismissed for financial reasons in the late 70s. Earlier in my teaching career at Sewanee, our faculty had urged our administration to set the goal of having salaries reach the median of a select group of twenty liberal arts colleges. At that time, Antioch was high on that list. It plunged to the bottom of the list and then dropped out altogether. I would like to think that Antioch College did - and can again - play an important role in American education. I do not believe that the school has the resources or the support to do so at this time. Furthermore, I believe that effort to do so now will only drain resources needed for the reemergence of a strong and vital Antioch College. _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. From soyalsprouts at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 11:46:48 2007 From: soyalsprouts at yahoo.com (christian stuempfig) Date: Fri Aug 24 11:47:12 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A Case for Closing In-Reply-To: <318233.39099.qm@web53405.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <549266.47549.qm@web55311.mail.re4.yahoo.com> yay that gave me a good laugh thanks matt christian Matthew Arnold wrote: Jim, if we had the slightest reason to believe the people running this clown show -- the board of trustees and, more importantly, the University leadership, to which they seem to defer on all decision-making -- were acting in good faith, then that option would be more palatable. As they seem not to be acting in good faith, but rather trying to raze the College, salt the earth it stands on, hollow out all but a hull of the brand and pour something like the antithesis of its values and legacy back into it, closing the College is not an option for many of us. We all know the College has a deeply flawed, possibly untenable business model -- operating pretty much as it's supposed to, it loses money and doesn't have the customary $500 million endowment to make up for it. But it has also suffered, in the short term, from awful stewardship. We can argue all day about which proportions of those two factors led us to this point (and in fact, we've been arguing about it on this list for months now), but as long as those same awful stewards are on the job, we can be sure that nothing resembling the College that gave us such fine educations could ever rise from the ashes of Antioch 2008 in 2012, and Horace Mann will be spinning so furiously in his grave he'll have splinters in his ass. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC _______________________________________________ Alumni-chat mailing list Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 11:56:35 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 11:56:35 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A Case for Closing In-Reply-To: <549266.47549.qm@web55311.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: JNL, Yes union-protected jobs cost money. I am sorry for you for the one bad personal experience you had with certain individuals at the college. But personally I know that the college still has unique attributes that make it highly viable, as well as academically valuable, if run in a more fiscally responsible manner. I would hope that you would acknowledge the grievous errors that have been made in the years since Antioch became part of a university system. And I would also hope you would, after reading through this forum, realize the substantially gifted the College has produced in every decade. Jane Slater Class of '80 From pas0705 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 12:40:25 2007 From: pas0705 at yahoo.com (Laura Fathauer) Date: Fri Aug 24 12:40:51 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: <8b0a1098ffa833b09f08be2d514b1b53@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <207259.52921.qm@web63906.mail.re1.yahoo.com> --- "john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)" wrote: > I understand the distinction you're making, but I'm > not sure why you think it's significant. (Well, > actually, I can think of some reasons, but it's only > uninformed speculation.) Am I naive in believing > that the University Administration is accountable to > the Trustees? > > I feel like you're being somewhat circumspect. If > you can connect the dots for me without being > indiscreet, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, carry > on, I'll figure it out. > > John Hevelin '68 Now who's being circumspect?!?!? I'm not quite sure what you're asking about, but I'll try to restate some things in the hope that it might help us figure each other out. :) So many places to start from.... In 2001, Federalism died. The Board and the University CFO started making changes to the operations of the College. Since the removal of the College CFO in 2/2002, the University Administration controls the entire financial picture, both in what is presented to the Board, and what is provided to the College. The College Community is completely aware that the University Administration does not give the same picture to those two groups. The Board doesn't believe that yet. Yet even one of the leaders of the board (a chair or vice chair) said (and I paraphrase); The Chancellor is the only one who directly reports to the Board, and the Board Chair is often times the conduit to the rest of the board for that information. Since 2001, the University Chancellor's position has been filled by personnel inexperienced in the requirements of running an undergraduate, PRIVATE, liberal arts college. Craiglow was from New England since 1986. Murdock's non-Seattle-Graduate program experience was with a community college and with a state university, and was with Seattle since 1997. In a properly functioning federalist system, with a strong College representative, that might not be a problem. However, between 10/2001 and 1/2006, the College did not have adequate CEO representation, either in the University system or the Board. Straumanis was brought in to fund-raise from organizations (since a capital campaign was already underway), and endured three continuous years of University and Board mandated budget cuts. Jurasek was an interim, already focused on the Renewal Commission. Nor did the College have an adequate FINANCIAL representation, and it hasn't to this day. The representation that the College has had to the Board since 2001 are chancellors with a primary (STRONG) background in the adult, graduate programs from their respective campuses. Their biggest blind spots? The biggest differences in the management of an undergraduate 4-year private liberal arts program, and a graduate regional adult degree program? From what I've seen, there are at least 2 that have had the most historical impact: the importance of Admissions, and the importance of Alumni Relations and Development Under the leadership of the University Administration, and often times with the full participation of the Finance Committee of the board, the College has been subjected to: -Mandated vacancies in Admissions -A mandated vacancy in the position of the Lead Development officer. -Years of Admissions budget cuts, to the point that the Dean of Admissions tried to report to the board that Admissions Budget was cut "perilously low" in 03. He ran out of time in his presentation. The Board was focused at that time on the Renewal Commission. Whether you believe the Chancellors were (are) acting maliciously or not, what is evident to me is that the deficiencies in the Chancellors' understandings of the needs of the College, working within the collapse of federalism, has created a similar deficiency in understanding within the Board of Trustees. Steven Lawry wanted to change that. He told the board at one point that historically Admissions and Development were the two first area to be affected by budget cuts, and that that would not happen under his presidency. Had the Board fulfilled its pledge of financial support, I think Lawry (whatever his flaws in the understanding of the College culture) might have been able to re-set the imbalance in the failed federalism of the University. However, the University Administration still controls the financial picture. And this is a University Administration that doesn't understand the basis of alumni giving and external financial support to an undergraduate private institution. Its no surprise they've presented to the board a financial picture that has almost completely removed external donations (and the Board's pledge of financial support) from their projections. Did Lawry try to enlighten the board about the errors of the University Administration's assumptions? We might never know. However, since the collapse of federalism since 2001, I think the Board has lost the knowledge of what drives undergraduate private institutions, and has fully become a University Board of Trustees. From my perspective, I see how this could have formed the basis for Lawry's call for a College board. I'm trying to come up with an appropriate metaphor- the best I can state is the University Administration in 06-07 played "chicken" with the Board. "If you don't follow through on funding, this is where we'll be in October 08." The Board flinched. Why wouldn't they? For 6 years, the College's representation has been a financial representation presented by the University CFO, and supported by the Finance Committee. Their picture is, by virtue of their responsibilities, a University picture, financially based, with the blind spots previously mentioned. And between 2001 and 2006, there has not been anyone sufficiently experienced in College management in any position respected by the Board to correct that picture. Was that circumspect enough? Not that I've thought about these issues at all. But that's just my perspective. Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ From dlbahr at hotmail.com Fri Aug 24 13:09:31 2007 From: dlbahr at hotmail.com (dl bahr) Date: Fri Aug 24 13:10:00 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: <207259.52921.qm@web63906.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you Laura for connecting some of the dots. Lesley AP Bahr >From: Laura Fathauer >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: Alumni Chat List >,saveantioch@lists.antiochians.org >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [Why are we always poor? >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:40:25 -0700 (PDT) > > >--- "john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)" > wrote: > > > > I understand the distinction you're making, but I'm > > not sure why you think it's significant. (Well, > > actually, I can think of some reasons, but it's only > > uninformed speculation.) Am I naive in believing > > that the University Administration is accountable to > > the Trustees? > > > > I feel like you're being somewhat circumspect. If > > you can connect the dots for me without being > > indiscreet, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, carry > > on, I'll figure it out. > > > > John Hevelin '68 > > >Now who's being circumspect?!?!? I'm not quite sure >what you're asking about, but I'll try to restate some >things in the hope that it might help us figure each >other out. :) > >So many places to start from.... > >In 2001, Federalism died. The Board and the University >CFO started making changes to the operations of the >College. Since the removal of the College CFO in >2/2002, the University Administration controls the >entire financial picture, both in what is presented to >the Board, and what is provided to the College. > >The College Community is completely aware that the >University Administration does not give the same >picture to those two groups. The Board doesn't believe >that yet. > >Yet even one of the leaders of the board (a chair or >vice chair) said (and I paraphrase); The Chancellor is >the only one who directly reports to the Board, and >the Board Chair is often times the conduit to the rest >of the board for that information. > >Since 2001, the University Chancellor's position has >been filled by personnel inexperienced in the >requirements of running an undergraduate, PRIVATE, >liberal arts college. Craiglow was from New England >since 1986. Murdock's non-Seattle-Graduate program >experience was with a community college and with a >state university, and was with Seattle since 1997. > >In a properly functioning federalist system, with a >strong College representative, that might not be a >problem. However, between 10/2001 and 1/2006, the >College did not have adequate CEO representation, >either in the University system or the Board. >Straumanis was brought in to fund-raise from >organizations (since a capital campaign was already >underway), and endured three continuous years of >University and Board mandated budget cuts. Jurasek was >an interim, already focused on the Renewal Commission. > >Nor did the College have an adequate FINANCIAL >representation, and it hasn't to this day. > >The representation that the College has had to the >Board since 2001 are chancellors with a primary >(STRONG) background in the adult, graduate programs >from their respective campuses. > >Their biggest blind spots? The biggest differences in >the management of an undergraduate 4-year private >liberal arts program, and a graduate regional adult >degree program? From what I've seen, there are at >least 2 that have had the most historical impact: >the importance of Admissions, and >the importance of Alumni Relations and Development > >Under the leadership of the University Administration, >and often times with the full participation of the >Finance Committee of the board, the College has been >subjected to: > >-Mandated vacancies in Admissions > >-A mandated vacancy in the position of the Lead >Development officer. > >-Years of Admissions budget cuts, to the point that >the Dean of Admissions tried to report to the board >that Admissions Budget was cut "perilously low" in 03. >He ran out of time in his presentation. The Board was >focused at that time on the Renewal Commission. > >Whether you believe the Chancellors were (are) acting >maliciously or not, what is evident to me is that the >deficiencies in the Chancellors' understandings of the >needs of the College, working within the collapse of >federalism, has created a similar deficiency in >understanding within the Board of Trustees. > >Steven Lawry wanted to change that. He told the board >at one point that historically Admissions and >Development were the two first area to be affected by >budget cuts, and that that would not happen under his >presidency. Had the Board fulfilled its pledge of >financial support, I think Lawry (whatever his flaws >in the understanding of the College culture) might >have been able to re-set the imbalance in the failed >federalism of the University. > >However, the University Administration still controls >the financial picture. And this is a University >Administration that doesn't understand the basis of >alumni giving and external financial support to an >undergraduate private institution. Its no surprise >they've presented to the board a financial picture >that has almost completely removed external donations >(and the Board's pledge of financial support) from >their projections. > >Did Lawry try to enlighten the board about the errors >of the University Administration's assumptions? We >might never know. However, since the collapse of >federalism since 2001, I think the Board has lost the >knowledge of what drives undergraduate private >institutions, and has fully become a University Board >of Trustees. From my perspective, I see how this could >have formed the basis for Lawry's call for a College >board. > >I'm trying to come up with an appropriate metaphor- >the best I can state is the University Administration >in 06-07 played "chicken" with the Board. "If you >don't follow through on funding, this is where we'll >be in October 08." > >The Board flinched. > >Why wouldn't they? For 6 years, the College's >representation has been a financial representation >presented by the University CFO, and supported by the >Finance Committee. Their picture is, by virtue of >their responsibilities, a University picture, >financially based, with the blind spots previously >mentioned. And between 2001 and 2006, there has not >been anyone sufficiently experienced in College >management in any position respected by the Board to >correct that picture. > >Was that circumspect enough? Not that I've thought >about these issues at all. But that's just my >perspective. > > >Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Need a vacation? Get great deals >to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >http://travel.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From w420 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 24 13:16:39 2007 From: w420 at earthlink.net (Don Wallace) Date: Fri Aug 24 13:16:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Another Pet Theory... Message-ID: <000001c7e672$8a1969d0$0301a8c0@MNBRCOMPUTER> Thank you, Sistersara, for the prodding for openness by the Alumni Board. I support the need for openness on the part of the Alumni Board. Begrudgingly, I give the leadership of the Alumni Board high marks in that respect for a couple of reasons. First, is very open. The general sense is that everything can be shared except for that for which discretion is specifically felt necessary. The extent of openness is marked by my need to make some deletions of messages from Outlook. I deleted nearly 1200 messages from the past three months, most representing shared exchanges within the Alumni Board. Agree or disagree with the output, I find material emerging from the Alumni Board to be high quality and thoroughly vetted before presentation. Even so, additional comment by the preparers or by President Nancy Crow is routinely invited and used. It may be the old notion that some 20% of the people are doing 80% of the work. It gets difficult if those 20% have to gain consensus from the other 80% before moving forward on each little point. When I get a bit frustrated with the lack of information, I think of this and think to myself that all of us who are concerned are getting a pretty good deal from the leadership of the Alumni Board. Another point to be made is this. There is a lot more personal communication with individual members of the Alumni Board than is generally acknowledged. Because I was not part of the leadership group of the Alumni I sought participation in the Antioch Revival through the ad hoc group in Yellow Springs. This group has been very effective at a time when the Alumni Board and the Antioch Faculty were still staking out their position on a number of issues. It didn't take long to realize that a number of individuals were in almost daily communication with the leadership group of the Alumni Board. These individuals, using discretion to protect their relationships and their sources, frequently enrich the discussion at other levels and in other fora. I find independent groups like those responding to this thread have virtually the same power to collaborate and develop shared, clear, constructive positions when focused on cooperation and collaboration and not taking ego serving pot shots at one another. Furthermore, I know that some members of the Alumni Board and others close to Alumni Board members read and take part in discussion in threads like this. It becomes a huge, mutually reinforcing collaboration wherein the outlying groups have an independence of thought not likely reached by the Alumni Board. While the ad hoc group in Yellow Springs retains its independence, it is interesting to watch how quickly coordination develop when necessary. As a result everyone, top to bottom, Alumni or not, are on the same page as the events of this weekend are approached. I've offered my two bits and am not changing the topic because I am still interested in seeing the "pet theory" that was the basis for this thread developed. I might mention that my eye is on a forensic audit, too, just as Sistersara advised. Still, I know the Alumni Board leadership is doing all it can to achieve our goals without litigation. That makes the words of fashion an independent audit. Don Wallace . but in a very interesting way. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 13:18:57 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 13:18:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: <207259.52921.qm@web63906.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1d439ffca3e864c28843d973c2c7fb5d@antiochians.org> Laura, As usual your research and interpretation of history is, in my opinion, very impressive! I would only add that when Chancellor Hall also served as president of the College for a brief time before Straumanis was hired, all of the summer institutes were cancelled. These institutes were bringing in hundreds of alumni as visiting profs and starting to pick up revenue (documentary arts, Theater Under the Stars, Peace Institute, creative writing to name a few) and marketing efforts were taking hold. This is to me, is another example of the bottom line eliminating an entrepreneurial opportunity that was starting to generate income and a positive reputation for the College regionally and nationally. Callie >--- "john_hevelin (bwotte@rexx.com)" > wrote: > > >>I understand the distinction you're making, but I'm >>not sure why you think it's significant. (Well, >>actually, I can think of some reasons, but it's only >>uninformed speculation.) Am I naive in believing >>that the University Administration is accountable to >>the Trustees? >> >>I feel like you're being somewhat circumspect. If >>you can connect the dots for me without being >>indiscreet, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, carry >>on, I'll figure it out. >> >>John Hevelin '68 >Now who's being circumspect?!?!? I'm not quite sure >what you're asking about, but I'll try to restate some >things in the hope that it might help us figure each >other out. :) > >So many places to start from.... > >In 2001, Federalism died. The Board and the University >CFO started making changes to the operations of the >College. Since the removal of the College CFO in >2/2002, the University Administration controls the >entire financial picture, both in what is presented to >the Board, and what is provided to the College. > >The College Community is completely aware that the >University Administration does not give the same >picture to those two groups. The Board doesn't believe >that yet. > >Yet even one of the leaders of the board (a chair or >vice chair) said (and I paraphrase); The Chancellor is >the only one who directly reports to the Board, and >the Board Chair is often times the conduit to the rest >of the board for that information. > >Since 2001, the University Chancellor's position has >been filled by personnel inexperienced in the >requirements of running an undergraduate, PRIVATE, >liberal arts college. Craiglow was from New England >since 1986. Murdock's non-Seattle-Graduate program >experience was with a community college and with a >state university, and was with Seattle since 1997. > >In a properly functioning federalist system, with a >strong College representative, that might not be a >problem. However, between 10/2001 and 1/2006, the >College did not have adequate CEO representation, >either in the University system or the Board. >Straumanis was brought in to fund-raise from >organizations (since a capital campaign was already >underway), and endured three continuous years of >University and Board mandated budget cuts. Jurasek was >an interim, already focused on the Renewal Commission. > >Nor did the College have an adequate FINANCIAL >representation, and it hasn't to this day. > >The representation that the College has had to the >Board since 2001 are chancellors with a primary >(STRONG) background in the adult, graduate programs >from their respective campuses. > >Their biggest blind spots? The biggest differences in >the management of an undergraduate 4-year private >liberal arts program, and a graduate regional adult >degree program? From what I've seen, there are at >least 2 that have had the most historical impact: >the importance of Admissions, and >the importance of Alumni Relations and Development > >Under the leadership of the University Administration, >and often times with the full participation of the >Finance Committee of the board, the College has been >subjected to: > >-Mandated vacancies in Admissions > >-A mandated vacancy in the position of the Lead >Development officer. > >-Years of Admissions budget cuts, to the point that >the Dean of Admissions tried to report to the board >that Admissions Budget was cut "perilously low" in 03. >He ran out of time in his presentation. The Board was >focused at that time on the Renewal Commission. > >Whether you believe the Chancellors were (are) acting >maliciously or not, what is evident to me is that the >deficiencies in the Chancellors' understandings of the >needs of the College, working within the collapse of >federalism, has created a similar deficiency in >understanding within the Board of Trustees. > >Steven Lawry wanted to change that. He told the board >at one point that historically Admissions and >Development were the two first area to be affected by >budget cuts, and that that would not happen under his >presidency. Had the Board fulfilled its pledge of >financial support, I think Lawry (whatever his flaws >in the understanding of the College culture) might >have been able to re-set the imbalance in the failed >federalism of the University. > >However, the University Administration still controls >the financial picture. And this is a University >Administration that doesn't understand the basis of >alumni giving and external financial support to an >undergraduate private institution. Its no surprise >they've presented to the board a financial picture >that has almost completely removed external donations >(and the Board's pledge of financial support) from >their projections. > >Did Lawry try to enlighten the board about the errors >of the University Administration's assumptions? We >might never know. However, since the collapse of >federalism since 2001, I think the Board has lost the >knowledge of what drives undergraduate private >institutions, and has fully become a University Board >of Trustees. From my perspective, I see how this could >have formed the basis for Lawry's call for a College >board. > >I'm trying to come up with an appropriate metaphor- >the best I can state is the University Administration >in 06-07 played "chicken" with the Board. "If you >don't follow through on funding, this is where we'll >be in October 08." > >The Board flinched. > >Why wouldn't they? For 6 years, the College's >representation has been a financial representation >presented by the University CFO, and supported by the >Finance Committee. Their picture is, by virtue of >their responsibilities, a University picture, >financially based, with the blind spots previously >mentioned. And between 2001 and 2006, there has not >been anyone sufficiently experienced in College >management in any position respected by the Board to >correct that picture. > >Was that circumspect enough? Not that I've thought >about these issues at all. But that's just my >perspective. > > >Laura > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Need a vacation? Get great deals >to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. >http://travel.yahoo.com/ > >_______________________________________________ From kokeefe at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 24 13:56:41 2007 From: kokeefe at antioch-college.edu (Kelly O'Keefe) Date: Fri Aug 24 14:08:13 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Mandatory Student Waiver In-Reply-To: <1d439ffca3e864c28843d973c2c7fb5d@antiochians.org> References: <1d439ffca3e864c28843d973c2c7fb5d@antiochians.org> Message-ID: Yesterday was the first day of freshman orientation, and in Main Building, with the refreshments and check-in procedures, there were forms that the Orientation hosts were told were mandatory for all students to sign and date. Here's what the forms say, retyped by yours truly: Student Acknowledgment of Suspension of Operations of Antioch College I, ______________, hereby acknowledge the following: 1. I am aware it has been determined that Antioch college, the undergraduate residential campus of Antioch University located in Yellow Springs, Ohio, will suspend operations after the 2007-2008 academic year. 2. I have received and read a copy of the document titled "Plan for Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch college and Transfew of Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education." Based upon this document, I understand that with assistance and approval from my academic adviser and the Registrar Office I will be responsible for development of Degree Plan in which I will specify conditions under which "I may be able" or "I may be unable" to complete the requirements to relieve a degree from Antioch college prior tot he end of calendar year 2008. I further understand that the "Plan for Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch College prior tot he end of calendar year 2008. I further understand that the "Plan for Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch College and Transfer Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education" referred to above may be modified in the future. 3. I understand that even though I have chosen to enroll as a student as Antioch college, and notwithstanding the statements made in the "Plan for Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch college and Transfer of Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education," Antioch University has made no promises or guarantees that I will complete the requirements to receive credit from Antioch college or to receive a degree from Antioch college prior to the end of calendar year 2008. 4. I understand that this written Acknowledgment supersedes any other prior or written statement that may have been made to me by any person on behalf of Antioch University relating in any way to my continued enrollment or my ability to complete the requirements to receive a degree from Antioch College and that no future statements that may be made will establish any binding obligation of Antioch College or Antioch University without the express written consent of an unauthorized representative of Antioch University. ___________________ student ___________________ date Some students signed it, and some rejected it. I'm not sure that I trust the administration enough, at this point, to shove a "mandatory" waiver in front of students, especially fresh, 18 year olds who's parents aren't around. So many actions from the admin have had major ulterior motives, I'm wondering what you think about it. Kelly O'Keefe '08 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Fri Aug 24 14:11:21 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Fri Aug 24 14:11:49 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Mandatory Student Waiver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: it's a sack of bullshit that wont hold up in court "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "Kelly O'Keefe" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: "Alumni Chat List" >CC: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: [Alumni-chat] Mandatory Student Waiver >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:56:41 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc1-f14.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, >24 Aug 2007 11:07:51 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C3B6134682;Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:08:12 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from mail.mcgregor.edu (fc.antioch.edu [199.218.254.148])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C656134675;Fri, 24 Aug 2007 >14:08:11 -0400 (EDT) >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAWfyhXUL4CcoT8qopyJWVDvVdRh69m8DVDuhGhzIcay+4aX//T8Ld0LEJywUyCfssD8XcJ0iDYmoA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-FC-SERVER-TZ: 15729388 >References: <1d439ffca3e864c28843d973c2c7fb5d@antiochians.org> >X-BeenThere: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2007 18:07:51.0859 (UTC) >FILETIME=[AFD28830:01C7E679] > >Yesterday was the first day of freshman orientation, and in Main Building, >with the refreshments and check-in procedures, there were forms that the >Orientation hosts were told were mandatory for all students to sign and >date. > >Here's what the forms say, retyped by yours truly: > >Student Acknowledgment of Suspension of Operations of Antioch College > >I, ______________, hereby acknowledge the following: > >1. I am aware it has been determined that Antioch college, the >undergraduate residential campus of Antioch University located in Yellow >Springs, Ohio, will suspend operations after the 2007-2008 academic year. > >2. I have received and read a copy of the document titled "Plan for >Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch college and Transfew of >Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education." Based upon this >document, I understand that with assistance and approval from my academic >adviser and the Registrar Office I will be responsible for development of >Degree Plan in which I will specify conditions under which "I may be able" >or "I may be unable" to complete the requirements to relieve a degree from >Antioch college prior tot he end of calendar year 2008. I further >understand that the "Plan for Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch >College prior tot he end of calendar year 2008. I further understand that >the "Plan for Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch College and >Transfer Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education" referred to >above may be modified in the future. > >3. I understand that even though I have chosen to enroll as a student as >Antioch college, and notwithstanding the statements made in the "Plan for >Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch college and Transfer of >Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education," Antioch University >has made no promises or guarantees that I will complete the requirements >to receive credit from Antioch college or to receive a degree from Antioch >college prior to the end of calendar year 2008. > >4. I understand that this written Acknowledgment supersedes any other >prior or written statement that may have been made to me by any person on >behalf of Antioch University relating in any way to my continued >enrollment or my ability to complete the requirements to receive a degree >from Antioch College and that no future statements that may be made will >establish any binding obligation of Antioch College or Antioch University >without the express written consent of an unauthorized representative of >Antioch University. > >___________________ >student > > >___________________ >date > > >Some students signed it, and some rejected it. I'm not sure that I trust >the administration enough, at this point, to shove a "mandatory" waiver in >front of students, especially fresh, 18 year olds who's parents aren't >around. So many actions from the admin have had major ulterior motives, >I'm wondering what you think about it. > >Kelly O'Keefe '08 > >_______________________________________________ >Alumni-chat mailing list >Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat >Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more….then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&ss=yp.bars~yp.pizza~yp.movie%20theater&cp=42.358996~-71.056691&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=950607&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01 From theodora at imbris.com Fri Aug 24 15:02:14 2007 From: theodora at imbris.com (Pam Olsen) Date: Fri Aug 24 14:58:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] A case for closing Message-ID: To quote Jimlowe: "I have been both grieving the closing of Antioch College and following the discussions on the forum and the chat with a pained intensity. Reluctantly I am choosing to put before you the contrarian?s position of a middle-of-the road (conservative by the standard of the posted dialogue) alumnus who is entirely supportive of the decision to close the college at this time." I will admit that in theory, I didn't think it was necessarily a big deal to close the college for a few years, while it "got it's act together.' But now that I've hung around this forum for a few weeks and chatted with old friends "back channel," I realize it is a very big deal. Why? (I'll know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong!) 1. Because they don't want to re-open the college, they want to make it another branch of the University, if they do anything at all with it. 2. That might seem ok, except that they want to strip it of any smackings of a small liberal arts college, without a secure faculty that can truly participate as community. I liked the way that the guy in that article posted a few days ago said it: Antioch is not so much about teachers teaching students, it's about teachers and students learning together. Take that away, and you take away the essence of Antioch, in my opinion. Take away a tenured faculty, and I think you take away an important sense of security that enables faculty to participate in that way. Maybe not. Maybe a "core faculty" with "secure contracts" could do the same. We don't know. And there's the rub. 3. If they don't want to, they don't have to do anything at all with it. They can simply sell it. 4. From what people are saying, the University is not making money, either. In fact, it's almost bankrupt, and it would be kinda handy to sell of the college to bail out the University. It would appear that some on the Board don't think that would be a big deal. IN fact, it would be the easy way out. 5. Close the college and make it a part of the University, with "Antioch" in name only, and they'll lose the support (I think) of the vast majority of alumni. Instead, they could learn better fund-raising techniques and get much better support from alumni for the college. I, for one, am now committed for life, if the college survives. A little every month from everyone would keep it hopping. so, although they're really trying to make it look like they want to save and improve the college, that doesn't appear to be what's happening beneath the surface. The college probably needs to do some restructuring of salaries, etc., as you point out. I think they are currently working hard on a business plan to do that and a variety of other things to make it financially more workable. I confess to having had my doubts as to whether Antioch today has been providing the quality of education it provided in the 60s, and what I'm gleaning here is that it's doing that at least as well, if not better, which is quite remarkable, given that they don't have as much choice about which applicants to accept, and don't have as broad a program due to financial constraints. As for there not being enough room for moderates and conservatives, I, too, would like to see Antioch get beyond the politics of confrontation and see further ahead to the fact that we now live in a world where people with different cultural and religious beliefs (and business practices ) are going to have to learn to live together. I would like to see a college where there could be a model community, where conservatives, liberals, and radicals could dialogue openly and respectfully, where Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and athiests (etc.) could have lively and informative discussions. I think advertising internationally for students is a super idea. But that's just me, and I'm just one small voice. Antioch can always improve it's program and approach if it can govern itself, and if faculty and students and administration (and alumni) together can brainstorm and create. But if it's ruled as part of a huge system with a distant governing body that isn't really involved, that probably won't happen. Pam From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 14:59:46 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 14:59:46 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <06d3a45cb81aaf400f71ea5485e23708@www.antiochians.org> Has this been posted anywhere yet on the forum? I assume this is totally seperate from their meeting with the 25 former trustees. Only 4 faculty Only 2 staff 5 "Community" Only 4 current students or the CMs 11 Alumni 0 before 1955 2 1955-1960 2 1960-65 2 1965-70 4-1970-72 0 1972-1982 1 1983-1995 2 1996-1998 0 1998-up to enrollment of current students. Only 2 designated former Trustees (though I believe some serving as Alumni stakeholders have been trustees as well). Is anyone of the Alumni stakeholders NOT either a current AB member former AB member? What no Sally? No Alan? No Gerry? No Bob? Stakeholders for August 25 Board of Trustees Meeting in Cincinnati Faculty: Beverly Rodgers Patricia Mische Hassan Rahmarnian Andrzej Bloch Staff: Steven Duffy Judith Kintner Community: Eric Swansen Karen Wintrow Mark Crockett Jane Baker Dan Young Community Government/Students: Chelsea Martens Victoria Adams-Cheatham Elizabeth Goodney Cindy Pierrelouis Alumni: Ellen Borgersen ?72 Michael Brower ?55 Richard Daily ?68 Tendaji Ganges ?71 Catherine Jordon ?72 Tim Klass ?71 Miguel Santiago, Jr. ?98 Steve Schwerner ?60 Allen Spalt ?66 Greg Williams ?96 Karen Mulhauser ?65 Former Board of Trustee: Eric Bates ?83 Barbara Winslow ?68 McGregor: Fred Barnstein From matt at baya.net Fri Aug 24 15:19:10 2007 From: matt at baya.net (Matthew Baya) Date: Fri Aug 24 15:14:08 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <06d3a45cb81aaf400f71ea5485e23708@www.antiochians.org> References: <06d3a45cb81aaf400f71ea5485e23708@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: Greg Williams is not now nor never has been an AB member -Matt From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 15:19:52 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 15:19:53 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8c97bf46a37c3aa50735fe50316c097f@www.antiochians.org> >Greg Williams is not now nor never has been an AB member > >-Matt Could we shorten that to NNNN? IMHO it would be a great addition to the lexicon acronyms for chat. Matt, has this been posted elsewhere? From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 15:37:37 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 15:37:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <06d3a45cb81aaf400f71ea5485e23708@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >0 1972-1982 What does that tell ya? Damn, some folks know how to hold a grudge. I mean, there were only, what, 2,000 students in 1972, I guess it would be hard to find someone to ask to the tea party. :-/ >No Alan? Goddess, no. I can think of at least a dozen of my cohort who are better qualified and more deserving. And more polite. Alan '92 From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 15:38:59 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 15:38:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <8c97bf46a37c3aa50735fe50316c097f@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <611a083f1b4ddc5f208adc637e5d89fc@antiochians.org> Alan Spalt nnnn >>Greg Williams is not now nor never has been an AB member >> >>-Matt >Could we shorten that to NNNN? IMHO it would be a great addition to the lexicon acronyms for chat. > >Matt, has this been posted elsewhere? From celticbear3 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 24 16:14:53 2007 From: celticbear3 at yahoo.com (Robin Heise) Date: Fri Aug 24 16:15:20 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Mandatory Student Waiver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <603690.52172.qm@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Kelly, I believe that the Ohio Board of Regents required the administration to have students sign this form. I don't believe that the administration came up with this on their own. Robin --- Kelly O'Keefe wrote: > Yesterday was the first day of freshman orientation, > and in Main Building, > with the refreshments and check-in procedures, there > were forms that the > Orientation hosts were told were mandatory for all > students to sign and > date. > > Here's what the forms say, retyped by yours truly: > > Student Acknowledgment of Suspension of Operations > of Antioch College > > I, ______________, hereby acknowledge the following: > > 1. I am aware it has been determined that Antioch > college, the > undergraduate residential campus of Antioch > University located in Yellow > Springs, Ohio, will suspend operations after the > 2007-2008 academic year. > > 2. I have received and read a copy of the document > titled "Plan for > Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch college > and Transfew of > Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education." > Based upon this > document, I understand that with assistance and > approval from my academic > adviser and the Registrar Office I will be > responsible for development of > Degree Plan in which I will specify conditions under > which "I may be able" > or "I may be unable" to complete the requirements to > relieve a degree from > Antioch college prior tot he end of calendar year > 2008. I further > understand that the "Plan for Completion of Degrees > by Students of Antioch > College prior tot he end of calendar year 2008. I > further understand that > the "Plan for Completion of Degrees by Students of > Antioch College and > Transfer Students to Other Institutions of Higher > Education" referred to > above may be modified in the future. > > 3. I understand that even though I have chosen to > enroll as a student as > Antioch college, and notwithstanding the statements > made in the "Plan for > Completion of Degrees by Students of Antioch college > and Transfer of > Students to Other Institutions of Higher Education," > Antioch University > has made no promises or guarantees that I will > complete the requirements > to receive credit from Antioch college or to receive > a degree from Antioch > college prior to the end of calendar year 2008. > > 4. I understand that this written Acknowledgment > supersedes any other > prior or written statement that may have been made > to me by any person on > behalf of Antioch University relating in any way to > my continued > enrollment or my ability to complete the > requirements to receive a degree > from Antioch College and that no future statements > that may be made will > establish any binding obligation of Antioch College > or Antioch University > without the express written consent of an > unauthorized representative of > Antioch University. > > ___________________ > student > > > ___________________ > date > > > Some students signed it, and some rejected it. I'm > not sure that I trust > the administration enough, at this point, to shove a > "mandatory" waiver in > front of students, especially fresh, 18 year olds > who's parents aren't > around. So many actions from the admin have had > major ulterior motives, > I'm wondering what you think about it. > > Kelly O'Keefe '08 > > _______________________________________________ > Alumni-chat mailing list > Alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu > http://w3.antioch.edu/mailman/listinfo/alumni-chat > Visit http://www.Antioch-College.edu today! > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 16:18:01 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 16:18:01 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: <603690.52172.qm@web32815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7c307081fb07704656a1c6aa39e98113@antiochians.org> Although Paragraph 4, apparently, wasn't from the Ohio Board of Regents. So there's still a question as to where that came from. >Hi Kelly, > >I believe that the Ohio Board of Regents required the >administration to have students sign this form. I >don't believe that the administration came up with >this on their own. > >Robin ____________________________________________________________________________________ From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 16:19:58 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 16:19:58 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7a4a95b1602a97a39f174e17142cc032@www.antiochians.org> >>0 1972-1982 >What does that tell ya? Damn, some folks know how to hold a grudge. I mean, there were only, what, 2,000 students in 1972, I guess it would be hard to find someone to ask to the tea party. :-/ > >>No Alan? >Goddess, no. I can think of at least a dozen of my cohort who are better qualified and more deserving. And more polite. > >Alan '92 Fuck polite From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 16:29:08 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Travis Sanford (travissanford@msn.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 16:29:09 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <7a4a95b1602a97a39f174e17142cc032@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: <182783ce4bcc03724abe198ba0e57f56@www.antiochians.org> >>>0 1972-1982 >>What does that tell ya? Damn, some folks know how to hold a grudge. I mean, there were only, what, 2,000 students in 1972, I guess it would be hard to find someone to ask to the tea party. :-/ >> >>>No Alan? >>Goddess, no. I can think of at least a dozen of my cohort who are better qualified and more deserving. And more polite. >> >>Alan '92 >Fuck polite With respect to those invited, I think it somewhat clear that the invitees can be relied upon to maintain a... non-agressive stance. Thats not to say passive, but unlikely to call them stupid fucks for not looking through the charade of process the U has put on while the eliminate everyone of the three pillars of Antioch and then sit around and talk about the real tradition of Antioch is reinvention. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 16:30:18 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 16:30:17 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: <7a4a95b1602a97a39f174e17142cc032@www.antiochians.org> Message-ID: >>>0 1972-1982 >>What does that tell ya? Damn, some folks know how to hold a grudge. I mean, there were only, what, 2,000 students in 1972, I guess it would be hard to find someone to ask to the tea party. :-/ >> >>>No Alan? >>Goddess, no. I can think of at least a dozen of my cohort who are better qualified and more deserving. And more polite. >> >>Alan '92 >Fuck polite In this circumstance, I think diplomacy will work better. It would be very easy for Murdock/Zucker to paint us as the maniacs they imagine us to be if politeness isn't the order of the day /in this venue/. And easy to alienate allies unused to direct expressions of emotion. However, Monday morning, if there isn't at least a promise to reconsider the July, 2008 closing date, then I agree. I am hoping that our Alumni Board leadership see this as the university's last chance before the tea service is stowed gloves come off. Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 16:47:21 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ccary60 (ccary60@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 16:47:21 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2a05adeff2447a6876b715e285916143@antiochians.org> I keep thinking of the Saturday Night Live skit that spoofed Crossfire on 60 Minutes where the left and the right would debate an issue. Dan Ackroyde would turn toward the camera after Jane Curtain delivered her passionate 2 minute editorial and would calmly say "Jane, you ignorant slut." OK, I'm tired and it's almost 5 PM! Good luck all of you heading to Cinci - in Kentucky. >>>>0 1972-1982 >>>What does that tell ya? Damn, some folks know how to hold a grudge. I mean, there were only, what, 2,000 students in 1972, I guess it would be hard to find someone to ask to the tea party. :-/ >>> >>> >>>Goddess, no. I can think of at least a dozen of my cohort who are better qualified and more deserving. And more polite. >>> >>>Alan '92 >>Fuck polite >In this circumstance, I think diplomacy will work better. It would be very easy for Murdock/Zucker to paint us as the maniacs they imagine us to be if politeness isn't the order of the day /in this venue/. And easy to alienate allies unused to direct expressions of emotion. > >However, Monday morning, if there isn't at least a promise to reconsider the July, 2008 closing date, then I agree. I am hoping that our Alumni Board leadership see this as the university's last chance before the tea service is stowed, the gloves come off. > >Alan From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 16:51:16 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (ChristianF (christian.feuerstein@gmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 16:51:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8f17f0ab87e4fd47dc4ccd8e07f499f6@antiochians.org> >However, Monday morning, if there isn't at least a promise to reconsider the July, 2008 closing date, then I agree. I am hoping that our Alumni Board leadership see this as the university's last chance before the tea service is stowed, the gloves come off. > >Alan Unless we do a revival of Arsenic & Old Lace, with the tea service. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 24 17:06:34 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Fri Aug 24 17:18:05 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] one stakeholder Message-ID: A note from a stakeholder... Please everyone out there ....push for us in anyway that you can. Pray if you can or want to. Supernatural help also a plus... Call old friends and see if they can do something over the short and long haul. In case this takes awhile..and it may... A miracle would be great, a victory would be swell and even a partial or tentative breakthrough would be most welcome... I have been here for most of 41 years and know it to be a place where discovery of self and the world continuously happens....and can tell you stories about how great even last year's folks are. This year is only starting.... It has been my job and become my identity.....and pretty much of a thrill to see folks grow......and return later as amazing people... makes up for a less than stellar paycheck...it is a good community even when fractious....and that is what the folks at mastercard would say is priceless. Whether you are Art Dole, Gerry Bello, Pam Olsen, Thelma Seto Timothy Noble, Alan Meatloaf Benard or any one of 1,000's of you ..you know this is a special imperfect imperfect utopia.....if we were a clothing size...we'd be labelled "irregular". If we had been perfect all along we would have had nothing to fix....and we all should do what we can so we don't just wind up with nothing. Going looking for the cavalry.......... with 41 years of Antioch in my head who knows what will come out. Duffy might let all the smart folks do most of the tawkin' Alumni Board friends have told me that the calvary is coming. Come on. From duffy at antioch-college.edu Fri Aug 24 17:09:10 2007 From: duffy at antioch-college.edu (Steven Duffy) Date: Fri Aug 24 17:20:41 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] one stakeholder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: calvary, cavalry..good freudian slip LOL duffy From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 17:35:38 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (alanbenard (alanbenard@pobox.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 17:35:36 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Antioch College Financial Key Points. 2001-2004 Message-ID: http://lists.antiochians.org/pipermail/saveantioch_lists.antiochians.org/attachments/20070824/29c15525/attachment.pdf /Compiled by Laura Fathauer / *Budget cuts at the College directed by the Board: * ? 2001-2002 Financial Stabilization subcommittee of the Board of Trustees ? Budget Stabilization Task Force from the University Leadership Council * The Board has directly made decisions regarding finances and operations at the College * ? *In 2001-2002, the Board established the Ad Hoc Financial Stabilization sub-committee. * This Committee, working with the University CFO, made decisions that included: preventing the re-hiring of Admissions vacancies and the Director of Development vacancy, consolidation of administrative services including the loss of the College CFO position, and a restructuring of University budgetary practices. These changes were already decided by the time the on-campus College community heard of the need for budgetary cuts. Overall campus reaction was negative; at issue was the top-down decision making that ignored College traditions and faculty participation in budgetary decisions; also at issue was the long-term affects this plan would have on the College. While the Board listened to the concerns of the College community, they still proceeded with their plan. ? *In 2003-2004, the Board handed a mandate to the council of the University presidents to determine budget cuts at the College. * The Board mandated that the University Leadership Council (ULC, a committee of the University campus presidents, Chancellor, and College President) come up with recommendations to deal with the projected deficit at the College. ULC established the Budget Stabilization Task Force, led by Toni Murdock. While this round of cuts had some participation by College personnel, these budget cuts were not reviewed by nor approved by Adcil. *Impact on the College * ? *Budget cuts in FY04 affected resources and personnel available to implement the Renewal Curriculum * The ULC led budget cuts of that year included: Co-op stipends being cut, hiring freeze implemented on vacant tenure-track positions and open or soon-to-be open staff positions, Director of Multicultural Affairs search cancelled, 5 support staff positions eliminated, and 1 financial aid position eliminated. Overall the combined hiring freeze/reduction in staff resulted in 15 fewer staff in FY 05, which included an overall reduction in admissions by 3 positions. Visiting faculty were required to teach some of the Learning Communities in the first year of the Renewal curriculum; their departure meant those courses could not be taught again. Also of concern was the lack of resources available to continue the traditional curriculum for returning students. ? *Board and University budgeting and administrative practices since 2001 run counter to the College's tradition of shared governance and standard AAUP practices * The budget cuts decided upon by the Board in 01-02 and ULC in 04-05 were implemented at the College with only superficial participation from Adcil or the College faculty. Adcil was not consulted at all when the ULC developed their plan in FY04. With the Renewal Commission, while faculty had a later role in the implementation of the curriculum, they were not included in the original decision to change the College's academic program. ? *Campus Reaction * In early 2002, the College community united in response to the top-down decision making of the Financial Stabilization plan of the Board. Adcil and Comcil joined and voted to send seven community members to the Board of Trustees meeting in February, with funding provided by Community Government. In 2004, students were affected even more by the cuts implemented by the ULC Budget Stabilization; the cut in co-op stipends affected students? ability to choose co-ops that were under-funded, international, or had a lengthy delay in the first pay. Students also felt that the suspension of the search for a Director of Multicultural Affairs reflected a lack of institutional commitment to diversity, and occurred at a time when issues of diversity ware already at the forefront of student life. *The State of the College?s Finances * ? *The University has set and managed the College?s budget since 2002 * The College lost its CFO with the consolidation portion of the 01-02 Financial Stabilization plan. The University has fully been in charge of College budgeting since then. In February 2004, reaction to the current budget deficit and the determination of budget cuts by ULC prompted the faculty to organize an emergency faculty meeting. The faculty determined their #1 priority was hiring a College CFO, and #2 was assessing the effects of consolidation. Even President Straumanis stated, ?We have felt that consolidation of all business services did not give the kind and degree of attention to the college budget that it needs.? ? *A clear picture of the true financial state of the College has been unavailable since 2001-2002 * Since 2001, the University CFO has been responsible for providing College financial and budgetary information. Prior to 2001, depreciation was offset by gains in the endowment. Starting in FY 03, the endowment posted positive gains; however since the Financial Stabilization plan of the Board in 2001, specific information regarding the gains on the endowment has not been made available. Endowment performance is now kept entirely separate from operating performance, and the College does not directly benefit from gains posted on the Endowment. Since Financial Stabilization, the College is allowed an annual "approved deficit." In some years the College went over the ?approved deficit,? comments seem to indicate that the additional ?deficit? was managed by only partially funding depreciation. Without knowing the exact amounts of gains posted by the University, we do not know how much of a "deficit" the College actually runs. ? *2000/2001: The University ran a $1.5 million deficit. * Sources of the College portion of the deficit include: on the expense side, a rapid rise in the cost of fuel, and on the revenue side, falling short of Lead Gifts by $350,000 (due in part to the loss of the lead development officer at the college). The poor performance of the stock market, reflected in a 2% return rate on the Endowment, may have contributed to the University portion of the deficit, as the University booked depreciation at least partially against gains on the endowment. However, from 1998-2000, the College had a balanced accrual budget. ? *2001/2002: In October, 1.4 million dollars in new expenses is added to the College's budget by the BoT. * Following the deficit of FY01, the Board adjusted their internal reports to show the depreciation at each campus within the financial statements of each campus, instead of at the University level. In October 01, this change was implemented in actual University budgetary practices. This shifted depreciation from being a "paper" cost to being a fully funded expense (in other words, real revenue had to be generated to fund depreciation). At the College, this meant that $1.4 million in new expenses were added to the operating budget, representing a mid-year 10% increase in expenditures. Depreciation has remained budgeted as a fully-funded expense since FY02; however it was only partially funded in years the College ran an ?unapproved deficit? ? *2001/2002: Almost a million dollars in revenue is removed from the College's budget * Early on in budgeting for 2001-2002, the College had a "Lead Gift" line in its budget initially set at $600k reflected funding for the Capital Campaign, with the source being Board and other contributions. The University CFO increased this revenue line by $959k in Spring 01, in conjunction with University requested changes that increased expenses by the same amount. A few months later, this revenue line was identified as a 'risk' to the University. In the Board's Financial Stabilization, this revenue line was removed and Capital Campaign costs were budgeted separately; however the loss of this line still represented a loss of almost $1 million in revenue to the College's budget. This loss of $1 million revenue occurred in the same FY as the increase of expenses by $1.5 due to fully-funding depreciation. ? *2001/2002: The University ended FY 01-02 with $2.9 million in Deficits, caused primarily by the losses of the endowment on the stock market. * Between June 01 and June 02, the Endowment had a -4.35% return rate. ? *2003/2004: Deficits at the College were attributed to a Board-approved plan to increase student aid * In February 2002, the Board approved a financial aid plan to fund 100% of student aid need, instead of the College?s average of ~80% of need. The costs of the plan were included in the presentation, and approved by the Board as well. In 2004, both University CFO Glen Watts and President Joan Straumanis linked the budget deficits that year to the 2002 financial aid plan that the Board approved. ? *Since 2001, Tuition revenue has declined commensurate with Enrollment declines. * In FY02, Net tuition revenue was $9,586,000. Enrollment was 719 FTE. In FY 07, projected net tuition is $5,936,000. Enrollment was 510 FTE. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 17:38:14 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Gerry Bello (gerrybello@hotmail.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 17:38:16 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] stakeholders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <407b07b7810527d94c696bacce88d935@www.antiochians.org> >>>>0 1972-1982 >>>What does that tell ya? Damn, some folks know how to hold a grudge. I mean, there were only, what, 2,000 students in 1972, I guess it would be hard to find someone to ask to the tea party. :-/ >>> >>> >>>Goddess, no. I can think of at least a dozen of my cohort who are better qualified and more deserving. And more polite. >>> >>>Alan '92 >>Fuck polite >In this circumstance, I think diplomacy will work better. It would be very easy for Murdock/Zucker to paint us as the maniacs they imagine us to be if politeness isn't the order of the day /in this venue/. And easy to alienate allies unused to direct expressions of emotion. > >However, Monday morning, if there isn't at least a promise to reconsider the July, 2008 closing date, then I agree. I am hoping that our Alumni Board leadership see this as the university's last chance before the tea service is stowed, the gloves come off. > >Alan The Gloves should never come off... Hand wrapps and four ounce gloves protect your hands not the opponents head. That being said.... monday morning my leash is off. Now... I might be playing in the grass... or filimg cujo 2 ... thats up to toni and art From jdavid at coldren.net Fri Aug 24 17:39:25 2007 From: jdavid at coldren.net (J. David Coldren) Date: Fri Aug 24 17:40:59 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [Why are we always poor? In-Reply-To: <207259.52921.qm@web63906.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <8b0a1098ffa833b09f08be2d514b1b53@www.antiochians.org> <207259.52921.qm@web63906.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <015e01c7e697$3e128600$ba379200$@net> Laura, I want to once again thank you for making the financial history of the past decade a much clearer. But I must comment on one of your statements that I have excerpted from your message (below). I don't think Federalism died. I don't think anything like true American Federalism ever existed for the University. For federalism to work, you need strong, independent entities that get together and establish a national or international government with limited powers to achieve collectively what the individual entities could not achieve independently. The important idea is that the independent entities retain many powers of self-government with their own rule-making authority, financial authority (and responsibility), administrative authority, and their own constituencies. Now, I'm one of the Neanderthals (on this chat list) who believe in the University system, as originally projected at least. I agree with others who have noted that small, private liberal arts colleges have to be exceptionally well endowed or they will fail. This was understood as far back as the late 1960's. But the idea was that the satellite learning environments were supposed to enrich the opportunities for Antioch College students, reach underserved students and be fairly easy to start up and---if they didn't find their footing---fairly easy to close. One of the code phrases was "disposable campus." That is, there was no need to assemble large capital for buildings and permanent faculty until the experimental phase of the satellite was deemed successful. Parenthetically, the no capital requirement led, in my opinion, to the no tenure policy. A tenured position may be budgeted annually as an operational expense, but the decision to create a tenured position is a capital expense because it commits the hiring authority to future expenses not now in hand. The hiring authority is, in essence, making a bet that they can raise enough money in the future to pay the salaries and benefits of a tenured position to whomever occupies that position. That is precisely the reason many higher education institutions seek endowed chairs for their most expensive positions. This is NOT an argument for a no tenure policy at the College. It is an argument for more endowment; specifically more endowed chairs and programs. Getting back on topic, my judgment is that the Antioch enterprise needs something like the University structure to (1) protect the Antioch brand and uphold its values globally; (2) coordinate activities between and amongst the independent units; (3) provide a vigorous marketing and public relations presence for all institutions and the University as a whole; (4) educate and recruit persons of wealth to join the various Boards or the University Board; and (5) set policies to be followed by all the independent units with regard to the legal and financial laws and regulations that govern a far-flung enterprise like Antioch. That leaves each unit with its own Board of Trustees, President, and Administration with all the powers and authorities not vested by the units themselves in the University. (The key power, in my view, is the absolute power to grant the use of the Antioch "brand" and to withdraw it for cause.) I haven't followed what transpired at Antioch when it morphed into the present University structure. I agree with the critics that the present structure is dysfunctional. I don't, however, believe there was some malevolent plot by the Trustees to kill the College and pick the skeleton clean. I believe that the University Trustees have the opportunity--and will take it--to help Antioch College in Yellow Springs arise like the Phoenix fully prepared and endowed for the 21st Century with a national and international University structure that derives its powers from the independent units and follows the real federalism theory more closely. J. David Coldren '65 -----Original Message----- From: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu [mailto:alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu] On Behalf Of Laura Fathauer Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 11:40 AM To: Alumni Chat List; saveantioch@lists.antiochians.org Subject: [Alumni-chat] Re: [Why are we always poor? In 2001, Federalism died. The Board and the University CFO started making changes to the operations of the College. Since the removal of the College CFO in 2/2002, the University Administration controls the entire financial picture, both in what is presented to the Board, and what is provided to the College. From alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org Fri Aug 24 18:16:56 2007 From: alumni-chat_forum at antiochians.org (Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)) Date: Fri Aug 24 18:16:56 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] one stakeholder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm not up for online gambling like Gerry today but my prediction is that the BOT's show tomorrow will strongly promote an atmosphere of great hope and lead participants to believe that there is true consideration for reversing the decision to close Antioch College. And I believe it would be a good strategic tactic of the BOT in order to divert energy of the efforts to save our school, and waste valuable time of those of us who are opposed to the closure. Jane Slater Class of '80 From gerrybello at hotmail.com Fri Aug 24 18:47:44 2007 From: gerrybello at hotmail.com (Gerry Bello) Date: Fri Aug 24 18:48:15 2007 Subject: [Alumni-chat] one stakeholder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jane, I dont gamble. ever. gambling is a tax on people who refuse to study math. I bet people on things I already know. then I take thier money. ----G "We are going to inherit the earth . There is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie may blast and burn its own world before it leaves the stage of history but we are not afraid of ruins. We who ploughed the prairies and built the cities can build again, only better next time. We carry a new world, here in our hearts. That world is growing this minute." ----Durruti >From: "Jane Slater (imabused@aol.com)" >Reply-To: Alumni Chat List >To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Subject: Re: [Alumni-chat] one stakeholder >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:16:56 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu ([199.218.254.156]) by >bay0-mc3-f23.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Fri, >24 Aug 2007 15:16:35 -0700 >Received: from w3.antioch.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1])by w3.antioch.edu >(Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA066135B1A;Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:16:57 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from thunder.svaha.org (thunder.svaha.org [70.85.195.2])by >w3.antioch.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C796135AF7for >; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:16:53 -0400 (EDT) >Received: from [70.85.195.2] (helo=www.antiochians.org)by thunder.svaha.org >with esmtpa (Exim 4.66)(envelope-from >)id 1IOhSa-0003ai-Gffor >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu; Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:16:56 -0500 >X-Message-Delivery: Vj0zLjQuMDt1cz0wO2k9MDtsPTA7YT0w >X-Message-Info: >m0MZ22IVDAWK2VyguY8R5eCduM9KuLNwb2S5OfYUvik/9Nh8JOyjC2TH0t3J8zcPPlIXM7cCH1J68yGMYaGpYA== >X-Original-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >Delivered-To: alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailer: PHPMailer [version 1.73] >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,please include it with >any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - thunder.svaha.org >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - w3.antioch.edu >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - antiochians.org >X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: >alumni-chat@w3.antioch.edu >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Alumni Chat List >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Errors-To: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >Return-Path: alumni-chat-bounces@w3.antioch.edu >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2007 22:16:35.0